…errr, capitalism.

“as oil gets more expensive, extracting it from difficult places becomes more profitable. Some argue this process could continue for decades.”

And some argue that alternative technology will advance so rapidly that current assessment of this curve is a folly. I can understand why Military needs to consider it and prepare for the worse, but hey guys, chill out.

errr, non-capitalism

Yep, it’s Peak Oil time … actually we are already past peak oil … what they count now as raw crude can be anything from natgas liquids to tar sands. Fine except these substitutes do not contain the energy of raw crude …

If anything all economies will collapse. This is because only through geometric growth do our financial systems work. As it becomes apparent that debt is increasingly unlikely to be defaulted the banking sector collapses taking the money supply, that they create through fractional reserve banking, and the economy along with it …

Peak Oil Primer :

http://energybulletin.net/primer.php

Technology takes energy … lots of energy … just look at the server farms for the internet.

One needs to understand EROEI … energy return on energy invested … this includes all the energy it takes to produce the drilling equipment, finding the oil, drilling the oil, transporting the oil, refining the oil and distributing final product …

The first Saudi oil only needed 1 barrel of energy for 100 barrels of oil … the aggregate figure for current production is around 5-10 barrels per energy barrel invested and as we go deeper, farther out to sea, to intemperate locations to drill heavier and heavier crude the returns on energy invested will grind down until it is no longer feasible to use oil for most everyday uses as the price skyrockets.

I was thinking more along the lines of energy derived form sources other than fossil fuels.
There are some who say we could be completely off oil within 25 years with CURRENT technology, let alone what’s around the bend.
Others say that the new alt technology curve will possibly be ahead of the dropping oil supplies, and eventually it”s cheaper to use alternatives than to drill deeper.
The more time goes on, the more this sounds like the millennium “sky is falling” warning.

Unrestricted energy usage and anti-conservationism is at the core of American Identity. When Peak Oil really takes effect, WW3 will break out with the USA against the rest of the world, again, “to protect our interests.”

Unrestricted energy usage and anti-conservationism is at the core of American Identity. When Peak Oil really takes effect, WW3 will break out with the USA against the rest of the world, again, “to protect our interests.”

Maybe we should begin a massive effort to get off fossil fuels. Just a thought.

Gee ya’think?

seriously…

Prepare for the future- it will look alot like the past except with weapons of mass destruction and machine guns

There are lots of untapped technologies… alternative fuel sources that one could have on hand. Look at ethanol. Model A’s and Model T’s of the 1920′s ran on either ethanol or gasoline. In Brazil ethanol is widely used. It doesn’t need to be made from corn, it can be sugar, wheat, potatoes, HEMP. A company in Canada is coming out with an Electric Hemp car. We need more of those. Legalize Hemp and there will be another alternative fuel that can substitute fossils when practical. The oil companies don’t want people to use too much alternative energy unless they can have a patent on it. Lighting is cheaper, I’m surprised this article is so doom and gloom, in Germany they use lots of alternative energy compared to here. Do they create fuel from Hemp over there? Hemp Oil or Ethanol? Hemp dude, all we really need is Hemp and Flax – go ahead and laugh, but it’s relatively true. Hempcar.org solventfeepaint.com

Ethanol takes more energy to produce than it delivers. No biofuel is scalable to meet our current demand for oil … Only sugar cane has proven to generate more energy than it uses to grow ( plant, fertilize, harvest) and be processed … There is not enough sugar cane to fill the oil space with product and tearing down forest to create fields is counterproductive …

Technologies merely transform energy, they do not create energy …

There are other sources of energy but they don’t have the scalability nor the transportability of oil … Sure we can use batteries, but where do we get the materials for batteries. There is not enough lithium in the world to satisfy transportation demand … Then there are the rare earth minerals that are needed that will run out as well.

There is only one outcome from peak oil … less energy going forward …

The Iraq war really was about oil, and you’d be a fool to think we’ll be leaving anytime soon.

Peak Oil was the topic of discussion at Bush/Cheney’s Energy Task Force meeting, and what happened a few months after its first meeting with Big Oil? 9/11, followed immediately by prominent voices within the Bush admin beating the war drums for invading Iraq. A few months prior to 9/11, Bush floated the idea of flying a spy plane painted in UN colors in the hopes of luring Saddam into shooting it down, thus giving the US the pretext for invasion.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/bush-plotted-to-lure-saddam-into-war-with-fake-un-plane-465436.html

9/11 simply provided a different rationale for the invasion of an oil-rich country.

News that our government thinks, and that it is operating under the assumption, that we are in/past Peak Oil stage would be far too catastrophic for the nation and would lead to widespread civil unrest.

That is also why we started our slow creep to a closed society. Fascist society have populations that are easier to control than those in free societies.
Our political leaders don’t fear hispanic immigrants and superscary muslimofascists–the (mostly) brown people, you’ll notice–, they fear us and what we’ll do, how we’ll behave, and who we’ll blame if/when we discover that we’ll soon be out of oil.

Fortunately, America is not at risk of collapse. We’ve been a fascist state since the coup d’état of 2000. Thanks, W.

Thorium reactors can corrects any peak oil concerns within 5 years if we force our government to work for us instead of corporate interests. The big issue is “peak phosphorus” though.

As a Rothschild/CIA Mk Ultra Victim now Under Protective Custody,,that was used to store there records,,
Maybe 20 years ago,,the CIA stored something about energy,,
I think it was called Cold Fusion,,That it was already developed but governments wouldn’t allow it..
Of course the Rothschilds/CIA controlled many governments,,so in effect they have been preventing new energy technologies…

Interesting comment and I agree except that our current demand is inflated. People waste gas. Our country, the US, has become to fat and lazy. People drive that three or four blocks to the store instead of riding a bike or walking. They let their cars idle talking on the phone for an hour, etc. As far biofuels, yes you are correct again in that they are not scalable and the process is a net energy loss but big oil and or big business and or the government has not thrown their weight and money at this problem. Unfortunately there is not one single source that will replace oil but we will have many options, biofuels from algae, farm cellulose waste (not food), solar, etc. It took only ten years to go to the moon we can replace oil.

Do we really believe Big Oil would allow such a thing?

Geez are you Debbie Downer or what ?

With the right cookers, ethanol can be made from anything organic, including leaves and grass clippings. I had blueprints 22 years ago for homemade ethanol and carburetor conversions. But no one will listen. Everyone is brainwashed.

By the late ’70s, after two OPEC oil embargoes, there were many plans for freeing America from oil addiction. Reagan, the first full-time corporate whore to defile the White House, killed everything. And here we are.

Thorium can only produce electricity which is a poor replacement for oil. The problem is transportation fuels. There are not enough materials used for batteries to replace our transportation energy needs …

We will have to get used to less energy overall as oil is used to build and transport all our other energy sources … The most likely replacement is natgas which presents severe transportation and storage problems of its own. The current distribution system for gasoline is not compatible nor are our engines and fuel tanks …

With current usage of oil replacing it with natgas would only be a very temporary measure.

I agree. I may not be around to see it but life will be very different. Yet people adapt and who’s to say they won’t believe they are better off. It will be easier to believe when those with memories of the good material life are gone.

The outpatients are out in force tonight.

Read this : Peak Oil Primer

http://energybulletin.net/primer.php#next

The question becomes where do you get the energy to cook the biomass, make the equipment and conversion. When peak oil really hits credit will go away … the financial system will be crippled …

You’d better be ready with your own power … solar or wind and the necessary equipment .

Just a realist … When talking about peak oil the longer we wait to confront the issue the worse the consequences.

Yes our current demand is inflated … but look at China and India … Millions of new cars every year. And this is true around the world … it is called growth … and growth with a shrinking supply of energy is impossible …

The replacement of oil is going to be infinitely more difficult than going to the moon because of all the sunk cost in transportation and oil recovery and distribution systems. The big question is will there be any money left to convert once the financial system has collapsed.

American democracy was collapsed some time during the Reagan administration.

“a failure of market economics as a whole — and with it, the political institutions that created those economic systems”

Uh…NO. Democracy would never in a million years create capitalism. Capitalism came first, then the limited amount of democracy we have was won by an immense struggle.

Yes, it’s called cold fusion. It’s not so much that the government has been blocking it, as many independent scientists have built their own reactors, it’s just that the energy input to start the fusion reactions is far greater than the energy output, when it is the opposite you want in a power plant.

No, I just know what I am talking about. A simple google search will show you I am correct.

No, I just know what I am talking about. A simple google search will show you I am correct.

Peak phosphorous is worrisome, but human urine is one of the few natural sources of phosphorous. Many sewers and waste treatment centers, including my local one, are in the process of designing phosphorous removal into their treatment plans to combat that issue.

I’ll say it again -Carter was right.

Exactly, we need to prioritize our oil usage. Grandma going on a Sunday drive ain’t going to cut it anymore. There are more important issues like maintaining infrastructure while we build a truly efficient and sustainable one.

In the meantime we should all be figuring out how to do more with less. I’ve reduced my consumption considerably while still maintaining a high standard of living.

Jimmy is a professional military officer among his other credentials. He talked about this in 1976.

All the reichies can remember was that there was a (phony) gas shortage during the Carter years.

As Richard Heinberg has called it, welcome to The Century of Declines…

Fossil Fuels
Phosphorous
Water
Rare Earth Metals
Arable Land
etc.

… we’re set for a rude awakening.

And for the sake of argument, think about this quote from the article:
“Deals would be struck between oil-exporting and oil-importing countries that would fix prices and remove large amounts of oil from the global market place.”

And then wonder where (despite Obama’s recent rhetoric) America has the largest embassy in the world, multiple mega-bases, and the skeletal framework for a lasting occupation:
Iraq

And then let’s think about one of Cheney’s speech in 1999:
“Producing oil is obviously a self-depleting activity…
That means by 2010 we will need on the order of an additional fifty million barrels a day. So where is the oil going to come from? Governments and the national oil companies are obviously in control of about ninety per cent of the assets. Oil remains fundamentally a government business. While many regions of the world offer greet oil opportunities, the Middle East with two thirds of the world’s oil and the lowest cost, is still where the prize ultimately lies, even though companies are anxious for greeter access there, progress continues to be slow.”

And then wonder, does American foreign policy indicate that the government has been preparing for this event?

Dont worry..
Republicons say that it is a hoax.
High Priestess of the American Taliban Sarass Palin says drill baby drill.
We progressives are sheeple of science.
Jesus will save us.

The perception of scarcity. If it is so scarce, why is there a cartel to control the price?

We didn’t invade Iraq to get their oil as much as to get control of the flow and price of their oil and what currency was used to buy and sell it. It is about controlling markets.

They poked one hole deep in the gulf and look how much oil spewed out.

I am beginning to believe in the abiotic oil theory.

I still think we should develop cleaner alternative energy sources because of the pollution that oil generates.

German military “leaked” the report – is back into policy making and daily politics and of course its industry backers. Draft is discussed and professionalizing and overhauling the force for offensive use is under way. Looks like Germany is using the Afghan Expedition to recast itself into the leading european force. Britain again cannot afford a large and modern standing army. Germany owns the EU – of course with France` consent and hiding behind the atomic maginot line. A such german dominated Nato will sideline the US occupation of Europe and who would have thought that within 10 years unipolar US policy will be replaced by multipolar German interests.

What’s up with the misleading headline and story?

Why would democracy collapse? Why would a democracy collapse due to a shortage of oil? Why would a democracy collapse due to a shortage of oil other than for the reason that those in power would transform themselves into dictatorships?

What a bunch of shit as if abandoning the free-market has anything to do with a democratic government.

By the way, it sounds like the German report is laying out exactly what they and many others want to have happen. This is a smokescreen to cover up the anger of the people not at the “failure of the free market” but at the ploys of the ruling elites to enslave or kill the masses so that they can continue their lives of luxury.

You see, I’m one of those already preaching “ideological and extremist alternatives to existing forms of government,” and it has nothing to do with peak oil. It has to do with the criminal, corrupt gangs who run the world at their pleasure.

Secret Ruling Elite Report: We need an excuse to destroy democracy and reinstall monarchy with feudalism.

It always makes me laugh when people confuse Capitalism for a free market. We have never seen a true free market in the western world.. A free market is just that free.. Free from any kind of government control. No tax, no IRS, no subsidies, just trade between two parties.

And for all of you that think Democracy is the answer?? My God, that is what got us in to this mess in the first place.. Democracy is just like two wolfs and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch.. What we need is to go back to a republic under law. A law that applies equally to everyone, including our leaders. No one rule for one, and another rule for anyone who is lucky enough to be in position of power and influence. This was established back in 1215 in England and 1776 in America.. It’s called common law. Sadly been eroded since while we were all sleeping with full bellies.

There are many better ways of producing energy. Firstly we could open up the patent office and see what inventions big oil companies have been sitting on for years.. Surely we have come to a point in human history where it is time to start doing things for the good of all, patents, just like copyright law should be a thing of the past..

Also look up thermal depolymerization, it takes only 15% of the potential energy produced and almost anything can be recycled from plastic bags to cow poo..

The biggest problem we face isn’t a reliance on oil, it’s a reliance on big government that wants to make all the decisions, leaving us, the people, as useless surfs..

Get on it, Mr. President…end the war in Afghanistan and Iraq for real, while you are at it.
From UK Telegraph…where is corporate American media on this? Oh, would big business object??
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/7970619/Obama-could-kill-fossil-fuels-overnight-with-a-nuclear-dash-for-thorium.html

Obama could kill fossil fuels overnight with a nuclear dash for thorium
If Barack Obama were to marshal America’s vast scientific and strategic resources behind a new Manhattan Project, he might reasonably hope to reinvent the global energy landscape and sketch an end to our dependence on fossil fuels within three to five years.

Amen Bobby, a very articulate post and 100 percent correct.. Tesla was playing with all sorts of things over 100 years ago that could end our dependence on the black stuff almost overnight. Unfortunately, it’s under lock and key.

This article is complete propoganda bull$hi!.
As the Russians discovered decades ago, oil is not a fossile fuel and it is not peaking. Oil is the planet’s tectonic plate’s natural lubricant, made deep within the earth. It’s why so much drilling is taking place at the depths we’re seeing now. The setup we have with OPEC is a sham to buy their oil while they buy our t-bills. This arrangement is meant to keep a stranglehold on oil profits. Any one or organization that comes out talking about peak oil and the end of civilization cannot be trusted, for they are lying.

Of course it will. Once Peak Oil prevents access to cheap oil, ALL of civilization will be IRREVOCABLY changed. In fact, history will record the the 21st century was the turning point of the human species after a population explosion that took place because of cheap oil. After human civilization collapses, the Earth will slowly return to normal – after Climate Change has been re-balanced.

Explain to me how the law was applied equally to black people in America in 1776?

Boys and girls, time to get ready those sail boats and mules and plows. Polish up those bicycles while you’re at it. It is plenty OK with me to not have all those cheap, toxic goods from China, et al. I used to eat seasonally from the garden and orchard. I can learn to do it again.

“Why would democracy collapse”
Because oil is key to making just about everything we depend on from fertilisers to tyres to plastic bags. And our food chain, from farm to supermarket shelf, depends on it.

If your govt couldn’t ensure food, electricity or security what do you think would happen?

Do yourself a favour and watch “Collapse”. (Trailer here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAyHIOg5aHk )

it’s going to be kind of strange to see if there will be wars to get the last few remaining drops of oil whenever that turn down in production occurs. Will countries be smart enough to have pushed alternate supplies of electricity and fuel for cars? There isn’t a person in this country who’s life doesn’t depend on oil for living or working. This country needs to be covered in wind farms

You are a moron. Just a complete, uneducated moron. Go read a geology book.

There is truth here. The difference this time is that we have armed the serfs!

What do you mean “if” there will be wars? We are already in Iraq and Afghanistan setting up puppet governments that cut deals with oil companies.

Cold fusion is an open question, but bringing the Rothchilds into it is absolutely deranged fruitcake.

If you want a family to blame, try the Koch Brothers (evil Christians, sorry). Google that, chum.

Cold fusion is an open question, but bringing the Rothchilds into it is absolutely deranged fruitcake.

If you want a family to blame, try the Koch Brothers (evil Christians, sorry). Google that, chum.

Cold fusion is an open question, but bringing the Rothchilds into it is absolutely deranged fruitcake.

If you want a family to blame, try the Koch Brothers (evil Christians, sorry). Google that, chum.

Otherwise known as abiotic oil. I’m from Missouri. Show me the evidence for abiotic oil before you jump to your conclusions.

Good point.. It wasn’t..

Although it should have been..

Section 1 of the 1776 virginia declaration of rights for example states- That all men are by nature equally free and independent and have certain inherent rights, of which, when they enter into a state of society, they cannot, by any compact, deprive or divest their posterity; namely, the enjoyment of life and liberty, with the means of acquiring and possessing property, and pursuing and obtaining happiness and safety.

Sadly the despicable mind set of many Americans at that time saw black people as “property” which as stated in the declaration of rights, is every man’s right to own.. I believe this is how they justified it to themselves.

The law that was written down made no mention of race.. The people who interpreted it were obviously a bunch of racists..

No different from today really I guess.. The law is there, but people choose to interpret it to suit them selfs..

Personally I think there need only be one law- “Don’t be a C**T”..

Thank you for picking me up on that though Ranmac, it made me think a little wider.

Peace

What democracy???

Oil is not a fossil fuel

Peak oil people like to forget that things can be made of wood and metal (and other materials). You can figure out a replacement for petro fertilizer.

Cold, cloudy Germany has successfully fostered one of the most productive rooftop solar electric resources in the world. The project was so successful, with homeowners and businesses feeding power back into the grid at a profit, that the subsidy on collectors was cancelled or scaled back — I’m late for work or I’d look up the details.

They have a “yes we can” attitude, where American has a “free market” attitude, which means profit for a few is better than progress for all.

I’m stationed in Germany, married to a German woman. Germany definitely does NOT have a “yes we can” attitude about things, but they are no idiots, and as far as alternative energy goes, their attitude could more accurately be described as “hell, we must!”

Yea, but the die off is going to make the bubonic plague look like a picnic. Even if we go on a crash program now, it’s going to be ugly. Worst possible combination: Global Climate mess at the same time we need alternative fuels and more ag.

You couldn’t be more deluded and people like you are the problem. The longer we wait to get off Oil, the greater the die off is going to be when we run out of it.

http://moravings.blogspot.com/2010/09/suddenly-jimmy-carter-looks-far-more.html

excellent article. thanks for the post. fascinating, if scary, stuff.

Mo Rage, the blog

http://moravings.blogspot.com/2010/09/suddenly-jimmy-carter-looks-far-more.html

excellent article. thanks for the post. fascinating, if scary, stuff.

Mo Rage, the blog

What I can’t support is a free-market model that doesn’t allow for regulations establishing minimum worker safety and health standards, minimum wages, product health and safety, etc. If that’s the kind of government interference you opposed, then I’ll have to respectfully disagree.

Nor is an unfettered free market likely to respect the environment and refrain from poisoning the air we breathe, the water we drink, the food we eat, absent government regulations. Even Milton Friedman said that business behavior destructive of the environment was not likely to end by market pressures alone, because such behavior is more profitable than environmentally responsible behavior.

Finally, your disparagement of “democracy” is also misplaced. Democracy is not defined solely by majority rule, but, coupled with individual and human rights, by the level of participation by the people in their own self-government.

suddenly, it makes Europe and all their mass transit look far more workable, usable and sustainable than that sprawled out, unworkable United States, doesn’t it?

Actually, I could see this kind of collapse precipitating a physical breakdown of the US, where the South becomes its own state, Texas, it’s own, the Northeast another, etc.

Mo Rage

Hemp produces four times the amount of ethanol per acre than does corn. It also produces about a similar ratio of pulp for paper relative to timber. It was the robber barrons who stole hemp from us – the timber interests. Henry Ford built an automobile out of hemp. It’s time for it to come back.

I just have one bone to pick with you here. You believe that people justified their treatment of black people because they thought it was just a matter of property rights, which no one else or the government had the right to interfere with.

I’m sorry, but most people don’t think or act within the tight limits of your ideology and its definitions. People can only consider others as property if they don’t consider them human beings, or consider them inherently inferior human beings, not “men [who] are by nature equally free and independent and have certain inherent rights.”

White supremacy was its own “justification.” Consider the reaction of one Confederate senator, for example, to General Lee’s offer of emancipation to any slave who fought for the Confederacy. He said (and I admit I’m quoting from memory, based on Ken Burns’ Civil War documentary series): “Either the black man is inherently unfit to to serve, or our whole theory is gone.” That whole theory, of course, was not one based on declarations of property or other human rights, but of white supremacy itself. Nor was that Confederate senator’s statement the only example.

Sorry, I meant to cite this from the Confederate senator: “Either the black man is inherently unfit to to serve, or our whole theory is WRONG.”

Sorry, I meant to cite this from the Confederate senator: “Either the black man is inherently unfit to to serve, or our whole theory is WRONG.”

as said above and time and again—Ethanol takes more energy to produce than it delivers. We should bail on ethanol completely, whatever they’re proposing to burn.

Mo Rage
the blog

Is it too late to invest in hemp?

Amen. But I’d still like to know what “ideological and extremist alternatives to existing forms of government” you advocate.

Could? Will.

The serfs were armed 1000 years ago as well. The “masters” had certain advantages then and they still have them now: 1) They were significantly better armed. 2) They were considerably better organized. 3) They were skilled in dividing the opposition so that it was fighting against itself. None of this has changed in the intervening millennium. Even if the serfs are armed with heavy caliber machine guns that isn’t going to do much damage against an Abrams tank and as far as picking off that Predator or F 117 goes… Then again, this thread is about the chaos that undoubtedly will ensue when oil depletion begins to fold the global economy; guess who’s going to be sitting on the most oil. Hint: it won’t be the serfs.

I agree: “We didn’t invade Iraq to get their oil as much as to get control of the flow and price of their oil and what currency was used to buy and sell it. It is about controlling markets.” But I’d go further: it’s about empire, one that seeks to control others by “controlling markets” and, more to the point, controlling resources. That’s all war and empire have ever been about.

The U.S. and its most empire-oriented elements (the neo-conservatives) want to control access to oil by other, and potential, rivals – including our erstwhile European allies. The U.S. is far less dependent on Middle Eastern oil than Europe, China or India.

I’m not denying there’s an economic motive too, especially by oil companies – like those given the “rights” to Iraqi oil (the BP gained that right by their government’s support for the invasion) – but every political-economic system (and any policy it pursues) has more than one constituency, each with its own motives and interests to pursue.

I think anuran agrees with you. S/he was talking about Kayttt, not you.

Not just deranged, but anti-semitic.

This is true. The only reason I can come up that this is not being done is because it is militarily important. We must have some secret projects utilizing it and fear that other countries will use this technology to give their military capability a quantum leap forward. It seems inconcievable to me that this technology was not developed decades ago. However, I could be wrong on this matter.

We need an X prize for a demonstrated engine that can drive a car getting the equavelant of 100-200 MPG. The prize could be 1 billion dollars free and clear of taxes. This would be the best investment imaginable. A billion dollars falls from Congress’s fork at breakfast and would not be missed at all. People and coorporations would be tripping over themselves to win the prize.

Your history is off, but ok.
Its the numbers that are eye catching. The armed forces in the US are about 3 million including police and reserves. How many gun owners and how many are veterans? How do lock down armories that are run by contractors. It’ll be more then machine guns.
Tanks are useless in cities. Stalingrad! Gun owners also appear to be better shooters.
Don’t put too much faith in modern weapons. Have they fixed the raptor so it works in the rain yet?
Get a copy of jane’s.

more fucking drama and lies from the warmongers… we have the technology to transform the world with alternate forms of energy. it simply takes the will to do so…

And the resulting reduction in emissions is bad? I don’t see a problem with this.

Every recent society has had to adjust as it destroyed its natural resource, be it trees, lakes, farmland, fish, or even other societies.

There is way less wood out there than fifty years ago; we’ve been busy clear-cutting the planet, just in case you haven’t been paying attention. If we as a species find ourselves in a place where we have to rely on our forests for fuel we will find ourselves living on a desert in short order. As far as metals are concerned a few thoughts: 1) their processing from raw ores is energy intensive; 2) the vast majority of the surface ores already have been mined; 3) their fabrication into usable form once again is energy intensive. We have enough coal to last a bit longer, but coal is even more polluting than oil so atmospheric CO2 will surge, much to the detriment of the planet.

As far as alternatives to petroleum-derived fertilizers are concerned they are out there for sure, but the models in which they tend to work is labor-intensive. It isn’t just the use of petroleum-based fertilizers that is problematic. Pesticides and herbicides (not that I am a big fan of either) are derived from oil as well. In our salmonella and e coli tainted food chain they are deemed crucial to maintain our mono-cropped waste lands. And even assuming that we miraculously are able to maintain our current levels of food supplies in the face of the coming energy shortfall (ain’t going to happen, kiddies) there remains the difficulty of getting our foodstuffs from the farm to the city, which once more requires (drumroll…) energy-lots of energy.

Downsize. Grow your own. Reestablish integrated and self-sustaining local economies.

this is why we are starting wars and placing the military all over the middle east.

I like this story especially since it comes from Europe. As the USA moves into a conservation mode and toward green industries and restructuring of its industry toward more energy efficiency one might ask what is the goal /fole of Europe in all this.
For over 20 years the USA has bourne almost the total cost of protecting the worlds oil / energy supplies, production, chain of distribution at a huge cost to the US taxpayer. A typical US Naval Carrier battle group cost about $1 billion per month to operate. As macho as it seems to the outside world, I do not think that the USA would like to go it alone in this respect.
Why isn’t Europe pitching in to defray the cost to the USA for the protection we give to the production and distribution of oil supplies. The USA is almost a net energy producer–its a myth by NEO-CONS that the USA must continue to pursue wars in far flug areas indefinitely because WE need the oil they have. What a pile of crap!! Reagan and the 2 Bush presidents were embedded with the Saudis to push for huge imports of oil into the USA. Remember in 1981 the first thing that Reagan did was to stop research into green energy and the conversion of coal into gasoline which was started during Nixon and Carter.
So, what is Europe doing to help us. Basically, NOTHING. They get oil from the Middle East in huge amounts for the spot or world price. Let’s use the G W Bush crummy business model for getting oil to Europe/India/ and even China. We spend $5 Billion dollars a month even now to provide for security for the oil fields in Iraq ALONE–that doesn’t count all the other oil shipped around the world that our Navy has to pay to guard. The Europeans get to use the Dumb and Crummy Bush business method of pricing the oil they buy–lets say the oil is market priced at $70.00 per barrel —- there is no markup or margin of profit for the USA even though in real world NO SMART BUSINESS PERSON WOULD MOVE MILLIONS OF BARRELS OF PROTECTED OIL for NO CHARGE. Under the crummy Bush business model this is what we get–the USA gets to pay all the security cost of the world oil supply for absolutely no money.
I am furious that the Europeans do not even offer to offset the cost we have for protecting all the sea lanes of the world…..that is pure robbery of the US taxpayer.

They mean corporatacracies (not democracies)

So, whatever we do, let’s not prioritize alternate energy sources so we may be prepared to deal with the diminishing supply of oil and actually avoid some of the tribulation and conflict! If I didn’t know better I would think it was all by design. Good luck people

Why would you see a problem with collapsing economies… mass famine… no climate control killing through heat and cold… lack of refrigeration causing disease … mass panic… anarchy..

Take away the energy supply to help the ecology.. yea… your forethought is amazing

Actually, take a look at Europe in the 14th-16 centuries; you’ll find a considerable number of peasant revolts, none of which were more than temporarily successful.

But for the sake of argument, lets say that you and your stalwart 21st century serfs are successful in overthrowing the tyrannical oppressors, etc, etc. How does that help the fact that we are looking at an energy starved society? Especially as we now have laid waste to a considerable amount of the infrastructure with no easy way to repair or replace it? You have wrenched the mantle of responsibility from one clique and are now wearing it yourselves. What is to keep you from being the next generation of tyrannical oppressors? How are you going to provide services for your citizens, or are you going to let them fend for themselves? Remember, there are close to 50 million Americans who need some form of food assistance. Let them starve and they will come after you with malice aforethought.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss…

Actually, take a look at Europe in the 14th-16 centuries; you’ll find a considerable number of peasant revolts, none of which were more than temporarily successful.

But for the sake of argument, lets say that you and your stalwart 21st century serfs are successful in overthrowing the tyrannical oppressors, etc, etc. How does that help the fact that we are looking at an energy starved society? Especially as we now have laid waste to a considerable amount of the infrastructure with no easy way to repair or replace it? You have wrenched the mantle of responsibility from one clique and are now wearing it yourselves. What is to keep you from being the next generation of tyrannical oppressors? How are you going to provide services for your citizens, or are you going to let them fend for themselves? Remember, there are close to 50 million Americans who need some form of food assistance. Let them starve and they will come after you with malice aforethought.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss…

Wow! Country Joe was right. We’re all gonna die!

and our military is trying to move toward fuel cells to power their equipment so they can fight wars over oil?

(wonder if Rummy, Woe or Churly had anything to do with the decision?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pt0rDYZPDA

are you kidding? this is when things get fun! as oil goes up and up in price, profits go way up with it! No way are we gonna start looking at alternative energy yet, this is when the bidness gets really profitable! you thought the biggest profits in the history of the world that exxon was making just a short time ago was something??? you ain’t seen nothin yet!
-

Nice One John!

Hello PeterGrfx,

Thank you very much for your reply.

My point was that a capitalist society has nothing to do with a free market which was inferred in the article.

Quote. “That collapse could, in turn, cause many countries to abandon free markets principles”

As for the “government interference” you refer to. Well this is another point all together.
Personally, and I can only speak for myself. I have been self employed all my life in many different professions. I have always established my own minimum worker safety and health standards that I am happy to work within. Likewise, I have always established my own minimum wage. And my conscience dictates to me regarding product health and safety standards. If I endanger anyone in my practices, then I am liable to prosecution under common law. I have no problem with other people leaving these decisions to what they regard as a higher authority if they wish. That is their business.

As for your second point I see it like this. Under common law we are basically free to do what ever we like as long as we don”t harm anything else in a negative manor. If it can be proven in a court of law that one has, then a judge and jury can prosecute the offending party. Since the introduction of corporation law, a company now has all rights at law of a person. So if a company is responsible for poisoning the air we breathe, the water we drink or the food we eat, then it is the company that gets prosecuted. Not the individuals who made the harmful decisions. No they just walk away while the shareholders pick up the bill, which more often than not does not reflect the magnitude of the crime. Why? “Because such behavior is more profitable than environmentally responsible behavior” as Milton Friedman puts it. I would argue that it is down to too much government regulation. Allowing individuals to make bad decisions under limited liability rather than having to be fully responsible for their own actions that cause so many environmental disasters. Lets face it we have mountains of regulations and the world is in a very bad state.

And finally for your point on democracy. I will quote Joseph Farah.

“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years.

How about we RECYCLE EVERY CAR and turn them into F—ING TRAINS

it’s about the timeline. sure the technology is there, but how fast can we change to renewable energy? 10 years, 20 years, 30 years? every time someone switches from a gas guzzler to a hybrid, 20 chinese get a car for the first time.

Had we listened to Carter, we would be in a totally different world right now. Even now, if the US government committed $3 trillion (remember, we spent $1 trillion in a weekend bailing out the banks), we could install 3kW of solar panels on the rooftops of every house in America. This would end our energy crisis.

There is no such thing as a permanent form of government. Whether the government is imposed by force or arises from the consent of the governed is immaterial: at the least it will morph into something else; in the extreme it either will be overthrown from within or destroyed from without. There is no millennial state awaiting us in the future unless we as a species mature, and I’m not sure it would be desirable anyway.

As for the statement in re democracy “It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury.” the irony of course is that it has been the plutocracy that has profited from engorging on the public purse, not the majority of its citizens, as Mr. Farah seems to suggest (can’t tell where his quote ends).

why do you think we we attacked iraq and afghanistan?

why do you think we we attacked iraq and afghanistan?

why do you think we we attacked iraq and afghanistan?

I agree people can only consider others as property if they don’t consider them human beings, or consider them inherently inferior human beings, not “men.

Was it just white supremacy though? Lets not forget the 500,000 or so white Irish slaves sent over to the new world..

Here is an article you may like you read?

http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/sesostris-the-great-the-egyptian-hercules/the-irish-slave-trade-forgotten-white-slaves/

I don’t think so…the corporatocracy will do just fine…with a big Police State to further insure their survival while our democratic principles are crushed under Big Brother’s jackboots!

I don’t think so…the corporatocracy will do just fine…with a big Police State to further insure their survival while our democratic principles are crushed under Big Brother’s jackboots!

I don’t think so…the corporatocracy will do just fine…with a big Police State to further insure their survival while our democratic principles are crushed under Big Brother’s jackboots!

Good Point..

Sir Alex Fraser Tytler once came up with what he called the cycle of freedom. You probably know it?? It goes as follows.

From bondage to spiritual faith
From spiritual faith to great courage
From great courage to liberty
From liberty to abundance
From abundance to selfishness
From selfishness to complacency
From complacency to apathy
From apathy to dependency
From dependency back again to bondage

I’m not sure where we are? But i’d guess somewhere around the apathy/dependence stage?

See: http://www.top-alternative-energy-sources.com/stanley-meyer.html

Meyer developed the hydrogen fuel cell, using just water and a 12 volt battery…tried to introduce it to the military, was poisoned in 1998 for his efforts.

We could and should go back to alcohol-run engines, like the first cars. Back then every farm had a still to run their machinery.
Alcohol can be made from any kind of organic waste…turning edibles like corn into ethanol is just plain stupid and wasteful.
Prohibition be damned.. that was just the emerging oil moguls trying to seal our demand for oil and gasoline…and we saw what happened to the guy that made hydrogen fuel from plain old water (see my earlier post)

Never too late for that!
Another thing to make alcohol fuel with (not to mention all the other bennies!)
Upper midwest farmers have been clamoring to be allowed to grow it for years, like their Canadian neighbors just over the border!

If our Congress wasn’t comprised mostly of a bunch of greedy wimps lining their pockets with Oil companies’ bribes, we’d BE there by now!

The military sure is the BIGGEST consumer of Oil…and most of THAT is bought from BP on OUR Dime!
In Hawaii, for instance, the schools have to be closed one day a week so the military can run their constant jet “practice runs” in their constant obscene display of bravado and noise! So much for “paradise”.

….you do understand, don’t you, that oil is a FINITE resource – we WILL run out. Not IF, but WHEN we do we must have alternative energy supplies – renewable energy supplies with renewable waste or debris – to replace it. The fact that oil/fossil fuels/nuclear/coal are polluting and destroying our land/water/air is actually a secondary consideration – although just as important.

….you do understand, don’t you, that oil is a FINITE resource – we WILL run out. Not IF, but WHEN we do we must have alternative energy supplies – renewable energy supplies with renewable waste or debris – to replace it. The fact that oil/fossil fuels/nuclear/coal are polluting and destroying our land/water/air is actually a secondary consideration – although just as important.

….you do understand, don’t you, that oil is a FINITE resource – we WILL run out. Not IF, but WHEN we do we must have alternative energy supplies – renewable energy supplies with renewable waste or debris – to replace it. The fact that oil/fossil fuels/nuclear/coal are polluting and destroying our land/water/air is actually a secondary consideration – although just as important.

Collapsing economies? Seems to be on its way regardless of peak oil. Mass famine would be a result of the food supply/transportation being tied to petrol. But there is already famine in locations not tied to petrol.
HVAC? This can’t possibly be on the same level of concern.

What does the planet need us for?

WE knew that this day would eventually come.

Tytler most likely never said your quote-there’s no reference to it in his writings. Not that that ultimately matters since with attributions it’s the idea that is important (or not), not the source. My issue with it is that it doesn’t reflect historical fact: I believe one would be hard pressed to demonstrate any nation or people who went through this cycle once, let alone repeatedly.

Contry Joe Mc Donald was right John but he sais Whoppee all gonna die! ;-))
Ah lets go back to horse and carriage .

Lithium batteries offer the best power and energy density, but are not required. Valve regulated lead acid batteries will suffice for electric cars. They are almost fully recyclable, and there are no rare materials involved.

Americans need to realize also that the future of their children is more important than the buzz they derive from driving a vehicle with much more power and weight than they need.

Jimmy Carter WARNED us 33 years ago !!

Wars during oil shortages

Someday we might even have to fake an attack on an American city to justify the invasion of an oil rich country in the Middle East. Oh, wait…

With the rest of the Fish.

I am reminded of the Easter Islanders who cut down all the trees so they couldn’t build canoes and leave the island.

You are absolutely right, WaStConcerned. Indeed, we must have enough oil with which to fuel the creation of a renewable energy infrastructure that will cost TRILLIONS of dollars and which will require BILLIONS of barrels of oil to build.

Some would have us continue catapulting toward the energy cliff in the name of preserving business-as-usual. The dismissal of this phenomenon is astonishing considering its consequences.

You are absolutely right, WaStConcerned. Indeed, we must have enough oil with which to fuel the creation of a renewable energy infrastructure that will cost TRILLIONS of dollars and which will require BILLIONS of barrels of oil to build.

Some would have us continue catapulting toward the energy cliff in the name of preserving business-as-usual. The dismissal of this phenomenon is astonishing considering its consequences.

Pure propaganda from big oil. There is NO SUCH THING AS PEAK OIL. There is an UNLIMITED supply of oil in the ground… many wells renew themselves ever 30 years… oil is being formed on a continual basis. This is simply a ploy to use as an excuse to prop up the price of oil and hold America and others hostage to a LIE.

Pure propaganda from big oil. There is NO SUCH THING AS PEAK OIL. There is an UNLIMITED supply of oil in the ground… many wells renew themselves ever 30 years… oil is being formed on a continual basis. This is simply a ploy to use as an excuse to prop up the price of oil and hold America and others hostage to a LIE.

What a crock. There is more oil and oil equivalents in North America than we could use in 500 years.

Also … do a google for the bloom box fuel cell and thorium reactors.

my dear friend that is jsut one of several theories I REPEAT THEORIES about oil availability

A lot of the posts here do not understand how modern society is floating on an oil subsidy. Modern farming is basically pouring oil onto the land via fertilizer and machinery to harvest and transport product. Petrochemicals which account for around 17% of an oil barrel’s usage are found in thousands, if not millions, of household products.

Oil provides us with energy slaves that have no viable alternative for substitution. Standards of living will fall as the cost of living increases. Large families will be a thing of the past, as will cheap air fares and gas guzzlers. Cooking at home, backyard vegetable gardens, walking, cycling and simple living will become more popular. As well the insane US military posture will also recede.

Dear Friends,

Most of the people I know, eat food. This is why I think that the greatest threat to humanity is hunger. Climate change, economic collapse, species extinction and peak oil all threaten to exacerbate this threat. Wouldn’t it be great if there was a cheap and easy way for each individual to increase their food growing capability while reducing their contribution to climate change, world hunger, economic collapse, species extinction and peak oil?

Fortunately such a process exists. It appears that there are a number of essential plant and animal nutrients that were previously unknown to science. When added to the soil, they double plant growth over a few years time, while increasing drought & freeze tolerance. They also improve the taste and nutrition of the plants. See:

http://www.subtleenergies.com/plant-lynx.htm

When fed to animals, they increase the early growth and health of chickens and have allowed a cat to regrow a lost tail. See:

http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/tw/animal-lynx.htm

These minerals have been concentrated from sea water, fresh water, rocks and even from the air using cheap, open-source methods described at:

http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/tw/articles.htm#METHODS

Hunger is a threat because global warming will force us to significantly change our food growing areas, economic collapse will prevent more people from being able to afford good food, peak oil will force us to grow more food locally or starve and species extinction will create holes in the web of life that feeds us. Growing inches of new topsoil and doubling plant production in a couple years will help all species that eat food. It will also sequester more carbon.

Anyone with access to fire and sea water can concentrate these minerals from the sea. If you have access to magnets and plumbing parts you can concentrate them from the air or fresh water using open-source methods. If everyone can make it, no one can stop it.

With kindest regards,
Barry Carter
bcarter at igc.org

There are two basic theories of oil ‘creation’. One of which is that oil has been formed from historically deposited biomass and is therefore a finite resource and the other theory to which Moxaman alludes to which originates from Russia – this is the abiogenic theory and suggests that the earth contains large deep oil deposits that were formed when the earth was created – the implication is that oil deposits would be replenished on a continual basis and peak oil is a myth used to manipulate the market.

Two things to note about the oil and the oil market – firstly a large percentage of the oil price is speculative as hedge funds introduce volatility – the more volatile the more profits they make and secondly, the reports are military in origin and serve to create a justification for retained or increased defence expenditure in anticipation of a coming crisis.

A lot of people in cities already lack access to a car. However they also do not have access to their own gardens or orchards. Are they to be condemned to starvation? Perhaps “soylent green” isn’t to far in our future. The collapse of our oil based economy will be catastrophic to millions which is why we MUST start financing and developing alternative energies NOW.

Amazing link….thank-you. Now why on earth is this not being discussed in the MSM or by some enterprising politicians? I think I already know the answer….big oil interests and damn the people. Disheartening to say the least.

You do make some valid points, but I think you must have more faith in the goodness and altruistic tendencies of your fellow humans than I do. I wonder, given the lack of enforced regulations, how many employers would pay a decent minimum wage, or ensure their workers’ safety. And if their fellow employers did the same who would be strong enough to protest the injustices? Common Law worked in a simpler time when people were more inclined to work together for their very survival. Today each person is more concerned with their own welfare over the common good. I wish it were not so but I don’t think there is any going back. We should be looking at systems that will enable us to go forward as a society that cares about our fellow citizens, recognizing that in this huge country not everyone has equal opportunities to advance at the same speed. That might very well include a different form of Government.

Exactly! Nobody seems to think beyond get rid of the government. Solutions, people….you need to supply solutions. Even the politicians have trouble with that one.

Und so haben sie ganz recht, nicht wahr?

Moxaman, you are COMPLETELY NUTS!

Yes, he did. He was laughed at and basically called an ‘ignernt,’ red-neck cracker. Turns out he was right on too many things for which he is still not getting credit.

Nach dreissig Jahren Erfahrung, mit Bekanntschaften von Schleswig-Holstein bis Baden-Württemberg bis Sachsen, habe ich so ziemlich einen allgemeinen Eindruck zumindest.

Big Oil WOULD be the biggest losers, now wouldn’t they? LOL Like we care?? How unpatriotic of them, in light of the German report.

Stupidity can be forgiven. Ignorance is unforgivable. In any event, the results of not adjusting to peak oil will be very harsh. M. King Hubbert was the canary in the mine. Yes, technology is delaying the inevitable. But look at the cost. The Alberta tar sands and Gulf Oil disaster are catastrophic. The continued reliance on massive energy consumption is leading us towards a mass extinction event.

At the same time, the compactness of European states might make them more vulnerable to total collapse in the sorts of revolutionary upheaval predicted by the report.

Could you provide at least one link to a reputable non-fringe site that has verified depleted oil wells have refilled moxaman?

Yep. A “secret” German military report just happened to be “leaked” online. Uh oh…here comes peak oil and the world will start having fits pretty darned soon.

Raise oil prices! Occupy the Middle East! Load up on canned goods with your [nonexistent] paychecks, and store it in your [foreclosed] houses!

How gullible can some of ya get?

I’m afraid the subtleties of your German are beyond my book learning. I make out your post to say, “After thirty years experience, with aquaintances from Schleswig-Holstein to Baden-Württemberg to Saxony, I have commonly quite such an impression at least.”

I still can’t be sure if you are agreeing with me, that the USA needs to adopt that urgency. Ich nütze mehr Ãœbung!

Peak oil is another scam and distraction trick, so when they crash the economy, the Earth itself will be responsible, or every person who uses gasoline. Not any group of people or a corporation that could be held accountable.

Fascinating read, thanks.

It sounds like you’re using a mechanical (internet or otherwise non-human) translator. I said that after thirty years’ experience, I do have quite a general impression. And “Bedarf” is a noun, by the way (meaning “need”), where I think you were trying to say “I need more practice,” which would normally use the verb “brauchen (to need),” as in “ich brauche mehr Ãœbung.” I wasn’t addressing the urgency, per se, which the Germans certainly do recognize. I was saying that they are looking into alternative sustainable energy not due to a “yes we can” attitude, but more due to an “oh, crap, we must!” attitude. “Yes we can” is sadly not even on the radar of most European mentalities, which my European wife laments constantly. She is appalled that in America, “Yes we can” is so often countered by a conservative “no, we shouldn’t.”

The problem with that, Manny, is that all of the disreputable, bought off, ignorant people are the ones who are saying it’s real, and there probably is no source that you would consider reputable. Like this one:

http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/channel.cfm?channelid=63&contentid=2097

That doesn’t mean peak oil isn’t a scam. Try these.
http://internet-scam-busters.com/tag/peak-oil
http://vyzygoth.com/Peak.pdf
http://www.google.com/search?q=peak+oil+scam&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=xb3&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=v&source=univ&tbs=vid:1&tbo=u&ei=tHSATN-YDJH0tgO-m-HWBA&sa=X&oi=video_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CCkQqwQwAw

Oh? What are some of the others?

Anti-semitic, how?

HEMP 4 VICTORY!

Don’t kid yourself.

“Let our position be absolutely clear. An attempt by any outside force to gain control of the Persian Gulf region will be regarded as an assault on the vital interests of the United States.” ~ Jimmy Carter (1980)

I will grant you, he’s doing some good work now that he’s free. But once he was a slave to power like all the rest.

“I hereby find that the defense of Saudi Arabia is vital to the defense of the United States.”
~ FDR (1945)

Alcohol – biomass to fuel, and algae biofuel which absolutely devours would be atmospheric carbon, would be a good start. Then there’s the infinite supply of human and animal waste, a perfectly legitimate source of energy which for some idiotic reason we -spend- energy to process via billons of gallons of potable drinking water. (sigh) http://www.articlesbase.com/science-articles/gasification-of-sewage-sludges-explained-791873.html Then there’s thermal depolymerization. Go ahead and turn any organic matter into oil! It’s pretty basic technology. http://www.thermaldepolymerization.org/ but the bottom line is that humans, and especially those of us in the industrialized world need to transform our society towards one which –>’uses’ way less energy<– as a species we are like the noisy bumbling infants of the planet burning up anything we can find for fear of the darkness. It’s certifiably insane. We can do better. Time to prepare for and welcome some epic game changing events with ever more clever means of mimicing the species which already have it all figured out. Ahhhh, equilibrium.

The collapse of the west will not be due to peak oil(whether or not that is even real).

The collapse of the west has been engineered by predator oligarchs who see humanity as nothing more than “useless eaters” who need to be “programmed like robots” using the food supply, pharmaceuticals, and media. Futhermore they plan mass extermination us.

Let what happens to the west, be a warning to the rest of the world. It is a new world order, and the west is an example of how they operate.

Another Zionist-Christian right/moneyman propaganda.

Ah — brauchen, of course — recognizing it and having it come to mind under pressure are two different things. But how right your wife is about the American attitude. The practicality just goes by the board over here. The electorate has fallen for the manipulation promulgated by a very few whose hegemony is challenged by those forms of energy that cannot be monopolized. Thanks for the run — I’m out of breath.

In my own defense though, I must point out that “bedarf” is 1st P. Sing Present indic of “bedürfen”.

Here’s a good back up plans to look into. I’m not calling for this on a “too big to fail scale”, I’m saying more for the “small is beautiful” scale. It puts out 1/4 the pollutants of gasoline. Northern Europe ran on this during WW2.
My woodgascampstove cooks really hot and I’ve used pine cones for fuel. There’s a Youtube of a guy in Florida running a 5 KW generator using a 50/50 mix of pine chips and horse manure as fuel. You can run a chevy 350 ci and produce 40 KW at 1800 rpm according to victorygasworks.com. Solar hot water is barely being used in the U.S.A. Hippie batch heaters can be built really cheaply. Better systems can also be built cheaply for colder climates. Instead of buying a new SUV to impress your dumbass neighbors we should be investing in ways to not use Oil. Start it as a Hobby and if everyone did it perhaps the water car would finally come to the world. HHO technology is happening these days…
Check these sites out fellow tinkerers:
http://www.builditsolar.com/
http://victorygasworks.ning.com/
http://www.gekgasifier.com/
http://waterforfuel.com/

Thank you for the links Elim. Looking at several of them I see the real scam is those trying convince the low-to-no-information consumer (the average American) that as long as there is oil in the ground that attaining “peak oil” is impossible. This is the same simple-headed argument used by Creationists that Evolution is “just a theory” which has proven so effective.

I guess we can just chalk this one up to the fact that 30 years of Reaganism has and successfully and irreversibly turned most Americans into nothing more than paramecium which simply react brainlessly to any outside stimulation.

Yes it’s too late. We had the chance to use hemp in the 20′s and 30′s but for some reason (can’t remember now) we decided oil and chemicals were the way to go. It would take decades to reintroduce hemp as a bio-fuel. Oh shit, maybe we have time?

Already there.

NeoCon Propaganda to justify the huge military!`

No, just onemore really good reason to get off of our oil addiction, as if we needed one.

No, just onemore really good reason to get off of our oil addiction, as if we needed one.

Well said. Thank you. Too bad so many Americans think we have time to dither politics rather than facing realities.

Crashing the economy and the Earth being responsible are two different things wilth two different tracks. It’s possible to head off crashing the economy. The Earth will have its say , and its way,l regardless of what you believe.

You say that as if there was no alternative. You must be a fear mongering teabagger. One alternative is to go full bore with green energy technology NOW, and stop spewing paranoid theories.

Actually ignorance too is forgivable. It just means someone hasn’t learned yet. It’s the combination of stupidity and arrogance (teabagger motto–I’m proud of being stupid and ignorant) that is going to get us all killed.

Well put.. However, alternatives do exist and/or can be developed. Those that can’t, we can probably learn to do without, and would be better off without anyway.

Well put.. However, alternatives do exist and/or can be developed. Those that can’t, we can probably learn to do without, and would be better off without anyway.

Well put.. However, alternatives do exist and/or can be developed. Those that can’t, we can probably learn to do without, and would be better off without anyway.

Well put.. However, alternatives do exist and/or can be developed. Those that can’t, we can probably learn to do without, and would be better off without anyway.

Well put.. However, alternatives do exist and/or can be developed. Those that can’t, we can probably learn to do without, and would be better off without anyway.

Well put.. However, alternatives do exist and/or can be developed. Those that can’t, we can probably learn to do without, and would be better off without anyway.

There may very well be. The question is: is it wise to pursue them? Or would it be wiser to learn how to prosper with alternatives?

Irrelevant. Even if peak oil is a scam, our ravenous thirst for (and waste of) petroleum is killing us and our planet. It’s time to make a change.

AKA Foxbots.

There is also the theory that when the earth was formed, a lot of comets containing water, gases, and hydrocarbons that added their mass to the new planet, providing oceans, atmosphere, and petroleum. That would still make petroleum a finite resource. As I said in another post, however, all these theories are irrelevant. The fact is our consumption of petroleum is killing us and our planet. We need to get the oil monkey off our backs.

You proably havent noticed then, that when the price of gasoline goes up, consumption drops. This is a losing proposition.

You proably havent noticed then, that when the price of gasoline goes up, consumption drops. This is a losing proposition.

The health benefits of walking are incalculable.

The health benefits of walking are incalculable.

Great solution…Not.

If you couldn’t tell already we are hardly in control of any aspect of society. Those decisions are being made for us by the global elitist cabal.

Great solution…Not.

If you couldn’t tell already we are hardly in control of any aspect of society. Those decisions are being made for us by the global elitist cabal.

Great solution…Not.

If you couldn’t tell already we are hardly in control of any aspect of society. Those decisions are being made for us by the global elitist cabal.

Great solution…Not.

If you couldn’t tell already we are hardly in control of any aspect of society. Those decisions are being made for us by the global elitist cabal.

Worlld War II

What is pure robbery, is that the US is forced to pay for all of this, while alternative energy resources could so easily be developed and save us all a lot of money. Good idea, bringing up the cost of defending the oil fields with US military, however. No one ever figures that into the cost of oil. They should, it’s significant. Monumental, in fact. It dwarfs the cost of green energy, in comparison.

Give Hawaii back to the Hawaiians. They took better care of it.

With rising sea levels, this will happen anyway. Once seaports are flooded, no shipped goods will be able to be loaded or unloaded. Oil travels by ship. So do many grains and other raw materials. Raise the docking facilities, you say? Yeah, right. It would cost billions, and considering today’s vitriolic political atmosphere, getting anything passed that costs that much…well, good f**kin’ luck.

Is this someone’s idea of a joke? Whoever greenlighted this ‘article’ is in need of immediate dismissal.

True. Also, added to it the fact that Europeans aren’t the cowards we are and they’re ready, willing and able to stand up to their governments, at the first sign of any decrease is benefits, it could get ugly quickly.

The fact is, there is no way to predict what could or would happen, anywhere in the world on this. They’re even having, obviously, a difficult time predicting where we are with the world’s oil supply, for that matter, let alone the repercussions of any decrease. It’s just good to be aware of situations and possibilities, without getting too emotional.

Mo Rage
the blog

I hope you’re not saying you’re more informed because you get your information from the mainstream media. I would never say that. And why would you automatically assume that the msm is not trying the same thing on you? If you see a theory about something which completely goes against everything you’ve been taught, it’s “simple-headed”? Geez….I look at both sides with the realization that the truth is somewhere between. That’s the best I can do when there are so many out there intent on hiding it, to keep us uninformed, misinformed, divided, exhausted, sick, and in debt.

True. Regardless of what the truth is, going green would serve to short circuit the government’s lust for empire, at least for the reason of conquest for oil.

True. Regardless of what the truth is, going green would serve to short circuit the government’s lust for empire, at least for the reason of conquest for oil.

Maybe that’s in the works. To hold the world hostage with “peak oil”, AND the true cost of it.

Maybe that’s in the works. To hold the world hostage with “peak oil”, AND the true cost of it.

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Yup, peak oil is in our collective imaginations and so will the results be! Skyhigh fuel prices; a climate too warm to support human life; mass extinctions; all imaginary! Dream on!

Yup, peak oil is in our collective imaginations and so will the results be! Skyhigh fuel prices; a climate too warm to support human life; mass extinctions; all imaginary! Dream on!

Deny, DENY, DENY! Peak oil….who ever heard or believed in such a thing! I don’t! I WON’T! When it starts to effect me; I’ll just bury my head in the sand and yell! Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Deny, DENY, DENY! Peak oil….who ever heard or believed in such a thing! I don’t! I WON’T! When it starts to effect me; I’ll just bury my head in the sand and yell! Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Deny, DENY, DENY! Peak oil….who ever heard or believed in such a thing! I don’t! I WON’T! When it starts to effect me; I’ll just bury my head in the sand and yell! Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Deny, DENY, DENY! Peak oil….who ever heard or believed in such a thing! I don’t! I WON’T! When it starts to effect me; I’ll just bury my head in the sand and yell! Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Deny, DENY, DENY! Peak oil….who ever heard or believed in such a thing! I don’t! I WON’T! When it starts to effect me; I’ll just bury my head in the sand and yell! Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Solar, Wind, Wave, Hydro, Tidal, Geothermal, Nuclear – all convert to electric power in an America that is oil based!
China has, up and running, nuclear/electric sourced, electric bullet train networks and the associated infrastructures, operating, oil free, on nuclear energy, and with folks fed veggies and rice. They produce goods for the world and American markets at prices well below what it costs for US to produce them – and still make profits! No oil bill and no high meat bill makes for cheaper production.
This model is being duplicated all over Asia as we speak! they will not need gasoline cars, they will ride mass transit with nuclear fuel, not oil.
Americans, with their great fatted asses, high mortgages, spending and eating habits, and huge debts are an anomaly in Western cultures – The West will survive oil shortages, Americans and their current lifestyle may not! Remember, the average American is also physically larger than the average European or Oriental – they require far too much to maintain for their individual output. Their EROI is out of whack – and they live beyond their means.
Thorium bed reactors can assure the world of adequate energy supplies far into the future – much further than oil, or more specifically, light sweet crude oil, the oil of choice.
Transportation by rail of any sort is 400% more efficient than by rubber wheeled gasoline engined means!
Super insulations that conserve energy have been suppressed by corporatism, as have other good things – Google, torrent, “Who Stole The Electric Car” for documentation of this statement.
Some, good Americans have managed to develop Off Grid lifestyles – and they publish to the net in some cases – a must read for those among you who feel the end of Cheap Oil or even democracy is the end of life – it isn’t and these folk are living proof of that.
New and better technologies , recent ones, including super-magnets, LED lights, osmosis, aquaponics, and many more, all contribute to the possibility of a comfortable off grid lifestyle.
Wind farms ans Solar installations require battery ballast to improve efficiencies. Lithium battery’s in electric cars do this. Lithium deposits have been discovered near Valdor, Quebec, Canada – Bolivia not the only source! Canada has some too! Surprise!
Take off your American Hegemony blinkers and realize a whole world of possibilities!

We are past peak energy per capita, and for some times now, we are living in transitional times and peak oil is real and upon us. Alternatives form of energy are great but don’t expect a chiwawa to replace a work horse any time soon. The cheap and abundant energy dependent capitalistic experiment is running on fumes and won’t last another decade, we got our free lunch at the expense of future generations but that epoch is closing rapidly. sustainability won’t be achieved in a overpopulated planet and life will eventually return to a simpler form. I don’t know what this world will look like but people with useful skills will certainly be better off than the rest.

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” I can understand why Military needs to consider it and prepare for the worse…”
Contingency planning is standard practice, where they dream up any possible, not necessarily probable, scenarios and write up a plan of how they would deal with it. It’s actually part contingency planning (in case whatever really does happen) and part an intellectual exercise because what ideas they get from one imagined scenario may help deal with a real one of a different nature. I believe most armies do it. It was revealed recently, for example, that the Red Army had a scenario plan for invading England should a nuclear war break out, but they also had one to obliterate the country.

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[...] of energy and resource decline, political systems might collapse. According to the German military, Peak Oil is a threat to modern democracy. Dan Allen extrapolates the all too scary obvious here: So where does that leave us when the [...]

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best part is you can build the technology from near junk. i run an open source project in berkeley california that offers free plans for how to do so. See Wood gas plans.

we also did a workshop recently in germany with one of our full gasifier-gensets. we’ll likely do another one here again at some point soon. you can see the details of the last one here:

German biomass gasification workshop

peak energy is not inevitable, though peak oil likely already has been.

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peak or no peak, there are things we can do immediately. many of us have become interested in the fuel that is everywhere around us– waste biomass. through gasification and biochar, we can responsibly extract the “solar energy” in the biomass, and return the minerals and partial carbon to the soil for near permanent sequestration.

best part is you can build the technology from near junk. i run an open source project in berkeley california that offers free plans for how to do so. See Wood gas plans.

we also did a workshop recently in germany with one of our full gasifier-gensets. we’ll likely do another one here again at some point soon. you can see the details of the last one here:

German biomass gasification workshop

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we also did a workshop recently in germany with one of our full gasifier-gensets. we’ll likely do another one here again at some point soon. you can see the details of the last one here:

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Unfortunately many people still believe that oil is a “fossil fuel”, but it’s important to note what said Sir Fred Hoyle:
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Other conclusion is that “peak oil” is a myth.

Oil ,of course, has abiotic origin because petroleum and natural gas are hydrocarbon compounds too rich in hydrogen. No biological detritus could form oil except as biological contamination by bacteria from deep hot biosphere that feed these primordial hydrocarbons and bacteria dead into oil.
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Unfortunately many people still believe that oil is a “fossil fuel”, but it’s important to note what said Sir Fred Hoyle:
“The suggestion that petroleum might have arisen from some transformation of squashed fish or biological detritus is surely the silliest notion to have been entertained by substantial numbers of persons over an extended period of time.”
Other conclusion is that “peak oil” is a myth.

[...] German military report here: According to Der Spiegel, the report from a think-tank inside the German military warns that [...]