What happens to the animals and plant life in the water if you detonate a nuclear bomb??

It's an untested theory that might make a great Oil Slick Tsunami movie….
Nothing in the article indicates the Russians have ever used such detonations in an effort to seal an underwater oil leak, let alone one that's 5000 feet under the surface.
Most likely the dispersed effects would be able to circulate throughout the ocean's currents and gyres around the planet over a period of time with unknown consequences.

Fuck the Russians, we have nukes, we’ve used them safely, and even for civil projects.

Good idea, and I say hire some advisors from the Russian projects, but even then, it’s not rocket science, the concept is quite simple. And there are plenty of guys in Nevada, and still there, that have plenty of experience drilling very deep holes and doing the shake rattle and roll.

Joint DOE/NOAA project? No need for the Military, they don’t even control the nukes in the first place, that’s DOE’s job.

I wish people would stop saying 210,000 gallons a day and use the actual estimate of 25,000 barrels a day…which is roughly 1.3 million gallons.

http://tinyurl.com/266w2uz

Depends on how deep the oil is. Rainier (Plowshare) only had a 400 foot chimney, I’d suggest that Rainier and other tests in such rock would be possibly similar to the pressures involved in such a burst. Rainier was in granite.

Even smaller bursts, if placed correctly would work too, if simultaneous.

I say this stands a better chance of success than any of the other ideas floated.

How wide is the hole anyway? 18 inch? Smaller? They think they have the kind of accuracy to do a diagonal hole that far with that kind of accuracy through probably 6000 to 7000 feet of water or more, then how much farther to reach the depth to make a difference in the ground, and then to hit an 18 inch target, while doing all of this from the surface of the ocean????????????????????

Nukes stand a better chance of success.

In the meantime, the oil is gushing, and Unocal is poisoning the Gulf in their half-assed effort, and they don’t even have enough of that to last three months.

The limestone test might be closer to reality though. How far was that burst from Carlsbad Caverns?

Successful.

What planet is this?

1.5 km below the surface. not much.

might be a good idea, actually.

remember, the objective is a mile down. a device detonated 1000-2000 feet below that would have probably no effect at the sea floor other than maybe some vibration. remember, there seawater weighs how much per gallon, and they are 5000 feet of it above the hole?

the russians have experience, and they say it works. the geology and physics say it should work, and the ecological impact from fission products would be non-existent.

it's better than BP's harebrained scheme of that dome, which even if it can be placed successfully (doubtful), may not even keep all of the oil in; or the other idea of waiting three months for a diagonal hole that may or may not work, even if it manages to intersect the problem hole.

the usa has tested something like 2000 or so nukes. only a quarter of which were above ground. i'd say that's a good safety record.

russia has had similar safety experiences with underground bursts, and they have proven thrice that this idea works, and fast.

less than 50 miles, iirc. I went to the Caverns as a kid. Rather pretty semi-arid desert setting. I also have friends and family in the area, None of them have seen any deformed kids due to the nuclear testing there, and one friend is a retired teacher. Like you said, successful.

The Russians have not done this type of explosion underwater and doing something 50 miles off shore of the American coast and 1.5 km below the surface without any previous testing would be idiotic.
The Indonesian underwater earthquake in 2004 was 30 km below the surface of the earth and we know the results of the Tsunami from that event.

Let me expand on the teacher. She’s in her late 80′s early 90′s I forget which. She’s no longer in the Carlsbad area, but when she was they were doing testing, and not one year did she see any kid with disabilities or defects due to nuclear radiation.

I see your point but were these detonations on ocean floor? If not how far from the floor were they From what has been said so far this would have to happen at the very point where the well head meets the gulf floor.

In regards to the sandy composition of the floor of the gulf I recall the earthquake that hit California back in 80 took place in a sandy area and that seemed to amplify the shock wave.

This is not something I know a lot about so I am not trying to act like an expert I am just posing questions.

I would really love to hear some serious and informed people speak to the issue of what our options are. By that I mean people who have a passion for science not someone with a corporate agenda.

the alternatives to using a nuke are far more damaging to the environment. and a nuke at that depth below that depth would have in all liklyhood absolutely not have any issues of leakage of fission products.

Hell, Look at Wahoo (Operation Hardtack 1958; See Defense Nuclear Agency DNA-6038F “Operation Hardtack I, 1958″, “United States Atmospheric Nuclear Weapons Tests, Nuclear Test Personnel Review”, 1982 for radiological effects) or Swordfish (Operation Dominic 1962; See Defense Nuclear Agency DNA-6040F “Operation Dominic I, 1962″, “United States Atmospheric Nuclear Weapons Tests, Nuclear Test Personnel Review”, 1983 for radiological effects). Keep in mind that we are not talking about open water here, we are talking about the equivalent of a Plowshare test 1000-2000 feet underground below 5000 feet of water. the sheer weight of the water confines the fireball in a “deep” (but far shallower than this) burst, which turns into a torus and basically is dissipated by the time it reaches the surface (Glasstone and Dolan, “The Effects of Thermonuclear Weapons”, 3rd Edition, 1977).

Get your head out of the sand, if you don't understand the capability that these devices have, then quit getting paranoid. A lot of great ideas were actually tested and proposed for Plowshare all across the country.

Saving the Gulf of Mexico is good enough reason to use what works. The Russians documented their tests too, if they used it successfully three times, then maybe we need to start considering it.

What are the odds of the dome even keeping it in, even if they actually manage to place it where it needs to be, and obtain a seal at the base? So many variables, and if one is off, we still have a problem.

Far fewer variables with the Russian idea, as well as successful use in practice.

Of course you can just quit eating gulf seafood for the rest of your life (we'll probably have to do that anyway. At least with mollusks and crustaceans…. Damn, and there are some damn good shrimp in the Gulf. I'm pissed.

Great Solution! Go for it!

This is certainly an interesting idea but does have some serious risks.

It does seem the tsunami risk could be could be calculated since there should have be some detailed geological surveys from when BP was looking for oil.

The flip side is that we are talking about an event that is relatively close to shore and close to at least one major city that we know is not ready for a heavy tidal surge.

I'm glad I am not the one that has to make the call on what to do because all the ideas mentioned so far have serious flaws.

I for one would like to see NASA brought in, sure they have had some stumbles lately but these folks are the original “Think Outside the Box” people and sure can't hurt.

And that earthquake at it's epicenter had more power than every bomb in the US and Russian arsenals combined.

Your point?

Sorcha Faal is better known as discredited disinfo spook David Booth.

Wow, you have to admit the points raised are valid ones.

Lou
http://www.whos-logging.se.tc

Name one Tsunami caused by a deep underwater OPEN-WATER burst.

When you finish that task, where you will find no documented evidence of such, remember, this one would be 1000-2000 feet underground, besides being under a mile of seawater.

On the earthquake scale, let's take recent tests as an example: The Pakistani tests had a P-Wave of 4.9 and an S-Wave of 3.6 for the first two tests, and a P-Wave of 4.3 and unmeasured S-Wave for the third test. The North Korean test had a P-wave of 4.2 and an unmeasured S-Wave.

Any other Californians here? Have you ever seen a Tsunami from an earthquake of that magnitude 200 miles offshore? I never have. Hell, you can work the numbers based on the P-Wave alone (which would be completely unsound reasoning, as it's the S-Wave that creates Tsunami).

oops. my bad, forgot to source: http://www.okgeosurvey1.gov/level2/nuke.cat.html

Not a bad idea actually. A well calculated nuclear explosion at that depth would close the leak and have no effect on the sea floor. The rock would keep any radiation from escaping, no danger there. It´s not like we're talking about unleashing nuclear Armageddon on the ocean floor. I wonder, though, if the US still knows how to do it, I mean, shape the head of the bomb to modify the wave and all that cool stuff they knew how to do back in the 50s and 60s when they were planning to use nukes to send ships into space and make shipping channels.

Of course, if there are worries about marine life I guess we can just let them keep eating crude oil.

Would you back up your untested claims by coughing up enough of your own cash to pay for any and all unforeseeable negative results from such an experiment?

and keep in mind that a few feet of vertical ground displacement in the vicinity of the burst is only seen above water on land. anyone care to give me the equations to use for doing this? a mile of water weighs how much, the bottom is compressed mud/silt at the top for the most part, i'd imagine sandstone/limestone for the depth of any burst covered with compressed mud at the top, and all that uniform weight on that. would there be any ground displacement in the vertical direction at all?

i have mathcad, mathematica, and matlab, and three computers with a total of 9 double-precision gigaflops of crunching power total. anyone got the equations?

let's do the math!

I never made or implied an offer on my behalf, I simply asked you to put your money where mouth is and you said “Sure”.

Then you backed that up by stating that you “have thousands of test results backing up what I say”.
So where’s your offered money, or don’t you really “trust all of those test results” or maybe you’re just out of cash today?

I know better than to gamble on something like this based on the high probability that the surrounding forces of politics, time, bureaucracy and money would never let it occur.
You can crunch all the numbers you want but if you don’t factor in humans and politics you don’t have a real-world workable model.

At “deep” ocean depths of less than a thousand feet, the fireball in the megaton range has hardly any expansion power at all from the sheer weight. Wahoo, 1958; Swordfish, 1962.

Keep in mind, Wahoo and Swordfish were anti-submarine tests, so, they didn't think about going deeper.

Im in. Lets do it.

The geology of the Gulf isn't that complex, I'd think the math should be reasonably simple enough. We aren't talking about a complex geology here. It's mud and silt on top of rock that used to be mud and silt.

Don't forget that nasty crap that tom delay's buddies are using to break up the oil….even more toxic…

British Petroleum's applications to drill this well were full of assurances that no breach of oil would ever occur.
Yet BP was still able to manipulate regulators to excuse them form spending the extra $500k to add necessary technology that may have prevented this event

Do you have any equations to factor in human error and political compromise as variables within your untested event scenario?

Sure!

The open-source declassified stuff backs me up. thousands of tests underground. deep underwater tests were deemed to be minor experiments and had the expected results in both kiloton and megaton range in open water.

combine underground with deep underwater. yeah. i'd put my money up on success.

Very interesting. This is certainly a topic I know next to nothing about.

Let me clarify, just to cover my ass.

IMHO, if, and that's a really unlikely if, fission products would vent, the total amount of radiation reaching seafood would be unmeasurable, because we generally don't eat stuff from that depth, but, a good guess is that even if, say some shrimp (the cockroaches of the oceans, delicious as they are, that's their terrestrial equivalent) ate something that ate some residue, the odds of those shrimp making it into the human food chain with any measurable radiation would be unlikely. If weapons residue were to diffuse to the beach, it would be actually below background, and given the amount of radioactive material washing down the Mississippi, I tend to think it would be unmeasurable. A granite stone on the beach would have more radiation coming from it.

You average modern kitchen has more alpha, beta, and gamma sources than this idea would generate on the beach. Got granite countertops? I love them, they look great, and last forever. Just make sure you have airflow and a radon detector though, they do bear uranium.

Let me get this straight. We would have to somehow drill a hole deep enough under the seafloor to place a nuclear device into in order to have any effect on the well, but we do not have the ability to get enough equipment to the seafloor to just seal off the well? How would securing a nuclear device at that depth be any easier than just sealing off the well? What nuclear device has been designed to work at this depth and pressure?

If Russia wants that, they will have to give us a copy of the birth certificate so that we can get a regular president first.

What could possibly go wrong?

nuclear bomb? the resulting tsunami will definitely finish New Orleans and the rest of the gulf coast

this is a lesson on how to go from bad to worse

I didn't ask you to bet your money on success as that's unlikely. I asked if you are willing to pay for the damages from any potential or unforeseeable failures.
So go ahead and open a damage payback escrow account with a neutral and accountable entity to put your money where your mouth is, starting with something light, like maybe a billion dollar bond.
Be sure to include public transparency via accessible viewing of the account balance via the internet and post the URL here on Raw Story
And please keep Goldman Sachs away from any of their greed squid participation.

http://www.starbulletin.com/columnists/kokualin…

No, you can't obtain a “certificate of live birth” anymore.

The state Department of Health no longer issues copies of paper birth certificates as was done in the past, said spokeswoman Janice Okubo.

The department only issues “certifications” of live births, and that is the “official birth certificate” issued by the state of Hawaii, she said.

And, it's only available in electronic form.

Okubo explained that the Health Department went paperless in 2001.

Subject: Re: The truth about Obama's birth certificate: Born in the U.S.A.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article…

http://www.starbulletin.com/columnists/kokualin…

http://www.kitv.com/politics/17860890/detail.html

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in…
Janice Okubo, spokeswoman for Hawaii's State Department of Health, says that they only issue “certifications” of live births, which is the “official birth certificate” issued by the state of Hawaii.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The Health Department “DOES NOT HAVE A SHORT-FORM or LONG-FORM CERTIFICATE.” (emphasis added)

http://www.starbulletin.com/features/20090606_k…

From the Star Bulletin:

“The birth certificate form has been modified over the years and decades to conform to national standards and models,” she said.

Okubo also emphasized the certification form “contains all the information needed by all federal government agencies for transactions requiring a birth certificate.”

She added that the U.S. Supreme Court has recognized the state's current certification of live birth “as an official birth certificate meeting all federal and other requirements.”

Here's another statement from their government website supporting that long-forms are no longer available:

“Although original birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth) are preferred for their greater detail, the State Department of Health (DOH) no longer issues Certificates of Live Birth. When a request is made for a copy of a birth certificate, the DOH issues a Certification of Live Birth.”

The above is found here, under “Primary Documents”:

http://hawaii.gov/dhhl/applicants/appforms/appl…

There's also more about the birth certificate issue here:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/stateme…

Another Birther claim is that a birth certificate could have been applied for by ANY adult, and that one could easily have been granted for a baby born outside of the country.

“In fact, only the legal parents of a child—in this case, Barack Obama Sr. and Stanley Ann Dunham—can apply for a birth certificate.”

http://washingtonindependent.com/51652/some-mor…

“As for the theory that Obama's original birth certificate might show he was foreign-born, Okubo said the “Certification of Live Birth” would say so. Obama's does not. Again, it says HE WAS BORN IN HONOLULU.”

I think Rush Limbaugh blew up the oil rig so he could blame it on environmentalists for blowing it up to blame it on BP so BP could blame it on Halliburton and Halliburton could then blame it on Obama for not nuking it. It's just that simple.

There is one theory that b/c of the size of the field, a nuke could backfire and collapse the sea bed resulting in a 1/4 mile gash, gushing the entire reserve almost instantly and essentially killing of the oceans and as a result, eventually us with it.

This conspiracy site says the North Koreans did it, because the only way to stop it would be to use a nuke.
http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index1367.htm

“To the reason for North Korea attacking the Deepwater Horizon, these reports say, was to present US President Obama with an “impossible dilemma” prior to the opening of the United Nations Review Conference of the Parties to the Treat on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons (NPT) set to begin May 3rd in New York.

This “impossible dilemma” facing Obama is indeed real as the decision he is faced with is either to allow the continuation of this massive oil leak catastrophe to continue for months, or immediately stop it by the only known and proven means possible, the detonation of a thermonuclear device.”

Anyone think there could be any truth to this?

what part of “Russia has successfully done this before” do you not understand? It's been proven to work and people don't need to put forth money to prove it will work just to satisfy someone who's come to a clearly erroneous conclusion.

Sounds good to me, assuming they use a “clean” bomb. ;-) I don't suppose they'd need as huge a bomb as the Soviets used.

I wouldn't trust BP or any Oil company. Let the Russians give it a try. We live in Interesting Times.

Once again our Government is allowing the people who created the disaster to “fix” it.

Meanwhile, via TV ads, the President exhorts men to be better “Dads”. When will Mrs. Obama make a similar ad for “Moms”? I can't wait.

No

But, how would they get the bomb so far under the Earth? Surely they would not drop it down the drill hole?

Nothing wrong with glow-in-the-dark fish…

Actually, I'd say they might need a bit more due to the weight at that depth. Probably not more than 40-100kT though. It really depends on how far down the oil is on how it can be done. Look at the El Paso Natural Gas tests (plowshare). They used three in the 30kT range. That was not a successful test due to the activation of the gas itself, and possibly core residue. This isn't a case where they are going to be reopening the hole, or using it's effects for exploitation like that TREASONOUS company did (remember when people were dying in California in the rolling blackouts? YES El Paso Natural Gas is TREASONOUS, as was Enron, and probably more than both Williams of Tulsa, but this is another story)…

I would give that story a zero confidence factor.

More likely than the DPRK.

Unlike a billon gallons of crude oil. The suggestion (serious or un-) is to detonate the bomb UNDERGROUND, not in the water. Or we can sit and watch incompetent and corrupt BP struggle to fix the disaster they caused.

No.

And if you are wrong, what are you putting up? Other than your mouth?

At least I have thousands of test results backing up what I say.

What do you offer other than head in sand ostrich syndrome, refusing to even check out the declassified materials available to you.

Maybe you are an investor in Unocal? If so, I can see your aversion to stopping the chemical dumps in the gulf.

I read a suggestion that Obama/Senate Nationalize BP in the U.S., like Chavez did in Venezuela. That action by itself might cause an explosion big enough to close the oil volcano. Yay Socialism!

imho, even if this were possible, even the kid is well aware of the fact that his actions and intents are recognized by the rest of the world in such a way that even if we did use a nuke to do the job in a PEACEFUL use of nukes Plowshare-style, that he doesn't have a fucking leg to stand on.

Yes, I think the kid is nuts, even moreso than his forerunners. I personally think this kid wants to end the war militarily, his actions bear it out. Kim isn't calling the shots, and hasn't been for a couple of years, and it shows. The new kid is insane, and really does want war, and is going beyond the posturing of the Kims, above and beyond.

Regardless, what we see here is a right wing fraudster posting on the internet more of the same kind of bullshit he has a reputation for posting.

Too bad there are some idiots that believe the guy.

I personally think that the chance that this was the DPRK are nil. Shall we enumerate the reasons?

1). Where is the radar record?

2). Where is the sonar record, especially since Halliburton was ACTIVELY cementing the hole at the time of the blowout.

3). Where are the above and below water videos?? Such a rig is high security.

All of these would have evidence to support a terrorist or foreign power. None do.

Also, BP would have been the first to make the charge if it was.

Oh, and my assessment of the new kid in the DPRK is sad, but the facts support it.

This is what happens when a country is isolated and embargoed for multiple generations, it creates a paranoia against the outside world. And the DPRK has been the most isolated country on this planet, and is by far the most paranoid and aggressively so, and not necessarily out of line with some of it's positions, in fact on many fronts, it has a very legitimate gripe, and a serious weed up it's ass, a dangerous combination indeed.

Actually, they were opening the dams, the water around there should be low by now.

Expo News Network on May 5: Shanghai World Expo exhibition American Museum of the last wall especially within the walls – “people wall”, where more than 10,000 sheets of different age, occupation and place of birth of American show in the big picture screen, forming a series of Chinese American and Chinese visitors from the emotional ties.
http://www.bagsmkt.com/nike-air-max-1-87-c-1132…

http://www.shape-ups.org/sunglasses-sales-c-155…

This morning, the name “Chinese-American – the same family,” the exhibition's organizers, the Chinese American community 100 will introduce the project to the media, the Shanghai Municipal Committee, United Front Department, Yang Du, president of the Shanghai Chinese Overseas Friendship Association, the Shanghai World Expo will be the United States Music on behalf of Friends of the total cost, the U.S. Consul General in Shanghai and 100 people Kangbi executive director Tsui YANG Xu-lan, attended the seminar.

And what makes you think there would be a Tsunami?

Educate yourself. Don't just spout bullshit.

You must not be from the California area… Offshore earthquakes there are quite often in the seismic range of the average nuke test. Never have I in my life seen one generate a tsunami.

The S-Wave of any attempt at this wouldn't even come close to that needed for a tsunami.

Hell, the slides that happen in the silt bed all the time in the gulf don't even, and they are far more effective at displacing water suddenly and massively. Look at the sat pics again.

HOLY SHIT!!!!!!!!

Damn!!! I don’t think I’ve heard anyone smarter and more informed than you.

and don't forget, it is still a war. a cease-fire agreement is NOT an armistice or a peace treaty.

this is DEFINITELY not lost on the minds of those IN the DPRK.

And after Bush's threats and actions, I would have built a fucking nuke too, if I was in charge.

Kim was watching FOX News Channel regularly. He had a pirated sat dish and receiver. IMHO, FOX News and the Republican Party CONVINCED KIM HE HAD TO BUILD A BOMB!

intended result.

the republicans wanted kim with one, they had the intel he was watching, so they plainly convinced him he needed a bomb, and he built it.

the power of propaganda.

“Name one Tsunami caused by a deep underwater OPEN-WATER burst.

When you finish that task, where you will find no documented evidence of such, remember, this one would be 1000-2000 feet underground, besides being under a mile of seawater.

On the earthquake scale, let’s take recent tests as an example: The Pakistani tests had a P-Wave of 4.9 and an S-Wave of 3.6 for the first two tests, and a P-Wave of 4.3 and unmeasured S-Wave for the third test. The North Korean test had a P-wave of 4.2 and an unmeasured S-Wave.

Any other Californians here? Have you ever seen a Tsunami from an earthquake of that magnitude 200 miles offshore? I never have. Hell, you can work the numbers based on the P-Wave alone (which would be completely unsound reasoning, as it’s the S-Wave that creates Tsunami).”

HOLY SHIT!!!!

God damn it. Just when we thought that Capitalism and Wall Street were about
to rule the world, this had to happen. Now, once again, as usual, the Commies
have to come to the rescue.

So this thing spews out over 1.47 million gallons of oil a week ? So, roughly 170.53 million to go and you've got an oil tankers worth.

Excellent point!

Thank you for your long thoughtful comment on this subject. Naturally, I beg to differ.

Hawaii law requires them to disclose any documents used for a public statement like this. Hawaii law also allows for a b.c. to be applied for late or without a birth in Hawaii or any proof beyond the grandmother saying so. Obama is a dual national and that disqualifies him from being natural born.

Natural born unifies all forms of birth citizenship, parent and place of birth. Obama's father was never a US citizen and that gave Obama other citizenship tracks. That by itself means he is not natural born. That is what Vattel wrote and what the Founders relied on.

The book G. Washington checked out in 1789 and didn't return was an English translation of Vattel the Law of Nations which says natural born means two citizen parents at time of birth and born on the soil. Search Vattel Law of Nations Venus 1814. The Supreme Court cited Vattel on this point in 1814.

Jesus! Who TF are you? Some kind of seismic scientist? I mean how did you educate your self… the internet?

SSSO you're saying Arnold can't become president?

You're a wh0re.

Do you live in a coastal community that has any offshore oil wells? You are delusional if you think that British Petroleum or the surrounding political forces would ever let this alleged nuclear option occur in the Gulf of Mexico.
If they thought it was a workable option, why aren’t they pursuing it?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-f-kennedy-jr/sex-lies-and-oil-spills_b_564163.html

You are correct. They are now simply buying time, its their MO. They love the confusion, the more the better.

Robert S. Finnegan

What will they do if after bombing it the situation gets worse? I mean really bad, like 2 – 5 times worse. Try to seal it off with nukes? The Russians are nuts and could care less about the environment and the health and welfare of Russians and their industry is geared accordingly. Their country is one big toxic waste site.

Robert S. Finnegan

Arnold can't but Jesse can. Maybe we could find out the truth about some things.

This is an oil industry asset. If if non-military assets are used for political gain then I would point my finger at the oil industry itself, namely Cheney and his cronies. Notice he has not been spewing his vitriol lately. How much will this drive the price of oil upwards and will their losses be easily offset by this price increase? Let's call this Cheney's Inferno for he is certainly the devil himself.

This shows us why we should stop all immigration. We don't have the resources for immigrants.

Certainly you have bought into that myth. There are enough resources or the means to them in this country alone to feed and clothe the world. It's just that man (the ones in charge) and his limited vision does not lend to this truth. It simply isn't profitable. So they use fear, and people like you (unfortunately there are many) buy into that lie. Fear is a powerful controller of the masses. That said; what's wrong with someone immigrating to this country if they go through the proper channels. History 101; this country was founded by immigrants who committed genocide.

Just how many red states would we take out? Hmmm….

Definitely must have something to do with the muslim women dressing too provocatively.

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Who cares!!! My boyfriend thinks the same with me. He is eight years older than me, lol. We met online at Agelessmatch.com, a nice and free place for Younger Women and Older Men, or Older Women and Younger Men, to interact with each other. Maybe you wanna check out or tell your friends.

This can be achieved through conventional means, using Arleigh Burke class Aegis destroyers with torpedos or missiles with non-nuclear warheads. See: Boom and the Leak Stops. http://bit.ly/bKSq2f+

When all you have is a hammer . . . .

When all you have is a hammer . . . .

SEXUALLY REPRESSED immigrants who committed genocide. Fixed it for you :)

You’re right on regarding EnderW and his seemingly endless replies to himself which indicate he’s pretty much enamored with his own words regardless of the narcissism it exposes.

http://www.starbulletin.com/columnists/kokualin…

No, you can't obtain a “certificate of live birth” anymore.

The state Department of Health no longer issues copies of paper birth certificates as was done in the past, said spokeswoman Janice Okubo.

The department only issues “certifications” of live births, and that is the “official birth certificate” issued by the state of Hawaii, she said.

And, it's only available in electronic form.

Okubo explained that the Health Department went paperless in 2001.

Subject: Re: The truth about Obama's birth certificate: Born in the U.S.A.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article…

http://www.starbulletin.com/columnists/kokualin…

http://www.kitv.com/politics/17860890/detail.html

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in…
Janice Okubo, spokeswoman for Hawaii's State Department of Health, says that they only issue “certifications” of live births, which is the “official birth certificate” issued by the state of Hawaii.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The Health Department “DOES NOT HAVE A SHORT-FORM or LONG-FORM CERTIFICATE.” (emphasis added)

http://www.starbulletin.com/features/20090606_k…

From the Star Bulletin:

“The birth certificate form has been modified over the years and decades to conform to national standards and models,” she said.

Okubo also emphasized the certification form “contains all the information needed by all federal government agencies for transactions requiring a birth certificate.”

She added that the U.S. Supreme Court has recognized the state's current certification of live birth “as an official birth certificate meeting all federal and other requirements.”

Here's another statement from their government website supporting that long-forms are no longer available:

“Although original birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth) are preferred for their greater detail, the State Department of Health (DOH) no longer issues Certificates of Live Birth. When a request is made for a copy of a birth certificate, the DOH issues a Certification of Live Birth.”

The above is found here, under “Primary Documents”:

http://hawaii.gov/dhhl/applicants/appforms/appl…

There's also more about the birth certificate issue here:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/stateme…

Another Birther claim is that a birth certificate could have been applied for by ANY adult, and that one could easily have been granted for a baby born outside of the country.

“In fact, only the legal parents of a child—in this case, Barack Obama Sr. and Stanley Ann Dunham—can apply for a birth certificate.”

http://washingtonindependent.com/51652/some-mor…

“As for the theory that Obama's original birth certificate might show he was foreign-born, Okubo said the “Certification of Live Birth” would say so. Obama's does not. Again, it says HE WAS BORN IN HONOLULU.”

http://www.starbulletin.com/columnists/kokualin…

No, you can't obtain a “certificate of live birth” anymore.

The state Department of Health no longer issues copies of paper birth certificates as was done in the past, said spokeswoman Janice Okubo.

The department only issues “certifications” of live births, and that is the “official birth certificate” issued by the state of Hawaii, she said.

And, it's only available in electronic form.

Okubo explained that the Health Department went paperless in 2001.

Subject: Re: The truth about Obama's birth certificate: Born in the U.S.A.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article…

http://www.starbulletin.com/columnists/kokualin…

http://www.kitv.com/politics/17860890/detail.html

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in…
Janice Okubo, spokeswoman for Hawaii's State Department of Health, says that they only issue “certifications” of live births, which is the “official birth certificate” issued by the state of Hawaii.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The Health Department “DOES NOT HAVE A SHORT-FORM or LONG-FORM CERTIFICATE.” (emphasis added)

http://www.starbulletin.com/features/20090606_k…

From the Star Bulletin:

“The birth certificate form has been modified over the years and decades to conform to national standards and models,” she said.

Okubo also emphasized the certification form “contains all the information needed by all federal government agencies for transactions requiring a birth certificate.”

She added that the U.S. Supreme Court has recognized the state's current certification of live birth “as an official birth certificate meeting all federal and other requirements.”

Here's another statement from their government website supporting that long-forms are no longer available:

“Although original birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth) are preferred for their greater detail, the State Department of Health (DOH) no longer issues Certificates of Live Birth. When a request is made for a copy of a birth certificate, the DOH issues a Certification of Live Birth.”

The above is found here, under “Primary Documents”:

http://hawaii.gov/dhhl/applicants/appforms/appl…

There's also more about the birth certificate issue here:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/stateme…

Another Birther claim is that a birth certificate could have been applied for by ANY adult, and that one could easily have been granted for a baby born outside of the country.

“In fact, only the legal parents of a child—in this case, Barack Obama Sr. and Stanley Ann Dunham—can apply for a birth certificate.”

http://washingtonindependent.com/51652/some-mor…

“As for the theory that Obama's original birth certificate might show he was foreign-born, Okubo said the “Certification of Live Birth” would say so. Obama's does not. Again, it says HE WAS BORN IN HONOLULU.”

There is a saying – hindsight is 20 – 20 – anything that can go wrong will. Nobodys perfect. There should ALWAYS be 2 domes at the ready – extra booms also. This is logical. Agree? OH- as far as the Internet stories go, and the T V and the radio and the printed news – Its all the same as those papers at the supermarket check out asile, Thanks for the soapbox — Elmer J Fudd.

AVG turns up a malware threat when you click on “The European Union Times” link.

I really don’t have a problem with his self-love however filling up a thread
where normal people are discussing a threat to our country with mindless
facts from Wikipedia are juvenile at best. The endless replies to himself
point to bi-polar and paranoid schizophrenia and his obvious need for
attention is interesting, in that as soon as he gets it he immediately
attacks the source.

He needs to have someone take his keyboard away and send him back to school.

Robert S. Finnegan

It doesn't sound like that bad of a plan actually. There's a reason we use water to shield reactors and I'm sure they'd use a tiny nuke…

Not like the big ones; the U.S. has already detonated over 300 nuclear weapons at high altitudes, and over 700 underground and underwater, so it wouldn't even be nearly as bad as just one of those, not even close.

Fuck you fuckface.

Lets nuke texas instead

Old atlantic you are funny HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

I'm sure in due time as the facts surface we'll find out what caused this explosion but until then isn't it amazing all the “authorities and their theories” that jump in to offer their explanations!

In lue of the facts isn't amazing all the theories that fly up to explain what happened!

Hey, I've got an idea. Let's have open borders all over the world. Anyone
can go anywhere. Then we can all chip in and buy OldAtlantic a one way ticket
to Antarctica.

I mean, we're talking the English here…

You must not be from California, either that, or you never took an interest in what happens around you.

For instance, when I was 19, GS at Range Instrumentation Systems Department, Pacific Missile Test Center, where were you? Smoking crack?

I can give you some basic texts to read… A good tutorial is at the Oklahoma Geological Survey, they invented a lot of the seismic test ban verification techniques, and they also maintain the most extensive list of nuclear explosions out there, complete with seismic data on every test for which it is seismic records can be found, which is most of them.

just to stay on topic though, here are a few good ones:

USGS-OF08.1368-Electrical.Resistivity.and.Seismic.Surveys.at.the.Nevada.Test.Site-2007.pdf

for basic seismology:

Yin.Mora.Donnellan.and.Matsuura-Computational.Earthquake.Physics-Simulations.Analysis.and.Infrastructure-Part.1-2006.pdf

a couple of books in my collection, got many more…

Grace-Advanced.Blowout.and.Well.Control-1994.pdf

Ahmed.and.McKinney-Advanced.Reservoir.Engineering-2005.pdf

Ahmed-Reservoir.Engineering.Handbook-2nd.Edition-2000.pdf

Fanchi-Principles.of.Applied.Reservoir.Simulation-2nd.Edition-2000.pdf

Civan-Reservoir.Formation.Damage-Fundamentals.Modeling.Assessment.and.Mitigation-2000.pdf

Tiab.and.Donaldson-Petrophysics-Theory.and.Practice.of.Measuring.Reservoir.Fluid.and.Rock.Rock.Transport.Properties-2nd.Edition-2004.pdf

Nelson-Geologic.Analysis.of.Naturally.Fractured.Reservoirs-2nd.Edition-2001.pdf

Chin-Quantitative.Methods.in.Reservoir.Engineering-2002.pdf

DOD.and.ERDA-Glasstone.and.Dolan-The.Effects.of.Nuclear.Weapons-3rd.Edition-1977.pdf

Darley-Composition.and.Properties.of.Drilling.and.Completion.Fluids-5th.Edition-1988.pdf

Lapeyrouse-Formulas.and.Calculations.for.Drilling.Production.and.Workover-2nd.Edition-2002.pdf

Robinson-Shale.Shakers.and.Drilling.Fluid.Systems-1999.pdf

Ya know, I’m not afraid to say that the internet is a great place to learn, especially ever since the Republicans made the costs of attending a University prohibitively expensive for the average person.

I probably have the equivalent of six or seven graduate degrees by now.. Too broke to take the tests tho… Republican bosses who don’t like paying people…

Dude, instead of talking to yourself when you think of something else, edit your post.

Most Mexican-Americans I know have more LOYALTY to America in their big toenail than you have in your whole body, you TREASONOUS piece of shit.

You ever been to the Santa Barbara Channel?

“If they thought it was a workable option, why aren’t they pursuing it?”

because of idiots like you, plain and simple.

because the right stands to gain every day this is flowing.

Not drop…

The deepest declassified hole depth was right around a mile below ground. megaton range.

They get lowered in. Not dropped.

What is a Marine doing in Jakarta, anyway.

Do you actually believe BP’s harebrained scheme of that dome and diagonal hole is going to work? I don’t buy it. It might work on land, but that pipe will break off from it’s own weight pulling it down, it won’t be diagonal. How big is the target, and at what depth for BP’s idea???

So, you are saying that BP can do it?

Or are you against this because it involves the “N-Word”?

The nuke idea has far fewer variables, and is proven.

BP’s idea got pulled out of someone’s ass.

Embassy?

Oh, and I ain’t my old man, the 20 year Gunny. He’s a radical and he’s a fuckup.

I worked with better (and worse) Marines (DFAS), so I know they aren’t all nutcases like my dad.

I don’t hear you supporting any better idea, and only hear you knocking an idea with better probable success than what is already being planned.

Got a thing against civil engineering with nukes?

Nice try.

I posted a remedial reading list a little while ago in this thread. It might be a bit over your head.

Those books are all floating around somewhere. Not necessarily using my naming scheme. For instance, I had to assemble “Effects of..” from individual chapters available at Harvard.

I used to have quite a few data tapes of tests in a vault I once was in charge of, let’s see, names off the top of my head… Argus (1958) using old Sperry Univac metal tapes, Swordfish, Frigate Bird, etc….

Range Operations.

Got anything better than your mouth to put up, Mr. Unocal/BP?

I fully trust your buddies to fuck up. Hell look what they did to Afghanistan, do you know the intersections between Bush, Unocal, Delay, Kenny-Boy, Karazi, and BP? Can you say Afghanistan, and the pipeline running through it?

Obviously, you have faith in their ideas.

What do you know about nukes? Too lazy to do your own research, and relying on emotional arguments, imho…

You can find these at a usaf public site:

04/11/2008 05:47 PM 9,288,375 DOD-DNA-0000-DNA.6031F-Reference.Manual-Background.Materials.For.CONUS.Volumes.pdf
04/11/2008 05:54 PM 6,228,780 DOD-DNA-1945-DNA.6028F-Project.Trinity.pdf
04/11/2008 05:54 PM 36,767,027 DOD-DNA-1946-DNA.6032F-Operation.Crossroads.pdf
04/11/2008 05:53 PM 18,919,829 DOD-DNA-1948-DNA.6033F-Operation.Sandstone.pdf
04/11/2008 05:53 PM 7,353,435 DOD-DNA-1951-DNA.6022F-Operation.Ranger-Shots.Able.to.Fox.pdf
04/11/2008 05:53 PM 12,076,418 DOD-DNA-1951-DNA.6023F-Operation.Buster.Jangle.pdf
04/11/2008 05:53 PM 8,484,659 DOD-DNA-1951-DNA.6024F-Operation.Buster.Jangle-The.First.Five.Shots-Able.to.Easy.pdf
04/11/2008 05:52 PM 1,740,272 DOD-DNA-1951-DNA.6025F-Operation.Buster.Jangle-The.Final.Shots-Sugar.and.Uncle.pdf
04/11/2008 05:52 PM 19,492,730 DOD-DNA-1951-DNA.6034F-Operation.Greenhouse.pdf
04/11/2008 05:52 PM 2,857,165 DOD-DNA-1951.to.1958-DNA.6030F-Safety.Experiments.pdf
04/11/2008 05:52 PM 16,225,128 DOD-DNA-1952-DNA.6019F-Operation.Tumbler.Snapper.pdf
04/11/2008 05:52 PM 17,995,304 DOD-DNA-1952-DNA.6020F-Operation.Tumbler.Snapper-The.First.Shots-Able.to.Dog.pdf
04/11/2008 05:51 PM 10,969,660 DOD-DNA-1952-DNA.6021F-Operation.Tumbler.Snapper-The.Final.Shots-Easy.to.How.pdf
04/11/2008 05:51 PM 17,711,950 DOD-DNA-1952-DNA.6036F-Operation.Ivy.pdf
04/11/2008 05:51 PM 13,076,980 DOD-DNA-1953-DNA.6014F-Operation.Upshot.Knothole.pdf
04/11/2008 05:51 PM 6,396,260 DOD-DNA-1953-DNA.6015F-Operation.Upshot.Knothole-Shot.Badger.pdf
04/11/2008 05:51 PM 5,720,309 DOD-DNA-1953-DNA.6016F-Operation.Upshot.Knothole-Shot.Simon.pdf
04/11/2008 05:51 PM 12,813,131 DOD-DNA-1953-DNA.6017F-Operation.Upshot.Knothole-The.First.Five.Shots-Annie.to.Ray.pdf
04/11/2008 05:50 PM 14,772,536 DOD-DNA-1953-DNA.6018F-Operation.Upshot.Knothole-The.Final.Four.Tests-Encore.to.Climax.pdf
04/11/2008 05:50 PM 39,520,352 DOD-DNA-1954-DNA.6035F-Operation.Castle.pdf
04/11/2008 05:49 PM 2,866,793 DOD-DNA-1955-DNA.6000F-Operation.Wigwam.pdf
04/11/2008 05:49 PM 4,665,117 DOD-DNA-1955-DNA.6009F-Operation.Teapot.pdf
04/11/2008 05:49 PM 2,189,212 DOD-DNA-1955-DNA.6010F-Operation.Teapot-The.First.Five.Shots-Wasp.to.Hornet.pdf
04/11/2008 05:49 PM 860,698 DOD-DNA-1955-DNA.6011F-Operation.Teapot-Shot.Bee.pdf
04/11/2008 05:49 PM 1,268,824 DOD-DNA-1955-DNA.6012F-Operation.Teapot-Shot.Apple.2.pdf
04/11/2008 05:49 PM 3,329,342 DOD-DNA-1955-DNA.6013F-Operation.Teapot-The.Final.Shots-Ess.to.Met.pdf
04/11/2008 05:49 PM 23,466,957 DOD-DNA-1956-DNA.6037F-Operation.Redwing.pdf
04/11/2008 05:49 PM 1,317,946 DOD-DNA-1957-DNA.6001F-Operation.Plumbob-Shot.Galileo.pdf
04/11/2008 05:49 PM 3,055,779 DOD-DNA-1957-DNA.6002F-Operation.Plumbob-Shot.Hood.pdf
04/11/2008 05:49 PM 1,646,229 DOD-DNA-1957-DNA.6003F-Operation.Plumbob-Shot.Priscilla.pdf
04/11/2008 05:49 PM 2,486,313 DOD-DNA-1957-DNA.6004F-Operation.Plumbob-Shot.Smoky.pdf
04/11/2008 05:49 PM 6,981,326 DOD-DNA-1957-DNA.6005F-Operation.Plumbob.pdf
04/11/2008 05:48 PM 2,613,832 DOD-DNA-1957-DNA.6006F-Operation.Plumbob-The.Mid.Series.Shots-Diablo.to.Franklin.Prime.pdf
04/11/2008 05:48 PM 1,252,031 DOD-DNA-1957-DNA.6007F-Operation.Plumbob-The.Final.Eight.Shots-Wheeler.to.Morgan.pdf
04/11/2008 05:48 PM 2,186,438 DOD-DNA-1957-DNA.6008F-Operation.Plumbob-The.First.Four.Shots-Boltzmann.to.Wilson.pdf
04/11/2008 05:48 PM 14,124,052 DOD-DNA-1958-DNA.6026F-Operation.Hardtack.Phase.2.pdf
04/11/2008 05:48 PM 37,398,124 DOD-DNA-1958-DNA.6038F-Operation.Hardtack.Phase.1.pdf
04/11/2008 05:48 PM 8,678,868 DOD-DNA-1958-DNA.6039F-Operation.Argus.pdf
04/11/2008 05:47 PM 31,063,631 DOD-DNA-1962-DNA.6040F-Operation.Dominic.Phase.1.pdf
04/11/2008 05:47 PM 14,339,428 DOD-DNA-1962-DNA.6041F-Operation.Dominic.Phase.2-Little.Feller.1.to.Little.Feller.2.pdf
04/11/2008 05:54 PM 8,624,918 DOD-DNA-9999-DNA.6029F-Plowshare-Gnome.and.Sedan.pdf
12/15/2008 10:11 PM 7,222,888 DOD-IG-20081213-Hard.Lessons-The.Iraq.Reconstruction.Experience.pdf
04/01/2008 07:05 PM 3,566,503 DOD-IG-Report.H06L102270308-20070720-Alleged.Misconduct.By.DOD.Officials.Concerning.Christian.Embassy.pdf

oops, forgot to cut out the non-relevant two at the end there… good thing i didn’t get as far as the IG report on the embassy guards…it mighta pissed you off.

Hell, the Caspian Sea has a far more complex geology…

Buryakovsky-Petroleum.Geology.of.the.South.Caspian.Basin-2001.pdf

America has never tested underground deep underwater. we have though tested deep underground, and deep underwater (at submarine depths, remember, Swordfish and Wahoo were strategic military tests. testing on the ocean floor would have not served the purpose of those tests).

The problem isn’t cake, but, look at the alternatives being suggested, and even slated for operational use in this problem. BP wants to drill a diagonal hole into the hole at sea. The target is how wide? 18 inches? 24? 36? and they intend to diagonally suspend a pipe all the way down, hit a target how wide at touchdown, and then drill to a point that at the MOST has to be three feet or less wide, how many feet underground? I bet I win the powerball before that works.

On the other hand, some straight holes, and a medium depth would move enough earth with small devices to close the hole for hundreds, if not thousands of feet.

Can anyone find any gulf basin geology texts floating around the net? I’m talking books written by the players, not newbie websites.

The only question I would have is the positioning of the resorvoir in relation to the head of the hole, and any adjacent pockets of oil or gas.

Odds are the basic geology is known enough to make educated guesses. They made one when they spent billions to make the hole to begin with. The geology is written up somewhere,

In fact, I was thinking about this earlier. If they ringed it, put in some small devices (under 10kT) close enough to move the earth…let me clarify that statement, by earth, i mean rock mud, etc, not the planet (there are idiots posting here that will take “earth” out of context, based on their attempts to discredit this idea, and the emotional arguments they are making rather than fact based ones, hell, now they resort to personal attacks on me for supporting the idea. Are they on the BP payroll?).

I’d like to hear DOE, USGS, and NOAA publically weigh in on this. They have the personnel with the experience.

Maybe even USN and CIA as well. They have experience that could prove useful. Why did Reagan know everything the Soviet Military knew BEFORE most of the people who were intended to know it? Ask Robert Ballard, Clive Cussler, Tom Clancy, and others who participated and/or were privy.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article3994955.ece
http://www.cdnn.info/news/industry/i080602a.html
http://www.tampabay.com/news/humaninterest/article914855.ece
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/transcripts/2602subsecrets.html

America has the experience to pull this off, and to send a bill, even for the Plutonium to BP.

Atomic bulldozing, I must admit, Eisenhower and Kennedy had a great idea.

Project Gnome, conducted on December 10, 1961 in a salt bed 24 mi (39 km) southeast of Carlsbad, New Mexico. The explosion released 3.1 kilotons (13 TJ) of energy yield at a depth of 361 meters (1,184 ft) which resulted in the formation of a 170 ft (52 m) diameter, 80 ft (24 m) high (52 by 25 m) cavity.

The final PNE blast took place on 17 May 1973, under Fawn Creek, 76.4 km north of Grand Junction, Colorado. Three 30 kiloton detonations took place simultaneously at depths of 1,758, 1,875, and 2,015 meters. It was the third nuclear explosion experiment intended to stimulate the flow of natural gas from “tight” formation gas fields. Industrial participants included the El Paso Natural Gas Company for the Gasbuggy test; Austral Oil Company; CER Geonuclear Corporation for the Rulison test; and CER Geonuclear Corporation for the Rio Blanco test.

This is my land. I intend to cling to God and guns and the land that Founding Stock Americans cleared out of a wilderness in manifest destiny.

The laugh is on you. Men's median wages are the same as in 1973 from immigration. Your lords laugh at you for supporting their wealth at your own expense.

Why is California bankrupt from your immigrants?

You laugh as you are the stooge of those who laugh at you.

Bloomberg laughs last. His generation is the greatest generation of his people because they took what the Founding Stock Americans made.

https://www.osti.gov/opennet/reports/plowshar.pdf

May 1964 The U.S. Atomic Energy Commission released a policy
statement and projected charges for Plowshare thermonuclear
explosives for use by industry in conducting studies of
economic and technical feasibility:
10 Kilotons – $350,000
2 Megatons – $600,000

—-

I wonder what the cost would be today???

Five bucks says it’s cheaper than the dome and diagonal hole idea…

February 14, 1967 Treaty for the prohibition of nuclear weapons in Latin America
was signed in Mexico City. The treaty establishes Latin
America as an area in which the participating nations will not
manufacture or otherwise acquire nuclear weapons
(explosives), but permits these nations to collaborate with third
parties such as the U.S. for the purpose of carrying out nuclear
explosions for peaceful purposes.

March 5, 1970 Ratification of the Treaty for the Nonproliferation of Nuclear
Weapons by the U.S. was put into force. Article V of the Treaty
pertains to making available to non-nuclear-weapons states any
benefits from peaceful uses of nuclear explosions.

March 16, 1970 The Rulison Court decision by the U.S. District Court for the
District of Colorado (Judge Alfred A. Arraj) ruled that: ” the
flaring phase of Project Rulison does not present a threat to
public health and safety; the AEC has planned its activities and
is carrying them out with all due regard for health and safety;
and radiation dose from flaring will be within radiation
standards.”

May 28, 1976 The Treaty on Underground Nuclear Explosives for Peaceful
Purposes was signed by the U.S. and the Soviet Union.

Does anyone know the full name of that Treaty? Was it deposited with the Secretary-General?

I cannot find it in the CTC collection….

http://treaties.un.org/Pages/CTCs.aspx

http://www.un.org/disarmament/WMD/Nuclear/pdf/NPTEnglish_Text.pdf

I AM FROM CALIFORNIA !!!

“Never in your life have you seen one generate a tsunami”, but an “educated person” such as yourself would know that human lifespan is incredibly short in terms of the world and it’s natural disasters. Surely you know there HAS BEEN tsunamis that have hit the CA coast !?!?

How about a large displacement of water causing a tsunami, genius ?? Why don’t you educate yourself ? – Remember, this would probably be done beneath the surface of the water, not on top of it, which would cause far more displacement !!

What about the nuclear bombs fallout effect on the Gulf & it’s wildlife?

You also must know that the Gulf of Mexico isn’t nearly as deep as the Pacific Ocean off the CA coast, don’t you ?

-

Wouldn't it be funny if the well was near an unknown fault line?

Wouldn't it be funny if the well was near an unknown fault line?

A DDG isn't made for this, nor are the torpedoes and missiles in stock.

Besides, to be effective, such a nuke would have to be an underground burst. Nothing we have can get one there on a missile or torpedo, nor can it get it where it needs to be once at the bottom.

No, this will require drilling, just like in all underground bursts.

And where did your family come from, OldAsswipe?

No, Men's median wages are at that level because everytime wages increase right wingers throw fits.

If Republicans own the businesses, who do we blame?

California is broke because Republicans know nothing about managing a Government.

Cut taxes some more! Maybe it'll fix the problems that tax cuts caused!

My grandfather would have gladly burned you alive with napalm, just like he did your Nazi pals.

Where have you been? Capitalism failed. It's on life support, and the right wing wants to pull the plug. Gee, I wonder why?

Dems, buy guns now, they mean it!

HERE'S THE SCIENCE !!

The possible environmental effects of underground testing include short-term and longterm effects. At the time of the explosion, fracturing of the atoll surface triggers landslides, tsunamis (tidal waves), and earthquakes. There is also evidence that radionuclides have vented to the environment. Possible long-term effects include leakage of fission products to the biosphere and transfer of dissolved plutonium from the lagoon to the ocean and the food chain.

Physical Damage to the Reef
The upper layer of the atoll is made up of reef carbonates, mainly limestone. This limestone cover is approximately 300 meters in the south of the atoll, increasing to 430 – 550 meters in the north. The upper part of this limestone layer is undolomitized and comprises porous coral debris, approximately 125 meters thick. The lower part is dolomitized and therefore quite compact.
This limestone layer is separated from the underlying volcanic material by a transitional zone of variable thickness, composed mainly of weathered clays. It can vary in thickness from 40 to 45 meters below the atoll to a mere 50 centimeters or even nothing beneath most of the lagoon.
The clay zone is impervious. The underlying volcanics are initially aerial volcanics, which then change to more homogeneous submarine volcanics at greater depths.
Each scientific mission to Moruroa has described severe impairment of the integrity of at least the carbonate part of the atoll. The damage includes fissures in the limestone and surface subsidences of large areas of the atoll. Fissures are propagated by the testing, a result of the cumulative compacting of the limestone. Fissuring serves to increase lateral and vertical water transport in the carbonate body of the atoll,(24) possibly resulting in more rapid leakage of the fission products. The French authorities claim that no new damage is occurring because the tests are no longer conducted under the reef crown but under the lagoon.(25) This claim is contradicted by underwater observations of the Cousteau mission, which discovered recently fallen noncolonized limestone blocks, suggesting that tests were carried out in the months immediately preceding their arrival and that on-going tests are still damaging the reef. (26)

Triggering of Landslides, Tsunamis and Earthquakes
At least one major test-related landslide and consequent Tsunami in Moruroa, on July 25, 1979. Apparently, the 120kiloton weapon, which was supposed to be lowered into a shaft of 800 meters, got stuck at a depth of 400 meters and could not be dislodged. The French authorities decided to explode the device anyway. This explosion resulted in a major underwater landslide of at least one million cubic meters of coral and rock and created a cavity, probably 140 meters in diameter. The underwater landslide produced a major tidal wave comparable to a tsunami, which spread through the Tuamotu Archipelago and injured people on the southern part of Moruroa Atoll. (27)
French authorities initially denied that any mishap had occurred and declared that the tidal wave was of natural origin, but in a publication in 1985 they did acknowledge “the accident of 25 July 1979″.(28)

Venting of Gaseous and Volatile Fission Products
Unusual concentrations of short-lived iodine131 in marine organisms and krypton 85 and tritium in air or water indicate that venting has occurred.
The scientists of the Australia, New Zealand and Papua New Guinea Mission in 1983 were authorized to carry out a single experiment in situ at Moruroa. Their measurements demonstrated a high level of tritium in the interstitial air of the surface terrain. The measured tritium levels were 500 Becquerels per liter while the expected concentration due to atmospheric fallout should have been in the range of 0.2 Becquerels per liter. The report of this mission offers two explanations for these extremely high unexpected tritium levels: either venting of gaseous tritium directly from underground cavities or a faster ground water flow rate than admitted. (29)
The venting explanation appears to be more likely, based on findings of Cousteau mission in 1987. Just days after a test, iodine 131 (half life of 8.05 days) was found in all sediment samples. The same mission measured radioactivity of plankton, which is an even better indicator of venting. In plankton, they found an iodine131 concentration of 22,000 picocuries per kilogram, by far the strongest radioactivity found during their mission. The Cousteau report stated that iodine-131 most likely reached the surface via the test bore. The report overlooked the fact that the spot with the maximum iodine131 concentration in sediment was the farthest away from the test site. Nevertheless, because of the short halflife of this radioisotope, its presence could only be attributed to a recent emission. Although authorities at the testing center claimed that this was due to an accidental leak of exceptional character during post-test drilling for purposes of monitoring, the Cousteau Mission was not able to verify that directly.(30) In any case, even such a posttest valve decoupling accident constitutes a venting phenomenon. The fact that the French did not report this venting accident until forced to do so by having to explain the presence of iodine131 indicates that venting may have been more common than the French nuclear authorities have so far acknowledged.
In summary, two scientific missions, on which major restrictions were imposed, were still able, independently of each other, to find typical indicators of short-term venting.

Medium and Long-term Leakage of Fission Products to the Biosphere
According to a model formulated by Hochstein and O'Sullivan (1985), an underground nuclear explosion in rock saturated with seawater can set up an artificial geothermal system. The heat stored in the explosion chamber is on the order of 10E12 calories per kiloton of yield. In addition, heat generation due to radioactive decay goes on after the explosion of fission bombs, at a rate of about 595 calories per second per kiloton of yield. After the explosion, seawater enters the chamber and is heated by about 25o – 50o C by both stored and newly generated heat. The heated seawater dissolves the glassy materials, liberating the nuclear waste.
At the same time, the heated seawater sets up an artificial geothermal system, which transfers the dissolved nuclear waste slowly upwards through the extended chimney. While the concentration of the radionuclides decreases by diffusion and absorption, the heated cell transferring the radionuclides moves upwards with a speed of about 10 meters per year, according to the computer simulation of Hochstein and O'Sullivan. Under the assumptions of this model, radionuclides from a depth of around 500 meters would reach the cracks of the lagoon in less than 50 years instead of the 500 to 1,000 years assumed by the French authorities.(31)
A first hint that the model of Hochstein and O'Sullivan might be correct was the discovery of cesium-134 by the Cousteau Mission in 1987.(32) In December 1990, too, Greenpeace found cesium-134 in plankton collected outside the 12-mile exclusion zone around Moruroa.(33) While the measured concentrations of cesium-137 are consistent with the consequences of local and global atmospheric tests, the concentrations of cesium134 are less explicable. Global atmospheric fallout does not contain cesium134, which is produced by the addition of one neutron to the nucleus of stable cesium-133.
A recent study reviewing the Cousteau Mission's water samples comes to the conclusion that the measured concentrations of cesium-134 are attributable to the underground tests and that only leakage can explain the presence of this radionuclide in Moruroan waters. This study also attempted to identify the source of the leakage by matching the coordinates of French underground tests with the coordinates of the places where samples were taken. Leakage is occurring even faster than initially predicted by the model of Hochstein and O'Sullivan (which assumed equal permeability in all directions), probably only six years after a test.(34) Venting, which happens occasionally, may open pathways for more rapid leakage than predicted by the model.
The 120 underground tests conducted at Moruroa have in effect turned it into a longterm waste dump. The total amount of plutonium-239 from these tests and the three at Fangataufa is about 18,450 curies, assuming 150 curies per test. Based on a rough estimate of 2.5 megatons total yield of underground tests, the amount of cesium127 and strontium90 dispersed would have been 400,000 curies and 250,000 curies respectively. About three-fourths of the cesium and strontium still remain underground and some may have found its way into the lagoons and ocean. As a repository for nuclear wastes from underground testing, Moruroa is less than ideal. Natural barriers play the most important role in the confinement of nuclear waste.(35) Consequently, a planned storage site should meet very strict criteria including exclusion of water, lack of natural fractures or fissures, and a high absorption of radionuclides. According to these criteria, Moruroa is a very poor choice: the geological structure of Moruroa is water-saturated; there are natural fractures as well as a veritable network of fissures due to the explosions. These fissures affect the volcanic layer. Moreover, the absorption coefficient for the basalt of Moruroa as estimated by the French authorities is very low.
In conclusion, Moruroa Atoll is a very poor site for storing nuclear waste of any type. If certain confinement criteria are considered necessary for the storage of waste from nuclear power stations, the same would be necessary for the storage of waste as a consequence of nuclear explosions. The discovery of cesium-134 indicates only the beginning of longterm leakage from the underground “storage” sites.
Transfer of dissolved plutonium from the lagoon to the ocean as a consequence of poor waste management.
Radioactive materials deposited on Moruroa have found their way into the lagoon. The land area of Moruroa has been used to store radioactive waste (including metal scrap, wood, plastic bags and clothing) in a huge heap on the north coast of the atoll, which covers 30,000 square meters. In addition, on July 21, 1966 a bomb broke apart on the surface of Moruroa, dispersing plutonium239. This plutonium 239 was confined to the area by fixing it in place with a layer of bitumen. Moruroa was also used as a safety trial area.(36) (A safety trial area is a test to check whether an atomic bomb will explode on impact with a hard surface -as in the event of a plane crash. In the case of a “safe” bomb, or a “successful” safety trial, the impact does not cause a nuclear detonation but breaks apart the bomb, scattering plutonium-239 about the site.) Cyclones hit Moruroa mainly in 1981, washing radioactive waste from the coral rim into the lagoon, including the plutonium-impregnated bitumen.
Due to these waste management practices, the sediment of the lagoon contains an estimated 20 kilograms of plutonium. At the time the Australian, New Zealand and Papua New Guinea Mission visited Moruroa, plutonium239 concentrations in the air were about 4 times greater than in continental France. The Mission estimated that about 20 gigabecquerels of plutonium from the sediment of the lagoon are transported annually to ocean waters.(37)
This is consistent with findings of the Cousteau Mission that concentrations of plutonium in the lagoon entrance are about 10 times greater than in the lagoon itself. They also stated that the observed concentrations in the sediment and in the water are much too high to be attributed to global atmospheric fallout and are therefore of local origin and due to remobilization from sedimentary deposits.
There is evidence that plutonium-239 is accumulating in the food chain. While the concentration of plutonium-239 and plutonium 240 are around .01 picocuries/liter in the water of the lagoon, the respective concentrations for dry sediment are 1,1OO picocuries/kilogram and for dry plankton 9,700 picocuries/kilogram. (Enrichment can be found for cesium 137, also, where the respective concentrations are 0.14 picocuries/liter, 3.5 picocuries/kilogram and 70 picocuries/kilogram.)(38)

Ciguatera Fish Poisoning Due To Changes in Reef Ecology
Ciguatera fish poisoning, discussed in Chapter 5, is a major public health problem in the South pacific, with nutritional, social, and economic implications. The annual average incidence for the South Pacific area is around 200 cases per 100,000 population per year, but incidences as high as 20,700 per 100,000 population per year are reported for the Gambier Islands.
A review of the epidemiology of ciguatera in French Polynesia from 1960 to 1984 clearly demonstrates a general flare-up in ciguatera, with more than 24,000 cases among a population that grew from 84,500 in 1962 to 174,000 by mid1985. The incidence rose dramatically through the 1960s, peaking from 1972 to 1975 at 1,200 per 100,000, a tenfold increase over the 1960 figure.(39) Some of this increase may be due to improved case reporting, but this has never been presented as a major reason for the increase. In the areas most affected, the eastern Tuamotu, Gambier, and Marquesas Archipelagos, the incidence in the 1980s remains at high levels.
The most important cause of ciguatera outbreaks is the disturbance of the sensitive ecology of the coral reef. Natural events, such as storms, earthquakes and tidal waves, can disturb reef ecology, as can human activities. Nuclear test explosions and the construction of supporting infrastructures have been linked with ciguatera outbreaks.(40) For example, the Tuamotu Archipelago was more or less free of ciguatera before the early 1960's. Epidemiological studies show that in parallel with the installation and running of the test facilities, repeated outbreaks occurred. This is the case for the Hao Atoll (staging base for the testing since 1965, first ciguatera outbreak in 1966), the Gambier Islands (construction of military facilities in 1967, first outbreak in 1968) and Moruroa Atoll (highest density of Gambierdiscus toxicus after the Gambier Islands in 1981 ).(41)
A study by the US Atomic Energy Commission showed no correlation between radioactivity and ciguatoxicity in fish.(42) It is most likely that ancillary military activities linked to the nuclear testing facilities, like runway construction, waste dumping, ship decontamination, are causing ciguatoxicity by disturbance of reef ecology.

References
1) Atkinson, H.R., et al., “Report of a New Zealand, Australian, and Papua New Guinea Scientific Mission to Moruroa Atoll, October-November 1983,” Wellington: New Zealand Ministry of Foreign Affairs (1984); Cousteau Foundation Scientific Mission of the Calypso at the Moruroa Nuclear Test Site, (official translation by External Assessments Bureau, Ministry of External Relations and Trade, Wellington), Paris (November 1988); Burrows, A.S., Norris, R.S., Arkin, W.M., Cochran, T.B., “French Nuclear Testing 1960 1988,” Natural Resources Defense Council, Washington (1989).
2) Atkinson, et al. 1984, Cousteau Foundation 1988, Burrows et al. 1989. 3) Swedish National Defense Research Institute. 1987. Computer printout of nuclear explosions. Hagsfors Observatory; Smith, W., “Underground Nuclear Explosions in the Tuamotu Archipelago,” Geophysics Dept., DSIR, Wellington, 1989.
4) Burrows et al, 1989 and May, John. 1989. “The Greenpeace Book of the Nuclear Age.” Pantheon Books.
5) Direction Des Centres d'Experimentations Nucleaires. 1985. Dossier No. 1: Organization et Fonctionnement des Centers d'Experimentations, Nucleaires, Paris.
6) Greenpeace New Zealand. 1985. “French Polynesia: The Nuclear Tests – a Chronology,” Auckland, New Zealand; Hughes, S., European Parliament Session, Document A2 0283/88, (1 December 1988); Burrows et al. 1989.
7) Danielsson, B. 1984. “Under the Cloud of Secrecy: The French Nuclear Tests in the South-Eastern Pacific,” Ambio, 13 (5-6).
8) Burrows et al. 1989.
9) Tazieff, H. 1982. Rapport d'Haroun Tazieff sur l'ensemble de la Mission Scientifique en Polynesie Francaise, Paris.
10) Atkinson et al. 1984.
11) Cousteau Foundation 1988.
12) Association Des Medicins Francais pour la Prevention de la Guerre Nucleaire. 1990. Les essais nucleaires francais en Polynesie: mission d'etudes et de recontres, 9 16 avril 1990. Medicine at Guerre Nucleaire, vol. 5, no. 3.
13) May 1989, p. 132.
14) Hughes 1988.
15) French Atomic Energy Commission. 1988. Memorandum of the Directorate for Nuclear Test Centers, August 25, 1988. Villecoublay, France.
16) French Atomic Energy Commission.1988.
17) Atkinson et al. 1984.
18) French Atomic Energy Commission 1988.
19) Danielsson 1984.
20) Burrows et al. 1989 and Direction Des Centres d'Experimentations Nucleaires. 1985.
21) Confederation Francaise Democratique du Travail. 1981. Contamination de Moruroa. Statement by CFDT, Section BIII, Paris.
22) Burrows et al. 1989.
23) Atkinson et al. 1984.
24) Atkinson et al. 1984.
25) Direction Des Centres d'Experimentations Nucleaires. 1985.
26) Cousteau Foundation 1988.
27) Tazieff 1982, Atkinson et al. 1984, and Cousteau Foundation 1988.
28) Direction Des Centres d'Experimentations Nucleaires. 1985.
29) Atkinson et al. 1984.
30) Cousteau Foundation 1988.
31) Hochstein, M.P. and M.J. O'Sullivan. 1985. Geothermal Systems created by Underground Nuclear Testing, Proceedings 7th New Zealand Geothermal Workshop. 32) Cousteau Foundation 1988, and Cousteau, J. 1990. Assessment of artificial radionuclides issued from French nuclear bomb testing at Moruroa (French Polynesia), Environmental Technology, vol. 11.
33) Leland, B. 1990. “Greenpeace finds trace radioactivity near Moruroa.” PeaceNet, Dec. 10.
34) Buske, N. 1990. Cesium 134 at Moruroa – Review of the Calypso Water Samples, SEARCH Technical Services, Davenport.
35) Marsily, G., E. Lepoux, A. Barbreau, J. Margat. 1977. “Nuclear Waste Disposal: Can the Geologist Guarantee Isolation?” Science.
36) Confederation Francaise Democratique du Travail. 1981.
37) Atkinson et al. 1984.
38) Cousteau Foundation 1989
39) Bagnis, R., et al. 1985. Epidemiology of Ciguatera in French Polynesia from 1960 to 1984, in Gabrie, C. and Salvat, B., eds., Proceedings of the Fifth International Coral Reef Congress, Tahiti, Vol. 4, Moorea: Antenne Museumephe.
40) Ruff, T.A. 1989. Ciguatera in the Pacific: a link with military activities. “Lancet,” vol. 1, no. 8631, pp. 201-205.
41) Inoue, A. 1983. Distribution of a Toxic Dinoflagellate, Gambierdiscus toxicus, in French Polynesia, Memoirs of the Kagoshima University Research Centre for the South Pacific, vol.4, no. 1, pp. 918.
42) Helfrich, P. 1960. A Study of the Possible Relationship Between Radioactivity and Toxicity in Fishes from the Central Pacific. U.S. Atomic Energy Commission, Technical Information Service Publication No. TID-5748, Oak Ridge, Tenn

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i would tend to believe that a nuclear bomb wouldn’t cause a tsunami, let’s be real here and think before you spit silly statements out, i think a small nuclear bomb is our best bet, or I guess we can let that thing spill out for the next three months and see what the gulf looks like at the end of summer while all the sea turtles are dead and fishing off of florida is no longer an option.

For a fucker that loves himself you are incredibly stupid. The only Marines
here are the Marine Security Guard Detachment at the U.S. Embassy, and me, a
retired gunman. What the fuck difference does it make anyways? Jesus, you
are about a pedantic little fuck.

I don’t think anything is going to work, what they are doing now is just for
show and anyone that talks of a nuke should be locked up. Debating it is
useless, and makes you look dumber than dogshit. Put that oversize brain to
work figuring out what happens in the aftermath, it’s going to be one hell
of a mess, already is. The Gulf will never recover in our lifetime. The
area is going to be wide open to entrepreneurs and just about anyone looking
for a job.

And I am going to be kicked back here, watching it all go down on Al
Jeezera. I have already put my time in, dove the EXXON Valdez spill, and
ths is supposed to be 100 times worse.

Robert S. Finnegan
United States Marine Corps
rsfinnegan@gmail.com

not at the moment, but I have. Of course BP wouldn’t consider this an option, and it isn’t because of any perceived environmental impact. I mean, they hired Halliburton to do repairs in the first place. Halliburton et cie are known to put self interest above all other concerns, and by hiring them, BP shows where they stand, too.

Just ignore Old Troll. He gets paid by the comment…

Putin would nuke his mother-in-law if he thought she was a being a nuisance.

PERFECT, first the hurricain, then the oil, then a nuke and THEN our very own homegrown Gojira rages out of the Gulf Coast and stops out whatever is left.

Id like to say; that's what happens when you get anal warts and don't do anything about it.

Thought cross my mind, but what the hell do I know?

Here's a novel idea…why not park some oil tankers in the area and pump the oil off the surface directly into the tankers, then take it to the nearest refinery? That wouldn't take care of all the leaking oil, but there are pumps out there that could easily handle 210,000 gallons a day if there were enough tankers on hand. Worth a shot, and it only took me 20 seconds to think of it, which is a more productive way of wasting one's energy than arguing about whether or not a nuke would make a tsunami. I mean, they won't nuke it, so who cares about the impossible side-effects?

[...] Russian paper suggests ‘nuclear explosion’ could cap gulf oil geyser Komsomoloskaya Pravda, Russia's best-selling daily publication, has an idea: Why not just nuke it? During the Soviet years, Russia's communists had to deal with numerous oil disasters and on five different occasions they employed controlled, underground nuclear blasts to quickly solve the problem. [The] underground explosion moves the rock, presses on it, and, in essence, squeezes the well’s channel," Pracda reported. "It’s so simple, in fact, that the Soviet Union, a major oil exporter, used this method five times to deal with petrocalamities," added Moscow reporter Julia Ioffe, writing for True/Slant. "The first happened in Uzbekistan, on September 30, 1966 with a blast 1.5 times the strength of the Hiroshima bomb and at a depth of 1.5 kilometers. KP also notes that subterranean nuclear blasts were used as much as 169 times in the Soviet Union to accomplish fairly mundane tasks like creating underground storage spaces for gas or building canals." [...]

The nuclear bomb idea is officially…not terrible.

The environmental impact will be really slight compared with the oil spill.

Most importantly, it has a history of working — that's important.

Or, what about a very large conventional bomb, a Daisy Cutter?

Respondents seem to forget that 'The Kremlin' seriously considered digging a canal with the help of small nuclear bombs in Tajikistan in 1964. The canal was meant to drain a huge lake that came to existence behind a 200 meter high dam in the river Zeravshan. The dam was the result of an earthquake that toppled parts of a mountain into the river. Sudden breakdown of the dam would be a very serious threat to the city of Samarkand in Uzbekistan, some 200 miles (!) down the river. Heavy rainfall made the situation even more dangerous. Acting quickly was very important. I do not know if the Soviets dug the canal. It was already a big thing that news about the imminent disaster reached the western world at all.

I’m a little concerned about any disturbance to the vast stockpiles of methane hydrates located around the rig. Even if the methane is not consumed in the nuclear detonation (thereby making the explosion vastly bigger) couldn’t the disturbance cause a rapid degassing of the hydrates into the atmosphere? There is an estimated 5700tcm of methane hydrate down there; that’s almost 300 years worth of electricity given current consumption. The hydrates are only ‘trapped’ there because the immense pressures maintains the super-powered greenhouse gas as a solid. Even though it’s been a long time and we really want to blow up some of our dusty old warheads it’s wise to be cautious here. This ecological tragedy could be made unfathomably worse.

[...] of technology.  There have actually been calls to use a Nuclear Weapon to stop the leak…See Here [...]

Park a tanker in the area? What area?
The spill is a mile deep. By the time the oil surfaces, it's spread over a few hundred square miles or more.

[...] ★ Russian paper suggests ‘nuclear explosion’ could cap gulf oil geyser Komsomoloskaya Pravda, Russia’s best-selling daily publication, has an idea: Why not just nuke it? During the Soviet years, Russia’s communists had to deal with numerous oil disasters and on five different occasions they employed controlled, underground nuclear blasts to quickly solve the problem. [The] underground explosion moves the rock, presses on it, and, in essence, squeezes the well’s channel,” Pracda reported. “It’s so simple, in fact, that the Soviet Union, a major oil exporter, used this method five times to deal with petrocalamities,” added Moscow reporter Julia Ioffe, writing for True/Slant. “The first happened in Uzbekistan, on September 30, 1966 with a blast 1.5 times the strength of the Hiroshima bomb and at a depth of 1.5 kilometers. KP also notes that subterranean nuclear blasts were used as much as 169 times in the Soviet Union to accomplish fairly mundane tasks like creating underground storage spaces for gas or building canals.” [...]

DAY 29 – insanity prevails

How many tsunamis were the result of the underwater nuclear tests conducted in the 1950s and 1960s? That’s right… none. Think before you type.

As I posted a few weeks ago, reflowing a selected alloy like woods metal which is Neutron thirsty means the current leak could be reflowed sealed with ease. The Russian big blast is a little problematic in that it’s hard to repeat if it liberates, not contains the spill, and other factors, though of course they deserve credit for thinking clearly and using a mundane technology well instead of having some strange emotional issues about it. I suppose the US is still reacting to annihilating > 50K civilians for the hell of it with these things. No reason the indefinite animal life should encounter extinction because of that.

Fill PVC collets with Cadmium-10 rich Woods metal around the leaks in solid form as convenient sized loose packed ingots. 1 m diam, 35 m high. Sacrifice a ROV with a physics package in it, carefully sized at the low end of kT. After the ablation, when the frit matures to a solid, it won't leak. Inertial confinement, look it up.

It’s easy to test in a university research reactor, of which there are thousands in the world,

Experts busy dreaming of the joy of converting Arabs into vapors trails 24/7 have the software to model this. Make them do something useful ones in their otherwise counterproductive lives and add the details. Or. Duh! ask the Russians to do it and send the bill to guess who.

my ref:
http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0504/russian-paper-…
25 May 2010 SDNr

Discussed is about 0.1% of those yields; 1.6 kM underwater. As discussed frequently, the general public can't work with numbers. Like talking Barbie says: “Math is too hard!”.

This is converting from matter to energy about the amount of mass that costitutes a few crumbs of yesterdays lunch in your pocket, not annihilates an island.

The only reason to use a nuclear event is to get an impulse function to melt a solid uniformly, so as it solidifies it uniform enough to not leave channels; (rather they close symettrically). a RF induction heater is a possibility, but it would be big compared to one small physics pkg, and hard to power. 2 MW via 600 V over 2 miles of water.

the other observation is, generally cutting and pasting from every document you saved in the last ten years is not thinking. Also, the half lives of these releases is very long, the undesireable increase in background radiation form military testing is definitely non-trivial

If done on a 100 m tower, intentionally designed to spread radiation, maybe the event I'm describing might add 1 part in 10 million to the 1500 previous tests, which had no direct utility to anybody whatsoever. Entry level here ia 1.5 kT package, about the joules in two big truck bombs. I doubt you could measure the radiation whatsoever at the surface.

The other stupid (sorry, I know your Barbie enabled for thinking but mean well), observation is liberating earthquakes. If so, do you like storing up the mechanical energy to get one 7.5 richer instead of 10 more tolerable 6.5 ???

Oh! Sorry! There I go with numbers again!

If material wasn’t escaping from the orifice(s), it would be easy to cap it.

But the Material escaping means almost every intermediate attempt is foiled by that alone. If you wanted to paint a mona lisa copy on the spigot of a garden hose, its easier to make a nice job if its not emitting water while you do it. The dead load to stop a > 3000 PSI fluid has got to be that times it area. I have said this three different ways. A fourth won’t help… ok, about try # 4: its hard to position and weld things well when there at rest. The dead load of 75 m of vertical matter is how it will counter the emissive force when its cooled to maturity. In the intermedaite state oil and gas flow thru the solid, loosely packaged material.

There is no requirement to anchor anything. the ROV’s are real time, on a fiber optic link 100 microseconds behind real time. They have extra relay contacts for misc equipment added, like cameras, etc. when its in the best position you actuate it. Its unfortunate the nuclear mines the D.O.D. has hidden away can’t be used, there ideal. But there existence implies a treaty violation, and short of WW III endgame, they won’t use them for this or warfare either. Its sad to need 90% of the force to break open the Remote vehicle, but I can’t see the people empowered are going to pull out the prepared illegal mines for something as meaningless as species extinction. If stuck with that decision, I’d take the same position. If you really want to reduce the power vastly, a defocused beryillium reflector cna be positioned. Every extra doo-dad you add is a potential failure for the frst usage you realize.

I suggest it be simulated by the spook-scientists who love this the most at Mitre, Argonne national and Berkely, then tested in a 10th scale model, regarding the Reynold’s numbers and so on so its scalable.

If the desktop one doesn’t work after a few tries, well, its a bad idea. In any case, human are both lazy, stupid, and hard up for everything, and always do everything easy first no matter the likelyhood of poor results. So, they will drill everywhere on the ocean floor sooner or later. Until its all gone to get. So, itstead of some active crap hydraulic junk heap, its reasonable to get on with this, if not for this failure for the next one, once this one’s forgotten enough to slack off on the comical Blow-out toy whatever those are.

no, you just lower it down ON TOP OF the well head. the heat and blast of the explosion will crush and melt the exit port so that no more oil can get out.

a small nuke, not a multi-megaton hydrogen bomb. are you kidding?

This device was offered at day 5 to the administration. Read the article, the russians have it and successfully employed it 5 times.

If anyone outside the US can access the european union times I would be interested. Attempts from america to read this site or the article linked to above result in virus warnings and frozen pages. I believe their information on the korean torpedo attack on the platform and other stories are being censored by the american government.

This top load proceedure being attempted next is interesting. It seems like it reuses the housings of the failed apparatus to contain tires, goop, whatever they have laying around to plug it up. Seems like if there is enough material to do much it risks blowing open the other orifices, but they probably have a lot of constriction with failed hydraulics, shards of pipe etc. I think they will move the leak form the top to the pipe side “riser”, possibly one leak without a machine housing is easier to cap eventually then about three, one of which is on top of some piece of neo office equipment without any provision for remote work. Not even lifting lugs are apparent in its undersea photos, or hex head sockets to remove the faceplate(s) and get at the comical improvising, dead battery(s) and poorly fabricated hydraulic fittings behind it.

So I think, smaller leak, moved to the riser. BP seems to be weary of completely lying as much as inhumanly possible. That seems unlikely. I guess when you cna see a oil spill from synchronous orbit, the odd greasy bird etc, its hard to lie as much as they usually like to.

Must be very stressfull on the legal department to have to deal with reality and not just cheerful advertising; i.e. “Beyond Petrolumn”, etc.

Anyway, I say…. less leak, moved to the side, no ignition of course, no change in effluent.

Funny the rRussians don't seem to be proposing a little few helpful hints here and there. Any misfortune and I told you so opportiunities are just so much fun for pretty much everybody. I wonder baout that a lttle.

How useless the national labratories in the US are is just amazing. Lets hope this lack of resourcefullness is remembered next time budget time come around.

it seems to me that a tiny nuke, such as a 1/4 kt mortar round or a 1 kt artillery shell could do the job. only problem i see is that it might need to be contained in a little bathysphere, since i don't think any of these little nukes were designed to withstand the pressure of 1 mile of H20

the smallest excavation nuclear explosive used in Plowshare was about 0.3 kT for excavation, this is a novelty use of it, a test for adding to some database somewhere.

Obviously, its useful to have a civilian use as a cover story to experiment with either non treaty compliant systems, or ones that are just unpopular (e.g. US Congress Always fights what is the smallest, not largest weapon in the design pipeline). Nobody cares what a civil engineer does.

You sacrifice a ROV, not experiment with a new housing.

The BP managment seem to have mostly dunces doe sthis stuff it appears. Its an unpopular industry, etc the dumbest kid in the graduating class goes into the oil patch to work I guess.

Talking about who's at the bottom of the class, Obama seems to be particularly inept at this (non) intervention. I mean, with a lawyer as copilot in his personal life, he thinks absolutely every problem is either the cause of legistlation, regulation, or can be fixed with it. Like the Douglas Adams books, where middle managers on a new planet think there is too much currency (leaves) in use, so they burn down all the forests as a corrective action. People with good intentions who don't know how to do anything, always looking for that magic guy who tells them what to do, actually seem fancy but usually fail.

As far aqs fixing this problem, its interesting to see how this will play out. It won't leak forever.

As described, its fixable, and if need be probably with conventional heating; (though that's difficult, to say the least).

The BP people are noboy's on a galactic scale, but there right only in one major regard, its pretty easy to make it worse.

If they sputtered teflon on the inside of there box, or made venturi to sort the matter by molality in the upper face, there box would have worked. They have this idea if even a teacup leaks, there in trouble. That its all or nothing. Nobody expects a apparatus like this to be infallible. They do hope it doesn't leak enough to damage the natural world substaintially, reach coasts, etc.

I had some Hydrides stick in a hydrogen regulator one time, and I think they crystallize into a near covalent bonds. they stick like crazy. In any very long system spanning pressures and temperatures, if there is Methane and H20 in it anywhere, they will form someplace. The angle at the top of the box is the cause… its the resriction in flow that causes the matter to explore PV/T over 10:1 and find the magic envelope to make the crystals.

Now to think about it, it must thre CEO who is a uniquely retarded Dunce. Some heap of guys like me likely know how to do this right, initially, and then after the incident too. But why talk to a guy who always overrules you.

Quite an incident.

Question then,

is there a body of direct knowledge to reflow material into a failed piece of equipment on a seafloor?

Concrete is the obvious one. There must be drilling mud that sets up similiar to concrete for some obscure purpose too, is there?

Seems like a bad idea ot experiment with materials science on this stuff. Concrete with Nitrogen, I can think of a few open issues that are troublesome.

It occurred to me the people involved are even more inept then I visualized initially.

In the reminents of a command economy, you would consider nuclear packages, but its not polite for guys who want to be reelected to *do that*. the dunces at BP almost succeeded and didn't figure that out either. There jar can be fixed…

The only possible issues with a covering bell jar is positioning it, dropping it and fastening a pipe to it. They achieved these hard goals, effectively solving the problem. The hydra(i)te salts are a confounding detail.

When I saw it before they threw it in, I laughed… Where are the lifting lugs, soft lead anodes for welding, etc? Radium “glow in the dark” registration marks, all the obvious things a non-moron would put on it. Obviously, cubbyholoes welded at random spots at 90 degree angles should be on it, parellel to the horizon, vertical and at the cant angle of the surface plus and minus so the ROV’s can push off something. The only thing that have on it are welded steps for people! Why? whats to see in there? Do they expect Obama to stroll up there on a state visit on the floor of the ocean?

And no lifting lugs at all the C.G. points. I mean, you have to remember somebody decision making there has no experience whatsoever with machinery. It’s an embarrasment to look at it.

But, no. I thought it should have covers to open for inspection, or more like hundreds of ½ inch dim holes, and small slots in english and metric common sizes, (ex. 7/16 inch, M5===>M7) It didn’t occur to me it would plug up, the aperatures I visualized were smallish.

But after it achieves all the hard goals, except one… they give up. Obviously, when the first was made, non morons would make extra’s in series, assuming it’s possibly/likely an iterated process.

But the answer is fairly obvious. Torch orifices in the upper surface exceeding by 8:1 or greater the area of the pipe. Leave a loose fitting U Bracket captivated to be turned in each clearance by ROV. Each bracket turns the corner on the PSI force, so its force to turn is friction * area * [Delta_PSI] not the PSI to PSIG. As flow is established, each can be welded shut form the outside. Each will cant from the inter surface delta PSI anyway, but they might wiggle form vibration, etc intermettalic corrosion so just weld or braise them in place after the flow is understood enough to mitigate a second pass of salt formation. Turning off the pumps, etc is a *bad* idea once it works.

Make then over a decade of area sizes with the same universal fitting for the ROV to position. For the larger ones, on the OUTSIDE of the housing, place a rack and pinion to close each with mech. Advantage of rotary to linear motion. Better really to make most of them small enough to not need this. Put a dab of Epoxy just enough they don’t move until the ROV grabs the part and shoves it.

The box over the thing wasn’t my first choice, but if you assume you will make it work, there is a guideline for these problems that is usually true. Don’t try to do it with a stupid guy calling the shots who can’t think about machinery.

There next pass of mud and useless random ejecta of blobs of rubber and and trash to plug the holes might work I suppose. Maybe they could put the CEO's head in there. They say they use dense matter for this process.

One theory in particular that's been circling conspiracy sites claims the disaster was caused by a North Korean torpedo as a way of presenting an “impossible dilemma” to President Obama………………..LMAO!!!!!!!!!!! Odds of anything getting near the USA from the water (especially submerged) is remotely impossible!!!!!

My condolences to the families of the oil workers who perished and to the people who's lives will be changed forever because of this disaster.
God, please help us.

No problem drilling deep enough to place the nuke. Bruce Willis and Ben Affleck can do it. Maybe we can get a live video feed from BP. When the public gets bored watching THAT, they can cut to shots of really cool stuff, like a skull-shaped shifter-knob with flashing red eyes. Also, we could get Ving Rhames to say some really tough-sounding inner city stuff. Then we can all go back to using giant gas-sucking SUV’s to haul our fat butts to the grocery store.

The people on the Flotilla which you are asking us to condemn Isreal were terrorists…They had guns and have ties to Al-Qaeda. Why are people so against Isreal and for terrorists? I don't understand….I realize that this is not related to the article, but the petition at the end…

[...] [...]

The real story as to why the explosion occurred in the first place.

Dateline Washington DC. Secret inside sources have revealed documents that indicate a conspiracy between former Vice President Dick Cheney and Barack Hussein Obama II. They were plotting a method by which to keep Sarah Plain to keep Sarah Palin out of the White House in 2012, which Obama thought would be an “explosive” situation. To which Cheney replied, “Not a bad idea.” But how can we get an explosion to keep her out of the White House? Barack said, “Dick, I think I've got it.
Although other memos say it was the former Vice President's idea.
They decided to select an oil rig to blow it up so that public sentiment would turn against Sarah Palin's “Drill, baby, drill.” In 2012 Sarah Palin will be running against Barack Obama so an explosion of an offshore oil device would fit the bill. The explosion and subsequent oil leak should submerge any slick chance she had as the environmentalists would never suspect a conspiracy, however, when Obama resigns from the race and throws his support to Dick Cheney, all will know the truth. They wold do anything to stop Sarah Palin. All in favor of this conspiracy, say “Aye.”
Sounds as logical as the other ones I've heard…
-A Right Wing Leftist Environmentalist

Kansas farm lad has solution, but requires advance payment by BP.

These situations are as silly as blaming the U.S. for causing the Boxing Day Earthquake/tsunami of 2004 with a nuclear weapon.

[...] [...]

Interesting article on this disaster

[...] 2. People are scared of “nukes”—the bombs and the word Russia has stopped four out of five oil spills by nukin’ ‘em. [...]

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