Kucinich usually makes an enormous amount of sense, as he does here. I plan to vote, and hope all on this site do, too. And to do the right thing and make even more votes count, give a ride to the polls to your neighbor who may be disabled or housebound.

Nihile Hitler! # ^^= // ——`————-[

@dredeyedick

Hey! Joking! Go out and Vote Democrat, Alternative is Ghastly. Heil! And RALLY to Restore Sanity And – OR FEAR Saturday!!! @TheDailyShow

[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by The Raw Story, Julia Adair, 93.7 WBLK: T-Boogie, Shar G, Tim B and others. Tim B said: RT @RawStory: EXCLUSIVE: Kucinich to liberals: Vote or cede to the ‘forces of nihilism’: http://is.gd/gmiLR [...]

We are in a real predicament in this country at the national level. The corporatist party totally dominates both the Congress and the Presidency. As Johann Hari said so well this week…

“Contrary to the glib stereotype, Americans aren’t stupid, and they can see what is happening: a recent CNN poll found 60 percent of Americans said Obama “has paid more attention to the problems faced by banks and other financial institutions than to the problems faced by middle class Americans.” They’re right. It’s not that they want him to be “more liberal” or “more conservative”: few think in these terms. No. They are asking – is my job more secure? Is my home more secure? Is my healthcare more affordable? And the answer is no, not really. They know the people who caused the crash are fatter than ever, while the people who had nothing to do with it take the pain, and Obama is left calling this farce progress. In the absence of a liberal populism that would have actually fixed these problems, all the oxygen goes to the fake populism of the Tea Party. US politics has ended up as a battle between the mostly corrupt and the entirely corrupt.”

Dennis is one of those who refuse to be a corporate shill. If he says hold your nose a vote… I will.

Right on.

What he needs to be saying is stop voting in Elitist Republicrats Or Demopublicans and “ONLY” Vote In true populists from either party. Those that will uphold the constitution and serve the people not Wall Street or the Globalists!

Kucinich has ideals and principles but in the end he’s become nothing more than a tool of the corporate shills. He was blackmailed into voting for the healthcare bill, and nearly everyone in the Democratic party ignored his calls to impeach Bush and Cheney.

The reality is that both parties have become so corrupted with the lobbying money, lobbyists writing bills, and big business infiltrating all the government agencies that working within the system only reinforces it’s false legitimacy.

The system itself needs to be torn down. The corruption is too endemic.

oops, too late for that speech.

the next two years are going to be nothing but a dog and pony show. the repugs will hold hearings on everything from the pres. birth certificate, to health care. nothing will get done, and the meltdown of america will be hastened….. good, this country will die a death of a thousand cuts, and we will give the chinese the victory without them firing a shot……. dim sum anyone????

but more important is, who lost on dancing last nite?

“The system itself needs to be torn down. The corruption is too endemic.”

You are absolutely right. But, how will this “torn down” thing happen, exactly? I used the word, predicament. That refers to a problem for which there is no apparent solution. We might just have to continue going through the motions, living our lives, being kind to the people around us, tending our gardens, etc. Until… a solution presents itself.

I’m voting, but bending over backwards to compromise with conservatives is not the way to excite your base, especially when those conservatives were voted out for a reason.

Dennis, if you can get me a ride on Air Force One, I’ll vote your way.

Until then I’m sticking by my principles.

Drag out Dennis when they want Liberals to vote then tell him to get lost when he tries to propose something. He lost me when caved in on health care.

As near as I can tell he is about the only one left with an ounce of integrity

Unfortunately the Nihilists have been formally empowered since 9/11. I remain highly skeptical that either party can or wants to dislodge them.

Isn’t this what bush told his supporters, reelect me or the devils will take over? And isn’t this why washington is filled with lack luster politicians who continually ignore those who voted for them? Oh you must vote for me even though I am the same musty old bread that has been around for years! In two short years democrats have gone from the party of hope and change to the party of hey it could be worse. This liberal does not support either party and until politicians are actually held accountable for their actions we are all going to be chocking down the same old musty bread. So I will not be voting this november and until democrats start supporting liberals I will continue not to vote for them.

One of the worst things are about to happen the re installation of the Anti American Racist Nazi party. The party of hate and Fear as these White Trailer Trash COWARDS prepare to raid the Treasury and devastate America even more< I am packing my bags and have picked three countries to live in.
These SScum Bag Pukes called republicans who have NOTHING but the interst of CORPORATE America at heart care NOTHING about this Country, lets look at the facts a Supreme Court Corporate approved president, a Anti AMerican Racist Nazi COWARD and TRAITOR vp Gutless,Spineless cheney, a LYING Supreme Court Justice that has purposely manipulate the Judicial Docit to SUPPORT the iInterset of Anti American Corporations and FOREIGN Corporations into American politics. The FAILURE of the Scummy right to hold its Lying,Fear and Hate Mongering party accountable on any number of issues to include the Theft of the National Treasury. The Moral decay of said party to be only applied to everyone else but these SLIM Ball Cock bites.
Under the Anti American republicans we hasve been reduced to THIRD World status, enslaved to China for debt, American infastruture repair reduced to nothing, Public transportation reduced to nothing, the best f4reight rail system in the world but these Low Life LOSERS are on bended knees and bowed heads to the Chinese on passenger rail and total rail transportation.

No President (haha, ELECTED, not APPOINTED) Obama, and the Dems’ are fightimg 12+ years of Selling America out, and only a Ill informed MORON would expect such a big problem to be fixed overnight, but then again these IDIOTS on the right live in a fantasy world of meme, and intant gradification and have a COWARDLY leadership that has Never done anything for America except STEAL, and Curse those that have done anything to make this Country great.

Let us not forget his joyride with Obama on Air force One just before he “changed” his mind and sold out. Do you think they bribed him with American Wagyu Hip Sirloin (cooked very rare), 1998 Chateau Rayas Châteauneuf-du-Pape, Remy Martin Cognac Louis XIII and Romeo y Julieta Havana cigars or did they just threaten him?

I think we need a revolution, and the way to do it is with our money or a general strike. Boycott the corporations who contribute to either party. If they don’t have income, they’ll fold eventually. We need a new construct, both politically, and economically. Corporations that profit share with their employees, co-ops and employee owned businesses are the only economic models that don’t exploit human beings. What we have now is a system of human farming, where the elite farm owners – corporations and their executives, politicians and the very wealthy are farming human beings for profit – exploiting the majority for their labor, giving us the illusion that we have democracy and freedom, when we really don’t have any freedom, opportunity, individuality, stability or security.

Sadly, I agree.

That NYTimes prediction on Kucinich’s re-election has him getting 57% of the vote. I live in his district and can say with some confidence that Kucinich is unlikely to win by such a large margin this time around and I am not sure this article is correct to say his seat is “in no danger.” There is a large amount of vocal disconent with Kucinich in OH-10.

Another note — Ohio will lose a Congressional seat in 2012 and OH-10 and two adjacent Dem-leaning districts will be combined into just two districts for the 2012 election. Regardless of the outcome of these 2010 elections, in 2012 NE Ohio will have two Dem Congressmen and that other seat will belong to another state.

That NYTimes prediction on Kucinich’s re-election has him getting 57% of the vote. I live in his district and can say with some confidence that Kucinich is unlikely to win by such a large margin this time around. I am not so sure this article is correct to say his seat is “in no danger.” There is a large amount of vocal disconent with Kucinich in OH-10 and Kucinich probably gets by with a single-digit margin.

Another note — Ohio will lose a Congressional seat in 2012 and OH-10 and two adjacent Dem-leaning districts will be combined into just two districts for the 2012 election. Regardless of the outcome of these 2010 elections, in 2012 NE Ohio will have two Dem Congressmen and that other seat will belong to another state.

George Carlin was right, we do these stupid elections so it appears we the people are electing others to run our government and this country, when in actuality, the corporations run this shit hole. Going to the polls is only a mind thing that makes “feel” like we have the power. We don’t!

“I think we need a revolution, and the way to do it is with our money or a general strike.”

Harder to do if you are broke and unemployed. Maybe that’s the rationale behind the recent collapse of the economy. Cheers…

As I see it we have the choice to vote for ineffective friends or cede the election to very effective enemies. The choice is quite simple really.

That Hari piece is well worth a read. Succinct defense for the left who will vote outside Democrat party lines.

“They are asking – is my job more secure? Is my home more secure? Is my healthcare more affordable? And the answer is no, not really.”

Well, in my own case I no longer have a job. I was forced into early retirement – but that happened in January of last year, a couple of weeks before Obama was sworn into office. I blame the Republicans for that one. My home is nearly paid for so I feel secure there. Obama subsidized my COBRA making my healthcare quite affordable for 18 months. The health care bill included the “Early Retirement Reinsurance Program” which subsidizes employers who continue providing health insurance to early retirees like myself. As a result I can afford to continue buying health care coverage. Otherwise I would have been faced with an unaffordable $2400 a month premium. So my answer would have to be an unqualified YES.

To vote or not is an easy decision for me.

I’ll say this again. I believe most Americans are more like Dennis Kucinich and Ron Paul.
Middle of the road folks that want the Government to get the fuck out of our lives, stop perpetuating wars, quit robbing us of our freedoms, labors, and private property, Be fiscally responsible.
We all have to abide by these concepts in our personal lives, so why do we put up with and continue to elect sycophants that do nothing more than fill their pockets with the fruits of our labor.
Repubs are Nationalist and cowtow to Corporate interest, especially the Military Industrial Banking Pharma Cabal… Democrats are Socialist that believe the State is the final authority and that they no better how to spend your $$$. Add the 2 and you get a Fascist form of Government.
America needs to stop electing by the Party Paradigm, and refuse to be played by the Establishment Hacks in DC.
These people are hoodwinking everyone and laughing all the way to the bank.
Explain how a SERVANT for the People becomes a fucking multi-millionare, while the people he/she is supposed to SERVE goes bankrupt, becomes impoverished, and is basically a lifelong slave to the System? This is not a Government for and by the People,This is a sham that uses hatred and Propaganda to keep the masses off balance.
Americans by nature are an independent people, and I believe Dennis and Ron are really Independent/Libertarians and use the Fascist Cloke because they would otherwise have no chance at getting elected.

Well put Dennis

Guess the forces of nihilism have already beaten some.

I’ll surrender before I vote and get blood on my hands. ‘Not voting’ is sometimes the only choice my state gives me.

Revolution? Like in France? You really think Americans are up for that? No way. It will have to get a lot worse first.

Perhaps a better solution would be for more of us to get involved politically. Show up at your local Democratic or Republican Party office and ask how you can help. You would be surprised at how few people do that and how much influence you might have at least at the local level. If enough of us infiltrated our parties we might be able to make some real changes without resorting to riots in the streets.

That was very well put friend, thank you for making me smile before my morning cup of coffee.

Nihilism is the schism in the earthly cosmic fabric of spacetime that we currently inhabit. Who are they kidding?

[...] Raw Story: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/10/kucinich-liberals-vote-cede-forces-nihilism/ [...]

Well put. But I would disagree with your take on dems. If you look at the best countries to live in, and the least corrupt, they are always the more socialized countries. I think the Dems want us to catch up to Europe and Scandinavia. Come up to the level of putting people before anything else.

Chine builds a 280 mph train and we argue about whether or not to live in the 4th century

Why wasnt Dennis president in 2004?

Actually it’s the forces of realism and truth that have woken many up to the distortion of the system. In many ways “Force” is the only thing left, but westerners are too apathetic and too enchanted with the Ipad/Ipod 4 and all the other shiny useless rubbish served up to them on the plate of distraction to realize most of what they truly cherish has already been taken away. Our only option is to fire the entire government and start again with no political parties and no career politicians, but we all know this isn’t going to happen. So instead those of us who are intelligent and actually care, look at this sorry state of affairs with buffoons on both sides and we shake our heads and walk away. Dennis is a good guy for the most part, but even he was privy to the baseless attacks from within his own party and within the media when he was running for president. Now it seems he’s been told by the party to try and wrangle the dems and liberals that are disenchanted, back into the pen. The problem is when u reach a certain level of disenchantment you usually stop succumbing to group think which is the fire that runs the engine of political parties and ideological labels like “liberal/conservative”. The left/right paradigm is the noose tied around this country’s neck. Dennis knows this, so when he says “get out there and vote democrat” it makes him look like either a fool or a man, “doing what he’s told”. Either way it doesn’t enchant the disenchanted, or inspire those influenced by nihilism, it instead makes them turn and run.

But if it’s torn down by crazy republicons, then the power vacuum will quickly be filled by the plutocrats, which is exactly the plan that the plutocrats have in mind.

So when you advocate not voting so the system collapses, you are advocating that we accept Plutocracy. We don’t, so the sane amongst us will vote to keep the republicons out of office.

That’s rather nihilistic.

BIG WORD. DUMB IT DOWN A BIT DENNIS.

One the one hand you’re so right. On the other hand that’s pretty left of you. Here is the problem with the logic. I am totally into the get the government out of my pot supply part of it. But I am not alone in totally knowing if left to their own devices those Randian economic purists with their ideals of Capitalism will rape the living crap out of me and everyone else for the last ten cents and I don’t trust anyone enough to not have some cops minding the store, least of all the cops.

So I don’t buy it. Most of the big time slavers have been private industrialists, at least over here on this end of the time scale.

I love your purist ideal, and I am so with you in spirit, but I am way to jaded to buy into it, and for good reason.

The ideal of a Republic thus stands or falls on the character, and strength of it’s Senate.

History is a bitch. So are the people I run into at the bank.

I am all for piece, but I am not fool enough to think there aren’t and haven’t always been countless millions banking on the fall of this republic. Count on it. We’re hated for lots of reasons, the least of which is our armies marching.

Dennis is absolutely right. While the Dems are a far cry from the perfect party, as far as Progressive issues, they are clearly the better of the two choices. By a long shot.

We are at a crossroads. This is 1933 Germany. Just listen to the increasingly bold insanity on the part of the extreme rightwing. They have all crawled out from under their rocks. All the suppressed hatred now displayed openly for the world to see. The masochistic suicidalism of a party that would rather see the country and even life on earth go down than to compromise on their crazy agenda. Unthinking lemmings marching ever so militantly over the cliff, promising to pull us all down with them.

We saw what they do when they have full control. Eight years of Bush obliterated the financial surplus the nation enjoyed under Clinton (while the fascists impeached the most popular president in recent memory because he dared to lie to them on national circus TV about something he did in his personal life). People are now predicting the fall of the United States. Sure didn’t take the Repubs long.

Much as they throw around the “patriotic” label I don’t think these people have ever loved the US. No, they are still stuck in the civil war. They are still confederates, insane with rage that their slaves were forcibly removed from them. You can see it in all their anti-governmentism. In their “states rightism” In their insistance that “This is NOT a democracy!!!” (google those words). It’s not government per se that they object to, because they are more than willing to fashion their own banana republic, it’s the United States government. The same holds true for the GOP’s use of the “Christian” label. That’s just it, they are using it.

The modern Republican party has become a grotesque caricature, the party of elite ultra rich white-rednecks. People seriously need to wake up and look whats happening to their country. Get their heads out of their idealogical backsides and work with the best we have at the moment rather than stubbornly sitting on their hands and holding their breath. Then, after the election work hard on either fixing the Democratic party or create a new one. But AFTER the election. It’s a bit late to start now.

How many Chinese people percentage wise do you and I think will be riding that train?

The disparity of wealth and social justice in China makes us look like the garden of… The Vale of Cashmere?

China is a bubble, propped up by a one party state, on the backs of the huns. Period. Natural resources? Where? Australia haha. We could build a 280 mph train from LA to San Fran, in fact I kinda voted on it.

Sadly it was a stupid idea. I would use it 2 times a year maybe 4 and it’s cheaper to just fly. Of course we could make a really slow solar train, then I could sleep all the way there. What’s your point?

Do you have any idea how much energy is required to levitate trains and toss them down magnetic rails so rich people can shave 2 hours off a commute? Who do you think rides these things?

I’m late I have booked passage on the QE2.

I had to look at that icon twice! WIN.

I’m migrating to your planet.

Well, Belle. We must be careful when we talk about a Revolution though. I mean no one wants hot American on America action. We must look at this as a global problem because it is.

Now if there is to be a revolution of human beings who want to live well and not sit by while others do not–which is the only true pure cause–then we must revolt against the forces which prevent this from happening.

I only have two hands which let me count to 9. That’s to short of a list to cover everything.

Democracy’s number one enemy is all other forms of rule which allow one person to say we all do this and then it happens. You get thirty years of people bitching before any half assed corrupt piece of crap make work project can start as a bill in congress.

I for one do not believe in beneficent dictators. Someone is always in a dungeon being offered up to some ancient god or party favor.

I’m all up for change I just haven’t had anyone offer up a good alternative, other than lopping off heads.

First of all Kucinich, most Americans have no idea what nihilism is. You would have to explain it. And evidently out of anger, some are so dumb they would vote against their own interests. Nihilism is what the GOP is all about. They daily extend the belief that traditional values are useless and that an existence is useless. They consider all but the wealthy to be of no value to society. Except to serve those with the money and consequently the authority to rule the rest of us. All of the policies they revere are based on this fact.

They want to dismantle any program that does not directly benefit the wealthy. Any social net that saves lives and hopes of the poor or middle class are worthless to them. Even though a healthy, educated population makes for a civilized society.

This last administration under Bush cost us everything. Over 5 million manufacturing jobs, the loss of companies paid to go overseas, the loss of 700,000 jobs a month during Bush last month in office. They had 8 years to do something and did nothing. With all the de-regulation that went on they resent even the modest regulations that have now been put in place. They want to tear it all down again. They want to reverse the Wall Street regulations. They want unfettered business. Well we had that, and that was what brought us down.

Right now the Europeans are doing something we should be doing. Strictly regulating hedge funds. Capping the overblown salaries of heads of corporations. And they have had for years the most strict rules and inspection of the safety and drilling practices of oil companies in the world. What we have is too little and too late. And yet the GOP keeps saying “the government should get off the backs of business.” If I may point out, we did that. And look at the result.

The wealthy do not take public transportation, they take a limousine. They don’t have to use public airports if they don’t want to, they can use a private jet. They don’t care if we have decent schools, their kids go to private schools. They don’t rent, they own. And almost never face foreclosure because they rarely have a mortgage. They don’t worry about feeding a family. They have the best and healthiest foods. And the kind of good diets that don’t cause obesity. They have the tops in medical care because they can afford to use the best. Most of us cannot do the same.

But the one thing they cannot buy, they have forgotten. A planet that is unpolluted. A planet that leaves enough room to live and breathe. They and their children still have to live here too. And all the money in the world cannot save the rich at the expense of everyone and everything else. So down the line somewhere, where they do not look, it waits for them too.

This is and has been the nastiest time in this country. The level just plain intelligence in these candidates has never been worse. And the level of the same, in some of the brain dead voters, stands alone in it’s lack of reason and clear thought. If anyone wants to vote these nuts and the GOP back into office, go ahead. And see just how bad things are come next election. See how the last years of the Bush era will be re-born again with a theocratic, fascist, oligarchy.

Go to Costa Rica…
It’s got the most stable and responsive Democracy in the western hemisphere. Also has intelligent, educated, friendly people and beautiful topography, great food and very affordable.
As they say there it’s “Pura Vida”…Pure Life:
http://www.youtube.com/user/AntAtoll#p/f/27/RMQ2aakdD6g

Interesting perspective…
So a whole bunch of whack jobs will get elected and then what? Use the same system of government that the Ds now control, to bring about changes THEY want?
Ah-huh…
I like Kucinich, but ‘fear’ doesn’t really motivate Progressive voters anymore.

Firstly, if the OTHER GUY, is so powerful that they can magically impose extremist and unpopular legislation, then that’s not saying much about Progressives when their shitty parties get elected now, does it? It’s not like Progressive legislation is extremist or unpopular unless your the OTHER GUY.
Secondly — as a longtime political observer, these Repukes ain’t anymore ridiculous than the whack jobs from the mid-term Reagan era of the 80s or the Newt Contract nut bars from the 90s.
Thirdly — there are nut bars running as Ds and voting for a D doesn’t mean your going to get a Progressive…if anything you’re going to get someone who is more than willing to go along with the “megalomaniacal neoconservatives”, if they see it in as their best interests…just like they have been doing for the last three decades.
Fourthly — the better strategy is to let the tea baggers win and then they can destroy the GOP in 2012 every time they open their mouths. Moreover, the GOP will try to ‘manage’ them and they will resist the Establishment and say even more stupid shit.
Sorry Dennis — but the sky isn’t going to fall and this lot isn’t much different than the “megalomaniacal neoconservatives” that ran the country between 2000 and 2008 and to many Progressive voters, it seems they still are running the country.

I live a day to day life that is more difficult than a lot of people in my low income range.

I don’t subscribe to the idea that the “left/right paradigm” is all a game. There is obvious corruption on both sides of the aisle, but there is more at stake in this election cycle. I don’t want to live in a country where wailing, xenophobic Christian conservatives get to decide the law for me, and that’s what’s at stake this election cycle. The problems with the system do need to be handled, but in the course of governance. In an election season, especially one this cancerous with perceptions of morality, other things are at stake, and liberal nihilism is going to empower that cancer.

Bravo, sir, and a salute to your courage.

Attitude is everything, and yours rocks.

How horrifyingly reasonable!

The Democratic Party has screwed me over too long with false promises of a progressive agenda. Until the system completely crashes, it can’t get better. Yes it will get ugly.

Burn baby, Burn

you don’t even lean one way or the other? …not voting in this election is voting republican to your own detriment.

Voting for the lesser of two evils, dosen’t work anymore.
If Obama on delivered on ANY of his promises or if the Dems had done something for the average joe in this country, the Dems would not be in this position.
But neither of you delivered, so watch from the side lines for two years as this group of crazies screws everyone but the very rich.
Learn from your mistakes.

…so you are going to let the republicans win ….. again…..?

Visit http://www.factcheck.org/

I assume from your post with the third grade grammar, that you think Obama has NOT delivered on his campaign promises, although it is difficult to figure out what you’re actually trying to argue.

That is just another Fox “News” fabrication.

He has in fact “delivered” most of them and he is far from finished yet.
Do morons like you really think McCain would have done a good job?
Even half way as good as Obama?
If so, you’re nuts.

What he needs to be saying is stop voting in Elitist Republicrats Or Demopublicans and “ONLY” Vote In true populists from either party. Those that will uphold the constitution and serve the people not Wall Street or the Globalists! Most people know by now the 2-Party System is pretty much a hoax and at best is just two sides of one coin. I agree with Chomsky when he says we have a 1-Party System and the only people to win a Presidential Election are those who have been propped up by the Corporate Industrial Complex. This should be a No-Brainer as who “NOT” to Vote For! If your money is coming from the Big Banks, The Mega Lobbyists, The Corporate Industrial Complex & The Globalists…then common sense tells you this is where their loyalty will be. Have we not figured that much out yet? People, please get a clue.

You would have loved Watts in the sixties.

Infilitration of our own party will not help – unless of course you have a very large checkbook…then they might invite you to tea.

Let the Tea Baggers win?

You must be a younger man because I cannot afford another decade like the last one, only with waaaaaaaaaaaaaay more Jesus.

I really don’t understand this “there’s no difference between the parties” attitude.

Corruption is not just economic.

They just threatened him, he’s a vegan.

Both Parties’ Alliances lie elsewhere and not with the people of this country who built it and love it. We are being destroyed from within and there is absolutely nothing sadder.

Exactly.

–noun
1.
total rejection of established laws and institutions.
2.
anarchy, terrorism, or other revolutionary activity.
3.
total and absolute destructiveness, esp. toward the world at large and including oneself: the power-mad nihilism that marked Hitler’s last years.
4.
Philosophy .
a.
an extreme form of skepticism: the denial of all real existence or the possibility of an objective basis for truth.
b.
nothingness or nonexistence.
5.
( sometimes initial capital letter ) the principles of a Russian revolutionary group, active in the latter half of the 19th century, holding that existing social and political institutions must be destroyed in order to clear the way for a new state of society and employing extreme measures, including terrorism and assassination.
6.
annihilation of the self, or the individual consciousness, esp. as an aspect of mystical experience.

From Rob Brezney:

In the late 1990s, environmental activist Julia Butterfly Hill spent two years living in a redwood tree she named “Luna.” Her goal was to save it from being cut down by a logging company.

She succeeded both literally and mythically. Luna was spared from death, as was a surrounding three-acre swath of trees. Hill became an inspiring symbol of artful, compassionate protest.

Later she told Benjamin Tong in the DVD The Taoist and the Activist: “So often activism is based on what we are against, what we don’t like, what we don’t want. And yet we manifest what we focus on. And so we are manifesting yet ever more of what we don’t want, what we don’t like, what we want to change. So for me, activism is about a spiritual practice as a way of life. And I realized I didn’t climb the tree because I was angry at the corporations and the government; I climbed the tree because when I fell in love with the redwoods, I fell in love with the world. So it is my feeling of ‘connection’ that drives me, instead of my anger and feelings of being disconnected.”

History shows that every time we try to punish the democrats the country Government moves farther to the right and that’s why we should vote. Please read this before you hand it over to the reich extremists. Change takes time people! Historically we have to take responsibility for not acting in the past.http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/10/15-7

That’s not the point, I believe, the poster is trying to make. I think dgenz’ there means: why should one have to choose between being being robbed or … being beaten and robbed.
If /when Bush did many of the exact same things Obama has done people on the left were, with good reason, freakin out. Obama does those same things and many of those same people now defend it.

Wow. Ok. What he said.

You know I agree basically.
But see, we can walk away from ‘it’ but ‘it’ will sure as hell not walk away from us.

I love to vote. I love going to my precinct and watching the public participation. I wish more people did.Please be sure to vote.

That’s what I think about voting Democrat, too. So what’s the big diff?

i took me two years to find a suitable avatar….=)

We do need to learn from our mistakes. It would be a mistake to let history repeat. The reason why the Supreme Court favors the Corporations is because of people giving up or being apathetic. We need to look back to see how we got to this point. Please read this; http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/10/15-7

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/10/15-7

Methinks perhaps a good start would be to just, as much as possible, quit participating.

I mean more economically than politically.

Quit using bank cards (and hey banks too) stop buying stoopit’shit. Maybe, if ya can, have gardens. Don’t get your license renewed. Quit being a cop or of you are one quit busting people for stupid shit like not having insurance. Go to court for EVERYTHING and use jury nullification when applicable.

I mean I could go on and we can argue the efficacy of some of these things but the problem is, is that everyone just goes along with everything.

They can put a few million in jail I suppose, but they can’t lock up 100 million. We are never taught that, before the New Deal and the ensuing reforms, there were HUGE strikes that almost completely shut down whole cities. That’s why FDR felt he had to save the ruling class by clamping down on their rapacity.

Please take a look at how we’ve gotten to this point. http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/10/15-7

There should be a law requiring people to vote. It should be compulsory like paying taxes. You don’t have to vote for anyone, but it should be a requirement to at least show up, sign the book and vote. You can vote “none of the above” but you must show up.

if this was the case, democrats would probably have a permanent majority.

Great post! Please read and pass along. http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/10/15-7

So true, we must not give up! Please read and pass on http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/10/15-7

Here’s how it got to this point. Please read http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/10/15-7

Please read this http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/10/15-7

The Republican party nearly destroyed organized labor, initiated all unprovoked wars of aggression waged since World War II in the interest of merchants of death parading as “the Defense establishment”, propelled the USA into the gutter of international relations by advocating and practicing atrocities, mass murder, torture, rendition and assorted crimes against humanity.

Faced with such depravity, only a politically atrophied, socially inert and ethically challenged electorate can vote for Republicans in order to punish the Democrats for their complicity in perpetuating the Republican’s fascist agenda.

In fact, the issues framed by the candidates have absolutely no relevance in the present economic and political context.

The USA is bankrupt politically and economically.

None of the international banksters nor any of their political puppets have the power or the inclination to prevent the coming disintegration of the system.

At any rate, “elections” have long ago lost their original meaning and intent through the U.S.A.’s pervasive voting machine and election rigging scandals.

Voting for Democrats at least stalls the inevitable.

This is how we got to this mess; http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/10/15-7

voting or not voting is not enough. http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/10/15-7

Your frustration is completely justified but please read http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/10/15-7

Your points are justified but please take a quick look at this http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/10/15-7

Much like the knee jerk conservative response of “love it or leave it”, the so called response to dgenzle and others is “would you be happy with _” . The scariest difference between the 2 parties is in the social arena and we all know what these are, but with what little say I have..I do value my right to vote. There are many people who are sick and tired of having to vote a straight ticket of Democrats because of this hemmed in system, as sick and twisted as the Republicans are to me ( in almost every respect ) it sickens me to vote for a Party no matter who runs on the ballot. I can’t debate reality, but has this what it comes down to…the right wing assholes vote GOP and everyone else tries to prod the Democrats to lead Progressively? I wish Kucinich, Grayson, Brown etc had more clout instead of the slick tv savy candidates who look and talk the part but cave to every special interest that knocks on the door.

We Americans think that voting or not voting is enough, pls read how we got to this point. http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/10/15-7

We have to take a closer look at how we got to this point. http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/10/15-7

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/10/15-7

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/10/15-7

please take a look at this http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/10/15-7

Much of Democracy is already gone but we need to fight to bring it back. http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/10/15-7

I disagree. Making people vote won’t work. How is it going to be enforced and who’s going to do the enforcing? Requiring people to do anything, especially participate in government, makes them un-free. By not voting, people ARE making a choice, and we get what we deserve.

If anything, I think the consequences should be made more starkly and immediately realized. If a majority do not vote, that particular office is simply eliminated until the next vote. If only a minority vote in the presidential election, for example, there IS no president. A district doesn’t vote, it gets no representation.

We the people need to admit that we are really into instant gratification, and we really need to take a quick look at how we got here. http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/10/15-7

We have lost much of our democracy bit by bit over time and we have to fight for it. please read and pass along. http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/10/15-7

Great points!! http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/10/15-7

Good to see some level headed people here! http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/10/15-7

Fucking sad but true.
I’ve become convinced that the Democratic party is really here to shoulder the herculean task, which they accomplish with aplomb I might add, of actually making the republican party look good or at least acceptable.

You can post this link one time…Thanks, Raw Moderators

I’m in. It would balance the responsibility of the social contact a bit. Anarchy through apathy. :)

Einstein’s definition of insanity fits voting perfectly!

“Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.”

Voting only changes the prick that fucks us.

Any way you slice it, when 51% of the people can take away the rights of the other 49% who’s really free in a democracy?

Through the centuries we have outgrown this entire social system but we have no choice but to be subjugated by it because apparently there are STILL a whole lot of you people who believe tossing the ball back and forth between the Dems and Repubes every couple of years is going to, at some point, change something for the better, lol….

Look in America’s rear view mirror, our freedom, education, standard of living, quality of food, state of the family, it’s all gone one way, DOWN HILL FAST.

All that voting, and look at how far we’ve come… Oh please.

So let me get this straight: progressives are supposed to vote for Democrats, despite the D’s refusal to do anything to advance any progressive causes, because the Republicans are worse? Pay no attention to the lack of economic recovery, the lack of any movement on gay issues, the lack of a public option, the lack of withdrawal from Afghanistan, the lack of prosecution of Bush era war criminals, the lack of transparency in the Executive Branch, the lack of Constitution-defined rights, the lack of any sort of admission that these concerns are important from the White House.

Put another way, we are supposed to vote for a political party that secretly curries favor with the wealthy and corporations in order to prevent a takeover from a political party that overtly curries favor with the wealthy and corporations.

Gimme a break.

You really think you and the politicians run this country? You’re daydreaming!

Too bad that not one Democrat in office cares about weather the Rethugs are flipping our votes, discouraging voters, or outright stealing elections. This means you Senator Durbin, when I asked for you to help the Democratic voters in DuPage County, because the DuPage Rethugs are stealing every election. You just looked down, and said, “It’s time to move on.” Move on to what? More stolen elections?

The Federalist Society will overtake the Supreme Court completely if we sit by and allow the reich wingers to take over. We must fight for a democracy!!!!!!!http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2007/11/15/the-federalist-society-will-be-partying-like-rock-stars/

This is a tough decision for me. I was going to sit this one out, BUT because Dennis is one of the few Dems I respect anymore, and because he’s got the guts to call em as he sees em, I think I’m going to vote.
Just because he’s asking, just because he’s the kind of man he is… and because he’s right, our choices suck, but they’re a LOT better than the alternative.

Decade like the last one…?

You must be young if you forgot Reagan and creepy Jesus goons like James ‘fuck the forests coz Jesus is coming’ Watts? Ralph Reed? Falwell’s Moral Majority?
You also must be young if you forgot that even a scumbag like Gore originally modeled himself as a Pro-Life soft evangelical hypocrite with his little Nazi wife breaking bread with the Holy Rollers and their obsession ‘Satanic’ lyrics? Remember the pandering?
That’s right….decades of waaaaaaay more Jesus, young fella, that Democrats LOVED to either copy or used in order to play the ‘fear’ card.
These pricks are done just like most of those western Team B fronts.

You got fooled and I didn’t.

This man was not “gelded” and knows how to speak up. Thank God.

vote democrat just because.. hmmmm i like it. News flash.. .People arent motivated by Obama because they realize the dems are just as bad as the repugs.

“We can get out there and make our voices heard, or we can let the forces of nihilism take over, or we can let diebold do as it will.”

Vote Diebold. Diebold for prez.

Kucinich is right and it’s a very scary proposition. We need to vote and keep our Country safe from the right wing nut jobs.

Vote Democratic or reslugliklan whores will sell the entire country to foreign criminals.

Good summary. But may I add the endless Democratic war funding, HR 1553, the pathetic, conformist, thoughtless, and dangerous Zionist ass kissing war resolution against Iran and the President’s reauthorization of the the “Patriot” Act.

I can’t forget or forgive these hypocritical betrayals.

I plan to vote Green and to never vote Democratic again. They have lost my vote forever whatever the consequences.

Stop living in fear…The “lessor of two evils” is a ploy to suck you into the system where there is no hope of real change. Win or loose, christian corporate war criminals will be “representing” you… because you “consented” aka voted. Hows that been working out for you so far?

The sooner the better. The sooner Americans wake up to the loss of their country, almost from it’s inception, and to the realization that the USA is the most destructive force on Earth, the better chance that we will actually act with common sense, and demand a new Constitution, and the end of Representative government and the end of the Republicrats!

(however, i will def. vote for the prog dems who act like they might do something, because I like to hedge my bets! I’m pragmatic!)

Oh, come on . . . McCain’s been saying the same thing for the last three hundred and thirty seven years.

I agree just like a heroin addict this country needs to hit rock bottom to realize it needs help

Voting doesnt work.

But it does keep the stupid people busy arguing among themselves while the rich rob them blind.

Stop being so naive. It was Clinton who sold out to the investment bankers by repealing Glass Steagall, and it was the Progressive Caucus leader Conyers who refused to indict Bu$hco for war crimes. The Dems are complicit.Learn to live collectively, sustainably, and quit counting on ‘representatives’ to save us when we can’t even save ourselves.

You remind me that there are liberals that can be just as ignorant as conservatives. And there are a lot of you who comment in here. First of all, Obama is not running for office. I don’t know who you listen to or what you read but to make a comment like this one goes to show you really are not paying attention. And you obviously don’t listen to Kucinich.

I challenge you that you don’t know your history or even recent history… like the eight years before Obama took office. You obviously are naive at how politics work as imperfect as it is. I can bet you are clueless of the changes whether imperfect or not achieved by Obama in just under two years under the kind of hostile environment he has faced with the media, Republican obstructionism, and the manufactured tea party hysteria. You have little understanding of the magnitude of what was handed to Obama. Yes, I have reason to be angry with Obama and the Democrat Party for a lot of reasons. But there are also obvious reasons to be thankful they are in power and not the other way around.

But the most ignorant comments I hear from the ideological left is that there is no difference between the parties. Are you kidding me?. Do you realize how powerful the the Supreme Court Justices are? Do you know about the Citizens United ruling? Are you aware of who is funding the tea party? Are you aware of the real Republican/tea party platform that is being funded by the corporate oligarchies? Do understand Mussolini’s definition of Fascism? Do you understand about not giving up because you didn’t get your “rose garden?”

Peaceloveunderstanding seems a bit hypocritical especially the understanding part. You don’t know everything. Grow up. Why don’t you read what Kucinich has to say again. He is a hell of a lot smarter than you.

You see that is the kind of ignorance from the left that makes you part of the problem. You young people think you got it all figured out but in fact you are lazy in your conclusions and are clueless in your knowledge of history or the political process. Guess what? The rich have always ruled and always will. But not all the rich want to steal from you. There are rich people that want to make it better for you. In fact they create legislation that takes money from them and invests in you. You see, FDR was a rich man but is actions helped create the strongest middle class in history. Nancy Pelosi is rich but she put through strong House legislation for the people that is clearly a far difference from the other party.

To drop out and not fight for what you believe in only to watch the other party get back in control with their extremist candidates only to see them take this country to a darker place can only put you as part of the blame. Don’t take your freedom for granted. The other side likes to talk a lot about freedom but their actions speak a another whole truth. You have a responsibility as a citizen to uphold the Democracy that was given by our Founding Fathers.

The Dems had a big majority. They could have passed actual progressive legislation. But they pissed it all away. Progressive positions were immediately traded away to appease Republican naysayers who never voted with the Democrats anyway. Wall Street banksters were given light slaps on the wrist, no criminal investigations, and they were alllowed to paper over the trillions of dollars in toxic assets that are still out there, preventing our economic recovery. Despite what appeared to be a mandate in 2006 to reform the corruption of the Bush crime gang, Pelosi immediately declared impeachment to be “off the table”, and Obama gave us his “looking forward not backward” bullshit. And yes, we are fully aware of how powerful the Supreme Court is, in addition to the fact that there are many signs that Elena Kagan will vote with the corporatists more often than not.

We didn’t get our “rose garden”, it’s true. Come to think of it, we didn’t get a goddamn thing but empty promises and outright lies. Oh yeah, and a mandate to buy overpriced shitty health insurance from the very same corporations that Obama railed against as part of the problem.

This meme that liberals don’t know how good we have it, that we should all shut up and vote Democratic en masse like our conservative counterparts is not only monumentally arrogant, but it’s also very insulting of our intelligence. We are NOT the group that mindlessly follows what we are told to do by those in power. Obama and the rest of the Democratic leadership can try to tell us all they want that we’re eating steak, but we’re not going to smile and believe them when we know it’s a turd instead.

Oh and one more thing-refusing to investigate and prosecute potential war crimes to the fullest extent of the law makes all those who refuse complicit in those very same war crimes. Obama and his Kumbaya moment with Condi Rice recently, as well as the lack of enthusiasm from the Justice Department in investigating the torturers make the Democratic “leadership” of our government accessories to War Crimes. Now there’s a reason to pull the lever for Democrats!

The Myth and a brief history lesson;http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/10/15-7

You may want to take another look; http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/10/15-7

Take a look at what happens when we try to punish the system instead of trying to change it; http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/10/15-7

Clinton is admitting that he made mistakes and if you take a closer look you will see how we got to this point. http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/10/15-7

Clinton is admitting that he made mistakes and if you take a closer look you will see how we got to this point. http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/10/15-7

Consider and try to understand this http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/10/15-7

Consider and try to understand this http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/10/15-7

please pass this along http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/10/15-7

You are spot on! http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/10/15-7

There’s a short bit of history that you may want to considerhttp://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/10/15-7

You are absolutely right!

The one thing you can give the conservative base credit for is their absolute loyalty and commitment to their cause. It’s unfortunate that the same cannot be said of the progressive base’s commitment to their cause. If things don’t change or move forward fast enough for progressives, or they become disappointed or disillusioned in any way, shape or form, instead of regrouping and continuing to stand up and fight with all their might for what they believe in, the progressive base invariably ends up turning on its own and then just gives up and concedes to the conservatives. IMO, this is one of the major reasons our nation is in such terrible shape today–the dem/progressive base is not committed enough to fight for the success of the progressive agenda over the long term.

How else can one explain that in less than two years since obama was inaugurated (he hasn’t even been in office for half of his first term), and regardless of the terribly damaging consequences that resulted due to the eight years of the bush regime, or the damaging repub obstructionism within the last two years, the progressive base are just going to give the repubs a pass by allowing them to regain their power and control over our nation without putting up even so much as the pretense of fighting back? It’s heartbreaking.

I will simply reply by just read what I wrote earlier because is applies to you as well. And your response proves every point I made.

thanx for that push liz. But lets also ask Moveon and others there is absolutely NO compromise on OPEN debates so the likes of Kucinich Gravel and Nader could be heard directly against the empty suits aka Obama Clinton Edwards

It would work if enough people did it.

I hope all of the purists out there are paying attention. By not voting Democratic this year you are playing right into the hands of the Corporate Theocratic Takeover of this country.

I had never thought of not voting. I’d rather vote for for a Democrat that I’m not thrilled with than have a raging lunatic republican in office. I agree with Kucinich the republicans are mentally ill and I will go one step further, they need to be institutionalized……soon.

The dems do have the big tent. But what comes along with the big tent is a great deal of unfocused and unstructured behavior. The dems also have a tendency to want to be loved. They have no ability to see the future in terms of the long haul. The Rep. come from another place altogether. Power. In the need and grasp for power they are able to do what ever it takes. The rules are for losers. This is how they think. Compromise means weakness.

They really do see the world in terms of authoritarians and the other side as soft and whiners. They hate to lose. They have a morally muffled social conscience. We cannot compete with that in the same way. But we can stop giving up. We can stop the childishness of wanting to be liked. Being liked at the expense of fighting. If we don’t fight, if we are afraid to fight for the agenda that the President was elected for, then we will always get the minimal results. Realism is needed. Not the realism that walks over others, but a realistic idea of what it means to continue to push. We give up and give in too soon.

If we really do want this country to move toward a balanced and just life for all Americans, then we must take these robots on and hit them where they live. And if the true progressives want a stake in how this Democracy survives, then we will have to focus. It is uncomfortable to face a party that have no rules. It is nasty. You cannot have a Democracy and be childish. Children do not run a country. There is no easy way to do this. We have to be willing to slug it out. We have to be willing to do the hard stuff on the local level as well as nationally. Someone said, “all politics are local.” They are, and that is where the strength of the base is. Not just at election time but year round.

The master of this is Howard Dean, he gave us the base for the last big win. If we are unwilling to fight them with the same weapons they use, then we deserve to lose. The weapons are the same, but one thing is different, we are. The truth is in the history of their party. We don’t need to lie, the truth of what they have done and continue to do is there to see. We need to use that along with the media that is so lopsided. If they can turn the media into a conservative arm of the GOP, then we need to turn it toward the middle and some semblance of fairness.

We need to encourage those progressives with money to do what needs to be done. To begin to buy up some of the media access. Newspapers, radio stations and tv stations. So far the conservatives have done all the buying. They are damn near geniuses at using the media, and we have allowed them to take it all. And we sit on our hands and moan. How much good does it do to say it is unfair? Of course it is. Fair does not enter into politics or life much anymore. We need to stop waiting for someone to make it fair and equitable. It is the job of the true progressive to make it fair, or at the very least tougher for the GOP/tea party to foist their agenda unchecked, on the rest of us.

How about a new party of progressives. Howard Dean, Anthony Weiner, Dennis Kucinich, Boxer, Franken, Feingold, Bernie Saunders, Alan Grayson, and few dozen more. I cannot believe that a true party of progressives is not possible. We wait at our own peril. There are enough liberals and progressives in this country to get a new party. Leave the blue dogs behind.

If we will not, or cannot fight them than we deserve what they have done and will do. Why the hell give them more time and more strength by turning this country over to them. If you are discouraged than for crying out loud, remember who put us here. Get off your butts and vote!!!

I have read it and I do respect Robert Parry but the criminal genocidal wars and the developing surveillance police state are now owned by Obama and the Democrats. Forget about what they say, watch what they actually do. Their policies, in the most critical areas, are indistinguishable from those of the Bush/Cheney Régime. The expansion of the Afghanistan war into Pakistan, the failure to reign in the Israeli wehrmacht and to stop the genocide against Palestine, the war threats against Iran based on total lies, the reiteration of the totally false official 9/11 mythology to justify the “War on Terrorism” are just a few examples. Either Obama actually believes in these policies or he like Bush is criminally insane.

It’s folly to think, as Thom Hartmann apparently does, that a progressive movement can form within the Democratic party in a time frame that can matter. And America is just about out of time. The actual reality is that effective civilian governmental control ended on 9/11 when the Neo-Con/Militarist/Zionist Cabal staged a coup d’etat.

Consequently, I have decided that a third party consisting of progressives, the anti-war crowd, fiscal conservatives, working people, constitutionalists, and libertarians is the only hope. We need to join together, put aside our minor differences, and create a movement to restore our Constitutional rights and freedoms and to shut down once and for all the Military Industrial Media Complex and the surveillance police state.

I would submit that not voting is destructive as well. Many people have died for the right to vote but voting is not enough. A brief look shows why our country is where it is today with the Supreme court giving Corporations more rights than people. http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/10/15-7

troll

While you are pissing all over the Democratic Party, check out Keith Olbermann’s special comment tonight. Get an idea of what could happen and things to come because so many who think of themselves as “good people” decided to stay home and not vote in protest because the change they wanted didn’t happen in less than two years. I understand the ignorance driving the tea party movement but there is no excuse for the left to not get out and vote. Shame on any so called progressive/liberals who stays home and doesn’t vote. And if the worst fears come true they will also have blood on their hands.

“Bankoolaid” , in several of her postings, enjoins us to read Robert Parry’s debunking of “The ‘Teach-the-Dems-a-Lesson’ Myth”.

Parry’s article documents the futility of retreat from the electoral process. His, is the voice of cold analysis and reason.

It is, however, an incontrovertible fact that cold analysis and the voice of reason are lost to a nation which glories in historical ignorance and political apathy;

The voices of reason are silenced in a nation which repeatedly abdicates its responsibilities by tolerating atrocities such as the Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan massacres;

The voice of reason is strangled in a nation which twice tolerated the fraudulent s-election of a criminally incompetent George W. Bush and the preeminence of international pariahs like Dick Cheney;

Cold analysis and the voice of reason find only deaf ears in a nation which will not openly revolt against the Republicans’ and Obama’s emasculation of our civil liberties in the name of contrived national security threats.

The cold voice of reason tells us that the Republicans have themselves become a national security threat by creating millions of insurgents around the world, so-called “terrorists”, who revolt against seeing their families burned alive, their wives and daughters raped, their resources stolen, their cultures trashed and their economies destroyed.

No my friends, cold analysis and the voice of reason have no standing in a nation so demoralized that it is ready to accept any leader much as the Germans did in trying to escape the last Great Depression, much as the Russians did in their revolt against the tyranny of the Tsar.

We have yet to see any leader other than one enthroned by the banksters and the merchants of death.

Yet, an imminent disaster is being brewed by tea parties and a dismemberment of our body politic by Republican hyenas preying on our vulnerability, a vulnerability they themselves have created.

You have a choice: Prepare to mount the barricades, or vote for Democrats to prevent another Republican coup d’état.

Wow!

We appreciate your passion, but if you do it again, you will be blacklisted. thanks, Raw moderators

You are a Party Basher and offer Nothing but the same old shit from the opposing force……….what a well informed shill you are…………….what choe got DemocRAT

Swoosh…………….CHRIS is a True american Thinker

Bwa Ha Ha Ha …………is that your HALOween Mask……….Labeling someone?
how intelligent and debonair………..anothr PARTY Shill

Ever been to a g20 without a weapon…………….Bubbles win

Although we share a Brotherly Connection………My forefathers, whom included those from the NORGE……..immigrated to America……..as do many people now in 2010.
I dare say the best place to go is Europe………..LOL……..LOL
Cost Rica is the last bastion from the long arm of Imperial USA……….except for those Nuke Subs we just put in place there

Please advise me of my error.

Bite me.

He walt Im not stupid enough to think that freedom comes from ballot boxes.

Or too confuse fighting for what I believe in with checking blanks on paper.

Also we a representative Democracy Walt. That is because the founding fathers knew you

were to stupid to make your own decisions. Its all in the federalist papers.

I dont need or want someone to represent me. I can do it just fine my self.

I represent myself. I do not need a high priced politician to say yes or no for me.

If you like the idea of voting for someone to vote for you.

maybe you should pay me to spend your money for you.

After 8 years of hell with Bush, the choice was clear and it still is. I have never known anyone to do things exactly as I would do them, so it is extremely difficult to judge the current administration for perceived wrongs. It probably sucks to be the President.
Also, while I am in this space, I have a question. In the third or fourth month of President Obama’s presidency, did he or did he not say in a speech “that you do not know how powerful the powerful are”… I may not have caught the entire statement . Dialup dude in the Appalachian mountains

You cannot re post the same link over and over. It becomes spam. I asked you to stop and you did it again. You have posted this link over 20 times on this thread alone.

I’m sorry, I didn’t post anything after I saw your message. I didn’t realize that was “spam.” I thought “spam” was when you mass mail a product or service that you’re trying to sell. I’ve never done anything like that before and I evidently over stepped a boundary. Please accept my apology.
Sincerely,
Marisa

The Fascist Konservative Republicans, or as I like to call them, the mother-FKR’s, are uckingfay utsnay.

I’ve already voted early. I voted straight Democratic Party ticket.

“We can get out there and make our voices heard,” says the man buried alive in Democratic Party indifferent silence and outright avoidance?

God bless Dennis Kucinich.

America would be a darker place without him.

But at this point, two years into Obama’s presidency, with Democrats about to reap the barren fields of their own political cowardice, how exactly are we going to be heard?

Impeachment was “not on the table,” and an entire moral agenda was avoided, because it was deemed more important to not draw the enmity of Americans during ‘war time,’ and endanger the Democratic Party’s chances in 2008 – and thus achieve a Democratic President and majority.

Two years of a Democratic presidency and majority WAS OUR VOICE.

WE HAVEN’T HEARD IT.

why doesnt the Prez come out with a confession, why doesnt he make a binding commitment. I will do this and that or resign in 100 days.

Ok dim wusses, here is your work cut out. Get your spines up and show us, 5 days to go

Right on Dennis!

“that you do not know how powerful the powerful are”

And, therein lies the problem. The Dems served up a candidate who did not understand such things before taking office (also, a reasonable explanation for his promising everything to everyone during his campaign – an impossible task to anyone with only a glimmering of awareness) and, after that, it was too late. The big power centers of D.C. – the Pentagon and the Treasury cannot be dealt with “off-the-cuff” as the only “respect” they have for “politics” is that which the President brings to bear against them. Forget the org-chart that places them under his nominal control – they are powers onto themselves and, if he,and his advisers are not up to the ways and means of those powers, he and they will be run over – which appears to be what has happened. Cynically, did the Dems foolishly put up such a candidate thinking that they would have more control over him? From election-day onward, the legislators asserted their goals on any number of issues with only seemingly faint coordination with the W.H.. In the end, as the polls show, few are satisfied and the problems seem worse than ever.

Democrats need to be punished for The Pelosi-Reid Deficits. Take this country back, vote Angle, O’Donnell, Miller and Paul.

‘Mrs. Pelosi and Mr. Reid rose to their present jobs in January 2007, the deficit was $161 billion. It had been on a downward trajectory from $413 billion in 2004. Three years later, the Pelosi-Reid Congress had added $1.2 trillion to the deficit.’ -wsj.com

Barry O has already handed the Democratic party to the forces of GOP nihilism with his indifferent soft shoe dancing, his shallow and snappy patter and his persistent flying about on Air Force One. I will write in Ren and Stimpy in 2012 and suggest that you, dear reader, consider doing the same.

Oh, really, and who would you suggest to wear the leather slacks and Nazi garrison cap to administer this punishment? Newt Gengrich? Sarah Palin? Bozo the Clown?

Reason, unlike revenge, is NOT a dish best served cold nor is it a canvas painted with a broad brush. It must be finely tuned and specific, focused, accurate and terse.

The fact is the democrats are not evil. The republicans are not evil. There are two different ideas about how the United States should run. The American people spoke loud and clear that they did not want the Health Care bill. The democrats chose to ignore the voices of the American people and now are going to pay full price for their votes on the health care bill.
The American people run this country. That is something the democrats forgot.

Take this country back, vote Angle, O’Donnell, Miller and Paul.
I can’t vote for these things, I still have a soul.
Did you voice any thoughts regarding GWu and his doubling of the deficit?
If not, STFU! You things are dumber then kitty litter.

More than happy to help you out… You go vote for your corporate christian war criminals…. becasuae that’s what you are… I’ll stay home. BYW… get real… Bush was the debt raiser.

Spoken like a true “me, myself, and I” ignorant fool.

It’s not about “punishing” anyone…. it’s about not letting a corporate christian war criminal government represent you any longer. You sound like a fear mongering right winger trying to get people to buy into a system that is designed to fail and frustrate. If you vote you give the criminals the right to represent you and your support makes you complicit in the war crimes. That’s just not going to work for me. Show me how to avoid that and I will vote. Right now, not voting, is the only reasonable option.

Really? bombing innocent people with a lie as a basis isn’t evil? I’d say that’s pretty evil, and supported by both parties.

Do reality much, justinterested? ‘Evil’ is a word that’s way overused by most, that being said, Republicans don’t represent the average (read ‘working’ or ‘non-wealty’) American, and are dealers in and various kinds of hate and discrimination as well.

What is the different idea that Republicans propose? What you seem to be trying to do is to somehow make the difference between Republicans and Democrats, when it seems fairly obvious to anyone that is paying attention that Republicans care most for looting Social Security, and turning the reigns of government over to corporate interests.

Also, there’s no evidence outside of Fox News or other right-wing sources that the health care bill is an issue that bothers American voters in the manner you suggest.

In fact, some think that the current heath care bill didn’t go far enough.

The Democrats, flaws and all, have been more driven by the needs of the American people than Republicans have since Lincoln, though they don’t have the advantage of Fox Noise to trumpet the fact.

Or how about some real democracy, instead of voting for corporate puppet A or B? Like where we pass the laws, not a bunch of “representatives.” I’m not represented unless I get to vote on the Bill, ok Kucinich?

‘Everyone loves to talk about the ‘left wing’ or the ‘right wing,’ but never the central body which controls both of them’

If I were to write someone in, I would probably choose either Galactus or Jonny Quest.

Screw you and Ronald Raygun.

Jesus is a Democrat.

Reality check… the american people did not want the health care bill “as written”. They wanted “single payer”…. big difference from “not wanting it”. Repuklicans f-ed up the bill to what it is now that nobody wants. Repuklicans need to know who runs this country too…. and they need to demand a “real” investigation and prison sentences for bush and his corporate christian war criminal buddies…. and citizen supporters…. like you.

Its up to you to show others how to make the world the way you want it to be, not up to others to make the world be what you would like it to be.

You have a choice. Sit on your hands and watch the republicans clean your plate, or accept you can’t get all that one wants at once, but at least the structure is still there to better the system with the next push.

What republicans want is feudalism, plan and simple. It is after all, one of the world’s most stable political system. Democracies are far more difficult to manage, just look at Greece after the Romans left or Germany in the 20′s and 30′s.

What you have to do is to decide just how feudal you want to be and what role you are likely to get to play, baron or serf?

Actually, it is surprisingly little compared to the incredible stream of autos that pass between SF and LA each day. If charging relies could be built into the tracks, solar power should theoretically be able to easily propel a high speed train at 400-500 mph, if the tracks are suitably built to limit friction, perhaps 4 or 5 times per day in both directions simultaneously. The sunshine is there. It only needs to be connected.

Yes, but perhaps their ineffectiveness can be used to advantage, or at least much more so than facing right-wing goon squads with little more than reason for protection.

Its not as if you can just pass legislation insisting that everyone agree with you.

Just out of curiosity do think that might get done? Call in Karl Rove?

I don’t think the concept of a boycott goes far enough to be self-sustaining. One has to have the mindset of establishing within normal modern life institutions that serve as anti-corporations and that prey on those corporations whose behaviors deserve it.

It needs to be web-mediated and live so that it can force dramatic change in a corporate bottom line in a matter of hours. Lots of lists, queues, discussions of bad behavior with lots of input from civilian yet moderated specialty topic citizen’s groups that can not be easily disrupted by corporate influences..

[...] to be outdone, Dennis Kucinich “We can get out there and make our voices heard, or we can let the forces of nihilism take [...]

[...] to be outdone, Dennis Kucinich “We can get out there and make our voices heard, or we can let the forces of nihilism take [...]

To be flip: why not, it seemed to work on Democrats over the last 10 years.

Unless they were Democrats in name only…

Actually it’s vast amounts. In theory doesn’t power shit. Excuse my crass language, I was raised in America. Anyway. You’re still missing the batteries to make it all work. We’re getting at best 21% return on photo-voltaic in practice, that means a boat load of solar, not to mention the sub-stations to pass that all along.

The sunshine has been there for a long time but getting the juice out of it is extremely expensive up front. Trains need infrastructure all the way along. You’re surprisingly cheap is not surprisingly pie in the sky.

It might also be worth mentioning that all the god damn water pipes all the way up and down are all rotten and the water is PH 8+ which is technically poison so we might want to get all the people working the train lines bottled water to avoid future lawsuits.

Things add up, cheap is never as cheap as people think it is.

If I knew how much I was going to be spending on printer ink I never would have started my own business!

There isn’t a bullet train on the planet powered end to end by solar. We’re behind on solar, and have no bullet trains, but we can do this cheap? We can even steal from our own tax base cheap.

[...] lucky the FEC doesn’t look to fine newspapers for in kind contributions. Not to be outdone, Dennis Kucinich “We can get out there and make our voices heard, or we can let the forces of nihilism take [...]

I think the only option left is to flee home (America) and become a Nu Nomad until the Republican scorched earth practice is finished. Then return and enslave the dumb masses who gave up their liberties and economy for nothing.

Consider Max Cady and Selatius as well.

Very helpful site. I appreciate your effort, have a good day!

Excellent article and easy to understand explanation. How do I go about getting permission to post part of the article in my upcoming news letter? Giving proper credit to you the author and link to the site would not be a problem.

[...] remarks reflect a shift in stance from an interview with Raw Story last October, when he said a primary challenge to Obama would only weaken the president and help [...]

[...] to the House of Representatives.”Kucinich’s remarks reflect a shift in stance from an interview with Raw Story last October, when he said a primary challenge to Obama would only weaken the president and help [...]