Government withholding key data on Gulf seafood testing, scientists say

By Brad Jacobson
Thursday, October 7, 2010 8:18 EST

Gulf states not following consistent protocol, despite government claims

National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) and FDA officials maintain they’ve provided results of ongoing Gulf seafood safety tests with the utmost transparency. But outside scientists, eager to perform independent evaluations of the government’s findings, complain the information released contains far too many unknown variables that preclude peer review.

In recent interviews, FDA and NOAA officials told Raw Story that they’ve been completely transparent in sharing ongoing Gulf seafood testing data, protocol and methodologies.

Whenever we reopened [waters], we’d post the data that we used and the FDA certified it as good enough to reopen,” said NOAA spokeswoman Christine Patrick. “So that’s all publicly available and it has been since we started reopening.”

“There’s nothing we are withholding,” echoed FDA spokeswoman Meghan Scott.

Yet in wide-ranging interviews with Raw Story, multiple independent scientists involved in studying the effects of the Gulf oil spill not only revealed that government claims of sufficient transparency are wholly misleading, but they also provided several key examples of how withholding this information precludes independent evaluation and opens a raft of critical unanswered questions.

Raw Story’s investigation also found that federal officials continue to publicly claim (as they as did as well in our interviews) that Gulf states follow the agreed-upon protocol set by NOAA and FDA for the reopening of previously closed waters.

But scientists in close discussions with these agencies informed Raw Story that the Gulf states are actually making their decisions for reopening waters on a case-by-case basis with no consistent set criteria — making the basis for state reopenings of previously closed waters an even greater unknown for independent scientists.

Released data insufficient for independent evaluation

“We’re a little worried that these samples so far may not be as thorough as they might need to be and there could be areas that are missed,” said Gina Solomon, a doctor and public health expert in the department of medicine at the University of California at San Francisco.

“That’s the fundamental concern,” added Solomon, a co-author of the recent peer-reviewed Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) study on Gulf seafood safety.

Timothy Fitzgerald, a marine scientist with the Environmental Defense Fund who testified last week to the National Oil Spill Commission, said, “Given the work that we do and the level of resolution we usually rely on, if they’re going to provide technical detail I would very much like them to actually provide it in as raw a form as possible.”

“What they’ve done in a lot of instances is [provide] kind of first or second order binning or summarizing or distilling, which makes a lot of the data unusable or unavailable,” Fitzgerald continued.

“It’s not that it doesn’t exist,” he said. “It’s just that it hasn’t been provided in a way that scientists could really make a lot of use out of it.”

Miriam Rotkin-Ellman, a staff scientist at the Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC) and a contributor to the JAMA study, said there is no clear description of the scientific method being applied to determine how they select the locations to sample, how many samples they take, or how they are sampling to ensure that the areas they are reopening are free of oil.

“All of this remains information that we have asked various different agencies for, and this includes NOAA and the FDA, and they have not provided it,” Ellman said. “It’s not part of the materials that are on their website and it remains this very big blank to the transparency of how these safety considerations are being made.”

Solomon and Ellman said NOAA officials have described a more specific sampling plan for federal waters by phone but have not provided them with a copy despite repeated requests.

“So the question is, why?” Solomon said. “It seems strange that it hasn’t been made available for peer review.”

Solomon, Ellman and other scientists interviewed by Raw Story noted that while there is much information lacking from the sampling plans and data released for the reopening of federal waters, even less is known about the determinations behind the reopening of state waters.

For every reopening of federal waters for commercial and recreational fishing, NOAA and FDA follow an agreed-upon protocol for the testing of seafood and water samples.

The Gulf states, which must submit a proposal to the FDA for any waters reopened, follow no consistent protocol for the reopening of state waters, Raw Story has found.

Federal officials publicly claim that Gulf states also follow “the same” agreed-upon protocol set by NOAA and FDA. Before reopening any previously closed state waters, Gulf state officials must submit a sampling plan for certification to the FDA.

But according to Solomon and Ellman, who have had several discussions with federal agencies regarding state reopenings, each individual Gulf state makes its decision for reopening waters on a case-by-case basis, with no uniform criteria or protocol.

They asserted to Raw Story that when they requested a specific sampling plan for the reopening of state waters, a senior FDA official, Donald Kraemer, was “really quite clear” that none existed.

Solomon said Kraemer told them “that there are no criteria, that there is no sampling plan, that there is no clear protocol, that there is no minimum number of samples required, that there’s no specific buffer zone between oil contaminated areas and reopened areas that the agency’s requiring.”

Solomon lamented, “All of that was surprising and somewhat disturbing.”

When Raw Story emailed Kraemer directly and requested that he respond to these statements attributed to him, he wrote back, “Sorry…you need to come in through the press office.”

Yet after forwarding our request to his direct press office liaison, Michael Herndon, Raw Story did not receive a response.

Gaping holes in data may impact integrity of testing

FDA and NOAA officials repeatedly assured Raw Story that they’ve taken a “conservative” approach to testing Gulf seafood.

At the close of an elaborate presentation to Raw Story on seafood safety procedures, NOAA toxicologist John Stein averred, “We’re confident that we have a well-designed seafood safety program and comprehensive testing.”

But independent scientists not only said there’s no way to confirm this, but also provided specific examples of what’s missing from the data and how it can impact the integrity of the test results.

Ellman, staff scientist at the NDRC, noted that there’s no information to conclude that there is adequate testing of the water below the surface for the presence of oil before areas are reopened.

“We know that dispersants made the oil move from the surface, so it’s less likely to be a surface slick and much more likely to be below the surface, a sub-surface plume,” she pointed out.

Carys Mitchelmore, an aquatic toxicologist and associate professor at the University of Maryland, agreed.

“Most of this oil is below the surface. So I would be more concerned with the stuff you don’t see,” Mitchelmore said.

Indeed, Raw Story confirmed that the language in the protocol is vague regarding the testing of waters for the presence of oil before reopening waters to commercial and recreational fishing. Under “Specific Re-opening Criteria” in the protocol, it states:

“Evaluation of oil movement — Confirmation that the closure area is free of sheen on the surface by visual observation and/or aerial reconnaissance, or the presence of oil in the water column through visual observation or water testing.”

Chris Pincetich, a toxicologist and marine biologist at the Sea Turtle Restoration Project, criticized the “very ambiguous” nature of this passage.

“That doesn’t define anything. It doesn’t give you any detection limits,” Pincetich said with a note of exasperation.

He continued, “In one case, they may say, ‘My satellite shows a cloud. Oh, what about aerial? Well, no one saw anything. What about water sample? We didn’t get a water sample either.’ Well, they may be able to say, ‘Well, our aerial survey didn’t see any oil. Let’s reopen it.’ That’s really ambiguous.”

Specificity on buffer zones — areas between closed oiled waters and waters open for commercial and recreational fishing — is also conspicuously absent from the protocol and is a point of contention for outside scientists.

The only mention of buffer zones in the protocol states:

“Fishery closure areas also include areas that NOAA projects will have surface oil and a precautionary buffer zone around known contaminated waters to account for uncertainty.”

When Raw Story pointed out to the FDA that there’s insufficient information for other scientists to ascertain how buffer zones are being determined, the response was less than forthcoming.

“Are they proposing something different that they think would be a better [method]?” agency spokeswoman Scott replied.

After Raw Story reiterated that outside scientists are merely trying to pinpoint how such determinations are being made, Scott said, “By hundreds and hundreds of scientists.”

Raw Story then noted that while it may be based on findings by “hundreds and hundreds of scientists,” independent scientists are saying that these kinds of determinations are not clear enough in the materials being released online.

“Uh, sure,” Scott said. “If that’s what they’re saying, I agree that’s what they’re saying.”

Additionally, scientists pointed out that knowing what the contaminant levels of the fish and shellfish in the closed areas are would help them assess how safe it is to fish outside the buffer zones.

But to date, no information has been released on contaminant levels of marine life within closed areas.

“I would like to see the data from a polluted site, from a closed site,” Mitchelmore said. “Just for me as a scientist, I would like to see the flip side. I’d like to see what these organisms look like when they’ve taken them from a closed area.”

Raw Story found a related passage in the protocol that alarmed scientists.

“After confirming through subsequent evaluation that oil did not enter an area,” it states, “the area may be re-opened without subjecting seafood samples to evaluation under this protocol. This protocol is an added layer of protection being applied to seafood only in areas known to have been contaminated.”

That seafood may be deemed uncontaminated based solely on water sampling, scientists said, does not adequately take into account the movement of both oil and marine life.

“There’s a defined spatial and temporal context here — oil moves,” explained Mitchelmore. “With these undersea [oil] plumes, you’re not going to see sheens on the surface. Sediment resuspends. Organisms move from one area to another.”

“So how representative is each sample in a huge big area on a temporal and a spatial scale?” she continued. “What if there’s something in the sediment or a plume you’re not seeing? Waters are not well mixed.”

Bottom-feeders such as shrimp, which also migrate daily from the seabed to the surface, are at an even greater risk for undetected contamination in waters where seafood is not being tested, scientists said.

“The ecology of shrimp is that they stay on the bottom all day long and at night they come up and that’s when they fish for them,” said Pincetich. “So any oil in the sediment, any oil in the bottom of the ocean, is interacting with the shrimp on a daily basis.”

“So now we’re talking about long-term chronic exposure of these shrimp to the oil,” he added. “And that’s a concern, that’s really a concern for public safety.”

Many scientists also expressed frustration over the lack of clarity in the released sensory and chemical analyses of the seafood, which they say may be inflating both the quality and quantity of the testing.

Scientists explained that while the data might show that ten different fish have been tested, those ten fish are often ground up into one sample. Then one test would be run on that sample.

So ten fish may have been tested but only in one sample, which, in some cases, scientists said, could inflate the number of seafood tested.

“The takeaway number from that is one and not ten,” said Fitzgerald of the Environmental Defense Fund. “But that’s why you may see numbers like 40,000 fish have been tested. Well, not really — 40,000 fish may have been collected.”

Mitchelmore pointed out that government scientists utilize such sample sizes in analyses to reduce variability, because even within the same species tested there’s a great deal of individual variability — from size, age and sex to “whether one of them just fed on a big plump oil-laden oyster.”

She said this methodology would be sound but only if they’re repeating such analyses of the same species multiple times in a given area before and after waters are reopened, thus increasing their sample sizes to make up for dilution.

“If you think of the scenario where you’ve got nine little things that haven’t accumulated [contaminants] but one big one that has accumulated a lot, then that one gets diluted out by those other nine,” Mitchelmore explained. “So your levels appear lower.”

“Increased sample sizes is key,” she added.

But based on the data released, it’s not clear this is occurring.

Fitzgerald also noted that the numbers are “not nearly as convincing” when you start to get into a finer level of details.

When he analyzed how many sensory tests (or “sniff tests”) versus chemical tests have been performed, he found that the number of samples actually sent to a lab to be chemically analyzed is far lower.

“If you count up every single animal that was collected to be tested either by the sniff or the chemical, it’s probably in the tens of thousands,” Fitzgerald said. “But then if you actually look at how many tests they’ve done, whether it’s sniff or chemical, it’s much lower than that.”

Catastrophic spill and sluggish response demand greater transparency

Every researcher interviewed by Raw Story — from marine biologists and toxicologists to public health experts and oceanographers — agreed that the massive size of the spill, the unprecedented use of dispersants and early ineptitude in responding to the disaster puts the onus on federal and state officials to maximize the transparency of their seafood safety testing.

“Part of food security is the sort of peace of mind that people have about eating it,” said Ian MacDonald, an oceanography professor at Florida State University and an expert in measuring oil spills. “People are deeply anxious about the security of all aspects of the Gulf following this spill — whether it’s seafood safety or the dispersants or food chain effects and all that. That’s the legacy of this.”

Testifying before the National Oil Spill Commission last week, MacDonald said that, contrary to Obama administration claims that the majority of oil is “gone,” he estimates that over fifty percent of the oil remains in the Gulf in “a highly durable material that resists further dissipation,” with much of it “now buried in marine and coastal sediments.”

“Everybody’s credibility has been damaged by all this,” MacDonald continued in his interview with Raw Story. “Many changes of course that NOAA took. The great concern about EPA and the licensing of dispersant use. The fact of the way it was handled has undermined public confidence.”

“So I think it overwhelms the sort of standard approach towards reassuring the public in terms of food safety,” he added.

Pincetich, the marine biologist and toxicologist from the Sea Turtle Restoration Project, cautioned, “They really need to throw out their old rulebook. This is a massive, toxic situation with millions of peoples’ health at risk.”

“And if they’re not using the best technology in the most transparent, comprehensive ways,” he continued, “then they’re really falling short of being public servants and protecting our health and well being with their decisions.”

“They have a long, long way to go to restore public trust,” MacDonald said.

Brad Jacobson is a contributing investigative reporter for Raw Story.

This is the fourth in a Raw Story Investigates series on Gulf of Mexico oil spill contamination:

Part I: Gulf seafood poses long-term health risks

Part II: Heavy metals go untested in Gulf

Part III: Gulf oil dispersant contained extremely toxic carcinogen

Brad Jacobson

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Dolmance

Sounds hideous. I won’t touch the stuff, maybe ever. I hope BP and it’s deregulation crazy enablers haven’t destroyed the oceans forever.
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Anonymous

Yummmmm…Gulf seafood. I’d rather take my chances with fugu.

It will be at least thirty years before anything that is pulled from the Gulf will be even moderately safe to eat.
Anonymous

This story appears as a hatchet job. Fish are being tested. The FDA has admitted that time and again. That some scientists aren’t happy because they aren’t part of the “policy making decision control group” is too bad. They haven’t posted any contrary evidence, only that they have “questions”. That is the same method used by “troofers”, Kennedy conspiracists, and climate change deniers.

BUT,

I feel they should shut down the fishing for another reason. Close the entire Gulf for two or three years. With the damage done to the ecology by the spill, massive amounts of the Gulf ecosystem have taken a huge hit. Not only marine animals, but plankton and other flora. Fishing the adults will only remove much of the reproductive capability, further straining the viability of many species.

Second, allowing more time for the natural biological breakdown of the oil (and dispersant) will help ensure that these large subsurface plumes can dissipate. It can’t hurt and can only benefit the long term viability of the Gulf ecosystem.
http://pulse.yahoo.com/_K6HL2L4KGEI7EPU5A72SICPEQY adam

Lets make it real simple. Gulf seafood is garbage. It has been destroyed. Don’t wait for the gov to tell you it is safe. It isn’t. It won’t be until we are long dead. Remember 9/11. The air is safe. Go outside and play.
Anonymous

Mr_fusion (or is that Mr_Confusion?),

Did you happen to read the article? Are you a government troll? Nowhere does it imply no testing of fish is happening.

And it’s not that scientists are moaning they’re not in the decision-making process. They just want to do what all scientists and sound science do — independently validate the testing.

For good reason:

Oil Spill Panel: White House Blocked Federal Scientists From Releasing Worst-Case Scenario For Gulf Disaster
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/06/oil-spill-panel-white-hou_n_752612.html
Anonymous

felix–

I agree with you when it comes to shellfish, but bony fish will probably be ok after about 5 years or so.

There’s no help for the shrimp industry. With the toxins in the soil and muck that the shrimp eat/live in, it can’t be trusted.

Thanks, BP.
antiM

transparency please.
Anonymous

Solid reporting by Raw.
The Feds have been consistently dishonest so far, and the exchanges recounted above sound a lot like obfuscation and stonewalling. Fortunately, the Gulf is too big to keep hidden, and the seafood will make it to the public (and independent testing, one assumes) before long.
Anonymous

Let me help the independent scientists. Their counterparts that work for the govt have a vested interest. It’s to protect BP at all costs(literally). That would be at the cost of sea creatures, humans and the truth. It’s called a c o v e r u p. A criminal coverup.
Anonymous

The scientists have lots of question because the Feds refuse to provide answers (and then they claim “transparency). But we know there are problems, because there have been huge fishkills and die-offs of other marine life, including seafood legally caught by fishers that reeks of oil and dies prematurely–there is tons of contrary evidence. If the government claims to provide the answers, why aren’t they answering the questions these scientists have?
It’s the same as with 9/11 and JFK–the government story doesn’t fit the known facts, and the government is preventing independent scientists from finding out more.
Anonymous

I’m not sure about that. Crude oil contains a lot of heavy metals, which get into the food chain and stay there a long, long time.
Anonymous

Of, by and FOR the people, eh? Well, i suppose so, since corporations are people.
michael2317

Federal agencies and Judges alike appear to be unified in the denial of the “Public’s Right to Know.”

“Are these corn flakes genetically altered?”
“None of your damn business! ”

“Does this Salmon have insect genes?”
“That’s protected corporate information!”

“Is the Federal Government eavesdropping on all cell phone and internet activity?”
“Can’t say, National Security… You got some ID buddy?”

“Where did all the bailout money go?”
“I can see you’re going to be a problem…”
Anonymous

This is to be expected in a propaganda driven economy.
Anonymous

Yes, ask questions and pretend the government isn’t answering. There is nothing to suggest the information being released is wrong. BUT, that isn’t enough for conspiracy freaks. It’s all about those black helicopters overhead and strange men at the corner whispering into their wrist watches and scratching their ears. The government is coming to sell you into slavery, take all your civil rights, throw you into some gulag, inject your soy burgers with mind controlling drugs. Yes, we know, you have proof too. Its the Bilderburgers, Masons, or Infantity or whatever effen group that are going to dominate the one world order.

Damn, you effen conspirists are worse than the retarded tea baggers.

…

The known facts are out there. There are sections of the Gulf that were not effected by the oil spill. There are sections that are. The only way to know is to test the catch. Those sections found contaminated remain off limits for fishermen.
Anonymous

Anyone who has followed this tragic BP gusher story knows the deceit and lies by the government is almost as deep as the oil plumes. Kudos to Raw story for keeping us abreast; there is no excuse for the government to lie about this, regardless if BP is a supplier to the military.
Anonymous

Gulf crude is known as a light crude and has few contaminants in it. It is very close to the standard by which other crude oils are measured. (Texas Brent is the standard) Any heavy metals are in extremely minute amounts, if at all.

Gulf crude has more hydrogen and natural gases than does most other crude. That is why such a large amount evaporated compared with the Exxon Valdez spill which was a heavier crude. Most Gulf crude is “sweet” in that it is low in sulfur and metals.

I would be more concerned with the dispersant used.

But even so, I wouldn’t want to eat any. Thank you.
http://revolutionradio.org/?p=6771 Government withholding key data on Gulf seafood testing, scientists say | RevolutionRadio.org

[...] Brad Jacobson RawStory.com Thursday, October 7th, [...]
Anonymous

more like “mr_CONfusion”
http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/42THFKXIPMJHQBIH6OPI4RVIDY Thebes

Of course they are withholding data. The White House forbid NOAA to release the actual spill amount at the beginning of this, though they KNEW it.

The spill is bad for Dems cuz its bad for Obama who took the most money from BP. So gotta cover that up, you see…
michael2317

“The known facts are out there.”

No they’re not you mendacious shill
Feds have actually used force to take research samples from real scientists out on the Gulf who were doing their own research and testing.
Why? Because they do not want people to know the truth, they want people to know only what they are told.

And you want to tell us the truth is out there? Really?
You are either a liar or a paid shill.
Or just incredibly naive and foolish.

My guess is paid shill. Nobody could be that dumb.
Anonymous

Well if the FDA said its so it must be 100% accurate!!
Anonymous

No, you are wrong, there are plenty of people that dumb.
Anonymous

Just more evidence that Barack Obama is a madman.
Anonymous

Type your comment here.
Props to Raw for there knowledge and there willingness to stand up and fight. I have been reading all of your posts and I have found them to be very straight forward and to the point. Any of there posts can be researched and proven, you just need to open your eyes and look. As a alternative fuel enthuses I no for a fact there are many trolls on these type of blogs and news posts, so be aware who answers a post. One in particular is just a few post above^^^^^.
http://www.theprogressivemind.info/?p=49145 The Progressive Mind » Government withholding key data on Gulf seafood testing, scientists say | Raw Story

[...] Government withholding key data on Gulf seafood testing, scientists say | Raw Story. October 7th, 2010 | Category: Uncategorized | Comments are closed | [...]
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Benway for the Nova Police

The blackface wasn’t too hard, but changing George’s voice so he sounded intelligent, THAT was a technical miracle.
Benway for the Nova Police

Hopefully enough of us will be problems so we get to them before they get to us.
Anonymous

I know not what others may think, but as for me, I will not be eating any seafood from the Gulf.
Anonymous

First, I am not a schill, paid or other wise.

Second, I do not succumb to conspiracies sans evidence.

Third, I’m an engineer and do not form opinions by emotion.

Fourth, The evidence is there.

Fifth, NO ONE was ever physically denied taking samples.

Sixth, I don’t fall for the blatant accusations because they fit with a conspiracy theory.
Anonymous

“Did you happen to read the article? Are you a government troll? Nowhere does it imply no testing of fish is happening. ”

Where have I suggested there was no testing. Troll? Because I don’t get my knickers in a knot screaming “Government conspiracy” at every single thing?

“And it’s not that scientists are moaning they’re not in the decision-making process. They just want to do what all scientists and sound science do — independently validate the testing. ”

Fine, then they can go out to the Gulf, take their samples, and independently verify the government’s numbers. Few organizations routinely give out discrete data, especially when dealing with the quantities they would find in the testing here.

“Oil Spill Panel: White House Blocked Federal Scientists From Releasing Worst-Case Scenario For Gulf Disaster
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/06/oil-spill-panel-white-hou_n_752612.html”

Read the article. Mights, maybes. and preliminary report do not translate into actuality. That is called jumping to a conclusion before the evidence is in. When you read the article you will see several government scientists disagreeing with the accusation.

But facts mean nothing to right wing nuts and conspiricists. You idiots like to make the crap up as you go.
michael2317

So federal agents are not taking samples away from scientists?
Well here’s one example:

http://www.floridaoilspilllaw.com/feds-confiscate-samples-gulf-agent-unmarked-car-video

And here’s another:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85EE7u6ja6g

Here’s an article about an LSU scientist whose samples were taken.

http://www.floridaoilspilllaw.com/feds-confiscate-independent-lsu-scientists-samples-because-project-not-approved-by-bp-others

You still contend it’s not happening?

If the evidence was there, complete and openly available, why would so many scientists say that it is not?
But we should believe you and not them?
Because you claim to be an “engineer?”
MrEthiopian

Common scene says with that with that much oil and chemicals put in the waters to disperse the oil, combined with past shorty / criminal history with the FDA and NOAA, I for one will be abstaining any and all seafood consumption for the next year or so, I refuse to be a Guinea pig for a government that only protects the corporation and cares nothing for the individual. This heinous truth that our government no longer cares anything for the individual was proven when the supreme court changed the law that corporations can directly purchase a governmental official.

America has been sold by the very people trusted to protect America, this entire discussion about the FDA and NOAA not performing their duties correctly and giving the American people shitty reporting that tells us nothing about the safety of the food we are expected to eat, is proof to what I have said.

We as American citizens need to fight back the only effective way we have left, whit our purchasing power, boycott and and all connected with this crime; refuse to buy any seafood from the gulf, till our government and independent examinations can be proven that the food we will eat from the gulf will not end up killing us in 20 years.

I will fight to save America.
http://2010oilspill.gulfcoastrising.com/2010/10/08/seachele420-httpwww-rawstory-comrs201010government-withholding-key-data-gulf-seafood-testing-scientists-oilspill-bpcrud/ seachele420: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/10/government-withholding-key-data-gulf-seafood-testing-scientists/ #oilspill #BPCRUD « News Wire: 2010 Oil Spill

[...] http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/10/government-withholding-key-data-gulf-seafood-testing-scientists/ #oilspill [...]
Anonymous

Do you have any actual reports from a newspaper or journalist? All I see are propaganda sites blathering with videos. Maybe you believe everything you see on youtube but I don’t.

Your third link refers to a letter written to an on-line magazine, “The Scientist”. This is only a letter and NOT from a journalist. The essay is written about a student being told something so now it is second hand. It lacks specificity about times and people. It also falsely accuses private areas of being collusion when they have every right to deny access to their lands. BUT, the essay ends with this note

“Editor’s note – Pete Tuttle, USFWS environmental contaminant specialist and Dept of Interior NRDA coordinator, told The Scientist that he was unaware of any samples being taken or access to study sites being restricted by federal, state, or tribal officials associated with NRDA.”

Read more: Opinion: The oil’s stain on science – The Scientist – Magazine of the Life Sciences http://www.the-scientist.com/templates/trackable/display/news.jsp?type=news&id=57610&o_url=news/display/57610#ixzz11m3ntv30

Either show me some documented case of a “federal Agent” confiscating a marine sample or shut up.
DesertSun59

Look. This is not surprising. No one should think that BP or ANY gov’t official will tell the truth about this issue. We all know – for a fact – that there will be toxic waste taken up into the food chain in the Gulf for DECADES. In addition, it won’t be long before even the people of that region will believe (with the help of Hyper Masculine Jesus [TM]) that there is no toxic waste anywhere to be found anywhere in the Gulf and that the food is perfectly fine to eat.

Then cancers of all types will be their friend for decades, too.
Anonymous

The United States government inoculated people in Alabama and Guatemala with syphilis. Does anyone think they are worried about petroleum in seafood?
michael2317

Oh, Mr. Tuttle is “unaware,” well that’s something you both have in common. At least he’s smart enough to not deny it. You however…

And if you still believe you can count on newspapers and the mainstream media to give you good information, I can see why you are such an establishment toady.

I will not shut up, not for you, you disingenuous hack, nor will I ask you to shut up. We still have free speech here, or at least the pale shadow of it.
Anonymous

Then show me a documented case of a scientist’s sample being confiscated. Instead of giving any evidence you pull out the ad hominem trick and call others “hacks”. If you want to make a claim, then be prepared to back it up.
Anonymous

This is the agency that “negotiates” food recalls, what could be suspect?
Anonymous

Actually, they are more than people. They are people without responsibility to the rest of society. Sociopaths, of a sort, if you will. Corporapaths?
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Hi there mr Fusion… I don’t know your area of engineering, but you should refrain to say that crude oil gravity (or density) , affectionately called “light” vs heavy crude oils have anything in regard to Heavy metals content… There are many cases of relatively high heavy (and toxic) metals concentration in very diverse API gravity crude oils. Another huge misconception is saying that “Gulf” crude is all “light crude”… and thus has few contaminants. I can give you toomany examples that contradict your gross generalizations. A third misconception is sayingthat a “sweet” crude low in sulphur has to have ALSO low metals content. A fourth misconception is to imply that a similarity to Brent in regard to metals content, when its similarity is only in API density or gravity.
Heavy metals content in Crude Oils is governed by the reservoir metalography, that is, what type of metallic compounds are in the rocks that form the reservoir, not the API density of the Crude Oil.

Better check your assumptions, an engineer needs to be precise.

I’ve checked twice with my colleages from Exploration&Production, they say no heavy metal content to API density correlation has ever been observed to be complete and reliable. They sent me to our Biochemical and Molecular Biology division; they underline the fact that “estremely minute amounts of any heavy metals” are indeed a cause or serious concern in regard to serious health effects, so that your mention about them could be misleading.
The only thing on your post that I fully agree, is that I wouldn’t eat any.

Respectfully, Alfred M. Claussen P.E., Offshore Engineering at Mexican Petroleum Institute, for at least 31 years and counting.
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Anonymous

@Genessender was the one who said “I’m not sure about that. Crude oil contains a lot of heavy metals”…Not Mr_Fusion…he was addressing the dispersant…and you said “Better check your assumptions, an engineer needs to be precise. “…your last comment speaks for itself, and does not inspire faith in you, and the disaster in the Gulf does not inspire faith in your colleagues…
Anonymous

Quite the contrary!
There are MANY good engineers that agree with me on the subject of the extremely bad engineering criteria and practices shown by BP… not only on the Deep Horizon disaster, but many others as well, just do a search on Wikipedia to begin to undestand BP’s disastrous practices… They are the really bad engineesr or else their managers impose terrible measures on them, anyway, that company is a disaster-producing giant. No question about that. But to say that ALL engineers are negligent is a completely different matter. Many of us (P.E. or Professional Engineers) have been concerned about the continual BP string of disasters, and entirely disapprove that company. Compared to MOST other similar petroleum companies, BP is the worst of them all. To say that BP engineers ALONE are to be blamed, is quite ignorant because their management could be judged as the worst of the worst among oil companies, but nevertheless there are examples of blatant bad engineering practices in many of BP’s accidents. You could have an idea of the proffesionalism of an engineer by asking him/her its opinion on the BP accidents: an INFORMED engineer would immediately point to their terrible record towards safety and behaviour.

It appears that you did not read carefully and you are misunderstanding: Even when mr_fusion expressed a clear concern for the dispersant, he said SEVERAL misconceptions: 1) “Gulf is light crude and has few contaminants in it…”
Clarification: NOT ALL “light” crudes are low in heavy metals content. You should not generalize. 2) “It is very close to the Standard… (Texas Brent is the Standard)…”
Clarification No.2: There in NO such thing as a “Texas Brent”, period! mr_fusion is inventing a totally new crude type, no less!!! see: Brent is a type related to North Sea light crudes and blends… AND Texas (West Intermediate) or TWI is a Different type, period! He mixed twodifferent light crudes. Please see http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/ask/crude_types1.html for a brief description of crude types, or any other petroleum text, for that matter.
3) The similarity to a “light” crude oil type is only related to its API gravity, but not neccesarily to their heavy metals content. to imply that because the spilled oil is light, it should not have heavy metals is not always valid.
4) “Most Gulf crude is sweet in that it is low in sulfur and metals”…
There is some correlation between Sulphur content and heavier metals content, but not in all crude oils. To say all those aseverations gives the reader the impression that there is little or no problem. But when lighter fractions evaporate, the heavy metals mostly remain in the contaminated fauna digestive tract and tissues.
Even when @genessender was the one more concerned with heavy metals content, the post from mr_fusion post contains misconceptions that point to stablish that heavy metals content of the spilled oil is of lesser concern; and in that regard I strongly disagree. What I believe is that Metals content in the spilled oil and its impact on seafood IS of great concern to all, and needs to be studied in great detail, independently to the other great concern related to the dispersant effects, which are ANOTHER source of concern.
Finally, there is another article telling that oil traces in shrimp were measured by US government on deshelled and deveined shrimp… which would remove the majority of the oil remnants in the shrimp, trowing false results that would lie to the public.
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