ACLU to Obama: ‘Entire world is not a war zone’

By Daniel Tencer
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 16:17 EST
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UPDATE: CIA drone operators could be prosecuted for war crimes, lawyer tells Congress

The US’s unofficial program of targeted killings against terrorist suspects could result in the CIA’s drone operators being prosecuted for war crimes, a prominent law professor told a congressional hearing Wednesday.

Loyola Law School professor and former Navy officer David Glazier told a House foreign affairs subcommittee that, because CIA agents are not legally considered combatants in a war, the law could see them as being civilians who carried out killings.

But “the risks to US drone operators are at this point theoretical,” writes Nathan Hodge at Wired.com. “Unless a judge in, say, Pakistan, wanted to issue a warrant, it doesn’t seem likely.”

Nor was there any explanation as to how foreign governments could learn the identities of CIA drone operators, another hurdle that would have to be cleared if any government wanted to launch a prosecution.

“It is my opinion, as well as that of most other law-of-war scholars I know, that those who participate in hostilities without the combatant’s privilege do not violate the law of war by doing so, [but] they simply gain no immunity from domestic laws,” Glazier said, as quoted by Hodge.

“Under this view, CIA drone pilots are liable to prosecution under the law of any jurisdiction where attacks occur for any injuries, deaths or property damage they cause.”

Testifying before the committee, American University law professor Kenneth Anderson questioned why the CIA is involved at all in drone operations.

“Why should the CIA, or any other civilian agency, ever use force (leaving aside conventional law enforcement)?” he said in prepared remarks. “Even granting the existence of self-defense as a legal category, why ever have force used by anyone other than the uniformed military?”

Human rights lawyer Joanne Mariner writes at CounterPunch that the issue of drone strikes has become more relevant because of the US military’s increased reliance on them in recent months. Mariner reports that while the Bush administration carried out 45 drone strikes in its entire eight years, the Obama administration carried out 53 in 2009 alone.

“The pace of such attacks quickened even further in 2010,” she reports.

ORIGINAL STORY FOLLOWS BELOW

Targeted killings program could lead to ‘foreign governments hunting and killing their enemies within our borders’

The American Civil Liberties Union has sent a strongly-worded letter to President Barack Obama, asking him to end an alleged program that allows ‘targeted killings’ of terror suspects outside of war zones.

In the letter (PDF), the civil liberties group argues that the alleged program — which, according to news reports, is now targeting at least one US citizen — is unlawful and unconstitutional, and could set a dangerous precedent leading to foreign governments killing people on US soil.

“The program that you have reportedly authorized appears to envision the use of lethal force not just on the battlefield in Iraq, Afghanistan, or even the Pakistani border regions, but anywhere in the world, including against individuals who may not constitute lawful targets,” ACLU Executive Director Anthony Romero stated in the letter.

“The entire world is not a war zone, and wartime tactics that may be permitted on the battlefields in Afghanistan and Iraq cannot be deployed anywhere in the world where a terrorism suspect happens to be located.”

Romero’s letter came the same day as a House foreign affairs subcommittee convened to probe the legal issues surrounding the use of targeted killings. It also comes in the wake of a series of news reports suggesting the US’s use of targeted killings has expanded significantly in recent months.

In February, Director of National Intelligence Dennis Blair announced that the United States may target its own citizens abroad for death if it believes they are associated with terrorist groups.

“We take direct action against terrorists in the intelligence community,” Blair told the House Intelligence Committee. He said US counter-terrorism officials may try to kill American citizens embroiled in extremist groups overseas with “specific permission” from higher up.

If “we think that direct action will involve killing an American, we get specific permission to do that,” Blair said.

Earlier this month, news reports indicated that Muslim cleric Anwar al-Awlaki, an American citizen, was added to the CIA’s list of alleged terrorists the US has targeted to kill.

Al-Awlaki was born in New Mexico and served for years as an imam in the United States. He has not been charged with a crime, but was linked by US officials to Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, the psychiatrist alleged to have killed 13 at an Army base in Fort Hood, as well as Nigerian Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, the so-called “Christmas day” bomber who attempted to detonate a jetliner en route to Detroit.

“Such a program of long-premeditated and bureaucratized killing is plainly not limited to targeting genuinely imminent threats,” Romero wrote in his letter. “Any such program is far more sweeping than the law allows and raises grave constitutional and human rights concerns.”

Romero argued that the alleged program could set a dangerous precedent for other nations, which could result in foreign governments killing US citizens on home soil.

The program you have reportedly endorsed is not simply illegal but also unwise, because how our country responds to the threat of terrorism will in large measure determine the rules that govern every nation’s conduct in similar contexts. If the United States claims the authority to use lethal force against suspected enemies of the U.S. anywhere in the world – using unmanned drones or other means – then other countries will regard that conduct as justified. The prospect of foreign governments hunting and killing their enemies within our borders or those of our allies is abhorrent.

The ACLU is not alone in attacking the program as unlawful. Constitutional law professor Jonathan Turley said in February that the program raises serious questions.

“This is something that President Bush developed,” Turley explained. “We actually saw the Bush administration kill an American citizen named Kamal Derwish in 2002 with a Predator strike. … The Obama administration, once again, seems to be morphing into the Bush administration.”

Daniel Tencer
Daniel Tencer
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  • Anonymous

    That shit-site is owned by tory raygunnites. “FAUX-LITICO” , instead of dysentery from the mouth, they type it out.

  • Dr. Matt

    Hey, Politico, “Palin is a retard and Cheney is the modern day Hitler”. Please quote me…..free of charge

  • icenine

    Pelosi IS an authority figure. She’s the Speaker of the House, next in line after the Vice President and top dog in Congress. Does Pathetic-o really think that’s an insult in D.C.?

  • joseph

    Pelosi can’t so bad, remember the last three Republican Speakers of the House step down in disgrace

  • Youwillsee

    Politico is Politicrap…

  • Anonymous

    This stuff has been planned, executed and sustained only because the level at which this stuff is conceived is way above the level at which the government functions. Investigations and prosecutions? Not gonna happen. Hell CIA director George Tenet was given the Presidential Medal of Freedom for the bang up job that he did for us… No one has been fired or even reprimanded for the massive failure for our governments security structure on 9/11. Disappointed by Oh!bummer’s capitulation?… He does not have a choice.
    Our government is our asset that we fund that provides us a society that is structurally civilized. Since the days of Regan, the structure of the government has been undermined and dismantled… for what?… save on taxes?… If we look at this trickle down tax structure that benefits the oligarchs, any tax savings that is generated through the elimination of social programs (our assets)… are swiftly sopped up by the military/security industrial complex (oligarch assets).
    That 2.3 trillion dollars that Rumsfeld said was missing or mishandled on 9/10/2001… after what happened the next day… not a word from the government about being held accountable for that money … I think of it as a gift from us to the Oligarchs.
    That 700 billion dollars that Hank Pulson demanded that we gift to the criminals that took down our economic structure, without any congressional oversight, without any legal recourse and immediately was another example of the dismantling of the structure of our government. The process that stripped our government of it’s funds was procedurally illegal.
    Ben Bernanke who was recently (and quietly) given another term, claims that entitlement programs like Social Security and Medicare are a threat to the economic viability of the government. Yet only 1/3 of that 700 billion dollars has been allocated. Unemployment benefits?… “tough shit!”
    From the way the rethugs have been acting… It looks like Jeb Bu$h is likely to be our next POTUS.
    It seems that the oligarchs have decided that the government is their asset that they will use it against us with little to no benefit to us.

  • haha

    “Brutal”? “Bullet in the head”? Women fear is awkward.

  • Anonymous

    I long for the days when Raw actually posted interesting articles … before they seemingly got co-opted by Politico and Drudge

  • Terrible

    Why the hell does anyone pay any attention to Pathetico? I didn’t even realize that rumor rag was even still around. And now that I do all I can say is – WHY?

  • Turnip

    She is as dangerous as any of the other-branded and outgoing warmongers. She is there to maintain the war, and the agenda, going forward.

  • Anonymous

    A Pig in Lipstick was simply asking for the government to be held to the same kind of standards that we were used to prior to G. Bu$h II. To whisk his comment off to purgatory… It does not make sense.

  • Anonymous

    What? Did the oh-so-insider-savvy Politico just figure this out? Hell, they’re not as naif as the average intarweb pony-n-rainbow pwogwessive (nobody is), but can they have just now realized our political masters and betters are a bunch of greedy incompetent thugs-for-hire? It’s hardly news that Pelosi is no better or worse than the average corrupt scumbag politican. What’s the story here?

  • concerned citizen

    She has more guts then any of the dems in the senate. She gets the job done and that is what matters most. If she was white, balding and overweight, then that sorry website politico wouldn’t be writing such an article.

  • Anonymous

    Speaker of the House is a lightning rod position… their nose must be clean and have a tough hide.

  • Margie

    I wish there were more Nancy Pelosi’s. She gets things done and doesn’t take any crap.
    She is stronger and smarter and rules with an iron fist in a velvet glove.

  • Margie

    That bad woman is knocking the s**t out of the good ol boys. She hasen’t read their
    playbook and doesn’t intend to.

  • chabuka

    As long as Ms. Pelosi is on the side of the people, which she seems to be, consistently, I don’t care who or how many she shoots in the head….over in the Senate guns are drawn for Corporations, shooting the “the people” in the head….I wish Speaker Pelosi was the President….she has the backbone and the will of the people so lacking in the White House and Senate

  • PrissyPatriot

    Interesting that a woman who holds the reigns, yet took impeachment off the table because she feared her republican buddies wrath, would use the ole “bullet to the head” threat…perhaps she believes dems will play nice, but ‘the queen’ doesn’t need to do so. I’d love to see her OUT. She gives women leaders a bad name.

  • PrissyPatriot

    “Gets things done?” Like what, dear? I see Nancy as an obstructionist to any progress and gave King George II freedom to do whatever the hell he wanted. (After issuing empty meaningless threats of course)

  • Anonymous

    What a load of crap. Pelosi protected Bush for years. Fuck her, that worthless, useless twat.

  • Anonymous

    You are full of shit. Have you been paying attention at all for the last several years? Pelosi was Bush’s biggest protector in Congress. If not for her, he would have been impeached.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Carol-Falk/100000178121871 Carol Falk

    I am liking a strong leader in the House right now.

  • bill granberry

    Only the EVIL made it in Nancy’s mother, when she was conceived, all the good ran down her daddy’s testicles.

  • bill granberry

    Only the EVIL made it in Nancy’s mother, when she was conceived, all the good ran down her daddy’s testicles.

  • bill granberry

    Only the EVIL made it in Nancy’s mother, when she was conceived, all the good ran down her daddy’s testicles.

  • benway

    Good for her! Maybe the Democrats are finally growing a spine.

  • benway

    Good for her! Maybe the Democrats are finally growing a spine.

  • benway

    Good for her! Maybe the Democrats are finally growing a spine.

  • benway

    Keeping your members in line is what it’s all about. How is this somehow thuggery?

  • benway

    Keeping your members in line is what it’s all about. How is this somehow thuggery?

  • benway

    Keeping your members in line is what it’s all about. How is this somehow thuggery?

  • dave

    Get your facts straight, bucko. The quote was authoritarian, not an authority figure.

  • dave

    Get your facts straight, bucko. The quote was authoritarian, not an authority figure.

  • dave

    Get your facts straight, bucko. The quote was authoritarian, not an authority figure.

  • Anonymous

    Bull. She’s a worthless wimp who fights for nothing. The Democratic Congress is a freaking JOKE. She didn’t fight Bush/Cheney ONE LITTLE BIT and went along with everything they wanted. What about the rule of law and accountability for all the crimes of the Bush/Cheney administration? NOTHING from her, nothing. She’s a DINO, a Democrat in Name Only.

  • Anonymous

    Bull. She’s a worthless wimp who fights for nothing. The Democratic Congress is a freaking JOKE. She didn’t fight Bush/Cheney ONE LITTLE BIT and went along with everything they wanted. What about the rule of law and accountability for all the crimes of the Bush/Cheney administration? NOTHING from her, nothing. She’s a DINO, a Democrat in Name Only.

  • Anonymous

    Bull. She’s a worthless wimp who fights for nothing. The Democratic Congress is a freaking JOKE. She didn’t fight Bush/Cheney ONE LITTLE BIT and went along with everything they wanted. What about the rule of law and accountability for all the crimes of the Bush/Cheney administration? NOTHING from her, nothing. She’s a DINO, a Democrat in Name Only.

  • Anonymous

    Why then do you have a link to Politico on the front page? (Acorn Cleared in Brooklyn) You could have linked to Bradblog or Media Matters or others. Why give them clicks?

  • Anonymous

    Why then do you have a link to Politico on the front page? (Acorn Cleared in Brooklyn) You could have linked to Bradblog or Media Matters or others. Why give them clicks?

  • Anonymous

    Why then do you have a link to Politico on the front page? (Acorn Cleared in Brooklyn) You could have linked to Bradblog or Media Matters or others. Why give them clicks?

  • opeluboy

    Would love to see MSNBC stop using Politico “journalists” on their shows.

  • opeluboy

    Would love to see MSNBC stop using Politico “journalists” on their shows.

  • opeluboy

    Would love to see MSNBC stop using Politico “journalists” on their shows.

  • Loonie

    I think they’re getting a little confused as to which denominations use guns and threats of guns to get their way.

  • Anonymous

    Thank you Rawstory for changing the “link to” for the Acorn-cleared of any criminal action- story.

  • http://proudprimate.com Anonymous

    I ran into a fellow Democrat in town yesterday, who quoted Politico, to which I commented that it seemed to me a right-wing paper. He strongly disagreed.

    Well, when I saw the headline, I immediately dug up his email address, and fortunately I couldn’t find a button to send the article to him. Because instead I went to the Politico original without reading Byrne’s screed. Frankly, I don’t find it anti-Pelosi at all — quite the contrary, though a spicy mixture, it seems to me it treats her rather royally.

    I like Charlie Rangel, but I’d rather lose him than the House. I mean, duh?

  • Anonymous

    And this shit passes for journalism?! Jeebus Phucking Christ: did all these assholes graduate from the Stephen Glass School of Journalism? If only she could put a bullet in the head of everyone at Politco.

  • http://proudprimate.com Anonymous

    If there were such a word as assessory, it would be related to assessor, someone who evaluates the worth of parcels of land and structures thereon.

    Just in the last decade or so, words like accessory (the word you meant) have been mispronounced. The correct sound is “ack-cessory”. Likewise the word “success” has been repronounced “sussess”. Has anybody noticed that?

    I have concluded that it stems from the fear of saying “suck”, and that is an influence of TV pop culture. Rather than say “suck”, even as the first half of a word, the “k” sound is simply deleted.

    Like the Appalachian mountains once were rugged like the Rockies, but now are scarcely more than molehills, so English, that bold poleaxe from Elizabethan days, is wearing out.

  • http://proudprimate.com Anonymous

    I agree with you when you say Obama doesn’t have a choice. I would rephrase it as, “his choices are narrowly circumscribed”, ie., if he plays his cards right, he could pull an Odysseus, sharpen a pointed pole and fire harden the tip, then blind the Cyclops when it’s not looking before it eats any more of our guys.

    If he screws up, he’s the next meal. Remember the brief boldness of Paul Wellstone, and the attack ad against him with the tombstone, briefly before his untimely plane crash. That and the direct threats from Cheney in those days, that were thinly veiled.

    They ain’t playin games.

  • http://proudprimate.com Anonymous

    All things in their proper time. If you sink the boat because you’re in too much of a hurry to do a 180° turn, what have you gained?

    The word is “reins”, by the way. It is related to “retinere” (=to hold back), and “retina”, (= net), not to reign, regent, royal, &c.

  • http://proudprimate.com Anonymous

    A simplistic assessment, flavored with a dash of chauvinism.

  • http://proudprimate.com Anonymous

    You’re singing a song that is very popular down there on Tobacco Road.

  • Anonymous

    Oh, I was thinking of “vince j’s” “accessories”, for such things as “cards” stuck in the spokes of bicycle with training wheels and the plastic streams coming out the ends of the handle bars. Possibly the “jingle,jingle” bell also.

  • JimmyJimmy

    Didactodouche: saving the world with unsolicited lessons that smell vaguely of a vinegar and water solution.

  • lucky

    Pelosi is no authoritarian. She is a neo-liberal, although lately she is acting more progressive on some issues, anyway. It’s good to see someone at least occasionally take charge from the dems – everyone knows Reid sure won’t. By definition, a liberal is not authoritarian. Read about real authoritarians from this excellent, free book:
    http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/

  • PrissyPatriot

    Thanks for pointing that out PP. You will have to forgive me. I’m the product of a public university.

  • http://proudprimate.com Anonymous

    The alternative odor is the raison d’être of the former.

  • Anonymous

    Exactly.

  • Anonymous

    I am sorry YOU didn’t get a FIFTH Bankrupting war

  • Anonymous

    And I suppose anti-American comments like that belong to whom… a CIA employee perhaps?

  • Anonymous

    Global dominatioin is the NWO agenda. Their members belong to the CFR, AIPAC, Illuminati, Bilderbergers, FreeMasons, etc. Obama is a neocon stooge, nothing more and nothing less. He is also a CFR member.

  • Corporate Indu$trial Complex

    .
    NAIVE CIVIL LIBERTIES GROUP DENIES THAT THE GAME OF LIFE IS GLOBAL DOMINATION (RISK)
    .

  • scandav77

    Good for the ACLU.

    Our well known wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, spreading to Pakistan are a national disgrace on every level.
    Our quiet dirty secret wars in Colombia, Yemen, Somalia, Haiti, Iran and Venezuela are less bloody and harder to follow, but they are not stopping.

    And really, what are we doing in Mexico?
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=…

  • consumetheconsumer

    You know, this whole BS about wartime powers could be short-circuited if Congress would just modify that crappy Authorization for the Use of Military Force that was pushed through after Bush-Cheney failed to heed warnings. The 'authorization' is so broad that it authorized virtually anything. By now, we should have learned a few things about where the 'enemy' is and craft proper legislation, if it is even still needed.

    ok, now i can stop talking to the wall.

  • loubinion99

    That actually makes a lot of sense to me but the problem is, the US thinks it runs the entire World cause its always up in everyone elses business.

    Lou
    http://www.post-anonymously.us.tc

  • AtlanticCapers

    Before George W. Bush, presidents wouldn't dare talk about targeting people for assassination.

    Americans are now so dumbed down that they think nothing of it.

    Barack Obama is out of control. He wholeheartedly supports spying on citizens, torture, and murder. Time for a new president. Anybody.

  • consumetheconsumer

    Obama operates in the current paradigm. He can't change it overnight. The problem is not his, it is what was created before he got there and continues because once one branch of government obtains power, it doesn't like to give it up without a fight. Congress abdicated its responsibilities with the AUMF. The POTUS picked up the slack and ran with it. The executive agencies who inherited that power – NSA, CIA, DOJ, DOD, etc., will not just give it up because there's a new sheriff in town. Congress has to take it back . . . and that requires looking backwards while also looking forward. It won't happen, not at this point in history anyway. No one is going to be 'soft' on terror, just like for years no one could be 'soft' on crime.

  • AtlanticCapers

    Nope. Obama could have made a difference. People from within the system were/are willing to work with him to do so.

    But he instead made a decision to be an authoritarian war president. He's sacrificing the Constitution to build his empire.

    Obama is more like Bush II than any other president. They're two of a kind.

  • bobdevo

    If he had the gonads advertised, he could issue an executive order and END this crap. Or better yet, he could order his useless Attorney General to prosecute the torturers, the warrantless wiretappers and the hit squads and restore the rule of law to this nation.

  • turnip

    Yes, we've seen the enemy, and it is us.

  • PacificCapers

    Oh yea? You think Bush would have pushed through Health Care? Or a nuclear disarmament agreement? Or granted hospital visiting rights to GLBTs?

    I can understand your anger, as well as my own, at the continuation of the wars, and Guantanamo, and the bailouts (that Bush began). But to say they are two of a kind is nonsense.

  • rawstorysuspect

    “The Obama administration, once again, seems to be morphing into the Bush administration.”

    SURPRISE!

  • WeAreDevo

    I'm no Obama apologist. I think his refusal to prosecute the previous admin for war crimes is criminal — but understandable. Gonads are one thing. But standing up to the CIA and MIC is another — the last person to do that was JFK.

  • Anonymous

    Just a Bush lover

  • Oh Really?

    Anybody but Obama, oh really? How about Boehner or Gingrich or Palin or McCain, or even Pelosi for that matter.

  • rawstorysuspect

    Those things are insignificant compared to the things that really matter, nearly all of which Obama and Bush are agreed on. Your attitude is what enables Obama to be such a poor leader. Healthcare “reform” is a joke and a gift to big pharma. The Nuke agreement is non-binding and ignores Israel (the biggest nuclear offender). Hospital visiting rights? Please.

    Go take in some Ron Paul, then tell me they aren't virtually the same.
    http://www.ronpaul.com/2010-04-25/obama-is-a-co…
    CORPORATIST.

  • bobdevo

    You know, if someone from the gubmint would just come on TV and tell us: Here's the deal . . . all of you need to sit down and shut up or you know what's next . . . I could at least respect that. But they want to make us salute the charade and act like we really DO have a representative democracy . . . and as long as they make that claim . . . I have to say SHOW ME, mufu.

  • AtlanticCapers

    Any one of them would be a better choice. If not for Obama, we'd still have an opposition party. We'd still be protesting wars of aggression. We'd still take serious stands against torture, murder, etc.

    With Obama we have nothing.

  • NewParadigmPlease

    The current paradigm is a raging fire.
    Obama got elected on promises of putting out this fire……..how quick, is up for debate.

    Obama walked into the White house and found three things.
    A bucket of water, a bucket of gasoline, and a pile of wood.

    We keep waiting for him to use the water to put out Bush's fire…..
    On Afghanistan, he poured the gasoline on the fire.
    On Iraq, he just threw some wood on it, and told us it was water.
    On torture, more wood.
    On gay rights in the military, more wood.
    On corporate bailouts, more gasoline, way more.
    On GITMO, more wood, but he told us it was water.
    On Pakistan, more gasoline.

    But the loyal subjects of Saint Obama keep on telling us how their man is trying to put out these fires, but it takes time and we should be patient.
    These are the most disgusting lies. Obama is not making progress slowly, he is not slowly changing things. PRESIDENT OBAMA IS POURING GASOLINE ON THE FIRE STARTED BY BUSH.

  • AtlanticCapers

    Obama didn't push through health care.

    But you bring up some interesting questions:

    What if John McCain had been elected, all things being equal? Would there have been any difference in the health insurance reform bill? Would it have been more liberal? Hard to say.

    Nukes? I don't know.

    LGBT? Good question.

    One thing's for sure, though. Had John McCain been elected, the Congress would have been much more liberal over all.

  • AtlanticCapers

    Obama didn't push through health care.

    But you bring up some interesting questions:

    What if John McCain had been elected, all things being equal? Would there have been any difference in the health insurance reform bill? Would it have been more liberal? Hard to say.

    Nukes? I don't know.

    LGBT? Good question.

    One thing's for sure, though. Had John McCain been elected, the Congress would have been much more liberal over all.

  • PacificCapters

    My point wasn't that Obama has done big things, but that he and Bush are not two of a kind as you said. Obama may be a corporatist, but he's no neocon. Nor is he a stumblin' bumblin' moron like Bush. Or a rabid evildoer like Cheney.

    I like Ron Paul. Anybody who wants to dismantle the Federal Reserve is OK in my book.

    But I still think Obama has pussyfooted about the wars and Gitmo because of fear for his life from the CIA/MIC.

  • rawstorysuspect

    NOFX LYRICS
    “We Threw Gasoline On The Fire And Now We Have Stumps For Arms And No Eyebrows”

    Brilliant? A word describing something dumb
    You create to desecrate the villain I've become
    A prophet, not to be made but heard
    Speaks in tongues and sarcasm
    To me it's plain, to you absurd
    You don't know me let alone my intent
    Actions do not always self represent
    I don't feel urgency in explaining
    My conscience opaquely clear
    The seed is gently sown back to mother earth
    The flower blooms resplendent fumes
    A miracle rebirth
    The cynic in a search of something more
    The fragrant air cannot compare
    To what it was the great before
    Remember the good old days
    Remember the sound
    Remember the sweet mustiness underground
    No, I don't feel the need for relivin'
    Some things are better off dead
    Never thought the furnace
    Was going to burn us
    We worked the bellows for so long
    The comfort of the fire apathized us
    Looks like we burned ourselves alive
    Remember the old band we filled ears with pain
    Nothing to lose there was nothing to gain
    No I don't miss my span of attention
    I do miss my old friend Tim.

  • rawstorysuspect

    NOFX LYRICS
    “We Threw Gasoline On The Fire And Now We Have Stumps For Arms And No Eyebrows”

    Brilliant? A word describing something dumb
    You create to desecrate the villain I've become
    A prophet, not to be made but heard
    Speaks in tongues and sarcasm
    To me it's plain, to you absurd
    You don't know me let alone my intent
    Actions do not always self represent
    I don't feel urgency in explaining
    My conscience opaquely clear
    The seed is gently sown back to mother earth
    The flower blooms resplendent fumes
    A miracle rebirth
    The cynic in a search of something more
    The fragrant air cannot compare
    To what it was the great before
    Remember the good old days
    Remember the sound
    Remember the sweet mustiness underground
    No, I don't feel the need for relivin'
    Some things are better off dead
    Never thought the furnace
    Was going to burn us
    We worked the bellows for so long
    The comfort of the fire apathized us
    Looks like we burned ourselves alive
    Remember the old band we filled ears with pain
    Nothing to lose there was nothing to gain
    No I don't miss my span of attention
    I do miss my old friend Tim.

  • PacificCapters

    “Had John McCain been elected, the Congress would have been much more liberal over all.”

    ?

    CQ, CQ … say again … not reading you. More liberal with McCain?

  • AtlanticCapers

    Yes, today's Congress would be much more liberal had McCain defeated Obama. They wouldn't be looking forward and would probably be defending the Constitution.

    If McCain were to decide to start a new war in Afghanistan, Congress would fight back.

    If McCain were to extend the Iraq occupation, Congress would fight back.

    If McCain were to ignore torture, Congress would investigate torture.

    If McCain were to continue spying on Americans, Congress would object. At least a little.

    With Obama we have nothing.

  • Oh Really?

    I see your point about the opposition party, but I don't remember many Dems opposing the war or torture, except for Kucinich. It seems that the two parties merged a long time ago into the corporatist party. And they merely infight across the aisle to appease their far left/right interest groups and constituents in order to stay in office and save their phony baloney jobs.

    Palin better than Obama? How about eight years of Cheney, if that had happened (and probably could have if they'd staged another 9/11 in 2007). Would you prefer to be in the minority in congress like before? Hell, the Dems were afraid to use the filibuster simply for fear of being called filibusters.

    So who would you have in office? Kucinich? Ron Paul? Where are you at?

  • PacificCapers

    OK, thanks for the clarification.

    So even though the minority Dems did none of those things under Bush, you're thinking the majority Dems would do so now under McCain? In acting as the opposition? As opposed to now when they tow the line for the White House, merely to try and retain the majority, and their jobs, with DNC support (i.e, Rahm and all … who would pull support for their re-election should they oppose the WH). Am I reading you right?

  • hurlyburly

    No, with you two continually going back and forth over Insane McCain vs. Obama argument, we have nothing. Both those men were in sync 100% on the bank bailouts, they both support endless war and torture. But please continue on with your affirmation of the two party trap that enslaves us all. Your loyalty to either side of it, is all that your masters want and need. Choose D or R, and the bosses are happy because the bosses own both the D and R parties.

    Get off that ride, it is broken. Reject the two party scam.

  • PacificCapers

    And vote for whom?

  • edwards_com

    Obama is no NEOCON but PERFECT is not unacceptable to the idioys

  • edwards_com

    Oh yes …Lets impeach the Idiot. How dare he not start TWO GOP bogus wars. He is NO DAMM GOOD>
    Right NEOCON ??

  • AtlanticCapers

    I'd take Kucinich in a second. Or Barbara Lee. Maybe even Russ Feingold.

    You're probably right about the parties having merged, but we have to fight for something.

    What, by the way, is the difference between Obama and Cheney besides the fact that Cheney is more of a social liberal?

  • edwards_com

    The poster is a NEOCON trying to Blur the issue.

  • AtlanticCapers

    Hmm… Looks like somebody's reading very selectively.

  • edwards_com

    Obama is NOT a NEOCON but those posters you are posting too ARE

  • AtlanticCapers

    Barack Obama is a Neocon.

  • edwards_com

    THANK YOU
    For admitting Obama is not perfect

  • wildthang

    Oh, no that isn't all it means, it means we may have the CIA or other secret agency operation targeting and killing our own citizens within our own country secretly for their own reasons, secret targets of their own chosing, in whatever way they want and time and any where they want without any supervison. That is what taking the gloves off means, a total lack of national or international law and a return to caveman existence with the only rule being Might Makes Right. And i'd be very surprised if it has not been happening for quite some time now.

  • PacificCapers

    I couldn't agree more. The DEM and GOP are two wings of the same corporatist party. But who ya gonna vote for? Kucinich on the Left and Ron Paul on the Right? Is there anybody else in congress worthy? Grayson? Is there likely anybody even running as an outsider who's not already bought and paid for in this corporatist oligarchy?

  • MYMY

    There were many, many assassinations carried out by our US government from the 1950s onward. We have tried to outlaw them, but to little avail. I guess once such fire power and technical ability to target anyone anywhere on the face of the earth is put in the hands of government it's a genie out of the bottle. To all our detriment.

  • AtlanticCapers

    Call me gullible, but, yes. I thought a huge Democratic majority would have prompted some kind of backlash against the insanity of the Bush years. I thought the huge political momentum would have been exploited. But when Obama took the White House, Democrats had to toe the same exaxt line they toed under Bush. I think it could've been much different.

  • AtlanticCapers

    I don't disagree, but never before have presidents been so proud of being criminals. They think they're so far above the law now that they needn't worry. Unfortunately they might be right.

  • trevinla

    to the best of my recollection we did not declare war… so… we're just using a bit of force to get out point across, to get revenge… how can we be war mongers if we never declare war…

  • AtlanticCapers

    You're defending a Neocon.

  • moxaman

    I'm sending my donation to the ACLU right now. Way to go guys and gals… this lawless fascism must stop. Obama isn't God, and he should stop trying to pretend he is. We are a nation of laws, not lawlessness.

  • moxaman

    Yes, sadly he is. He was voted in on his hope and change platform by progressives and independents. As soon as he took office he ran directly right and ignored his base completely. Still does. Obama works for the Illuminati/CFR/Bliderberger's, not the American people. He is a neocon first, and an American second. He was the perfect trojan horse…

  • moxaman

    Wrong. He's admitting that Obama is a coward. He's afraid of the CIA and MIC. Their ubridled power and lack of accountability is destroying America and it's values around the world, yet he refuses to do anything. He shouldn't have taken the job if he's afraid to check their power.

  • seamu_s

    How about H0ward Dean. he seems sane to me.

  • OldAtlantic

    Actually, ACLU wages a war of race replacement on whites that is global.

  • edwards_com

    NO but YOU are.

  • AtlanticCapers

    I support neither the mass murder in Iraq nor in Afghanistan. How can I be a Neocon?

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/LPDG6AYIPE5GZLQCZTUVZ3XTM4 alpha

    Obama morphed into Bush44 before he took office. His appointments proved that.

  • Anonymous

    The scuttlebutt is that Holder wants to prosecute the torturers but that Obama is holding him back.

  • edwards_com

    Did you start them ??
    Obama didm't

  • edwards_com

    AS our President busts through the NEOCON log jams. Your disinformation looks weaker & weaker.

  • turnip

    We are a nation of laws, not lawlessness—-/quote

    Are you sure? Please provide something material to evidence that statement, because I have found that we are a nation of lawyers, accountants, and liars, purchasing or legislating exemption from law. The residue of 'the law', which is just color of law anyway, is just for the unwashed eaters.

  • turnip

    I agree, but if one looked at his sponsors prior to the election, they would have known that much sooner.

  • CarlPagan

    “In February, Director of National Intelligence Dennis Blair announced that the United States may target its own citizens abroad for death if it believes they are associated with terrorist groups.”

    What kind of fucking country are we? All it takes is a belief that someone is associated with a terrorist group? There's no subjectivity there…

  • NadePaulKuciGravMcKi

    Israeli Mossad are proud to conduct assassinations world-wide
    We have bloodthirsty criminals within our government & media

    It's annoying that we have to fight elections for our cause
    The inconvenience of having to get a majority
    If normal methods of persuasion fail to win us applause
    There are other ways of establishing authority

    no character no conscience
    judge jury executioner
    no chivalry no valor

  • Druthers

    It may be more accurate to put that in the past tense. We WERE a nation of laws, not lawlessness – perhaps even, we were supposedly a nation of laws, not lawlessness – and few are old enough to remember that time.

  • saleem

    The thing is that there must be a revolution in AMERICA and in that revolution the new government must deal with its own matters and stop supporting Zionism. THATS the real problem. If Palestine is created, believe me all terrroirism will stop once and for all.

  • drunkfoulmouthfilthybeast

    To Mr. President Obama, the world will likely be too small, the ACLU must have lost their lease in D.,C. Maybe they can bunk with the guys on “C” or “K” street, if they are welcome at these two sites, it won't be that the ACLU gave Obama as a personal reference. And that is only 2 lousey streets in DC. Hell, the only place he is respected is in most foreign countries. Just talk to the Teeese Baggers and the Dick Armey clones running around without proof of citizenship, but has a glossy 8×10 of dear ole Dick stuffed in their jeans. No. the world is not big enough my trusted aliens. I say aliens inasmuch as our more superior Repulsicans feel they and they alone are worthy to exist on this planet. Why? you ask? Because God's only contemporary Sons Glen Cain Biecking and Not so Able Rash Lumpy tongue Linpballs who, as we breathe are summing all his dieased minded to follow his scripture and that is to become his “Orkin” disciples to contain your enthusiasm as you carry out thier commandments, seek and gencide any breathing contanimantst who can't provide proof of being a paid up card carrying member of the Repulsive Republican Pukerty.

  • Atilla

    I too agree with the ACLUs opinion. But, I do like the idea of death squads targeting the Taliban all over the world, as long as they target not only the Muslin Taliban, but also the christian Taliban and the zionist Taliban. The worship of the evil god of Abraham must be nothing but an old nightmare, before there can be peace and prosperity for the Earths children.

  • Atilla

    I too agree with the ACLUs opinion. But, I do like the idea of death squads targeting the Taliban all over the world, as long as they target not only the Muslin Taliban, but also the christian Taliban and the zionist Taliban. The worship of the evil god of Abraham must be nothing but an old nightmare, before there can be peace and prosperity for the Earths children.

  • http://proudprimate.com Anonymous

    It is the uppermost class of old Eastern Elite money that has been behind this behavior for over a century, people like JP Morgan, Irenee DuPont, the Mellons, the Carnegies, the Guggenheims — the fat cats at Goldman Sachs obviously don’t give a damn about you and me, or anyone in the world, they’d as soon kill us as look at us.

    IF only the people will rise up and pull them from their high horses with grappling hooks. That would be justice. They should rot forever in prison.

  • godistwaddle

    As we have established, countries harboring terrorists must be attacked and occupied. Any country, then, where the U.S. has carried out a terrorist attack, and you know what I mean by terrorist attack, has every right to attack the U.S. and its citizens who allow its government to be terrorist.

  • http://proudprimate.com Anonymous

    When you work in a convenience store over night and a robber begins to rob you, don’t grab for the piece, OK? Just act like you’re going along with it until you can get them in a weaker position, like Obama is doing with taking the outrageous healthcare funds away from them, the outrageous creditcard scam money away from them, the outrageous mortgage scam money away from them, weaken them gradually and imperceptibly, entice the people away from their propaganda advantage, gather stronger support.

    Then maybe in a while, more bold moves can be pulled off without somebody being “eliminated with extreme prejudice” or another False Flag being done to get the people to rush back to the power brokers and clutch at their skirts for protection.

    This is not child’s play — only a very shrewd and skillful subtle shift — imperceptible shift from standard pol to true revolutionary — waiting for a haymaker — has any chance of real escape.

    And even that is quite unlikely.

  • RantingTommy

    Continuing on your quest to make all white people appear stupid, I see.

  • uggonlinesale

    Scientists at Rolls Royce built a gun specifically to launch dead chickens at the windshields of airliners and military jets all travelling at maximum velocity. The idea was to simulate the frequent incidents of collisions with airborne fowl to test the strength of the windshields.
    American engineers heard about the gun and were eager to test it on the windshields of their new high speed trains. Arrangements were made, and a gun was sent to the American engineers. http://www.christianlouboutinshoessale.org http://www.skechersshape-upsshoes.com
    http://www.uggbootsonlinesales.com When the gun was fired, the engineers stood shocked as the chicken hurled out of the barrel, crashed into the shatterproof shield, smashed it to smithereens, blasted through the control console, snapped the engineer's back-rest in two and embedded itself in the back wall of the cabin like an arrow shot from a bow..
    The horrified engineers sent Rolls Royce the disastrous results of the experiment, along with the designs of the windshield and begged the British scientists for suggestions.
    Rolls Royce responded with a one-line memo:
    Defrost the chicken..

  • uggonlinesale

    Scientists at Rolls Royce built a gun specifically to launch dead chickens at the windshields of airliners and military jets all travelling at maximum velocity. The idea was to simulate the frequent incidents of collisions with airborne fowl to test the strength of the windshields.
    American engineers heard about the gun and were eager to test it on the windshields of their new high speed trains. Arrangements were made, and a gun was sent to the American engineers. http://www.christianlouboutinshoessale.org http://www.skechersshape-upsshoes.com
    http://www.uggbootsonlinesales.com When the gun was fired, the engineers stood shocked as the chicken hurled out of the barrel, crashed into the shatterproof shield, smashed it to smithereens, blasted through the control console, snapped the engineer's back-rest in two and embedded itself in the back wall of the cabin like an arrow shot from a bow..
    The horrified engineers sent Rolls Royce the disastrous results of the experiment, along with the designs of the windshield and begged the British scientists for suggestions.
    Rolls Royce responded with a one-line memo:
    Defrost the chicken..

  • Atilla

    You must be one of those moron Teabaggers. Get back under your bridge and find a child to molest.

  • http://jpbaidu.com/image/aclu-to-obama-entire-world-is-not-a-war-zone-raw-story/ ACLU to Obama: 'Entire world is not a war zone' | Raw Story Image

    [...] post:  ACLU to Obama: 'Entire world is not a war zone' | Raw Story Correction: Parametric Technology earnings story'Scream 4' Teaser Poster and Story [...]

  • steveib

    I'm not a 'Teabagger' but 'Turnip's question is valid and his comments most prescient in my opinion. Do Teabaggers molest children? I didn't know that. Do you have any further info on such a harsh accusation?

  • steveib

    You people are asking the wrong questions and going in the wrong places, imo.

    It's not about Obama as opposed to Bush, or Palin or McCain. They are all members of the same political party. There is no difference in POLICY. And there hasn't been for quite some time. You need to start questioning the so-called “two party”system – which isn't really 'two' parties anyway…

  • http://proudprimate.com ProudPrimate

    I am not only flagging you everywhere you spam this site, but I am writing personally to Raw Story to get you banned from posting here. Spammers need to be eliminated from the web.

    Unprintable curses against you!

  • http://proudprimate.com ProudPrimate

    The CIA has long been launching missiles of one kind or another, and many are aimed at principled people who believe in justice, like JFK, RFK, MLK, Malcolm, Lumumba, &c., &c.

    The CIA is the thuggery arm of Wall Street, and only by exposure of their crimes and enlarging their profile will they ever be trimmed back, and that only till the people fall asleep again.

    Words are insufficient to express my contempt for both categories of so-called people, Wall Street and the CIA (but not all, of course — Ray McGovern is an example of well meaning members. But historically, they are pernicious.)

  • farang

    I see nothing moronic or of a teabagger nature in his statements.

    In fact, it looks like turnip hit it out of the park.

    “Odd” you have child molesting on your mind….

  • farang

    It may be even more accurate to say the “perception” was we were a nation of laws. I too had that false impression…right up until I heard Bill Clinton say NAFTA was a good thing because “it would level the playing field” of workers in Mexico, Canada and US.”

    Did ANYONE think he meant RAISING the standard of living for Mexican workers??????? Quite the opposite.

    Me? This downhill trend of lawlessness started with Reagan's abolishing the Fairness Doctrine, and msm being CONTROLLED BY THE GOLDMAN SACHS-type Cabal. You know who I mean. It's FACT, no afraid to say it, and my bones won't break.

    Once msm was controlled and neutered, fairness and equally applied standards of laws fell by the wayside. I would ask everyone to think clearly” Mockingbird was a REALITY. It is obvious 9/11/01 was a joint effort of a few different groups seeking different objectives, WORKING TOGETHER to MUZZLE the TRUTH.

    9/11/01 IS THE BIGGEST CRIME OF ALL TIME. UNTIL THAT IS SOLVED, “LAWs” are NOT APPLICABLE. I'm gonna get worked up over a bank robbery, a drug deal, a hold up, while the perps of 9/11/01 OCCUPY MY GOVERNMENT and msm??? Not LIKELY.

    Just watch: The SCAM Goldman Sachs is running, still running, will STILL RUN after they “settle” with the SEC. JUST WATCH. A nation of laws…riiiight. That's why Obama appointed Mary Shapiro (isn't it just a wild coincidence how many of the players in the Financial Terrorism Scam are of one ethnic group? Geez, even the Senator supposedly grilling them, him too) to head the SEC….evidently very qualified because she HIRED A MADOFF TO LECTURE THE SEC ABOUT ETHICS IN FINANCING.

    Laws??? Only for some poor schlub robbing a 7/11.

    Scam and ruin a NATION: get billions in bonuses.

    Ignore facts at your peril, America. The ENEMY IS AMONG US.

  • farang

    Exactly. The CIA still has it's msm “Mockingbirds”, and you'd have to be blind and deaf not to recognize them.

    The unspoken reality: These TBTF banks LAUNDER the CIA's DRUG MONIES. Coke from South America, and Heroin from Afghanistan. FACT.

    Props to ACLU, I have been a member for 15 years now, and this director has his game on.

    I have exchanged emails with him, and although I fear petitioning our president is an exercise in futility, as he is bought and paid for by Wall Street, the tenacity the ACLU displays is admirable. But useless.

    Words won't shake this Squid off our face. And “asking” Obama to stop the murderous insanity Bush and Cheney have wrought? Even more useless.

    Not to say hopeless.

  • handbagsonlinesale

    How can you and I really expect to glide naively through life, as if to say, Lord, give me experience, but not grief, not sorrow, not pain, not oppostion, not betrayal, and certainly not to be forsaken. Keep from me, Lord, all those experiences which made Thee what Thou art! Then let me come and dwell with Thee and fully share Thy joy!

    How can you and I really expect to glide naively through life, as if to say, Lord, give me experience, but not grief, not sorrow, not pain, not oppostion, not betrayal,
    http://www.handbagsonlinesale.com/thomas-wylde-…

    http://www.mbtshoesale.net/nike-shox-tl3-c-1165…
    and certainly not to be forsaken. Keep from me, Lord, all those experiences which made Thee what Thou art! Then let me come and dwell with Thee and fully share Thy joy!

  • http://proudprimate.com ProudPrimate

    The idea that Ron Paul or Dennis Kucinich could, if one could actually imagine their being elected in the first place, freely do the things to curtail empire that they advertised as their intentions, is enough to make me question whether the posters that suggest them are thinking at all clearly.

    My guess is, they raise their right hand, sit down in the Oval Office, smile and breathe, then in walk the real power and tell them how little power they actually have.

    After Susurluk, the people of Turkey ceased to be under the illusion. The expression “the Deep State” came into the vernacular when that Mercedes crashed, involving three men whom the public had assumed were sworn enemies, Contract killer Abdullah Çatlı, Hüseyin KocadaÄŸ. Head of the Istanbul police school. Former deputy chief of the Istanbul police, and Sedat Bucak. DYP Åžanlıurfa MP, chieftain of a 20,000-strong village guard clan in Siverek who survived with a fractured skull.

    A traffic accident in Susurluk near the city of Balikesir, in which Abdullah Çatlı, a former ultra-rightist militant wanted by police for multiple murders and drug trafficking; Huseyin Kocadag, a senior police official; and a beauty queen are killed and Sedat Bucak, a Parliament deputy from the DYP is injured. The accident creates political uproar and some charge that this incident highlights the illegal relationship between state officials and the mobsters.

    The Turks now know that the Deep State is in charge and the politicians are figureheads. Here, we don't know it but we are also ruled from the Deep State. They hold power for life, men like Kissinger, Scowcroft, Bush Sr., James Baker, military, finance, think tank — all behind the scenes. When somebody like Jack Kennedy goes crazy and thinks to act on constitutional powers alone, and can't be persuaded to “listen to reason”, well, you know . . .

  • http://proudprimate.com ProudPrimate

    The idea that Ron Paul or Dennis Kucinich could, if one could actually imagine their being elected in the first place, freely do the things to curtail empire that they advertised as their intentions, is enough to make me question whether the posters that suggest them are thinking at all clearly.

    My guess is, they raise their right hand, sit down in the Oval Office, smile and breathe, then in walk the real power and tell them how little power they actually have.

    After Susurluk, the people of Turkey ceased to be under the illusion. The expression “the Deep State” came into the vernacular when that Mercedes crashed, involving three men whom the public had assumed were sworn enemies, Contract killer Abdullah Çatlı, Hüseyin KocadaÄŸ. Head of the Istanbul police school. Former deputy chief of the Istanbul police, and Sedat Bucak. DYP Åžanlıurfa MP, chieftain of a 20,000-strong village guard clan in Siverek who survived with a fractured skull.

    A traffic accident in Susurluk near the city of Balikesir, in which Abdullah Çatlı, a former ultra-rightist militant wanted by police for multiple murders and drug trafficking; Huseyin Kocadag, a senior police official; and a beauty queen are killed and Sedat Bucak, a Parliament deputy from the DYP is injured. The accident creates political uproar and some charge that this incident highlights the illegal relationship between state officials and the mobsters.

    The Turks now know that the Deep State is in charge and the politicians are figureheads. Here, we don't know it but we are also ruled from the Deep State. They hold power for life, men like Kissinger, Scowcroft, Bush Sr., James Baker, military, finance, think tank — all behind the scenes. When somebody like Jack Kennedy goes crazy and thinks to act on constitutional powers alone, and can't be persuaded to “listen to reason”, well, you know . . .

  • http://proudprimate.com ProudPrimate

    When you work in a convenience store and a customer asks you to open the safe, don't grab for the piece, OK? Just act like you're going along with it until you can get them in a weaker position, like Obama is doing with taking the outrageous healthcare funds away from them, the outrageous creditcard scam money away from them, the outrageous mortgage scam money away from them, weaken them gradually and imperceptibly, entice the people away from their propaganda advantage, gather stronger support.

    Then maybe in a while, more bold moves can be pulled off without somebody being “eliminated with extreme prejudice” or another False Flag being done to get the people to rush back to the power brokers and clutch at their skirts for protection.

    This is not child's play — only a very shrewd and skillful subtle shift — imperceptible shift from standard pol to true revolutionary — waiting for a haymaker — has any chance of real escape.

    And even that is quite unlikely.

  • http://proudprimate.com ProudPrimate

    Note of interest:

    You know that little three letter word that starts with r and ends with b and the middle letter is o? I had to post the above comment about ten times till I figured out that word won't get through. Do you find that odd? As soon as I removed that word, the post went through.

  • AtlanticCapers

    Piloting a drone into a schoolhouse is no different than throwing a grenade into a schoolhouse.

  • Satan

    Tea Baggers and the ACLU, that's rich.

  • margaretpoa

    Good! There's no such thing as a “clean war” and these people playing video games with peoples' lives have no incentive to be more careful unless there are consequences for them. WTF do they care if some Pakistani wedding party gets annihilated? Nothing's going to happen to keep them from having a nice meal and a warm bed to sleep in afterward.

  • fingwoo

    Good, if they kill innocent civilians, they SHOULD be tried for the criminals they are! I mean its not like they are real pilots or anything.

    Lou
    http://www.post-anonymously.us.tc

  • Corporate Indu$trial Complex

    .
    U.S. MILITARY, INTEL, GOVT, OPEN TO WAR CRIMES: NATURALLY NOTHING WILL EVER BE DONE
    .

  • hurlyburly

    Seems like a fair question to me.

    Are the Obama devotees so blinded by their love for dear leader that they are actually now defending these old wars, new wars and secret wars?

    The ACLU are the good guys, they are on our side. They are right to stand up against Bushbama for its never ending wars and war crimes.

  • joblo

    I elect ACLU president!

  • http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/ thecrow

    “these people playing video games with peoples' lives have no incentive to be more careful”

    http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2009/09/25/fir…

  • http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/ thecrow

    “9/11/01 IS THE BIGGEST CRIME OF ALL TIME. UNTIL THAT IS SOLVED, “LAWs” are NOT APPLICABLE. I'm gonna get worked up over a bank robbery, a drug deal, a hold up, while the perps of 9/11/01 OCCUPY MY GOVERNMENT and msm??? Not LIKELY.”

    http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2008/08/20/the…

  • robertsfinnegan

    The entire scumsucking CIA should be disbanded and everyone investigated. These fuckers have caused more damage worldwide than the Gestapo and KGB combined. The CIA s staffed by insane little men who were picked on in the school yard and madwomen with terminal penis envy. They will do anything they are told to do, I am sure even kill their families if ordered to. If they don't submit to the rule of law and civilian oversight then they should ALL be shot down in the streets.

    The so-called “mainstream” media that has collaborated with Bush, Cheney and now Obama. They should be arrested and tried for treason, starting with that blond bitch Dana Perino. Upon conviction they should be publicly executed for their crimes.. Ownership of newspapers, TV and radio by corporate pigs should be outlawed and licensing required for these “journalists.” They can cover the CIA executions while awaiting theirs.

    Robert S. Finnegan
    United States Marine Corps
    rsfinnegan@gmail.com
    Jakarta, Indonesia

  • Corporatist UniParty

    Yep, you're right. Precedents have been set. Bush set 'em, and Barry's running with 'em. Almost time for another revolution. But it ain't gonna happen till there's 50% unemployment and people start rioting and burning down the house. So we've still got a few decades to go. The powers that be want to steal as much as they can, and even though martial law gives them hard-ons, it's bad for business.

  • Corporatist UniParty

    Precisely.

  • Corporatist UniParty

    Semper Fi, Marine. Tun Tavern. Older than the U.S. itself. I'm no rifleman, just an admirer. And far left. So thanks for your service. And for your posts here. Especially since you put your name on 'em.

  • farang

    That is correct. But how did we get to this point, what drove this kind of criminality?

    Huh, what's this?

    [The Jonathan Institute was the most important product of the new Israeli public relations strategy. The institute was founded in 1979 by Benjamin Netanyahu, a prominent rightist and Israeli ambassador to the United States, who named the organization after his brother Jonathan, who died in the Entebbe airport raid in 1976. Its propaganda function and its design to influence U.S. and other Western opinion makers were suggested by its opening offices in Washington, D.C., and New York, as well as in Jerusalem............

    The names of the institute's board of directors are not made public, but the organization serves as a virtual arm of the Israeli state. [1] Institute officials told Dial Torgerson of the 'Los Angeles Times' that while the organization was privately financed, the 1979 conference was being run “with the assistance of the Israeli government.”[2] Brian Crozier, a participant in the 1979 conference, wrote in the National Review that the committee organized to sponsor the conference included Menachem Begin, “[who] heads the Committee, followed by Moshe Dayan. . . and most of the famous names in Israel's brief history.”[3]

    The two conferences organized by the Jonathan Institute, in Jerusalem in July 1979 and in Washington, D.C., in June 1984, were major events and highly effective for Israeli and Western propaganda. Both drew in many high officials and big-name journalists and successfully attracted extensive press coverage on the threat of terrorism as portrayed in the Western model. The 1979 conference, held under heavy army and police guard, attracted some four hundred journalists. Attendees included…. George Bush, Ray Cline, Norman Podhoretz,….George Will, and Senators John Danforth and Henry Jackson from the United States; and numerous Israeli political, military, and intelligence figures.[5]

    The opening session of the 1979 conference was addressed by Israeli Prime Minister Begin, who successfully urged the assembled guests to get out and sell the message. One of the participants, Claire Sterling, spelled it out in her best-selling book 'The Terror Network'. Its themes, expounded at the conference without deviation, were presented in a booklet issued by the conference itself, entitled 'International Terrorism…..Jack Kemp, Major General George Keegan, Jr., Henry Jackson, and Richard Pipes. It is interesting to note that although the conference was held in Israel and was supposedly of international interest, four of the papers were written by Americans, the other two by an Australian and an Englishman famous for their long service as CIA assets. All six were notable exponents of hard-line views and strategies [6] and fall into the right-wing category of positions on the opinion-policy spectrum.

    The 1984 conference succeeded in assembling a similarly large and prestigious group of participants and audience. Leading addresses were given by U.S. Secretary of State George Shultz, UN Ambassador Jeane Kirkpatrick, and Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin. Also in attendance were Daniel Patrick Moynihan, Midge Decter, Paul Laxalt, Edwin Meese, Jack Kemp, and media stars Daniel Schorr and Ted Koppel. As in 1979, the conference featured terrorism as the new focus of Israeli, U.S., and European foreign policy concern, and the participants chosen assured the uncontested reiteration of the Western model, with a strong bent toward its extremist version. The Palestinians, with their alleged Soviet “sponsors,” were held responsible for almost every (retail) terrorist attack cited by the body of experts in attendance, who, among others, included Michael Ledeen, Claire Sterling, Ray Cline, Arnaud de Borchgrave, Lord Chalfont, and Jillian Becker.]

    READ THIS!!!!!!:

    “The institute also effectively publicized its espoused doctrine of “preemptive retaliation,” the Israeli policy of killing those designated as terrorists before they can act. To the delight of institute sponsors, U.S. Secretary of State George Shultz pushed this line at the conference and earlier in appearances before the Denton committee. The 1984 conference also produced a widely reviewed book edited by Netanyahu, 'Terrorism: How the West Can Win', and established Netanyahu as a leading international voice in the war against terrorism.[7] “

    Dragging us down into their filth.

  • wildthang

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    November 11, 1775.

    And thanks far left fr your efforts to keep this Republic from going the way
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    I have been a journalist for over 20 years and signing my name to everything
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    Here's to one of my colleagues, Daniel Pearl, assassinated by US. government
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    Semper Fi -

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    Been saying this for years. The cowardly sheep that focus on the “crimes” of the poor and indigent know exactly what is going on. They squeal over red-light runners etc. while purposely ignoring these evil assholes. Don't want to make waves on any of this here serious stuff! They then stick their chests out and expound on their heroic behavior in getting the neighbor's dog arrested for shitting on his lawn. These worthless impediments to real democracy need to be exterminated, otherwise these problems are going to go on and on like a stuck record.

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    You would appreciate the podcast I just listened to today, Kevin Barrett interviewing Jeff Blankfort, the most erudite anti-zionist Jew I ever heard.

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    So — this one finally posted! Wadaya know . . .

  • http://proudprimate.com Anonymous

    That is a talking point, not an observation. The closest you could get to reality with that approach is to say, “Obama is not all we hoped he would be”, at least not yet.

    The differences between the two parties is very striking, but, admittedly, there are some similarities. Whether they amount to cynical abandonment of his supporters, or, discretion and timing, as in “discretion is the better part of valor”, remains to be seen.

  • http://proudprimate.com Anonymous

    “He can’t change it overnight.” I agree with you. Shrewdness is absolutely essential until he, his party, and a major groundswell of interested and somewhat savvy supporters appear on the scene. At that time, the ease of action by the Deep State becomes noticeably cramped. The longer it takes before they catch on, become irritated or scared, the better in one sense.

    I see Odysseus in the Cyclops’ cave as one of the best analogy’s to Obama’s predicament. Kennedy was not stealthy enough. But his situation was more difficult and pressed for time than BHO.

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    Notice that οὔτις sounds almost identical to Odys(seus).

  • http://proudprimate.com Anonymous

    I replied but it is delayed. View it at http://disqus.com/ProudPrimate/

  • http://proudprimate.com Anonymous

    The expression is “toe the line” or “toe the mark”. How does one “tow a mark”? (I suppose you could tow a Mark V — heh)

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