don’t you mean watch obama scramble? the simple fact is that he was the one who worked tirelessly against the public option behind the scenes.

Wonderful! It never should have been taken out of the bill in the first place! Let’s all support them 100%!

=== popurls.com === popular today…

yeah! this story has entered the popular today section on popurls.com…

[...] Woolsey to introduce 'robust public option' bill | Raw Story [...]

Finally, a member of Congress with some testicular fortitude, and a woman to boot.

since the CBO says that it will save money and reduce the deficit, the teabaggers and repukes will be against the public option…
especially since it will take money from their corporate overlords, and that's something they really, really don't want to happen.

Hooray for Rep. Woolsey, and for Senator Sanders, also…I'm among the MAJORITY of US citizens who believe a national, fair & balanced public option is now the best answer to putting any kind of throttle at all on these roguely aggressive insurance company profits. I think it's a done deal in the US House & I say US Senate LISTEN UP to a great opportunity to set right your past errors on affordable health care.

Oh goody here come those adorable signs with terrible spellage!

Looking forward to all the great videos of the tea party protests! Ain't America great?

Geez! Following American politics is sometimes like watching a suspense film. There are so many turns and twists that M. Night Shyamalan would be proud (when he was making entertaining films, like The Sixth Sense and Unbreakable, as opposed to shite like The Village, The Happening, Signs, yadda, yadda, yadda) because the last time I heard the public option was a dead one, yet it's back, seeming in a George Romero-like fashion

The return of the public option is a twist that's most welcome to see, and makes me glad to see that the doomsayers are (sometimes) wrong when they talk about the state of politics in America in general and progressive politics in particular.

Which is not to say that the battle has been won for a public option.

Sit back and watch the Right scramble

Whoopee!

I know right?

There's a part of me that's constantly objective and even though my political system drives me effing nuts I can sometimes sit back and say this is going to make for some awesome history at some distant happier time.

I'll be able to tell a future grand child “I remember that day…”

I LOVE IT! I hope she can get it done!

There are some Dems with some balls!

That's what this country needs more of!

Everyone was so disapointed when the public option was dropped back in Feb(?) I really felt like the heart had been torn out of the health care reform when they did that. Ms. Woolsey will need all the support she can get and probably bodyguards as well to protect her from the right wing nuts. They like threatening people and their families for standing up, remember…….

I am soo happy to read this!! I am an RN but still hit that healthcare wall just like soo many of us. Care for those at home first. I hope this passes easily with no hurdles to jump!!!

Will be interesting to see what the GO-P-TEA movement thinks of this method of deficit reduction.

Actually more likely , sit back and watch Obama and co give it lip service while fighting it behind the scenes and making sure it dies in the senate .

Well, I for one hope that this bill passes. It is high time Americans had affordable health insurance and that the insurance companies had some competition. They need not keep making huge profits off the illnesses of our people.

“Get your government hands off my public option”
– Future tea bagger protest sign

EXCELLENT!

“Spellage”?

In the context of lilyannrose's post, it works.

In the context of lilyannrose's post, it works.

Go Lynn Go!!!

What a swell idea! A non-profit insurace plan without shareholders to re-distibute your wealth up to. Wasn't that what Blue Crock was once upon a time?

Like ‘spillage,’ but with words. Here’s an example: Andrew Brietbart’s verbal spellage sickens me because it reminds me of raw sewage, except not as pleasant.

Good bye to the Blue Skies of America! Thanks to Barack Obama and the left wing of the United States:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovlrsFmrGiI

Good bye to the Blue Skies of America! Thanks to Barack Obama and the left wing of the United States:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovlrsFmrGiI

Do something democrats are still alive and kicking. Sometimes it takes pissing off the women to get things done!!!

[...] post:  Woolsey to introduce 'robust public option' bill | Raw Story By admin | category: company health insurance private | tags: health, introduction, [...]

which is why we will never have it!

Simple. It's not a method of deficit reduction and never will be. The idea of a single payer system being cost-effective is absurd because the marketplace is the only rational mechanism for determining cost. So, once a government grabs the reins of from the market competitors, cost then becomes impossible to assess. No amount of number-crunching central planners could ever predict the future desires of an entire nation, let alone a single city. Thus, the only way for the health care system to become more cost-effective would be to de-regulate and allow for the unencumbered marketplace to work its magic.

To use an anecdotal illustration of how the current health care legislation is not a money saver, I have a friend who is a small business owner in Nashville, TN. Just last week he told me that he was angrily writing Congressman Jim Cooper due to the fact that his group insurance premiums have jumped 39% in under a year when people like him were promised that the legislation would reduce costs.

So, why believe the bureaucrats that perennially fail to deliver their promises?

Hey you guys I'm going to give you a hint. It's not going to pass. The co-sponsors will jump ship when insurance lobbyists send them bags of money for “campaign donations” and the party leadership bullies everyone into voting no on both sides of the isle.

Health reform was not meant to help the poor, lower the deficit, or provide competition. It was meant to suck as many people as possible into paying for the current insurance racket to ensure higher stock value for shareholders and to keep Americans poor, broke, powerless.

Sounds like healthcare is retaining some traction. That's excellent news if this keeps up.
Maybe a few money-sucking pols will see enough pressure so the US can finally join the rest of the first world and get a decent healthcare system in place. Public option isn't the ideal solution, but it's a lot better than the hyper-corporatist Romneycare tripe we've been saddled with.

The unreported fact, many people believe that the current healthcare reform has not gone far enough. The polls consider these people as AGAINST any kind of healthcare reform. Far from the truth, while its better then nothing, many of us believe it can be better and more inclusive of Americans.

Actually, there's another valid mechanism for determining cost, one that any lowly number cruncher could explain to you. It's called accounting. Heck in this case it's just repeated addition. Require transparent accounting of any company working within the system, from one end to the other. Write down the actual costs paid out in one column, one above the other. Add them up. Multiply that sum of costs times a sustainable and fair profit factor.

(a few details:
–Multiplication is just repeated addition
–Companies would have to agree to full transparency & regulation but would also be guaranteed a reasonable enough profit to pay a standardized wage to the various positions in the company.
–This would create jobs & stimulus both for all the tracking, regulation and transparency and for accurately teaching math.
–The only downside when you back-of-the-napkin the numbers is that the mega health care corporations would make less at the top, but that profit typically does not go back into the economy so is it really a downside?

You forgot to mention that whole “lower taxes for the wealthy” mumbo-jumbo you free market idiots always expound. The only magic the unecumbered market produces is the transfer of wealth from the have nots to the haves. I can't believe with all the glaring examples of the destructive nature of deregulation in the past few years from finance to health care to the environment you can still spout that rhetoric and expect people to take you seriously. Don't you think it's about time we started spending some money healing people instead of spending it all to kill them for a change. Taking the profit motive out of healthcare insurance changes the inhuman approach of denying care. Not to mention living wages for employees instead of all the money going to a handful of greedy corporate minions. Let me guess, balance the budget, no more deficits, but don't tread on me with taxes. Grow up!

Of course the state wants everyone in Medicare. Have you ever heard of Estate Recovery. It allows medicare to take everything you own to pay for the health care they provided. Doesn't matter if you want to leave it to your kids, even with a will they can take it when you die or go to nursing home.

I'd like to mention Kaiser Permante which started operating in 1945 in the Bay Area. It is the largest managed care organization in the US today. Henry Kaiser (the Kaiser companies) started this health care organization for Kaiser employees at first in 1945 and it operates as a federal and state nonprofit. Kaiser tried to demonstrate during the health care debate that their organization is a model that can work. When I lived in CA, I belonged to Kaiser because it was easy to get seen although sometimes you had to wait awhile before they could see you but it wasn't any worse than an emergency room. I had a co-pay and a prescription paid for by my employer. I worked in HR doing benefits administration so I knew the costs. My company also offered an indemnity health care plan that allowed you to use your health care providers and have it covered by 80%. The Kaiser corporation still provides low-cost healthcare so nothing would have to be designed. We have 2 models to base an affordable health care plan: Kaiser Permanente and Medicare. So I'm glad to see someone moving toward these models. Don't tell me how screwed up Kaiser is – it's not – it just serves alot of people.

“Maybe a few money-sucking pols will see enough pressure so the US can finally join the rest of the first world and get a decent healthcare system in place.”

I do believe this will happen, but IMO it will take 15-20 years….

Yeah, after all, things were SO much better under GWB!

Oops! Sorry! That was meant for “The Tater.”

There is no way to set prices and determine costs if one doesn't refer back to the marketplace. So, why deviate from it by demanding more central planning? This is why centrally planned economies fail. They can't successfully allocate resources. Contrary to popular thought, costs of production do not determine prices of consumer goods; prices are determined by the bidding of innumerable consumers and producers engaged in the marketplace.

Entities like Medicare don't take such information into account and instead base their prices on cost. Medicare also ignores that fact that prices are constantly being adjusted due to the flux of the subjective valuations. No man or computer can rival what occurs naturally in an unencumbered market. There are way too many variables to account for. Everything from the billions of healthcare goods to the costs of complex production processes to the determination of quality to determining how much to allocate to diagnostic centers instead of outpatient centers. That simply can't be managed efficiently and effectively by a health czar in a single payer system.

So true, and so sad.

I will assume that you are just unaware and that you are not intentionally being a scaremonger. A person can divest before this happens. My Grandmother did.

^
This!

Hey Raw–As the congresswoman is doing the public a great favor, please spell her name correctly in your headline.

Bring it on. This is a war with the righties for the heart and soul of our country. Anyone who thinks November doesn't count is totally without a clue. It is just as, if not more, important as November 2008 was to the future direction of our country. Ever since Obama was elected the righties have done all they can to destroy him. They are working on the white independents by trying to make Obama look like he favors blacks. Repubs are the most sickening people I have ever met. They can't win on the issues so they must resort to slash and burn. Too bad there are voters who lack critical thinking skills to be able to wade through their crap.

Woolsey to introduce 'robust public option' bill | Raw Story…

I found your entry interesting do I’ve added a Trackback to it on my weblog :)…

That is in Medicaid, not medicare….

Until we get total campaign finance reform and remove the corporate lobbyists and the revolving door from govt to lobby jobs, we will have totally watered down legilation in all areas.

If I understand what you're saying, if you need medical care and/or nursing home services you shouldn't have to pay for it if it's provided by the government. Tell me, when was the last time you heard of a private company providing medical services without being paid? How long do you think a private nursing home will keep a patient without being paid?

You sound like someone that complains about how taxes are too high on one hand while complaining about how bad government services because our government has no money. Speaking as a liberal, I am firm believer in paying upfront for what you get whether from our government or business. You sound like a typical charge and spend conservative that wants government to give you what ever you want without being willing to pay via taxes or Estate Recovery.

“Act only according to that maxim whereby you can at the same time will that it should become a universal law.” The first premise is that a person acts morally if his or her conduct would, without condition, be the “right” conduct for any person in similar circumstances (the “First Maxim”). The second premise is that conduct is “right” if it treats others as ends in themselves and not as means to an end (the “Second Maxim”). The conclusion is that a person acts morally when he or she acts as if his or her conduct was establishing a universal law governing others in similar circumstances (the “Third Maxim”).

Health Insurance companies treat people as the means to their end, or profit from others misery. Therefore: Health Insurance companies are evil as defined by Humans.

As far as I understand it, material equality and legal equality are mutually exclusive. The former concept demands coercion since not all people are blessed with the same gifts, intelligence, and desire to work.

Also, your understand of free market concepts is undeniably poor. Like I've told many others here, free-market capitalism is antithetical to the system we have adopted, which is corporatism. Corporatism demands government support of private business. This can seen with subsidized business and protective tariffs. Government coercion is not allowed in a free-market system. You want to know why the health care industry is the way it is? How about you refer back to the Congress' monopolistic grant to the AMA to be the sole organization to license doctors after the release of the Flexner Report in 1910. The report concluded that there needed to be tighter regulations and less doctors. In fact, between 7 to 22% of medical schools at the time were merged or shutdown as a result of this publication. Other impacts of the report was impeding the progress of women and blacks. The report suggested the closing of the only three all-female medical schools and five of the seven medical schools for blacks. So, with the help of government intervention, the AMA was granted broad executive powers in the medical field. Blacks and women were held back as a result and there was less competition as a result of this government meddling.

Secondly, look at the HMO Act of 1973. That bill demanded all employers with 25 employees or more to provide an HMO option (if they offered traditional health care coverage already). With the wave of a bureaucratic wand, government granted health care providers an unearned swath of the market and provided them grants and loans to help them expand to their current bloated state. That's not free-market either, now is it? Sounds corporatist to me.

Hell, the problems associated with government meddling isn't just relegated to health care. Every time I hear people moan about the unavoidability of the dreaded high fructose corn syrup, I point them to the fact that its pervasiveness is due to the combo of corn subsidies and sugar tariffs. Neither of which are free market concepts.

I could gladly go on to other industries and describe their corporatist foibles, but the tune is always the same. The big, bad guys are always subsidized by the government or provided some preferential treatment that is anathema to free-market people like myself.

Furthermore, learn to argue instead of foisting straw man arguments on me. When did I claim that spending money to kill people was a good idea? Exactly, never.

yup, most of the insurance scam industry started out the way you describe it, but they haven't been that way for a long, long time.

the co-sponsors won't jump ship, more likely it will gain more co-sponsors.

then the pampered, corporatist fucks in the senate will shoot it down in flames.

at least, that's the way things have been going the last few years.

Thats not true…medi-care doesn't take your assets..doctors and hospitals, pharmaceutical Corporations, etc. submit fraudulent claims to medi-care that medi-care won't pay..and those hospitals and doctors will put a “medical lein” on your property (if they aren't prosecuted first and aren't paid by medi-care because the claims are bogus)….Medi-care fraud is a 60 billion dollar a year enterprise .—and it's not Gramma who is doing the fraud..its the Corporations, Doctors, Hospitals, etc.
… The government said doctors, nurses and health care professionals accepted cash kickbacks from medical service providers to approve services that were unnecessary or never delivered. Then the service provider would bill Medicare for the bogus services, including HIV infusions, home health care and physical and occupational therapy
(check out the ABC articles/story/links on Medi-care fraud..newest bust 07/16/2010)

BUSTED: Federal Agents Crack Medicare Fraud Operations in 5 Cities
Nearly 100 People Charged With Making More Than $251 Million in False Claims

July 16, 2010
Federal agents swept down on alleged Medicare fraud operations in five cities this morning , charging 94 people with submitting more than $251 million in false claims to the government. Agents executed search warrants and made arrests in Miami ; Baton Rouge, La.; Brooklyn, N.Y.; Detroit and Houston.
there are dozens of stories on medi-care fraud and the perpetrators of that fraud…you really think that these Hospitals, Doctors, Corporations who try to steal from the government with bogus claims would stop at taking your (or Gramma's property, especially if she were dead) with a bogus medical lein?…

Damn…I've half a mind to move to CA just to vote for her every couple years for the rest of my life. I was sure they'd let it rest the way it was and pretend it wasn't a big sell out to insurers…at least some of them still know that single payer option was what we wanted in the first place!

Fuck Kaiser. Kaiser's conspiracy with that bastard Nixon brought us HMOs in the first place. MORE money for LESS health care: Read it and weep:

Perhaps the best introduction to the Kaiser HMO and Kaiser Permanente Medical Care Plan is the summary by Mr. Edgar Kaiser that the less Kaiser does for patients the more money it makes. To get the full context one can go to the University of Virginia and review the presentation Mr. Edgar Kaiser (then Kaiser CEO) made to President Nixon through Mr. Erlichman – the less we do the more we earn. This convinced President Nixon to go forward with the HMO Act of 1973 with Kaiser as the template. The conversation is recorded below within the Nixon Whitehouse Tapes.

John D. Ehrlichman: “On the … on the health business …”

President Nixon: “Yeah.”

Ehrlichman: “… we have now narrowed down the vice president's problems on this thing to one issue and that is whether we should include these health maintenance organizations like Edgar Kaiser's Permanente thing. The vice president just cannot see it. We tried 15 ways from Friday to explain it to him and then help him to understand it. He finally says, ‘Well, I don't think they'll work, but if the President thinks it's a good idea, I'll support him a hundred percent.’”

President Nixon: “Well, what's … what's the judgment?”

Ehrlichman: “Well, everybody else's judgment very strongly is that we go with it.”
President Nixon: “All right.”

Ehrlichman: “And, uh, uh, he's the one holdout that we have in the whole office.”

President Nixon: “Say that I … I … I'd tell him I have doubts about it, but I think that it's, uh, now let me ask you, now you give me your judgment. You know I'm not to keen on any of these damn medical programs.”

Ehrlichman: “This, uh, let me, let me tell you how I am …”

President Nixon: [Unclear.]

Ehrlichman: “This … this is a …”

President Nixon: “I don't [unclear] …”

Ehrlichman: “… private enterprise one.”

President Nixon: “Well, that appeals to me.”

Ehrlichman: “Edgar Kaiser is running his Permanente deal for profit. And the reason that he can … the reason he can do it … I had Edgar Kaiser come in … talk to me about this and I went into it in some depth. All the incentives are toward less medical care, because …”

President Nixon: [Unclear.]

Ehrlichman: “… the less care they give them, the more money they make.”

President Nixon: “Fine.” [Unclear.]

Ehrlichman: [Unclear] “… and the incentives run the right way.”

President Nixon: “Not bad.”

Now take your pro GOP anti health care propaganda writing ass back to Little Green Nutballs.

There is no free market, never has been. The rich use tax dollars to buy politicians to manipulate the market through government interference. That's why there's war and “terrorists”. Capitalism equals murder.

When you make up words, you get to spell them any way you want :)

Never give up. It took 100 years to get rid of “separate but equal”, but it would have been the law toady if people didn't keep fighting. GOOD for her!

I was very happy when this health bill passed. I am 60 years old, unemployed and have no insurance. Nor can I get insurance because I am diabetic which is kept under control by just taking a couple pills. Now the pre-existing conditions are taken away so I checked on what insurance would cost me. Because of my age, my insurance would be $1000 a month.

so if the public option isn't passed I wont have insurance for several years

how nice it would be to join the civilized world. How nice it would be to get rid of the conservatives in our political system as well.

Nixon resigned in 1972 and I lived through that Watergate thing back then. I was studying Political Science at the University of Minnesota. I don't know how you got the idea that I am a rightie. I really voted for George McGovern and have only supported the Democratic Party since I was old enough to know what was going on in government. Nixon is history and it doesn't matter anymore what he did in office. He resigned because he would have been impeached and tried in the Senate. He just cut his losses. Also, at that time, Minnesota was in support of managed care. Kaiser is a nonprofit and has to follow the rules for a 501(c) or they lose their nonprofit status. That's all. And personnaly, I'd prefer that Medicare be expanded. Oh, I've been on Medicare too when I was totally disabled. I had no problems with that either. So, I think you can see that I speak from experience.

This would be great! Maybe we can at least start catching up with the rest of the modern industrial world.

“The idea of a single payer system being cost-effective is absurd because the marketplace is the only rational desirable mechanism for determining cost (by those looking to fleece the public). “

There, fixed.

The reason your buddy's costs went up is because he's a moron market type and let his moron market type buddies block efforts to cap profit levels by insurance companies. The MARKET folks at the insurance companies are SCARED they might loose profits, so they are exacting that money now just to be safe.. and there are no regulations preventing them from abusing you (thanks to the market mentality morons).

How is it the insurance companies (and the market mentality morons) scream about Single Payer being “unfair” to insurance companies because they won't be able to compete with the government, but the same market mentality morons assure everyone that private companies can do everything better than government? Those are opposing positions to take, so which is it?

Not to worry, I'm not one of your typical audience members.. my brain works, and I've worked through the many layers of bullshit you have to pile on for the market mentality to “make sense”.. It's about abusing and extorting and building monopolies to further those goals. Every argument boils down to “us business types want the government to let us run everything and run it how we want”. To that end, business buy politicians who are willing to abuse the public for a few dollars, and the business types get their deregulation, failed oversight, and consolidation of power. 100% OPPOSITE of what government is meant to do.. it is meant to protect the masses, not enrich the few. The market mentality morons have one single desire.. hold all the chips.

tough.

When you types start abusing the very ability to exist for the masses, you've gone too far. you don't have that right, you don't get to drain every last penny from people over things they “must have” to survive, we call that extortion and it is illegal and morally reprehensible (like you market mentality morons). At times like that, profits need to become immaterial and human life needs to trump, and that's where government comes in and protects the people that give it its power in the first place.

The Public Option doesn't even ban insurance companies, yet they are pissing in their boots. Good. And if they don't fix their shit and be more responsive to customers instead of stock holders, the next step is Single Payer. Let insurance companies find a niche for the rich there. Once the titty-lift and botox-butt doctor market is over saturated, there should be plenty of doctors willing to see sick people for $150,000 to $250,000 a year.

You're right, theoretically. There has never been a pure, uninhibited free market, but there have been moments in history of dramatically smaller governments and freer markets that fostered greater prosperity and liberty. But sadly, I don't think a pure free market is likely, but I think we can at least approach the ideal. Lord knows we have plenty of ground to cover. There is no doubt though that state capitalism is nothing more than an unjust aberration.

Is that fuzz on your mayo, or is your brain leaking out again..

That was the right-winger plan.. not the left-winger plan. Let's see if the left-wingers have enough pull to drag the centrist and right-wing Dems back a few steps on this bill.

I got my fingers crossed, but I'm not holding my breath.

“Separate but Equal” may be gone, but it was only one of many tools used by racist, classist, sexist and religious-based bigots. They've learned to skirt the law & integrate their hatred in more subtle yet equally effective ways…

It felt really good to read that, Thank You!

Gosh, one might almost suspect there's an election coming up some time this year.

Hope for change, Obots!

That's the way the system was designed. The House is to placate us plebeians, the Senate represents the elite (read: corporate leaders). Nothing new, it's just become much more blatant lately. Oh, and the House has been bought by the same corporate interests.

I was on Medicare when I was totally disabled about 20 years ago. My orthospedic surgeon chose to accept Medicare patients' benefits as payment-in-full. That was true for office visits as well. I'm not sure how it is now but I'll find out in 5 years when I can retire on my Social Security benefits. Of course, I'll still have to work until I die.

Alan we will hope for change while you and the American Taliban keep trying to destroy America.

Oh, yeah. I forgot about that rule. (-:)

This would be an extraordinary accomplishment, if only the following would drop dead, the entire company of Republicans that are at present holding office, and ahh, oh!… add a few Immitation Democrats , yea, I can see right throught their thinly veiled facade. You know? These guys could use a refresher course on adjusting one's attitude under the supervision of the Commandant of Stockades for about 12 years or until my grandma gets out of the Navy.

“No man or computer can rival what occurs naturally in an unencumbered market.”

…haven't been following microtrading in the Market, have you? It's a perfect example of computer-enhanced humans totally gaming the free market.

Crash's First Law of the Free Market: There is no Free Market

Crash's Second Law of the Free Market: The appearance of a Free Market must be maintained via social and political means in order to consolidate wealth by those that exploit and cheat those that believe in the Free Market.

Crash's Third Law of the Free Market: Any opportunity to game the free market for individual profit will be realized to the fullest extent possible, creating unfair competition through obfuscation. (Simplified: Any chance to cheat market freedom will be exploited and protected by all means possible)

Heard on Capitol Hill: “I see dead Bills”

LOL another Reagan Free Market Laffer Curve Trickle Down moron.
VOO DOO ECONOMICS.

Man, you have no concept of economic theory. You seem to think that the market is superfluous but there is no other fairer option. As I have said elsewhere: you can either have material equality or legal equality but you can't have both. And you know why? Because not everyone is equally motivated to work, not everyone is intelligent enough to prosper in intellectually challenging jobs, and not everyone has the same job interests.

What do you propose in the free market's place? Barter? I hope not because direct exchange still involves a producer and a consumer and is only applicable to primitive economies due to the problems of “divisibility” and “lack of confidence of wants”. Even more simplistic than bartering is self-sufficiency and that is undeniably time-consuming and labor intensive. If you conjure up some other means of satisfying subjective wants, then you would likely have to demonstrate a means to circumvent selfishness. Dispel the law of parsimony which essentially states that man wants the most from the least amount of effort and I'll be glad to hear of your revolutionary concept that replaces the marketplace. Maybe while you're at it, prove to me that everyone is equal in ability and interest and thus deserves to be compensated equally. If you can't, then you have no leg to stand on.

You Obots really are born suckers, ain'tcha? Some fauxgressive congresscritter promises you ipods and lollypops and you blithering demotards salivate like Pavlov's pooches. Disgusting. There isn't a micrometer of difference between you and your freeper republitard cousins.

Please post the links to the proof of freer markets that fostered greater prosperity for anyone other than the 1%er's.
You are living on Planet Delusional. With all your nice talk you say nothing.
You use the same talking points that the Kochs. Coors and Scaifes used to ensnare a fearful and ignorant rightwing.
These are now used by the TeaBags.

Wow, nice epithet. To persuade people, it helps to try to substantively counter their argument. You know the trite, pejorative “buzz words” but do you know what they mean or how they are applied? I think I know the answer to that one.

Central planning? This isnt the Soviet Union.
And your so called Free Market just crashed. Now you want us to completely let go of any safeguards?

Igor it is you and the others like you that are the most dangerous to this country.
You sound intelligent but you spout damaged goods.
You convince the uninformed masses that a free market will benefit them. That they will have a much better life if we just get government out of the way.
It is a lie pure and simple.
The 11 scariest words in the English language: I am a conservative and know what is best for you.

Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men, for the nastiest of reasons, will somehow work for the benefit of us all.
- John Maynard Keynes

igor you cant be convinced. You are an idealogue.
So stop spreading the crap.

Yes Igor . I do know what they mean. I am old enough to have been thru the BS first hand.
Just because you write long pseudo intellectual posts doesnt mean you have a real understanding of reality or real world economics.
I have no intention of debating with cons in the foreseeable future. It does no good to reason with the unreasonable.
I will continue to fight the American Taliban and call BS when those like you try to pass their lying bs on the uninformed.

But yet, you are wrong. Read up on the differences between Corporatism and Free-market economics(preferably an Austrian perspective). To claim that we suffered the economic chaos from “de-regulation” in the financial market is a myth. So, with the SEC, CFTC, the Fed, FDIC, OCC, NCUA, and the OTS in place, we were still unregulated? Maybe if add a few more stupid acronyms to the list, then toxic assets will become something of the past, but I doubt it.

A robust public option is just what we need!

A much easier and less expensive way to accomplish this would be to extend Medicare for everyone. But the Senate must first do away with the filibuster since the Republicans will certainly not allow this to occur. It is very easy and entirely legal to change the Senate rules so that a 51 vote majority decides votes and this must be done!.

I'd rather salivate over imaginary candy as a liberal, than salivate over a real shit sandwich as a conservative.

I too am on Medicare and am unable to work. I had private disability insurance for my of life (United Health); when I became disabled they denied my claim. United Health would not even pay for the period of time beyond my short term disability while I was on chemo. Five years after I got a letter from United Health that they would reconsider my case if I agreed to not sue them. This was because the NY State AG sued United Health and won; United Health was denying people's (like mine) rightful claims. I was too sick and so did nothing as follow up.
Normally my home is Oregon, but my wife and I decided to try to live in Arizona as I feel better in warm environs. While there I could not get insurance and was force to pay myself for all my treatment at the Mayo Clinic. The Mayo Clinic charged me considerably more because I was not an insurance company and they refused to negotiate any bills. I did have to pay for all my medications as well. Back home, I am now on Medicare Plus (I would prefer just Medicare but..) Medicare Plus is private insurance subsidized by Medicare — in other words our tax dollars subsidize private insurance companies instead of paying for medical care. My Medicare Plus provider (Regency Blue Cross) has denied prescriptions my doctor has written for me and we expect a major fight if we decide I should try a new treatment. As an aside, the medication Regency denied me costs $16 per pill here in the States; I get it from Canada for $1.47 per pill, and it comes from India with a maximum suggested retail price on the box of $0.27 per pill.
Medicare was great for my parents and grandparents! It is currently still better than any private insurance despite how much of it has been privatized (all the complaints we hear about Medicare are rooted in it's privatization by the GOP and some Dems.) If we had universal single payer (such as Medicare for all) and negotiated with pharmaceutical companies (like the VA) we could provide care for every resident in our great country and increase the payments to doctors. Compare what we had before the Reagan Devolution as regards our health care system (including such things as no drug ads) to our current state; it's not hard to see where we were misled and how to fix the system.

Cute:)

You should read some Thomas Sowell about the 1%'s because I imagine that you think that it is a static group when in fact it is not. Sowell found that only 25% of the top 1/100th of 1% of earners remained there by 2005. And you want proof that free markets are better than fixed economies? Have you read much about the French Revolution and the the hyperinflation of the Assignat that followed, and the famine that was the cherry on top? That's what happens when radically interventionist policies take root In 1793, Robespierre took power and made a major no-no by fixing the maximum price of bread along with other goods, when this failed to make food more available he proceeded to send soldiers into the countryside to forcibly take their grain. Hardly qualifies as a non-coercive, free-market approach, right?

A perfect example extolling the virtues of free market principles would be President Harding's handling of the forgotten depression of 1920. You probably have never heard of it because it was handled in a completely different fashion than the Keynesian debacles of the Great Depression and our current mess. In 1920, unemployment jumped from 4% to 12% and GNP dropped 17% but President Harding did NOTHING to bail anyone out. In fact, he cut the federal budget in half from 1920-1922. Tax rates were dramatically reduced too. The deficit was reduced by a third. And best of all, the Fed did next no “quantitative easing”, nothing. By the late summer of 1921, unemployment was back down to 6.7%. By 1923, it was down to 2.4%.

I'd be glad to provide more.

Wow, so microtrading is vainly approaching the already instantaneous nature of the free market. Not impressed by that or your hollow and self-serving economic “laws”. Substance, my friend. I need substance.

As much as I hate to agree with you, I have to keep in mind that he's a politician, and such behavior isn't exactly unknown to them.

Weren't these the same Progressive Caucus members that pledged not to vote for any Health care Bill that did not have Single Payer in it???

But all did in the end vote for the bill without it, and they call themselves Progressives. They could have held out for the PO, but they did not even try.

This is probably just another election ploy. It won't get debated or voted on until next year but You, hoping it will, will reelect them and they will let you down again.

The House Progressives

ARE PROGRESSIVE IN NAME ONLY.

Where to begin. Life is something we should all be able to agree on as a basic right I would think. Its really the only thing you can't live without which means you can charge whatever you want people have to pay. If we truly are the greatest nation on earth than providing healthcare for every citizen shouldn't even be a question. The only way we are going to be able to survive as a country and revive our economy is to find a way to level the cost of healthcare. You do realize that health people create a more efficient work place right? Less time off of work and less time spend trying to replace sick or dead people. If gave everyone healthcare and started working preventative medacine we can start fixing things before they are catastrophic when it costs everyone more. Oh yeah you ever wonder why you pay $500 for an aspirin at the hospital, its because they are treating people who can't pay for it.

Where to begin. Life is something we should all be able to agree on as a basic right I would think. Its really the only thing you can't live without which means you can charge whatever you want people have to pay. If we truly are the greatest nation on earth than providing healthcare for every citizen shouldn't even be a question. The only way we are going to be able to survive as a country and revive our economy is to find a way to level the cost of healthcare. You do realize that health people create a more efficient work place right? Less time off of work and less time spend trying to replace sick or dead people. If gave everyone healthcare and started working preventative medacine we can start fixing things before they are catastrophic when it costs everyone more. Oh yeah you ever wonder why you pay $500 for an aspirin at the hospital, its because they are treating people who can't pay for it.

What a pathetic excuse for viewpoint. In your world I suppose there's no point in attempting to rectify the horror that is health care in America today. Better to just sit on the sidelines and attack anyone who tries. Very effective strategy, genius.

nor are all people blessed with compassion, fair play or integrity. You are correct in your observation that my understanding of free market concepts is poor. So is my understanding of unicorns. If you could point me to an example of a system that operates under these principals I would be happy to educate myself but I fear like the unicorn, none exist.
I will not argue that ours is a corporatist system. Some might even call it fascist but to assume all our problems could be remedied through free market principles is naive. I wish everyone told the truth and that I could fly through the air but it's just not possible.
Also I am not arguing that the healthcare system is a failure. While it could be much better we can all fall into that hole. My argument is that health care Insurance does not serve the best needs of the people as a whole as a privatised system. There are some things in this world that perhaps should not be for profit above and beyond everything else. While profit is certainly the great motivator and has it's place in this world it does not in many cases push or pull in the direction desired. Some ideas and the efforts and outcomes are about more than just making a buck. If we judge good or bad, worthy or unworthy, righteous or vile on the basis of profit alone we are really selling our selves short, so to speak. The question arises also in how do we decide what to do with and how to allocate the common reources that in theory belong to all of us. Sorry about the killing people comment. It was out of line. Unfortunately under a for profit healthcare insurance system it happens all the time and I am speaking from experience not hypothetically. I'd like to talk more but duty calls. 9 to 5.

Spazzing out over a hefty Big Gulp of teaparty KoolAid?

No more sugar for you, young man.

Not to mention most of the underdeveloped countries as well.

First of all, I have to commend you for being kind (and interested) enough to listen to my opposing viewpoints. So thanks for not cursing me out!

Anyway, I never said that a free market would end all human woes. And furthermore, what does that tell you that a free market has never really been allowed to exist. Yes, it is an ideal, but there have been points in history where markets were freer and individual liberty was greater. I’m sure you aren’t really this way, but going by your logic, hope and perseverance must be almost meaningless. It’s like you’re saying, “Since I can never be completely and perfectly honest, then why should I try so hard to be honest at all.” Though I know that economic perfection will never be fully realized, I do also know what the fairest and best economic system is.

I agree that all of humanity should be as free and healthy and prosperous as possible, but government intrusion seems to never be the right answer. Though it sounds awful to put a price tag on just about everything, I think that is about as good as we are going to find this side of heaven. The more I learn about terrible events in history, the more I find government policy to be to blame. It’s not mom and pop businesses that do terrible things, it’s the industries that collude with government and have all the lobbyists playing our congressmen like pawns. Just the fact that there seems to be a perpetual revolving door from the corporate realm to the political realm is disconcerting.

Lastly, I saw that you mentioned “common resources” which is acceptable only if they are not scarce. Air is a good example. Until air becomes a scarce good, no entrepreneur will invest in air or try to sell air because there is no demand for it. But if the good is scarce and there is a consumer demand, then the good is often better maintained when it is privately owned rather than publicly owned (rather, owned by no one). People have used this argument when comparing the near buffalo extinction to the thriving steer populations that were privately owned, as well as overfishing in publicly owned stretches of ocean vs. privately owned fish hatcheries.

If its passed its worth whatever conspiracy you want to apply to it

Don’t you remember that I’m a Christian?!?! Why would I think it would be right for people to murder and rape?

Also, you still provide little more than epithets and prejudicial conjecture in your remarks. You never provide proof, but only anecdotal invective. You boast of history and facts being on your side, but I find it odd that you never use them.

You should read about how President Harding handled the Depression of 1920. Here are a few, little secrets: he cut taxes, he cut the deficit by a third, and halved the federal budget. In three years time, the unemployment rate fell from 12% in 1920 to 2.4% by 1923 and that’s without the Fed’s quantitative easing, nothing. Maybe that’s how we should hand this predicament?

Go for it! What are the GOBP phony teabaggers going to say it s full of death panels? LOL! Vote out anyone who votes against it!

I thought I'd seen a better description, but this one surely wins. Condensed wisdom, indeed.

YES !!!

Please, GO FOR IT, please.

The so-called “laws” are actually descriptions of human behavior, friend. They are not meant to describe the inner workings of the economic system itself, merely how this particular system by its very nature is exploited by those who can.

The so-called “laws” are actually descriptions of human behavior, friend. They are not meant to describe the inner workings of the economic system itself, merely how this particular system by its very nature is exploited by those who can.

The so-called “laws” are actually descriptions of human behavior, friend. They are not meant to describe the inner workings of the economic system itself, merely how this particular system by its very nature is exploited by those who can.

The so-called “laws” are actually descriptions of human behavior, friend. They are not meant to describe the inner workings of the economic system itself, merely how this particular system by its very nature is exploited by those who can.

Bring it fine, courageous Knights. I'm with you, what can I do?

Replace 'capitalism' with 'communism' and you're onto something.

Public option will not provide 'competition', it will KILL private competition.

Unbelievable.

LOL.

Yeah, Igor is the idealogue and you are not.

Good grief.

Don't give up the fight!

Crash's First Law of the Free Market: There is no Free Market

Crash's Second Law of the Free Market: The appearance of a Free Market must be maintained by social and political means in order to consolidate wealth by those that exploit and cheat those that believe in the Free Market.

Crash's Third Law of the Free Market: Any opportunity to game the free market for individual profit will be realized to the fullest extent possible, creating unfair competition through obfuscation and unequal opportunity. (Simplified: Any chance to cheat market freedom will be exploited and protected by all means possible)
Thanks Crash2

Medicare extension is a change in revenue and does not need 60 votes. This is how George W got his tax cut for Billionares through. However, Big Pharma and Big Insurance will continue bribe our Congress and Senate.

If Congress or Senators refuse to fall in line with Big Pharma and Big Insuance, then Big Phama and Big Insurance will launch BIG Money Bombs in the campaigns this fall. After all, according to the Supreme Court, companies are people and by defination have the right to unlimited free speach. Witness Meg Whitman as she drops millions as she runs for California governor along with Carly “lets ship jobs out of the country” for Senator.

Finally, we have the easliy riggable voting machines…. its all kinda sick isn't it?

What we have to do is support and pressure the present Democrats and let them know we can't be money bombed. Also, notify local candidates that they should start now to work/pressure the local voters registrar to have an honest election.

Democracy is not free, we have to work to save it.

Medicare extension is a change in revenue and does not need 60 votes. This is how George W got his tax cut for Billionares through. However, Big Pharma and Big Insurance will continue bribe our Congress and Senate.

If Congress or Senators refuse to fall in line with Big Pharma and Big Insuance, then Big Phama and Big Insurance will launch BIG Money Bombs in the campaigns this fall. After all, according to the Supreme Court, companies are people and by defination have the right to unlimited free speach. Witness Meg Whitman as she drops millions as she runs for California governor along with Carly “lets ship jobs out of the country” for Senator.

Finally, we have the easliy riggable voting machines…. its all kinda sick isn't it?

What we have to do is support and pressure the present Democrats and let them know we can't be money bombed. Also, notify local candidates that they should start now to work/pressure the local voters registrar to have an honest election.

Democracy is not free, we have to work to save it.

Go get 'em! I don't see this getting passed, but I like the fact that it is being brought up again.

Don't go to CA, go somewhere where you can vote in ANOTHER progressive to join her. That said, I am pleased to see her bring this forward.

I Like her.

how will it kill private competition? Are you somehow afraid that the government will deliver cheaper, more effective healthcare than the insurance companies?

I am at a loss to see where you would get that idea. Look at the rest of the Western economies. Oh, wait, maybe that is why you are so worried about the welfare of the insurance companies.

minor correction. Nixon resigned in August of 1974.

Thanks – you are correct. I should have remembered that because everyone I knew in college had been demonstrating against his policies. I just sent a telegrams to Hubert Humphrey and Walter Mondale urging impeachment!!! Those were the days: demonstrations, getting high, party all the time and all the other things I forgot.

I’m sorry but that has been refuted see here http://www.angrybearblog.com/2010/04/1920s-depression-glenn-beck-thomas.html.

Sowell and Thomas simply lied about the stats.

Igrobertston if markets are efficient determining fair prices then does a completely unregulated market of derivatives exist? What value does do derivatives create for society?

How do you know what a fair price is so you can say that the market always get’s it right?

You’ve already admitted that a pure free market has never existed but you claim to know how one well one would work? How do you know the inner workings of a systems that doesn’t exist?

You say that central planning doesn’t work but America and the entire modern world was build by central planning from the Massachusetts Bay colony to the Transcontinental Railroad. What about Marshall Plan? Was that a failure?

“But it could be a nonstarter in the Senate this year, due to the busy calendar and fast approaching November midterm elections.”

… of course.

You're kidding, right?

The government will, without a doubt, sell its policies at a loss. Private insurance cannot compete with that.

I'm glad you're okay with incompetent BIG government taking over our economy.

Disgusting.

We're doomed.

Sorry, but managed care is a racket. I much prefer the old days when doctors made house calls and patient paid doctor as needed and had “insurance” only for major medical. An office visit in those days did not cause a week's paycheck.

The insurance racket wormed their way into “health care” via the back door by pushing medical malpractice rates through the ceiling. Since over 95% of all medical malpractice cases are voluntarily settled, there is absolutely no justification for the premium hikes that precipitated the so-called “health care crisis” of the 70s, which “crisis” (completely manufactured by the insurance industry) prompted Nixon's embrace of managed care, and the onset of the new “MUST HAVE” health “insurance” racket. Prior to that you could count on one hand the number of people who had health “insurance.”

Whether HMO or private pay you get far less than you pay for, not as much as you need and far too many other people involved in your private health care decisions.

I repeat: Fuck Kaiser Permanente; Fuck health insurance companies and fuck anyone who defends these criminals.

Oh, and I'm a trial attorney with over 25 years of experience and 2 dozen insurance trials behind me. So I speak from experience as well.

Civilized countries use tax contributions from citizens to provide a single payer system for health care. That is what this country would do if the members of Congress weren't bought and paid for by big insurance, pharma, food, defense contractors, telecoms and banks.

BTW Nixon resigned August 8, 1974. His resignation unfortunately did nothing to stem the tide of his embrace of managed care. Since that time, you can't get a fucking band aid without being a member of an HMO (and then only if your primary care physician recommends it and the concurrent review person approves. If you're in a private plan, you pay through the nose on a monthly basis and then your band aid is authorized only if it's one of the benefits specifically included in your agreement. If you have a pre existing condition that necessitated a bandaid in the past, the recommended treatment is either likely to be denied or you will be charged a surplus due to your having once previously used a bandaid.

Good luck America getting a public option through. If your congressional whores and sellouts even let a vote happen, the GOP propaganda wurlitzur will certainly destroy any chance that you will be competently and accurately informed about the significance and cost to you of the public option versus what you have now, which is almost worse than nothing.

Non-profits, charities and churches would be there to care for people. When people are taxed less, they have more money for charity. I find it funny that you preach of compassion and yet only 66% of secular folks yearly donate money while 91% of the religious folks donate yearly. The most charitable were my fellow Protestants at 92%. Catholics were at 91% and Jews at 89%. (http://www.hoover.org/publications/policy-review/article/6577). Of course, the religious are more likely to be conservative, so go ahead and explain that away.

Nothing in nature mimics industry?Maybe that’s why man was created special and apart from the rest of God’s creation. I know you can’t stand that, but too bad. So, what’s your proof that industry in a natural world is nonsensical? Your ideas are ridiculous! I guess we shouldn’t farm either since no animals are farmers, right?

You mention the horrible and even fatal working conditions 350 years ago and yet the markets are what slowly pulled humanity out of the squalor. How did we achieve safer drinking water and cleaner food? Was it because of human ingenuity or government policy? Economists believe wage growth to have been relatively slow for the poor during the Industrial Revolution, but the real culprit for the slow growth seems to be the result of government policies and not industry itself. England was involved in the Napoleonic Wars, the War of 1812, and the American Revolutionary War. To fund these wars, taxes were astronomically high at times. Still some studies were more than optimistic. In a study estimating real wage growth in England between 1755 and 1851, economists Peter Lindert and Jeffrey Williamson concluded that real wages for blue-collar workers doubled in 32 years. Others have claimed the rise in wages to have been more gradual over a longer period of time. One British economist, N.F.R. Crafts found that between 1760 and 1860, the poorest 65% grew to be substantially better off with a 70% increase in average real income.
According to historians E.A. Wrigley and Roger Schofield, there was a 15% increase in life expectancy between 1781 and 1851. So, the financial and physical conditions of the laborers improved despite the numerous setbacks (often government imposed) that beset them. Again, the ultimate irony is that you bemoan capitalism and yet your life is dominated by its innumerable provisions. Unless you have no car(or bike), live in a house that required no hired labor, or a job to pay for other conveniences, then you are a hypocrite. You rely on your manufactured computer to disparage me and my convictions which is doubly ironic in that you speak to me as if you hate me, but you claim that your worldview is more charitable and loving than mine. I can scarcely imagine you being charitable to me and yet I have a higher power calling me to be kind to you.

I never said that humans should solely dedicate their lives to production. I know that humans act, and each action satisfies a want. It could be one driven by charity or by greed or by anger or lust, but people act to satisfy these disparate wants. Your dilemma of existing or consuming is without merit. Animals eat and lead lives far more “consumptive” than our own. Since many carnivorous animals can’t accumulate capital like nuts and berries in the winter, they live to prey on other animals. That’s almost all that all they do. What a one-dimensional existence; kill or be killed.

And please quit talking about the impending robot horde that displaces mankind. I already addressed that irrational fear earlier on. As long as capital is needed to produce the robots, how will that capital be obtained if more and more people are permanently displaced by robots? And furthermore, if people act subjectively to satisfy their wants, then why would they keep choosing robots in their place? And if humans installed these robots, what’s to prevent these robots from removed due to the dire employment problems?

I hope your other dilemma of living to work or working to live is not a component of your worldview because both options require capitalism as a presupposition. Why not be really radical like you claim to be and not work at all? I certainly don’t live to work. So, don’t worry we can still be rawstory friends ;)

See what the dark side has to say —- fox news video report on this……

http://www.newslook.com/videos/231935-public-op…

Ohh, boo hoo, poor tory. Twist this tory-twit:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/22/secretary-lahood-republic_n_655916.html

He’s better off eating his shit sandwiches.

Ultimately it will have to be passed. There's no question. Or every dollar Americans make will go to the insurance industry and the only people that's going to make happy are a bunch of stuttering Tea Baggers.

I would rather give my money to the government then ANY insurance company

Why, the government doesn't work for you they work for the people that get them elected and the banks that fund the debt. Get your head screwed on straight

Don't tell me your one of those people that thinks you run the government because you get a vote so you can trust the people that are administering things because if they do bad you can get rid of them. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA and there are flying pink ponies too, BWHAHAHAHAHAHA

Tell me how do you think government is going to drive down the cost of Health Insurance when in every other industry they get involved in they make prices go up

Your talking about the same Government that has devalued the dollar by 93% over the last 70 years. How bad do you think they will devalue your health care in 70 years

Tell me why your super duper Insurance Companies are afraid of a little competition with just an option to choose a Government run program. My insurance rates have more than quadrupled over the last 30 years and I get squat. I haven't been to the Doctor in 12 years…too busy working to pay for the insurance that covers nothing for the first $10,000. The greedy for profit paper pushers have ruined health care in the USA.

I think I read that approx. 70% of the voting public favors a Public Option. Sounds like a good thing for candidates of any party to run on, but I doubt the party of no will do anything besides pander to their corporate masters.

Worldtreker2004 evidently hasn't had to buy into the private health insurance market lately…

My small business has seen its premiums jump nearly 60% over the last 3 years with NO illness claims, and massive ($4,800 per person) deductibles before the carrier pays one red cent. NO Gov't-run program I know of has see those types of increases.

So to answer WT2004, I would LOVE to buy into Gov't-run insurance, if for no other reasons that they don't immediately skim 20%-30% for profit – or `reward' workers for denying claims.

yeah, the government sure can't run a Post Office where letters cost 50 cents to send (and they WOULD turn a profit, if they weren't legally required to break even = no taxpayer support), the Gov't can't run the Army, Navy, Marines, etc, and it can't run a Pentagon. Community College? Gov't run, obviously that's no good. Roads, bridges, damns? Built by the gov't. they obviously won't work.

No, let's give over all our vital services to the private sector, since they obviously don't need any oversight and they NEVER mess up. You know, a guy like you who is obviously so well informed ought to be running things, not these democratically elected public servants!

yeah, the government sure can't run a Post Office where letters cost 50 cents to send (and they WOULD turn a profit, if they weren't legally required to break even = no taxpayer support), the Gov't can't run the Army, Navy, Marines, etc, and it can't run a Pentagon. Community College? Gov't run, obviously that's no good. Roads, bridges, damns? Built by the gov't. they obviously won't work.

No, let's give over all our vital services to the private sector, since they obviously don't need any oversight and they NEVER mess up. You know, a guy like you who is obviously so well informed ought to be running things, not these democratically elected public servants!

I know exactly what you are talking about. My sister was a dairy farmer before Reagan privitized the dairy industry. I'm sure you can imagine catastrophic injuries in that line of work but even under Reagan they also had to pay the first 10K before they got any coverage. Forget dental insurance, life insurance, etc. – things that are usually provided by employers. Or at least, they used to do that. And, why do you think so many American companies move to Canada? How about a public option health care system. Just a thought.

[...] Raw Story [...]

I'm all for it, where do I sign up?

What a stimulus to our economy it would be for businesses and individuals to have affordable health care.

And if you read the article blog item linked in a few weeks back, the premise of “Liberal” is that they view the world through a universally applied context, while “Conservatives” look at the world through loyalty, family, self set of rules.

It explains why so many Liberals are decent people, and the right-wingers have so much rank hypocrisy all across their platform. Rules apply to the rif-raf, but not to them or their friends.

One could rewrite your maxims to read “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you”.. the “Golden Rule”, a simple guide that if everyone agreed should be the litmus test, would lead us to a much better world for everyone.

And here we have the case where “government does it too well, private companies can't compete!” side of the hypocrisy. When the government is already doing it, the other side of that coin is played and we hear “privatize that because private companies do it better and more efficiently!”.

Which is it? Which side of the coin should we live by? You guy keep flipping it over so fast you make me dizzy.. let's leave it on one side and move forward, ok?

wait for it…. if 70% of the voting populace is for it, then very soon, Fox News will be reporting that 70% of voters are AGAINST the public option… in Fox News World, Up is down, left is right, and of course… right is right.

“Entities like Medicare don’t take such information into account and instead base their prices on cost.”

Exactly. And entities like corporations base their prices on cost + massive salaries and bonuses for the executives + dividends for the stockholders + whatever the market will bear + I’ll stay out of your market if you’ll stay out of mine + whatever spare change gets dropped in the confusion.

Thanks for your help in clearing that up.

/c

“The government will, without a doubt, sell its policies at a loss. Private insurance cannot compete with that.”

The only “without a doubt” that keeps creeping up is how “abuse the public for the gain of the few!” types keep moving the targets all the time.

I'll make a deal with ya.. we'll make sure there is zero deficit incurred with this plan.. that good? (hint: you still loose because you want profit, and non-profit still costs less to the patient).

“I'm glad you're okay with incompetent BIG government taking over our economy.”

The only incompetence in government are right-wingers that run campaigns on the slogan “government can't work! put me in that job!”.. yeah, hire the guy that tells you up front he can't do the job? We're doomed because the public is too stupid to tell (self admittedly) incompetent people they can't have the job.

not sure it was “equally effective”.. we have a black President :)

WOW!! You really have to be complimented about the written word that you just expressed. It is really a compendium of unrelated subjects.

You can get coverage now if you can't get any (one) insurance company to turn you down for coverage because you have pre-existing conditions and affordable payments. I'm trying to get that down too because I have too many pre-existing conditions. I don't know what state you are in but I called my Senator Al Franken and his staff is helping me get this done. If you contact anyone in office probably even at the state level, you probably would be able to get the care you need. Good luck.

Isn't United Healthcare easy to work with and get your claims processed quickly (I'm being sarcastic)? United Healthcare is located in Minnesota – I worked there on contract one time and also a friend of mine who got me in there. Within a week, I wanted out of there. At any rate, UHC does not sell health insurance in the state of Minnesota. I'm not sure if it's because the state jumped down on them about the ridiculously highly paid CEO's at the expense of people like you.

you go girl

you go girl – awright way to go !
you can have my vote
applauds accolades kudos
high five
and any other over the top positive exclamation of affirmation

All the more reason to keep the dems in the majority otherwise the repugs will kill, kill, kill it.

VOTE THIS NOVEMBER. VOTE DEMOCRATIC.

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F yeah!

Bingo!

You know that this is just a huge stroke–me session to get our whores buried in paper, so that they can continue to declare war on us.

But it could be a nonstarter in the Senate this year

Last time around it was a nonstarter in the Senate, as the Senate is a mystical citadel, protected by the mists of Time, where elven archers and dwarven axeman wage their Eternal War.
Or vampires and werewolves.
Or aristocracy….

insurance industry's anti-trust exemption kills competition.

a public option will re-establish a competitive marketplace.

people who believe gov. can do nothing right and is horribly inefficient, shouldn't be concerned. If they're right, they have nothing to worry about.

State Universities and private Universities – costing double, triple or more – coexist. So can private and public health insurance.

This is fantastic to see… now all it has to do is clear THREE hurdles… 1st: The Blue Dogs in the House… Let's assume it actually clears that… then 2nd, it runs into the Brick wall known as “Obstructionist GOP Senate Minority”… and if by some miracle it clears that… then it faces the Veto pen of our “Bipartisan pocket dweller of the Health Insurance Companies” President Obama…. who will still be extending the “Hand of Bipartisanship” into the wood chipper known as the GOP

So basically…. good luck…

I love it. You get raped by private insurance companies with their price fixing collusion – and you cheer for them!! Yeah! Thank you sir, may I have another?

And how about big pharma? The Pill Bill written by big pharma lobbyists and passed by corrupt Republicans – without even pretending to pay for one red cent (hypocrites) – OUTLAWED price negotiation! How very capitalistic and fiscally responsible of them.

I have a drug I take. Retail is $100/mo. My co-pay is $30/mo. I can buy the EXACT SAME DRUG from the same company, made at the same factory, for $24/mo from a Canadian drug store. Part of my private insurance premium includes the drug benefit that gives me the privilege of paying a 20% premium over what Canadians pay. Gee, thanks.

And the kicker is that right wingers across the land defend the folks screwing them blind every single day.

If the Dems would pass a “medicare for all” option now, that may turn the tide. The lame healthcare bill compromise, which hasn't delivered anything to the people yet, is almost impossible to sell. And even when the provisions kick in, the subsidies will probably melt away in the sun. Insurers certainly have plans in the drawer, enabling them to turn tax dollars into profits without improving their insurances at all. A public option add on, showing that the Dems really want to change the system, could avoid the slow motion train wreck, and be an important argument in the campaigns now. And under the impression of the horrible poll numbers, even blue dogs, who opposed it so far, may think twice!

Who raised his premiums,corporate America did,not the government.It’s been well publicized that the insurance industry would attempt to raise premiums as fast as they could to make as much profit as possible in the event that cost controls(public option) was instituted.Time and again it has played out that leaving cost containment to the private sector without some kind of regulation does nmot work.Any other thinking is totally biased to greed.Corporate competition does not work in all fields(i.e. healthcare,insurance,utilities-all of these are tightly controlled by corporist america for their self serving good and not for the good of all).

I'm not sure on any of this.I hope these people do the right thing

Presumably, that comment is sarcastic. But one question that I haven’t heard an answer to is this: what’s the difference between a govt. bureaucrat sitting between me and my health care provider and a private insurance company bureaucrat sitting between me and my health care provider?

Never say never. You want it work to get it.

Oh we are, many of us are working to get rid of the teabagging/gop.

No we were born intelligent, unlike you.

Just remember Sage1 hitler had people who loved him in the 30′s and 40′s. I’m sure if Alan was alive back then he would have been kissing hitler’s ….feet.

Yep alan would be kissing hitler’s big toe.

You’re projected alan, you are kissing hitler’s big toe.

You are so lucky, Ladygeek to have a terrific senator as Sen. Franken.

Yes but if we start to fight together we can beat them. But we can’t let the racists bigots sexists gain power. We have to keep a constant watch over our government, and keep attacking fnc and other right wing liars.

It isn’t perfect, but I suggest you actually read the health care reform law before passing judgment on it. It has some good things in it.

Communism? Have you been asleep for the past few decades?

Paranoia is a mentail disease I suggest that you seek professional help and bone up on your modern history. You are way off track.

The teabagging/gops’ minds have been so poisoned that no one can reason with them. Their education inferior, so they can’t seem to help themselves. They follow fnc and other right wing fascists to their destruction.

Thus proving that the teabagging/gop don’t know diddly.

You really don’t know what you’re talking about. But paranoia does this to the teabagging/gop all of the time.

If the privatized health insurance do a good job they will remain in business, if the government run health insurance does poorly they won’t. Only the poor will use them.

I think you’re scared that if we do get government run health insurance it will be better than the privatized ones and that you will fall apart.

Smarten up. You need professional help.

I believe this is what you meant:

….The Republicans are the party that says government doesn’t work and then get elected and prove it.–P.J. O’ROURKE, Holidays in Hell

It’s really a long one but this part really says it all.

Lovin' the optimism.

Not.

Got any solutionistic ideas? 'Just say No' is not just a stoopid bumper sticker, it's shitty public policy. Single-payer/public option is the only idea yet put forth that actually solves any of the problems we face.
I'll stand with Rep Woolsey and the other 101 flying pink ponies and the [likely well over] 70% of Americans that would like to see more government work on behalf of people, as opposed to corporate interests.
But hey…maybe you're right, and we'd be better off repeating the mantra “We're doooooooooooooomed” while stomping our feet and maybe biting someone else.

Well, they surely fooled the fuck out of you. Though I don’t know that makes ‘em all that smart, really.

Mo’ Betta Dems? That’s all you’ve got, Obot? Bwa…ahahahhahahahahaha!

Your little Obot cult wouldn’t exist without the delusional teabaggers.

Godwin’s law of Nazi Analogies – “As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1.”

You lose again, Obot.

Reductio ad Hitlerum = you lose, Obot.

And once again you show what a lame ass loser you are.

And once again you show what a lame ass loser you are.

I like the part where you can get coverage for faith healing as a medical procedure. Way to go, Obot!

I like the part where you can get coverage for faith healing as a medical procedure. Way to go, Obot!

You forgot to mention Hitler, Obot.

You forgot to mention Hitler, Obot.

PJ O-Fucking-Rourke? KOSWHACK ALERT!

PJ O-Fucking-Rourke? KOSWHACK ALERT!

You are making the mistake of only looking at the proximal causes. Sure insurance company raised premiums, but why? Before you answer, try to take into account the AMA’s monopolistic control of the supply of physicians that was granted by Congress a century ago, or the court system’s failure to combat frivolous lawsuits that demands physicians acquire expensive malpractice insurance, which then leads to the practice of defensive medicine.

Furthermore, you seem to conflate corporatism with free market capitalism when, in fact, they are vastly different from one another. Corporatism demands collusion between industry and government. The idea of an industry being “too big to fail” would be an example of corporatist behavior. Subsidies and tariffs are the classic tools of corporatist behavior, while free marketers disdain both.

If you wonder why our health care industry is so bloated with power then maybe you should look up the HMO Act of 1973 where a large share of the market was wrongfully given to them with the simple wave of the bureaucratic wand. That’s impermissible in my book, but is classic Corporatism. Or read about how the AMA came to be so powerful by way of the Flexner Report and Congress.

Your claim that the private sector can’t handle things like common goods is laughable. There’s a reason that private schools, on average, outperform public schools despite public schools crowding out the market. Or what about the pitiful state of our infrastructure? In 2008, the American Society of Civil Engineers estimated that $1.6 TRILLION was needed to
bring our nation’s infrastructure into “good” condition. Why does our infrastructure suck so much? Maybe it’s because the government is not as adept at allocating resources as private interests. Hell, even garbage pickup is relegated to one day a week no matter how much garbage you accumulate. It’s a one size fits all approach.

Also, it would help if you provided evidence for some of your claims.

You are making the mistake of only looking at the proximal causes. Sure insurance company raised premiums, but why? Before you answer, try to take into account the AMA’s monopolistic control of the supply of physicians that was granted by Congress a century ago, or the court system’s failure to combat frivolous lawsuits that demands physicians acquire expensive malpractice insurance, which then leads to the practice of defensive medicine.

Furthermore, you seem to conflate corporatism with free market capitalism when, in fact, they are vastly different from one another. Corporatism demands collusion between industry and government. The idea of an industry being “too big to fail” would be an example of corporatist behavior. Subsidies and tariffs are the classic tools of corporatist behavior, while free marketers disdain both.

If you wonder why our health care industry is so bloated with power then maybe you should look up the HMO Act of 1973 where a large share of the market was wrongfully given to them with the simple wave of the bureaucratic wand. That’s impermissible in my book, but is classic Corporatism. Or read about how the AMA came to be so powerful by way of the Flexner Report and Congress.

Your claim that the private sector can’t handle things like common goods is laughable. There’s a reason that private schools, on average, outperform public schools despite public schools crowding out the market. Or what about the pitiful state of our infrastructure? In 2008, the American Society of Civil Engineers estimated that $1.6 TRILLION was needed to
bring our nation’s infrastructure into “good” condition. Why does our infrastructure suck so much? Maybe it’s because the government is not as adept at allocating resources as private interests. Hell, even garbage pickup is relegated to one day a week no matter how much garbage you accumulate. It’s a one size fits all approach.

Also, it would help if you provided evidence for some of your claims.

Your fatal assumption is that there is some daylight between the federal government and insurance corporations. There isn't. There will be no legislation passed by the two corporate-owned parties that will negatively affect the profit margin of insurance corporations. Anything else is ponies and rainbows.

Hope for change!

Pathetic. What a bunch of pink-scrubbed rubes you Obots are. Tack a simple slogan to it and you drooling lackwits will buy it. How do you differ from your freeper cousins again? Oh yeah. Hope for change.

You want to be an all-day sucker, Obot? Go ahead. No one is stopping you.

Bad news for the war effort, skippy. You're sucking on a shit lollypop.

I’m not Catholic, I’m Protestant, so you begin with a false assumption. Furthermore, just because some choose to act contrary to Scripture doesn’t prove that the underpinnings of the faith are wrong.

I find it funny that in order to oppose President Harding’s remarkable efforts you have to look 9 years later to find an alibi for your distorted worldview. You seemed to skip your assessment of Herbert Hoover’s presidency. Within 9 months into his presidency, he spent $22 billion(in adjusted dollars) in tax breaks. He increased federal spending 42% from 1930 to 1932. For the record, President Coolidge ran a budget surplus every year before Hoover came along and blew it to smithereens. In fact, Hoover went from inheriting a $700 million dollar surplus to creating a $2.6 billion deficit by 1932. But what really caused problems for the economy was Hoover’s insistence on NOT cutting wage rates after the collapse.

So compare that behavior to Harding’s paying off $2 billion of public debt without impeding recovery and Coolidge paying off twice that amount.

Also, the Roaring Twenties was a time of real wage growth for most industries whether you like it or not. Real earnings of skilled and semi-skilled male laborers rose 5.3% from 1923-1928, while unskilled laborers’ earnings improved by 8.7% in that time frame. Even females earned a little bit more by 1928. Farming and coal mining suffered, but appliance, automobile manufacturing and the construction industries boomed.

Provide some facts, please. You have yet to do so and it makes your arguments appear hollow.

I’m not Catholic, I’m Protestant, so you begin with a false assumption. Furthermore, just because some choose to act contrary to Scripture doesn’t prove that the underpinnings of the faith are wrong.

I find it funny that in order to oppose President Harding’s remarkable efforts you have to look 9 years later to find an alibi for your distorted worldview. You seemed to skip your assessment of Herbert Hoover’s presidency. Within 9 months into his presidency, he spent $22 billion(in adjusted dollars) in tax breaks. He increased federal spending 42% from 1930 to 1932. For the record, President Coolidge ran a budget surplus every year before Hoover came along and blew it to smithereens. In fact, Hoover went from inheriting a $700 million dollar surplus to creating a $2.6 billion deficit by 1932. But what really caused problems for the economy was Hoover’s insistence on NOT cutting wage rates after the collapse.

So compare that behavior to Harding’s paying off $2 billion of public debt without impeding recovery and Coolidge paying off twice that amount.

Also, the Roaring Twenties was a time of real wage growth for most industries whether you like it or not. Real earnings of skilled and semi-skilled male laborers rose 5.3% from 1923-1928, while unskilled laborers’ earnings improved by 8.7% in that time frame. Even females earned a little bit more by 1928. Farming and coal mining suffered, but appliance, automobile manufacturing and the construction industries boomed.

Provide some facts, please. You have yet to do so and it makes your arguments appear hollow.

So what about religious people that pay taxes? They must really be awesome by your metric, right?

Factory owners need capital to build more robots, right? You have yet to address this hurdle in your argument: Where does the capital come from if more and more humans are permanently unemployed? Robots can’t spend money, only humans can do that and if we all become poor due to rampant joblessness, then who would be buying these robots?

Robots only replace humans in localized situations, and you forget that new jobs are created with the advent of new technology.

It’s funny how you overlook many inconvenient aspects of my argument. I wonder why that is…hmm?

So what about religious people that pay taxes? They must really be awesome by your metric, right?

Factory owners need capital to build more robots, right? You have yet to address this hurdle in your argument: Where does the capital come from if more and more humans are permanently unemployed? Robots can’t spend money, only humans can do that and if we all become poor due to rampant joblessness, then who would be buying these robots?

Robots only replace humans in localized situations, and you forget that new jobs are created with the advent of new technology.

It’s funny how you overlook many inconvenient aspects of my argument. I wonder why that is…hmm?

The FED is responsible for the devaluation of the dollar. Fractional Reserve trickery.

You are overlooking a major error. Even if we suppose that free trade of the robots would be at play, how would foreign entrepreneurs acquire capital to buy robots when the displaced humans are too poor to buy them in the first place? For their to be profits, there needs to be demand. And if the poor are starving they would only be able to live hand to mouth and NOT perpetuating your bizarre robot fantasy by investing in robotics with their non-existent funds.

Do you really worry about this? Machines have been around for quite some time and yet people still work, a lot . In fact, I bet there were people like you that bemoaned IBM’s creation of the computer thinking that computers would one day displace humans, but I’m pretty sure that humans still operate computers, some humans have even found jobs programming software for computers, others still make a living by repairing computers. And yet, computers have proven to be a vital tool for humanity, but still I find no sign of their overthrowing their humanoid “masters”. And you call ME psychotic and illogical…

You are overlooking a major error. Even if we suppose that free trade of the robots would be at play, how would foreign entrepreneurs acquire capital to buy robots when the displaced humans are too poor to buy them in the first place? For their to be profits, there needs to be demand. And if the poor are starving they would only be able to live hand to mouth and NOT perpetuating your bizarre robot fantasy by investing in robotics with their non-existent funds.

Do you really worry about this? Machines have been around for quite some time and yet people still work, a lot . In fact, I bet there were people like you that bemoaned IBM’s creation of the computer thinking that computers would one day displace humans, but I’m pretty sure that humans still operate computers, some humans have even found jobs programming software for computers, others still make a living by repairing computers. And yet, computers have proven to be a vital tool for humanity, but still I find no sign of their overthrowing their humanoid “masters”. And you call ME psychotic and illogical…

I'm sorry, but I have almost given up hope. Our president has surrounded himself with DLC cockroaches who will try to force the progressives to back off. Sorry, but it is Democrats as usual: most of them have sold their souls to their corporate sponsors.

http://www.alllaw.com/articles/tax/article5.aspThe Medicare tax rate is 2.9% for the employee and the employer. You will withhold 1.45% of an employee’s wages and pay a matching amount for Medicare tax.We already pay taxes for Medicare.https://www.cms.gov/MedicaidEligibility/08_Esta…The Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act (OBRA) of 1993 defines estate and requires each state to seek adjustment or recovery of amounts correctly paid by the state for certain people with Medicaid. The state must, at a minimum, seek recovery for services provided to a person of any age in a nursing facility, intermediate care facility for the mentally retarded, or other medical institution. The State may at its option recover amounts up to the total amount spent on the individual’s behalf for medical assistance for other services under the state’s plan. For individuals age 55 or older, States are required to seek recovery of payments from the individual’s estate for nursing facility services, home and community-based services, and related hospital and prescription drug services. States have the option of recovering payments for all other Medicaid services provided to these individuals.This is from the gov website. Even after you pay medicare taxes your whole life they are REQUIRED to take your estate after your death regardless of your will.

Edit to add this:
Just which plan do you think the gov will force the poor into with a public option? Medicare or Medicaid?
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/03/20/health-care-strain-states-expanding-medicaid-analysts-say/

The health care bill that is on the verge of passage is striking fear into hearts of several states that they will be left on the hook for the cost of expanding Medicaid.

Hear that? MEDICAID.

http://www.alllaw.com/articles/tax/article5.aspThe Medicare tax rate is 2.9% for the employee and the employer. You will withhold 1.45% of an employee’s wages and pay a matching amount for Medicare tax.We already pay taxes for Medicare.https://www.cms.gov/MedicaidEligibility/08_Esta…The Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act (OBRA) of 1993 defines estate and requires each state to seek adjustment or recovery of amounts correctly paid by the state for certain people with Medicaid. The state must, at a minimum, seek recovery for services provided to a person of any age in a nursing facility, intermediate care facility for the mentally retarded, or other medical institution. The State may at its option recover amounts up to the total amount spent on the individual’s behalf for medical assistance for other services under the state’s plan. For individuals age 55 or older, States are required to seek recovery of payments from the individual’s estate for nursing facility services, home and community-based services, and related hospital and prescription drug services. States have the option of recovering payments for all other Medicaid services provided to these individuals.This is from the gov website. Even after you pay medicare taxes your whole life they are REQUIRED to take your estate after your death regardless of your will.

Edit to add this:
Just which plan do you think the gov will force the poor into with a public option? Medicare or Medicaid?
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/03/20/health-care-strain-states-expanding-medicaid-analysts-say/

The health care bill that is on the verge of passage is striking fear into hearts of several states that they will be left on the hook for the cost of expanding Medicaid.

Hear that? MEDICAID.

My super duper insurance company, United “Healthcare”, wouldn't even give me the medicine I needed to save my sight. Luckily, the wonderful ophthalmologist I went to (who supports the public option 100%) had enough extra left over from patients who could afford better insurance. He had stored up these extras for people like me whose insurance company would let me go blind rather than paying for a $2000 injection. There's your super duper “profits before people” big assed health insurance corporation! They might as well have been a death panel for my eye!

My super duper insurance company, United “Healthcare”, wouldn't even give me the medicine I needed to save my sight. Luckily, the wonderful ophthalmologist I went to (who supports the public option 100%) had enough extra left over from patients who could afford better insurance. He had stored up these extras for people like me whose insurance company would let me go blind rather than paying for a $2000 injection. There's your super duper “profits before people” big assed health insurance corporation! They might as well have been a death panel for my eye!

Sadly, I believe you are correct.

It’s a hobby…

[...] Woolsey to introduce 'robust public option' billRaw StoryHouse Dems pitch public option as deficit busterThe Hill (blog)Seattle Times -Insurance News Net (press release) -AlterNetall 28 news articles » [...]

The best public option is to allow people and companies to opt into Medicare. It is 95% private and if “private” is truly more efficient than public, people will opt to stay with their current system. But we all know that is hoghwash, and the option will go a long way toward fixing a very deficient ObamaCare.

Let us knock-off the bullsh!t about health care REFORM. No matter how you dress the pig it's going to be Kosher reform style ( JewUS). What is needed–break the high cost of medical SALARIES.Pass laws–wanna be a doc or a nurse–2 year college degree and thousands of medical schools opened up–BUT a cap on SALARIES of $100,000 and none of this training crap needed. Is a Doc worth $30 million/year just because he got a med license? Come to Canad and see them make big buck$ working 3 years per 2 day week..
All medicines–none of this Pharma despensing fees of $20++ for tablets worth 15 cents and max for all drugs $30. No lobbists near Washington or the death penality :^/

First of all adjusted for inflation, physicians have actually seen the amount of share of their pay decrease over the last 40 years(avg physician in the us take home 135,000 not bad but not what you make it out to be). This may be because of increased overhead(insurance coders, malpractice, etc…) The only segment in that 40 years that has seen a huge increase and accounts for 30-40% of total increase in medical costs over that period has been insurance overhead and profit. Physician salary has followed inflation since the 1960's. I wish I still had the link, but put that up against insurance costs and that is where the money is going. Second would you go to a physician who had only 3 years of training who is making less than 50k a year after their administrative costs. I'm not saying that a doctor deserves 30 million (considering that figure is a piooma value), but I hope that the person cutting into my skull has had 10+ years of training and isn't worrying about if they can pay their staff or their mortgage this month why they put a drill to my skull. Oh also medical school now will leave you 250k in the hole as soon as you get out to practice. Some food for thought.

igrobertson,
While you have not convinced me that private ownership and free market principles necessarily lead to a more just society you do make some compelling arguments in defense of your beliefs. I think you misunderstood my statement regarding honesty. I’m not saying I, you, whoever should not try to strive toward honesty, integrity, etc. The point that I was trying to make was that a free market can only work for everyone when all participants play by the rules. Most of the people I know that play by the rules (and I consider myself one of them) are not wealthy or even concerned about being wealthy. Money does strange things to otherwise decent people. I have worked for a government entity (Port of Seattle), a socialist/collective entity (Int. Longshoreman’s Union) and a Corporation (UPS-Supply Chain Solutions/ not to be confused with UPS Brown which are Teamsters. We are non-union). The only difference I see between all three is the language they use to describe their mission. In fact all three claim to put people first but I did not experience that at all. Whether it’s greedy, corrupt politicians, greedy corrupt union bosses, or greedy corrupt managers and executives, they all seem to be operating from the same basic self-absorbed philosophy and sense of entitlement that refuses to reward hard work and integrity. It’s far more about loyalty, coercion and conspiracy to destroy any threats and dominate any perceived enemies. I think we can both agree that our current system is rotten to the core and perhaps that is where change can begin. Rather than amplify our differences maybe we should celebrate the fact that there are areas where we can agree. I was talking to a work mate about Rand Paul and how the media trashed him for speaking his mind and telling the truth. My response was and is that there are certainly some great ideas in his philosophy of what government should and should not be. That does not mean everyone of his ideas are good. But that’s not how governments should be run anyway. I believe the collective knowledge has merit and should be taken advantage of and debated. Unfortunately most of the time it’s the loudest, richest, most obnoxious and most duplicitous that push their ideas on everyone else.
Anyway, I enjoyed talking and I am listening.
Serfdumb.

J: Yes, I agree. There are too many deficiencies in the Obama care, 14 month debacle, which was written by the CEO's of the health care complex. That crappy bill needs to be totally overhauled. It does not reduce costs, so Americans are still bending over and paying…$..for reduced services that don't even come close to excellent….Poor to fair services is more like it.

J: Yes, I agree. There are too many deficiencies in the Obama care, 14 month debacle, which was written by the CEO's of the health care complex. That crappy bill needs to be totally overhauled. It does not reduce costs, so Americans are still bending over and paying…$..for reduced services that don't even come close to excellent….Poor to fair services is more like it.

Yea, but nothing is going to change until we have public funding of campaigns. The McCain-Feingold bill was watered down by McConnell and DeLay or it would have done the job. What is it about political bribes do we not understand?

If politicians are going to be beholden to their funders, those funders should be the taxpayers. And at $5 per taxpayer per year it would be a bargain. Even at 100 times that. We MUST lobby our senators and representative to co-sponsor the bill at:
http://www.fairelectionsnow.org/more/summary

Jack Lohman …
http://MoneyedPoliticians.net

Very true. Woolsey's doing the right thing here, but she and the other sponsors are up against the health insurance, pharmaceutical, medical device, and hospital industries, who are very happy at the current Obamacare bill, since it forces everyone into their clutches.

They've bought off the Blue Dogs in the House and Senate, they own the GOPukes, and as Obama just demonstrated, he put one of Wellpoint's henchwomen, who wrote the Health Insurance Reform Bill as part of Max Baucus's staff, in charge of implementing the new bill.

Those are three huge hurdles. Huge.

Here's one for you Senate mavens out there. Seems to me that if this bill reduces the deficit, then the Senate does not need to go through the usual 60-vote super-majority to pass it — just a simple majority. Am I remembering that right?

geo is a teabagging/gop who knows nothing about anything. He worships the corporations and lacks knowledge in economy.

Apparently he's in favor of our jobs going to China and other countries leaving Americans jobless or working in low paying jobs like McDonalds.

Remember when these people claimed they were patriots?

Well to quote rep. wilson, “You lie!” You do not love our country because you don't care about our people.

If you paid attention to what was actually going on you would know that there were some corporatist Democrats that helped caused the so called “Obama Care.” along with the fascist gop.

You do understand that the president can only suggest ideas for laws but can't make a bill don't you?

Perhaps many Americans should go back to school and actually learn about their government, and pay attention this time.

Thank you Jimmy for your honesty.

The problem has been the gop and corporatist Democrats and lieberman who have their pockets lined with corporation money, and care nothing of the American people. These people should be fired by the voters.

Lyris, You certainly have a high opinion of yourself. I pay attention and know what is going on. In addition, I am well aware that the Dems are in bed with the corps…Blue Dogs? Perhaps you should go to school in order to improve your social interaction skills, then we can talk again at a later date. I would like that, Lyris.

Guest: Thanks and we need all the help we can get. The corps reign supreme in this country, topped off by a nice. red cherry compliments, of the S. Court, with their stupid ruling, stiffing the American people. I will lobby as you suggest, but I don't think the Congress is listening or even caring. Those big dollars allow them to look the other way, rather than do what is right.

And we all know that government run anything is better than private companies.

Try telling this to ben nelson, blanch lincoln, mary landrieu, lieberman, baucas, bayh and all of the gop. They only care about their pockets which are lined by corporation money.

Besides the entire gop senate, there were only a few Democratic senators who were opposed to the public option.

You believe wrong meowomom, it was only a few Democratic senators who were opposed to the public option and medicare for all.

The problem will be the lobbyists like armey who will ship in enough rednecks to turn D.C. into chaos again.

I wonder if we had someone who would pay our way how many public options would show up in D.C.?

Like “Mission Accomplished”?

Are the health insurance really happy with the so called Obama care? Do you remember how we got what we got?

Corporations are dirty and evil and fought to keep things the way they were. Now at least they are forced to put the majority of the money to actual health care and not bonuses. It's not what I wanted, but knowing that the big boys aren't getting their millions in bonuses makes me smile.

You are correct ya_right. From your lips to God's and the American voters' ears.

He will make some changes.

…And line their pockets.

Didn't read the health reform law did you?

Bravo Christian.

Bravo Christian.

And while we didn't get the public option this time, the health insurance now has to put the majority of what we pay for health care into treatment for us, the big boys won't be getting the big bonuses they used to get.

I suggest all of you read the law.

I'm so glad you had a kind and caring ophthalmologist. He's a wonderful example of what doctors should be. He's a keeper.

I just had a thought as I was reading this article. There are true Democrats like Kucinich and true Republicans like Ron Paul but, by and large, the vast majority in Congress (and Obama) are Corporatists. In reality we have a three-party system. Shouldn't truth in advertising rules come into play so we don't have to continue with the charade of this phony two-party system?

Yes it would. That and getting rid of NAFTA and all the other AFTA's.

Perhaps if you and others of your ilk actually looked at the facts we would have better elected officials.

It is you who is pathetic alan. I'm sure you believe what fnc and the teabagging/gop are telling you, which shows how little you know.

It will pass, but only if Americans start demanding it, and I mean DEMANDING IT.

Start calling, writing and emailing your elected officials. If they are opposed, start getting under their skin until they are voted out, or they actually start to listen.

Never give up.

These people decided wisely that they can build on the bill that was passed into law. Now only are they progressives, they are very smart.

These people decided wisely that they can build on the bill that was passed into law. Now only are they progressives, they are very smart.

We need more Democratic senators, but the progressive kind.

I suggest you reread the part about filibusters and clotures and how to work around them.

Our health comes from within and no-one seems to care that that's where this health care problem begins.

Here's an idea…

Perhaps they can write a bill that creates a robust public so we don't need as much health care.

In it they can:

Outlaw Monsanto's Frankenseed
Ban the use of cancer causing food additives such as aspartame, high fructose corn syrup, msg and all food dyes.
Tear up HR 875 The Food Safety Modernization Act of 2009
Prohibit the use of Fluoride
…

What else would you like included? It's your bill too!

What American private companies have had as long a successful existence as the U.S. government has? Exactly why do you think private businesses are run better? Private businesses go belly up by the thousands everyday.

You had a tiny handful of representatives and maybe two or three senators. Your party is beyond corrupt. Put down the rainbow flavored kool-aid and deal with it already.

There are no ponies or rainbows. The “big boys” will profit handsomely from the bill they wrote.

Gutting Social Security, for one. Is that a pony or a rainbow, Obot?

I suggest you read the fucking bill already.

Sad. It's always someone else's fault, isn't it? The God-Emperor can do no wrong.

I've got some land in Florida you'd just love. Rainbow colored ponies graze on it all the time. You and your teaparty cousins can move in right away

Write your senator! That *always* works.

Easy. The private insurance company bureaucrat gets paid substantially MORE if he/she is successful in denying you care.

Easy. The private insurance company bureaucrat gets paid substantially MORE if he/she is successful in denying you care.

wow, you're kinda stalkerish..

is that you bibi? i thought you quit the crack when you only had one tooth left.

While your party pimps tax cuts for the rich, liability cuts for BP , refusal to extend unemployment benefits for hundreds of thousands of americans and refuse to tell the public their own alternative plan for economic recovery while dishing on the dems'.
Who's trying to fool whom here?
Both parties are compromised and there's no point in denying that.
But yours takes the cake in greed, deception and corruption.

I'm surprised you're so obsessively against healthcare reform.
I'd have thought any gov't subsidies for your medication would be useful.
Atleast it appears that your Thorazine script is up.

“There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.”

-Bloviator, Dear Leader and Cocaine Kingpin

While it's very easy to poke at our government for all their bad policy and elitist tendencies, there are a few honest brokers in Washington working for we, the people. Along with Ms. Woolsey, Kucinich and Grayson are rocks among the host of corporate-sucking jellyfish.

So yes, go after our government for the corporate welfare and bloated 'defense' budget, but let's not be so jaded that we don't trust anything the government does. That leaves us as anarchists or republicans.

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Hi Jim,
I have to ask, what it is that the government has done for the benefit of us in the last 20 to 30 years? Name something, please, because I don't see it, I don't see one thing that we can clearly lay on the shoulders of our governments policies that have benefited the American people as a whole or groups of us as individuals?

Everything they touch turns to sh!t. If you can't see it, change your diet, lay off the aspartame and turn off the TV.

We've had a corrupt government all of my life and then some…

Just look at the word itself.

Government comes from the Latin govern (control) and mente (mind).

Government = mind control.

And please don't consider yourself democrat, republican or atheist, you're so much more than these short sighted terms.

Go see a psychiatrist, tell them what you just wrote and get yourself some depression medication.

The Public Option is going to have to be passed, because ultimately there won't be enough money to satisfy the health insurance industry.

In 1965 health care took six percent of American's yearly salary. Today it's 17 percent, and the insurance companies are raising prices all over the place.

Wages have remained static for nearly half a century. Every gain the American worker has made in the last 45 years has been eaten up by the health care industry. It's not sustainable.

I know this may take time, but it is wise and good to continue to press the discourse, rather than letting the right control issues and the framing of those issues in the media. Proud to say Lynn Woolsey is my representative.

Sorry but this will be a terrible idea. The other day i went to the Dr to have my blood pressure cheked, the Dr asked me when if i was going back to Malaysia anytime soon? i told him , not anytime soon.. He said about not getting sick over there. As the health care here in the US is much better here. You don,t want to get sick over there unless you go to a private hosiptal and don,t go to the gov hospital there. Just remember when the US has gov owning all the health care going on here and you want care. ha you go then”opps'

i am voting for Rand Paul this year moron.

So, your doctor is an expert in Malaysian medicine? Is that a required course in American med schools? I'm an American living in Taiwan and couldn't be happier with the National Health Service here. Also, I guess your doctor is an expert in international economics. Seeing as Malaysia is a relatively poor country, its gov't run system is probably substandard to what an industrialized nation could do. Did you even bother to ask your doctor for his credentials when offering this opinion? I'm guessing not…

Typical TROLL… They attack the poster, not the post.

Since you couldn't refute the message you tell me to seek meds?

Aww… Didn't anyone ever teach you how to debate a point?

Perhaps you should cut back on the aspartame too, ha.

Al is the re-incarnation of Senator Paul Wellstone who was murdered by the Bush family.

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Al is the re-incarnation of Senator Paul Wellstone who was murdered by the Bush family.

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Al is the re-incarnation of Senator Paul Wellstone who was murdered by the Bush family.

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The government passes literally hundreds to thousands of bills a year. Reading through such a dense list would be excessively boring, but if you could do so and still honestly feel as if there have been no changes which affect you in a positive way then I'm not sure I understand what level of accommodation you expect.

People seem to think that the Obama administration isn't doing anything. Whether or not one agrees with his political stance, he has made good on a great deal of his 500 campaign promises and has apparently been the most diligent president in 60 years when it comes to passing bills (i.e. he's made more changes in his current span of office than any other single president has in six decades). I'm not sure if it's saying much, but didn't he exceed the productivity of the Bush administration's entire two terms by the end of his first year?

Point is, things are actually getting done. I've taken a look at some of the changes and while I don't agree with all of them I'm actually surprised at how many good bills seem to get passed without any sort of fanfare.

On another note I'm rather familiar with Latin and your etymology is a bit flawed. The word definitely did not come directly into English from Latin, and the '-ment' is preserved from the French where it was indicative of the noun form of a verb. Govern… government. It works the same way in many languages and you would be hard pressed to make an etymological connection to “mind” for other words that follow this scheme… garment, commencement, ornament, fragment, etc. The connection to -ment as “mind” is a false etymology, but it's understandable why someone would make that assumption.

The actual word for “government” in Latin is “rectio” or, more relevantly here, “gubernatio”. “Gubernatio” comes from the Greek “kubernan” which means to navigate or to pilot, or to steer. You get the idea. The meaning is preserved into Latin more or less.

This reminds me of that “poly-ticks–>politics” etymology joke.

[...] The Raw Story, July 25, 2010, by Sahil Kapur: LAS VEGAS – Rep. Jan Schakowsky (D-IL) said Saturday that serious deficit hawks ought to get behind a new “robust” public option bill that she and more than a hundred other members introduced days ago. [...]

[...] are trying to leverage DC’s deficit hysteria to revive the public insurance option:Unveiled last Thursday by Rep. Lynn Woolsey (D-CA), Schakowsky, and more than 120 co-sponsors, the measure would give [...]

I've mentioned national health care to the medical professionals I come into contact with. Most express the Fundamentalist Republican hatred of Government sponsored health care while at the same time complaining how Private Insurance Corporations are controlling their practices. One Doctor told me a patient who needed 7 days in the hospital was only granted 2 days. Private Health Care Insurance is over riding your Doctors prescriptions & care procedures.!!

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