The headline never should have read “NJ court: Nazi-naming parents shouldn’t get kids back”. The implication is that the children were retained because of their names, not because of the aberrant and chaotic nature of the family.

Remember the old adage, “You can always judge a person by their friends?”

I bet they don't believe Obama was born in the US either.

I'm just sayin'.

Those poor, totally uneducated people. Shakespeare said something about names. It's unfortunate that Americans would name their children after terrible people and institutions. I'm glad the kids were removed. I hope they fare better in other homes.

Those poor, totally uneducated people. Shakespeare said something about names. It's unfortunate that Americans would name their children after terrible people and institutions. I'm glad the kids were removed. I hope they fare better in other homes.

Just like Obama's own Grandmother. That racist bitch.

Just like Obama's own Grandmother. That racist bitch.

Well, I'd hate to meet your grandmother. Or your mother for that matter. Ugh.

While not knowing the precise details of this specific case, it brings to mind a conversation I had with my oldest son about WHOM THE CHILDREN REALLY BELONG TO TODAY
VERSES WHEN I WAS A CHILD. He stated that they were his children and nobody could or would tell him how to bring them up. I laughed and told him that HE AND HIS WIFE, JUST LIKE THE REST OF AMERICAN (PARENTS) ARE NOTHING MORE THAN CARETAKERS ALLOWED BY THE STATE TO LOOK AFTER MY GRANDCHILDREN, AND I CAN PROVE IT. HE AKED ME TO PROVE WHAT I SAID. I RESPONDED WITH ONE SENTENCE.
TRY PROHIBITING YOUR CHILDREN FROM BEING FORCED TO BE VACCINATED SO THEY COULD ATTEND PUBLIC SCHOOLS. HAHAHA I COULD GO ON AND ON ABOUT THIS SUBJECT MATTER, WHICH IS ANOTHER DISSCUSION, BUT THE FACT REMAINS,DON'T DO WHAT BIG BROTHER SAYS AND YOU ULTIMATELY DON'T KEEP YOUR KIDS.

**I think I know your secret, Apocalypto. You are Adolph Hitler Campbell's Grampa!

That's as disgusting as naming a kid Ryne, or some other former Chicago Cub!

**You don't have to do everything Big Brother says. Many people do not vaccinate their children, and instead home-school them. You and your possibly diseased grandchildren don't have a right to be breathing on MY children all day. Kids are germ-laden. Deal with it.

Grove, you sound crazy.

Children don't `belong' to anyone, because they're not `belongings'…they are little human beings, with the potential to grow up to become healthy, productive (or at least non-destructive) adult human beings.

And chill a bit…typing in ALL CAPITAL LETTERS doesn't impress anyone…it just makes the writer seem strident.

Well, if it's just for the names alone, the parents should not lose custody. However, there does appear to be MUCH more here than meets the eye. But I am loathe to allow the State to take away kids though I have seen a very few instances where it was justified.

AHAHAHAHAHAAAA! You really believe it's “big brother” forcing his ways on you? Let me break it down to you real simple so you can understand:

Vaccinations are a requirement to attend public schools.

Public schools are funded by tax payer dollars aka government dollars.

The government can and does have the authority to provision rules and regulations at these government paid for public institutions

Vaccinations only work when everyone is vaccinated and you deserve to be sued to hell if you send and un-vaccinated kid to a public school and cause physical harm to children because of your stupid assumption that you can do whatever you want where ever you want whenever you want.

This has nothing to do with those children's names and everything to do with people that are mentally unstable and unfit to raise them as parents.

Keep on watching out for big brother though. I'm sure he'll show up if you say his name in the mirror three times. I heard he puts cameras and mics in your cable box just waiting for such an event!

I fear his mother dropped him on his head as an infant and just kept walkin'. Do you blame her? Apocalypto is a good argument for birth control and/or abortion. Why else could some one be filled with soooooo much hate. What a good little republican

So I gather by all that anti-government, anarchist, commie-paranoia drivel that you think these children should stay in this home?

Hinler? Were Albert Spear and Dr. Josef Merenge already taken. Eva Brown?

I'm no paranoid nutjob, but it is not a question of “believing” Obama was born here. He either was or he wasn't. All we have for proof is one pretty weak birth certificate (no original) and two newspaper clippings that would have been there if he were born outside of the us. The rest of Obama's personal records are sealed. Then you have Michelle Obama referring to Barack's home country of Kenya many times when he was running for the Senate and when he was a Senator. It just seems like they should release a copy of the original birth certificate and get it over with. What is the issue with the long form birth certificate that is so mysterious?

No, Enzo. That is exactly what you are – a paranoid nutjob. And I will not argue with you.

Vaccinations aren't about you. They're about the kids and their rights and the state will not permit you to endanger them, parent or no parent.

And if you think keeping kids safe from polio and a lifetime in an iron lung because a bunch of Tea Bagger nitwits and their fellow traveler Libertarians equate their freedom with keeping their kids from medical treatment if they so choose, then maybe you should move to Nigeria. But it ain't gonna wash here.

This is going to sound cold but I could care less if your grandchildren contracted a disease! what I do care about is that they could infect my children or anybody else! The PRICE you pay to live in a “civilized” society is that you AGREE to comply with the RULES that society sets for MEMBERSHIP.
If you don't like the RULES of BEHAVIOR we have DEMOCRATICALLY agree upon get the hell out and move to a third world country where it’s up to you to protect yourself from the ravages of disease you selfish ignorant fool!

So to believe that his origins are “fishy” you have to “believe” that the Secretary of State for Hawaii and the county recorder are in on the “plan”. You also have to believe that his parents had the foresight to have a birth announcement placed in TWO local papers, you also have to believe that the three independent journalists that examined the CERTIFIED copy of the original are in on “it” too.

Further to believe that something is fishy you have to believe that the term Certificate of Live Birth is invalid despite that fact that is ALL any CITIZEN wanting a birth certificate can get from over 16 states.

Short of video of his birth I doubt there is anything that would convince you or the 42% of Repungants that he was born in Hawaii.

So what did his grandmother repeatedly say or do that makes her a racist?

**You have, as proof, a birth certificate, CERTIFIED, no less, than by Chiyome Fukino. Citing her statutory authority to oversee and maintain Hawaii’s vital records, Fukino said she has “personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.
You don't like the proof, so you're going to ignore it.

If you stab your wife with a screwdriver and teach your three year old how to kill someone at age 3 it won't matter how up-to-date you are with the vaccinations, your children most likely will be placed in protective custody by the state, and they ought to be. If your son were doing that to his wife and grandchildren would you stand idly by? Or are you old enough so that when you were a child that was considered appropriate, even laudatory, behavior for men? I spent 25 years of my adult life attempting to put children who came out of families like that back together again. It wasn't very successful-perhaps 20% would stay out of trouble with the law, stay off drugs, avoid alcohol addiction, and not abuse their children at least as badly as they themselves had been abused. Go ahead and conflate these issues if you want but while you're ranting away with your pathetically confused line of drivel you could be volunteering in a shelter, or with a church group, or in a school district to help some poor kid who's on the verge of slipping into shadow because no adult cares for him or her have a decent life. This isn't about vaccinations, it's not about BIG GOVERNMENT FLUORIDATING YOUR PRECIOUS BODILY FLUIDS, it's not about Obama. It's about whether or not you have the moral courage to do something to help damaged and frightened children. If you don't then shut up and get out of the way.

I think the NAMES indicate the aberrant and chaotic nature of the family.

Birther is a codename for racist, plain and simple.

They probably do, but the parents also are protected by the First Amendment. The question is whether or not the children are socially maladapted, not how screwed up their parents are for giving them abhorrent names. If the names are horrid but the children are well-balanced and happy then removing those children solely because of the names would be a miscarriage of justice and would probably elicit a lawsuit against the withholding agency that would be indefensible.

Out of curiosity, why doesn't daddy change his name to whatever his favorite NAZI is? He's willing to saddle his children with them but he doesn't have the courage to do so himself.

Dude. You can't just say “Shakespeare said something about names” then not tell us what he actually said about names! That's just wrong. ;-)

And if the children are not well-balanced and happy, it would still be miscarriage of justice, and it would be improprer and unlawful to remove them from their parents. Laws and government can't make people act the way we would like them to, even if what they are doing to their children is harmful. They must break the law before the law can intercede.

Please define “society.” Who makes the “rules of behavior”?

It would help if you could contextualize the questions as I trust you already know the surface answers to both your queries.

Thank you for being one to help.

Children from abusive families need not only the safety net of regulations and services, but also the understanding and compassion given freely by one human being to another. It takes years before we learn to value ourselves, if we ever do, but without that we can never value and love and appreciate another… which is why abuse is so-often a generational thing. I'm a 4th generation abused child. I elected to have no children. There was no safety net when I was a child, however, and perhaps with legal assistance these children can find a home where they are shown love and encouragement and a desire for education and achievement. Maybe they can grow to be fully human.

After the media hounds find another scent to bark up, and the children get their names changed to something positive, perhaps even by asking what sorts of names they would like, they will still require smiles and hugs and attention for doing and making and being.

I still desire smiles and hugs and attention for doing and making and being. I think it's part of being human. I'm sorry for what you went through but the love and awareness that you so clearly express leads me to believe that you have been able to rise beyond it.

That depends on the degree that they are unhappy or not well-balanced. If the unhappiness manifests as clinical depression then flags will go up. If that depression is caused by abuse or neglect at home then more flags go up. The same applies to not being well-balanced emotionally. The laws we are discussing aren't about requiring that parents be particularly good in that role, the laws address the safety of the children. If the children are in danger physically and/or emotionally then it is in the interest of all concerned, including the parents, that the government become involved. Because the government is involved doesn't mean that the child is automatically placed in another setting, and in most case that doesn't come to pass. To wait until some specific law is broken can be destructive to the child, especially as the agencies involved in these cases usually don't know until the consequences of the broken law manifest themselves in the appearance and the behavior of the child. As a harsh example, the mother uses the food money to buy meth, or trades food stamps for same. The law has been broken but the agency doesn't know, so the child becomes malnourished but that isn't immediately noticeable. The pre-school teacher becomes aware that the child is starting to eat things that are not food and stealing snacks. Furthermore, the child is appearing dirty, wears the same clothes every day without them being cleaned, and is perhaps either withdrawing socially or becoming increasingly aggressive. The pre-school teacher notifies Child Protective Services (s/he is required by law to do so) and the agency contacts the home. This is not an uncommon story arc. The legal issue isn't the meth, the legal issue is the parent's inability or unwillingness to care for the child. Sorry for the long response.

Oops, sorry. I thought your query was addressed to me.

I think he may have been referring to the famous lines from Romeo and Juliet:

“What's in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet.”
Romeo and Juliet (II, ii, 1-2)

I hope the children find themselves in a safe and loving home, where whatever names they are called by are terms of endearment.

“A Wal-Mart in Pennsylvania wound up decorating the cake”
it's almost poetic

In some cases yes. In some cases no. Im not a 'birther' but how is it that he lived a privileged life with a single mother? He lived in Indonesia, Hawaii and else where I think. He went to Harvard. His mother worked for the govt of Indonesia and wrote their economic policy during a time the CIA was heavily involved in Indonesian affairs. I got all this info from National Security Archives and wikipedia.

In the age of photoshop birth certs and newspaper announcements can easily be faked. Politicians lie all the time about being in the military. Bush did. So who knows what else they lie about. I could care less if Obama was or was not born in Hawaii but I do undertand why there are questions regarding his place of birth.

So name your kids Big Stinky Poopy Pants. New Jersey has no right to say what you name your kids. Of course they are good at having there own citizens puking on Phillies fans.

=== popurls.com === popular today…

yeah! this story has entered the popular today section on popurls.com…

Whoa at Deborah's note.

Your caps lock is stuck, Bro.

I actually feel a little sorry for the parents. They are obviously cretins in the most clinical sense of the word and were manipulated and indoctrinated by people who didn't have their best interests at heart. “They don't know no better.” isn't an excuse for setting your children up for a lifetime of shame and scorn, but it would be less expensive for the state of Pennsylvania to counsel the family (with some literacy education thrown in), than to place the children in the foster system.

Clearly, you didn't read the article. Try again.

There's really no point bring up the obvious FACTS that have already been stated. Instead I'm going to give you two words: Hillary Clinton

The Democratic Primaries were brutal. Obama and Clinton really fought it out through the end.

Do you honestly believe one of the most influential families in America would not have exploited Obama's citizenship had it been a real issue? Do you think that the Clinton's would have not already investigated this as a way to get Hillary in the White House?

You're willfully ignorant because you're a sore loser. Sore. Loser.

Here, pass this link around to your other “non-paranoid, non-nutjob” doubters: http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in…

The issue is that THERE NEVER HAS BEEN AN ISSUE.

Oh, there was one tiny issue … that a black man was fairly elected to the most powerful office in the country.

A “privileged life?”

Do you know anything about him?

He worked his ass off.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in…

Now if they lived in Florida, this would be a non-issue as we have a large community
of Neo-Nazi's some of whom are in the state legislature.

Oh, those poor kids.
This news that the parents are seriously compromised is neither unexpected or surprising. Its just sad.
I imagine the same who preached White Supremacy to them are the same ones who molested them as children.

You call going to Harvard Law, Colombia, traveling the world and living in other countries as a child not privileged? Really? Even Obama admits he has had a priviledge life unlike that of real poor Black people.

You don't even hear yourself, do you?

“unlike that of real poor Black people”

And where did I say he was poor? I questioned the statement of “privileged,” or are there only two states of economic being? He was a middle class kid who seized the opportunities given to them, and he was no legacy appointment to Harvard, he earned it.

http://www.biography.com/articles/Barack-Obama-…

I'll bet that they blame minorities for all their problems.

Where did I say he was a legacy appointment? Where did I say he was just given a degree and didnt work for it?

What I said is that he grew up privileged, which he did.
Or is middle class not considered privileged to you?

The word privileged tends to imply some form of entitlement significantly greater than that afford most other people. If you mean he was privileged compared to the average human then yes, he was privileged, but then almost every American is (ironic this issue =even arises considering the purported topic of the thread). But he wasn't particularly privileged compared to the average American. His advantages arose from having a mother and maternal grandparents who possessed a strong work ethic, coupled with a high degree of intelligent he inherited from both parents. When I think of privilege I think of the Kennedys or the Bushes, or even John McCain, whose father and grandfather both were four star admirals.

I accidently pressed 'like' when I meant to reply to your post. Its not a big deal though. Your post isnt obnoxious.

“The word privileged tends to imply some form of entitlement significantly greater than that afforded most other people.”

I agree and that is what I mean but I dont mean Obama hasnt worked hard to get to where he is. I think he is apart of the protected class otherwise they would not have let him be prez.

I think he is particularly privileged compared to the average American because how many Americans do you know attend Harvard Law, Columbia, travel the world and live in other countries?

Also anyone else notice that his grandmother “died” a few days before he is elected president? Coincidence?

I know I am sounding like a 'birther' but I really am not. Hisstory is just full of holes.

While I can understand how questioning Obama birth place while not questioning the birth place of white politicans can come from racism and had Obama shown undeniable truth about his birth certicicate and the 'birthers' still questioned his legal status WICKETT statement would be true. However just questioning Obama when the story sounds odd is not racist.

What I mean by undeniable truth is all Obama has to do is sign a HIPPA form and the hospital can release his records. At the very least the hospital can confirm that he was born at the hospital he says he was born in. To date they will not confirm nor deny that he was born at their hospital.

Just to keep the universe from slipping from its axis I hit “liked” on yours as well. There, we're even!

I confess when I saw “privileged” I assumed you were referring to his childhood. The assumption was made because there can be no question whatsoever that he is privileged now, and acting every bit the part of it as well. What is moot is the point where he crossed over. Not being one of the ever and rapidly decreasing number of Obama fanboys I didn't read his books but I guess it was sometime after he got his Bachelor's. My issue with the man isn't his roots, it's that he seems to have forgotten them.

And as always I am bemused at the commenters at Raw Story's uncanny and unswerving eagerness to derail the topics of threads. I'm not referring to you but to the surrounding culture. Abused children of neo-Nazis morphs into Obama's birthplace. It verges on the ludicrous.

I am surrounded by couples like this here in the backhills….and very frankly its scary. By 'this' I mean disabled, disadvantaged and mentally incapable to positively contribute to society. What is scary is all the therapy and educated people put to work on helping tomarrow's future (these people's children) to fix the damage their parents have created. And no matter how much we love our freedom of speech, our freedom to do what we please within the confines of the law, there is always a public stigma put on some content and NAZI related names must be one of those. Lets not name our children 'Lesbos' or 'Sapphic', either just because we are supportive of gay rights! But its a free country…

You are so right! I worked for Albertsons bakery a few years back and if someone wanted me to decorate a cake for little Adolf Hitler…id just treat them like another paying customer and oblige them…I wouldn't refuse someone named Judas or Calligula either, its just apart of everyday life there. There is such a large variety of LIfestyles and beliefs. However, the whole incompetent parenting thing is really the issue. If you stick out like a sore thumb in a community someone is gonna start talking, so you better hope what they are saying has nothing to do with you compromising your children or you will be put under the magnifying glass.

Being a child of the early 70s, I can agree with this completely. I knew a lot of horribly-named children – things like Sunbeam Rainbow and Unicorn Lovefest… but if any of them were removed from their parents' homes it would have been headlined something like, 'Children Removed from Home of LSD-Dealing Aging Hippies', not 'Horribly Named Hippy Child Removed from Home'

I can testify that you happen to be an expert at your field! I would be launching a internet site quite soon, and your material will probably be quite useable for me. Numerous thanks for all your aid and wishing you all the achievement within your firm enterprise.

nice u hit it on the nose will submit 2 twitter

Strange this post is totaly unrelated to what I was searching google for, but it was listed on the first page. I guess your doing something right if Google likes you enough to put you on the first page of a non related search. :)

I would just like to let you know how much I learn from your website Bookmarked you.Hope 2 be back in the near future for some more good stuff

nice a really p0werful article added to slashdot thanx

Excellent read, I just passed this onto a colleague who was doing a little research on that. And he actually bought me lunch because I found it for him smile So let me rephrase that: Thanks for lunch! Anunturi Romania

I was extremely tickled to stumble throughout this site.I needed to thank you for this Fascinating weblog!! I really loved every small bit of it and I have you favorited to take a look at new tales you publish.