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October 7th, 2006 at 19:31:02  From: Fallaci Admirer
Takes an army to change Pakistan
It takes an army to change Pakistan. Our army is in Iraq getting itself shot for nothing. Iran is in the way. Going through Iran on the way to Pakistan is the fastest and best route to get there. Also by the time we subdue Iran, Pakistan may get the message.
October 7th, 2006 at 19:57:14  From: piltdown
Fuck you, chickenhawk. You keep advocating this war, but you yourself have admitted that you're scared to, because you might get hurt. Fuck you. Besides, Bill Frist himself said that we can't win this fight, and that the Taliban should have a seat at Pakistans governmental table. Hmmm. So are you a cut and run, chickenshit chickenhawk republican? Or are you going to back up your fucking mouth and enlist? You're so quick to have other people die to support YOUR causes, but you won't lift a finger to do it yourself. You're a true Republiscum, asshole. Yes, Iraq was a huge mistake, we never, ever should have gone there. We should have dealt with the Taliban long ago, and done it properly. But NOOOOO! Saddam killed 200 Kurds (with weapons WE SOLD HIM). What we need to do is pull out of the middle east entirely, and let the Arabs kill the Arabs. It's none of our concern. NONE. We can get oil elsewhere, it's not like the ME is the ONLY place with it. But then, we don't talk to democratically elected leaders like Chavez, we're in bed with the House of Saud. We'd rather deal with dictators than presidents. Again, Fallacy Beleiver. If you keep advocating killing OTHER KIDS to do YOUR FUCKING JOB, I'm going to call you on it EVERY DAMN TIME. You are a chickenshit. Absolute chickenshit. I have less than zero respect for you. What are you, some ex-Paki? You sure seem to have sand in your vagina about them. I hear nothing but "KILL PAKISTAN! KILL IRAN! No I won't serve! I might get hurt! Send them instead!". Fucking coward. Absolute, chickenshit, less than respectable coward. Fuck you.
October 7th, 2006 at 20:43:00  From: piltdown
sorry, Frist thinks we should let Taliban have seat in Afghanistan, my bad. Still what happened to "stay the course. we don't negotiate with terr'ists". Oh yeah. Cut and run. A lesson well-learned from Saint Ronnie Reagan (criminal). Again, Fallacy Beleiver. Enlist or shut the fuck up.
October 7th, 2006 at 20:50:29  From: Gandhi
Since NATO is dominated by the buscist neocons
any of their reports need to be viewed very coutiously. Wouldn't it be a surprise if no Pakistani were supporting the Taliban. After all you have Pashtuns on both sides of the border. But to state that Pakistan's Interservices Intelligence (ISI) is involved is clearly speculation. Maybe, maybe not! Should the Pakistani Pashtun just watch while the crusaders kill their cousins? I know, the buscists expect them not just to watch but to aid the killing. Why? The Pashtun (on both sides of the border) hate the arrogant crusaders who disrespect their customs, who drink in public and have porn in their quarters. Muslims should fight for that against their belief? Very unlikely. US troops are unfit to solve the problems of the region, they makes it only worse. And now they are pulling NATO into the conflict. Now NATO troops will not be seen as those who help rebuild Afghanistan, they will be seen as those who help the crusaders. After Iraq Bush has managed to turn Afghanistan into another failure. Failure: a neocon trademark.
October 7th, 2006 at 20:53:16  From: me
God damn George Bush.
October 7th, 2006 at 21:05:28  From: Scott 1
Israel is the most destabilizing force in the Middle East. The creation of Israel has fomented so much distrust and hatred of the West by regional inhabitants, that it's time for regime change and abolishment of the Zionist movement in Israel. Over the past 70 years Israel has bled the West of hundreds of billions dollars, amassed a secret nuclear arsenal that if used recklessly could threaten the security the entire world. We need to pull the plug on this monster created 70 years ago by the UN.
October 7th, 2006 at 21:13:56  From: Fallaci Admirer
Scott l
At the end of another thread, you said that Iran like Russia would fight us through proxies and that getting nukes doesn't mean we won't have conflict with them. The point of invading Iran is to fight them when we can defeat them now with low casualties. We decided not to fight Russia in 1945, and lost 50k+ in Korea and Vietnam each. Battle phase deaths in Iraq were 200, occupation deaths are 70. So if we leave Iraq and invade Iran we can avoid greater deaths later.
October 7th, 2006 at 21:15:42  From: Fallaci Admirer
reply to Piltdown
"We should have dealt with the Taliban long ago, and done it properly." They are still a threat as is Pakistan. The levels of deaths we have in battle now are very low compared to wars past. When they catch up with us in technology this will pass. We need to defeat them now when its very low. This won't last forever.
October 7th, 2006 at 21:19:32  From: Fallaci Admirer
reply to Gandhi
"But to state that Pakistan's Interservices Intelligence (ISI) is involved is clearly speculation." Frontline went to Pakistan and filmed the Taliban in the tribal regions. They have killed over 100 tribal elders. The head of NATO in Afghanistan is a Brit. The Brits are facing up to the reality of Pakistan because of Pakistan's role in terrorism there and their much greater links and respect for India, something you, Gandhi, should appreciate. The Seymour Hersh New Yorker article on Kunduz airlift says that India's RAW (their intel) monitored it. This was the Nov 2001 airlift of Pakistan generals and adviers to the Taliban out of the Afghan city of Kunduz. They were fighting us even after 9-11. Saudis give them money to fund the Taliban and they skim a percentage. They have 38 billion in foreign debt.
October 7th, 2006 at 21:23:08  From: Dmaker
WELL THE RUSIANS TRY IT BEFORE AND THE INGLISH TOO AND OTHERS OF THE GROUP 8 WELL NOTHING IS WORKING WHEN ARE THIS MONGROLS ARE GOIN TO LEARN THAT I THIS FUKING MONEY MAKING MODEM OPERANDUM IS NOT WORKING GO HOME AND RE INVENT THE NEW ORDER LOOSERS
October 7th, 2006 at 21:24:58  From: Fallaci Admirer
Gandhi
Many of your points are well taken. But those emphasize why we need to denuke them and keep them from funding terrorism or immigrating here. We should realize Iraq was a failure. We also failed to set up a secular govt and abolish religious law and courts so that we were at least fighting for what we believe.
October 7th, 2006 at 21:28:03  From: Fallaci Admirer
Dmaker
You are right that fighting in Afghanistan is a losing proposition, like Iraq. We need to think in terms of raids instead of occupation. That is why we need to denuke Pakistan, and not waste our effort on Afghanistan that we can never win. Same with Iraq. Denuke Iran and Pakistan and leave.
October 7th, 2006 at 21:42:08  From: Terrible
"Pakistan aids Taliban"? No shit! Where have those commanders been the past 15 years?
October 7th, 2006 at 21:46:01  From: Terrible
Fallaci Admirer, you said "We also failed to set up a secular govt and abolish religious law and courts so that we were at least fighting for what we believe." That almost sounds as though you are unaware that before the bush administration illegally invaded that in Iraq there WAS a secular govt and NO religious law and courts. You just waking up?
October 7th, 2006 at 21:48:40  From: Dmaker
FALLACI ADMIRERER
DO YOU THINK THIS COUNTRY'S WILL TAKE IT AND SHUT UP???????????????
October 7th, 2006 at 21:50:19  From: Dmaker
FALLACI ADMIRERER
DO YOU THINK THIS COUNTRY'S WILL TAKE IT AND SHUT UP???????????????
October 7th, 2006 at 21:53:07  From: Terrible
What doesn't seem to be understood by some commenters here is that the Taliban was set up by the Pak intellegence services for the CIA back around the time that people who say "we should have taken care of them long ago" are talking about. IE: those who say we should have taken care of the Taliban a long time ago are basicly saying the Church Investigations and the reforms that resulted from that didn't go anywhere near far enough and that Reagan and his trashy VP should have bombed Langley.
October 7th, 2006 at 22:00:12  From: Fallaci Admirer
Terrible
You are right, invading Iraq was a mistake. It was a Bush, PNAC obsession. When we were attacked on 9-11, they should have reoriented to Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and UAE. If they had done that, we might have gotten Iran to give up its nukes, or we could blow them over quickly like we did Iraq and can now.
October 7th, 2006 at 22:01:53  From: Fallaci Admirer
Dmaker
Not sure your point, but I think if Bush explains a real strategy to the American people they will support it. He can explain we had 200 battle phase deaths in Iraq and have 70 occupation deaths per month. So the logic is leave Iraq but denuke Iran while its easy. He can then say that lets us combine our armies together without spelling out the threate to Pakistan in public.
October 7th, 2006 at 22:09:54  From: piltdown
Again, Fallacy Beleiver. Put your money where your chickenshit chickenhawk mouth is. If you think we should be fighting, ENLIST! Oh no! 200 battle phase (god, you love that word) deaths and 70 a month. But you won't HELP! You sit and bitch, and advocate sending MORE people there to die for something you claim to beleive so much about. You advocate a military solution to this, well, become military, chickenshit. Quit advocating other people dying for YOUR cause. Enlist or shut up, chickenshit. And yes, they USED to have a secular government. Gee. What happened to that? You seem to be so up on your Paki/Iran history, why don't you tell us where these secular leaders have gone? Iran, Iraq, Pakistan.... Oh yeah, deposed and replaced by people who'd willingly screw their people for US government contracts. Funny how that works. You're advocating the OLD ways. Ways that we all agreed worked. But you're not going to return to the old ways by bombing them. You'll be making the problem worse. Every one of them we kill will give them reason to shout "SEE! WE WERE RIGHT!". So shut your mouth about military intervention, unless YOU FUCKING ENLIST. Coward. Chickenhawk. Ignorant of history. Cherry picking your facts, so you can get your panties in a wad and scream "INVADE INVADE" but you won't join the fight. You are lower than snakeshit, you coward. And almost as intelligent, too.
October 7th, 2006 at 22:20:01  From: Fallaci Admirer
Piltdown
"Put your money where your mouth is." The point is we can lose a few lives now or more later. In Iraq we had 200 battle phase deaths and lose 70 deaths per month of occupation, which gains us nothing. We want to denuke Iran and Pakistan and stop the funding of terrorism by Saudi Arabia and UAE. So we should do exactly those things. That's what the neocons want to do, but they think they have to lie to the American people instead of just say, this is our plan. They can do each part of it one at a time so as not to tip off the others, but each part makes sense. If they tell the American people we are leaving Iraq so the 70 deaths per month are over, but we have to denuke Iran by ground invasion and point out this cost only 200 deaths in Iraq, they have a plan to sell.
October 7th, 2006 at 22:21:31  From: Fallaci Admirer
Piltdown, Secular rulers gone
We have focused our efforts in the wrong direction in Iraq and Afghanistan, you are right. If we invade Iran, we will be taking out theocratic rulers. All rulers in that part of the world are unpopular. If you depose theocratic rulers, the people will support non theocratic ones, adn vice versa. So depose the theocrats in Iran and Saudi Arabia.
October 7th, 2006 at 22:24:24  From: piltdown
Well presented response, Fallaci.
October 7th, 2006 at 22:34:34  From: Dmaker
WAIT A MINUTE THE USA OWNS THE SAUDIS AND THE PAKIS NOW HOW ARE WE GOIN TO DEPOSE OF THIS PEOPLE OR ARE YOU OF SOUND MAIND OR JUST PIPE DREAMEN THE EXAMPLE OF YOU THEORIC EUFORIC ESTATE IS NOT RATIONAL AND I PERSONALY QUESTION YOU RATIONALE???????
October 7th, 2006 at 22:34:39  From: Fallaci Admirer
Thank you
October 7th, 2006 at 22:35:02  From: Dmaker
FALLACI ADMIRERER
WAIT A MINUTE THE USA OWNS THE SAUDIS AND THE PAKIS NOW HOW ARE WE GOIN TO DEPOSE OF THIS PEOPLE OR ARE YOU OF SOUND MAIND OR JUST PIPE DREAMEN THE EXAMPLE OF YOU THEORIC EUFORIC ESTATE IS NOT RATIONAL AND I PERSONALY QUESTION YOU RATIONALE???????
October 7th, 2006 at 22:36:08  From: Fallaci Admirer
re Dmaker
We Pakistanis and Saudis agree to what we ask but then do what they want. They both keep supporting terrorism. So we have to create change.
October 7th, 2006 at 22:45:01  From: Fallaci Admirer
Rephrase
The Pakistanis and Saudis agree to what we ask but then do what they want.
October 7th, 2006 at 22:53:57  From: Dmaker
you mean what is good for the usa and conspirators???????? and for themselfs!!!
October 8th, 2006 at 02:22:30  From: Scott 1
Fallaci Admirer
Fallaci, the earlier thread referred to the relationship between Pakistan and India being similar to the cold war skirmishes between the US and USSR. Just as relations have normalized between ourselves, Russia, and China, the same if pursued, could occur with Iran. If your goal is to take Islamic law out of the regional governments, it won't happen through a democratic process. You will have to deprogram an entire generation, because the masses will desire Islamic rule. I would love to impose my moral views and expectations on the world, but unless mass enlightenment were to rapidly take place, or I could pull off some Stalin like purges, I will have to settle for the natural course of cultural evolution to get my wish. Why do continue to look at history as a collection of missed chances of military application, and not as missed opportunities of compromise and cooperation? Think of the lives, resources, and wasted years that could have been saved if less confrontational paths had been taken.
October 8th, 2006 at 08:09:38  From: Terrible
Fallaci Admirer what makes your arguments sound rather silly is that Iran doesn't have any nukes. Are you possibly confusing Iran with Israel or India?
October 8th, 2006 at 08:19:24  From: Fallacie Admirer
Terrible
Since Iran has no nukes, this is the time to keep them from getting them. North Korea is a problem as is Pakistan because they have nukes and spread missile and nuclear technology.
October 8th, 2006 at 08:24:36  From: Fallaci Admirer
reply to Scott l
"I will have to settle for the natural course of cultural evolution to get my wish. " So in the meantime, we need to contain the violence that may come towards us. As you point out, their masses are programmed with extreme views towards us that include what we call suicide bombing, but which they call maryrdom. Until that view changes, we need to keep nukes out of their hands. How long is this? Arabia attacked the West in 633 AD. Its now 2006. The Middle East and Pakistan were more Western in the 1960's than now. Thus the evolution has been towards extremism. Iran, UAE, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan are all funding or supporting that movement. Changing the governments can stop that direction. They can't start getting better until we stop their governments and rich sheiks from making it worse. Denuke them in the meantime.
October 8th, 2006 at 08:26:54  From: Fallaci Admirer
Dmaker
FA: The Pakistanis and Saudis agree to what we ask but then do what they want. "you mean what is good for the usa and conspirators???????? and for themselfs!!!" Its what we ask them to do and then they don't do. We ask them to stop supporting terrorism and in reference to Scott l's comments, to stop teaching hate of the West in their schools. Saudi textbooks have such ideas in them, and they spread those textbooks in other lands, even in the US and Europe.
October 8th, 2006 at 08:27:35  From: Fallaci Admirer
Dmaker
FA: The Pakistanis and Saudis agree to what we ask but then do what they want. "you mean what is good for the usa and conspirators???????? and for themselfs!!!" Its what we ask them to do and then they don't do. We ask them to stop supporting terrorism and in reference to Scott l's comments, to stop teaching hate of the West in their schools. Saudi textbooks have such ideas in them, and they spread those textbooks in other lands, even in the US and Europe.
October 8th, 2006 at 08:51:10  From: Baz
So theocratic governments ought to include the 'Jewish State' or not? #### The Zionists have been occupying the Palestinians' lands, alongside their occupation of our media, Congress, Senate and parts of the WH. Not satisfied with all these occupations, the Zionist Settlers have moved to occupy the cyberspace too, including the raw boards that has drawn the attention of one of these vermin, constantly urging more wars, and more mayhem to aid the Zionist agenda for securing greater acreages of stolen lands for that shitty little strip of land put in place by Balfour to protect his oil shares, and called it a 'loyal little ulster in the middle of the Arab lands' Ulster referring to the northern Ireland and the years of fighting and killing that has been going on there. ###### This cybersettler argues for toppling the theocratic states but means the Muslims ones, this cybersettler argues for more wars, on Muslims of course, this cybersettler argues for greater instability, on Muslim, and Christian countries of course. All the while this aggressive little turd does what other settlers in isreal do, constantly whining on about the greater objective, all the while killing the other 'subhuman' (every none Jew). #### Piltdown gets on his high horse to get this turd to enlist, and finds the answers are the same shit over and over again (although piltdown gives up and even compliments the vermin), Scott1 keeps on posting only to get to read the same shit over and over again in reply. When will you people realise these Zionist Vermin, are devoid of any capabilities of understanding anything other than their; fucked up, weird, mad, hateful, Supremacist world view? ##### Our occupied media have totally ignored the fall out, and backlash from the support of our occupied Capitol hill for these Vermin. the current boycotts of American goods, and services around the planet is never discussed. The damage caused by the Zionist Vermin's war on Lebanese was shown on the independent (UK News Paper) where on its front page had 3 flags of US, UK, isreal. On one side with heading 'for war' and the rest of the world nations' flags on the other side with the heading 'against the war'. ########## These Zionist Vermin are only interested in polluting the minds of the people around world with utter crap, in the hopes of carrying on with their genocidal creed, and genetic avarice for stealing land, and chattel and defrauding monies from the 'subhuman' (every none Jew). ##### Why do you waste your time even reading the unconscious drivel written by this cybersettler we have been lumbered with courtesy of 'internet megaphone'? ######## Have you people nothing better to do? Start assessing the damage that US support for isreal has inflicted on our economy, and our prestige and standing in the mid east and elsewhere. Ask whether can America afford the losses that have been the only reward for her unstinting support for isreal? #### You have a limited time for reading and writing, why do you waste it on these Vermin, do you think you can change the minds of these mad as hatter Zionist Supremacists?
October 8th, 2006 at 09:13:32  From: Fallaci Admirer
Baz
"Ask whether can America afford the losses that have been the only reward for her unstinting support for Isreal?" The attack on the West started in 633 and was against the Christian Eastern Roman Empire. The Pope quoted Manuel II from 1500 and indicated it was a brusque statement, and there have been death threats. In France, the police have had 2500 wounded in 2006 from going into the projects of immigrants. Women are raped routinely in Malvo Sweden for not wearing veils and the government covers it up. A car dealer in Ohio just got death threats for an ad about Discounts for Dhimmis. Its not limited to Isreal in space or time. It started in 633 and is almost global in scope. They attacked India in 1999 and said it was terrorists when it was Pakistan's army. When the invaders reached India they killed millions, some estimate tens of millions.
October 8th, 2006 at 09:37:07  From: 
Just who is this a big surprise too? this ain't new news.
October 8th, 2006 at 11:28:21  From: Dmaker
FALLACI ADMIRERER
YOU MEAN THAT THE WESTERN DOCTRINE IS THE ONE TO FOLLOW ??? AT ANY COST EVEN IF WE HAVE TO NUKE THE REST OF THE WORLD!!!!!
October 8th, 2006 at 11:56:54  From: Gandhi
Before we take on theocrats in other countries
we need to oust the Bush regime because they violate our constitution and try to impose their perverted form of religion on all of US.
October 8th, 2006 at 11:59:59  From: Fallaci Admirer
Reply Dmaker
The Western doctrine is not just a random doctrine that we have and others have one just as good. The West's doctrine reflects the wisdom of the ancient world around the Mediterranean basis. This includes the ancient Middle East. The Ancient Greek city states were based on democracy and on free state on the sea. They learned from each other, debated, and advanced science, law, freedom, etc. That was partly preserved by the Eastern Roman Empire. The attack in 633 was an attack on the ancient laws of Babylon and the Middle East for trade, commerce, interest, etc. The idea is to not have to nuke the rest of the world later by acting now when battle phase deaths in Iraq were 200 v. occupation deaths of 70 per month. We can invade Iran, leave Iraq, cut our total deaths and help Iraq by cutting of the aid to the rebels from Iran. Thus invading Iran dominates staying in Iraq.
October 8th, 2006 at 12:52:34  From: Gandhi
Fallaci Admirer
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061008/ap_on_re_as/afghanistan&printer=1;_ylt=AiA84QvADG2YAkO5dh8dBzT9xg8F;_ylu=X3oDMTA3MXN1bHE0BHNlYwN0bWE------------------------------------------------ The Brit in charge of NATO in Afghanistan seems to understand the situation, and this article reflects it much better than the Telegraph's piece.
October 8th, 2006 at 13:19:59  From: Tom3
Fascist Admirer Thinks We Should Invade Iran
Jeez, what a dumbass. We are barely holding our heads above water in Iraq. Iran is a lot bigger with a bigger army. Go back to your PNAC circle jerk, Fascist Admirer
October 8th, 2006 at 13:21:33  From: Tom3
Current Authorized Manpower Level, US Army: 480,000
Hell, the generals wanted 400,000 troops in Iraq. No way we could have done that. And we would need even more to subdue Iran. Fascist Admirer, you have your head up your ass if you think we can invade Iran with boots on the ground. The numbers don't add up.
October 8th, 2006 at 13:29:16  From: Fallaci Admirer
Gandhi
Good link and point. "Gen. David Richards, a British officer who commands NATO's 32,000 troops here, warned in an interview with The Associated Press that if life doesn't get better over the winter, most Afghans could switch sides." We need to take this to the source, Pakistan which is training them and Saudi Arabia and UAE that are funding them.
October 8th, 2006 at 13:29:48  From: Fallaci Admirer
Tom3
We need to increase our army size, good point Tom3.
October 8th, 2006 at 13:32:42  From: Tom3
Fascist Admirer, You Can Sign Up Then
Goddamn Yellow Repuke. Back on topic, this is not surprising, given that the ISI has been supporting the Taliban...AND OSAMA for years now. And Musharraf just signed a peace treaty with the Taliban, giving them control over Waziristan. The local Wazirs are probably not too happy about that. The ISI is all pro-Taliban and Musharraf can't get rid of them. The Pakistani Army is about half pro-Taliban. And they have nukes now.
October 8th, 2006 at 13:57:17  From: Fallaci Admirer
Tom3
So we agree on the diagnosis, that Pakistan is the source and that it seeks to harm the West. So the question is the remedy. Invading Iran lets us surround Pakistan. We can then exert pressure on it by sanctions and even blockade. We can bomb their nuclear processing plants to stop their producing more fuel. Nuclear weapons have to be touched up or they become inert. Without a source, they become inoperative.
October 8th, 2006 at 14:14:26  From: Gandhi
Afghanis' lives don't improve
Pakistan is not training the Taliban, the US is. The Taliban has been taught in Iraq how to fight the occupiers and they have the experience from years ago when the US funded their fight against the USSR. The quality of life of the Afghans is determined by the reconstruction of their country. Unfortunately the Bush gang is only good at destroying infrastructure, postive approaches to problems are not on their agenda. And because most of the money allocated to the reconstruction effort goes to neocon cronies the quality of life for Afghanis has not improved (and will not improve). The Taliban has done more (in the eyes of the average Afghan) for the population than the Westerners. Afghanistan is going the way of Iraq thanks to the crusaders.
October 8th, 2006 at 14:17:29  From: Tom3
Fascist Admirer, Don't Put Words In My Mouth
...you fucking asshole. I disagree with whatever you say, because you puke Karl Rove talking points and you support perverts in the GOP. Pakistan is a problem but invading it or Iran won't fix the problem. Don't say I agree with you, you fascist pervert. Go fuck yourself.
October 8th, 2006 at 14:20:54  From: Tom3
Afghanistan At A Tipping Point
NATO General there says Afghans will all go over to the Taliban side if there's no improvement in the next six months. So, tell me again Fascist Admirer, how are we going to invade Iran and Pakistan, when we are LOSING in Afghanistan and Iraq? How are we going to put boots on the ground when we don't have enough manpower to even do the job right in Iraq? Dumbass.
October 8th, 2006 at 14:37:12  From: Gandhi
Neocons need to take responsibility
for their miserable failures, it's getting old blaming everybody else.
October 8th, 2006 at 14:48:54  From: Fallaci Admirer
Tom3
"So, tell me again Fascist Admirer, how are we going to invade Iran and Pakistan, when we are LOSING in Afghanistan and Iraq?" We are fighting wars on the periphery in Iraq and Afghanistan. Iran, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are funding or supporting those wars. That is why we must take the war to the source. Our main army is in Iraq. That army can leave Iraq and knock over Iran. Battle phase deaths in Iraq were 200, occupation deaths are 70 per month. We take out Iran and that positions us to surround Pakistan. We then offer them to give up their nukes or face sanctions and blockade and we hit their reactors so they can't maintain their nukes, nukes decay over time and become inert.
October 8th, 2006 at 14:52:04  From: Fallacie Admirer
Gandhi
"Afghanis' lives don't improve". Thus showing our current strategy isn't working. Which is why going to the source can work. Defeating Iran will change perceptions in Pakistan of US capability. It also puts the army that defeats Iran on their border and unites the army in Iraq with the NATO army in Afghanistan. It gives direct supply from the sea through Iran to Afghanistan, so that we don't depend on Pakistan. They have leverage on us because we don't have a path from the sea to Afghanistan that doesn't go through them. That will change their leverage, which will change their behavior.
October 8th, 2006 at 15:04:47  From: Gandhi
Admitting that current strategy is not working
doesn't mean that new strategy (Blaming Iran, Syria, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia) is going to work. Iran is much better prepared for an aggression than Saddam's Iraq. Why should more Gls die for the neocon folly? Why should Iranians die for the neocon folly? If anybody shoould die it's the neocon warmongers. NATO is not in Afghanistan to aid the neocons. They are there to help the Afghanis. But , I guess, fascists would like NATO allies to withdraw their troops from Afghanistan because most of our allies don't support the Bush gang.
October 8th, 2006 at 15:11:21  From: Fallacie Admirer
Reply to Gandhi
NATO is in Afghanistan to protect the West. Pakistan is intentionally undermining it by training the Taliban and supporting them with funds from Saudi Arabia that they take a cut of. Iran is supporting international terrorism and developing nukes. Pakistan developed its nuke in May 98 and then attacked India in 99 and in effect has attacked us through the Tablian and al Qaeda in Aug 98 embassies, 2000 Cole, 2001 WTC and Pentagon. Saudis are funding this. We have to go to the two sources Pakistan and Saudi Arabia or we will lose. They will fund and support rebels against us in Afghanistan and Iraq forever. Iran is part of this combination and it sees that like Pakistan, once it gets nukes, it can go on the offensive. So we need to attack them now when battle phase deaths are 200 v. occupation deaths per month in Iraq are 70. Deaths in Iran may be higher than in Iraq for the battle phase, but we are bleeding in Iraq and Afghanistan while our main opponents sit back in Pakistan, Iran and Saudi Arabia without being touched.
October 8th, 2006 at 15:12:00  From: Tom3
Fascist Admirer = Chickenhawk ASshole
Your psychotic PNAC type war plans would get a lot of our kids killed...and a LOT more Iranian and Pakistani kids. You are a fucking chickenhawk and should go to Iraq right away and get your ass shot off. The world would be a better place without armchair chickenhawks like you getting our kids killed for nothing.
October 8th, 2006 at 15:14:12  From: Tom3
Most Americans Think Iraq War Was a Mistake
And Most Americans Think Chimpy Deliberately LIED To Us To Start The Iraq war. Latest Newsweek poll. Stick that up your ass, FondlingPages Admirer.
October 8th, 2006 at 15:14:27  From: Fallaci Admirer
To Tom3
Why do you want to let Pakistan and Saudi Arabia fund the deaths of Americans in Afghanistan and Iraq, and likely 9-11, the Cole and the embassy attacks? Why is your anger at the neocons but not at those who are the real source against us? Why do you want the Saudis to fund world wide terror and get away with it? Why let Pakistan fund the Taliban right now? 2 Pakistani generals were airlifted out of Kunduz in Nov 2001 according to Seymour Hersh. They have been fighting us the whole time. Doesn't that mean anything to you?
October 8th, 2006 at 15:15:01  From: Fallaci Admirer
To Tom3
Why do you want to let Pakistan and Saudi Arabia fund the deaths of Americans in Afghanistan and Iraq, and likely 9-11, the Cole and the embassy attacks? Why is your anger at the neocons but not at those who are the real source against us? Why do you want the Saudis to fund world wide terror and get away with it? Why let Pakistan fund the Taliban right now? 2 Pakistani generals were airlifted out of Kunduz in Nov 2001 according to Seymour Hersh. They have been fighting us the whole time. Doesn't that mean anything to you?
October 8th, 2006 at 15:42:49  From: The Fuckers
Understand This
We need a war but nobody will fight us, so we generated our own enemy in the form of the Taliban (through our ally Pakistan) and Bin Ladin (through our ally Saudi Arabia.) 911 was an inside job and I now suspect many if not all of the bombings prior to 911 where also inside jobs. The entire war on terror is fake. We are at war with ourselves, I suppose to justify taking over the Arab world. The dead and the money are real enough.
October 8th, 2006 at 15:53:44  From: google operation gladio
The Fuckers
http://mparent7777.livejournal.com/12510103.html http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0210-22.htm
October 8th, 2006 at 15:54:21  From: 
http://www.infowars.net/~officia/terrorfiles/gladio/blackliesoperationgladio.html
October 8th, 2006 at 16:21:13  From: Scott 1
Fallaci Admirer
"The Western doctrine is not just a random doctrine that we have and others have one just as good. The West's doctrine reflects the wisdom of the ancient world around the Mediterranean basis".****** Unfortunately along with the wisdom of the ancient Mediterranean societies, we also inherited their greed, barbarism, and misguided sense of righteousness. The History of the Mediterranean region is as bloody, violent, and repressive as any in the history of the world. If you're going to connect present day Muslim societies to historical behavior, then be consistent and apply the same standard to the West. Historically the West has shown a greater propensity for aggression and domination than the Muslim world. You can argue that the West allows more freedom to the individual, but the collective behavior of the West still contains the negative traits of it's past, no selective interpretation on your part can change that fact. The constant manipulation and exploitation of the people and territories of the Middle East by the West may have something to do with the increase in extremism over the last half century, don't you think?
October 8th, 2006 at 16:37:29  From: Fallaci Admirer
Scott l
First, over the last half century they expropriated our oil contracts, leases, and more. "Historically the West has shown a greater propensity for aggression and domination than the Muslim world. " The West has been subject to barbarian invasions from the East for millenia. The current immigration based version is the same as in millenia past. They attacked us in 1993 at WTC. That was intended to kill 250,000 people. They attacked us again and again. We took until 2001 to notice they were really at war with us. The Saudis are funding the Taliban against us now with Pakistan. Iran is funding terrorism like Hezbollah. You seem to be proposing surrender as the solution. The extremism came from the Muslim Brotherhood. Qutb came to America around 1950, had a bad reaction, and pushed modern extremism. Khomeini was pushing it in 1942. The Ottoman Empire was against us in WWI as part of the onslaught that started in 633 against the West. But your conclusion Scott is that we should surrender?
October 8th, 2006 at 16:39:44  From: Gandhi
NATO is in Afghanistan to help the Afghanis
and to keep the trigger happy U.S. troops from turning it into another Iraq. That's why over 10000 U.S. troops have been placed under NATO-command (with a British general in charge). The civilized world is not willing to see the neocons murder more civilians and create another fiasco.
October 8th, 2006 at 16:53:11  From: Fallaci Admirer
Link on the relativism argument.
http://islamstrueface.blogspot.com/2005/07/ muslim-atrocities.html You can also look at jihadwatch.org for the latest atrocities and terrorism incidents.
October 8th, 2006 at 17:15:04  From: 
civilized world
History proves that Shuja shah did not last long, so will the Unocal czar Karazai not last long (read great game). Taliban were set in place immediately after the pipeline deal was signed by Bridas (Argentinian consortium) which spurred on the Unocal to carry-on negotiations with the various heads of Taliban inviting these to Sugar-Land Texas, up until 1998. ###### The Zionist you are wasting your time with is not of any use, other than spreading the lies that his masters have been spouting for the last six years. These incompetent bastards lost the game despite Yeltsin's tenure. Now the snake oil salesmen are selling even more wars, but Neo Nuremberg awaits these bastards to a man of them.
October 8th, 2006 at 17:19:20  From: 
What is the point no one will read this but hey
http://www.worldpress.org/specials/pp/pipeline_timeline.htm
October 8th, 2006 at 17:41:11  From: Scott 1
Fallaci Admirer
The West's biggest threats historically have not come from the outside. The West has been eating it's own and everyone else for thousands of years. WWII was the standard of barbarism set by the West that has not been equaled before or since. You are using the same logic about Muslims as Europeans applied to the Jews. If you erroneously buy into the notion that a group is bent on your subjugation, you react as the Nazis did in Germany. I don't acknowledge the Muslim, Jewish, or any other Western labeled boogieman you wish to believe in. It's only surrender if their is an actual enemy. Aggression by any group or individual needs to be dealt with in a proportional matter. We don't lash out at an entire group because of the actions of a few, and we don't disregard our own contribution to the appeal of groups like Al qaeda to frustrated Muslims.
October 8th, 2006 at 17:58:10  From: 
Scott 1
Are you kidding? ####### Jewish rabbi calls for extermination of all Palestinian males ####### http://www.imemc.org/content/view/21527/1/
October 8th, 2006 at 18:24:37  From: Scott 1
Fallaci/Falay Admirer?
A Jewish rabbi living in the West Bank has called on the Israeli government to use their troops to kill all Palestinian males more than 13 years old in a bid to end Palestinian presence on this earth. Extremist rabbi Yousef Falay, who dwells at the Yitzhar settlement on illegally seized Palestinian land in the northern part of the West Bank, wrote an article in a Zionist magazine under the title "Ways of War", in which he called for the killing of all Palestinian males refusing to flee their country, describing his idea as the practical way to ensure the non-existence of the Palestinian race.
October 8th, 2006 at 19:00:28  From: 
Scott 1
'To wage war with deception', now you are getting educated pal. These Vermin for years followed their genocidal plans without let or hindrance, and now they have infected the highest echelons of the US government, and are inducing the current war on Muslims which is effectively the war on the planet.
October 8th, 2006 at 19:15:52  From: Fallaci Admirer
West Bank: Buy in Buy Out
I propose Buy in or Buy out for the West Bank. Buy in is cut all outside aid, and aid creates rage, and instead have them spend their time at work to support themselves. Now they are paid to resist. Those who don't like buy in, can go for buy out, they get 750 dollars per year per person and the host country gets the same. Jordan, Syria, Egypt can be hosts. The money can come from the oil fields in Iraq and Iran.
October 8th, 2006 at 19:18:05  From: Fallaci Admirer
West and violence
It is true the West has had violence in its past, but it was attacked at WTC 93 and didn't really respond until 8 years later after WTC 01 and Pentagon attacks. So the West is peaceful and is being set upon by the non peaceful.
October 9th, 2006 at 01:52:05  From: Scott 1
Israel: Buy Out Move Out
We offer to move any Israeli citizen to a 9,000 square mile area in Wyoming that will be designated an independent Jewish state. The Israeli population finally acquires a secure homeland. A destabilizing nuclear arsenal is removed from the Middle East, and the world. The Arabs and Palestinians can stop blaming all of their problems on Israel and their supporters. A totally nonviolent, workable, fair and just solution to the biggest problem facing the Middle East for half a century. The world can then devote all the resources that would have been squandered on the former problem, and use it to better the lives of people in the region who might otherwise learn to hate us.
October 9th, 2006 at 05:07:28  From: altruist
hi
well my friends , ground realities are different than that of things being reported in news.No body from Pakistan is supporting Taliban , rather its the history of Afghans that they have never been subjugated by any body.We our selves are against talibans and its in Pakistan's interest that Afghanistan doesn't go in the hands of Taliban.NO BODY FROM PAKISTAN IS SUPPORTING TALIBAN.Its RUSSIA may be who wants to take revenge of her past from USA or iran , but not Pakistan
October 9th, 2006 at 07:25:31  From: 
no kidding?
well my friends , ground realities are different than that of things being reported in news ======= What reality has to do with a good story the nice foxnewsman has to say? ======= PS don't you go around shifting the blame on to everyone else, Pakistan started drinking soup with the devil and did not have a long spoon, so suffer and pay the penance.
October 9th, 2006 at 07:28:35  From: 
Scott 1
Darn good suggestion, when can it be started?
October 9th, 2006 at 07:48:46  From: Fallaci Admirer
re Buy Out Move Out
It has a nice ring to it Scott, so the question is which group to buy out and move out. Economically it applies better to the Palestinians. Per capita income of Israelis is 20k or more, while on the West Bank, Jordan, Egypt, its 2k or less per year. There are approximately 6mm Palestinians and Israelis. So the buyout plan makes more sense for the Palestinians. Once they are gone, the per capita income of Israelis will likely rise by 10 percent or more, and security costs will fall, so that this pays for the buy out move out of the Palestinians.
October 9th, 2006 at 08:20:13  From: 
Scott1
Darn good suggestion, when can it be started?
October 9th, 2006 at 08:46:35  From: Gandhi
There are approximately 6mm Palestinians and Israelis
6 mm? To measure Palestinians and Israelis in millimeters is really a unique way.
October 9th, 2006 at 09:03:37  From: 
unique way
you ain't seen nothin yet!
October 9th, 2006 at 09:09:34  From: 
Note the sacred six popping up again
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