it’s far more important to be concerned about the global economic effects of an attack on Iran than it is to worry about any other reasons for attacking them. Iran is a major player in the world global oil game. It just so happens that our owners the Chinese depend on Iran for petroleum products. Anything that affects the Chinese economy affects our economy matter how you look at it. This is not a situation where Iran would just sit back and take it. There would be repercussions, even if they came after our attack. And quite frankly there would be repercussions against us even if the UN attacks, primarily because we are the majority of the UN. Europe has no intention of striking at Iran. how much is the cost to us? Incredibly high

the chickens are coming home to roost for the nazi jews… and the acceptance of torture by the american christian nazi illiterate enablers is proof they believe in the viking myth of jack bauer and the related reich wing propaganda novela, 24. It will be interesting to see how they respond to their daughters and sons being raped and sodomized on the battlefield by a stronger and more competent adversary who has taken note of what awaits them from the american nazi machine. stupid fucks…

Since when does what the people want matter, if it did we wouldn’t be in Afghanistan would we. We no longer control government it controls us and things are about to get much worse.

Just a poll, brah. Doesn’t mean shit. You’re right. Since when do we fucking matter?

You sound like old Amadinnerjacket. Jews as Nazis, hikers as spies, nuclear weapons as medical research. BP, what hath thou wrought? Will you ever apologize for overthrowing the democratically elected government?

With the billions of dollars that we have given Israel over the last 60 years or so isn’t our interest in them at this point simply a matter of protecting our investment?

Not when you look a the “maintenance” they cost this country

Regrets over Iraq Genocide.

:-(

Too fucking bad.

The questions seem to me a bit vague. If Israel is attacked by Palestinians? no way. Rockets only. Attacked by Iran? Well that poses a regional threat that would destabilize the entire region, subjecting Saudi Arabi et al to trouble, and we would protect our oil needs. On the other hand, an attack from just about any of the countries would not require our intervention. We are involved in the region and we are the lead nation trying to bring a settlement to the Palestinian and Israel sides. Are we to withdraw from that leadership?

A Phil Ochs fan! Me too!

I think of him every time I remember how the Government drives good people to suicide.

This can not go on: RawStory has produced yet another Israel article without commenting available.
http://rawstory.com/news/afp/Israel_not_planning_new_settlement__09172010.html

Coincidence? It doesn’t matter. Make this end NOW, RawStory. ALL STORIES deserve comments.

We shouldn’t prop up any church states.

Conversely, we shouldn’t topple any countries that aren’t ready for Democracy.

Three quarters of Americans supported the invasion of Afghanistan back in 2001. And just because the public has all of a sudden gotten buyer’s regret doesn’t mean anyone should take them seriously. Americans like wars . . . even though every once in a while they get bored with their old toys.

Issrael is Jewish state–any Jew has the right to move there. But it is not a church state: it has Christians and Muslims and aethists who live there as citizens and who vote and serve if elected in the govt.

It has minorities living under its church-state flag, yes.

If Iran were to do a first strike on Israel, there is no doubt we would retaliate, regardless of public opinion. As far as the 50% who would oppose retaliation under those circumstances, when would it be justified to use our military? The world is too small and angry to think we could be isolationists.

People are sick of unjust American murdering of 1,600,000 people in the Middle East.

You should be sick of it too.

We do not intentionally target civilians unlike our enemy. The world is a better place with American than without, in my opinion. I hope Iran is not dumb enough to strike Israel first, then all hell will break loose.

Another poll with little to no information on who was polled, how they were polled and where they were polled. Apparently 2500 people can reflect the “vast majority” of American opinions. You have to take their word for it though because the Chicago Council on Global Affairs won’t tell you who was polled or how they were chosen.

Yes we do.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Israel staged a false flag on it’s own soil, something like 911 but maybe with supposed nukes, and then of course setup Iran as the one to blame, same game as 911 basically in order to start a larger war:

1. attack the people
2. blame the desired enemy
3. start your war machine

Same type of thing that happened with 911, they would surely do that again if they fail to build public support otherwise, which is the situation they are in now.

US military is currently in surrounding areas of Iran, it looks like they are setting it up for invasion. They keep floating all these invasion idea turds in the media, trying to scare people about Iran’s nuke capabilities but no one cares.

Iran is a resource rich country so it’s obvious what we are trying to do there, question is, are the clowns who really control everything really going to plunge us into Iran any time soon? Will that take us down with it? Are they going to pull a 911 to start it? At this point they would have to – and 911 itself was so sloppy – it’s obvious to many of us that it was an inside job – the risk of getting caught is exponential this time. Every one was asleep for the first one.

Needless to say, I disagree with your assertion. I suppose if Iran strikes Israel and we retaliate and Iranian civilians are killed, it will be our fault they are killed.

We take out the power, the hospital shuts down and people die.

We do it on purpose.

We killed 1.6 million people just for being Iraqis this way.

It’s documented genocide.

what do you smoke? If Israel thought it could take out the nuke sites in Iran the way it did in Syria and Iraq it would, probably. Why would they need the odd scenario you concoct in order to do it?

what do you smoke? If Israel thought it could take out the nuke sites in Iran the way it did in Syria and Iraq it would, probably. Why would they need the odd scenario you concoct in order to do it?

like it really matters what american voters want, aipac owns the congress! hilary is israels bitch!
rahm emmanuel has obama in israels back pocket, kills me to hear people say israel is our only ally in the middle east, before the creation of this false state we had no enemies in the middle east, all evil flows from israel! WAKE UP AND TELL YOUR GOVERNMENT YOU WORK FOR US, NOT THE EVIL FUCKS IN ISRAHELL!

by way of deception we shall commit war- the mossad motto! sure worked on 9/11, almost worked with the us liberty when israhell murdered all those american sailors!

Iraq war- horribly bad decision by Bush, agreed. You call it genocide, I do not. The article and my comment were about Iran, Israel and what we would do in retaliation of an Iran first strike, but you don’t seem to be interested in that topic.

Iraq war- horribly bad decision by Bush, agreed. You call it genocide, I do not. The article and my comment were about Iran, Israel and what we would do in retaliation of an Iran first strike, but you don’t seem to be interested in that topic.

And who the flying eff owns or funds this “Chiago Ouncil on Global Affairs”???

Every time I heard some faux newsy turd say “the Pew Research Center” I realize they mean that’s what the oil money-supported elites say, period.

SIDEBAR:The other day I was approached by someone raising funds for the Nature Conservancy, and when I flipped him off, an Ameritard standing by me gave me the stink eye. Then he was approached to by this Nature Conservancy dude and he listened intently to him.

I asked the Ameritard if he knew that this Nature Conservancy was a foreign-owned entity, which purchases land in America then sells it for mineral and/or lumber extraction to foreign corporations?

The Ameritard, of course, was completely ignorant of this (as no doubt he was ignorant of everything else in his country). He asked me if the Bushies had made it legal, the way they had legalized every other scuzzy law.

He was again shocked to learn it had been legalized by those faux crats, Clinton and Gore. (He probably believes Gore is a true environmentalist, and doesn’t have an inkling that Gore hopes to make a bundle off of the cap-and-trade scam on that hedge fund [Generation Asset Management] he started with a couple of Goldman Sachs’ buddies of his?)

The vast majority of the American population today is hopelessly and endlessly ignorant beyond belief!

OK, so the past head of this Chicago Council on Global Affairs was Phil Condit of Boeing.

The present head, Lester Brown, is Mr. General Dynamics and longtime board member of the neocon/neolib sleazefest known as the Aspen Institute.

Samo scuzz buckets. Always samo samo….

Excellent presentation of the absurdity of the alarms about Iran’s nuclear posture at the Christian Science Monitor by Scott Horton of AntiWar.com today:

Reality check: Iran is not a nuclear threat

A really blistering (and well deserved) indictment of the press as they perform sex acts for the NeoCon psychopathic war-monger/profiteer crowd. He fully confutes every one of their arguments.

66 percent want Iran punished, but just aren’t sure how!

Like all POLLS, I’m sure this will get everything accomplished.

The World should block America from attacking any further countries from now on.

Instead we get away with it.

Because we are the overbearing bullies with steelcap boots smearing people into the grease stains that you wish to see more of.

The World should forbid further murder of anybody by the American military.

The World should.

I confess, I was not aware of this issue. I did a bit of digging after reading your post, and found this article at SourceWatch which seems to support your position with considerable ammunition.

Bit of a shocker. Thanks

I thank you for that link, ProudPrmate. SourceWatch, while unquestionably fully of integrity, and so and so forth, can’t be as radical as I — given my penchant for “unconventional” research — so can’t go out on a limb and state as I do the foreign money and ownership connection, but what they say is damning nonetheless.

The problem with the entire conservation lobby is that it has long been co-opted by the richest families and multinationals, for the dual purposes of grant special status to their land — for tax evasion purposes and in many cases, tax awards purposes (as in money stolen from the taxpayers) — and also to hide actual land ownership.

If enough citizens fully realized the true concentration of not only wealth, but private lands, in this country, the jig might very well be up!

Israel can’t do the job by itself. Just like the CIA in the Bay of Pigs incident, they hope to make a mess and force the hand of the POTUS to come and do what they couldn’t do, using the full force of the US military. JFK “just said no”, fired Dulles and Lemnitzer, to which they said “No, you’re fired” and blew his head off.

When I say “the job”, I don’t mean “taking out the nuke sites”. I mean “taking out the competition”, like they did in Iraq using the US military as a sock puppet. They want to be the only rogue state in the Middle East, refusing to sign the NPT and supplying bombs to whoever they wish, to destabilize the world for their own gain.

The nuke that they tested over South Africa’s Prince Edward Island in 1979 had the exact same 80 ms double flash and the exact same isotope impurity signature as the North Korea test. Far too close to be a coincidence.

For a riveting details, check out the recent Gordon Duff interview at Peter B Collins’ site.

you are a one trick pony with the blame America first thing, doesn’t make for very stimulating debate.

The young people in these countries want nothing more than to end this bullshit, also.

It is a zionist nation. Please do your home work. The socialist Jews (Bundes) were never allowed in.

Talk about it on this story and introduce it, then we can read about and respond. I just mentioned that israel is a zionist nation. They put the Star of David on the tanks. See, it can be done.

I don’t see a lot of people running around citing the Lancet Study and calling Iraq a Genocide.

So it may be only one trick but it’s a fucking splendid one.

As for your Iranian Firestorm Wetdream, cram it up your ass.

Israel does not recognize the right of Arab and Muslim countries to exist under the same ground rules. I guess that’s what you get when let supremacists run a country.

How would the residents of Harlem feel if the Klan moved in and required that everybody leave their doors unlocked?

The only solution is for Israel to negotiate a nuclear weapons ban with Iran. But Israel is a nation of hate, not peace, so it’s not likely to happen.

Ewwwwwww, I love it when you talk dirty to me sexy!

Of course you do.

You like to cram things up your ass while fascinating about firebombing children in Persia as though they were in Fallujah roasting in white phosphorus.

Your jollies.

left wing know nothing sort of talk. Iran has said over and over it wants to destroy Israel. And you expect Israel to sit with them and hammer out a treaty? wow.
Israel recognizes the right of arab countries to exist. show me where it does not.

silly boy. stop the foul language if you expect any one to take you seriously. Do you know what states existed in that region prior to 1947? UN allowed for arab and jewish state. Arabs said no. dopes.

I don’t care what people say. I live in reality. Isreal does not recognize the right of Arab and Muslim countries to exist under the same ground rules. That’s not something somebody said; it’s a fact.

You don’t have to be a stupid person. Think for yourself.

Do you know what was decided at the Red House in Tel Aviv on March 10, 1948, with ben Gurion in the chair and ten other, now patriarchs of Eretz Israel around the table? It was called Plan Daleth (תוכנית ‘ד) As you no doubt know, Daleth is the fourth letter in the AlephBeth. It was the fourth draft of the plan to purge Palestine of Palestinians, and in the following 7 months, 800,000 people were driven from their homes, the homes their grandparents had built in many cases, or were killed, 531 villages were destroyed, and the true meaning of “wiped off the map” began it’s slow gruelling march from then till now.

Iran has not invaded any of its neighbors in three hundred years. Longer than the US has existed as a political entity.

I knew before I clicked it. It’s an AFP article. They don’t accept comments. It costs time and money to repackage their articles so you can expostulate on them. Are you a sponsor?

As DC says below, just say your piece here. We’ll have a look at it, old fellow —

The number of Israelis killed by those bottle rockets, which are shot off by renegades within Gaza, are so few, there’s justification for wondering if they are False Flag, like most if not all terrorism. Ever heard of The Lavon Affair? Poor Pinchas Lavon got the blame (he was Defense Minister) and had to resign, even though it was the Army Intelligence guy, Benjamin Gibli, who sent those guys in Egypt to do those bombings and blame it on the Leftists.

Israeli spymaster Avri Elad traveled to Egypt posing as a German businessman named Paul Frank. He made contact with two cells of Israeli agents, one in Cairo and one in Alexandria. Members were young Egyptian Jews who had been secretly taught in Israel how to make explosives from locally-available materials, and returned to Egypt as a sabotage network to be activated during future Israeli-Egyptian hostilities. On July 14, 1954, while Egyptians were celebrating Bastille day as a symbol of the overthrow of monarchist tyranny, the young saboteurs exploded small fire bombs in US Government installations including the US Embassy (USIS) library in Cairo, and both the USIS library and US Consulate General in Alexandria.

These old bits are like Henny Youngman jokes. They’re always good for a laugh, eh?

Throwing good money after bad

Yeah, they fell for that 9/11 gag, eh?

Amadinnerjacket — wasn’t he the UpandComerBund?

Perhaps equally important. Conscience still matters a lot with me. But yeah, the world would spiral out of control.

You and Denny and anyone else interested in this should take note of the fact that many AFP articles do allow commenting, such as this one from last week: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/09/artificial-skin-sense-touch/
The fact that it is an AFP article is certainly no excuse for this. I would be very surprised to learn that it takes any more time to post an article with comments than it does without.

He is a liberal, they just wait to get their ass kicked and then want to negotiate by appeasement to avoid another, what did you expect?

Weapons grade uranium, that’s what they are working on now, just a matter of time before they upgrade and will be a force to be reckoned with. Should we wait and then later bite our nails in hope that they don’t utilize it? Or do we do it the lib way and negotiate until we exhaust all sanctions? Which it will still be assembled, or do we go the GW way and take out the nuclear facilities now? Before it is too late for action.

If not for America policing the world, you wouldn’t have a leg to stand on, would you?

Iffen you don’t liken America, go live in Iran, or better yet, go help em out in Iraq.

Don’t I?

Touché! I apologize. So you think it’s intentional — well, maybe. I remember years ago, when this site was in its infancy, Larisa let slip hints of serious threats to — well, I’m not sure whom or what, but there was a shadow of dark character, that as I recall was in some way related to that nameless country that you may have been thinking about.

I like this site, and I want it to continue. As you can see in this thread alone, I don’t pull my punches. I’m glad for the megaphone.

I’m hesitant to rail against the management for the above reasons. I could start a blog and maintain it every day — if I didn’t have to work a job to survive. So I try to roll with the punches if I can. I haven’t been banned here, like I was at KOS, for talking about 9/11, at least.

You know this how? The IAEA doesn’t know and you do?

Psychopaths frequently justify their crimes with claims of necessity.

Yea, I’ll let you tell it…

Not to mention killing a million children with dysentery, because “oh, we can’t let them have chlorine — they could make poison gas!”

Come on primate, do you honestly believe that they are not trying to get a bomb? seriously, the guy is a nut! They recently have given inspectors grief on how to inspect.http://www.bitaraf.com/showlink.php?id=1315619

No, Iran has said over and over, quoting Khomeini,

“The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time.”

The Farsi is “Imam ghoft een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad.”

To consider the fine details of the actual text see ‘Wiped off the Map’ – The Rumor of the Century

And if you really want to know what ‘Wiped off the Map’ looks like, here it is.

The latest IAEA report reflects that modus operandi. It includes multiple references to IAEA requests for information – or design details – that are met with stiff official replies saying that Iran had already complied with its obligations, or that details would arrive “in due time,” or that there was “no legal bases” for certain IAEA requests.

The report notes that in the space of the past eight months, Iran has increased its stockpile of homemade low-enriched uranium (LEU, at a level less than 5 percent) by more than half, to 2,800 kilograms (roughly 6,160 pounds).

Likewise, since February, Iran has created 22 kg (48.4 lbs) of uranium enriched to 20 percent – still some distance from the levels above 90 percent needed for a bomb, but technically not too far off the capability to do so.

The latest IAEA report reflects that modus operandi. It includes multiple references to IAEA requests for information – or design details – that are met with stiff official replies saying that Iran had already complied with its obligations, or that details would arrive “in due time,” or that there was “no legal bases” for certain IAEA requests.

The report notes that in the space of the past eight months, Iran has increased its stockpile of homemade low-enriched uranium (LEU, at a level less than 5 percent) by more than half, to 2,800 kilograms (roughly 6,160 pounds).

Likewise, since February, Iran has created 22 kg (48.4 lbs) of uranium enriched to 20 percent – still some distance from the levels above 90 percent needed for a bomb, but technically not too far off the capability to do so.

Well, when I make pungent statements, I always provide links. Hey, I made an effort to find some truth behind your cryptic allegations.

Well, if I were they, I would consider the very pronounced difference between the way Iraq and North Korea are treated. Iraq has been brought from the most secular and modern of Arab nations to the very “sides of the pit”, to quote Isaiah 14. Because they had no defenses. North Korea, who has nukes, is given much more courteous treatment in spite of their obstreperous behavior (although that ship sinking is False Flag for my money.) Who wouldn’t want something to shake at a marauding pack of wild dogs like those that have destroyed Iraq?

I remember the day that Bush pulled the inspectors out of Iraq. That same day CNN showed the inspectors going about their business unimpeded in Iraq, while, as it were a split screen, could have been, at the same time Bush is saying, “Saddam has thrown the inspectors out.”

By the way, when you say, “seriously”, it leaves me unmoved. I understand hasbarah.

But I’m not defending war crimes. That deficit spoils the formula.

I think they use more caution with Korea because that weirdo will utilize his nuke it seems, and they are not done in Afgan and Iraq yet to move on to that freak, first things first, they are trying to keep Sim appeased for now and i don’t think Obama has the balls to start any sh!t, with anyone anyway, but when the repubs take over the 2012 elections , if they do, things might go differently if things start to get out of hand.

You mean like the Jews of Iran who rebuffed the insistent invitation to make aliyah? They said, “no thanks — we like it here”. Remember?

Here’s a letter last week in the Irish Independent

Daniel Briscoe (Letters, September 11) says that the Islamic regime in Iran is viciously anti-semitic.

Dr David Morrison
Lansdowne Road, Belfast

Yea, but you can not equate Jews living in Iran to Americans living in America, way different lifestyles, and we should all thank God we were born here to worship and live as we please, totally different situations.That’s why I get pissed at people who down America, makes me feel that they don’t appreciate living here, when so many are dying crossing the borders to get a chance to live here, ungrateful cry babies.

“20 percent” — still within the compliance regime of the NPT, which Israel refuses to sign. They have cancer there, too, you know, and need radio isotopes for treatment.

Of course their cancers are nothing like those in Basra, where the “allies” dump all our radioactive waste in the form of A10 Warthog projectiles. Have you paid any attention to the sharply elevated level of horrendous birth defects in the most distressful country?

Even if gentiles are cattle, shouldn’t we have compassion on cattle?

More power to ya, friend! I also doubt that the people behind Raw would be doing such things on their own; John for one has said that whatreallyhappened.com is a “cool news blog” so he’s probably hip to 9/11… I certainly cannot accuse them of being secret Zionists due to all the other wonderful coverage on the site. That would be like claiming Noam Chomsky or Timothy Leary is (was) secretly working for the CIA. Taken as a whole, their words just don’t serve establishment interests… Same goes for Raw. Now the same cannot be said for HufingtonPost or DailyKos or Alternet. They ridicule and ban those who stray too far from the Party line, frequently publishing hit pieces to discredit ideas. Not so for Raw.

In conclusion, I am not blaming anyone for what I am calling attention to. I just get so annoyed by it sometimes that I have to point it out. I will continue to do so. Hopefully the problem will be resolved when the new site redesign changes come into place. If not, Raw should certainly be ashamed of themselves for something so simple. Raw is certainly the best news site I know of. Thats why I come here first. But there is always room for improvement, and to me this is a problem that is easily fixed.

As for your “shadowy figure” story I am quite intrigued… Any more information or links would be appreciated but I understand if there is none.

No, because by the time that happens, your opinion wont mean shit.
A war with Iran would be the coffin nail for the people of the USA, but the beginning of a new
oligarchy for the new military ruling class.

I AM SHOCKED!!!!

After Iraq and Afghanistan people don’t want to invade yet another country that did nothing to us?
THE NERVE!!! What are they thinking? Don’t they know that Israel needs a distraction at home because of the various war crimes they continue to perpetrate.

Do these people want Israeli war criminals held accountable?
THAT WILL NEVER EVER HAPPEN!!!
It’s Israel and if you say anything bad about Israel you are just a racist anti-Semite.
RIIIGHT???
ROTFL!!!

I see a flag fluttering, partially invisible…it has a skull and cross bones… no wait, a star…or is that a skull…no a star…skull…star…skull..star…

utter nonsense. the map first show not Israel (jewish) and Palestine land but land controlled by British Mandate. Then the UN made two possible states (2nd map[), then arabs invaded and lost land again and again. Why not blame those who tried to wipe out Israel and losttheir land? You regain land when your make a peace agreement. that is how it works.

I also like this site and have been around since the time when they were struggling to stay afloat. I too wish all articles had comments and there are times when it feels like they are not allowing comments on some of the most controversial issues they write about. I don’t understand why, but if RAW Story is reading these comments perhaps they will take note and make some changes. That said, I still haven’t found another site with as much alternative news as you can find here, and while it’s not perfect, it’s as close to a one-stop alternative news source as you can find anywhere.

Iran does not need to involve itself in war against Zionists. They are parasites and kill their host. In turn they die themselves.

why would they want a bunch of russian jews in their homeland, dipshit!

Israel has no right to exist in the first place. Except for the Jews who have lived in Palestine prior to 1947, all “Israelis” should be send back to the places they came from. They have no right whatsoever on the Palestinian land

So what?. Iranians have the right to possess nuclear weapons if they want to, Who the fuck do you think you are, to even believe you can determine which country can or cannot have access to military nuclear technology

“Do you know what was decided at the Red House in Tel Aviv on March 10, 1948, with ben Gurion in the chair and ten other, now patriarchs of Eretz Israel around the table”.

Excellent source documentation Primate…….I think I know the book from which you took the information :)……(written by an Israeli scholar?)

This was indeed the moment Israeli leadership decided the ethnic cleansing of Palestinian…….

“If not for America” paying the bills, Israelis would be walking bare foot and cannibalizing themselves…..

Israel is a fucking arrogant welfare nation

“That’s why I get pissed at people who down America”

The Downing of America is what is perpetrated by those who commit atrocity in our name, for the benefit only of a small few filthy rich war profiteers on Wall St. and a small few more land grabbers in Tel Aviv.

Oh, yes, and let me not forget that group of psychopaths (in case you don’t know what that is, it is someone who for various reasons, usually genetic and incurable, lacks a conscience and all ability to care about the suffering of others, or even fear of getting caught) — that group of psychopaths who fill the airwaves with blather defending and advocating such atrocity, and I mean war crimes that would have led to hanging if the were adjudicated at Nuremberg. (Think Fox News and Limbaugh)

“you don’t liken America, go live in Iran…”

If you really want to look even more idiotic, try telling me the same, because I am not a US citizen…… It might sound esoteric to you, but the entire world population is not composed of Americans.

I could use the same moronic rhetoric and advise you to move to Israel ,but you would label me as an “antishremitic”,and this, I cannot afford…..Lol

I can not comment here if anything I say (or others) is then answered by vitirolic, name calling, dirty mouth answers rather than a rational arguement worth debating. Note Musashi, just below my comment. (1) what homeland? since when? are the russian jews here referred to referring to Iran, Israel or the territory that is not a state, recognized as a state by the UN? and then the childlike dipshit remark! this is the sort of thing that children do before getting much schooling.

“Issrael is Jewish state–any Jew has the right to move there..”..
Says who?. God?.

International laws and jurisprudence do not recognize superstitious beliefs and magical thinking….

My holy book tells me I have the right to move in your living room, eat the food out of your fridge, have sex with your sister, and because my people were persecuted by Aliens some 60 years ago , you should shut up, accept what I do and pay for the Crack that I smoke…..Is it good enough for you?

I am not neutral. I want the illegal squatters who are occupying the land of Palestine, to be send back to Europe….

Chill out, you can call me “antishremitic” or “Jew hater” if that makes you feel better.

Well, too bad for him and you.

I am not a liberal and I support the right of Palestinians to self determination, by any means necessary….And yes,violence is the fucking option

I think that is a fair assessment. As to the shadowy stuff, it was like four years ago, and I can’t be sure of the details. All searchables and linkables are vanished I’m pretty sure. It was about the time Larisa’s blog At Largely began, maybe even in the first month or two. All the emails on my laptop are 08 or later. I’m running a search on the back HD on my desktop now, hoping that there is the emails I got from Larisa talking about their struggles. I’ll get back to you if I find them.

But as to the shadowy — if I’m not dreaming it, the name of Jane Harman seems to be in there somewhere.

The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine, by Ilan Pappe, formerly of Haifa University, now in exile at Univ. of Exeter in the UK

I’m not surprised that the Palestinian Authority is unpopular with Americans, it certainly is unpopular with the Palestinians. I’m encouraged that the poll shows that there is not blind support for aggressive war or blind support for others aggressive wars and genocides. Perhaps Americans are not as far gone as some would have us believe. Increasing support for torture is worrisome. Once governments believe that torture will be tolerated, I believe it will only be a matter of moments before law enforcement in the US will begin to openly use torture to extract ‘confessions’ from ‘criminals’.

Ah, yes, the British Mandate. Remember the day that Maj. Lawrence politely refused, at a royal audience on Oct. 30, 1918, the Order of the Bath and the DSO, leaving the shocked king George V (in his words) “holding the box in my hand” because he could not bear the shame of having been a part of such a betrayal as that of the Sykes-Picot Agreement?

I would remind the reader of Arthur Koestler’s famous quote, regarding the Balfour Declaration: “One nation solemnly promised to a second nation the country of a third nation”.

The Jewish Virtual Library posts on its site, citing as its source, the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs, a document called the Arab League Declaration on the Invasion of Palestine, to which I commend the reader, but will quote one short section:

The Pact of the League of Arab States declared that Palestine has been an independent country since its separation from the Ottoman Empire, but the manifestations of this independence have been suppressed due to reasons which were out of the control of its inhabitants. The establishment of the United Nations shortly afterwards was an event about which the Arabs had the greatest hopes. Their belief in the ideals on which that organisation was based made them participate in its establishment and membership.
8. Since then the Arab League and its [member] Governments have not spared any effort to pursue any course, whether with the Mandatory Power or with the United Nations, in order to bring about a just solution of the Palestine problem: [a solution] based upon true democratic principles and compatible with the provisions of the Covenant of the League of Nations and the [Charter] of the United Nations, and which would [at the same time] be lasting, guarantee peace and security in the country and prepare it for progress and prosperity. But Zionist claims were always an obstacle to finding such a solution, [as the Zionists], having prepared themselves with armed forces, strongholds and fortifications to face by force anyone standing in their way, publicly declared [their intention] to establish a Jewish State.

I would respectfully ask ‘postroad’ what if any specific disagreements he (or she) has with the document I reference here.

I hope we don’t have to hit Iran with retaliatory strike. hopefully their fucked up leaders will be overthrown by their people and cooler heads will prevail and they can join the world of responsible nations. And yep, there were no bad guys in Fallujah, just innocent children.

Never heard of the Lancet study, but I looked it up and it took my five seconds to see it is widely considered a flawed piece of research with controversial methodology.

If only America did not exist, there would be world peace forever! Uhhhh, right…

Americans only know what they’re told. If the truth were known about the ethnic cleansing that Israel is conducting against the Palestinians in their own land there would only be 25% favorable to Israel at all; and those favorable would only be due to the same voters who think the Rapture will occur any second now and the Bush was a good president because he was “born again.”

Show us a poll where the subjects are informed.

You all are missing the point except comment #2. Let me elaborate: On 10-10-10 the USA will do another false flag as a pretext to invade Iran and that same day America will be destroyed by Russia, China and the SCO. They have told us for four year they will nuke us over Iran and they’ve put the hardware in place to do it, where they took out our satellite, in Siberia. this is the war of Armageddon and you can know it is now by all the chemtrails sprayed every day globally to hide the sign in the heavens, Planet X. News here: http://www.docstoc.com/docs/6519605/WarNews

very cute! what you post is NOT wghat Israel sources accept as truth etc but what the Arab League has said in writing and is included in the Israeli document not as truth but to show what has been asserted. Note: the Arab League does NOT recognize the right of Israel to exist. Now show me that that is wrong. Imagine a nation existing for close to 60 years and its neighbors say they do not have a right to exist!

The Iran-Israel-USA exchange of threats and sabre rattling is like a long (and horribly boring) wrestling storyline with no in-ring action taking place…its something that someone as clueless and mediocre as Vince Russo would have probably shat out on a piece of paper in WCW circa 1999.

Israel and America fucking love creating enemies and threats out of thin air. They act like a bunch of gung-ho macho men but tend to whimper when faced with a determined and ruthless enemy….in Israel’s case it cries foul on antisemitism, holocaust denial, warsaw ghetto yadda yadda yadda. Come on! At least get a bit creative on your fucking excuses and enemy descriptions you fucking squatters!

Let me say at the start I am pleased that we are making the effort to discuss facts, and have not descended into vilification one of another. I believe in facts; I believe in the existence of facts, and I consider them to be the issue, and the only issue. It is our task to clarify exactly what they are and have been. I offer you the hand of friendship in this endeavor.

“what you post is NOT what Israel sources accept as truth etc but what the Arab League has said in writing”

I never meant to suggest otherwise.

“Imagine a nation existing for close to 60 years and its neighbors say they do not have a right to exist!”

60 years, in the case of the Zionist occupation of Palestine, or 1200 years, in the case of the English occupation of Ireland, is irrelevant.

What the Arab League refused to agree to, as stated in the document, is the breach of trust, again (as in 1155) by England.

In the earlier case, the single and only English pope Adrian IV, in his bull Laudabiliter gave Ireland to Henry II for “safekeeping”. Then began 1200 years of grinding poverty and exploitation, such that, in the Great Hunger, a million Irish starved and a million more fled for dear life, all the while English landlords were exporting Irish grain to England.

In the latter case, the Conservative former PM Arthur Balfour, albeit as Foreign Secretary under the ostensibly Labour PM David Lloyd George, created the document, his papal bull, the Balfour Declaration, which as I have said was aptly described by Koestler as the document in which “One nation solemnly promised to a second nation the country of a third nation”. If the Vatican is a nation then the same could be said of Laudabiliter. Again, it was also the occasion of Maj. Lawrence spurning the Order of the Bath.

The real question is, what in the Arab League document is unreasonable, that they should withhold the hand of agreement to what had been and continues to be a misrepresentation of the true intentions and actions of the other party, what ultimately amounts to a land grab of insatiable dimensions?

So, 47 percent support America’s wars with Israel. That’s incredibly too high and very dangerous. People don’t realize Israel was founded by Jewish terrorists. Google “irgun zvei leumi” if you don’t believe me. Israelis are no angels and they are not “the victims” in their war on Palestinians. The Palestinians have a legitimate gripe against being forcibly removed from their homes and kicked out of the country. One million Palestinian refugees live in Jordan. How many Americans know this?

“Ungrateful crybabies?” Because we want America to be as good as the promise we given by the Constitution and Bill of Rights?
Yes, never critique government policy-let the leaders and misleaders do as they please, according to your playbook.

Today is naughty day for you Shy Boy?. :)

Israel has been selling the same shit for decades, holocaust, the persecution of Jews,bla bla bla……but today no one gives a shit about what happened more than 60 years ago. Israelis have debased & prostituted their own suffering & tragedy to justify the atrocities they are committing on the Palestinians, it is about time for the international community to start calling Israelis for what they are.Thieves & psychopathic criminals.Nothing justifies what they have done.

To the everlasting whining-lamenting Jew, who asks for “love and compassion”, I have few words. Fuck you, this is what you give, this is what you get……

Indeed, and for having written this book (based and sourced on Israeli government documentations) Ilan Pappe lives in exile in the UK !

What a magnificent democracy Israel is…… The man who disclosed Israel military nuclear capacities, has spend more than 18 years in solitary confinement inside an Israeli jail. Israel is a can of worms

I finally found those emails that Larisa was kind enough to respond to. They were back in 06, and they are marked with a “restricted from publication” caveat, but I was worried about a Continuity of Government story, which, says she, “We covered it, silly”, but it scrolled before I saw it and got to comment. She then said she stayed up late into the night digging at it, but there wasn’t much there, not as much as I feared.

I know so much more now than I did then, such as Chairman Sen. Inouye swatting down a request for Oliver North to answer questions in open session about COG, and Inouye being adamant about blocking any discussion outside of closed session.

The people are essentially out of the picture in the conduct of US government, now if not always.

Those emails didn’t touch on the comments she made, I guess in a thread somewhere, about a hard sandstorm of complaints about posters saying certain things about a certain country. I thought maybe I had some of that conversation, but I don’t.

Ah! Finally it dawns on me — “postroad”. Not the road ridden my mail carriers in past centuries. It means “Post Road” — the “Roadmap” (and all other efforts at peace in Palestine) are past history. We’re “post road”. We’re past all that. A furthering of the “Clean Break” mentality — a clean break from attempts at peace with the former inhabitants of the land.

Did I guess right?

sorry. no ring for youl. Postroad=King’s Highway and it is close to me. I favor a 2-starte solution as the only sane thing. I think Israel wants it (polls) and also West Bank Palestinians. But Hamas, in Gaza, does not want it. To make only West Bank into a state would add more madness to the region.

Yea, if they had not threaten Israel and if they didn’t have a nut like you, for a leader.

Critique and vote or impeach THEM out, but don’t say America as a whole, we
as a whole can only go so far as to what our elected fools will do, when you
insinuate that all Americans think alike on the WWW. people read and you
just help spread the hate. Vote this November.

Ahmadinejad is a freakin tree hugging pacifist compared to me……

so that would make Grand Ayatollah Ali Hoseyni Khāmene a fluffy baby kitten compared to you!…XD

Opposition may be softening towards torture, but Americans are still very much against it.

really? do you have bombs?

Just what we need, a third war to make this whole mess complete.

[...] گزارش شبکه ایران به نقل از پایگاه اینترنتی “راو استوری“، کمتر از ۲۰ درصد آمریکایی‌ها موافق حمله نظامی [...]

Hater gonna keep on hating. How many Jews do you know personally? Did one do something to you before you became an anger-filled dyke? Was your childhood abuser Jewish or something because you spread your hate very well.

Oh? And what was Jordan called before it was called Jordan? Transjordan. And before that? Palestine. How about Hamas firing rockets daily into Jordan? Oh, too many Palestinians living there. Right. Gee, wonder why? It’s their land with a new name. Now scram.

Poll: Vast majority opposes attack on Iran | Raw Story…

I found your entry interesting do I’ve added a Trackback to it on my weblog :)…

Fatboy Rev Haggee wants US to attack Iran for Israel. God is Israel’s protector, not US, Period. Rev. Just stick to preaching and teaching Salvation and leave war to the Satanic Neocons and Skull and Boneheads Porky.

I agree with you completely.

Ahh the old Nazi card when criticizing free speech of those on the opposite side from you on the left right debate. When we discover that Rush is operating concentration camps is West Palm Beach, I will be the first to send him to a Nuremberg trial, but until then, he simply represents a viewpoint you disagree with.

LOL! you non-creative dumb mongrels use the same lewd tactics since you dont bring anything intellectual to the table other than an incandescent fart joke lil chipper!

Hahaha, I don’t have to “spread” anything, your “people” are doing a fine job on their own.

You want to know why more and more people are allergic to the word “Jew” ?, the persecution mania, paranoia, sheer racism and hypocrisy,the everlasting use of the holocaust to further political objectives, the relentless whining and blaming strategy, ego-centrism and feeling of superiority, the idea that the rest of the world is fixated on “Jews”,and owns them something.

I own nothing to the Jewish community, I don’t have to like Jews because I have been told that 60 years ago,some German lunatics treated them badly. You see, Dear Chosen one, I am applying your own values system. I am a Goy, your holy books teach you to hate me. I am not one of you, I don’t have to give a fuck about you…..

I have news for you Mr chosen one. I am like most people, I couldn’t care less about Jews, if they could stop for a day, from reminding us how pathetic and lunatic, the Jewish community, really is.

the universe doesn’t rotate around the Jewish question……Jews are irrelevant, as long as they refrain from behaving like psychopathic trauma babies. Get a fucking life, Hitler is dead and he is not coming back.

I am thinking of getting rid of my Swastika tattoo. What do you think? :)

Look again and you will see I said:

that group of psychopaths
>who fill the airwaves with blather defending and advocating
>>such atrocity, and I mean war crimes that would have led to &c.

Limbaugh and Fox advocate war crimes, but I do not think they would hang for it.

Those who committed them should. Make that “commit”, because they are ongoing.

I’m not sure Obama is culpable for the minute atrocities of, say, the death squads now being outed in Afghanistan.

I am fully certain that the Iraq war and its million-plus innocent lives lost, as well as the million innocent children that died there of dysentery under Clinton’s sanctions — these are patently war crimes worthy of Nuremberg.

The blowhards, their degree of guilt is subsidiary. Hanging is excessive, I have to say, in such cases.

So give the whole of Palestine to Jordan, is that the idea here? Israel can still keep Tel Aviv as a gift from Jordan.

lol….

What are you rambling about? The jews are great peoples, there good at business, medical advances, inventors and idealists…Ok so they killed My Jesus, but it was written in the Book.

Yawn…doom and gloom, have you ever heard of some document called the Constitution? or the Bill of Rights?

12 people liked this crap? now I know you are hacking into this site devil….liberals don’t hate no one….they stand for gays and radical muslims and baby killers and anything goes type of lifestyle, supposedly you all love everyone, not like those christian haters…what gives?

Get off the crack fool, then maybe you can see straight…

I wasn’t talking to you devildolt…you don’t count here, you are not American, your opinion only goes as far as your hand does when wiping your ass with a copy of The Constitution, so please stay out of American politics.

What’s a psychopath?

Because our branch of the thread is getting so narrow, I’m going to transplant it up to a wider place, where you said to me, “Yea, I’ll let you tell it… “. It’s so narrow, that I had to come over here to the DISQUS page to even have a button to click! To be continued following this post of yours

Hey, don’t worry about it, as I stated in earlier post, was doing my own
research for a paper I am writing on American atheism, and needed to nit
pick some atheists minds on here, wow, didn’t know so many non-believers
existed, I honestly find the subject fascinating, and have gained alot of
knowledge for my input. Yes I know what a psychopath is, I was just being a
smartass…laters..P.S. I won’t be here trying to defend God anymore unless
provoked out of hiding..lol…laters.

I am not American….Indeed. Do I feel lucky?. fuck yes…..Lol

I’m posting this reply here instead of with the post of yours that it relates to because the thread is getting so crowded and narrow. I hope you don’t mind.

In that post, you asked me, “What’s a psychopath?”. That’s very possibly the most important question anyone can ask. I’m becoming convinced of that recently, as I have been reading over at a site called Political Ponerology, a site dealing with the work of Andrew M. Lobacziewski (pronounced “Lobachevsky”), a Polish psychologist.

The word “ponerology” means the study of evil, from the Greek πονηρος (poneros), meaning “wicked”. The word “psychopath” is also Greek, coming from two words, ψυχη (which the Romans rendered as “psyche”) meaning “soul” and “παθειν” (pathein) meaning “to suffer”. You may be familiar with the term “pathology”, which is a general term in medicine to refer to the details of any disease condition. Looking strictly at the Greek, psychopathy simply means “soul suffering” or mental illness in general. But nowadays it has a very specific meaning.

Just as a color blind person has a hereditary lack of the hardware to distinguish, say, red from green, a psychopath has a lack of the hardware, (usually, although environmental factors can create a similar behavior) to be able to perceive fear and pain in others. The hereditary form of psychopathy is generally considered to be incurable and untreatable.

The usual example given for the psychopath is Ted Bundy, or some other such murderer. They have no shame, no sense of guilt about what they do. Where a normal person quickly picks up on fear, pain, or other suffering in a fellow human, or animal, the psychopath is utterly numb to these feelings. As a result, they move through society without a lot of the hindrances that caring people have. They advance in power structures quickly. They are very often charming, mystifying, slick, and may be very intelligent.

I urge you and any reader to take a look at the excerpts that are posted over at the Political Ponerology site, for a more comprehensive understanding.

But let me leave you with this: Robert Hare, a prominent researcher in the area, estimates that some 1% of humanity are psychopaths, more men than women. And it has been said that, the higher you rise in any organization, the more likely you are to encounter them, because they are attracted to power, and they are not hindered in their pursuit of it by any form of conscience.

Thanks for the input, I truly do appreciate you taking the time to research
this at my expense…God Bless

You are even more idiotic than I previously though . Where did you get the idea I was a “liberal ?.

Rabbi Ovadiah Yosef, former Sephardi Chief Rabbi of Israel gave us recently an example of recognition of Arabs.
And when exactly did Iran said it wants to destroy Israel? Who said it?

“Yea, if they had not threaten Israel …”
Former Sephardi Chief Rabbi of Israel Ovadia Yosef made recently the most “peaceful” comment about Palestinians. What does “wipe off the map” mean again?

So, leaving so soon, before anyone can critique your “god”?

The most religious bunch in the New Testament were those hypocrites that condemned every good work of charity Jesus ever did, and made common cause with the Roman Imperial Army to put him to death as a troublemaker. Do you take up the cause of the fallen and down trodden,. pouring oil and wine into their wounds? Or do you cross the road and beat a hasty retreat?

Keep it ^_^

Keep it ^_^

I guess agreeing with the liberal mass on this site, I must have assumed you were a liberal, what exactly do you represent? A worldly independent, with regard to world peace and tolerance of all except Jews?

I represent myself and think for myself.

The Jews?. I couldn’t care less about them if they were able to leave us “impure Goyims” alone. and stop blaming us for shits that happened half a century ago.

If I may ask, who are us?

No, just grew tiresome of blowing my own horn on the wrong website, plus I learned alot from this experience, all the knowledge gained will not go to waste, I hope we all learn to tolerate each other even if we don’t agree.

I have said and learned all I can stand on this site, as far as religion is
concerned, you can’t bring a dead mule back to life by continuously beating
it to death, also had a weak support base..lol, not many believed what I
believe, but like I said before the research was worth the time and I have
gained valuable knowledge from my little endeavor into the mind of the
non-believer as well as some raised eyebrows, at some of the hate towards
Christians, folks on this site over emphasize Christianity as an evil
empire, they should at least get to know some Christians as I do, they would
help anyone out in a heartbeat, feed you, clothe you, empower you to believe
in yourself, not to hate, all the one’s I know are just the most wonderful
people and would never hurt anyone physically or verbally, my church
welcomes all, shoot my mother’s brother is gay and he attends regularly!
This site is all hype and part hate, I welcome anyone to my church, believer
or not and see if you will not leave there with a smile on your face.

I was a Christian for 15 years, and I still have tender feelings toward those I fellowshipped with and toward the Bible, although no longer a theist. Jesus’ words, as ascribed to that name in the Bible, are some of the loftiest ever spoken. But as we see daily in the news, many so-called Christians, the best example being Gen. Boykin, are, to quote Rev. 2:9, are of the synagogue of Satan, and while touting their “pro-life” credentials, are avid supporters of all wars, the death penalty, subservience of women, denial of birth control (another form of patriarchal oppression of women) which results in a more terrible spread of AIDS, opposition to science in the name of Old Testament mythology, opposition to the proper teaching of history and civics, playing into the hands of the filthy rich — that’s probably the most harmful thing the average “Christian” does . Most of them do exactly what the Republican Party tells them to do — or worse: join with the wackiest of the Right Wing in destroying moderate Republicans. They have unlearned the admonition of James, if they ever read it at all:
“Do not rich men oppress you and draw you before the judgment seats?” [2:6]

But they make common cause with rank criminals like Jack Abramoff (I’m speaking of such as Ralph Reed, a pinnacle of the Christian Right — whoever falls for such is not “wise as a serpent”).

Jesus taught his disciples to “beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of Herod”, but the so-called Christian Right has despised that advice. Now, you take honest believers like the Amish community of Nickel Mines, PA, whose daughters were raped and murdered at their school by a sick milk truck driver, they received much wealth in the form of sympathy gifts from the public. They immediately made a public statement of forgiveness for the murderer and especially for his now fatherless family. They went to them personally to comfort them and confirm their love. They gave them the money they’d gotten from gifts, because, after all, his children were now without a provider. That’s pure Christianity. They have the comfort of scripture and followed the true teaching.

But these Dominionists, all they can think of is taking over. Beware of them, I warn you.

Of all who have scorned Christ on this site, I have the most ultimate respect for you as a man who has come to know Jesus and his teachings, as you warn me about Dominions, I warn you to try to continue your faith, regardless of what other so called Christians have done to dishonor and contributed to the deterioration of your faith. Yesterday I attended a bible study congregation that only comes around once a year and it was sponsored by my wife’s catholic church called “the encounter”, which really surprised me because the topic at hand was “Jesus, liar, lunatic, or Lord, which I found to be somewhat coincidental because I, after trying to find a support system for all the negativity I had experienced here on this site in regards to whether God and Jesus are reality and not just some human need to feel safe and comforted before and after death gained affirmation because this topic was not even brought up in last years encounter, anyway God bless you primate and please don’t lose the faith, you have nothing to gain from following a course of disbelief because of politics or those whose hearts are void of Christ, do not believe what the media portrays as being Christ like or not, believe only what the testament recommends and don’t take everything so literal, above all find your faith again and trust in our Lord Jesus Christ for his teachings were only to serve man and never self serving, Love and peace my brother in Christ and God Bless you and all who love you…till next time, Joe.
‘

” as you warn me about Dominions”

Dominionists

“what other so called Christians have done to dishonor and contributed to the deterioration of your faith”

My decision to cease believing in the supernatural had nothing to do with what anyone else did. It is strictly between me and the whole idea, or rather, between me and the Universe.

“Jesus — liar, lunatic, or Lord”

They left out the most important “L-word”: legend. Jesus is a legend. There may have been a real historical person, probably there was. But how much of the story has a historical basis is impossible to say. Obviously, it can’t all be true: people don’t rise from the dead.

“please don’t lose the faith”

I have no faith to lose — not, at least, in the supernatural. There is no such thing.

“those whose hearts are void of Christ”

This is an expression packed with over-leveraged metaphors, all based on presumptions which cannot be justified. The greatness of Jesus’ teaching, as it is presented in the NT, is mostly accessible to any honest person, whether they allow the supernatural or not. The parts that can’t be squared with a naturalistic viewpoint can be excused based on the meager science that existed in the first century, or must be relegated to legendary piffle. The advance of science has made it easy to live without the supernatural. But a thousand years ago, or even a hundred, it was considerably harder. Though many great minds did quite well, even then — only they had to keep it to themselves, or be burned at the stake!

“don’t take everything so literal”

That’s my advice to you, brother mine. You know, Thomas Jefferson admired the ethics of Jesus, but he took scissors to his NT and removed all the supernatural parts. That is now published under the title of The Jefferson Bible, and is handed out to every new member of Congress. I personally carry the entire New Testament with me in my PDA, King James Version, and also the Greek original, which I gathered off the web chapter by chapter. Just last week I found a great free Hebrew OT complete, with an app that overcomes my WindowsMobile’s inability to print Right-to-Left fonts. That app is also dual-language. My Greek is a lot better than my Hebrew, but I can comfortably make my way through them both.

I keep the miracles in the text, but I mentally scissor them out, at least the credibility of them. My life experience says, that doesn’t happen. Let me give you a word of advice: Mark’s gospel ends with these two verses (actually there are two more following them):

And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

If there were any believers, and these verses were true, why would not the hospitals be emptied out? Either there are no believers, or these verses are not true.

Fair enough…

- Born of a virgin (Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:21-23)
– A descendant of Abraham (Genesis 12:1-3; 22:18; Matthew 1:1; Galatians
3:16)
– Of the tribe of Judah (Genesis 49:10; Luke 3:23, 33; Hebrews 7:14)
– Of the house of David (2 Samuel 7:12-16; Matthew 1:1)
– Born in Bethlehem (Micah 5:2, Matthew 2:1; Luke 2:4-7)
– Taken to Egypt (Hosea 11:1; Matthew 2:14-15)
– Herod´s killing of the infants (Jeremiah 31:15; Matthew 2:16-18)
– Anointed by the Holy Spirit (Isaiah 11:2; Matthew 3:16-17)
– Heralded by the messenger of the Lord (John the Baptist) (Isaiah
40:3-5; Malachi 3:1; Matthew 3:1-3)
– Would perform miracles (Isaiah 35:5-6; Matthew 9:35)
– Would preach good news (Isaiah 61:1; Luke 4:14-21)
– Would minister in Galilee (Isaiah 9:1; Matthew 4:12-16) Would cleanse
the Temple (Malachi 3:1; Matthew 21:12-13)
– Would first present Himself as King 173,880 days from the decree to
rebuild Jerusalem (Daniel 9:25; Matthew 21:4-11)
– Would enter Jerusalem as a king on a donkey (Zechariah 9:9; Matthew
21:4-9)
– Would be rejected by Jews (Psalm 118:22; I Peter 2:7)
– Die a humiliating death (Psalm 22; Isaiah 53) involving:
1. rejection (Isaiah 53:3; John 1:10-11; 7:5,48)
2. betrayal by a friend (Psalm 41:9; Luke 22:3-4; John 13:18)
3. sold for 30 pieces of silver (Zechariah 11:12; Matthew 26:14-15)
4. silence before His accusers (Isaiah 53:7; Matthew 27:12-14)
5. being mocked (Psalm 22: 7-8; Matthew 27:31)
6. beaten (Isaiah 52:14; Matthew 27:26)
7. spit upon (Isaiah 50:6; Matthew 27:30)
8. piercing His hands and feet (Psalm 22:16; Matthew 27:31)
9. being crucified with thieves (Isaiah 53:12; Matthew 27:38)
10. praying for His persecutors (Isaiah 53:12; Luke 23:34)
11. piercing His side (Zechariah 12:10; John 19:34)
12. given gall and vinegar to drink (Psalm 69:21, Matthew 27:34, Luke
23:36)
13. no broken bones (Psalm 34:20; John 19:32-36)
14. buried in a rich man’s tomb (Isaiah 53:9; Matthew 27:57-60)
15. casting lots for His garments (Psalm 22:18; John 19:23-24)
– Would rise from the dead!! (Psalm 16:10; Mark 16:6; Acts 2:31)
– Ascend into Heaven (Psalm 68:18; Acts 1:9)
– Would sit down at the right hand of God (Psalm 110:1; Hebrews 1:3)

What do you think about these prophesies from the Old to the New? How do you
think these came about?

“What do you think about these prophesies from the Old to the New? How do you think these came about?”

Let me answer your question with a question — here is a story from the sacred text of the Vikings, about Thor, Loki, and a certain giant. Of course, the Bible speaks about the giants, as in Gen. 6:4

There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.Here is the passage I mean to quote to you

Thor and his companions arrived at Utgard. Utgarda-Loki was the king of the giants.
Utgarda-Loki told them he would allow them stay at Utgard, if they had any special skill. Loki declared he could out-eat any giant. Loki ate all of the meat from the bone, but his rival named Logi, ate meat, bone and even the trencher. Obviously Loki lost to Logi.
Then Thialfi challenged the giant in a foot race, but he lost all three races against the giant named Hugi, each time doing worse than the last time.
Next, Thor challenged them a drinking contest. Utgarda-Loki had a servant bring out a long drinking horn. Anyone able to empty the horn in one draught would be considered a great drinker, and a good drinker in two draughts.
Try as he might, Thor could not empty the horn in one draught. The frustrated thunder-god couldn't even finish it in two or even three draughts.
Thor was becoming quite belligerent, preferring to fight someone. Utgarda-Loki challenged Thor if could lift a large cat. Thor struggled and tried to lift the large cat off the ground, but failed. All he succeeded was lifting one of the cat's legs.
Thor insisted on fighting someone. Utgarda-Loki, however, sent an old crone named Elli to wrestle with Thor. Thor could not even move the crone, but the old woman managed to pull him off balance.
Thor was ready to bash the giant for the embarrassment, but Utgarda-Loki placating offered the angry god and his companions a place to sleep.
In the morning, after Thor and his friends ate their breakfast, the king of the giants took them outside of Utgard.
Utgarda-Loki revealed the truth of the events of the last few days. Utgarda-Loki told Thor that he was Skrymir, the giant they met in the forest.
Skrymir was actually an illusion. Had Thor struck right on the mark, he would have killed Utgarda-Loki. The contestants that Thor and his companions had compete against, were also illusions.
Loki did not lose the eating contest to a giant (Logi), but to a wildfire. While Thialfi raced against Utgarda-Loki's thought, not the giant Hugi.
The other end of drinking horn was out in the sea. What Thor was drinking was the sea. The level of the sea had actually dropped considerably from Thor's deep draughts.
As for the cat. Well, one of the cat's legs, Thor managed to lift off the ground was actually the tail of the Midgard Serpent. And the old crone (Elli) Thor was wrestling with, was nothing but "old age" itself.
Utgarda-Loki was really quite amazed what Thor managed to achieve. Utgarda-Loki told Thor to leave Jötunheim. He told Thor that he would protect his domain again with deception and illusion if the thunder-god ever returned.
Thor was outraged by the deception, and would have killed Utgarda-Loki, had the giant not vanished out of thin air. Thor was going to storm Utgard, but the castle also vanished. Thor had no choice but to return home.
How do you explain all these rather unusual events? Do they not indeed prove not only the divine character of Thor, but also the supernal nature of the all the races of Midgard?

“Textual Criticism” & Manuscript Attestation

Work When written Earliest
Copy Time span No. of copies
Herodotus 488-424 BC AD
900 1300yrs. 8

Thucydides c450-400BC AD
900 1300yrs. 8

And yet, no classical scholar would deny their authenticity!

Tacitus AD 100
1100
1000 20

Caesar’s Gallic war 58-50 BC AD
900 950
9-10

Livy’s Roman History 56BC-AD17 AD
900 900 20

New Testament AD 40-100 AD 130
full 300 5,000 + Greek

Manuscripts AD 350 10,000
Latin

9,300 Others

When you compare the evidence, it is easy to see how historians, whether
Christian or secular, agree that the texts of the New testament stands
absolutely & irreproachably alone amongst ancient prose writings, are in
fact authentic…..
Please do some research on this if you like and elaborate.

“historians, whether Christian or secular agree that” Jesus rose from the dead?

Hogwash! Your ability to deceive yourself apparently knows no bounds.

Seems like your running from the truth, I presented FACTS, and you only presented old wives tales.

Let me get this straight [for those wondering what the context is, for some reason it is only on DISQUS here — don't ask me why they are disconnected].

You said:

"When you compare the evidence, it is easy to see how historians, whether Christian or secular, agree that the texts of the New testament stands absolutely & irreproachably alone amongst ancient prose writings, are in fact authentic....."See how you have the plural noun “texts” modified by a singular verb “stands”? If you had kept the clause

the New testament stands absolutely & irreproachably alone amongst ancient prose writingswhich you appear to have lifted whole from some other source, that would be grammatically correct. Likewise, if you had left out the section from “stands” through “writings”, you would have had a grammatically correct sentence:

"When you compare the evidence, it is easy to see how historians, whether Christian or secular, agree that the texts of the New testament are in fact authentic....."Grammatically correct but factually hogwash. No secular historian, ie., unbiased by myth, would ever agree that tales of people rising from the dead are “authentic”, unless you mean “authentic myths”. The story I quoted from the Elder Edda is an authentic document, faithfully preserved from its creation, probably about 800 AD. That says nothing about the veracity of its fanciful stories. Likewise the NT.

I know a considerable amount about the textual history of the NT as it now exists. I have a critical text in Greek, which is to say, essentially the Westcott & Hort text based on those Alexandrian manuscripts, primarily Vaticanus or B, but also a lot of papyri, which the critics say are older texts merely because the parchment or papyrus they are written on is older. That doesn’t convince me — they simply survived from an early date because of the dry weather in Egypt, as compared with what is known as the Majority Text, of which the maintenance was primarily in Syria, a much moister climate.

Tell me, how well do you read the Greek originals, O scholarly one? Are you familiar with the dispute about what is known as the “Comma Johanneum”? Can you quote it for me?

P.S. — have you ever seen a critical apparatus? Here’s a page from mine (click on the image to expand to full size), with some of my scribbled notes from about 1985. And here is the corresponding page from the companion volume, a Textual Commentary. These are both from the Bible Society, published in Stuttgart.

for some reason my reply to this is on a different URL (located here)

Have you noticed that our replies are never connected anymore? Are you getting them via email? I hope so.

You yourself admitted that you were once “deceived”, so why do you question my so called deception, and the info I presented was to authenticate the fact, that others beside the bible had included Jesus in their recordings of history, it is up left up to your own faith if you wish to believe in the resurrection. By the way, I accidentally hit the liked feature displayed on here yesterday.

I have been receiving via E-mail, have you?

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OK, I agree that the NT is an ancient document. Jesus may even have been a historical character, as opposed to a legendary one.

But as to his fulfilling all those prophecies, which you referenced in the prior post, how do you know that? The Elder Edda which I quoted is also an ancient document. Full of stories. Fantastic stories. No one doubts its antiquity. But by the same token, no one credits its account of anything in particular. It is of value for the light it sheds on the culture of the Norsemen.

I am not sure if you are trying to say the Bible is true history, or merely that it is mentioned by other contemporary writers.

Let me ask you this: you know the Book of Daniel, right? Daniel is carried away to Babylon, and interprets a dream of the King, about a great image with head of gold, shoulders of silver, thighs of brass, legs of iron and feet of mixed iron and clay. This is looked upon as a prophecy of kings and kingdoms (Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome) which were at that time still in the future.

But what proof do you have that the prophecy actually predated the events? do you have evidence of its existence prior to these succeeding kings?

If not, then you probably would be interested in a deal that I got in email from the former finance minister of Nigeria. Just send him $6000 to enable him to process the paperwork and he’ll split a million with you. Let me know if you’re interested.

I just read this today, don’t know why it did not appear on my e-box? But I
just found it and I have to awaken early to finish some tasks that will take
most of my day off, so I will make it brief. If you scroll down to where the
new testament is presented(textual at testament e-mail) and look at the
tremendous amounts of copies that were created to give to the masses, why do
you suppose that so many people wanted to be a part of this “revelation”?
Why did so many people believe this man called Jesus? Could it have been
that he did actually cure the sick and performed miracles as stated? I mean
if God is the all powerful and created everything, should he not be able to
empower this man called Jesus? I argued with a liberal friend of mine one
night on chat available here on Gmail and we went back and forth, for he
claimed to be a devout Christian and thought of himself as an extremely
intelligent chap, but he also believed in the whole “enchilada”, regarding
intelligent design by God, but that we somehow evolved from apes…hhmmm,
anyway I then resorted to pick his intelligence a little, so to speak, and
don’t get me wrong, he is a keen individual, and schooled in the bible, so
anyway, I asked about his beliefs in God and he believed no doubt, Then I
asked him if he believed in the resurrection of Christ, he stated no doubt,
the I proceeded to ask him that if he believed in God’s power to re animate
dead tissue and bring Jesus back from the dead, why did he find it so
difficult to believe that man was created by God as stated in the bible,
needless to say, he seemed dumdstruck…just thought I would share that with
you, I found it of some interest. In regards to your other e-mail sent
yesterday regarding the Vietnam and korean wars, I will need some time to
read and absorb everything you sent, so it may take awhile, but since you
took the time to write and send it, I will evaluate some of it. Please give
me some of your input on why do you think so many people suddenly wanted to
be a part of the “Jesus sensation”, in regards to the popularity of the New
Testament in those times?

Archery and War…

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