Do half wits count as half a person?

Because if they do, then most of the people in the Beck crowd were half wits, therefore the crowd was at least half what Beck claims

Lawrence O’Donnell sitting in for Olbermann on Monday said at least twice that on a sunny weekend day there was generally about 80,000 people on the mall no matter what else was going on. I don’t know what to make of that. If it is true then If Beck even drew 50,000 additional people there would have been more on the mall than CBS said. One the other hand, we have all seen evidence of Republicans, and FAUX news exaggerating the numbers of their supporters, in at least one case even doctoring pictures to make it appear as if more people showed up.

Having seen evidence of their trickery in the past I am not surprised that CBS chose this method to establish their numbers, nor am I surprised that Beck et al have chosen to bash the professor who made the claim in the first place.

If they hadn’t already gained a reputation for lying and obfuscation people might still believe a word they say, but unfortunately for them, few, besides diehard FAUX viewers do anymore.

In honor of MLK Jr. and Abe Lincoln, I suggest calling them each 3/5 of a person.

CBS did not come up with the estimate. CBS hired a reputable and experienced crowd control/estimation company and the professor. That company and the professor each came up, independently, with estimates. One was 80,000 and the other was 87,000, which is not a statistically significant difference.

I was there from 12:30 AM on the day of the Rally and the mall and side lawn were packed by the time the rally started. People began filling up the lawn in front of the Washington Memorial. Many were still stuck in the clogged Metro, which was so poorly run that day that thousands who began their day early missed the beginning of the event. Everyone there knows that 87,000 is a joke, and that the real number had to be well over 400,000. And don’t forget that thousands are packed in underneath the trees, and cannot be seen in these photographs.

Can we, for a moment, remember the TEA party estimates? The right wingers were way high in their estimates, to the point of doctoring photo’s. I bet the real estimate is somewhere between ten and eleven people at this thing. Realistically.

Estimates?

There is an official way to provide nearly exactly how many people were there. But those satellite photos are not released to the public.

Had the Rolling Stones held a free concert, there would have been similar numbers. And Keith Richards withstanding, there would have been a more cogent message.

O’Donnell needs to provide a source for that statement, not to mention an explanation. The Mall is a big place depending on what you include as being a part of the Mall. The majority of the people on the Mall on a normal summer day are spread out between the monuments and the museums and soccer fields. The figures on both sides are based on photographs (I won’t even bother trying to dispute the eyewitness testimony as it has no weight. Someone up there said they arrived at 12:30; the Beck team asked Skyphotos to survey at 12:00 as that would be the best time, so obviously anecdotal information isn’t worthwhile here).

I have no choice but to accept the scientific methods of Skyphotos as being, at least, thorough, not to mention being based on a method rather than an emotional desire. Simply saying they are wrong isn’t useful. The thing to do is go to their site and find how their method is wrong. You know, critical review. I promise you, however, that isn’t going to happen. Beck fans will simply assert that they are wrong without counter evidence.

Christian patriots have their own “truth” to go with their own history, science, Constitution and Bible.
http://conservativetruth.org/

glenn the beckster’s strategy is to go after a few little rotten acorns(only blue acorns he leaves the red acorns alone)that are lying under the mighty oak when the real problem is the mighty oak.he doesn’t dare go after the mighty oak because that’s who he works for.he’s a corporate whore paid to keep the masses divided so that when the time comes the divide and conquer techniques that worked so well in iraq can be put into action.the teabaggers are getting all riled up.they want to shoot all the illegals and i got an email yesterday which showed a picture of a gun pointing straight at the camera with the words”liberals,this is the only part of the gun you need to see

As a freelance news cameraman, I can point out that Fixed News typically also uses “lens trickery” to suit their agenda… tight closeups on TeaBagger crowds (because that fills the frame with people, making it look like there are more people there), and wide establishing shots on crowds that don’t fit their agenda…

I can’t wait to see how Glenn Beck bashes the scientist that was a global warming denier (interviewed by Beck), who has reversed his position, and advocated spending $100 Billion for global warming defense in his newest book…

Damn. I do so hate it when facts get in the way of hyperbole.

A Hoveround takes up way more space than does a human being.

Is it any wonder that Glenn Beck can’t count?

What about American Patriots just as committed to the USA who aren’t Christian fundamentalists? Where do you suggest they look?

Reichpublicans/blech teabaggers love witch hunts.

I sure hope – no matter what view is held by the people who read this – that people can start being decent enough to stop publicly disgracing women by using the term “teab*gger(s)” to describe others. For those who do not know the meaning of teab*gging – it is the act of a man, who squats down to a woman’s face (usually passed out) and he then puts his genitalia in her mouth.

So whether you are for or against women’s rights, let’s at least give some courtesy to the potential readers who may not know the meaning of the term, who might use it elsewhere, not realizing just how vulgar it truly is…

Thank you!
God Bless America

I sure hope – no matter what view is held by the people who read this – that people can start being decent enough to stop publicly disgracing women by using the term “teab*gger(s)” to describe others. For those who do not know the meaning of teab*gging – it is the act of a man, who squats down to a woman’s face (usually passed out) and he then puts his genitalia in her mouth.

So whether you are for or against women’s rights, let’s at least give some courtesy to the potential readers who may not know the meaning of the term, who might use it elsewhere, not realizing just how vulgar it truly is…

Thank you!
God Bless America

I counted 7 bagillion!

Close.
It’s testicles in the eyes…

Revisionist!

Close.
It’s testicles in the eyes…

Revisionist!

It was 87,000. There are just not that many TeaBaggers. Only Fox News keeps them alive.

it would be impossible to put 1 million people into the Washington Mall. Anyone curious enough to look at the mall would see this as obvious.

If we assume that everyone, on average, used 3 square feed of space there would be no way you’d get 300,000 people in the mall let alone 1 million.
Looking at google maps, you can see that the rough dimensions from the WW II memorial to the Lincoln monument is ~3000. The span of the mall in this area, Including the reflection pool, is about 1,000 feet. From the fly-over video, it’s apparent that the bulk of the people were near the stage with a relatively spare area in the middle of that part of the mall. There was another concentration near the west side of the WWII memorial. You’ll also see from the video that the crowd was concentrated right next to the pool and it thinned out considerably at the periphery.

3 square feet per person, which would be incredibly generous considering all the sparse areas, would net you 333,000 people IF THEY WERE UNIFORMLY DISTRIBUTED.. AND STANDING IN THE REFLECTING POOL. 3000/3 x 1000/3

To get a million people on the mall, you’d need to have a person packed in, every 3 square feet, from the steps of the capitol to the steps of the Lincoln memorial, 1000 feet wide the whole distance.

Unfortunately reason and logic isn’t the forte of the right wing.

The Rolling Stones hold concerts in Football stadiums at $80 per seat. That many people Pay to see the Stones in every city they visit. That also means the the Stones pull in Way more money per city than WhiteStock generated.

The Rolling Stones hold concerts in Football stadiums at $80 per seat. That many people Pay to see the Stones in every city they visit. That also means the the Stones pull in Way more money per city than WhiteStock generated.

your estimates from ground level are not nearly as accurate as aerial photos. Just as you claim planes can’t see under trees (depends on how they’re looking actually), you can’t see through crowds.

See my post earlier. A little simple math and the aerial film make it obvious that there were not a million people there, let alone 400,000.
Also, don’t forget that the Mall bring in thousands if not tens of thousands of visitors every Saturday without Glen Beck. The Park Service estimates 24,000,000 people visit the National mall annually, from around the world (not all Beck fans since most residents of 1st world nations think you’re all nuts). Assuming the bulk are out on the weekends and half the days of the year are sparse/empty due to the weather.. that’s about 100,000 per day on average.. probably much more on nice weekend days.

I thought the term was more prevalent in the gay community. That, I believe, is the general perception.
I don’t ever recall knowing the act being primarily associated with unconscious women. I wasn’t aware it was common on unconscious anyone. UrbanDictionary says it’s often done as a prank on Unconscious people though.
I don’t think you can assume that everyone using the term is aware of sexual assault implications, though that does support your point of asking for a change.

However, it was the Tea party that started calling themselves teabaggers because they were oblivious to the common meaning of the term. It was hilarious not because it’s synonymous with sexually assaulting women, but rather because it’s synonymous with a gay sex act (and tea partiers don’t seem particularly supportive of gay rights).

I believe, in the context it’s used.. it’s meant to imply the Tea Partiers may be engaging in consentual homosexual fetish.

Also, TeaBaggers rolls off the tongue. Near as I can tell, “partiers” is not a real word. It’s certainly not a synonym of Partygoer. :-)

dang, half-wits may pack in at 1.5×1.5′ rather than 3′ x 3′. That messes up all my math.

Hey, does it really matter a big whoop? I think everyone knows that there are tens of millions of right-wing cretins living in America. Luckily they’re not a majority.

Its funny that CBS was the only media that paid for an outside quote based on aerial photography. If any conservatives had done so they might have a shred of credibility. As for the aftermath, anyone who didnt have someone count is just guessing

Hey you stole that from the list of sayings “You know you’re a Repugnant if:”:

Can I get an Amen for that?

Teabagging is a gay thing, girlfriend! Chill.

And they called themselves teabaggers first. BTW

The same measurements they tell their wives about “8 inches.”

I’m not surprised at the numbers. This nation of ours is full of morons who would drool at the chance to show their stupidity.

i personally like the use of “everybody knows” to give your completely arbitrary argument some imaginary weight.

i’ll be you LOVE the term “obviously”

no, it’s not.

it’s in the mouth, yo.

as in a teabag dipping into the CUP of tea.

eyes aren’t like CUPS, man. MOUTHS are like cups.

you’re doing it wrong.

Two thoughts: first, why isn’t beck calling on the government to release the the exact number, because as any rational teabagger knows, they’ve already planted tracking devices in our dental work….But since the government doesn’t want to tip its hand, yet, the number 250,000 sound close, if we count all the voices in their heads.

O’Keefe and Brietbart did the count. So did the people that said Iraq had WMD’s.

Some say that Beck counted only 10 because that is how many fingers he has.

The proper term would be “tea partisan”.

CBS is obviously on the side of the left wing douche baggers..

All one need do is look at how many people a large stadium typically holds — where people are packed in. Extrapolate or overlay that area, and increase some percentage to account for fact that people won’t be as snuggly packed in free seating (with lawn chairs and such). If the OH State stadium can hold about 100,000, it is unlikely that the Beck crowd surpassed that.

“Whitestock” Love it!

“Everybody knows” = “My sister in Phoenix said it’s true.”

to the constitution, which true patriots pledge their allegiance to, and what they know is right.

2+2=4

I like your math

I had a dream and saw 50 million people there, restoring America and waiting for the freedom of their rapture, or something like that, and I wasn’t even present, so take that, “liberal media.”

They are in enough Southern and Midwestern states to make everyone else’s life a bit more hellish, unfortunately.

However many there were, every time one of the teabiggots waved her flag and invoked the baby Jeebus, that New Jersey garage with the weeping portrait of Mary in its cement shed a crystal tear and an angel got a fried wing, so there!

I am an architect, and have years of experience measuring large areas and determining how many people can fit in those areas. I used Google Earth to measure the entire area around the Lincoln Memorial (including the large areas on either side of the treelines adjacent to the reflecting pool.) Using an agressive crowd concentration equal to that of seating at a college or professional sporting event seating, I determined that the absolute MOST people who could fit in those areas (standing shoulder to shoulder breathing down each others necks) is approximately 250,000 people. I don’t believe (base on photos) that the crowd was quite that concentrated. I think a very realistic estimate of around 190,000 to 200,000 people is more likely. If you count all the people on the entire mall (not really fair because those people probably werent there for Beck’s event)….you might get up to 250,000.

There was certainly more than 87,000 that CBS predicted, but I can certainly guarantee you that Michele Bachman’s 1 million estimate is completely and totally IMPOSSIBLE in that small area.

Exactly! That is exactly what I did. I used Google Earth to measure the seating areas for Tennessee’s Neyland Stadium, which seats 102,000. I also measured the areas around the Lincoln Memorial that photos and videos showed to be packed during the Beck event. I extrapolated a crowd estimate of around 200,000 tops.

I did the same with Google. Even if you pack people in there at only 4 square feet per person, you could only fit about 200,000 people….

I based my estimate of 200k to 250k on the sqaure footage of the area via measurements from Google Earth. These measurements assumed the areas beneath the trees were as crowded as the open areas. You CAN NOT fit 400,000 people into that area. Photos showed that the crowd east of 17th street (closer to the Washington Monument) were much sparser density. Frankly I don’t think you can honestly count everyone on the entire mall, as 10′s of thousands of regular everyday tourists visit the mall every day, and thus had NOTHING to do with Beck’s rally. And seriously….you want to count those stuck on the Metro?? Puhleeeze!!! Why not count those that wanted to come but couldn’t afford it?

“let’s at least give some courtesy to the potential readers who may not know the meaning of the term”…

Well thanks to you…now they DO know! Sort of. Teabagging is a gay thing. Nice try though.

Like a few others, I was curious and did some simple calculations from the best aerial photo I could find.

http://www.tranzoa.net/~alex/blog/?p=269

The numbers came out to 70,000. But, the density number I chose (4 people per 10×10 foot area – enough room for lawn chairs or coolers but not much else) could be tweaked, for sure. And, you could get in to things like, well, there were people who wanted to be there but weren’t. Do we count them? Or, there were tourists how may have just stuck around for the entertainment value. Or … etc.

Anyway, it was fun to verify “media” numbers. Surprising, too, and heartening. It doesn’t seem often that the media does well with numbers. Especially when they have an ax to grind. But, my take on it is the 8x,000 number is a reasonable guesstimate.

What might be interesting is to figure out how much money people spent to get there. And, where did they come from?

Fascinating images …LOTS of open green space; wish someone would post side by side overhead images of various events

The green you’re looking at is probably the pond. The aerials don’t show anyone swimming. By that color, I’d say, “Yeah. Me neither.”

Oh I see, this is a witty retort because you are one of the tea baggers. Yes, quite witty, you should be proud of your high double digit IQ, it’s most impressive.

You’re right of course, but remember that they didn’t vote for Obama anyway.

95%+ of the people there will not be voting for Obama in 2012. Of course, they didn’t vote for him the first time either and the President won the election by nearly 9 MILLION votes. Obama’s poll numbers look bleak now but wait until it’s a choice between him and the likes of Newt, Sister Sarah, Huckabee, Romney et al. Hopefully he will win again.

watkins glen NY 1973 600 thousand non stop traffic for two days and night if they had that many in at the mall it would have shut down the roads in washington for days

no one will ever really know the true figures…well..i mean..SOMEONE knows the real number, but we, the public will never know.

…allow me to preface the next statement by saying that I am not affiliated with any party…however the people who are stating that the “teabaggers” and right wing lunatics are a bunch of liars, are proving themselves to be hypocrits…EVERYONE is a liar, it’s human nature…

…I personally like Scuby’s number…all of the information for how s/he came up with the number is right there in the post…

The crazy man was able to draw a large crowd. Yay for the crazy man.

Real news organizations report what really happened. Maybe FOX is more to your tastes.

5000,000 to 550,000 was the right estimate using these numbers;
90,000+- actually there, another 200,000 that were on the the way (highway construction slowed most of them down) but never made, 185,000 who wanted to be there, and 100+- soldiers,airmen,marines and sailors who were turned down for a 4 day pass ( they were mostly from Iraq/Afganistan!)

Aerial photography is the best way to count herds of sheep.

You could count the teeth and divide by 3!

You could count the teeth and divide by 3!

Better yet, let’s find out the racial makeup of the crowd.

It was amazing. I’ve been to Nascar events which hold over 200k people and this crowd was bigger by far.

The bigger story should be that there were no accusations of any kind against any person or political group by the attendees. The Mall was left cleaner than before the event (contrast with images after the inauguration). The crowd cheered the message of MLK, even though the most frequent story of the day was how “white” the crowd was.

The biggest story is how all the accusations of racism were proven false and the only people using racist rhetoric popped over from the Shaprton event. (with black attendees being called “uncle Tom” for thinking for themselves)

Who cares how many people were there? There were no union sponsored buses, everyone there came on their own dime (all buses were privately organized and funded). When was the last time this happened? The people that came care about the nation and don’t want it crushed into a worldwide democratic socialist system. I know there are plenty here that do but there are other nations which offer this system, go there.

We were given a Representative Republic designed to be a classless system. Designed to provide the freedom to the poorest and lowest to achieve anything within their talents. Instead of striving to achieve that classless society we have let ourselves get sucked into a progressive trap of the political class. A system which has protected the wealthy and powerful by making it difficult for new business and almost impossible for the ‘average’ to enter politics. How is it that anyone would vote for the same people making the same promises for over 30 years when each time those same promises are broken? The largest cities in the country with the highest poverty are ALL controlled by Democrats and progressives; like Newark NJ which has been Democratically controlled since 1907.

So argue about how many showed up. Worry about the numbers. But the people who were there know thats not the point. just a little integrity can go a long way. Look at the real issues like how the progressives have utterly destroyed the family structure in the cities. Children have been taught to have children to get money from the state (seen first hand at a local hospital as a young teenage girl and her mother were both pregnant).

And you worry about numbers…

try these numbers:

Detroit, MI (1st on the poverty rate list) hasn’t elected a Republican mayor since 1961;
Buffalo, NY (2nd) hasn’t elected one since 1954;
Cincinnati , OH (3rd)…since 1984;
Cleveland , OH (4th)…since 1989;
Miami , FL (5th) has never had a Republican mayor;
St. Louis , MO (6th)….since 1949;
El Paso , TX (7th) has never had a Republican mayor;
Milwaukee , WI (8th)…since 1908;
Philadelphia , PA (9th)…since 1952;
Newark , NJ (10th)…since 1907. ”

I was in DC on the Mall during this rally. There definitely were a lot of people there, I’d estimate 150k at the most. There didn’t seem to me to be less than 100k and no where near 300k. I’m not sure why other people who were there have such different numbers.

Highway construction? I didn’t have any problems driving into DC last Saturday and got all the way to park, no problem, at GWU campus.

Based on what I saw, largely older and white. There were two distinct groups, the older Americans from mainly midwestern and midAtlantic states, and then families with a “military” look from all over the country. There were very few people of other races present at the speeches and at the rally tiself, but I did see some including one African American woman from Maryland who was evangelizing. There were also a large group of local people who went to see the rally, though were not Tea Partiers and were not there to support their cause as well as the usual number of general domestic and international tourists seeing the sites during our summer season.

I think perhaps you went to a different rally. As a local DC resident who went to witness the event, I was shocked at the mess left behind. I have never seen such mountains of trash before and made sure to photograph the mess. I know that the National Parks staff really had their hands full. I absolutely that there was no violence, at least none I saw. The only moment I felt unsafe was when one out of town attendee threatened me for taking photos of the crowd at the Mall. I suppose he wasn’t familiar with DC law allowing photography in public spaces. I will disagree at the racism comment though. Although I had many pleasant conversations with participants, I saw several t-shirts with racial slogans and heard some pretty shocking comments down by the Washington Monument while the MLK march went on including how Al Sharpton had organized these “pathetic monkeys” to counterprotest. Maybe it was just a few bad eggs who soured the experience for me in terms of race and unity, but I’ve never heard anyone use language like that. It unfortunately tainted an otherwise quiet, peaceful gathering.

I think perhaps you went to a different rally. As a local DC resident who went to witness the event, I was shocked at the mess left behind. I have never seen such mountains of trash before and made sure to photograph the mess. I know that the National Parks staff really had their hands full. I absolutely that there was no violence, at least none I saw. The only moment I felt unsafe was when one out of town attendee threatened me for taking photos of the crowd at the Mall. I suppose he wasn’t familiar with DC law allowing photography in public spaces. I will disagree at the racism comment though. Although I had many pleasant conversations with participants, I saw several t-shirts with racial slogans and heard some pretty shocking comments down by the Washington Monument while the MLK march went on including how Al Sharpton had organized these “pathetic monkeys” to counterprotest. Maybe it was just a few bad eggs who soured the experience for me in terms of race and unity, but I’ve never heard anyone use language like that. It unfortunately tainted an otherwise quiet, peaceful gathering.

Sad that you resort to misrepresentations to protect your position. I have over 1000 pictures personally of the event, the time leading up and following. Anyone with enough energy to look will see my recollection was accurate and yours not so much.

http://www.theblaze.com/blog/2010/08/31/you-probably-couldnt-have-found-a-more-polite-crowd-at-the-opera/

there’s a side by side comparison. in fairness one is in August with green glass and the other in January with cold wind. but that cannot explain everything.

If you would like video of would be disruptors those exist also. These are the people who came from the Sharpton rally with the intent of inciting confrontation but were met with peaceful people offering to pray for them locked arm in arm, as displayed by MLK.

The only mountains of trash were the bags gathered up for removal. by all means publish your pictures.

And, this summarizes the TEA Party/conservative movement in the USA; reality be damned, the “truth” is what I dream not what is.

Why is the racial make-up of the crowd more important to you than the message? Was the message of Dr King Jr less important because much of the crowd was black?

What is better for society: whites who endorse the peaceful christian teachings of Dr. King OR blacks like the leader of the NBBP calling for violence and caskets in the streets?

When blacks return to the ideals of the historic speech they will find many whites are already there. The rally on 8-28 was a massive showing of just that, whites who wholeheartedly endorse the ideals spoken of back then.

There were blacks there in attendance, not only those who spoke. They were assaulted by other blacks calling them “uncle tom”. Alveda King spoke eloquently and was very well received. She has been attacked by black leaders for the crime of sharing her faith and heritage with whites.

There is a pattern for the hatred and racism, it’s not much talked about here though.

you right wingers have zero aversion to lying

give it up. America is moving beyond your failed ideology

beck’s phony ‘restoring dishonor’ rally was just another group of ignorant sheeple being easily terrorized by the right wing corporate owned mainstream media

the message was: fear and hate will overcome rational thinking

you cowardly bigots really believe that

No surprise with your ranking of poverty/Democratic mayors. After all, the top-listed cities represents the largest force of steel/auto industries. No question that the unionized workers would generally support Democratic candidates, hence the NON-Republican mayors. Similarly there is no question that the current poverty stems directly from the trade policies pushed through by “free marketeers” (Republicans and neocons generally) who managed to bring such profitable native industries to a grinding halt.

I don’t really have a position in this, just my observations from the event. I never mentioned if I was on the mall for any particular purpose or as an active participant, I’m surprised you’d try to tack on some kind of political leanings with what I say. Just because my experiences at the rally may not mirror your own, do not assume I come from an opposing political idealogy.

You have not seen my collection, I’m not sure why you’re so sure it’s inaccurate. Assumptions are never good to use in discussions. As a resident of DC who has seen many many rallies over the years, I was surprised by the mess left behind. It was a negative aspect of the rally, yes. Not everything about the rally was perfect and to state that it was is false. It had both great points and not great points, as with any large gathering of people.

I never said there was any intent to incite a confrontation. In fact, I agreed that my experience at the rally, with the exception of the one person hostile about taking photographs of the crowd, were very peaceful. I didn’t see any baiting or aggression from either the Restoring Honor folks or the MLK march people. I did hear really offensive racist comments from some of the Restoring Honor participants though, and that was a very disappointing experience. I am sorry that people had to bring their own personal prejudices to such an event.

Judging by the aerial shot, I’d estimate there are no more than 50,000. claiming “I was there” means nothing. Can you see the whole crowd from your position? Of course you cannot.

You are forgetting all the people who would have liked to be there just to laugh at the inanity, which would bump up the number to something approaching 100 million, literally several HUNDREDS more than even statistician Bachman calculated (or I should say, “required”).

Considering this: ‘According to one Fox News affiliate, “Organizers of the rally had permits for a crowd of up to 300,000 and expected 100,000.”‘

I’ll go with 100,000 which is near the high end of the CBS News estimate which is itself at least scientifically based.

Lame excuse. The policies of progressives have ruined every economy they have touched.

Again, the bigger story is how everyone at the rally endorsed the message of peace and embraced the legacy of Dr Martin Luther King Jr as it was presented by his niece.

It was unfortunate that Al Sharpton chose to disparage the event rather than join with it. The accusations that are thrown at conservatives like racism were shown to be without merit. Those who continue to say such things are revealed as propagandists spreading lies.

again, why is that more important to you? You can think there were 20 and it wouldn’t matter to me.

do you disagree with the message of integrity and honor? Do you think extolling the people to look to whatever faith they have and become an example of honor is bad? You may not agree with any religion (though I could make the case that agnosticism is a form of faith) but where is there harm in telling people to speak truth? Love your neighbor? meet violence with peace? As taught by MLK and others. How do your thoughts on the numbers matter compared to that?

No, its returning to the only ideology in human history to have been successful. Freedom.

democratic socialism is a misnomer. If it becomes real in this country our elections will be little more than showpieces like are now done in places like Iran. That is democracy with a centralized power. You will lose your freedoms and they will be replaced by statist ideals. political opposition will be crushed with guns. I has happened before and happens every time a small group gains power.

The true story of the rally is that Americans are revealed as wanting freedom. This has put the progressive movement on its heals as they prepare to lose congress. Even the old Republicans who gamed the system for power are being thrown out.

I wish folks like you would relocate to Cuba or Venezuela for a few years to see how life really is there before you endorse bringing that system here.

Progressives are and have always been a minority. You have been exposed and are being rejected. The polls are clear.

The overhead pictures of this event don’t make it look very crowded. I’d say about a fifth of the million man. So 80-100K is about right.

why call us bigots? What was said that was in any way bigoted?

You accuse because you hate conservatives. If you hate conservatives you simply chose to believe they must hate you and say bad things about you.

We hate oppression. We love freedom. your rhetoric is an attempt at oppression of the truth. what one quote in context was hateful? Did you even listen to Alveda king or the other ministers there?

From what I encountered on Saturday I would say 80k-120k should be accurate… I found a parking spot on Capitol Blvd…decide from that alone.

How does a sociopath like Beck peddle fear and hate during the week, then on a hot August Saturday have a coming to Jesus moment? This seems like series one to something bigger he is plotting. Beware of the silver gerbal!

News flash… who the F*** really cares? Seriously, is this really that big of a deal? 80,000 nutjobs or 500,000 nutjobs, doesn’t make Glenn any more or less relevant… I’m sure there are more important things we could be arguing about…

hows that koolaid taste?

Put it back in the deck. You can’t win books with the race card anymore. You chose to stand on the sidelines, and I couldn’t go to the rally because I had to WORK!

It’s a sexual act pure and simple. The nitwits among the RWNJs picked the name without bothering to check what it meant. It’s no more or less vulgar than numerous other terms that people use on each other. For some reason, English speakers seem to identify sexual acts with loss of status, or low worth. Instead of “Miss-Manners”-ing this site, why don’t you go ask the teabaggers why they were so dumb as to use the name in the first place?

Oh, please. Given their hysterical shrieking, they don’t deserve the courtesy of a proper term. They picked teabaggers, they’re stuck with it.

You might want to re-read the article. The “expert” who estimated the crowd at 87K does this for a living. You won’t mind, I’m sure, if reality-based folk prefer to rely on his estimate. Oh, and in case you don’t know the worth of eyewitness evidence, feel free to ask a cop or a lawyer.

How about “all those who thought about coming before rolling over and going back to sleep”? Bet that would be a whole eleventy billion people attending Glenn’s rally.

Conservatives would NEVER want an accurate, scientific estimate. This way Batshit Bachmann can keep screaming “Eleventy billion!” at her myrmidons all the way to the elections. Which I hope she loses. By an overwhelming majority.

Let me assure you, before I begin to reply to your babble, that Alveda King is not being attacked “for the crime of sharing her faith and heritage with whites.” That is an outright lie, and not even a plausible one. Alveda King has publicly stated that she does not believe in many of the ideals that the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King espoused. What she *is* doing is lending the King name to the disgusting politics of the Teabaggers. As for the racial makeup of your teabaggin’ rallies, we’ve all seen enough of them to notice that the only nonwhite, non-elderly people in there are tokens. Your leaders attack organizations that work for the rights of Black people and poor people and then the suckers like you piously and hypocritically yawp about how it’s all those mean nasty “cullud” folks that are threatening and assaulting you poor white folks. Well, you can kiss my ass. I’ve heard enough out of the likes of ignorami like you. Scary Failin’ tells you morons to “lock and load” and Bachmann and Fox News keep the drum pounding with the threat of race riots and a racial holy war. And you want me to believe that you’re all bursting with the milk of human kindness? I have had enough of sitting quietly by while liars and hypocrites and “whited sepulchres” try to spin what’s happening.

When, exactly, were you appointed High Grand Panjandrum and official speaker for conservatives? “We hate oppression” indeed. Sure ya do. That’s why y’all showed up at those Town Halls that our elected representatives held for us and shouted US down. You think we’ve forgotten? Those ugly slurs and signs you carried, showing our President with a bone through his nose. You think we’ve forgotten?

Hey, asshole, it’s the uptight panty-sniffers like you who don’t want to give these girls contraception, sex education, or abortions. But you DO want to howl about how they’re popping out kids to get money from the state. Betcha ya didn’t know that the majority of people on welfare are white.

The reason it matters is because those who are calling for honor and integrity are demonstrating a distinct lack of both be refusing to admit to something as simple as lower than expected turn out. Yes many were there, but it was not am many as the event organizers would have us beleive. My issue here is that if they cannot simply admit to a smaller than expected group, how can I trust them to be honest in the rest of their message.

I also have a problem with the religious tones on the message itself. This was not a message to “look to whatever faith they have and become an example of honor” but to look to the protestent christian religion and become an example of what they call honor.

I am an extoller of honor, honesty and virtue. I beleive it is up to every man and woman to govern themselves to the best of their ability. This is the only true way to limit interference from teh government. However, I also do not believe in Jesus Christ as deity and do not except the christian view point. I cannot agree with those who say this is a christian nation and try to make it so. The majority of the founding fathers were agnostic and unitarian. Some were even athiest. What they beleived in was the right of man or woman to make his or hers own choice according to his or hers own beleifs and the responcibilty of government to protect its citizens. After listening to Mr. Beck on numerous occasions, I do not beleive that these are the values he truly holds dear.

I do however respect those that do and are willing to let others disagree with how it should be done. Unfortunettly, many of those who follow Beck are unwilling to have productive conversations but instead threaten with violence and revolution. It is quite disturbing.

And, tell me Mark, what’s the numbers on how recently the states of the cities you mentioned had republican governors? Seems to be conveniently missing from your list there, unless of course you think mayors have complete control over the funds there cities receive? Since you’re so big on speaking truth…

Mark, you can’t seem to see the forest for the trees, can you?

You speak of “poverty everywhere democrats retain power” as if these places are independent countries that govern themselves, and do not exist under a larger system. Let me further explain to you that the effects of policies that are enacted when a president (or any “elected” official) is in office are often not seen until years later. You speak of the unemployment and debt levels as if Obama created them. Do you have a defense for that?

You are part of the problem Mark, not part of the solution, despite what you and everyone else that was at the rally may think.

The sooner you (and everyone like yourself) realizes this, the sooner we might all be able to work towards a common goal of a better country, and stop blaming one side of a two party system that shares the blame for where the country is now.

Mark, since you hate oppression and love freedom for this country and its citizens, you must be all for equal rights for your fellow citizens then, and I should expect to see you at the next rally for gay rights?

You know who else wants freedom from oppression, Mark?
The gay citizens of this country that your conservative republican party seems to not want to allow the simple right of being able to marry who they choose. Talk about oppression.

How can conservative republicans preach about oppression? You whine about “loving freedom” and “hating oppression” while you oppress people and deny them the same freedoms you enjoy. What would you POSSIBLY know about oppression?! Who are you oppressed by?! “Reclaim the civil rights movement” …really?? Do you even understand what the civil rights movement was all about?

You preach about loving freedom and this country and all your party does is oppress anyone who doesn’t believe in the same christian conservative values you do.

Here’s a quick news flash for you Mark, feel free to pass this message along to your rally friends:

The citizens of this country are not all Christian. Furthermore, this country was started on the basis of FREEDOM FROM RELIGION. Do you understand what that means, Mark? This means that not everyone holds the same christian values, and should not be forced to simply because you feel something goes against your beliefs as a christian. The citizens of this country also do not all believe in God and Jesus.

The next country we start I want freedom FROM religion.

How any times can you contradict yourself within a single comment?

“I’ve been to Nascar events which hold over 200k people and this crowd was bigger by far.”

and then: “So argue about how many showed up. Worry about the numbers. But the people who were there know thats not the point”

…. Well then, Mark, if that wasn’t the point then why did you start your post talking about the numbers?

Also: “The bigger story should be that there were no accusations of any kind against any person or political group by the attendees. ”

and then one sentence later: “The Mall was left cleaner than before the event (contrast with images after the inauguration).”

I see, the accusations were saved for after the rally, my mistake.

Not only that, Mark, but maybe you should check your facts before you go pontificating from your a$$, because not “everyone there came on their own dime.”

Now, I know that you and the rest of the conservatives at that rally feel they can speak for everyone there, and everyone in the entire country for that matter, but there were many, many sponsored buses there (many branch tea party sponsored buses). Just because you were dumb enough to attend on your own dime, does not mean everyone else was.

See if you can follow along and repeat after me Mark: “Just because I say something, even if I believe it, does not make it true.”

Why do you keep bringing Sarpton into this conversation? Who cares about Sharpton?? Last I checked the only people he represented were the underclass of mau maus who’s racism is equalled if not surpassed by aryan rights touting close minded biggots like Beck.

Focus on the issue at hand.. it was INCREDIBLY insensitive of Beck to A) not kill himself every morning when he wakes up.. but also B) to try and hold a rally in the name of peace on the anniversary of MLK’s Dream speech.. That’s like George W teaching an advanced quantum physics class on Einstein’s birthday

I’m half surprised he didn’t wait till November to give a speech of in-tollerance on the rememberance of Kristallnacht

I cannot even begin to fathom the kind of mentality it would take to think that this country is OK.. and that NOT moving forward will somehow magically fix all of our problems. I wonder how many Glen Becks there were in the final hours of Rome, preaching on how a return to the ‘old ways’ would bring about better days?

Your leaders are bloated and without ideas.. your followers are the ignorant scum that give the world cause to think negatively of our great country.. and nobody cares about your god anymore

Keeping the people undereducated doesn’t change the truth

and I wish people like you would relocate to Canada or Holland to see what freedom really is…

His comment, Mark, deals with what the original article discusses.

It’s your own off topic (and off logic) rants that are pointless and don’t matter in this discussion.

Off logic rants?
From a tea-bagger?
You seem surprised, my friend…
:)

Bravo, you make an excellent point. I hate when people say this is a Christian nation. That is total BS.

I feel so sorry for all the poor white people who were packed like sardines in those terrible slave ships coming over from Europe! The audacity and outrage of the black Americans to enslave a group of people base entirely on their race. I mean, can you imagine!?!
No wonder so many white Americans are so angry! They never got their apology for their enslavement, and are continually put down by “the man!”

“The policies of progressives have ruined every economy they have touched.”
Really? Like Canada, Sweden, Norway, Netherlands, Canada, UK, Belgium, Spain, etc etc etc? Unlike the US which is fucking bankrupt. LOL.

Lets post that same absurdity once more, shall we?
“The policies of progressives have ruined every economy they have touched.”

The policies of George Bush and Ronald Reagan have bankrupted America and it very well may never recover this time around.
America, the only nation in the free world where a single health crisis can bankrupt your entire family. The greatest country in the world!

From today’s Harper’s Magazine:

Glenn Beck’s 12-Step Plan
By Scott Horton

Writing at the Washington Post, Kathleen Parker offers some frank insights about Glenn Beck:

Despite all the words spilled in evaluating Glenn Beck’s tent-less revival last weekend, the real meaning may have been hiding in plain sight. Beck’s “Restoring Honor” gathering on the Mall was right out of the Alcoholics Anonymous playbook. It was a 12-step program distilled to a few key words, all lifted from a prayer delivered from the Lincoln Memorial: healing, recovery and restoration.

Saturday’s Beckapalooza was yet another step in Beck’s own personal journey of recovery. He may as well have greeted the crowd of his fellow disaffected with: “Hi. My name is Glenn, and I’m messed up.” Beck’s history of alcoholism and addiction is familiar to any who follow him. He has made no secret of his past and is quick to make fun of himself. As he once said: “You can get rich making fun of me. I know. I’ve made a lot of money making fun of me.”

Parker carefully sorts through Beck’s lines for the dead giveaways: the language and thoughts that mark a serious bout with alcoholism. The recurrent traits described in Katherine van Wormer’s Addiction Treatment: A Strengths Perspective perfectly capture the Beck formula: they include an exaggerated self-importance or pomposity; grandiose behavior; a rigid, judgmental outlook; impatience; regressive infantile behavior; irresponsible behavior; irrational rationalization; projection; and overreaction.

“again, why is that more important to you?”
It isn’t, Just responding to your BS. As for honor and whatever the fuck Becks latest self-aggrandizing marketing ploy is, as PT Barnum once said, “there’s a sucker born every minute”.

“Cuba or Venezuela: what a fucking moron. Which part of “free world” ie “Canada, Sweden, Norway, Netherlands, Canada, UK, Belgium, Spain, etc etc etc” did you miss. You conservitards are not in danger of destroying America. You have already done so. Idiot. Glenn Beck is very rich because of the mental shortcomings of people exactly like you, my friend.

You do know that not all soldiers, airmen, sailors, and marines are republican/conservative, god-fearing, bible thumping idiots like you.

“Lame excuse. The policies of progressives have ruined every economy they have touched. ”

Yeah, like FDR.

IMHO somebody put something in your Kool-Aid.

Thank you for your observations.

Facts beat assumptions every time.

Next time take your camera. A picture is worth 1000 words.

Again, thank you for being objective and rational.

Dream on. Rationalization plays a big role in your life, doesn’t it?

Or else it’s a really good snark.

That’s about what I came up with. A lot of people but far less than Beckerhead’s estimate. And let us not forget that there are over 300 million people in the U.S.

There are two worlds most people live in: the world of what they believe, and the world of what is.

I live in the latter, as do most here.

So don’t watch CBS. You have a choice.

LMAO! You are so right!

Wull duh I mentioned the numbers to get you all fired up of course!

All you care about is trying to find flaw with my recollection. I speak not for but about those there. this wasn’t a tea party event. and there is no one tea party. it’s a grass roots thing with no real leadership. some people assumed responsibilities because they could, but they don’t command the group, its the other way around.

If a group got together and went in on a bus that isn’t “sponsored”. When a union gets a bus and people can ride for free, that’s sponsored.

you really don’t know what the tea party is.

Was honor restored? that is for each individual to decide. it was a call to personal honor. It was a reasonable reflection of what the civil rights was under the leadership of MLK.

The mall was very clean, i went back the next day. I have pictures. I don’t care if you choose not to believe me, I’m not invested in what you think. I’m stating here, for anyone willing to get out of the group think here, what I saw. take it as an accusation if you like, i was making a contrast to a prior event. It does reflect on the people who showed up that they cleaned up after themselves. I could equally contrast it to any large sporting event like a Nascar race.

I completely disagree with liberals. The only part I don’t understand is why you are all so extremely angry. Every conservative is shouted down as a racist even though there are black conservatives.

Why are liberals free to intimidate at polling stations like the NBBP yet conservatives accused of voter suppression?

Why do you use my name in every sentence? does that make you feel superior?

Finally, why do liberals hate Christians so much? Why are Muslims, Hindu, Buddhists, and even Pagans given a pass on about everything yet Christians and often Jews are denied forgiveness for a single bad example?

Scuuuuze me?

you don’t have any idea what you are talking about, and obviously you can’t grasp what I was talking about.

You’d be surprised what I know.

Scuuuuze me?

you don’t have any idea what you are talking about, and obviously you can’t grasp what I was talking about.

You’d be surprised what I know.

I’m quick to say there is corruption in both parties. that was the point of restoring honor. If we demand honesty of ourselves we are likely to demand it of our politicians.

Still, it was a fair question so I wasted about half an hour. I may be off a little since counting while scrolling is rough on the eyes but this is fairly accurate… keep in mind there was no Republican party prior to Lincoln. some of my numbers go back to dems and whigs.

Detroit, MI (1st on the poverty rate list) hasn’t elected a Republican mayor since 1961;
The Governor of Michigan is the chief executive of the U.S. state of Michigan. The current governor is Jennifer Granholm, a member of the Democratic Party, who became Michigan’s first female governor on January 1, 2003, when she succeeded Governor John Engler. Granholm was re-elected on November 7, 2006.
Mostly Democrat since statehood

Buffalo, NY (2nd) hasn’t elected one since 1954;
Democrat, 2 to 1 democratic governors since 1800s

Cincinnati , OH (3rd)…since 1984;
Currently democrat
14 democrat vs 15 republican since 1906
Cleveland , OH (4th)…since 1989;
See above

Miami , FL (5th) has never had a Republican mayor;
Democrat governors from 1877 to 1965
4 republican governors since 1965

St. Louis , MO (6th)….since 1949;
42 democrat governors since 1820
11 Republican

El Paso , TX (7th) has never had a Republican mayor;
40 democrat governors since 1847
6 republican (and a spattering of Unionist and independent)

Milwaukee , WI (8th)…since 1908;
12 democrat including current. Since 1848
30 republican

Philadelphia , PA (9th)…since 1952;
9 democrat since 1858
25 republican

Newark , NJ (10th)…since 1907. ”
27 democrat since 1863
22 republican.

I was surprised at TX and equaly surprised at NJ and PA.

Still, the trend weighs that dems run the most debt.

I’m quick to say there is corruption in both parties. that was the point of restoring honor. If we demand honesty of ourselves we are likely to demand it of our politicians.

Still, it was a fair question so I wasted about half an hour. I may be off a little since counting while scrolling is rough on the eyes but this is fairly accurate… keep in mind there was no Republican party prior to Lincoln. some of my numbers go back to dems and whigs.

Detroit, MI (1st on the poverty rate list) hasn’t elected a Republican mayor since 1961;
The Governor of Michigan is the chief executive of the U.S. state of Michigan. The current governor is Jennifer Granholm, a member of the Democratic Party, who became Michigan’s first female governor on January 1, 2003, when she succeeded Governor John Engler. Granholm was re-elected on November 7, 2006.
Mostly Democrat since statehood

Buffalo, NY (2nd) hasn’t elected one since 1954;
Democrat, 2 to 1 democratic governors since 1800s

Cincinnati , OH (3rd)…since 1984;
Currently democrat
14 democrat vs 15 republican since 1906
Cleveland , OH (4th)…since 1989;
See above

Miami , FL (5th) has never had a Republican mayor;
Democrat governors from 1877 to 1965
4 republican governors since 1965

St. Louis , MO (6th)….since 1949;
42 democrat governors since 1820
11 Republican

El Paso , TX (7th) has never had a Republican mayor;
40 democrat governors since 1847
6 republican (and a spattering of Unionist and independent)

Milwaukee , WI (8th)…since 1908;
12 democrat including current. Since 1848
30 republican

Philadelphia , PA (9th)…since 1952;
9 democrat since 1858
25 republican

Newark , NJ (10th)…since 1907. ”
27 democrat since 1863
22 republican.

I was surprised at TX and equaly surprised at NJ and PA.

Still, the trend weighs that dems run the most debt.

There is no reason to admit such a thing. The numbers given by CBS are so far below even what the Huffington Post reported. they are silly.

but since no one lined up to be counted there is room for disagreement on them.

You are very wrong about our founding fathers being deists, Unitarians, and agnostics. You have to read they’re own letters to get past the crap but it’s very clear. They prayed before sessions of congress and extolled the nation to faith.

As for your desire to be agnostic or unitarian or whatever you chose to call yourself, I don’t much care. Most honest self-assured Christians don’t. We would fight for your right to not believe just as our own to believe. your hatred of beck is ill placed.

This was founded as a Christian nation, hence the “in God we trust” on our money. Your desire to deny that is selfish and silly.

Your last comment is puzzling. I’ve seen video after video of people in and around the Obama administration calling for revolution. the FBI investigated the weather underground and the agent testified they actually believed 20% or more Americans would be sent to re-education camps. The founer is a friend of Obama.

Van Jones is a self-described communist revolutionary. from his own lips he praises revolutionaries and communism. Communism is responsible for more death than any single disease or eve war.

Mao, Chavez, Lenin, Marx. these are all talked about by progressive democrats as idealists to learn from. learn? sure. what NOT to do.

Why would the idea of being a Christian nation be more disturbing than being a communist one? America prospered as a Christian nation. turing from those values leads to things like greed, graft, corruption, and misuse of power.

I don’t believe you can find one instance of Beck calling for violence. I can find plenty of footage with libs calling for death, destruction, dead bodies, collapsed economies, famine, disease, etc.

I’m not trying to make you like Beck or convert to Christianity. but the values you say you extol are shared by Christians. The real ones.

Grape. my favorite.

but i prefer a beer these days.

why do you hate it? it is what it is. The majority of Americans call themselves christian and our constitution calls on the laws of nature as being from God and our liberties are endowed by our creator.

Would you say Iraq should call itself a secular nation or would it bother you if Iraqis call it a Muslim nation? What does being a Christian nation take away from you? Why should the minority of agnostics or whatever get to change our heritage against the will of the majority? How have Christians oppressed you?

People hate what they fear. people fear what they don’t understand. hmmmm….

I think we already figured that one out.

Dude …I’ve been astounded reading your rediculous and fact-free diatribes. I’ll only reply to one: Virtulallly all states must balance their budgets each year….Rebpulican or Democratic. It’s the Federal Government where the real debt-making happens, and the facts are irrefutable: Republicans have added far more in deficit spending (per term) and national debt (in total) than all Democratic presidents combined. The worst offenders? Reagan and G.W. Bush. The only federal balanced budget since WWII? William Jefferson Clinton.

Dude …I’ve been astounded reading your rediculous and fact-free diatribes. I’ll only reply to one: Virtulallly all states must balance their budgets each year….Rebpulican or Democratic. It’s the Federal Government where the real debt-making happens, and the facts are irrefutable: Republicans have added far more in deficit spending (per term) and national debt (in total) than all Democratic presidents combined. The worst offenders? Reagan and G.W. Bush. The only federal balanced budget since WWII? William Jefferson Clinton.

Dude …I’ve been astounded reading your rediculous and fact-free diatribes. I’ll only reply to one: Virtulallly all states must balance their budgets each year….Rebpulican or Democratic. It’s the Federal Government where the real debt-making happens, and the facts are irrefutable: Republicans have added far more in deficit spending (per term) and national debt (in total) than all Democratic presidents combined. The worst offenders? Reagan and G.W. Bush. The only federal balanced budget since WWII? William Jefferson Clinton.

Dude …I’ve been astounded reading your rediculous and fact-free diatribes. I’ll only reply to one: Virtulallly all states must balance their budgets each year….Rebpulican or Democratic. It’s the Federal Government where the real debt-making happens, and the facts are irrefutable: Republicans have added far more in deficit spending (per term) and national debt (in total) than all Democratic presidents combined. The worst offenders? Reagan and G.W. Bush. The only federal balanced budget since WWII? William Jefferson Clinton.

Dude …I’ve been astounded reading your rediculous and fact-free diatribes. I’ll only reply to one: Virtulallly all states must balance their budgets each year….Rebpulican or Democratic. It’s the Federal Government where the real debt-making happens, and the facts are irrefutable: Republicans have added far more in deficit spending (per term) and national debt (in total) than all Democratic presidents combined. The worst offenders? Reagan and G.W. Bush. The only federal balanced budget since WWII? William Jefferson Clinton.

Dude …I’ve been astounded reading your rediculous and fact-free diatribes. I’ll only reply to one: Virtulallly all states must balance their budgets each year….Rebpulican or Democratic. It’s the Federal Government where the real debt-making happens, and the facts are irrefutable: Republicans have added far more in deficit spending (per term) and national debt (in total) than all Democratic presidents combined. The worst offenders? Reagan and G.W. Bush. The only federal balanced budget since WWII? William Jefferson Clinton.

Dude …I’ve been astounded reading your rediculous and fact-free diatribes. I’ll only reply to one: Virtulallly all states must balance their budgets each year….Rebpulican or Democratic. It’s the Federal Government where the real debt-making happens, and the facts are irrefutable: Republicans have added far more in deficit spending (per term) and national debt (in total) than all Democratic presidents combined. The worst offenders? Reagan and G.W. Bush. The only federal balanced budget since WWII? William Jefferson Clinton.

Dude …I’ve been astounded reading your rediculous and fact-free diatribes. I’ll only reply to one: Virtulallly all states must balance their budgets each year….Rebpulican or Democratic. It’s the Federal Government where the real debt-making happens, and the facts are irrefutable: Republicans have added far more in deficit spending (per term) and national debt (in total) than all Democratic presidents combined. The worst offenders? Reagan and G.W. Bush. The only federal balanced budget since WWII? William Jefferson Clinton.

Dude …I’ve been astounded reading your rediculous and fact-free diatribes. I’ll only reply to one: Virtulallly all states must balance their budgets each year….Rebpulican or Democratic. It’s the Federal Government where the real debt-making happens, and the facts are irrefutable: Republicans have added far more in deficit spending (per term) and national debt (in total) than all Democratic presidents combined. The worst offenders? Reagan and G.W. Bush. The only federal balanced budget since WWII? William Jefferson Clinton.

You lost me at, “I’ve been to Nascar events”.

Regardless if it was 50,000 or Batshit Bachmann’s Million, there are going on 7 billion people on this planet who just plain don’t give a shit about Glenn fucking Beck.

And when WE stop putting his name in our own mouths that number will only grow.

Stop giving the man what he wants already.

It was a case of an uneducated man, speaking to an uneducated mass. And there were no more than 100,000. A friend of mine writes for a medium size paper in WA. She was there and said it was no more than what CBS related. It might have been a disappointment to Beck and his followers, but the number was not very high. And exaggerating and outright lying don’t make it so. And lying about holding a famous document in your hand does not mean a thing except you are a liar.

It was such a stupid lie. And most are. But it was the fact that he automatically did it. That it popped into his head to lie. And it is not the size of the lie. A lie is just that. It is the fact that he did what he always does, to make things look the way he wants them to. He would still not have admitted the lie, if the woman that runs that museum had not went public and called him on it. He would still be saying it. This is part of the pattern of his behavior. From a troubled childhood to a troubled adulthood. He wants to believe things should be a different way. One he likes and can cope with. One he forces to come his own way. And lying is a way to make it happen. I would make a bet that he has been lying and exaggerating his whole life to make it livable.

He sneers at education because he stopped at the high school level. And no matter how many books he writes and how much stuff in those books come from the sayings of others, he knows he missed a real education. Nothing he writes is new and nothing original. He repackages the words and phrases to look new. But anyone with any depth in education can find them written elsewhere first.

His rabid fans are like him. So he understands them. He counts on the fact that they know no more then he does. He taps into frustration and fear. Without frustration and fear, he would have no audience. He cynically laughs all the way to that well known bank.

And of course if you criticize this man, you hate him. Or are jealous of him etc. What I feel is part pity and part awe for his colossal nerve and part disgust. There is no point to hating this kind of person. They don’t know or care that you do. And it takes too much time and energy to bother.

It was a case of an uneducated man, speaking to an uneducated mass. And there were no more than 100,000. A friend of mine writes for a medium size paper in WA. She was there and said it was no more than what CBS related. It might have been a disappointment to Beck and his followers, but the number was not very high. And exaggerating and outright lying don’t make it so. And lying about holding a famous document in your hand does not mean a thing except you are a liar.

It was such a stupid lie. And most are. But it was the fact that he automatically did it. That it popped into his head to lie. And it is not the size of the lie. A lie is just that. It is the fact that he did what he always does, to make things look the way he wants them to. He would still not have admitted the lie, if the woman that runs that museum had not went public and called him on it. He would still be saying it. This is part of the pattern of his behavior. From a troubled childhood to a troubled adulthood. He wants to believe things should be a different way. One he likes and can cope with. One he forces to come his own way. And lying is a way to make it happen. I would make a bet that he has been lying and exaggerating his whole life to make it livable.

He sneers at education because he stopped at the high school level. And no matter how many books he writes and how much stuff in those books come from the sayings of others, he knows he missed a real education. Nothing he writes is new and nothing original. He repackages the words and phrases to look new. But anyone with any depth in education can find them written elsewhere first.

His rabid fans are like him. So he understands them. He counts on the fact that they know no more then he does. He taps into frustration and fear. Without frustration and fear, he would have no audience. He cynically laughs all the way to that well known bank.

And of course if you criticize this man, you hate him. Or are jealous of him etc. What I feel is part pity and part awe for his colossal nerve and part disgust. There is no point to hating this kind of person. They don’t know or care that you do. And it takes too much time and energy to bother.

It was a case of an uneducated man, speaking to an uneducated mass. And there were no more than 100,000. A friend of mine writes for a medium size paper in WA. She was there and said it was no more than what CBS related. It might have been a disappointment to Beck and his followers, but the number was not very high. And exaggerating and outright lying don’t make it so. And lying about holding a famous document in your hand does not mean a thing except you are a liar.

It was such a stupid lie. And most are. But it was the fact that he automatically did it. That it popped into his head to lie. And it is not the size of the lie. A lie is just that. It is the fact that he did what he always does, to make things look the way he wants them to. He would still not have admitted the lie, if the woman that runs that museum had not went public and called him on it. He would still be saying it. This is part of the pattern of his behavior. From a troubled childhood to a troubled adulthood. He wants to believe things should be a different way. One he likes and can cope with. One he forces to come his own way. And lying is a way to make it happen. I would make a bet that he has been lying and exaggerating his whole life to make it livable.

He sneers at education because he stopped at the high school level. And no matter how many books he writes and how much stuff in those books come from the sayings of others, he knows he missed a real education. Nothing he writes is new and nothing original. He repackages the words and phrases to look new. But anyone with any depth in education can find them written elsewhere first.

His rabid fans are like him. So he understands them. He counts on the fact that they know no more then he does. He taps into frustration and fear. Without frustration and fear, he would have no audience. He cynically laughs all the way to that well known bank.

And of course if you criticize this man, you hate him. Or are jealous of him etc. What I feel is part pity and part awe for his colossal nerve and part disgust. There is no point to hating this kind of person. They don’t know or care that you do. And it takes too much time and energy to bother.

It stuns me every time I see people post things about Beck that is exactly 180 degrees opposite of what he actually says every day. If you’re going to hate him, actually listen to him for a week. Not sound bites, not clips taken out of context, but listen and read what he is really saying.

And frankly, it is the liberal entertainment industry of hollywood that is exported across the world with sex and violence and lack of morality that the world thinks negatively of our country.

Right now, the only hate I am reading is coming from most of the people posting here. The name calling and vitriol is staggering, and mostly the main argument is, “Those people are stupid. Ignorant. Scum.” I can’t imagine what living with that kind of blind hatred for people you don’t even know does to a person.

Again, name calling. Those countries are in deep trouble. In fact, the UK is looking to begin decentralizing their government health care system because it’s breaking down. Spain? You’d actually bring up Spain? They are in a ton of trouble with unemployment (it hit 20% this year, even after pushing the Green Jobs agenda that is being attempted here.)
By assuming that people who agree with the idea of limited government are mentally deficient, you relieve yourself of any responsibility of entering a debate. Is that really how this process is supposed to work?

FREEDOM FROM RELIGION? Could you quote your source on that? I was led to believe that it was freedom OF religion. The constitution protects religion from state interference by the establishing something like the Church of England, which simply became an arm of the government. So what you are actually promoting is the suppression and elimination of all religion, which is in direct contradiction to the constitution.

If states are not independent governing bodies with unique policies, then how is it that some states have lower unemployment and are not drowning in red ink, while others are fiscally in shambles?

As far as debt levels… really? You really want to go there? Yes, during Bush’s term there was deficit spending. People want to blame the wars, but as the CBO has shown, the cost of the Iraq war has actually been less than the Stimulus Bill. I’m not going to defend GWB, because I think his more progressive policies were damaging to the country.

I keep hearing people say, “You people are part of the problem. Stop talking, step aside, so we can all now move forward.” That is a nice campaign speech, but with no details. How do we move forward? What principles are you going to base your decisions on? What historical evidence shows it will or won’t work?

Wow. Now who sounds more racist?

Like the way it happened in Sweden, right? That’s governed by socialist democrats. Or how about Norway? Finland? Denmark? Their freedoms have been lost and replaced by statist ideals, right? Right?

The constitution specifically states that government is NOT to establish ANY religion. What people do about their religious concerns is their own damn business. The business of government is governing. The Constitution does NOT support state-sponsored religion. Read your history. State-sponsored religion is what the first setllers were FLEEING.

You’re quite correct. I would be more than surprised “what [you] know.” Mainly because it’s fairly obvious from your spew here and the delightful replies you’ve received that you haven’t the first clue about anything. Of course I can’t grasp what you’re talking about. You’re not talking, you’re babbling. It’s like trying to make sense of an infant’s attempts at speech. Go sleep off the beer and come back when you’ve grown a second brain cell to keep the first, lonely little thing, company.

However, you are advocating state sponsored suppression of religion. Read your history. While the federal government is explicitly prohibited from establishing a state-sponsored religion, the states did in fact have official religions. You are confusing the tolerance of religions with the establishment of them. They weren’t fleeing the state-sponsored religion, they were fleeing from the suppression of the freedom of religion. Now it appears as if you’re advocating the abolishment of all religions because you wrote that they came here for freedom from religion. It may have been a typo, I was just assuming you meant what you wrote. If it was a typo, then that changes things a little.

Her unproven, undocumented statements you are taking for fact. Don’t you have it backwards? There are actual pictures of the crowd, and after the rally. But she says something that happens to agree with your biases and you praise her for observations (which you are taking at face value.) Yes, take a camera, show the pictures you are describing. Or even take a picture with your phone. But you cannot make the statement “Facts beat assumptions every time,” when your facts are statements that may or may not be true by someone you probably don’t know other than “DC girl.”

Her unproven, undocumented statements you are taking for fact. Don’t you have it backwards? There are actual pictures of the crowd, and after the rally. But she says something that happens to agree with your biases and you praise her for observations (which you are taking at face value.) Yes, take a camera, show the pictures you are describing. Or even take a picture with your phone. But you cannot make the statement “Facts beat assumptions every time,” when your facts are statements that may or may not be true by someone you probably don’t know other than “DC girl.”

Also, newsflash. There were Christians, Jews, Muslims, Mormons, and other faiths represented. Just throwing that out there.

Also, newsflash. There were Christians, Jews, Muslims, Mormons, and other faiths represented. Just throwing that out there.

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Mark Carver, I think you are the one who is wrong about our founding fathers and their religious devotion. First, do you know WHEN “In God we trust” was added to the money? I’ll give you a hint, it wasn’t by our founding fathers…it was first put on a coin in 1864 (almost a century after 1776) and not on paper money until..drum roll…1957! (great fact checking btw) As far as our founders, have you ever heard of e was also very close with George Washington)…he also wrote “Age of Reason” you should check it out, it’s an amazing breakdown of the many MANY contradictions and craziness that is the bible. Ever heard of Thomas Jefferson? Ever heard of the Jefferson Bible? Jefferson rewrote the gospels removing ALL elements of the super-natural!! Ever heard of George Washington? Many bishops stated that he did not attend church and nobody ever saw him take communion. Also, Gov. Morris, who was a frien of Washington said “he believed no more in that system [Christianity] than he did”. Washington also said in a private letter (like you said we must read) that the United States was founded on freedom and not on religion. Were there Christians among the founding fathers? Of course. However,the historical record seems to say that many were DEFINITELY not(including many prominent ones), and it is quite clear that ALL of them sought to SEPARATE church and state and thought this country was founded on freedom(including freedom FROM religion) and NOT founded on Christianity at all.

The phrase “from God” does not imply the “Christian” god, Muslims, Hindus,and DEISTS use the exact same phrase..and a deist would also say creator because by definition they believe in a creator just not the Christian idea of the creator, or the bible, or the Christian dogma. Secondly, Iraq WAS the most secular nation in the middle east and was routinely denounced by Osama Bin Laden and other Muslims as being far too secular.(use Google) Third, “how have Christians oppressed?” Seriously? You’re really asking that? Here is a VERY short list…the Inquisition, burning “witches”, saying “god hates fags” and denying people the right to marry even though the equal protection clause of THE CONSTITUTION CLEARLY applies in those cases (same thing as saying black people can’t marry white people, which good Christians used think), the monkey trials (use google), the constant and repeated attempts to slow and/or stop scientific progress, seven state constitutions officially include religious tests that would effectively prevent atheists from holding public office even though the u.s. constitution expressly forbids that, and i’ll wrap it up with a quote from Bush: “No, I don’t know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.”. I don’t hate religious zealots but I do fear them, BECAUSE I understand. And by the way, “will of the majority” isn’t always right and shouldn’t always rule, if it was the rule of the majority that black people should remain slaves should we do it? (it was the will of the majority when it was outlawed) The “will of the majority” needs checks too (aka the supreme court and others) because just because it is the will of the majority doesn’t mean it is right! (think lynch mob/slave owners/anti civil rights people/etc/etc/etc)

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