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I see you’re about to monetarily support the restaurant industry. Much better than being a drunk and giving your money to John McCain’s wife.

BertHarvey said: “From my research, I haven’t found any long term physical debilities related to marijuana, whereas both alcohol and tobacco have a virtual laundry list of ailments associated with them from various cancers to organ failure.” While I have absolutely no problem with the legalization of marijuana, people should be aware of the potential consequences of frequent or long-term use of marijuana, whether legal or illegal in determining whether, how and how much marijuana they smoke. Contrary to what BertHarvey says, there is ample research showing the potential pulmonary problems associated with smoking marijuana and it is easily found on the web. To point to just a few studies/reports:

http://www.drugscience.org/Petition/C2B.html
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/short/318/6/347
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16414979
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11224724

I worked with Dr. Tashkin (probably the most renowned investigator of the pulmonary consequences of marijuana use) many years ago and he was/is a non-judgmental, honest researcher who was/is not doing anyone’s bidding in making his conclusions. As I said before, in pointing out the potential deleterious effects of marijuana, I am not saying it should not be legalized (personally, I think it should), or that it is a gateway drug (evidence does not support that conclusion) but that it is NOT correct to pretend that partaking of it, especially heavy and/or long term use, does not have potentially negative health consequences.

And that is the best way to debate :)

great links Steve, I’ve read a couple of those and absolutely agree with their findings. But, if i was reading them correctly they were looking at the effects of smoking marijuana, where most of the folks I know (i know, anecdotal) who have pulmonary issues use vaporizers. Hell, I have friends who have marijuana proscribed for vaporizer use specifically for bronchial and pulmonary issues.

Pot smokers shouldn't be able to drive at all and I don't want to smell it in public. If they smoke at home fine. It's not the same as alcohol, which doesn't lead to stronger drugs which pot can do.

You're not supposed to drink and drive either. A lot of people don't like the smell of cigars and cigarettes. What's your point?

Oh, and pot smoking does not lead to stronger drugs. “Reefer Madness” is a myth.

Fuck, i hit the 'like' button by accident.

Absolutely not, pot does not lead to harder drugs, that's a straight up lie and in fact Harry Anslinger himself said at first that “they don't go that direction,” and has been supported with mountains of evidence.

You'd be wrong. No clinical tests have shown that correlation. If you can find studies that say otherwise, post links.

I'd also be interested to see a comparison of known physically debilitating effects of marijuana usage versus alcohol usage, or tobacco usage. From my research, I haven't found any long term physical debilities related to marijuana, whereas both alcohol and tobacco have a virtual laundry list of ailments associated with them from various cancers to organ failure.

Very true on all accounts. Alcohol is the drug that makes you think “fuck it, I’ll do whatever!” … Marijuana is much more likely to be all you need… I know quite a lot of people who don’t drink as much because they prefer smoking marijuana… as marijuana is far less dangerous than alcohol – I think that’s a good thing.

wow – the corporatist media didn't report the truth – i'm shocked… shocked…

It’s really true. Alcohol has the ability to rip you up far worse than any of those drugs do.

I would stop at heroin and meth maybe… I think those two are probably worse than alcohol from my research of them but since I haven’t actually done them (I stay away from physically addictive drugs) I can’t say from personal experience. But meth does fucked up stuff to people… and heroin is really addictive and people seem to die from overdoses rather often.

But that’s the thing.. you don’t have to look far to find those real horror stories with those drugs… but with pot… coke… shrooms… you don’t see those horror stories. Why? Because those drugs aren’t really that dangerous. At all. Much less dangerous than alcohol.

yeah, I've never seen a drunk do coke before, among other things, after first getting drunk.
god, you're an idiot.

You're as wrong as can be. A drunk driver is a much greater danger than a stoned driver, the latter driving too slow and too carefully. And 99% of the people who've tried cocaine did it because they were drunk, not stoned.

fuck the msm. it time for legalization. it's way overdue. and time for boxer to go

Why am I not surprised the MSM is at it again, hammering away at the “evil weed” as they've done for the past 50 years. Like good little drones, stories with data that might support “change” are buried in favor of the preferred status quo of TBTB. Legalizing Pot could be the kick in the ass the California economy needs right about now!

And Alcohol Doesn't ??

EVERY . . . SINGLE . . . SCIENTIFIC . . . STUDY . . . on the planet concludes that marijuana is NOT a gateway drug. It does NOT lead to other drugs. Read a little Scientific American.

Also, in about 25 years of prosecution and defense work I never, ever saw a case of “driving while high”. As for DWI? Thousands.

The only way Pot might lead to anything else is due to the illegal way it's sold. The dealer might also sell something else; Pot's illegality is what creates any potential pathway. So it's in the public's best interest for it to be legal, further driving the other drugs away from mainstream.

Good thing your opinion has no value. We'd prefer if you didn't come out of your house ever, you stink!

I used pot to quit drinking. Didn't become addicted to pot.

I agree lets legalize the weed and stop the beheadings in mexico. lets tax the weed. i still cant believe they sent tommy chong to the pen for glass bong manufacturing. we owe that man a national apology..

yeh rigft, alchohol just leads to head-ons on the freeway and shoot-outs in parking lots.
weed abuse leads to big mac attacks …

hey dude.. that makes no sense. you think folk that do coke don't drink? thats ridiculous, coke and alchohol are like fred astaire and ginger rogers. only a nerd that never bent his head over a line of peruvian flake would make such an ignorant comment. get some living done then come back and peck away..

1stly let me say both my parents never should have been parents. I had a virtual dead-beat father and a hick mother from the farms who knew nothing and neither of them told me anything about drugs.

I had my first beers when i was 13 and we went on a cruise in the Caribbean. I remember Nancy Reagan appearing on “Diff'rent Strokes” preaching “just say 'no'!”

Then I got to college. the first time someone passed me a bong I said “I don't touch that shit.” And I caught abuse. Then a few months later i gave in, and i found that 'weed' was the best thing ever. I saw a straight A, AP class kid in high school who graduated 73rd out of 435 without even trying. I cruised through high school, I thought I had it made.

Then at college I learned the truth, and i hateduncle sam for lying to me. Then I tried mushrooms. Then I tried coke. Nothing was nearly as bad as what alcohol did to me.

My lifetime.
PLEASE.

Look, as a child of the 60s and 70s, I smoked a lot of pot in my day. As for harder drugs, I tried coke once, in the 80s, immediately after I broke my foot. I was 75 miles from the nearest emergency room, it did indeed help with the pain but I didn't and wouldn't do it again. Pot worked well at dealing with the pain after I saw a doctor and I felt more in control. I never even took the percodan the doctor prescribed. Marijuana should be legal, taxed and treated like alcohol.

Doesn't anyone remember the trouble Prohibition caused in the late 20s and early 30s? It's the exact same thing.

i used good pot to quit bad pot. nothing worse than an ounce of mexican shake with a handful of seeds thrown in. pot is a sleeper drug not a gateway drug. daves not here.

Well i believe since alcohol is worse than pot, why not legalize it? Less people drinking alcohol is a good positive no one has mentioned.

Unless we legalize meth, cocaine, and heroin too, the beheadings in Mexico will continue.

I went out with a stripper for a time, and there was nothing better than her showing up at my place with free drugs people gave her.

And nothing in the world is as dangerous as alcohol; no other drug, legal or not, turns people into stumbling, belligerent, combative morons like alcohol.

ahhh.. pot smokers smell like pizza hut and big macs bro. sometimes they smell like mcdonalds french fries or taco bell. could be worse, drunks smell like hit & run accidents and bad country music..

If we legalize weed a MASS AWAKENING will occur in this country within less than a year, mark my words.. So if it happens, the tide is turning… I doubt it will tho, but it's nice to hold out hope.

wrong compadre, meth is primarily being produced in the mid-south. coke is yesterday and heroin is still coming from afghanistan. weed is the devils tongue in mexico cause it's bringing 300-700 an ounce when it should be 30-40 an ounce. weed is the cheapest commodity to produce of the group and the cheapest to export. get your facts aligned with the wide rice papers little bro..peace

Have you ever used coke?? Heroin? I have. Nothing is more dangerous than alcohol.

Check out http://suburra.com

Coke and caffeine, molecularly, are very similar. Coca Cola (of course) once used cocaine in their formula. after the US gov gave them sh*t over it…they switched to caffeine.

As noted above at suburra.com, if you order the book (it's cheap, the 3rd edition just came out, you can get free shipping (or at least I did) you can get the book for $17) you can read about how nowadays (and I'm sure you'll agree) you can get those tiny bottles of concentrated caffeine at 7-11s/Circle-Ks/quick stop convenience stores.

I remember my father being addicted to percocet in the 80s an beating his wife.

When one is coked up, beer tastes like water.

Trust me, I know. Many parties at the frat house where I used coke I drank like a fish. In fact, the combination of coke and booze creates special metabolites in the liver that are more dangerous than either of them on their own.

Google is your friend. use it.

imo, that poll was for corporations to estimate viability of mass production and marketing. Just what cannabis doesn't need. Here's a question they will never ask in a corporate survey:
“Do you support decriminalization, that is, allow possession and growing of small amounts for personal use, while still forbidding the sale, advertising and distribution (except for medical reasons).” That's the key question…

sounds like you wouldn't mind smelling it in private eh amigo..:) thats why god gave us garages and basements. the only strong drug pot leads to is ketchup..

POT GROWERS! Don't be scared by legalization. All you need to do is create a simple trade mark (TM) and you are instantly in a similar class as wine and fine cigars. Ma fill in the blank's finest. Put it on a bumper sticker and give them away. You now have a trade mark.

i knew that poll was bullshit…i was surprised RS bought it…

POT GROWERS! Don't be scared by legalization. All you need to do is create a simple trade mark (TM) and you are instantly in a similar class as wine and fine cigars. Ma fill in the blank's finest. Put it on a bumper sticker and give them away. You now have a trade mark.

yeh and .. i forgot what i was gonna say..but hey man…how much for pepperoni, onions and green pepper on an extra large with garlic crust?

“Given that reality, we don't need to add another mind-altering substance that compromises people's five senses,” a spokesman reportedly said.

***

All five senses, now? And that sweeping comment would be based on exactly what set of facts?

i guess you never snuck next door and pulled up their plants right? that stuff sucked right? it was like smokin old shoelaces. naw, we need real legalization and pot farmers that know what their doing. i'm tired of singing to plants in the attic under dim grow lights. you know what i'm talkin about..i want my mtv..

$300-700 an ounce? For Mexican weed?

On what planet?

Those prices you're tossing around are indoor-grown hydroponic prices. Typically a WHOLE LOT more expensive than the stuff that's shipped into this country in the gas-tanks and spare tires of trucks crossing the border.

Your numbers are as bad as the D.A.R.E. propaganda.

My “gateway drugs” were cigarettes and beer.

I'm not surprised by the poll though. AP has been showing their biases quite a bit lately.

I don't know who you are talking to/dealing with but your latter price is what I pay for dirt weed, I've unloaded cars from Mexico and they just can't seem to keep the seeds from growing and to me, that's amateur hour. If I want the good stuff then I pay 250 or 260. Washington State is pretty liberal about it though. We'll be on board right after California makes the move. I want to see Big Pharma go under. Once people see how many illness whether made up or chronic Cannibus helps with, they'll be flocking to it in droves.

Come on out of the dark ages there marzi and read up on it. Make your own judgement as all I see/hear from your post is spewed talking points from some monkey on the telly. Please, research for yourself. ER nurses have even stated that they cannot count on one hand how many Cannibus ONLY accidents they've seen. It is also a great homeopathic help for many illnesses. Chrones, IBS, restless leg syndrome, most depressions, many anxiety disorders. Think about it. Besides, look at the bonus', we can use the stems and the stuff not used to make the strongest rope known, great clothes and better paper without having to import the stuff.

That's why it is DUI.

“Driving Under the Influence”

Not DWI – Driving While Intoxicated.

So true. If a dealer is selling pot, cocaine, and heroin, and the profit margin of pot is 10%, cocaine 40% and heroin 70%, guess which one he'll try to talk you into trying? He'll even give you a free sample, just so you can try it and see if you like it. Dealers NEVER give out free samples of pot.

Pot does not lead to harder drugs. And pot is safe to drive on. Ever hear of a pot related accident on the highways? No you haven’t because it is almost unheard of despite millions driving around high.

Legalize weed, tax the hell out of it and put all the money into education!

I remember my brother drinking himself to death at the ripe old age of 41.

and by the way … ah … remind me … OK, what the hell were we talking about?

I’d feel much safer on a road full of people high on pot rather then a road full of people high on caffeine.

Come November, people will only remember the original frame — that the majority of people are opposed to legalization — and not the truth. In this way, those who control the vote counting will be able to manipulate the results and few will suspect electoral fraud.

Jesus Christ this is insane! I am raging so hard right now. THAT REPORT RUINED MY 420 (for about 5 minutes)!! Bastards…

AP really should be called American Propaganda. They have been spreading B.S. since they started, always behind the creation of an alternate reality.

marzi, are you related to miriam alonzo? You certainly have that same arrogant tone that the Cuban TRAITORS have, you know, your friends who came to amerika to get
rich and dictate to the Gringos.

Alcohol doesn't lead to stronger drugs because THERE IS NO STRONGER DRUG.

DUMB-ASS!!!!

Right. You beat me to it.

Barbara Boxer is an idiot for opposing this. She could get a lot of young people excited about voting for her (and legalizing pot) by siding with it. Pot legalization is going to win this November – why doesn't she want to be taken on the ride?

I agree that alcohol is more dangerous than cocaine. I haven't used heroin so I can't speak on that one…

I'd agree with you on Boxer if it weren't for the fact that a Republican would take her place. We have to take it easy on these older politicians – they don't know how to deal with marijuana legalization. It's tough for them to realize the sea change that's happening. I'm sure they will come around eventually when they realize being pro legalization means more votes.

If I see you on the streets marzi, I’m gonna blow some sour diesel right in your face, ya tight ass.

Umm Marzi, are you just really sheltered? Out of touch? Trolling?

Marijuana is hardly a gateway drug. I've smoked a few times a month since I was 13 (now in my mid 30's). Somehow in that time I've managed to graduate from high school, college, get a masters, a J.D., buy a house etc.

What I have not done is develop some full blown drug problem because of it or “use stronger drugs”. I also know plenty of doctors, lawyers, teachers, professors, stoke brokers and plenty of other productive members of society who use marijuana on a regular basis will no ill effects.

But thanks for the D.A.R.E propaganda. It's amusing, if not a little depressing, that this type of ill informed nonsense allows something a wasteful as the “war on drugs” to continue.

What the hell? Pot smokers shouldn't be able to drive at all? What does that mean?

As far as alcohol not leading to stronger drugs: BS! Almost everyone drinks alcohol before they do other drugs. How can you claim that alcohol doesn't lead to other drugs and say that marijuana does? It doesn't make any sense.

Furthermore, alcohol is far more dangerous than marijuana.

I feel this is the best option to know people's view about any topic. By giving their view on any particular topic the idea of what to do is being cleared. People have actively participated when it comes to drug reform, and give review about it.
dofollow social bookmarking

Do you really think that we can't find a more progressive and less politically disingenuous a candidate from our neck of the woods?
Trust me,.. we can.

No one said the obvious.. Its already legal in California.. There is no prohibition right now, just get up and go get a recommendation from your local doctor.. Its fast and easy, and they give them out for a variety of reasons..

You need to find another source. You’re getting ripped off. Prices are actually half of that…don’t ask me how I know.

Yes, vaporizers negate those studies. I suggest all smokers change to vapes. They can be found cheaply on ebay ($50). From the very first line of the study- “The combustion of this vegetable material into smoke and its inhalation into the lungs is inherently unhealthy”.

I have seen alcohol do more damage than just about anything except heroin and cocaine, though I think crystal meth is more dangerous because of what it can do to the mind as well as the body…..

A few years back the soccer World Cup was played at various cities around Europe. In country after country hordes of drunken fans marauded in the streets, even killing a cop in France. I was thinking it was soccer's fault, or the frault of soccer fans. Then they played some games in the Netherlands, where, of course, cannabis is freely available. Guess what? No unruly crowds!

Nuff said

Boxer is an enemy of the Bill of Rights. Her career needs to end. Marijuana Legalization is the political platform of the future.

The AP has been heavily involved in either outright false reporting of data or misrepresenting it in order to try to influence public opinion for quite a number of years now. Why anyone would report their propaganda as news is beyond me. Good on Stephen Webster for digging a bit deeper into the story to reveal the truth.

I think that is true. Watched a vid of a coffee shop in Amsterdam on Youtube, where some woman was making a purchase, and the counter guy was showing her his stock.

Wow. Dreck, I mean the little popcorn buds on the bottom of the plant….going for full price like some thick top cola of 22% THC buds. Yikes, who’d wanna go there when you could chill in Mendocino Co., or up in Trinity Co., and buy it cheaper and better, and warm 8 months of the year???

Legalization is a DONE DEAL (see real poll above: 56%-44%). Get ready wanna be a california businesswoman or man?? NOW is the time: falling, cheaper house and land prices and a WHOLE NEW MARKET.

California finds a way out of it’s nightmare…leading the nation, again.

So, farming makes a comeback, and the better the farmer you are, maybe even getting certified “Organic”, the more attentive you are, the higher the price for your harvest.

Isn’t that capitalism at it’s finest example? Who knows…maybe you go trade a basket of fresh heirloom tomatos you grow for 1/4 oz of couch lock sativa, or I weld you a new exhaust system for your motorcycle for 1/2 oz of some Trainwreck….a cross of the Laos sativa and some Hindustan indica….. the Laos King of Sativa btw….which just so happens to be flowing into The Rose of the North right now from Laos ;<) Gotta trust me on that.

$30 US a kilo.

And government tax man collects nothing. STARVE OLIGARCHY TO DEATH.

out

I think that is true. Watched a vid of a coffee shop in Amsterdam on Youtube, where some woman was making a purchase, and the counter guy was showing her his stock.

Wow. Dreck, I mean the little popcorn buds on the bottom of the plant….going for full price like some thick top cola of 22% THC buds. Yikes, who’d wanna go there when you could chill in Mendocino Co., or up in Trinity Co., and buy it cheaper and better, and warm 8 months of the year???

Legalization is a DONE DEAL (see real poll above: 56%-44%). Get ready wanna be a california businesswoman or man?? NOW is the time: falling, cheaper house and land prices and a WHOLE NEW MARKET.

California finds a way out of it’s nightmare…leading the nation, again.

So, farming makes a comeback, and the better the farmer you are, maybe even getting certified “Organic”, the more attentive you are, the higher the price for your harvest.

Isn’t that capitalism at it’s finest example? Who knows…maybe you go trade a basket of fresh heirloom tomatos you grow for 1/4 oz of couch lock sativa, or I weld you a new exhaust system for your motorcycle for 1/2 oz of some Trainwreck….a cross of the Laos sativa and some Hindustan indica….. the Laos King of Sativa btw….which just so happens to be flowing into The Rose of the North right now from Laos ;<) Gotta trust me on that.

$30 US a kilo.

And government tax man collects nothing. STARVE OLIGARCHY TO DEATH.

out

Unless we legalize marijuana, senseless felony convictions will continue…Ruining hundreds of thousands of lives a year and holding our state and nation back from ideological and economical greatness. Remember the right to life, liberty and THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS absolutely includes the right to eat, drink or inhale anything an individual wants, and on the economic side unemployment rates do not include those who are incarcerated and they are adversely affected by felony convictions…
LEGALIZE THE PLANT.

I didn't even bother clicking on the RW link since it was so obviously a propaganda piece.

Excuse me, she is California’s senator…not like weed is off the radar there. “Older politicians” do you think she never saw a joint before???? Bwahahahaha suuuure.

She”s made her bed with her with the Narc officer unions giving her campaign funding. Now she can sleep in it.
She should have been meeting with NORML. Her bad: she has to go.

Not that I will shed any tears for the woman that supported every invasion and occupation Bush asked her to. Not that I will shed any tears for the woman that had the chutzpah to have a website stating she doesn’t take comments from voters not in her state, while she was off in Connecticut telling the voters there they should vote for LIEberman over the Democratic primary winner.

Sorry marvinmarks, you’re an election cycle behind: we don’t vote for “least worst” anymore.

There are more than two choices. Actually, that is an illusion: they are the same party, controlled by the same puppetmasters.

Excuse me, she is California’s senator…not like weed is off the radar there. “Older politicians” do you think she never saw a joint before???? Bwahahahaha suuuure.

She”s made her bed with her with the Narc officer unions giving her campaign funding. Now she can sleep in it.
She should have been meeting with NORML. Her bad: she has to go.

Not that I will shed any tears for the woman that supported every invasion and occupation Bush asked her to. Not that I will shed any tears for the woman that had the chutzpah to have a website stating she doesn’t take comments from voters not in her state, while she was off in Connecticut telling the voters there they should vote for LIEberman over the Democratic primary winner.

Sorry marvinmarks, you’re an election cycle behind: we don’t vote for “least worst” anymore.

There are more than two choices. Actually, that is an illusion: they are the same party, controlled by the same puppetmasters.

The Finest wine sells for $400+ a bottle. The Finest cigars sells for $400+ a lid. The Finest marijuana will sell for $400+ an ounce. The wine and cigar industries are doing just fine. I'm sure that producers of fine marijuana will do just fine also.

Try it first before you spew incorrect information. Studies have concluded that two oz of alcohol is worse on drivers than someone that is completely stoned.

“It’s not the same as alcohol, which doesn’t lead to stronger drugs which pot can do.”

OOPS! Sorry but again you’re incorrect. Alcohol only leads to death; pot leads you to the munchies. Although I’d have to say the PROHIBITION leads to harder drugs as the same illegal pot dealer might be pushing something else… understand? See, not to difficult to grasp. Your gateway theory is just propaganda from 50′s and you fell for it like many others so don’t feel stupid. Our government has been at it for decades.

Try it first before you spew incorrect information. Studies have concluded that two oz of alcohol is worse on drivers than someone that is completely stoned.

“It’s not the same as alcohol, which doesn’t lead to stronger drugs which pot can do.”

OOPS! Sorry but again you’re incorrect. Alcohol only leads to death; pot leads you to the munchies. Although I’d have to say the PROHIBITION leads to harder drugs as the same illegal pot dealer might be pushing something else… understand? See, not to difficult to grasp. Your gateway theory is just propaganda from 50′s and you fell for it like many others so don’t feel stupid. Our government has been at it for decades.

The yes vote on Prop 215, California, 1996: 56%. I believe Marijuana is more popular now than 14 years ago. I believe people are more educated now than ever before. Remember what Ed Rosenthal said: “WE ARE THE MAJORITY.”

it like when GWB was elected …well allegdely elected ,what “they” say isn't always what the “people” say !

I’ve smoked pot for 44 years, it’s never been a steady thing and it hasn’t lead me to any hard drugs. At times, if it wasn’t available, I wasn’t out looking for a fix of anything else to make up for the times that it was available.

I’ve smoked pot for 44 years, it’s never been a steady thing and it hasn’t lead me to any hard drugs. At times, if it wasn’t available, I wasn’t out looking for a fix of anything else to make up for the times that it was available.

The cartels are not making money by selling pot, but by selling meth, cocaine, and heroin.
Legalizing pot will be of very little consequence to them.
Legalizing all drugs eliminates the need for cartels altogether, just as ending alcohol prohibition got the gangsters out of the sale & distribution of that product.

The cartels are not making money by selling pot, but by selling meth, cocaine, and heroin.
Legalizing pot will be of very little consequence to them.
Legalizing all drugs eliminates the need for cartels altogether, just as ending alcohol prohibition got the gangsters out of the sale & distribution of that product.

All the people that do “hard” drugs have equal access to marijuana, they just happen to prefer other substances to weed.
Cocaine became popular once it was actively marketed & became readily available to the masses – just like every other drug – and most of the people who enjoy stimulants – let alone opiates – would probably not find marijuana to be an effective substitute.

All the people that do “hard” drugs have equal access to marijuana, they just happen to prefer other substances to weed.
Cocaine became popular once it was actively marketed & became readily available to the masses – just like every other drug – and most of the people who enjoy stimulants – let alone opiates – would probably not find marijuana to be an effective substitute.

And we can't even comment on the syndicated content from them!!!

(Though I suspect that is something RAW could fix if they tried?!?!)

Nelson, Nelson, Nelson… Search the words… red-herring, half-truth, straw-man and false-logic. Just because you wake up in the morning, doesn’t mean you bring the sun with you.

Nelson, Nelson, Nelson… Search the words… red-herring, half-truth, straw-man and false-logic. Just because you wake up in the morning, doesn’t mean you bring the sun with you.

I just read about the new Drug Lord in Mexico, who is also one of the richest men in the world, who receives 60% of his drug money from sales of pot.

Sorry, but you are totally wrong. Pot is a huge cash source for cartels

Nice try, but you REALLY need to do some more research.

Cannabis was made illegal by the state of CA in 1913, specifically so they could kick the Mexicans out of the state. 4 years later, 5 more southwestern states voted for the same thing, and for the same reason. By the time it got to the federal level, it was 1937.

The Mexican cartels make about 60% of their money from selling weed. Where the hell are you getting your information, anyway? I’ve never seen anyone who is for legalization be SO uninformed over what you are talking about. You seriously need to do some more research, and NOT from right winger sites.

If you legalize pot, the market for meth, cocaine, and heroin will largely dry up and go away, especially meth. Few people had any interest in cocaine until pot was widely made illegal in the late 1960s.

This is a mind war.
While we get fascist propaganda polls shoved down our throats..

Meanwhile Pot busts are DEA/Prison/Court System big business.
(note: If convicted, the suspects face up to 20 years in prison and fines as high as $4 million.)

http://cbs13.com/local/jail.pot.bus.2.1650961.html
http://www.kcra.com/news/23236707/detail.html
http://cbs13.com/crime/jail.pot.bus.2.1650961.html
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=elk+grove+…

This is a mind war.
While we get fascist propaganda polls shoved down our throats..

Meanwhile Pot busts are DEA/Prison/Court System big business.
(note: If convicted, the suspects face up to 20 years in prison and fines as high as $4 million.)

http://cbs13.com/local/jail.pot.bus.2.1650961.html
http://www.kcra.com/news/23236707/detail.html
http://cbs13.com/crime/jail.pot.bus.2.1650961.html
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=elk+grove+…

hey pillyboy weed in the midwest and south runs about 75 a quarter. hydroponic is running from 100 to 125 for the same. maybe you live in california where easy access to the dispenseries have essentially lowered the market prices? dont preach to me about prices i've been nailin the tops for 35 years. zig zag is my cousin. i'm still coughin up wheatstraw and paraquat from the 70's. i wasn't referring to dirtweed, didn't think anyone would wrap their lips around it anymore.

I’m not denying the existence of Mexican marijuana in the US, but they can’t compete quality wise, and their product sells for at least 50% cheaper than American pot.
They no doubt make their money by moving it in bulk, but I would REALLY like to know where you get your figure of 60%.
Pot is bulky – Powders are not.
Good pot is $50 for 3.5 grams – Mexican pot is $25 for 7 grams – whereas cocaine is $50 a gram, and meth & heroin are MUCH more expensive.
Do the math.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/06/AR2009100603847.html
http://articles.sfgate.com/2003-06-08/news/17493578_1_total-heroin-opium-poppies
http://www.justice.gov/dea/pubs/state_factsheets.html

The numbers I’ve seen put domestic production of marijuana at around 50%, whereas the overwhelming majority of “hard” drugs enter the US from Mexico.

What was fallacious in my statement?

I’ve read about “El Chapo” too, and, as you point out, he’s still making over a half a billion dollars a year selling drugs other than pot.

You have internet access, so you should have no problem confirming that cocaine is still widely consumed in the US, and that the majority of heroin, meth, and coke are all coming in from Mexico, Compadre.

Golly, Nelson, you are so misinformed it is breathtaking. I suggest you try to find any evidence of your blanket (untrue) condemnation of all things Mexican. What a dolt.

I agree with you. What’s the point.
A lot of people don’t like the smell of garlic, car/bus fumes, gas etc.

I thought it was kinda odd that the headline in my local fishwrapper touted “Majority Oppose Legal Marijuana” and yet the internet poll they had running beside it showed an 80% majority *for* legalization.

as the saying goes – you have lies, damn lies, and statistics.

Nelson, Nelson, Nelson . . . Do you just make this stuff up to satisfy your convoluted beliefs, or do you just say the next thing that pops into your head that sound intellectual? I do not have “equal access to marijuana” and I am a legal user under the New Mexico medical marijuana law. Hard drugs — as you call them — are much more readily available on the streets than good pot.

With the exception of a few of the more exotic contemporary psychedelics, I have tried all of the products on the market, and would say that smoking or shooting stimulants is MUCH more dangerous than drinking alcohol.
These days I only use high quality canabis & alcohol – both in moderation – and I have actually come to view caffeine as one of the worst drugs on the market.

Also, by your logic, most of the heroin trade in the US would be controlled by Chinese immigrants working on the railroad.

Well, if you’re talking “Cannabis Cup” qualities, I can understand the prices.

But that’s not typical at all.

I make my statements as someone who has been using drugs for over 20 years, and as a second generation drug user who was brought up around it.
I have never had any trouble finding weed or any other drug, and have been able to score it on the street just as easily as hard drugs, although I would agree that the quality is lower for ANY drug bought on the streets, regardless of whether it is canabis or heroin.
That’s what drug dealers are for, and most of the people I’ve known that sold pot either sold other drugs or could refer me to people who did, and I don’t think my experience is at all unusual in that regard.
I’ve never used cocaine or any other drug – and I’ve tried most all of them – without simultaneously smoking marijuana, but many of my coke head friends hate pot, and the full on addicts I know would never consider it a substitute for heroin or anything else.
(Even addicts that do like it consider it a waste of money that could be better spent feeding their habit.)
I know for a fact that drugs of all varieties are widely available in your state, so my advice is to keep looking.
(Perhaps you should ask the people you claim to know who sell other drugs about it, or even ask at a dispensary or head shop, as you are a legal user.)

There is nothing remotely anti-Mexican in my statement.
I SUPPORT the legalization of ALL drugs, something that would completely decimate the cartels.
There used to be gangsters shooting up the streets with tommy guns fighting over bootleg gin.
Once prohibition ended, so did the profit motive for organized crime to be involved in the production & sale of alcohol.
Legalizing marijuana will hurt the cartels, but they will still be making billions of dollars from the other drugs they sell unless we legalize them all.

I’m all for legalizing marijuana – And ALL other drugs.

Sure… do that as well but keep in mind that 80-85% of their “business” is marijuana. Think of any company surviving after you’ve gutted them of 80% of their revenue. Subway? AT&T?

As for the violence… that can increase *temporarily* when the easy money tap is turned off and once-wealthy gangs squabble over scraps. That happened with the end of Alcohol Prohibition in the US. However, it is something that can be handled easier and cleaned up faster because the crooks have lost their millions they were using to bribe officials.

Get the law enforcement opinion on this at: http://www.leap.cc (Law Enforcement Against Prohibition). Give’m a couple bucks while you’re there. ;-)

Nelson, you are ill informed.

Of course end this stupid prohibition but your claims are simply not true concerning their business.

“I have actually come to view caffeine as one of the worst drugs on the market.”

That statement is totally in line with the other “reasoning” you’ve posted here. ;-)

“I make my statements as someone who has been using drugs for over 20 years, and as a second generation drug user who was brought up around it.”

Well, Nelson, first you should try to come down from your life-long drug abuse stupor, and try to see the truth.

“”(Perhaps you should ask the people you claim to know who sell other drugs about it, or even ask at a dispensary or head shop, as you are a legal user.)”

I do not “claim to know” any drug dealers, but I have asked around about where to get marijuana and I am told that heroin and meth are much more readily available here on our mean streets. And, for your information, New Mexico does not have dispensaries and the local head shop owner was recently arrested for selling heroin and meth (but not marijuana) out of his shop. I am just a poor 70-year-old cancer patient who has zero experience with drug dealers and even less interest in having any contact with them. If you know where marijuana is “widely available” in northeastern New Mexico, please let me know.

Most older main-line Democrats are as well, such as the Clintons. Email Boxer, or whomever your rep it. Just google “email my representative.”

They are AFRAID, and they are not talking about why. If everyone who wants to can just grow a few plants in three and a half months the criminals will begin running out of money. Were talking about millions of people who spend between fifty and a hundred dollars a week on weed, that’s a lot of money.
When the bad guys run out of money they will resort to real crime, and I think the powers that be are very afraid of what that might look like. Or, to put it another way, they’re schoolyard bullies who would rather arrest some stoner then go after real threats.

That would be true IF the markets for all these drugs was the same size. They AREN’T. The market for weed is FAR larger than the market for coke, heroin, meth, cane toads, mushrooms, or any of the other illegal substances. Yes, weed is harder to ship due to it’s bulk, but that doesn’t seem to stop anyone from trying it and frequently succeeding. The market’s size will always influence how much of a product is traded, and all markets are not the same size.

As to your second comment about where all these drugs come from, you again show a complete lack of historical understanding. What was going on in the 60′s and 70′s when all the heroin showed up? A little thing called Viet Nam, maybe? And in the 80′s, when the coke showed up in HUGE quantities for the first time in years? A little bit of military fooling around in central America, maybe? With the planes that ran guns down there came back with tons of CIA coke? And now, when there seems to be a surge in heroin, again, is it any real surprise that we are militarily involved in the part of the world where that stuff comes from? France was introduced to cannabis by it’s soldiers coming back from war in the middle east. It’s ALWAYS been this way, it’s no surprise that the same national stupidity comes back to haunt you in ways you will never understand.

Really, you need to do some more research, you have been incorrect several times in your statements, and that is easily corrected. Just read a little.

Please supply a link if you can.
I’ve seen State Department numbers saying that 90% of the coke in the US comes in from Mexico, and random government sources saying Mexico supplies us with the “vast majority” of meth & heroin, while the DEA says at least half the pot in the US is produced domestically, but I can’t seem to find the cartels’ earnings broken down by percentage.
Maybe it’s just because I live in the “indoor capitol of the world,” but I haven’t even seen anything from Mexico in years, and that’s true of most of my friends & neighbors.

I have yet to see anything to dissuade me.
Please provide a link.

“I have yet to see anything to dissuade me ”

And… judging by your ability to reason… you will not.

Even the DEA says most of the heroin in the US is from Mexico, and so do the half a dozen junkies I know.
(And most of the Colombian cartels were not using the CIA for transport.)
That aside, let’s take your numbers at face value.
If they’re making hundreds of billions of dollars, getting rid of 40% of their income is still going to leave them with one hell of a profit motive.

That legalization to stop black markets is pure horseshit. They are now running cigarettes across the border and making 200% profit.

Yes, I use drugs, therefore I must be in a “stupor,” but you with “zero experience with drug dealers” knows best…
I am sorry to hear about your condition, but drug users are no different from anyone else, and you really do need to come down off your high horse.
As for your problem, talk to the people who authorized your permit, “Q: Where can I legally get medical cannabis if I can’t produce my own supply? A: Once a patient is approved we provide them with information about how to contact the licensed producers to receive medical cannabis.”
“Under DOH supervision, licensed nonprofits can produce and distribute cannabis to qualified medical marijuana patients. DOH has approved five licensed producers, including NewMexiCann Natural Medicine. We will post more information on the producers as it becomes available…If you are a registered patient and would like more information, check out the New Mexico Medical Cannabis Patients Group or email nmmcpg@gmail.com.”

http://www.health.state.nm.us/IDB/medical_cannabis.shtml
http://www.drugpolicy.org/about/stateoffices/newmexico/medmj/
http://www.newmexicann.org/home.html
http://www.meetup.com/NMMCPG/

smallbear, pot was made illegal in the 1930s, not the 1960s

Let me quote YOU:
“The cartels are not making money by selling pot, but by selling meth, cocaine, and heroin.
Legalizing pot will be of very little consequence to them.”

How is removing 60% of someone’s business NOT of consequence? Do you think for one minute that they will just let those tens of BILLIONS go without a fight? Not on your life. Just like the growers in CA who are actually AGAINST legalization due to the price cuts that will definitely follow, they KNOW they will lose, and lose big time. They don’t WANT cannabis legalized, they know they will lose BILLIONS per year. Not to mention the private prisons and the guards unions who LIKE guarding pot smokers because they are easier than REAL criminals.

I stand by my statements, they are based on verifiable facts. You are just making shit up. I’ve been researching this for over 25 years. You clearly have not.

And your point it?

That is exactly what Raw.com did in reporting poles on “health care”; pot and the kettle…

And who do you think is doing the trafficking? Somebody is being paid to do that too, right?

It's all about spin. Legalize pot and the local law loses funding for their army toys.

See how it works?

Decriminalization is a goal worthy of achievement.The idea that state and federal governments will seek tax revenue on the use of a substance they were formerly putting people in prison for indulging in is, in itself, morally repugnant

I understand they aren’t producing it, but they’re still buying paste wholesale, cutting it, and selling it.
From The Dallas Daily News, January 8, 2007, “Mexican drug cartels, once regarded mainly as couriers for South American cocaine producers, have spread their powerful tentacles deep into [Peru], sowing violence and nourishing the reemergence of Shining Path guerrillas, authorities say…In South America, the Mexican groups are bypassing the Colombians and cutting their own deals with coca farmers in Peru and Bolivia, setting up dozens of tiny, state-of-the-art cocaine processing labs inside Peruvian territory, say Western diplomats and Peruvian authorities. The groups are opening new consumer markets throughout Latin America and elsewhere.”
As for John Walters’ allegation, he was the National Drug Control Policy Director – otherwise known as the “Drug Czar” – at the time he made that statement – for which he offered no corroborating evidence or sources – and was using it as part of an anti-marijuana propaganda campaign.
Here are the two sources listed in the link you provided – one makes no mention of it at all, and the other just quotes him as saying that – as well another one for the quote I used above.

http://mexidata.info/id1265.html
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/world/mexico/stories/022208dnintdrugs.3a98bb0.html
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2008-02-07/news/0802061279_1_traffickers-mexican-president-felipe-calderon-mexico-leader

Provide me with a source other than “because I said so,” and I’ll be happy to change my mind.

Mexican “black tar” is known the world over.
Afghan heroin is powdered.
They are VERY easy to differentiate.

People die from heroin because it’s on the black market and the heroin isn’t clean, it’s got adulterants in it.

Where are you getting this figure “500 times?”
When pot is legalized, violence in Mexico will spike as cartels fight to take over the remaining trade.
Those still in business will not want for money or power.

The drug cartels is not the issue here. California isn’t legalizing weed so we can fight the drug cartels. It is a state issue until the Federal Government decides to listen to the people and end prohibitionary legislative policies. The cartels will find some other way to make money. I would bet they deal heavily in human trafficking as well. Meth will NEVER be legal in America, there will always be a black market for drugs, just like there is for pharmaceutical drugs even though doctors gleefully hand those out like tic-tacs.

If you’ve been researching this for 25 years, you should have no problem providing a source, which you have so far refused to do.
If you rob a bank, do you say, “Jeez, we only got $10 mil, not $20 mil,” or do you think, “We just got $10 mil of FREE money?”

Unless we stop decreasing funding of education, folks will continue to make asinine statements.

Also, the cartels have already lost 50% of their pot sales to US growers over the past ten years.
Has that slowed them down any?

Caffeine dehydrates you, is terrible for your digestive system, raises both your blood pressure & heart rate, and is consumed several times a day by millions of people in this country.
Of all the drugs I’ve used, the only that has ever sent me to the hospital was coffee.

See the quote I responded with to this claim above.
The Mexican cartels are not providing this service for free, and are actually dealing directly with the farmers & running the labs in S. America themselves.

Told ya, AP did it on purpose just to “buzz kill”. Oh and probably to appease their Big Pharma sponsors and all.

Sen. Barbara Boxer is in the minority… see ya!

I am merely pointing out the strategic value of mis-reporting polls if your intention is then to steal the election by vote-count manipulation and fraud.

Having faulty polls to point back at helps to justify quelling the opposition to stealing a vote when the majority want something.

Why do you think the media keeps the Tea Parties alive? Not because they have any actual political capability, but because it will “justify” and “explain” the amazing Rethuglican wins in November.

WJM51,
That’s a salient point about the linkage between US military involvement
and hard drugs coming into the US. You’ve definitely hit on something significant there.

You're absolutely correct but don't tell anyone… get my point?

Are government is only considering legalizing pot – and then only on a limited scale – because both the people & the economy are forcing it to.
Unfortunately, they have no intention of relinquishing the funding for prisons, law enforcement, military interdiction, etc. by legalizing everything across the board.
Meth WAS legal in America for years.
It was prescribed as Methedrine & Desoxyn – you could buy Benzedrine over the counter – and we had nothing remotely approaching the problems we do now.
Not only that, but while railing against the dangers of meth, our schools are forcing children to take modern pharmaceutical amphetamines like Adderall, and most doctors will still prescribe drugs like Phentermine for weight loss.

I’ll respond to both of your posts here.
First, I’d like to see YOUR source for cannabis being made illegal in the late 60′s. I defy you to find that printed ANYWHERE but in your statement.

Secondly, my source is this very site, several others, NORML, LEAP, etc. And don’t forget or neglect Jack Herer’s seminal tome “The Emperor Wears No Clothes” (RIP, JACK, and thanks for the work). I suggest that you go and do the research yourself. It’s far better than making up “facts” to try and win an argument.

Thirdly, no the crooks don’t publicize that, but the cop sometimes do. When I lived in FL, a guy I knew got popped with trash bags full of weed and hash. When I asked him about it, he thought it was really interesting that the cops charged him with having 35 pounds, when he KNEW he had 45. Guess where that other 10 lbs went to?

Fourth, where is your source for the 50% loss of sales due to American growers? I don’t see you siting any authority for that number any more than your late 60′s comment.

Face it, you are making shit up. That is NOT the way to win a discussion and to change people’s minds, which is, after all, the real goal here. You’re entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts. You’re not helping your own case with the falsehoods. Just do some research, you will find the facts.

.
RIGHTEOUS EMPIRE PRIVATIZES “MINISTRY OF PROPAGANDA” TO CORPORATE MEDIA GIANTS
.

While all that may be true, it would still put a huge dent in the cartel’s
business; maybe somewhat temporarily, but it’s no secret that cartel’s
thrive off “black markets.” I’m not for legalizing meth and other more
damaging drugs, but the way we handle addicts definitely needs to change!

Putting them in prison is far from rehabilitative, and it more often than
not just turns people who were initially in on possession charges into REAL
criminals. The amount of tax money that is spent on arresting, prosecuting,
jailing and then keeping these people on probation is bankrupting many
states, and our nation’s recidivism rates are sky high! In 2008 we also had
Prop 5 on our ballot here in CA, which was simply an expansion of our
rehabilitation program for nonviolent drug offenders. It would have saved
our state a BILLION dollars per year. But thanks to bitch Feinstein, who
starred in ads demonizing it as the “Criminal’s bill of rights” – it failed.

I voted for prop 5. Feintstein and Boxer can suck it.

Are you still waiting for all the white honkies to blow each other up so you can “move right on in”?

FYI: Meth can be made in a bathtub. Why would the cartels bother importing something that can be made down the street?

The phony, endless war on drugs has ruined many people's lives while providing police departments, lawyers, judges, the prison industry, DEA, etc., all sorts of job security, bonuses, overtime pay, ever increasing revenue & powers, their own smuggling/dealing/money-laundering opportunities, etc.!!! (And this is just the tip of the rotten, corrupt iceberg!)

There is a concerted effort by our “authorities” to get everyone thrown into “the system”, whether it be the legal system, the prison system, welfare system, etc.!

Actually, Gompers used the Chinese and their opium use as a racist lever to organize american workers.

economies of scale – and the cartels probably can obtain better precurser chemicals

corktown mike you are wrong in your assessment. Average ounce prices should hover around 125-250 for outdoor variety and 200 and up for the indoor kind. And legalizing it doesnt guarantee prices are to go down. You forget taxes will add to the cost of said ounces. And dispensaries have in fact INCREASED market prices in around Los Angeles and Orange County. Most of the good indoor is hovering around 300+ when its readily available elsewhere for under that. Just because it’s California it doesn’t mean the prices are lower. If you really want it you’ll find a guy who knows a guy that has a guy with lower prices. =)

Moving on to “I agree lets legalize the weed and stop the beheadings in mexico. lets tax the weed.” First off legalizing weed doesnt translate to no beheading that’s just stupid. Beheading’s will continue regardless of what the United States does or doesn’t do. You guys are acting as if the legalization of marijuana is an end all to vice in Mexico. These cartels will find new outlets whether it be in cocaine, meth, heroin, women, even oil. Those cartels who have weed as their life blood will either A. finance some new endeavor or B. be gobbled up by another more powerful cartel who has their hands in every portion of Mexican society. In our nice pleasant utopia we have apparently seen to hide ourselves in right outside the truth is jabbing you in the eye. Legalization of marijuana will not answer all the problems in the world and the cartels won’t disappear. Lol.

PS. Im all for legalizing it but we have no clear path of how we plan to do it. All i hear is “legalize and tax it” uhh ok…. How do you plan to tax it? Will there be a flat tax on all marijuana? Will it be controlled by the local, state or fed? Will there be an agency to monitor cultivation of marijuana? Those are just a few i can think off off the top of my head and the last will add to the cost of marijuana.

I knew the first poll was bs.

That’s why this October there needs to be a general get-out-the-vote, stoner awareness campaign.

1.) Not once have I said that marijuana was made illegal in the ’60s. (It was made illegal AGAIN in the ’60s after the Harrison Tax was overturned by the Leary case, as I’m sure you know, but I didn’t mention that either.)
2.) I’m familiar with the sources you mention. What I am looking for is something that specifically backs up your allegations, not the name of some general source.
3.) “…no the crooks don’t publicize that, but the cop sometimes do.” What is that in reference to?
4.) I already posted it, along with several other links, but here it is again, “Almost all of the marijuana consumed in the multibillion-dollar U.S. market once came from Mexico or Colombia. Now as much as half is produced domestically.”
I found another quote earlier that said Mexico USED to have 90% of the market cornered.
Going from 90% to less than half is pretty damn close, wouldn’t you say?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/06/AR2009100603847.html

I’m willing to concede that the cartels are estimated to make 60% of their money from marijuana, but if you honestly think they’re going to disappear if we legalize only one of their black market sources of income, you’re deluding yourself.
And as for “win(ing) a discussion and to change people’s minds, which is, after all, the real goal here,” you’re the one who has hurled insults & refused to site sources in this discussion, not me.

I’m not the one pulling numbers out of my ass, acting like the cartels are “transporting” cocaine into America out of the kindness of their hearts, or denying the existence of black tar heroin.
Here’s a couple of more links I made up, note the mention of Mexican heroin PRODUCTION more than doubling between 2007& 2008, and that doesn’t even get into the production in Colombia:

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/border/article_3a4b7c13-a87c-5a09-ad46-713ee05397f3.html

http://www.spinner.com/2010/03/24/dave-grohl-caffeine-overdose-was-no-joke/

All of the plant can be used. Aside from being one of the strongest natural fibers known, the entire plant (minus buds of course) is an excellent precursor for the production of ethanol.

“Even RAW STORY carried the AP's angle, calling the 55 percent “opposed” to legalization in the April 20 poll a likely “buzzkill” on the counter-culture holiday which saw millions of Americans participate in public consumption of the plant.”

Know why? RAW STORY is mostly just linking bullshit AP and REUTERS stories these days. Not any significant journalism going on, just “publicly consumable news links” being gathered and regurgitated. Hey, Raw.. “here's your sign”. … start doing better or it will be time for those of us looking to be _informed_ to leave. If you can't distill the data and want us to do it for ourselves, then you're not engaging in journalism and are no better than David Greggory who recently said “it isn't our job to make sure our guests tell the truth; our viewers can go dig up the facts themselves if they want them”. You'll note we don't tend to watch that crap on TV because it ends up defeating the purpose of watching/reading NEWS to be INFORMED. If I have to dig, why stop at RAW?

http://www.justice.gov/ndic/pubs38/38661/heroin.htm

“Mexican heroin represented 39 percent (by weight) of all heroin analyzed through the HSP (in 2008)…South American heroin representation under the HSP decreased markedly to 58 percent (by weight).”
39 + 58 = 97% – as you no doubt are aware, most of the Columbian heroin comes through Mexico, making money for the cartels there – and, “Despite record estimates of opium and heroin production in Afghanistan, the United States remains a secondary market for Southwest Asian (SWA) heroin. SWA heroin is smuggled into the United States in relatively small quantities, primarily by couriers on transatlantic flights and through the international mail system. Organizations responsible for trafficking SWA heroin into the United States are based primarily in Afghanistan, Pakistan, West Africa, and India. Similarly, even though Southeast Asian (SEA) opium and heroin production estimates marginally increased from 2007 to 2008, only limited quantities of the drug are available in the United States. Most SEA heroin is consumed regionally in Southeast Asia and the East Asia-Pacific region.”

Good call, I failed to post that. I have been saying this for years. It is more potent than corn, cheaper to farm and grows in any type of soil.

I was talking about a realistic point.

Wells Fargo/Wakovia just got convicted of laundering $122 million of drug money and got away with paying a fine, while some poor bastard in Texass, on the same day, got 35 years for posession of 1/4 pound of pot. Legalize it all. Put the CIA, the Banksters,and the Christers out of business. Drug money going to the criminally rich and their corrupt police and government officials, is a far greater danger to this country than the drugs ever were.

Had a stressful weak where I was drinking tons of coffee, not eating, and not hydrating.
Made me really dehydrated, caused my potassium levels to drop, and led to me passing out & having a convulsion.

I find the “pot is safer than alcohol” argument the most persuasive. If you are not aware of it, read the book (Marijuana is Safer: So Why Are We Driving People to Drink?). I found this book very well thought out and entertaining. It cites scientific studies, and expert opinions on almost every page. (Sources are listed at the end of the book.)
It also gives you pointers on how to politely rebut marijuana lies and myths.

media in charge of disinformation
of the american people
sheep husbandry
corporate lies
financial lies
mossad lies
israeli lies
aipac lies
9/11 lies
iran lies

The ingredients are highly regulated – which the exact way they eliminated the manufacture of quaaludes – so that producing it in bulk in the US is very difficult.
Have you tried buying cold medicine lately?
You have to show your ID & sign a log.
That’s so you don’t buy a bunch pills with pseudoephedrine in them & cook meth.

It's horrid, but think how bad it will be once Americans learn the history of pot prohibition and the constitutional raping done to enact it. Learn more here: http://satanssmoke.us

That’s my point – He was using the fact that Mexicans were the original targets of the marijuana laws, that meant they produced most of it in 21st century USA.

For the third time, an article mentioning how Mexico used to be responsible for almost all the market, now having less than half.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/06/AR2009100603847.html

Oh, so “the Mexican cartels ARE profiting handsomely from cocaine produced from their southern neighbors, but what does the fact that I was wrong have to do with anything?” is your response.
Classy.
Since you can’t, I’ll be the adult here and say, “You’re right – I’m sure once pot is legal, all Mexican drug violence will disappear.”
Feel better?

I never said anything of the sort. Try reading for comprehension instead of just finding an attack point. It might make you smarter.

If cannabis is legalized then maybe, just MAYBE, they'll allow (non-intoxicating) industrial hemp. It's a wonderful plant – excellent fiber, high quality oil, nutritious seeds.

Of course they could.. just put “linked articles” in a frame on the page so we can read it, and still be on RAW for disqus instead of having us go off site to read the article.

My hands get all baloony, I see prismatic hues under the right lighting conditions (probably extra fluid on my eyes), foods taste different, smells are more intense, and I hear the crickets fucking in a quiet room.. I think that's all 5 :D

'cause that's not old.

first day on teh devil weed, eh?

Well, let's not forget that there is a HUGE elephant in the room. More people entering the work force, and more machines doing work people used to do. More people, less jobs for them to do… real unemployment is MUCH MUCH higher than they tell the public; many of those people feed their families by selling dope. Take away that revenue stream and now you have people with no means to feed their families? .. bad mojo.

population explosions combined with poor education combined with increased mechanization means MOST of the people that “need jobs” have no real options. Significant numbers of the population (globally) have no _capacity_ for technical skills, they are grunt laborers (or would be) because that's all they are capable of! There's nothing wrong with that, but there is also no need for that in a technologically modern world.

Look what the car did to the horse industry. Robots are doing that to the human industry.. we have a LOT less horses in the world now (per capita); next we won't be needing all those people (robots do the heavy lifting and ditch digging now). It's a problem no one wants to talk about.

While what you say is true, the [current] modern world requires markets which require infrastructure and regulation, that's what government does. They need funding, and they get that by taking a small bit of the commerce that happens over their infrastructure..

What's more repugnant is that our government is busy making bad laws rooted in the morality and ignorance of a small number of people. Until we get rid of religion, we'll continue to have that problem. Science, knowledge, facts, logic, and reason should guide our existence in the modern age, but we have a lot of evolutionary slow pokes in our species.. they are dragging us all down.

industrial hemp is only illegal because of the psychoactive flavor of hemp. Once it's “legal”, it will -also- be legal to grow hemp again. In fact, several states are trying to make industrial hemp growing legal while keeping smoking hemp illegal. Not everyone in all State governments are morons.. just most of them :)

Gosh, Nelson, thanks. I just fell off a pumpkin truck and I don’t know anything about the medical marijuana program (of which I am a registered user and grower). You certainly do ride a high, pompous horse don’t you?

The first producer — for the first year and a half — is located in Santa Fe and only sells very high-dollar pot to her rich friends there. Producers are allowed to “refuse service to anyone for any reason” and can charge whatever they like for their product. The new producers are located in Santa Fe (60 miles away) and Albuquerque (130 miles away). I can barely leave the house, much less travel to another city to buy pot. When I have to go to the cancer clinic in Santa Fe, I have to be taken by ambulance. The new producers are just this month coming on line, and they can only grow enough for about 100 patients at a time because of the 95 plant limit imposed by the DOH. They deliver, but some charge as much as $1.50 per mile delivery charge. NewMexicann is the most compassionate of the ones I have met, and they will deliver to me (finally), but I expect that they will be sold out to those folks in Santa Fe in very short order. As far as growing my own, the debilitation I spoke of that keeps me from walking around also severely limits my ability to grow marijuana. And, I am finding out that it is not that easy even for the able-bodied. Every time it is something different: spiders, thrips, mosaic, too much water and nutients (I just found out about ppm meters last month — they cost $1,000 or more), etc. I am not just talking out my ass here, Nelson. I was one of the first 50 people on the NM program (since Sept 2007). Getting help to grow and obtain medical marijuana is like pissing in the wind. A person can be licensed by DOH to be a caregiver who helps people grow their own (only in the patient’s house), but these caregivers are prohibited by law from getting paid anything to help me.

We were originally talking here about access. It may look good on paper to you, but the program in New Mexico so far only has set up high-dollar dealers for wealthy people in the two major cities. There are almost 2,000 registered patients (with another 100 every week), but only producers for about 400-500 because of the plant limits. The licensing procedure takes about 1 1/2 to 2 years and costs many thousands of dollars to obtain because of the passive resistance to the program at DOH. And, no more new producers with product this year at all.

Raw Story reported that 55% of Americans were against legalization. Just goes to show, like Politico, it's not always being right, it's being first. Morons.

“…marijuana is already the nation's most valuable cash crop, generating an estimated $35.8 billion annually: more than corn and wheat combined.”

Yeah, well that's not exactly a fair comparison, since corn is so heavily subsidized that it actually sells for LESS than it costs to produce!

“…marijuana is already the nation's most valuable cash crop, generating an estimated $35.8 billion annually: more than corn and wheat combined.”

That's not really a fair comparison, since corn is so heavily subsidized that it's constantly overproduced and actually sells for LESS than it costs to produce! I'm not shirking the additional $35 billion our economy could certainly use, just sayin'.

I believe in the medical benefits of MJ… unfortunately the country is filled with irresponsible wastoids and just like alcohol they will abuse it. No law will ever stop the losers from being users. This is just life, laws only control the people that already responsible and don't need them. Legal or illegal people will keep using it who want to. Some are mild occasional users some are drugged out zombies. No law is going to fix it so you might as well stop fighting it. It amazes me that alcohol is legal but pot isn't. To me their is no difference if your an addict or a occasional user. Everything can be abused and abusers will abuse regardless of laws, the only difference is legalizing unclogs the justice system so real crime can be fought.
I can't wait to see what company starts corporate weed farms though….lol
If they do pass the law I hope they only allow minimal growth for personal use and go after the large growers. They should do the same with booze, you have to make it yourself and for personal and social consumption. I swear we have no work ethic, we are just consumers we need to start being productive. lol

As a happy and peaceful smoker all I can say is the only thing that can screw up a beautiful thing like pot is the government.

But I am sincerely shocked and awed that a media outlet would pander their own agenda.**

**- text accompanied by double asterisk is meant to be read with aggressive sarcasm.

I will not be voting for Barbara Boxer.

We get our news from mainstream media on a need to know basis…we get the news the powers that be think we need to know.

Why would the media reverse facts on this survey? It wasn't just Faux this time. In fact, Raw Story carried the original article – the one with the results falsified. So I ask again, why did the media feel they had to lie?

Freedom of the Press implies *responsibility of the press*.

Has our country's media become as dishonest as politicians, that they now feel comfortable at lying to their own public? Have they all decided to do things Like Rupert Murdoch?

If I ever get over the reality of the media deliberately lying by changing facts, I might have energy left to think about pot legalization.

Shame on you Raw Story.

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So prohibition has been around for decades and decades, yet not one of the problems it purports to address have gone away. In fact, they have only become exacerbated. In fact, many of them didn’t even exist until prohibition came along.

How much more time do you think should be given to a “solution” that has proven so utterly useless, counter-productive and damaging?

Cheech and Chong rule!!!!! or Bongzai!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I see from a later post, you seem to actually be arguing in favor of ending all prohibition. If that’s true, we’re probably on the same page.

Legalizing Cannabis would be a very significant and symbolic first step at least.

The Illuminati will never let this happen. They'd lose too much money and money is the name of the game!

The Illuminati will never let this happen. They'd lose too much money and money is the name of the game!

(the above was aimed at Nelson Fairchild. Not myself, obviously)

If I cut your budget in half, are you as likely to do the same amount of work?

Don’t take the argument ad infinitum with your bank robber metaphor. The average drug runner isn’t a multimillionaire. It just shows your naivety to draw those comparisons.

yo brother Nelson, if ever anyone needed to sit down with a fat bud and mellow out a bit, you’re at the front of the line. seriously dude you’re gonna blow a head vein if you keep sparkin up the old “I’m right you’re wrong o-meter”. my 2 cents worth – go pop some lite jazz on the headphones, fire up and tilt back a bit, none of us want your head to completely implode.

A little off topic here but in response to WMJ51 statement about thye police reporting less drugs than what were really there. I used to be in the drug business and i can tell you for a fact that time after time i saw and knew of cases that the amount that friends were charged with were way less than what was really there. If you get caught with a lot of dope the police take their cut and charger you with whats left. If you dont have very much and they want to make sure you go down hard the numbers go way up. If you dont have any they just plant some. A friend house got raided and the police left behind a brief case in the confusion, it had 1/4 gram bags of meth in it for planting. Yeah the police wanted it back.
Dont believe any of this?. think again. this is all first hand knowledge. The police are as crooked or more so than the ones that they are supposed to be saving us all from.
The prohibition on drugs creates a black market for them and that black market goes way deeper than the street dealers and the mexican cartels.

Legalization sounds great, really. But first of all, why don't we do something easier than a mass legalization? How about a mass decriminalization?

That way people like me won't need $2000 lawyers and $150 bail fees and approaching fines and costs for having less than a gram of weed and a cute little fucking yellow pipe.

In Alaska up to one ounce in your home is legal.

In states like New York and California, a small amount [usually up to an ounce or so, which is still a damn good bit.] is treated as unlawful, like speeding. Not a criminal offense.

“marijuana is already the nation's most valuable cash crop, generating an estimated $35.8 billion annually: more than corn and wheat combined”

Follow the money at all times. Currently, the money leads to killings, kidnappings, mass incarceration, corruption, etc. Once it's taxed like it SHOULD be, the money will flow in a different direction, just like it did when alcohol was finally lifted out of Prohibition.

Ironic that no one alive recalls the horrors of the Prohibition Era while living thru a modern one.

This is a plan I think everybody can live with:

Legalize pot, put it at about the same tax and regulation level as tobacco.

Legalize cocaine, put it at the same tax and regulation as alcohol.

For heroin and meth, a much different approach.. Make it available, but VERY heavily regulated, but available enough that there wouldn't be much profit in them for organized crime. Run it in a medical setting, but not like the joke that medical marijuana is currently.

Bottom line, you cannot stop addicts from finding their fix.

BUT… You can stop organized crime from growing into the overpowered cash-flush murder machines they are fast becoming.

Your choice America, a reasonable approach to drugs and addiction, or having the cartels take over.. And make NO mistake, the gangsters know full well the nature of power, and will soon be in a position to overtake EVERY government and system they come into contact with.

right, a little pot never hurt no one.

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California voting to legalize pot will not slow the Cartel drug trade and it's murder rate. Cartels grow in the National and State forests in No. Cal to supply the entire USA and Canada, no stong evidence of export but who is looking for pot export?. These are factory farms in the forest manned by low level illegals, lots of evidience that many are indentured servants fearing for their families safety at the hands of the Cartel. Some of the posts are correct that most available pot is local and better. But it may be locally grown Cartel weed. I don't believe there is much Mexican grown weed for sale in No. Calfornia, why haul ice to the artic? Much easier to haul profits south. Who ever heard of a cash sniffing dog looking at trucks into Mexico?National pot decrim MIGHT put a dent in Cartel profit in the short term. The moonshiners and the 'revenuers remain in biz to this day.First time posting, please be gentle.

I believe that everyone should call ALL of their law makers, both State and Federal, and have them change the law. A society is judged by the freedom it grants its citizens, not by its restrictions. You should call by using this free phone with unlimited talk and text and no contract. Go to http://DNAnetJF.DataNetworkAffiliates. com and sign up. Then call ALL of your law makers and make your vote count!!

ITS “CITE”!!!!!111111111111111

There are all kinds of good reasons to legalize pot and NO legitimate reasons why not. (I'm not going to count prison industry profits) And yet, the argument goes on and on. I'm getting tired of waiting for this country to grow up.

there is a positive and a negative way to think about it but i think it should be legal cause then our prison and jail cells wont be filled with people who dont belong there who got caught with weed and plus weed is better for you then tobacco i would rather smoke weed then pop a cigarette in my mouth and it chills people out and makes them relax but like i said there is a good and a bad side of everything

Bullshit…
If it's legal, I'll be able to grow my own pot and no Cartel will be getting any of my money or my friend's money. Any Cartel efforts to grow and sell local weed will be exponentially diluted in a very short time.

and the Difference here is all of those you have mentioned are MAN MADE…. and should remain illegal!…. marijuana is a natural growing HERB! which has had no bed medical side effects what so ever!

“Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded.”

Abraham Lincoln (1809-65), U.S. President.

I don't smoke it, but I say legalize it and tax it. My wife's uncle is a cop, he says legalize it. Prohibition doesn't work and it wastes his time… Wake up America, stop watching the boob tube and vote. 24 news makes you dumber, not smoking weed.

We should ban Fox News, it is a gateway to hate.

@Nelson Fairchild: Troll FAIL

Pot keeps me from drinking myself to death

Have you not read any of the factual reports on Mexican cartels main cash supply is from Marijuana (70%). Get your facts straight!

dude, 90% of cocaine DOES COME FROM THERE, but the fact is, cocaine is about half the market that cannabis is….cannabis travels literally EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD, cocaine and other drugs actually not so much, yes they are present but nothing compared. i live in austin ( we are on the drug trail as 35 is the main import road from mexico) and honestly you can walk down the street ANYWHERE even next to a cop, and find bud, you cant do that with other drugs its just less available…legalizing pot/marijuana/cannabis, would do more than just kill the illegal dealings of cannabis, it would also make it available for a fuels source (instead of killing our land with corn, which has almost ZERO nutrients and lets off alot of carbon gasses…if you care about those however you shouldnt as plants make 10X or better the ammount we ever could)

on top of that, when we illegalized drinking, we made not only moonshiners but runners and regular makers, when we legalized it again, moonshiners and their runners never stopped….but no one cared either, cause beer was legal again, its really simple….it was and still is legal here…they just need to make the tax stamps available and not tax them so heavily….THEY HAVE ALWAYS BEEN LEGAL IN THE US always….you only need a tax stamp and a license….you people are so illinformed.

In no way does this statistic of having <50% market share invalidate findings that 60% of Mexican cartel profits come from cannabis. The market for cannabis is huge.

Nelson, dude you fail. Ignorance gets your no where. Seems to me like you’re just reading right wing propaganda.

i really like this article. my favorite part though is the pathetic, conservative law enforcement argument that legalizing and regulating cannabis will endanger public safety, even though it would completely DESTROY the illegal tendencies and dangers already facing us. isn't that the purpose of fighting the “Drug War,” so that we can stop the danger and violence caused by these drugs? The danger is already there people, this is just the solution. Conservatives (a.k.a. Republicans) need to get their heads out of their a**es and get a grip

The for profit media long ago stopped being about reporting the news and began being about advancing an agenda. The agenda of those who pay them. I don't even pay attention to the traditional media anymore. What's the point? I can get far more reliable information elsewhere without the slant of somebody's ideology.

Exactly.
Prohibition of any kind has never and will never work.
When prohibitions have ended, the black markets have ALWAYS been stifled.

Two facts that cannot be refuted, the history of humanity prove it!

If we ligalize Pot we will make afortune in this country and probably solve some of our money issues. I mean the few states that have legalized medical weed have made it the us' #1 crop! I'm still shocked that not many people see this, let alone the fact that alcohol is more harmful to society and your body them pot is! WTF America WTF!

Contraband will be here forever, so the secret government can operate with a hidden income base. Know this…there ain't police for the police and death is merely a necessary cost of doing business. It is just like fines for a corporation. Who cares who dies? How do you incarcerate a company? Life ain't about nothing but money. Death is a way of life. It is a sad commentary…but it is a true commentary.

If you research it the reason it is illegal is because of they found a way to make paper out of the stalks. This did not sit well with the people who owned a lot of forest and using it to make paper.

If it was made legal it would put a lot of people out of business as in DEA and a few others. To this day no one has died of a pot overdose. Also the people who are making money selling it do not want it legal.

It is coming and people can fight it as much as they want but it will be made legal. In Massachusetts getting caught with less then a ounce is only a simple fine.

[...] Contraband estará aqui para sempre, então o governo secreto pode operar com uma base de rendimentos ocultos. Sabem disso. . . não há polícia para a polícia ea morte é apenas um custo necessário para fazer negócios. É como multas para uma corporação. Quem se importa com quem morre? Como você prender uma empresa? A vida não é nada além de dinheiro. A morte é um modo de vida. É um triste comentário. . . mas é um comentário verdadeiro. URL do artigo original http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0422/widely-publicized-420-pot-poll-showed-majority-support-reforms/comm... [...]

[...] The solution? A regulated market for all adults, as most taxpayers now agree. [...]

[...] [. . . ] La solution? Un marché réglementé pour tous les adultes, comme la plupart des contribuables sont maintenant d'accord. [. . . ] URL article original: http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0422/widely-publicized-420-pot-poll-showed-majority-support-reforms/comm... [...]

[...] [. . . ] A solução? Um mercado regulamentado para todos os adultos, como a maioria dos contribuintes já concordo. [. . . ] URL do artigo original http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0422/widely-publicized-420-pot-poll-showed-majority-support-reforms/comm... [...]

[...] [. . . ] Die Lösung? Ein geregelter Markt für alle Erwachsenen, da die meisten Steuerzahler jetzt zustimmen. [. . . ] URL des Original-Artikel http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0422/widely-publicized-420-pot-poll-showed-majority-support-reforms/comm... [...]

[...] neither favor nor oppose the complete legalization of the use of marijuana for any purpose?” Raw Story noted [...]

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