I don’t remember voting for either one of these characters as my progressive representative.

I don’t remember voting for either one of these characters as my progressive representative.

I don’t remember voting for either one of these characters as my progressive representative.

Finally we can have a third party, but why Nader? I don’t consider him to be a progressive. He’s okay, but Chomsky is a better representation of what the left libertarians believe in.

Finally we can have a third party, but why Nader? I don’t consider him to be a progressive. He’s okay, but Chomsky is a better representation of what the left libertarians believe in.

Finally we can have a third party, but why Nader? I don’t consider him to be a progressive. He’s okay, but Chomsky is a better representation of what the left libertarians believe in.

‘Ron Paul is GOD!’

“Let the healing begin!”

‘Ron Paul is GOD!’

“Let the healing begin!”

‘Ron Paul is GOD!’

“Let the healing begin!”

Nader has sold out. The Tea Party is backed by the corporatist Koch bros.

Nader has sold out. The Tea Party is backed by the corporatist Koch bros.

Nader has sold out. The Tea Party is backed by the corporatist Koch bros.

This could be interesting, The foreign policies of Paul and the economics of Nader.

This could be interesting, The foreign policies of Paul and the economics of Nader.

This could be interesting, The foreign policies of Paul and the economics of Nader.

Audit of the Fed? Sorry I can’t stop laughing!

Audit of the Fed? Sorry I can’t stop laughing!

Audit of the Fed? Sorry I can’t stop laughing!

Chomsky is not a politician, he is a professional Salon contestataire….As an author and writer,he is prolific and a must read, but as a political ideologue, he has no credibility, Chomski has been the sacred cow & the gate keeper of the left for most of his life.

Chomsky is not a politician, he is a professional Salon contestataire….As an author and writer,he is prolific and a must read, but as a political ideologue, he has no credibility, Chomski has been the sacred cow & the gate keeper of the left for most of his life.

Chomsky is not a politician, he is a professional Salon contestataire….As an author and writer,he is prolific and a must read, but as a political ideologue, he has no credibility, Chomski has been the sacred cow & the gate keeper of the left for most of his life.

[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by The Raw Story, Tom, Ludovic, Brandon Gray, postdrop and others. postdrop said: This has potential: Ron Paul, Ralph Nader agree on ‘progressive-libertarian alliance’ | Raw Story http://t.co/0wY2uy8 [...]

There already is a third party, the Green Party, I believe they call it. This would be the 4th party. But then again, there was one of those, the Socialist/Communist/Libertarian/Linden LaRouch deal. Oh, hell. Who knows anymore?

There already is a third party, the Green Party, I believe they call it. This would be the 4th party. But then again, there was one of those, the Socialist/Communist/Libertarian/Linden LaRouch deal. Oh, hell. Who knows anymore?

There already is a third party, the Green Party, I believe they call it. This would be the 4th party. But then again, there was one of those, the Socialist/Communist/Libertarian/Linden LaRouch deal. Oh, hell. Who knows anymore?

“Tea Party hero” – ROFL! Oh, heavens, how to fool the mind.

“Tea Party hero” – ROFL! Oh, heavens, how to fool the mind.

“Tea Party hero” – ROFL! Oh, heavens, how to fool the mind.

As far as I’m concerned they can go fuck each other too … move along ……..

As far as I’m concerned they can go fuck each other too … move along ……..

As far as I’m concerned they can go fuck each other too … move along ……..

Like Ron Paul just wish he’d stop paling around with the likes of Ralph Nader, Cynthia McKinney, Dennis Kucinich, Mike Gravel, Alex Jones…

You are known by the company you WILLINGLY keep, Dr. Paul.

Like Ron Paul just wish he’d stop paling around with the likes of Ralph Nader, Cynthia McKinney, Dennis Kucinich, Mike Gravel, Alex Jones…

You are known by the company you WILLINGLY keep, Dr. Paul.

Bullshit.
Nader has never and will never sell out.

The tea baggers are phony baloney, Nader is genuine.

Bullshit.
Nader has never and will never sell out.

The tea baggers are phony baloney, Nader is genuine.

Nader is one of the original progressives.
Obviously you don’t know much about him.

Nader is one of the original progressives.
Obviously you don’t know much about him.

I agree. Paul is not my hero.
But Nader is very sharp and always has been. Too bad he gets slandered by delusional people more often than he deserves.

I agree. Paul is not my hero.
But Nader is very sharp and always has been. Too bad he gets slandered by delusional people more often than he deserves.

Libertarianism is a voluntary approach consistent with many others. For information on world Libertarians at work, please see: http://www.Libertarian-International.org

Libertarianism is a voluntary approach consistent with many others. For information on world Libertarians at work, please see: http://www.Libertarian-International.org

There is no God….

There is no God….

I watch and listen to things like this and a small glimmer of hope reawakens in my Soul. Thank you, Ralph and Ron for your outspoken honesty.

“There is no perfection, merely the seeking of it.”…Me, 2011

I watch and listen to things like this and a small glimmer of hope reawakens in my Soul. Thank you, Ralph and Ron for your outspoken honesty.

“There is no perfection, merely the seeking of it.”…Me, 2011

Nader was fighting GM when you were peeing your diaper. Maybe you haven’t stopped.

Nader was fighting GM when you were peeing your diaper. Maybe you haven’t stopped.

I can easily see a great and broad-based alliance forming among Paul-Kucinich-Nader-Napolitano-Sanders and others. Just because they do not agree on everything, does not mean that they could not work together to oppose the things that we all commonly oppose. That is the true meaning of political coalitions and real justice and freedom for ALL Americans. Beyond that, it would help the world at large because the war machine would be curtailed from the perpetual invasions. Watch this video on Olbermann correctly attacking Lieberman: http://republicconstitution.blogspot.com/ It really makes one wonder if this was in some way related to Olbermann’s ouster.

I can easily see a great and broad-based alliance forming among Paul-Kucinich-Nader-Napolitano-Sanders and others. Just because they do not agree on everything, does not mean that they could not work together to oppose the things that we all commonly oppose. That is the true meaning of political coalitions and real justice and freedom for ALL Americans. Beyond that, it would help the world at large because the war machine would be curtailed from the perpetual invasions. Watch this video on Olbermann correctly attacking Lieberman: http://republicconstitution.blogspot.com/ It really makes one wonder if this was in some way related to Olbermann’s ouster.

This alliance has far broader public support than is represented in Congress, particularly thanks to the corporate takeover of our democracy which went into overdrive a year ago with Citizens United. There are probably only a handful of members of Congress who are not awash with corporate money and beholden to special interests. The larger public support, particularly on the internet can be instrumental here however in helping to put pressure on Congress to stop selling out civil liberties and ballooning the national debt due to a bloated military budget.

This alliance has far broader public support than is represented in Congress, particularly thanks to the corporate takeover of our democracy which went into overdrive a year ago with Citizens United. There are probably only a handful of members of Congress who are not awash with corporate money and beholden to special interests. The larger public support, particularly on the internet can be instrumental here however in helping to put pressure on Congress to stop selling out civil liberties and ballooning the national debt due to a bloated military budget.

Negativity does not lead to change, My Friend. I KNOW because I’m a “recovering” Cynic and Negaholic. (-:)

Negativity does not lead to change, My Friend. I KNOW because I’m a “recovering” Cynic and Negaholic. (-:)

Then by all means vote for the warmonger Obama or his warmonger opponent in 2012 Romney. The Establishment Left/Right is the same.

Then by all means vote for the warmonger Obama or his warmonger opponent in 2012 Romney. The Establishment Left/Right is the same.

Totally agree. Foucault was a much better theorist than Chomsky.

Totally agree. Foucault was a much better theorist than Chomsky.

Actually, the U.S. has had well over a dozen other parties but for the past 80 years has been an almost exclusively 2-party state with BOTH parties ran by what Dr. Cornel West calls the establishment oligarchy. Paul and Nader are clearly anti-establishment types who BOTH fully oppose the corporatist regimes we have had forced upon us since JFK was murdered.

Actually, the U.S. has had well over a dozen other parties but for the past 80 years has been an almost exclusively 2-party state with BOTH parties ran by what Dr. Cornel West calls the establishment oligarchy. Paul and Nader are clearly anti-establishment types who BOTH fully oppose the corporatist regimes we have had forced upon us since JFK was murdered.

Funny, I don’t remember giving Ralph Nader my permission to make any alliances on my behalf with any documented bigots.

Funny, I don’t remember giving Ralph Nader my permission to make any alliances on my behalf with any documented bigots.

I agree. Nader opposes the lunatic Neo-Cons who have taken over the Republican party and are buying up the Tea Party too. Ron Paul opposes the Neo-Cons at every opportunity because they have diametrically opposite beliefs about the use of state power to invade.

I agree. Nader opposes the lunatic Neo-Cons who have taken over the Republican party and are buying up the Tea Party too. Ron Paul opposes the Neo-Cons at every opportunity because they have diametrically opposite beliefs about the use of state power to invade.

Wrong. A FACTION of the Tea Party is controlled by the Koch brothers and, if you would do some reading on it, the Koch’s did not support Paul for President in 2008 because they believe in the Cato Institute version of libertarians that includes RINO’s and Neo-Cons. Ron Paul does not represent those views. Nader will never sell out and neither will Ron Paul.

Wrong. A FACTION of the Tea Party is controlled by the Koch brothers and, if you would do some reading on it, the Koch’s did not support Paul for President in 2008 because they believe in the Cato Institute version of libertarians that includes RINO’s and Neo-Cons. Ron Paul does not represent those views. Nader will never sell out and neither will Ron Paul.

Brainwashed much? I’ve heard Ron Paul called a racist and bigot for years, but for whatever reason there doesn’t seem to be any visual or audio evidence to support it. Why is that?

Brainwashed much? I’ve heard Ron Paul called a racist and bigot for years, but for whatever reason there doesn’t seem to be any visual or audio evidence to support it. Why is that?

Correction, some of the tea partiers are tea bagger phonies. Ron Paul was the originator of it and then the Koch brothers came in and bought up many of them to go toward the Neo-Con version of libertarians. There is a reason the Koch brothers did not support Paul and essentially ignore him and that is because they love war and the federal reserve, which Paul opposes.

Correction, some of the tea partiers are tea bagger phonies. Ron Paul was the originator of it and then the Koch brothers came in and bought up many of them to go toward the Neo-Con version of libertarians. There is a reason the Koch brothers did not support Paul and essentially ignore him and that is because they love war and the federal reserve, which Paul opposes.

The delusional slanders of Paul have been as bad or worse than those directed at Nader. Paul gets attacked by Neo-Cons, Republicans, Democrats, Progressives and few of them even understand the true freedom and liberty that he stands for. Rather everyone just takes what the media says and then hates on Paul associating him with things he does not support or believe in.

The delusional slanders of Paul have been as bad or worse than those directed at Nader. Paul gets attacked by Neo-Cons, Republicans, Democrats, Progressives and few of them even understand the true freedom and liberty that he stands for. Rather everyone just takes what the media says and then hates on Paul associating him with things he does not support or believe in.

I just have to get over a few things I don’t like about Ron Paul, I’ve gotta cry myself my own river for that.
But one thing is certain about Ron Paul, he is very honest, he’s not even close to a bullshitter. A few of the social issues he has me not too happy, but he’s alright with most everything else.

I just have to get over a few things I don’t like about Ron Paul, I’ve gotta cry myself my own river for that.
But one thing is certain about Ron Paul, he is very honest, he’s not even close to a bullshitter. A few of the social issues he has me not too happy, but he’s alright with most everything else.

I know, i just can’t seem to see why they can’t recognize all the great “Change” that has come from the Obama regime. Look at all those wars that have ended, banksters arrested, rendition camps closed, jobs created within the US, and all that free health care we all enjoy now.

I know, i just can’t seem to see why they can’t recognize all the great “Change” that has come from the Obama regime. Look at all those wars that have ended, banksters arrested, rendition camps closed, jobs created within the US, and all that free health care we all enjoy now.

Lies. You Ronbots hate the truth. Ron Paul published a series of racist newsletters.

He’s a racist dog of the white pointy hat variety.

And deny it all you want. It’s all documented and a PROVEN FACT.

Lies. You Ronbots hate the truth. Ron Paul published a series of racist newsletters.

He’s a racist dog of the white pointy hat variety.

And deny it all you want. It’s all documented and a PROVEN FACT.

Yes, I stand corrected.

Yes, I stand corrected.

Yes, I have slandered Paul. And I’d be willing to say I was wrong.

Yes, I have slandered Paul. And I’d be willing to say I was wrong.

Who do you propose he “paling around with”? There is NOTHING wrong with forming a broad alliance of people interested in freedom, liberty, the Constitution, and justice. Kucinich-Jones-McKinney-Nader and many others do not want to harm America unlike the Neo-Cons and warmongering extremists and Islamophobes. Some people seem to have a hard time figuring out who their real friends are and taking everything to some wild extreme that it only has to be libertarians or only progressives, etc. We need to work together and not against each other.

Who do you propose he “paling around with”? There is NOTHING wrong with forming a broad alliance of people interested in freedom, liberty, the Constitution, and justice. Kucinich-Jones-McKinney-Nader and many others do not want to harm America unlike the Neo-Cons and warmongering extremists and Islamophobes. Some people seem to have a hard time figuring out who their real friends are and taking everything to some wild extreme that it only has to be libertarians or only progressives, etc. We need to work together and not against each other.

There are two tea party camps. One was started by the 9/11 truth movement which merged and grew into the Ron Paul revolution. The Ron Paul revolution tea party was growing and was a real threat to the establishment, so it was hijacked and is now largely controlled by neocons who never speak out against the wars, and really don’t have a clue about how the federal reserve institutes financial slavery. Ron Paul is the real deal, unless you think that government is there to provide everything to you. If you do, move to China and you can see first hand just how ambitious the government is there to provide everything to you.

There are two tea party camps. One was started by the 9/11 truth movement which merged and grew into the Ron Paul revolution. The Ron Paul revolution tea party was growing and was a real threat to the establishment, so it was hijacked and is now largely controlled by neocons who never speak out against the wars, and really don’t have a clue about how the federal reserve institutes financial slavery. Ron Paul is the real deal, unless you think that government is there to provide everything to you. If you do, move to China and you can see first hand just how ambitious the government is there to provide everything to you.

I was a county organizer for Nader’s most recent prez campaign. But now it seems that Nader has gone bonkers. I would never work with the Ron Paul sheep and I don’t know of any Nader supporter who would. They are the enemy of the people and allies of big business.

I was a county organizer for Nader’s most recent prez campaign. But now it seems that Nader has gone bonkers. I would never work with the Ron Paul sheep and I don’t know of any Nader supporter who would. They are the enemy of the people and allies of big business.

Fuck everybody who goes on Fox News.

Seriously.

If you go on Fox News, FUCK YOU.

Fuck everybody who goes on Fox News.

Seriously.

If you go on Fox News, FUCK YOU.

OK Im willing to listen to them. There is things to like and things not to like about both of em.

OK Im willing to listen to them. There is things to like and things not to like about both of em.

we can attack the political actors and each other or we can discuss policy.

end nafta. me likey.
end patriot act. me likey.
cut wasteful military spending. me likey.
end undeclared wars. me likey.
withdraw from wto. me likey.
audit the fed. absolutely.

what corporatist democrat or republican would support anything on that list? none.

coalitions between libertarians and progressives are the only way we stop the oligarchy, considering citizen’s united money equals free speech decision and the utter contempt of incumbents to campaign finance reform. corporations own our government. perhaps we should listen to those who want to take it back.

Chomsky is an anarchist, not a libertarian. Libertarians are more accurately termed corporate anarchists, whereas Chomsky is a working people’s anarchist. As far as “left libertarians” are concerned–if you’re with the corporations, you cannot be with the left. If you believe in free market ideology, you’re on the right.

Ron Paul published a series of racist newsletters.

Wrong that was debunked a long time ago. It isn’t a fact no matter how bad you want it to be so.

Your attitude is what is gonna keep this country on its downward spiral.

Yep. I’m acutely aware of how the duopoly works. I’m not sure that a Ron Paul/Paul Nader allegiance is the answer. I can’t read Ron Paul so I’m not sure about him. When I’m not sure, I automatically distrust them and they usually prove me right. Whatever little I’ve heard from Nader, I happen to like. So who knows? Maybe if they manage to recruit Dennis Kucicinich…

Would you rather he pal around with the Neo-Cons and Neo-liberals, who don’t care about anyone but themselves and keeping their power?

I told him to go ahead. We’re letting you go.

I just commented something like that to TruthRegimes below. Whatever little I’ve heard of Nader, I like. Ron Paul, I can’t read the guy so I automatically distrust him. Historically, whenever I’ve distrust someone, they’ve turned out to prove me right on the long run. Now, if they manage to get Dennis Kucinich on their side, that’ll be a big “Yes!” for me.

This is a great thing.

Good G-d! With a leading libertarian, Bob Barr, just announcing that he will be the ‘voice’ of former brutal dictator Baby Doc Duvalier?

No matter how they begin and with what good intentions, libertarians, through their sheer naivety, always end up supporting authoritarian dictatorships.

the thugs and the dems are totally currupt.. wtf, why not.

Ralph Nader should be leading massive demonstrations in Washington.

Where there are no protests at all going on.

Instead of sticking his tongue up Ron Paul’s Cat Hospital Ass.

Also, check this out:
“Al Franken Takes Rand Paul Under His Tutelage”
http://www.mediaite.com/online/strange-bedfellows-al-franken-takes-rand-paul-under-his-tutegage/

Wrong. You wouldn’t know the truth if it was in front of you, Which it is.

Those newsletters were not debunked. A simple online search will prove it to anyone who cares to look.

Your are either lying or delusional or both. Which is typical for a RonBot.

Oh yes indeed, if you are able to read “dans le texte”, you have to read “Folie et déraison: Histoire de la folie à l’âge classique” It is one masterpiece of anthropological sociology.

Where have you been? Nader has consistently protested the war and spoken out against Obama’s continuing support of it and Dr. Ron Paul delivered over 4000 babies during his medical career. What have you ever done?

Exactly.

[...] did make some interesting news lately.  Take a look at this article from Raw Story entitled, Ron Paul, Ralph Nader agree on ‘progressive-libertarian alliance’ Video of the actual interview of Paul and Nader by Judge Napolitano on FreedomWatch can be found [...]

I don’t know if I’d call a former representative who voted for the Patriot Act a leading libertarian. Sure, he got the nomination in 2008, but every party makes mistakes. The Republicans did after all opted for John McCain above everyone else…

That wasn’t ignorant or anything.

So fuck Alan Colmes, right?

Yes, you are saying exactly what I said. Great comment!

It’s documented? Really? Let me see the proof of this “PROVEN FACT”. Until then…you sound like the bot.

Hey don’t attack me moron.

I don’t see the National Mall full of Naderites.

Shitsniffer.

Wow, just last week all progressives were saying to temper outrageous political speech. Good grief. Judge Napolitano’s show frequently opposes Hannity and O’Reilly. Fox Business Channel is very different in nature than regular Fox News. Judge Nap stands for liberty and the Constitution, not Fox News Neo-Con warmongering.

I don’t care what they go by or are called. It’s way past time to stop this horseshit.

You don’t understand “Boycott” lambchops?

Yes. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over while expecting a different result. Keep supporting the Establishment Left or the Establishment Right and guess what you get more of?? Yep, the Establishment. War, debt, evisceration of civil liberties, the fake drug war, and the fake war on terror. Wake up, people. This Nader-Paul-Al Franken-Rand Paul-Kucinich is a GREAT possibility for all of us.

Troll.

Paul has NEVER been a bigot. That stupid newsletter thing almost 20 years ago NEVER had any link to Ron knowing what was in it. These ludicrous charges prove that no one ever does their own research and merely accepts the myths told to them by mainstream media.

There is ZERO evidence of it. Ron Paul does not EVER support any such ludicrous things. Racism is inherently and fundamentally unsupportable according to Paul’s individualist civil libertarian views. True classical liberals do not ascribe to modern group/collectivist thought about race. He is not a racist.

Why would you never work for/with Ron Paul?

Wow, you are clearly never going to try to find out the truth on that silliness. Ron never had any knowledge of what that quack published. How could anyone know the contents of everything published about them? It is ludicrous. There could be a website up right now in your name claiming all kinds of things you do not agree with. Just think about it.

Ron Paul can have him. As far as I’m concerned, Ralph Nader is the man responsible for giving us the epic disaster that was George W. Bush and I’ll never forgive him for it.

Actually, yes they were. He was in private medical practice when they were published by people who wanted him back in politics. As soon as he was made aware of the offensive editorials, he fired the guy responsible for them and issued a public apology.

Look at the demographics of his congressional district. It’s 70% brown, yet he continues to be re-elected. You’d think his constituents would be smart enough to not hire a bigot?

Yeah, those Obamanoids have no reasonable ground to stand on at all since Obama has totally abandoned every single campaign promise he made to the people so that he could run to his corporatist donors.

If you eliminate people like Ron Paul and Ralph Nader from your support, you eliminate 90% of the people who are intelligent enough to do some good.

yeah

If Democrats weren’t so hypocritical, running hacks like Kerry and Gore… (and even worse… Edwards and Lieberman)…. then I probably would have voted Democratic in those elections.

Ralph Nader didn’t create Bush. It was a collective effort of the American People, the Democratic Party, and the Republican Party.

the american public is responsible for giving us W Bush, not Ralph Nader.

Actually, Chomsky professes to be an anarcho-libertarian but at every turn he refers to the UN as if it should keep the U.S. in check. That is Big Government watching over Big Government, lol. That is not libertarian in any way.

This is exactly the kind of game changing event that could affect real, and sustained change.

I’d blame the voters first. If enough Americans hadn’t been stupid enough to vote for Bush, the election wouldn’t have been close enough to be stolen in FL. Besides, Gore DID WIN even with Nader drawing progressive votes.

Ron Paul and Dennis Kucichich are good friends. They don’t agree on everything but they agree on the main issues and they are both honest. Just google “ron paul dennis kucichinch” and you can see video’s of them talking about one another.

I like Dennis. The only politician out there I believe and trust. I like a lot of what I’ve heard from Ralph Nader. Again, I can’t read Ron Paul although a few of my buddies campaigned for him real hard.

I will try anything, so long as it works!

Ron Paul and other Libertarians support big business and corporations. That’s what Libertarian means – most want to abolish government completely and let corporations rule our lives. They want even MORE of what has already ruined the planet and enslaved most of its people.

But Ron Paul and Mini-Me Paul are even worse. They are racists and don’t support women’s rights.

btw, thanks for asking.

He did not fire anyone because of these. Not immediately anyway. Your are either lying or listening to lies. An internet search that avoids Ron Paul fan sites will prove this easily.

Ron Paul ran this newsletter, he made money from it, it had his name on it and he claimed he never read it? The only people who buy into that are his sheep.

Nothing new here. Two dumb old men yelling how bad everyone else is and threatening to keep the kids’ balls if they ever come on to their property again. Those two deserve each other.

I’m in 100%. We don’t have capitalism here, we have crony capitalism. Paul and Nader recognize this as our real enemy.

These two men are far more similar than they are different. I consider them both icons and have voted for each one of them in previous elections.

I am 100% for this coalition. But it’s implementation needs to start now. Who would be the presidential nominee? vice president? would they run as independents or in one of the party primaries? these things need to be thought through.

But one thing is for sure. The message would be:

1. ending the wars
2. repealing the patriot act
3. auditing the fed
4. ending all corporate subsidies and bailouts

if we venture too far from those items, we would start having internal conflict.

The reality is that elephants will continue brushing aside Paul, and the donkeys kicking aside Nader, and Obama’s change is nothing more than more of the same from both the bubba and dubya years.
here today, here tomorrow …

The election was STOLEN! It did not matter if Nader ran or not because Bush was going win regardless. So instead of bitching about Nader blowing the election for Gore get pissed off at what really happened and that is the fraud election we had in 2000 (and 2004 while we are at it).

Hmm; opposites, really? They both focus their campaigns against democrats, not republicans.

you are wrong about ron paul. he is against all corporate subsidies and bail-outs. he favors making businesses compete against one another in a free market with no help from government. if you provide a good product to consumers, you stay in business. if you don’t, you fail.

you have ron paul confused with w bush and other neo-cons. the worst thing that ever happened to the free market is george bush and other neocons claiming they represent it.

Precisely. I do not know how many things some of the progressives in here think a President can do in a 4 year term. It is totally unrealistic to think Paul would get in and overnight eliminate Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. He has said time and time again that he would allow all of the people already in the system to stay in it but to offer an option to younger college age people a chance to opt out and invest their money elsewhere. How can that be evil? If they were elected, they could focus on about 4 to 7 major issues and none of them would eradicate the entitlement programs. We would see an increase in freedom and liberty, the legalization of marijuana, the repeal of the Patriot Act, the end of Guantanamo, the end of the fake war on terror, and a few other wonderful things.

compassion
intelligence
honesty
guts

Bush won because he lied in his campaign promises just like Obama…oh, that and Bush stole the election with the help of Harris and his brother Jeb in Florida. Bush, Cheney, and the Neo-Cons used 911 to cause all of the chaos we have seen since.

i’m all for a strong contender to the repubs and dems…i’ve always liked Nader, i like a lot of what Paul says, but i look at his son, and he has said a few scary things, and i wonder about him…but it’s not possible to agree with everyone 100% of the time…it will be interesting to see how this will gel…

Wow, mature name-calling and cursing. Nice. We probably agree on a broad range of topics and I do not wish to have any conflict with you. I just think Nader-Paul-Kucinich-Franken-Napolitano and a few others offer us a better path than Hillary-Obama-Romney-Palin of the Establishment oligarchy class which is totally owned by BP-the Military-Industrial Complex-Goldman Sachs-JP Morgan Chase, etc.

Barr has NOTHING to do with Ron Paul’s style of classical libertarianism nor Nader’s opposition to corporate power. Not a good move to try to associate them like that.

The two most principled Americans whose commitment is to the USA is finally getting the recognition they desserve.

Keep arguing their lies. GREAT JOB!!!!!!

SoCafe, you pick and choose what you want to believe, what you read, and what you think is right. You are just like the rest of the idiots in this country. You would re-crucify Jesus if he came back. You would imprison Mendela for 27 years again, and you most definitely will not be a part of the CHANGE in this Country either, because you sir, are completely oblivious to FACTS.

p.s. I’m still searching for a reputable source that says Paul actually wrote these things. Come on Socaf, since it’s so easy, why don’t you post some links?

The ‘free market’ isn’t free. It doesn’t work. Businesses will NEVER compete fairly and the larger they get the worse they treat their customers.

The problem with our government is that BUSINESS RUNS IT. It is their government, not ours.

Do your own research.

That’s what someone with any competence would do.

has Napolitano turned into jaba the hut? his head just smooths down to his shoulders.

Neither could win any national election, together or separately.

Like the right to choose? How is being anti-choice even Libertarian? He’s a religious fanatic and a threat to the social safety net. He’d let people starve and tell them to seek private charity. Paul also has freaky associates.

Hey, you’re the one who said Nader and Paul were better than me.

Based on nothing.

Playground Imbecile.

I think Ron should run in the republican primary again and Ralph should run in the democratic primary. That way both could get the message out. It is unlikely that either would win their respective primaries. Thus when the primaries are over, they unite as an independent party.

Both have strong grassroot supporters. We would have to get the message out through the internet and hit the college campuses hard. We would have to make sure that the paul/nader ticket have access to the final presidential debates.

It would be hard, but i think once people saw that it could be possible, more people would be willing to vote a third party.

Is Ralph Nader EVER critical of republicans? Ron Paul has been.

If FOX is messing with this you know its’ got to be con.

I agree with your last couple of statements. that is why the government should stop giving subsidies and bailouts to their big business friends.

just look all the big banks. in a true free market, we would have let them fail for all the mistakes they made. Citi, BofA and many others would have had to file bankruptcy.

No system is perfect. But in a free market, consumers have more power than they would in any other system. if business started making bad products because they got to big, the consumer could just stop buying from them.

The competitive market is the best form of all the unperfect systems.

Sounds to me like the Conservative-Liberal Democrat coalition disaster in the UK. Never work and not going anywhere.

do u have a better idea?

[...] The Raw Story: “In this corner, a libertarian, tea party hero who ran several campaigns as a candidate for US president on the Republican ticket. And in that corner, a progressive icon of the left who also ran several campaigns for the US presidency but on the Green Party ticket.” [...]

Well, the Establishment Right’s first early, early Straw Poll is out and of course the Establishmentarian Rightwinger Mitt Romney is first with Ron Paul second:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/weigel/archive/2011/01/22/romney-wins-new-hampshire-gop-straw-poll-ron-paul-comes-second.aspx
Romney is the obvious, and horrible, choice for the Establishment Right.

For starters, Ron and Rand Paul, live in two different political, and moral universes, and the Tea Baggers (Bachman, Demint) will follow their cult leaders, over any cliff, they want them to go over. I am sure Cheney is readying his Minot/Barskdale nuke right now. The Neocons are setting the stage, with more Iran rhetoric. We are in deep deep trouble.

For starters, Ron and Rand Paul, live in two different political, and moral universes, and the Tea Baggers (Bachman, Demint) will follow their cult leaders, over any cliff, they want them to go over. I am sure Cheney is readying his Minot/Barskdale nuke right now. The Neocons are setting the stage, with more Iran rhetoric. We are in deep deep trouble.

As a Ron Paul contributor, I like Nader or Kucinich. I would rather have honest men that I disagree with than the Lying Crap we have had for the last several administrations. You can nit pick anybody. An Alliance of honest people, is the Banksters worst fear.

As a Ron Paul contributor, I like Nader or Kucinich. I would rather have honest men that I disagree with than the Lying Crap we have had for the last several administrations. You can nit pick anybody. An Alliance of honest people, is the Banksters worst fear.

You might be correct IF we did not have limited resources or pollution. Corporations have already wrecked the planet. Much of our air and water are poisoned. Corporations have already proven themselves poor caretakers.

The pursuit of profit is a negligent way to care for the earth. If corporations were forced to pay for all the damage they have already done (which they should be) most all of them would go bankrupt.

You might be correct IF we did not have limited resources or pollution. Corporations have already wrecked the planet. Much of our air and water are poisoned. Corporations have already proven themselves poor caretakers.

The pursuit of profit is a negligent way to care for the earth. If corporations were forced to pay for all the damage they have already done (which they should be) most all of them would go bankrupt.

The racist newsletters had his name on them. He published them. He profited from them.

If he really didn’t know what was in them then he maybe he isn’t racist. But that would make him stupid as hell instead. Take your pick. A racist or an idiot.

And btw, Nelson Mandela is a SOCIALIST, like I am. And he was put into prison by racists like Ron Paul.

The racist newsletters had his name on them. He published them. He profited from them.

If he really didn’t know what was in them then he maybe he isn’t racist. But that would make him stupid as hell instead. Take your pick. A racist or an idiot.

And btw, Nelson Mandela is a SOCIALIST, like I am. And he was put into prison by racists like Ron Paul.

Sealing his criminal and military records helped too. Nothing stuck to that guy.

Sealing his criminal and military records helped too. Nothing stuck to that guy.

It could be a great buddy comedy.

It could be a great buddy comedy.

Just a fact check: Ron Paul ran once for President on the Libertarian ticket in 1988 and once as a Republican in 2004, not “several campaigns as a candidate for US president on the Republican ticket.”
At least Paul-Nader-Sanders can talk reasonably about the issues without the partisan BS we are seeing from the 2 establishment parties. It’s time for the Democrat-Republican duopoly to come to an end.
As Jesse Ventura once said, “A two party system is only half as bad as a one party system”. I disagree and would think it is just as bad if not worse as it give the illusion of choice and the illusion of hope and change.
eb

Just a fact check: Ron Paul ran once for President on the Libertarian ticket in 1988 and once as a Republican in 2004, not “several campaigns as a candidate for US president on the Republican ticket.”
At least Paul-Nader-Sanders can talk reasonably about the issues without the partisan BS we are seeing from the 2 establishment parties. It’s time for the Democrat-Republican duopoly to come to an end.
As Jesse Ventura once said, “A two party system is only half as bad as a one party system”. I disagree and would think it is just as bad if not worse as it give the illusion of choice and the illusion of hope and change.
eb

If Libertarians can accept the thesis of the environmental movement and the science that comes with it and that environmental regulation is absolutely necessary then there is hope for an alliance.

If Libertarians can accept the thesis of the environmental movement and the science that comes with it and that environmental regulation is absolutely necessary then there is hope for an alliance.

Ron Paul isn’t exactly anti predatory capitalist he still would deliver the sick to the health insurance companies.

Ron Paul isn’t exactly anti predatory capitalist he still would deliver the sick to the health insurance companies.

Yeah I guess you didn’t pay attention to who Ron was running against and who he’s been making speeches against.

Yeah I guess you didn’t pay attention to who Ron was running against and who he’s been making speeches against.

Ralph Nader stole all our 2000 votes and hid them in his secret underwater liar! Plus, Ron Paul is an insane racist who wants to kill us all in a nuclear fireball nightmare! Only Our President Obama can save us and you’re all stupid for not supporting and praising Him!

Ralph Nader stole all our 2000 votes and hid them in his secret underwater liar! Plus, Ron Paul is an insane racist who wants to kill us all in a nuclear fireball nightmare! Only Our President Obama can save us and you’re all stupid for not supporting and praising Him!

That pollution is not just from corporations. Society as a whole is lazy when it come to caring for the environment. But anytime a corporation pollutes, they can be subject to a law suit. People like Ralph Nader have been fighiting big corporations privately for a long time.

If you think pollution will go away just because we nationlize our industries or get rid of corporations, i would say you are mistaken.

That pollution is not just from corporations. Society as a whole is lazy when it come to caring for the environment. But anytime a corporation pollutes, they can be subject to a law suit. People like Ralph Nader have been fighiting big corporations privately for a long time.

If you think pollution will go away just because we nationlize our industries or get rid of corporations, i would say you are mistaken.

I will agree that environmental regulation, like no mountain top removal mining (you don’t shit where you live) is necessary. Do not confuse libertarians with tea-baggers! We don’t agree on the small things, but the BIG things need correcting.

I will agree that environmental regulation, like no mountain top removal mining (you don’t shit where you live) is necessary. Do not confuse libertarians with tea-baggers! We don’t agree on the small things, but the BIG things need correcting.

Shh let them have their fantasy that Gore was any better.

Shh let them have their fantasy that Gore was any better.

[...] [...]

I don’t see it full of Democrats against the war either…oh that’s right there’s no Republican President in charge.

I don’t see it full of Democrats against the war either…oh that’s right there’s no Republican President in charge.

why do you say that? ron paul is in favor of ending all the subsidies and managed health plans that benifit the health insurance industry so much.

yeah that seems to be working well..

most want to abolish government completely and let corporations rule our lives.

Corporations already rule our lives wake the hell up.

he’s not for single payer or medicare e for everyone.

Ron Paul has been critical of both parties. Fake progressive Ralph Nader not so.

yea, but that does not mean he is for the insurance industry. the insurance industry is powerful because they have partnered up with the government.

Dr. Paul believes in a free market system were no corporations or doctors recieve government help. Instead, they would be forced to compete against one another which would bring down prices and actually improve quality.

The problem is what happens to the poorest of our society. Dr. Paul believes that doctors have a moral obligation to provide care for those who cannot afford it. When he practiced medicine, he would workout payment plans and take other measures for those who could not afford it.

When I hear “Tea Party”, I think of Sarah Palin. I don’t even see RP as being connected to it.

the problem with the conservative-liberal coalition in the UK is that the liberals are bowing and scraping to the conservatives and getting nothing for it. They sold out plain and simple, it can work here if you have the leadership of Nader, Sanders and Paul. Then you would have the corporate dems and repubs running in fear.

Are you on crack? Nader is always critical of republicans. You needs to stop watching so much fox noise.

I would rather see them join forces and start a new 3rd party, lets face it alone they will get lost in the sea that is the 2 party system. Together they have at least a chance to really rally the independent thinkers and true Patriots of this country.

only because people like you say they can’t

Yeah, maybe they can replace the Repubs. The Repubs are just about out of gas. All they can think of doing is finding tricky ways to screw up health care. The Tea party is about to split with them anyway.

They got voted in because people were PO’d the DEMs didn’t do more for the economy and jobs so the first thing they do is ignore jobs and the economy.

They’re off to a terrible start at the same time Obama is taking away all the political momentum. They’re toast and Obama is the toaster.

Your an idiot, Nader has spoke out against republicans time and time again. The news only picks up on what he says when he rails against dems. Ron Paul has been very critical of the policies that have been instigated under republican rule. You need to pull your head out of your ass.

hey troll, go pander your right wing bs elsewhere

exactly right, the left has used the 2000 election to demonize Nader and turn his own people against him and the right well they are just owned outright by the corporations and the American people are too stupid to remember what it was like under republican rule.

And your the one who ripped into Nader in the first place with a very classless statement, what did you expect?

That’s what I said, dude…

“They want even MORE of what has already ruined the planet and enslaved most of its people. “

I appreciate your tone, Phill.
I’ll agree to disagree.

In Dickens’ novels many of the poor and infirm depended on the help of the generous wealthy and many of them spent their entire lives in the muck and mire at the bottom of London’s great pools of poverty.

The 19th century was a great time to be alive. There was no government help and there was no regulation of business; the environment was so dirty that people could barely breath some days.

I can’t wait to return to those halcyon days of early capitalism once again.

Bring it on!

Ron Paul is GOD!

Exactly in that order!!!

You obviously don’t understand how the Social Security System works. The people who are going to be drawing from the Social Security System in the future or those who are drawing from it now depend on the inputs, that is the current SS taxes, from those paying in today to finance their Social Security checks. If those future workers or some of the workers paying in now are allowed to opt out then the money to pay for the current and future retirees has to come from some where else, or those who are on Social Security will see their benefits cut.

There is no way that those who are joining the system can be allowed to opt out without making up that money from somewhere else. That is why, last week, Bernie Sanders was arguing at this forum that reducing the current Social Security tax for two years, as Obama has just instituted, was going to be the begining of the end of the Social Security System.

Yeah, once we get back to the Halcyon days of 19th century unregulated capitalism everything will be fine. That is why the Koch brothers are pushing for the same unregulated business environment that Ron Paul is pushing, because deep down inside they are really Square G humanitarians whose only desire is to save the world.

The old men are ganging up on you.
More parties to muddy the water with at a time when we need clarity,
The longer the process of real reform. This is a stalling tactic.

Let them retire and hand the world over to a younger generation.

“True Freedom and Liberty!”

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Ron Paul is GOD!

Old men playing statesmen. Good on them.
Do it on the weekends at the country club.
The future belongs to the young not the old.
Time to retire.

Who’s a pretty boy !

That is a very reasonable assessment.

That is a very reasonable assessment.

hahahahahahahahahahaha…

hahahahahahahahahahaha…

All these labels they create, confuse and distract us. What is a left libertarian?
It sounds like a bit of BS to me?

All these labels they create, confuse and distract us. What is a left libertarian?
It sounds like a bit of BS to me?

HAHAHAHHA. Anyone, I dunno, ask the liberals?

HAHAHAHHA. Anyone, I dunno, ask the liberals?

Some people are saying what a great humanitarian Ron Paul is and that he gives free medical care and suggest others do the same! How does that work in real life? What is exactly is Ron Paul doing personally for the 96 people who are currently awaiting transplant surgery in Arizona and can’t get it because the Governor there is today instituting the kind of draconian 19th century medical programs that have already resulted in the deaths of two people who needed those transplants and who were denied them?

Some people are saying what a great humanitarian Ron Paul is and that he gives free medical care and suggest others do the same! How does that work in real life? What is exactly is Ron Paul doing personally for the 96 people who are currently awaiting transplant surgery in Arizona and can’t get it because the Governor there is today instituting the kind of draconian 19th century medical programs that have already resulted in the deaths of two people who needed those transplants and who were denied them?

That belief comes from “Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” in the Constitution–specifically, the “life” bit. Dr. Paul is also an OBGYN.

And to be perfectly fair, Ron Paul takes a stand on this only as far as he has to. He normally says that it is a state’s rights issue.

That belief comes from “Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” in the Constitution–specifically, the “life” bit. Dr. Paul is also an OBGYN.

And to be perfectly fair, Ron Paul takes a stand on this only as far as he has to. He normally says that it is a state’s rights issue.

I don’t get the joke…

I don’t get the joke…

What do you mean, you can’t read him? He is crystal clear in his views and has voted upon those views for the entirety of his political life.

What do you mean, you can’t read him? He is crystal clear in his views and has voted upon those views for the entirety of his political life.

Progressives need to get organized on their own. I was there in the 60′s and 70′s. Worked fine then. We raised a whole lot of hell (and had a lot of fun, too). Whether it ended the war or had a role in bringing Nixon down, I don’t know, and there is probably know way to know for sure. But it maybe it did contribute. I like to think so anyway.

Progressives need to get organized on their own. I was there in the 60′s and 70′s. Worked fine then. We raised a whole lot of hell (and had a lot of fun, too). Whether it ended the war or had a role in bringing Nixon down, I don’t know, and there is probably know way to know for sure. But it maybe it did contribute. I like to think so anyway.

Ron Paul has discussed this issue to death. It was a ghost written piece that he did not have the opportunity to read before publishing. He is the furthest thing from a racist– against the war on drugs, for personal freedom and civil liberty. Believe me, I have heard as much Paul speech and rhetoric as anyone, and I have never heard anything that has been remotely racist.

Ron Paul has discussed this issue to death. It was a ghost written piece that he did not have the opportunity to read before publishing. He is the furthest thing from a racist– against the war on drugs, for personal freedom and civil liberty. Believe me, I have heard as much Paul speech and rhetoric as anyone, and I have never heard anything that has been remotely racist.

You’re a true moron.

You’re a true moron.

Just leave it to the young people. We’ll have plenty of time to save the world in between cell phone conversations, texting, masturbation, video chats, and posting on discussion boards. Don’t worry, we got it.

Just leave it to the young people. We’ll have plenty of time to save the world in between cell phone conversations, texting, masturbation, video chats, and posting on discussion boards. Don’t worry, we got it.

I’ll believe it when I see the Tea Partiers renounce their big bucks right-wing financial backers like the Koch Bros. and the rest of the people that Freedom Works, etc. are fronting for.

I’ll believe it when I see the Tea Partiers renounce their big bucks right-wing financial backers like the Koch Bros. and the rest of the people that Freedom Works, etc. are fronting for.

Well, let’s just let the government take care of everything. We won’t go broke, I promise. I myself can’t wait until people realize that it is impossible for the government to take care of everyone. People create wealth for a reason— normally because they are good businessmen and women. It is not exactly fair to assume that they should then give away that at the gun-barrel of the government.

Well, let’s just let the government take care of everything. We won’t go broke, I promise. I myself can’t wait until people realize that it is impossible for the government to take care of everyone. People create wealth for a reason— normally because they are good businessmen and women. It is not exactly fair to assume that they should then give away that at the gun-barrel of the government.

So Ron Paul is supposed to come out to Arizona and take care of that? Why don’t you deal with it? There are plenty of competent people in Arizona, I’m sure.

So Ron Paul is supposed to come out to Arizona and take care of that? Why don’t you deal with it? There are plenty of competent people in Arizona, I’m sure.

LOL, the health insurance giants wrote Obama’s healthcare bill. Wake up.

LOL, the health insurance giants wrote Obama’s healthcare bill. Wake up.

I don’t either. But, the movement did come out of his 2008 presidential bid. Unfortunately it has taken on a very different life of its own since that time.

I don’t either. But, the movement did come out of his 2008 presidential bid. Unfortunately it has taken on a very different life of its own since that time.

Disconcerting to see Nader align himself with the likes of a Ron Paul.

Disconcerting to see Nader align himself with the likes of a Ron Paul.

They are both idiots.
Ron Paul has failed to answer for the racist newsletters he published for over a decade. While Nader’s pig-headed vanity in 2000 put George W. in the White House.

They are both idiots.
Ron Paul has failed to answer for the racist newsletters he published for over a decade. While Nader’s pig-headed vanity in 2000 put George W. in the White House.

I get it! He couldn’t control the movement he started but he is completely capable of controlling the country, it must be all that “true freedom and liberty” stuff!

I get it! He couldn’t control the movement he started but he is completely capable of controlling the country, it must be all that “true freedom and liberty” stuff!

Yep. And I bet the Democratic issues platform is just the same today as when it started in 1828.

Yep. And I bet the Democratic issues platform is just the same today as when it started in 1828.

What is all this sh*t about “creating wealth”? I always thought money was something you earned! I get it; wealth is something that capitalists get from the profits from the sweat and hard work of others; money is the pittance the capitalists give those whose sweat and toil they exploit for their own gain.

What is all this sh*t about “creating wealth”? I always thought money was something you earned! I get it; wealth is something that capitalists get from the profits from the sweat and hard work of others; money is the pittance the capitalists give those whose sweat and toil they exploit for their own gain.

If these two can stop/reveal/slow the move to use American blood and treasure to fight for corporate profit, good!

If these two can stop/reveal/slow the move to use American blood and treasure to fight for corporate profit, good!

You don’t start at the top, my friend.

You don’t start at the top, my friend.

I get it. I also understand that it is severely underfunded and that I will not see any money from it.

I get it. I also understand that it is severely underfunded and that I will not see any money from it.

I’m uncertain if your post is irony or not. Anyhow, the 2000 election outcome resulted from the R-W Supreme Court deciding to select Bush Jr. by stopping the vote count in FL. Florida’s votes–if counted–would have elected Gore. Read the Supreme’s decision: “one time only-not to be a precedent–if counting continued it would have hurt Bush” This was the most outrageous outlawry in our nation’s history to date.

If you use the word “Halcyon” one more time, I will just lose it. Move to the United Kingdom and be happy. Please.

So is Ron Paul racist when he wants to end the war on drug because it’s incredibly discriminatory against minorities. A racist who defend the right to build a mosque near groundzero? A guy who voted to repeal dadt is obviously a huge bigot.He even defended Micheal Steele as the chairman of the RNC, when everyone wanted him fired for his remark on Obama’s war.
Ron Paul a racist? can you not be more ridiculous?

His history speaks for itself.
He has NEVER apologized for his racist past. All he has done is lied about his involvement and to blame others for his problems.
Your reasoning is far from rational and very close to nonsense.

What exactly is the ‘thesis’ of the environmental movement? That pollution exists?

Libertarians completely agree that any and all environmental damage should be paid for by those who created it. If you can prove the damage with science in court, then let’s charge all of the polluters with crimes and lawsuits. There is no need for legislation. If you can prove damage, away we go!

My biggest pet peeve about the so-called ‘environmental movement’ is that it never challenges the government for itself destroying the environment. For instance, why do oil companies have damage caps for spills? Why does the government subsidize roads and car companies (thereby encouraging some of the worst pollution). Why does the government subsidize junk mail? Etc etc.

Most libertarians are extremely sympathetic to environmentalism. But we believe that governments have created most of the problems in the first place, so we would like to see those causes removed first, before trying to patch them up by further punishing the people with taxes and regulations.

What you don’t get, is that it’s not about Ron Paul. It’s about his message: Peace and individual liberty. I’m sick and tired of those senseless wars. Can we agree on this subject and try to work together to stop them? This is the whole point of this video.

I have done my research. This supposed “racist” proof has about as much credibility in existence as the WMDs in Iraq.

This is about as interesting as Obama Girl having BasilMarceaux.com’s baby.

You see, you don’t get it. You Libertarians say prove it in court and then we will accept it but it is simple process to test the pollution that is making us all sick and then ban what causes harm to living organisms. This is a job better done by a government agency but libertarians have spent decades aiding and abetting the very corporate scum in the republican party that has murdered millions with industrial pollution.

Another point of contention is that Ron Paul doesn’t support a woman’s right of privacy between her and her doctor. (anti-choice.)

Good point. I’m sick of the wars too.

no shit !

i don’t think that is necessarily true. although ron himself is pro-life, he believes abortion should be decided by each state.

and its not that he does not support a womans right to privacy, it is more that he supports the childs right to life. at some point, the unborn child becomes life. when that happens, the woman no longer has the right to terminate that life.

i would agree that determining when life starts is extermely complex and that is way the abortion issue is tough one.

why do you say that?

they’re comming to take you away ah hah.

I would be happier with him if he believed abortion should be decided by each woman.

yeah like In Paris Hilton case,
she totally got her start on the bottom..
of some dude.

in your opinion, at what point does life begin for the child?

yeah especially because they focus on the real problems that both parties would rather ignore. Both parties know that once the majority of Americans unite they are done!
So they try their hardest to keep the dem and con game going and it works.
I think Americans are at a point now that they understand that neither party has their best interest at heart. But, I hope this progressive lib alliance isnt like Obama disappointing hope and change line.

because the corp media kissed war mongering gop butt.

yea, but they won’t get a chance to be heard in a debate. Not many people knew who ron paul was before he got on the debates in the republican primary. thats why i think they should run in the primaries and both spead the same message. that way they get alot more name recognition when they decide to go independent.

that is not how the SS program was supposed to work. it only works like that now because the politicians have borrowed money from the trust fund. ron paul has a plan to replinish the trust fund by ending the wars overeas. at that point, the SS funds would no longer be coming from younger generations. thus younger generations could opt out without effecting the solvency of the trust fund.

let’s give everyone a thorough sexual education class, free birth control mailed to their homes, repair the foster care/adoption systems, and then discuss the reduction of the abortion rate. yes, unborn children will die while those things improve, but making abortion illegal or difficult to obtain does not address the reasons that people have them, and will lead to higher rates of death from complications from illegal abortions, as well as more unwanted children,

Since one of your fellow “Ron Paul is God” travelers, Phill, posted this regarding health care and getting health care to the poor, although, most of the people needing transplants in Arizona were not poor or necessarily disadvantaged, until the lost their jobs from the diseased conditions of their organs making it impossible for them to work, and then lost their health insurance while they were waiting for transplants and now can pay for neither the transplant or the insurance, that “Dr. Paul believes that doctors have a moral obligation to provide care for those who cannot afford it. When he practiced medicine, he would workout payment plans and take other measures for those who could not afford it.

I just wondered if that “belief” in a moral obligation translated into any actual care for these people who are currently dying under the Republican health care plan in Arizona.

Since your cryptic and dismissive response indicates Ron Paul feels as do you, that he has no moral or other obligation to do anything about those people in Arizona, I think you should let your other fellow traveler, Phill, know this and disabuse him of his exaggerated assumptions about Dr. Ron Paul; that is explain to Phill that doctors actually have no moral or other obligation to do anything for the sick.

Are you actually drawing an analogy between 2 years and 173 years? If you are it is no wonder you think that 19th century capitalism is appropriate for America today, you are in that unfortunate half of the population whose IQs are less than 100!

implementing all the reforms you discussed would not stop all illegal abortions and unwanted children. however, every individual has the right to life. if unborn children are considered life, they have those same rights.

This is a false choice, one can eschew a two party system, which we actually don’t have, there have been numerous parties on the ballot for years and years, all kinds of parties, It’s just that most people usually vote for a candidate from one of the “major” parties, rather than vote for a candidate from one of the various other parties that they feel doesn’t have a genuine chance of being elected. The idea that one has to either vote for Ron Paul or one of the “major parties” is just plain ludicrous.

And the inclusion of Bernie Sanders in this group is equally disingenuous and ludicrous. I have donated to the campaigns of Bernie Sanders and he holds no truck with Austrian School economic models, None whatsoever! And your claiming so or mentioning his name as if he is somehow connected to these other two is blasphemy! And if all you mean is that he can talk about the issues then you should include Democrats and other who talk about the issues as well!

Your an idiot, Nader didn’t put Bush in the White House the voters did. Gore didn’t even carry his own state, did you watch him debate bush? He was pathetic. Also prove that those who voted for Nader would have voted at all. Such morons who make such simplistic arguments, the point is that race in 2000 should not have been remotely close the fact that it was proves how pathetic of a candidate Gore was. He went on to do some pretty great things in my view and the country got a bit of a wake up call under republican rule not enough of one clearly but Obama would never have been pres if bush hadn’t been first

Oh and btw your saying that only certain people should be allowed to run? What only democrats and republicans have the right to run? We supposedly live in a democracy and what you are advocating from the sounds of it is very undemocratic and might I say unamerican. Those who wish to run should do so without jackasses like yourself and others getting on their case about it… cause really next you have fascism. Case in point, my home state just relelected one of the people I dispise the most, Michelle Bachman. There was a 3rd party candidate who took votes from the democrate both in this last race and the one before, would the dem have won if he hadn’t run who knows? Do I begrudge him his right to run no I do not because I am not a whinny little bitch like you

Dr. Paul believes they have a moral obligation. I understand there is no acutal obligation. Dr. Paul lead by example and there are many others who do the same. For example, the Shriners hospital will turn down no child.

Your main assumption is that the government will be able to provide every health care procedure to everyone who needs it. That is not practical. Like everthing else, health care is scarce. I sincerely believe the free market coupled with private charity and pro bono work by doctors is the most efffecient way to deleiver helath care to the most amount of people.

What are you talking about? Where would SS funding come from, heaven? It is paid out of SS taxes, always been, will be.

Pig-headed vanity? It’s the same ideals the “progressives” are faulting Obama for not adhering to. This is just blind sourness.

Pig-headed vanity? It’s the same ideals the “progressives” are faulting Obama for not adhering to. This is just blind sourness.

i’ve participated in abortion for my own selfish needs at a given time in my life. after having a child and witnessing the stages of development, i find it very difficult to count backwards and determine when a child has no value as a human. utilize science and take a frigging birth control pill, take proactive responsibility instead of having a medical procedure to remove what may or may not be a life.

i’ve participated in abortion for my own selfish needs at a given time in my life. after having a child and witnessing the stages of development, i find it very difficult to count backwards and determine when a child has no value as a human. utilize science and take a frigging birth control pill, take proactive responsibility instead of having a medical procedure to remove what may or may not be a life.

Unless they take a pro union/small business approach to trade (syndicalism) then it could possibly work. It’s highly doubtful though.

Unless they take a pro union/small business approach to trade (syndicalism) then it could possibly work. It’s highly doubtful though.

I really hope they try to make something real out of it.

I really hope they try to make something real out of it.

Ron Paul, Ralph Nader agree on 'progressive-libertarian alliance ……

Here at World Spinner we are debating the same thing……

I’m not sure what kind of libertarians you’ve talked to, but you have a seriously warped view of libertarianism. If you’ll withhold your presuppositions for just a moment, I’ll try to elaborate.

I’m not saying prove it in court before we accept it. I’m saying that many of us ALREADY accept pollution as having caused damage. But we don’t JUST want to prevent future pollution, we want compensation from corporations for PAST pollution as well. In most cases, libertarians are some of the strongest proponents of environmentalism. If you truly believe that corporations have made you sick, why would you not seek prosecution? If ‘millions’ have been murdered, where is justice in mere regulation?

If somebody poisons you, do you forget about the person and try to ban the poison instead?

The bigger problem is that government is in bed with corporations, as both Mr. Nader and Mr. Paul understand. Yet you expect them to protect you from corporations? All you’ll get is some piece-meal regulation, likely with exemptions for corporations or with pre-thought loopholes (as in health-care). Government agencies monitor your water and air quality already. How is that going?

The unfortunate truth is that those who support government are actually complicit in the pollution themselves (as I pointed out above) as well as complicit in allowing corporations to pollute without punishment. It doesn’t matter which party you are, both are guilty.

I’m not sure what kind of libertarians you’ve talked to, but you have a seriously warped view of libertarianism. If you’ll withhold your presuppositions for just a moment, I’ll try to elaborate.

I’m not saying prove it in court before we accept it. I’m saying that many of us ALREADY accept pollution as having caused damage. But we don’t JUST want to prevent future pollution, we want compensation from corporations for PAST pollution as well. In most cases, libertarians are some of the strongest proponents of environmentalism. If you truly believe that corporations have made you sick, why would you not seek prosecution? If ‘millions’ have been murdered, where is justice in mere regulation?

If somebody poisons you, do you forget about the person and try to ban the poison instead?

The bigger problem is that government is in bed with corporations, as both Mr. Nader and Mr. Paul understand. Yet you expect them to protect you from corporations? All you’ll get is some piece-meal regulation, likely with exemptions for corporations or with pre-thought loopholes (as in health-care). Government agencies monitor your water and air quality already. How is that going?

The unfortunate truth is that those who support government are actually complicit in the pollution themselves (as I pointed out above) as well as complicit in allowing corporations to pollute without punishment. It doesn’t matter which party you are, both are guilty.

I’m going to make clear that I am happy these two working together; they are among the few non-bullshit public figures in the USA. But…it occurs to be that both of these guys are pretty damned old. So, when the inevitable happens, does that mean the country’s political landscape literally has no dissenting voices left?

I’m going to make clear that I am happy these two working together; they are among the few non-bullshit public figures in the USA. But…it occurs to be that both of these guys are pretty damned old. So, when the inevitable happens, does that mean the country’s political landscape literally has no dissenting voices left?

I do too.
Honestly, I would expect more from Nader than I did Obama because Nader has a history of progressive politics. Whereas, Obama had little political experience prior to becoming prez. Obama speaks about transparency whereas we can thank Nader for the FOIA.

I do too.
Honestly, I would expect more from Nader than I did Obama because Nader has a history of progressive politics. Whereas, Obama had little political experience prior to becoming prez. Obama speaks about transparency whereas we can thank Nader for the FOIA.

Government is socialist in nature. It comes into existence to protect and nurture the people under it’s care. The rulers, however, soon see government as a way to control people and reward themselves in the process.

The rise of Communist Russia and the US started a competition of ideology sent America to the far right. I don’t understand what libertarianism is. It sounds like a makey-uppy word with flags waving while liberty for the majority is lost. That is the standard rule I follow when I hear this US political doublespeak.

Australia had a blend of capitalism and socialism in the 70s that was excellent. Germany, England and most wealthy European countries have a blend of both.
Capitalism and socialism are not not enemies, but American propaganda over decades makes it appear so.

If your community wants to survive it must become community-minded. Do you think Eric Prince or Cheney gives a damn about your community?

Government is socialist in nature. It comes into existence to protect and nurture the people under it’s care. The rulers, however, soon see government as a way to control people and reward themselves in the process.

The rise of Communist Russia and the US started a competition of ideology sent America to the far right. I don’t understand what libertarianism is. It sounds like a makey-uppy word with flags waving while liberty for the majority is lost. That is the standard rule I follow when I hear this US political doublespeak.

Australia had a blend of capitalism and socialism in the 70s that was excellent. Germany, England and most wealthy European countries have a blend of both.
Capitalism and socialism are not not enemies, but American propaganda over decades makes it appear so.

If your community wants to survive it must become community-minded. Do you think Eric Prince or Cheney gives a damn about your community?

Kucinich/Paul ’12!

Kucinich/Paul ’12!

meaning what, exactly?

meaning what, exactly?

you don’t give a damn about racism, you just want to feel superior and whine. if you did, your only priorities would be stopping the invasions and the war on drugs.

you don’t give a damn about racism, you just want to feel superior and whine. if you did, your only priorities would be stopping the invasions and the war on drugs.

Well they’re not gonna win separately so …… why not?

Well they’re not gonna win separately so …… why not?

Nader didn’t put Bush in the White House the [Supreme Court] did [not the voters]

Nader didn’t put Bush in the White House the [Supreme Court] did [not the voters]

united we stand: divided we get Democratic Party corporatists and Republican fascists.

united we stand: divided we get Democratic Party corporatists and Republican fascists.

The people who want to keep us down want us to think we have to agree with someone on everything to work with them on anything.

However, disagreements are irrelevant if there are large areas of agreement. Coalitions have to unite around common platforms, and allow individuals to make their own decisions on divisive issues, or else we all end up divided against each other and powerless.

The people who want to keep us down want us to think we have to agree with someone on everything to work with them on anything.

However, disagreements are irrelevant if there are large areas of agreement. Coalitions have to unite around common platforms, and allow individuals to make their own decisions on divisive issues, or else we all end up divided against each other and powerless.

some people care more about ideological purity than actually achieving their any of their ideals…

some people care more about ideological purity than actually achieving their any of their ideals…

Swallow this pill. Women control reproduction and there ain’t nothin’ you can do about it except feel inferior as a man. Indeed, ALL females control reproduction in their species including asexual organisms where males don’t even exist or have yet to evolve. Females are the gods and we as individuals will decide whether to create or not create… But tell you what, I’ll give you 50% credit as a creator the next time I see a pregnant man. (— And women having sex change operations to become men don’t count.)

Swallow this pill. Women control reproduction and there ain’t nothin’ you can do about it except feel inferior as a man. Indeed, ALL females control reproduction in their species including asexual organisms where males don’t even exist or have yet to evolve. Females are the gods and we as individuals will decide whether to create or not create… But tell you what, I’ll give you 50% credit as a creator the next time I see a pregnant man. (— And women having sex change operations to become men don’t count.)

it means a lot of us will have to work harder to be heard.

write more, write often. get published. speak at public hearings. get arrested at high profile civil disobedience events. start now. keep organizing.

it means a lot of us will have to work harder to be heard.

write more, write often. get published. speak at public hearings. get arrested at high profile civil disobedience events. start now. keep organizing.

look here asshole, with your boring, unoriginal, and unsubstantiated attack on Nader:

i voted for Nader back in 2000 and you could hold a gun to my head and NOT change my vote.

you dumb motherfuckers need to realize that a whole lot of us were awake to the corporate sellouts at the DLC in the 90′s and there is no way that we were ever going to vote for that sellout Gore. if you wanted Gore to be president so bad you should have either worked harder for your candidate or organized a serious revolt over the Court decision. You just look like the bitter dipshit losers you are for blaming a real ACTIVIST and his ACTIVIST supporters for something you couch potato Dimocrat lovers failed to accomplish.

so take your do-nothing whining fucking attitude and shove it. Both parties are corporate puppets. Deal with it.

look here asshole, with your boring, unoriginal, and unsubstantiated attack on Nader:

i voted for Nader back in 2000 and you could hold a gun to my head and NOT change my vote.

you dumb motherfuckers need to realize that a whole lot of us were awake to the corporate sellouts at the DLC in the 90′s and there is no way that we were ever going to vote for that sellout Gore. if you wanted Gore to be president so bad you should have either worked harder for your candidate or organized a serious revolt over the Court decision. You just look like the bitter dipshit losers you are for blaming a real ACTIVIST and his ACTIVIST supporters for something you couch potato Dimocrat lovers failed to accomplish.

so take your do-nothing whining fucking attitude and shove it. Both parties are corporate puppets. Deal with it.

honestly, i think that a whole lot of women and men, explaining the importance of abortion as an issue of individual freedom, to Ron Paul and his followers, will actually have an impact.

I don’t think it would have an impact on what now constitutes the Tea Party and the GOP. But with Pauls people claiming the mantel of libertarianism, there is a chance to turn many of them around on this issue.

thanks for your brilliant comment.

honestly, i think that a whole lot of women and men, explaining the importance of abortion as an issue of individual freedom, to Ron Paul and his followers, will actually have an impact.

I don’t think it would have an impact on what now constitutes the Tea Party and the GOP. But with Pauls people claiming the mantel of libertarianism, there is a chance to turn many of them around on this issue.

thanks for your brilliant comment.

no, a group of cells does not have the automatic right to life. abortion is going to remain legal. deal with it. there are too many people here as it is, and there are way to many here growing up as sociopathic losers.

no, a group of cells does not have the automatic right to life. abortion is going to remain legal. deal with it. there are too many people here as it is, and there are way to many here growing up as sociopathic losers.

On military spending: David Stockman (Reagan’s budget director) was on Bill Maher this week and talked about this issue. As he put it, after major conflicts have ended in the past we demilitarized and invested the money formerly spent on defense in stuff for the US. That is how we built up after WWII for instance. When Soviet Union collapsed and the Cold War ended we did not scale back the military. We are still geared up to fight the last potential wars with Russia and China in an era when the enemy is a hand full of mad men living in caves.

There are much better – and much less expensive – ways to fight these modern conflicts – yet we are currently spending 60% of our budget on the military.

On military spending: David Stockman (Reagan’s budget director) was on Bill Maher this week and talked about this issue. As he put it, after major conflicts have ended in the past we demilitarized and invested the money formerly spent on defense in stuff for the US. That is how we built up after WWII for instance. When Soviet Union collapsed and the Cold War ended we did not scale back the military. We are still geared up to fight the last potential wars with Russia and China in an era when the enemy is a hand full of mad men living in caves.

There are much better – and much less expensive – ways to fight these modern conflicts – yet we are currently spending 60% of our budget on the military.

Yawn. Thanks for your vote for Joe Lieberman. You can be proud.

Yawn. Thanks for your vote for Joe Lieberman. You can be proud.

[...] Progressive Scan DVD Player for [...]

[...] Ron Paul, Ralph Nader agree on ‘progressive-libertarian alliance’ [...]

Paul/Nadar ’12 would encompass a greater number.

Paul/Nadar ’12 would encompass a greater number.

this is encouraging! bring kucinich into the mix and maybe REAL change will have a chance.
We need kick neo-cons out of government, there uncle tom in the white house also!

this is encouraging! bring kucinich into the mix and maybe REAL change will have a chance.
We need kick neo-cons out of government, there uncle tom in the white house also!

Meaning HayBoy does not really get it, for socialism to come into play millions upon millions of Americans would have to be put down. There are just too many people opposed to socialism and too many of those people are armed to the teeth to prevent it from occurring peacefully.

Meaning HayBoy does not really get it, for socialism to come into play millions upon millions of Americans would have to be put down. There are just too many people opposed to socialism and too many of those people are armed to the teeth to prevent it from occurring peacefully.

There are much younger folks that see thw world like Ron Paul and Ralph Nader.

For instance Gary Johnson

They have just not had enoigh press and most people are too lazy or stuck in time to shift their allegiance to younger guns. Moses lead to the promised land. But he did not go in.
Same thing for Ron Paul

There are much younger folks that see thw world like Ron Paul and Ralph Nader.

For instance Gary Johnson

They have just not had enoigh press and most people are too lazy or stuck in time to shift their allegiance to younger guns. Moses lead to the promised land. But he did not go in.
Same thing for Ron Paul

lol Paul answered the questions about those newsletters, you just did not like his answerers. They were published under his name, but not with his consent. The man who published the letters was no longer writing in the name of Ron Paul soon afterwards. Nader did not force Gore to not connect with the independent voter. If he had he would have won as easily as Obama did. Besides I am still one of the many who says, “Gore actually won that election.”

I like both of these guys; makes sense.

[...] this so-called “progressive-libertarian alliance” … anyone remember the st This was written by admin. Posted on Sunday, January 23, [...]

[...] this so-called “progressive-libertarian alliance” … anyone remember the [...]

Paul/Nader 2012

That is true. If a father kicks a pregnant woman in the stomach he is charged for manslaughter. Why is the same not for the mother? He wants the states to decide abortion. Not the Federal Govt.

Pure BS. No “self-proclaimed progressives” ever cheered on McCain.
McCain was always known as a seriously intemperate SOB, as co-author
of a BS “Campaign Reform Bill” that allowed national money to over-ride
local funding, etc. HayBOy345 is either off his meds, or – worse – is a
Democrat pretending otherwise.

[...] Provincial Survey and Design Association project will work in the member units promote the use of Alliance products, continue to support the domestic CAD [...]

It may sound affected, but in fact it’s true. Michel Foucault was one of the most profound thinkers in the second half of the Twentieth Century. His book, “The Order Of Things” (“Les Mots Et Les Choses”) shows how European thinking underwent a tectonic shift that no one else had noticed, 1650-1660 AD. They went from a medieval mindset to rationalism, and didn’t recognize it. He also puts Marxism into context as just part of the broader and more profound era of humanism. Generally, after you read Foucault, you have amuch deeper understanding of what you thought were stereoypical words. His Wiki bio is a fairly balanced view of a complex thinker.

This nonsense gets right to the heart of the sick illusions that separates the left and the right. Free markets can only exist with regulation; otherwise they always fall into a monopoly. Marx explained that and later so did other analysts. If you don’t use market mechanisms to enforce the needs of the larger society, then the only alternative is the police. Which is more transparent and less susceptible to corruption ? Not the police! As for how the market is regulated or the police are directed to enforce which laws, that’s where Democracy or a Republic or a Central Committee or DIrect Action Anarchy becomes relevant.

[...] could lead to prosecution (or threats of prosecution).~Strange bedfellows? Ron Paul and Ralph Nader form a progressive-libertarian alliance?~Justice Scalia, unlike so many that have come before him, seems to enjoy destroying the credibility [...]

yep, Paul, Nader, Sanders, Kucinich… might be a few others IDK Franken is pretty good to fighting back against the FCC BS

yep I watched the show also, I have never agreed with a republican (former?) more than with that guy.

well they better do it quick, they are both getting on in the years. Nader is 76 and Paul is 75. I remember how much crap people were giving Mclame for being old and I am not saying they don’t have it because of their age but lets face it the older you get the more likely you are to have the kind of mental instability issues that Mclame has.

wow I should have totally read your post before I posted mine, heh didn’t even notice. We still have people like Kucinich and Sanders who aren’t as old plus there are some younger guys like Franken and Grayson. I haven’t heard of any bad dirt on those 2 but if people know of any I would like to be informed about it as Franken is my senator from the great (mostly great) state of MN, sadly we still re-elected the super nutcase Michelle Bachman and for that as a Minnesotan I would like to apologize to the rest of the country even though I do not live in her district she is an embarrasment to all Minnesotans.

Well if that were to happen you take the super right wing gun sucking nutbags who try to do violence to innocent people and well remove them from a civilized society, maybe give them Kentucky or something where they can have fun with their guns. Oh and then built a electric fence around Kentucky, hey they want to protect their boarders right?

[...] ~Strange bedfellows? Ron Paul and Ralph Nader form a progressive-libertarian alliance? [...]

Take an Econ class. Wealth and Money aren’t the same thing. Wealth creation is making the pie bigger. As is the case with almost all others with similar ideologies o yours, you obviously don’t understand that wealth creation in an economy is *not a zero sum game*! Assuming that you do no intend on investigating for yourself any concepts an intellectual opponent brings up I will explain that this means that one economic actor’s gain must not necessarily mean another’s loss.
If not for those evil capitalists that created the opportunity for the wage earners to earn a living, they would still be hunting-gathering. The pie is bigger, but lazy people are never satisfied with their lot no matter how big it is. It is relative, not absolute income which matters so much to you.

My college degree is in environmental science and the industry of sustainability and I am a libertarian. I believe that environmental degradation is something that should be protected against using the court system. I concur with Mises Canada that you should investigate the cause of your strange view of libertarian thought and it’s adherents. I often wonder where these canards come from.

That’s how it is, yes. But do you agree that this is how it ought to be?

I’d vote for them over Obama.

I’d vote for them over Obama.

HayBoy, Devil is not a monoglot – she is a highly intelligent and well-informed and well-read person who has no need for affectation. She speaks French and English superbly and maybe other languages too.

HayBoy, Devil is not a monoglot – she is a highly intelligent and well-informed and well-read person who has no need for affectation. She speaks French and English superbly and maybe other languages too.

All I will say is that he has apologized for what was published in his name, but he hasn’t taken responsibility for the beliefs himself, because they are Not His Beliefs! You are more interested in parroting your preconceived notions than updating them when they are obviously wrong.
When, and why, facts backfire:
http://mobile.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2010/07/11/how_facts_backfire/?page=full

All I will say is that he has apologized for what was published in his name, but he hasn’t taken responsibility for the beliefs himself, because they are Not His Beliefs! You are more interested in parroting your preconceived notions than updating them when they are obviously wrong.
When, and why, facts backfire:
http://mobile.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2010/07/11/how_facts_backfire/?page=full

Cute statement, but not relevant here

Cute statement, but not relevant here

IF you have ever seen these supposed racist newsletter, why don’t you post the URL’s where we can see them ? Otherwise, you are just a noisemaker. “Do your own research” is a valid reply when the topic is broad and peope need to go educate themselves, but here, it’s a question of the existence or non-existence of a small set of documents.

In any case, what matters is Ron Paul’s message rather than the man himself. I suspect Socialist CafeDOTcom knows the message is what matters too, and that’s why he’s not wasting his time trying to find documents that may not exist.

IF you have ever seen these supposed racist newsletter, why don’t you post the URL’s where we can see them ? Otherwise, you are just a noisemaker. “Do your own research” is a valid reply when the topic is broad and peope need to go educate themselves, but here, it’s a question of the existence or non-existence of a small set of documents.

In any case, what matters is Ron Paul’s message rather than the man himself. I suspect Socialist CafeDOTcom knows the message is what matters too, and that’s why he’s not wasting his time trying to find documents that may not exist.

Yes, and Deleuze and Guattari also, “Anti-Oedipus” for instance. Foucault’s works are translated to English and are widely available here.

Yes, and Deleuze and Guattari also, “Anti-Oedipus” for instance. Foucault’s works are translated to English and are widely available here.

Left libertarian is the label now used to describe what was once called classical liberal, with minor differences.

Left libertarian is the label now used to describe what was once called classical liberal, with minor differences.

Yes, that regulation being the rule of law. And of course a debt based money system as we have here in the US can never be called free market.

Yes, that regulation being the rule of law. And of course a debt based money system as we have here in the US can never be called free market.

I’ve tried to work with the local Ron Paul “supporters” and I have to agree that it’s hard. Like most “political” people, their motivation is often just to getname recognition. BUT who else are we going to work with ? The people who don’t care are harder to reach than the most egotistical Ron Paul supporters. Also, the “left” has more than its share of stupidities, and in practical terms, those stupidities are more likely to get fixed in honest frank dialogue with the right-wingers who aren’t captives of Faux Noose.

I’ve tried to work with the local Ron Paul “supporters” and I have to agree that it’s hard. Like most “political” people, their motivation is often just to getname recognition. BUT who else are we going to work with ? The people who don’t care are harder to reach than the most egotistical Ron Paul supporters. Also, the “left” has more than its share of stupidities, and in practical terms, those stupidities are more likely to get fixed in honest frank dialogue with the right-wingers who aren’t captives of Faux Noose.

Very ugly comment HayBoy – you are appearing more and more ignorant to me.

Very ugly comment HayBoy – you are appearing more and more ignorant to me.

So what does a socialist say to a Russel Means, who in 1982 pointed out that the so-called socialist countries polluted every bit as badly as the capitalist countries ?
If you disagree, then why ? Respect for the planet and our descendents’ future is certainly part of a truly viable politics.

So what does a socialist say to a Russel Means, who in 1982 pointed out that the so-called socialist countries polluted every bit as badly as the capitalist countries ?
If you disagree, then why ? Respect for the planet and our descendents’ future is certainly part of a truly viable politics.

If you were a chicken, you’d be peckable.

If you were a chicken, you’d be peckable.

I probably would too, but after agreeing that corporatism is bad, it’s gonna be a real fight again. I mean, dismantling Social Security, Medicare and the department of Education is going to be a big non-starter for me.

I probably would too, but after agreeing that corporatism is bad, it’s gonna be a real fight again. I mean, dismantling Social Security, Medicare and the department of Education is going to be a big non-starter for me.

Sorry, Mr. ericoded, I didn’t recognize your achievements. If they measure up to either a Ron Paul or a Ralph Nader, then please let us know. Otherwise you are trying to practice what is called “levelling”, where every dumbass is not only entitled to his opinion, but where all the dumbasses try to claim their unfounded opinions are as valid as everyone elses. Levelling is a problem on the left, and it’s a problem on the libertarian right. Better to practice an enlightened elitism, where achievements are respected and opinions have to stand the tests of logic, etc.

Sorry, Mr. ericoded, I didn’t recognize your achievements. If they measure up to either a Ron Paul or a Ralph Nader, then please let us know. Otherwise you are trying to practice what is called “levelling”, where every dumbass is not only entitled to his opinion, but where all the dumbasses try to claim their unfounded opinions are as valid as everyone elses. Levelling is a problem on the left, and it’s a problem on the libertarian right. Better to practice an enlightened elitism, where achievements are respected and opinions have to stand the tests of logic, etc.

This is a Democrat Party lie. The truth is that the Democrat Party, at the very top, took a dive. In 2000, the top Demonrat operatives refused to contest the stolen Florida election. That’s a fact and you should know it ! Moreover, Nader got people to vote who would have stayed home, and – something we forget too easily – Nader pulled almost as many votes away from Bush as he did from Gore. In 2004, Kerry was a hawk, promising on his website from Feb. 2004 on, that he would *increase* US troops in Iraq by 44,000. So Kerry was a warmonger. There are other facts which show Kerry’s true colors, but that’s enough right there.

This is a Democrat Party lie. The truth is that the Democrat Party, at the very top, took a dive. In 2000, the top Demonrat operatives refused to contest the stolen Florida election. That’s a fact and you should know it ! Moreover, Nader got people to vote who would have stayed home, and – something we forget too easily – Nader pulled almost as many votes away from Bush as he did from Gore. In 2004, Kerry was a hawk, promising on his website from Feb. 2004 on, that he would *increase* US troops in Iraq by 44,000. So Kerry was a warmonger. There are other facts which show Kerry’s true colors, but that’s enough right there.

The abortion debate is clearly one that will not soon be resolved because there are principled positions and people on both sides. However, I would hope that even the most adamant among the pro-choice side would recognize that Ron Paul is not the enemy of women, or their fundamental rights and dignity as human beings. To the contrary, this wonderful and caring gentleman has demonstrated a longstanding commitment to the needs of women, especially but not exclusively in regards to their health and well being. Among other things he has, in the course of his long career as an OB/GYN, assisted innumerable women, delivering over 4,000 babies. That number is itself an astonishing achievement and clearly evidences a person who cherishes and values women, and children. Can any potential candidate, of either gender, point to such a longstanding commitment and service to women? His concern with abortion is rooted in his experience as a physician and his libertarian ethic of non-violence, especially against the defenceless. Yet, true to his libertarian nature, he does not advocate an authoritarian solution, as some of the pro-life community do. Women should not fear Ron Paul. He is their ally, and the ally of all those who need to be heard.

The abortion debate is clearly one that will not soon be resolved because there are principled positions and people on both sides. However, I would hope that even the most adamant among the pro-choice side would recognize that Ron Paul is not the enemy of women, or their fundamental rights and dignity as human beings. To the contrary, this wonderful and caring gentleman has demonstrated a longstanding commitment to the needs of women, especially but not exclusively in regards to their health and well being. Among other things he has, in the course of his long career as an OB/GYN, assisted innumerable women, delivering over 4,000 babies. That number is itself an astonishing achievement and clearly evidences a person who cherishes and values women, and children. Can any potential candidate, of either gender, point to such a longstanding commitment and service to women? His concern with abortion is rooted in his experience as a physician and his libertarian ethic of non-violence, especially against the defenceless. Yet, true to his libertarian nature, he does not advocate an authoritarian solution, as some of the pro-life community do. Women should not fear Ron Paul. He is their ally, and the ally of all those who need to be heard.

Transparency ? Obama’s Attorney-General just killed the First Amendment. Check out the Supreme Court ruling: Holder vs. Humanitarian Law Project.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holder_v._Humanitarian_Law_Project

Habeas Corpus is deader under Obama who has publicly authorized the extra-judicial killing of US citizens, provided he slaps the label of “terrorist” on them. By contrast, Bush had them killed without the publicity or the legal precedent.

Transparency ? Obama’s Attorney-General just killed the First Amendment. Check out the Supreme Court ruling: Holder vs. Humanitarian Law Project.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holder_v._Humanitarian_Law_Project

Habeas Corpus is deader under Obama who has publicly authorized the extra-judicial killing of US citizens, provided he slaps the label of “terrorist” on them. By contrast, Bush had them killed without the publicity or the legal precedent.

yes, but there is supposed to be a trust fund that does not get touched. in other words, lets i work 40 years and pay into SS all my life. That money is supposed to go into the SS trust fund gaining interest to be there for me when i retire. i am not supposed to collect from younger workers. there money should be for them.

However, the politicians have dipped their hands in that trust fund to spend on other issues such as war. Paul wants to end the military spending and take that money and REPLINISH the SS trust fund. that way, everybody pays for themselves. so if you want to stay in the program you can. if you want to opt out, you can.

yes, but there is supposed to be a trust fund that does not get touched. in other words, lets i work 40 years and pay into SS all my life. That money is supposed to go into the SS trust fund gaining interest to be there for me when i retire. i am not supposed to collect from younger workers. there money should be for them.

However, the politicians have dipped their hands in that trust fund to spend on other issues such as war. Paul wants to end the military spending and take that money and REPLINISH the SS trust fund. that way, everybody pays for themselves. so if you want to stay in the program you can. if you want to opt out, you can.

You need to read up on the Koch brothers. They love government regulation when it puts money in their pockets.

A People’s History of Koch Industries: How Stalin Funded the Tea Party Movement
http://exiledonline.com/a-peoples-history-of-koch-industries-how-stalin-funded-the-tea-party-movement/

Charles & David Koch are Closetcase Subsidy Kings Who Milk Government Tyranny
http://exiledonline.com/a-people-history-of-koch-industries-part-ii-libertarian-billionaires-charles-and-david-koch-are-closetcase-subsidy-kings-who-milk-big-government-tyranny-but-want-to-slash-spending-on-anyone-else/

Wrong. The US Government borrowed from the SS trust fund to pay for other government operations. At the time they promised to put the money back. The lying corporate media wants us to forget that, as do the Democrats and Republicans.

It’s a guaranteed lost to go rope-a-dope with the duopoly in the money-saturated primaries. By the time the primaries are over, it’s about 2 years too late. Any 2012 with a hope of success has to start RIGHT NOW. Better to run as independents or on third, fourth parties and go straight to the people. The corporate media will be deprived of “momentum” buzz and the issues will come to the front.

The Lib-Dems got shown as pure liars when they reneged on their *written promise” to their voters to not raise student fees. The Conservatives, like the Labour Party, were long known to be complete disinterested in the truth or democracy.

That’s a totally different situtation than a left-right bridging here in the US.

The Lib-Dems got shown as pure liars when they reneged on their *written promise” to their voters to not raise student fees. The Conservatives, like the Labour Party, were long known to be complete disinterested in the truth or democracy.

That’s a totally different situtation than a left-right bridging here in the US.

There are five major carcinogens in every breath you take no matter where you are breathing in America. This was proven by an EPA study that was suppressed by the Clinton administration in the 90s and still hasn’t been released.

This is an example of a government dept. working perfectly according to the mandate it was given but then being subverted by the executive branch. So it’s a little more complicated than just saying that government is the problem.

Another suppressed study showed the path of the Chernobyl fallout spread almost perfectly evenly across the northern hemisphere creating a marked increase in illness amongst the general population.

According to the EPA there are 1200 neurotoxins in the air that are completely unregulated and not tested for as a result. Not to mention the nuclear industry that pollutes with impunity.

Now if you were to say that the US has been a military dictatorship since the invention of nuclear bomb and the radical expansion of the military industrial complex and that the corporate sector has cozied up so tight with them that the corporations have taken on a marshall stance toward the public as being expendable and that when the public dies from pollution that the corporations and the military cause, that is seen as acceptable collateral damage, then I would agree with you.

There are many good people in government doing lots of good work but is destroyed by the political process.

If you were to focus on the rigged electoral process in America, Electronic Jim Crow voting machines and scrubbing voter lists of legitimate voters instead of just government as being our biggest problem I would agree with you that corporations are rigging these elections and taking over the government for there own benefit.

But until the Libertarian political movement gets real specific on the details of their general policy statements no one in the general public will trust them as Libertarians are to often seen associated with the very corporate and military sponsored politicians in the Republican party.

Now, so-called progressives are just as guilty of letting their own political leadership off the hook when it comes to military and corporate control of our tax dollars but the reason the public keeps voting for the Dems is that the social programs that have been put in place by the Dems over the decades keeps their base loyal to them. Any attempt by anyone to dismantle those programs will be met with political aggression.

So in the end the free market that the Libertarians dream of has to be regulated into place in order to prevent economic monopolies from forming that inevitably take over the government, monopolize the electoral process and appoint judges in order prevent competitors with good ideas from rising up in public favor.

I had a friend of mine ask Ron Paul on national TV if he would favor regulation to prevent economic monopolies from forming and Ron Paul said he would favor that kind of regulation.

I think that it is possible for Libertarians and Progressives to form an alliance but a vigorous public debate between both political communities must take place in order for the policy platform to be fleshed out so that such an alliance can win public trust and their individual donations.

There are five major carcinogens in every breath you take no matter where you are breathing in America. This was proven by an EPA study that was suppressed by the Clinton administration in the 90s and still hasn’t been released.

This is an example of a government dept. working perfectly according to the mandate it was given but then being subverted by the executive branch. So it’s a little more complicated than just saying that government is the problem.

Another suppressed study showed the path of the Chernobyl fallout spread almost perfectly evenly across the northern hemisphere creating a marked increase in illness amongst the general population.

According to the EPA there are 1200 neurotoxins in the air that are completely unregulated and not tested for as a result. Not to mention the nuclear industry that pollutes with impunity.

Now if you were to say that the US has been a military dictatorship since the invention of nuclear bomb and the radical expansion of the military industrial complex and that the corporate sector has cozied up so tight with them that the corporations have taken on a marshall stance toward the public as being expendable and that when the public dies from pollution that the corporations and the military cause, that is seen as acceptable collateral damage, then I would agree with you.

There are many good people in government doing lots of good work but is destroyed by the political process.

If you were to focus on the rigged electoral process in America, Electronic Jim Crow voting machines and scrubbing voter lists of legitimate voters instead of just government as being our biggest problem I would agree with you that corporations are rigging these elections and taking over the government for there own benefit.

But until the Libertarian political movement gets real specific on the details of their general policy statements no one in the general public will trust them as Libertarians are to often seen associated with the very corporate and military sponsored politicians in the Republican party.

Now, so-called progressives are just as guilty of letting their own political leadership off the hook when it comes to military and corporate control of our tax dollars but the reason the public keeps voting for the Dems is that the social programs that have been put in place by the Dems over the decades keeps their base loyal to them. Any attempt by anyone to dismantle those programs will be met with political aggression.

So in the end the free market that the Libertarians dream of has to be regulated into place in order to prevent economic monopolies from forming that inevitably take over the government, monopolize the electoral process and appoint judges in order prevent competitors with good ideas from rising up in public favor.

I had a friend of mine ask Ron Paul on national TV if he would favor regulation to prevent economic monopolies from forming and Ron Paul said he would favor that kind of regulation.

I think that it is possible for Libertarians and Progressives to form an alliance but a vigorous public debate between both political communities must take place in order for the policy platform to be fleshed out so that such an alliance can win public trust and their individual donations.

“Socialist” is a broad term. Just as with most other political designations. I’m a socialist who agrees with Means. But I (and Means) also note that, historically, Native American tribes have been run ‘socialistically’.

“Socialist” is a broad term. Just as with most other political designations. I’m a socialist who agrees with Means. But I (and Means) also note that, historically, Native American tribes have been run ‘socialistically’.

[...] więcej: Ron Paul, Ralph Nader agree on 'progressive-libertarian alliance … Tags: brandon, brandon-gray, has-potential, ludovic, mentioned-on-twitter, others-postdrop, [...]

You seem to be the only one who questions if they exist. The other Ron Paul supporters know they exist. That is not their argument. Their argument is that although they carry his name he did not write them.

The fact that you do not even acknowledge their existence speaks loads.

You seem to be the only one who questions if they exist. The other Ron Paul supporters know they exist. That is not their argument. Their argument is that although they carry his name he did not write them.

The fact that you do not even acknowledge their existence speaks loads.

Have to disagree on this one. IMO, Deleuze & Guattari are intellectual frauds. Circa 1975, some of my French friends were all ga-ga over “Anti-Oedipus”. I read it in English translation and got nothing from it. Foucault’s “The Order Of Things” suffers from a very French way of thinking (e.g. “in that space, they …” where space refers to a whole field of thought) and it only went into English print after the publisher got frustruated with 4 or 5 not-very-good translations. So a fluent reader gets something from reading Foucault in French. But there is no such salvation for “Anti-Oedipe”; it was word-salad diarrhea and I doubt the sincerity of its authors. Part of how the hopes of May ’68 died, was that increasingly people were unable to distinguish the authentic important stuff from the scribblings of posers – or worse, the people didn’t even care to make the effort to distinguish.

Have to disagree on this one. IMO, Deleuze & Guattari are intellectual frauds. Circa 1975, some of my French friends were all ga-ga over “Anti-Oedipus”. I read it in English translation and got nothing from it. Foucault’s “The Order Of Things” suffers from a very French way of thinking (e.g. “in that space, they …” where space refers to a whole field of thought) and it only went into English print after the publisher got frustruated with 4 or 5 not-very-good translations. So a fluent reader gets something from reading Foucault in French. But there is no such salvation for “Anti-Oedipe”; it was word-salad diarrhea and I doubt the sincerity of its authors. Part of how the hopes of May ’68 died, was that increasingly people were unable to distinguish the authentic important stuff from the scribblings of posers – or worse, the people didn’t even care to make the effort to distinguish.

It’s part of our suppressed history that there were many parties in the era after the Civil War, up to 1898, and most of these parties focused on creating better monetary systems.

It’s part of our suppressed history that there were many parties in the era after the Civil War, up to 1898, and most of these parties focused on creating better monetary systems.

They should run their campaign from inside a secure bunker…

They should run their campaign from inside a secure bunker…

Haha, well there are obvious exceptions. I would keep in mind though that somewhere along the line, an individual in the family did truly begin at the bottom and worked his way up to the top, thereby saving money for the family which has been passed along. I’ll bet that person worked very hard to do so. But, I can appreciate your comment.

Haha, well there are obvious exceptions. I would keep in mind though that somewhere along the line, an individual in the family did truly begin at the bottom and worked his way up to the top, thereby saving money for the family which has been passed along. I’ll bet that person worked very hard to do so. But, I can appreciate your comment.

The fact that a prozionisrt commentor on this topic is calling Ron Paul God as well as questioning his integrity and slandering his name is proof that Dr. Paul represents an awakening amongst Americans whose primary allegiance and loyalty is unquestionable and does hold two passports one that says USA and the name of the other country is left to the readers conclusion.

The fact that a prozionisrt commentor on this topic is calling Ron Paul God as well as questioning his integrity and slandering his name is proof that Dr. Paul represents an awakening amongst Americans whose primary allegiance and loyalty is unquestionable and does hold two passports one that says USA and the name of the other country is left to the readers conclusion.

So you think Ron Paul is a stooge? He allowed his name to be used and he didn’t even bother to check on what was being written? That he profited from the newsletters but didn’t care what was in them?

Okay. He’s a stooge. Nyuk… nyuk…

So you think Ron Paul is a stooge? He allowed his name to be used and he didn’t even bother to check on what was being written? That he profited from the newsletters but didn’t care what was in them?

Okay. He’s a stooge. Nyuk… nyuk…

Ron Paul is the greatest champion of peace the U.S. Congress has ever seen. Even if the newsletters were as bad as the hysterics say, how could some insensitive language possibly compare to actually killing brown people by the boatload? What a bizarre society we live in.

Ron Paul is the greatest champion of peace the U.S. Congress has ever seen. Even if the newsletters were as bad as the hysterics say, how could some insensitive language possibly compare to actually killing brown people by the boatload? What a bizarre society we live in.

HayBoy,

You’re not saying anything substantial. I just started a web design company. I am 23 years old. I am working hard to establish myself and this business– to make money so that I can responsibly take care of myself and a future family.

I will certainly admit that my parents helped me greatly along the way. But my father never went to college. He started and now operates a very successful residential construction company. And, he started with very little.

It is now my firm belief and conviction that I should try my best not to need the government or government handouts. I am doing my damnedest to stand on my own. When I do have some real money, I’ll be more than happy to do my part in educating others on the industry so that they may be self-sufficient in the future as well.

HayBoy,

You’re not saying anything substantial. I just started a web design company. I am 23 years old. I am working hard to establish myself and this business– to make money so that I can responsibly take care of myself and a future family.

I will certainly admit that my parents helped me greatly along the way. But my father never went to college. He started and now operates a very successful residential construction company. And, he started with very little.

It is now my firm belief and conviction that I should try my best not to need the government or government handouts. I am doing my damnedest to stand on my own. When I do have some real money, I’ll be more than happy to do my part in educating others on the industry so that they may be self-sufficient in the future as well.

You’re right.
The big difference is that Nader works towards an end to capitalism – whether he realizes it, or wants it, or not. The regulations he would strap on businesses would prevent their monstrous profits from being used for propaganda and the corruption of the political system.
In a nation where conservative Obama is considered a liberal, Nader is about as far left as we can get right now.

This is simply not true, The first benefits were paid in the form of lump sum payments in the same year that the first taxes were assessed. There was never a time in the history of Social Security when there was a collection of funds that there was not also a payment of benefits. The social security act was amended but that amendment generally opened the way for the coverage of a larger group of individuals, namely minorities and women than were effectively covered in the first act which excluded the kinds of labor that these workers generally were employed in. You are mainly acting as a conduit for a false promise. The trust fund is not financed by the general tax revenues. It is financed by FICA taxes. Ending the war in Afghanistan is not going to enhance the Social Securioty fund.

The fund collects money and then loans that money to the government at the current bond rate. This is the safest most fiscally astute possible investment for those funds. That is why it appears to some and why some can argue that the government is “robbing” the Social Security fund, not true, imagine what those same people would say if that money weren’t making any interest at all; they would be grousing about that just as loudly.

The idea that there is a better place to invest your money and that better investment is the stock market is fanciful, just talk to anyone who had to retire when their 401k’s got stripped to the minimum in the last stock market tumble. It is an idea that has been driven by Wall Street and the bankers who want their hands on that Social Security Trust Fund. And it is being taken up by suckers who are stupid enough to believe that housing prices will never go down, stock markets always go up, and that everyone in America can become a millionaire.

Nope. I am simply stating that parties and platforms have a tendency to change. It doesn’t matter how long it has been. New people join the conversation and party– new ideas emerge. It has nothing to do with being capable of controlling something. How could one person control a movement like that?

Hmmmm, this is beginning to look like a republican plan to run a 4th candidate to try and overcome the loss of republican votes to a tea party 3rd candidate.

Its like I have always said: Work on what we can agree on and on the things we can’t get a consensus on we have to just drop as issues, we can’t get everything we want.

These two guys are just two more guys proving that the current Left/Right Paradigm is a hoax and true partisanship that is designed to serve the people can be achieved. Paul has it right when he says the partisanship in congress is geared toward the status quo and “NOT” the people. Dr. paul once coined a great phrase…The Dempublicans and the Republicrats.

A Progressive-Libertarian allegiance? The Libertarian guys are schizophrenic and should never have executive power. I want a Progressive-Central allegiance. Actually, I thought electing Obama would accomplish that. Wrong. We need to replace him with someone like Howard Dean and try again.

“several campaigns as a candidate for US president on the Republican ticket.”

???

Dr. Paul ran ONCE as a Republican in 2008 and once as a Libertarian in 1988.

I mean, c’mon Diebenow, if you can’t even get the first sentence right, what does that say about your integrity and the rest of the article?

Grow up and out of childish prodding.
Stooge is the wrong word, but having someone sneak their bigoted views into your publication is not the same thing and being a bigot.
Your Nyuk nyuking is a thin veil for your bad arguments.

“Schizophrenic?” Wanting minimum government, more individual freedom, peace, and prosperity is now considered “schizophrenic”?

Don’t. Think. So.

If anything, the mental illness lies with those who think that progressive or conservative Big Government in any stripe is the answer to America’s problems, when in fact it caused them in the first place. I believe it’s a combination of blind addiction and dysfunctional codependency with a healthy dose of ignorance and stupidity.

BTW, how’s that progressive thing working out in CA? Can you spare $650 billion for the debt and pension obligations and several million acres feet of water for the people? We sorta need that here because the progressives tied the cash to the government unions and the water to the Delta Smelta. But that’s progressivism for you, serving the government and 3-inch fish while serfing everyone else….

Why? Are you lonely in your misery?

BTW, the progressive gravy boat hit a fiscal iceberg and sank long ago.

Why? DoE doesn’t need to exist since education is a local matter, and SSA and Medicare are simply taxation Ponzi schemes that could be solved rather quickly if DC had the brains and guts to either reform into true savings accounts or simply sunset.

The solutions are out there. The incumbents don’t want them, out of fear of losing their cushy perks.

That’s because the Cold War never ended. It simply took 20 years off and is now restarting in China and the Arctic. ASBM, J-20, etc. ring any bells? How about White Swan?

The enemy isn’t mad men living in caves, unless you A) believe in that hyped claptrap, or B) think that Congress lives in caves.

Funny thing about that “bigger pie,” as the pie has gotten larger, the people who have benefited overwhelmingly as statistics have shown are the richest 2 percent. They have gotten most of the gains, the median income has actually dropped during this period. This is fact, do with it whatever you want.

http://business-ethics.com/2010/10/28/2456-scary-new-wage-data/

They’ll go after the unarmed leftist anti-gun pro-hyper-regulatory hippies first since they’ll be simply sitting in their basements smoking a doobie–easier pickings.

Pro-union works really well–ask California.

“Ron Paul is not the enemy of women”

Totally agreed.

If a woman thinks that an honorable profession of bringing healthy kids into the world makes that man an enemy, then that woman has a neckup wreckup.

The Progressive Libertarian Party

It is possible for Libertarians and Progressives to form an alliance but a vigorous public debate between both political communities must take place in order for the policy platform to fleshed out so that such an alliance can win public trust and their individual donations.

Let us debate policy in this …
See More
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_131067353627934&ap=1

Misery loves company. These guys…. sheesh.

An alliance of two. Paul’s only redeeming quality is that he wants to scrutinize the Fed. But he’s a nut-job. And Nader is so desperate to stay relevant, kinda like Jesse Jackson. Ralph, get out of the way!

And to those who want to lump Sen Sanders in with them, they’re not even close to being in his league.

Quickening. But I can’t prove it either. It sure isn’t the conception according to the biology. Just because all the parts are in the garage doesn’t mean you have a car. Some assembly is required.

Are you an idiot, or do you just play one on message boards?

Dr. Paul is not a surgeon; he’s an OB.
He’s in TX, not AZ.
Transplant bureaucracy is a state problem that can be solved by getting the state out of it. Yet if a donor and recipient and doctor want to get it done on their own, they can’t. Why? Government intervention.

Don;t project your issues with AZ’s tarnsplant system on a Texas OB.

Nope. God asks Ron Paul for advice and then sends Chuck Norris to implement it.

BTW, Chuck will be by at 7 PM to kick some sense into your head.

(This PSA is brought to you by the sane people, bringing sanity to the insane one kick in the head at a time. We now return you to your regularly scheduled deprogramming…)

Why, so they can mess it up 140 characters at a time?

[...] Raw Story via Poli-Tea: on Wednesday’s broadcast of Freedom Watch on the Fox Business channel, Judge [...]

“I don’t understand what libertarianism is.”

It’s actually quite simple:

- Minimal government
- Maximal personal freedom and responsibility, limited only by not interfering with others’ ability to do likewise.
- Peace through self-defense.
- Prosperity through opportunity and real free markets.

The rest is just details, and the criticisms are based in the fools who don’t understand it, don’t want it, or can’t handle it, and take it to the illogical absurd.

As for research, plenty of sites out there on it. try mises.org and advocates.org, for starters

I think you blew a mental fuse there.

Keith Olbermann wasn’t in Texas or Arizona and he wasn’t any kind of doctor, yet he still did several things to help these people. He talked about the issue several times on his show. Gave interviews to those who were dying to show the human face behind the tragedy in Arizona and helped raise over $250,000 to help these people pay for the procedures they could not support.

One doesn’t have to go someplace and start operating to help them or aid them in getting the help they so desperately need, if you can’t see that it is you who are the mentally challenged person not me!. I asked a simple question, what is Dr. Ron Paul doing to help these people–your answer, which is to call me an “idoit” and the answer of all those here taken together is he is doing nothing. So much for his supposed humanitarianism. There are other things he could be doing. He could have at least donated to the fund set up to help them, he is a millionaire after all! But evidently he hasn’t done that!

No, no reread it : “he still would deliver the sick to the health insurance companies”

“the “sick, not “sick people.”

He’d be delivering the barf to the HICs.

“The 19th century was a great time to be alive. There was no government help and there was no regulation of business; the environment was so dirty that people could barely breath some days.”

What, you were there?

You really are an idiot, or else you overdosed on Upton Sinclair.

BTW, Dickens was fiction.

How those libertarian paradises of Haiti and Somalia workin for ya ? ya fuckin morons.

You nailed it, Pally !

With that attitude and approach you will not only be successful, but you will do so despite government. All the best to you, and knock ‘em dead!

“But until the Libertarian political movement gets real specific on the details of their general policy statements no one in the general public will trust them as Libertarians are to often seen associated with the very corporate and military sponsored politicians in the Republican party.”

IOW, you drink the media Kool-Aid, and they get those subsidies as well.

Libertarian enviromentalism is very simple: you mess up my property, you compensate me for it. That includes my air and water and soil. Conversely if I do the same to you, I have to compensate you. Property rights, plain and simple and properly enforced.

Libertarians are not Republicans, unless you can find in the GOP where the GOP supports ending the wars on drugs and food and returning self-sovereignty.

He asked if you had a better idea, not a failed one.

So why don’t you raise some more hell and end the current wars and bring down Obama?

Or does he get a pass because he’s a Democrat while Nixon wasn’t?

“Common Cause” founder should organize people not assnose Ron Paul the fucking gaybasher.

QED dumbass.

Ok, I get that on Dr. Paul, but who’s the other one?

That list is missing the most important parts:

0. restoring the People’s freedom and wallets
1. rolling back intrusive government.

No, we understand the SSA Ponzi Scheme perfectly. You don’t.

Had SSA been actual individual retirement accounts set up for individuals as an optional payroll deduction, it would be solvent and we’d be fine. That’s also the reform needed in a nutshell. But FDR set it up to be socialist redistribution of revenue from penny one, and it’s been that way ever since.

Frankly, I can take that 6.2% license-to-work tax and put it into an interest-bearing annuity or into commodities and get a better return than SSA, and the matching 6.2% that employers pay in payroll taxes (15% if self-employed) is money better spent on job creation and improving workplace quality for employees.

Withholding in general is $80 billion out of the economy every two weeks, Restore that cash to paychecks and the economy goes into boom mode immediately.

enough of mono- or uni-polic powers in u.s. to make matters worse, the unipower is backed by duopolic god aaaaand the devil powers.
such monopolic power builds churches for higher classes and jails for lower classes.

happy that paul and nader r forming opposition to the monopoly. if they’d elect in next election even half a dozen delegates to congress, that wld be a turning point in u.s. politics. tnx

How can you call Haiti a libertarian paradise? Do you realise how hard it is to start a business there? There are so many corrupt GOVERNMENT officials that want kickbacks not mention all the gangs running around backed by the elites extorting money. Somalia is far from a libertarian paradise as well. You have a government trying to grab power backed by the US and UN massacring civilians on a daily basis. Doesn’t sound very libertarian to me. There’s a difference between incompetent government and minimal government but you don’t seem to grasp that.

You are correct about the origin of the SS fund. I was wrong. I appreciate you pointing that out to me. I won’t comment further on the origin of the SS fund until I research the subject in more depth.

I also agree with you that it was not very wise to believe the housing prices would continue to rise and the stock market would continue to go up. That was easy to see and people like Ron Paul and Peter Schiff were raising red flags long before others saw anything coming.

But it is also foolish of you to believe the dollar will continue to be viable. Do you really think “loaning the money to the government” is a good investment? Sure, the government will print up some money and hand it out, but how much will it be worth?

I am no longer a young person whose future depends on what happens. Young people were worked up over the prospect of going to Vietnam as cannon fodder. Ending the draft ended that. I think that lot of the older folks will have the back of the young if they stand up, but we aren’t going to lead the charge this time. That’s the work of the young who have the energy and motivation to shape a world for themselves.

However, if I were a young person today, I would be very worked up over the disappearing of future prospects in the race to the bottom due to global labor arbitrage and the pillaging of the Treasury by the privileged, soaking up funds that might otherwise go to education, health care, basic research, infrastructure — everything needed to compete in a global economy. An although youth doesn’t have to be concerned about the draft now, the wars and military-industrial complex are soaking up funds that would be better directed at making the country and world a better place instead of in pursuit of an American Empire that benefits the top of the town.

Exactly where was socialism actually tried? Communism is not democratic socialism. It is totalitarian and socialism isn’t that.

No. I guess I should have been clearer. I suggest that because history shows that teams of assassins are released upon the likes of those two when they’ve attained positions of power in the past. The bunker could be the smarter way to campaign now that certain party organizations send wigged women up to shove something inside Rand Paul’s car so she gets thrown to the ground. Nader and Paul could save the day, but not if they’re subjected to all the mind-control character and bodily assassins the Man would send their way ( I voted for Nader and gave money to Paul )

[...] gas grills… hah hah hah, there is a funny story I would like totell you about portable grills.This is actually my own experience aboutusing natural [...]

Libertarians vote republican. They are just trying to recruit more blue dogs (cons)

Forget the ruse that “voting makes a difference”. The “bipartisan congress” only wants to con the people for campaign donations; then, dumps the people attending to the corporate agendas and needs after election. This has been the pattern for the past 50 years and will not change. The dumbed-down people contribute votes and money time and time again.

The Wall Street Banksters occupied and took control of government in 2008. In 2009 they brought in Obama to consolidate their gains and control. See: http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2008/09/money-and-votes-aligned-in-con.html Scroll down the article to see – Financial sector contributions to Congress, 1989-2008. Yep, Obama was bought and paid for just like the other 535 members of congress; and given more influence.

Wall Street, the industrial/military complex, major oil corporations and big pharmaceuticals rule. Their control cannot be severed except for the complete economic collapse of the nation and wold with the people abandoning the corporate oligarchy and choosing to go their own way.

Nice gesture by Paul and Nader; but, not enough power to succeed.

He is either a true American named RN or maybe you would have preferred if it wereERIC CANTOR , Netnayahu’s main man in DC?

You sort of have to ignore Johntheteahumper, he is not a well man.

There is no half way with the Federal Reserve! Ron Paul DOES NOT have a plan, or, at least has not revealed anything. The ONLY valid plan is to take the Federal Reserve out of the hands of the Banksters and Congress and place under a Legislative process as revealed here. http://www.notaxesnow.org/

End all taxation and fund government via interest gathered from ALL loans.

The artificial entity we have all been indoctrinated to believe in, otherwise known as the United States of America, was never free. There can be no freedom at the barrel of a gun!
Ron Paul has many great attributes, but the gold standard will not work today by itself, he too is a victim of indoctrination.

Eric WhoRU has the answers and can help you break away from the brainwashing you all suffered through the government run indoctrination clinics, otherwise known as the public school system. Take the time and listen to him on “Talkshoe WhoRU.”

http://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web/talkCast.jsp?masterId=27767&cmd=tc

So you think there is a real threat that China will be coming over here and bombing our Walmarts and destroying their own best market?

Today’s serious threats are mainly non-state sponsored. Spending huge amounts of cash to maintain US bases around the world and weapons designed to fight the Soviets and Chinese is no longer necessary or practical. Continuing to do so will destroy us just as doing so destroyed the Soviets.

It’s time for NoTaxesNow.org.

True Freedom Begins With Monetary Sovereignty

A people cannot truly be free, as long as they are required to pay taxes.

As it stands now, the private owners of the Federal Reserve create the money of the United States by lending it out, at interest, which interest they then keep for themselves instead of using that interest to fund all four levels of government, which would allow the total elimination of all taxation in the entire Federation.

The day we take control of our monetary system from the private ownership of the private international banksters, will be the day that we can honestly claim that we are truly free.

Introducing….The one and only Eric WhoRU…

aka Mr. Eric Williams
Eric’s ideas are as original, legitimate and just as real as the ‘American Revolution’.

Greetings to all those who love Liberty!

Is this a true statement?:

If you don’t have the authority to do it to me and I don’t have the authority to do it to you, then the government doesn’t have the authority to do it to us.

Eric WhoRU

Makes sense, doesn’t it?

The most recurrent reason for failure to reach satisfactory solutions to our basic political problems is the failure to examine the problem and its solution on sound basic principles. In examining this simple solution to the problems with the income tax and our money system, we must first lay out a few basic fundamental axioms, principles which ought to be self evident but which apparently, are not:

1. Governments do not exist in nature; (We are natural creatures of nature.)

2. No person has any natural authority to bind any other or tell anybody else what to do;

3. Governments are artificial entities created by humans; (We are not created by the artificial entity government.)

4. Governments can have no more authority than their human creators; (So how can it reasonably be that the government has any authority over us?)

5. Taxation is a euphemism for armed robbery;

6. Those governed by means of taxation cannot possibly be free;

7. A government funded by means of taxation is a slave state;

8. A people cannot claim to be a free people, and teach their children that they are free, when the government that they created to protect their freedom funds itself by pointing its guns at them.

All eight axioms do indeed apply to the United States. Axiom eight – slightly rephrased: “How can we claim to be a free people and teach our children that they are free when the government that we created to protect our freedom funds itself by pointing its guns at us?”

“The reason we are in this mess is because in the past we have failed to take the time to create a basic foundation for the government we have created to govern and protect us.”

That is why you are once more encouraged to re-read and remember and apply all eight of the axioms that you read herein above.

The solution presented below:

1. will not require the elimination, or even the reduction, in any existing government programs: – Social Security – Medicare – Medicaid – Aid to Dependent Children – other government funded programs.

All will remain in place, fully funded.

2. nor will this solution require you to pay out any additional money to fund the government.

3. nor is this solution taxation by another name.

All of the economic problems we encounter in the United States are a direct result of the fact that the central bank of the United States is privately owned. The economic boom and bust cycles, all foreclosures, inflation of the money supply, rising prices – and whatever else you want to address – add it on to the list! But no matter what you add on, the cause originates in the private ownership of the Federal Reserve, not in the basic nature of the central bank.

The Solution in a Nut Shell: All we need to do to fix the problem is to have the ownership of the Federal Reserve taken over by the PEOPLE, while keeping the operation as distant from Congress as it currently is under private ownership. A Board of Governors of the central banking system, now owned by the People will remain in place, but doing it for the People of the United States instead of for the Fed’s current private owners!!

The reason private ownership is the cause of the problems is simply because under private ownership, all of the interest collected on loans goes to the private owners of the Fed. Under the solution presented here, the interest will, instead, be credited to the Treasury of the United States government, to be used instead of taxation (armed robbery) to pay for all of the government programs currently funded by means of armed robbery.

Banks

I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. Already they have raised up a moneyed aristocracy that has set the Government at defiance. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people to whom it properly belongs.
Thomas Jefferson — The Debate Over The Recharter Of The Bank Bill, (1809)

If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them (around the banks), will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.
Thomas Jefferson

The system of banking [is] a blot left in all our Constitutions, which, if not covered, will end in their destruction… I sincerely believe that banking institutions are more dangerous than standing armies; and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity … is but swindling futurity on a large scale.
Thomas Jefferson

“In order to be able to meet a general combination of the banks against us in a critical emergency, could we not make a beginning towards an independent use of our own money, towards holding our own bank in all the deposits where it is received, and letting the treasurer give his draft or note for payment at any particular place, which, in a well-conducted government, ought to have as much credit as any private draft or bank note or bill, and would give us the same facilities which we derive from the banks?” –Thomas Jefferson to Albert Gallatin, 1803. ME 10:439

What is proposed here, in accordance with the eight basic axioms set forth above, is to totally eliminate all taxation at every level of government in the entire United States. That is correct – no city, county or state sales taxes, property taxes, fuel (gasoline) taxes – that is NO TAXES of any nature whatever!!

It is obviously imperative that we have government, but if we are to call ourselves a free people and teach our children that they are free, the method of funding must not be through taxation as “taxation” is nothing but a euphemism for armed robbery. Therefore, the means by which we fund our government must be voluntary means!

In order to have a free flowing economy, a readily accessible money system must be utilized, people who borrow money expect to pay interest. Interest is the only voluntary source of revenue that anyone has been able to devise. Is it not, therefore, most reasonable that the interest voluntarily paid on such borrowed money should go to the Federal Treasury, to fund the Peoples government?? And it is most imperative that we do not allow the U.S. Congress or the President to have control over, or access to, the Peoples central bank!!

If you don’t have the authority to do it to me and I don’t have the authority to do it to you, then the government doesn’t have the authority to do it to us.

Remember – Coercion Does Not Equal Freedom!! — Eric WhoRU

He said he would allow competing currency, not a return to gold standard.

If they keep that kind of talk going…enough to actually reach people…I’d advise them to avoid small airplanes for the foreseeable future.

If the women does not have control over her own body she is not a free person and that is not an issue for the states to decide.How many other values are you willing to dump overboard when it suits you just as you accuse the Democrats of doing.

Like gay marriage, abortion is the issue that will not go away or be kicked down stairs.

Nader (directly responsible for putting Bush in office in 2000) does not have the authority to form alliances with the likes of Ron Paul (did you see ‘Bruno’?) and his backward-ass Libertarian’s on behalf of Progressives. REJECT.

It isn’t your business to decide who can or cannot have an abortion.There is no going back on this.

I think he was addresing the whole ” leave it to the states” cop-out.

Libertarianism is when you keep government small enough that it can’t do anything. Then instead of paying taxes you get to pay ” user fees” which cost you more in the long run or even the short run for that matter. We could pay special asessments to fix pot holes, we could have toll-roads. Oh the fun of it.

See but here’s the problem. The free market isn’t working! Otherwise I could afford to have health insurance. This coalitiond is going to crack – up on the rocks. Paul worships the market place and Nader knows better. If Paul isn’t at the top of the ticket he will pick up his marbles and leave the game.

They used to have these things called… ” HISTORY BOOKS”. But today you can verify on the internets.

Yeah, someone in that family may have worked their way up but it wasnt Paris Hilton.
The 2% that control the world economy are finance by generational wealth. Meaning the majority of wealthy individuals are wealthy due to coming from wealth.
There are a few people who started out at the bottom and made it but that is not the case with the majority of the wealthy class.

Creating wealth is when you add ” value” to something like when you buy a house, slap some paint in it and on it and sell to the unsuspecting or when you bundle loanes into a new entity and make damn sure someone else gets stuck with it.

So murder is ok as long as its in a womans body? Thats the difference the states face is when does inalienable rights start? At conception or birth?

I took economics and it was all about the way things are supposed to work not the way they actually do.

G.W. Bush did. It can happen if you pick the right parents.

How is Habeas Corpus ‘deader’ under Obama?

If Nader could help the Republicans get the Presidency back it would be so much more orderly and everyting.

You weren’t able to refute what I said about the 19th century, and you obviously can’t believe that anyone could know anything about any period in which they didn’t actually live. That must be convenient, you don’t have to worry about history nearly repeating itself, or any other inconvenient past mistakes associated with previous periods.

I am confused by your claim about Dickens, the verb was means you are claiming that the man was a fiction, becuase if you are talking about his work it would not be referred to in the past tense because, like what you just wrote here, it still exists or we couldn’t still read it, so the correct verb is the present tense “is” or “are” not the past tense “were”!

In other words, your claim about Dickens is just plain screwy. If you are talking about Dickens, the person, he was a man who died in 1870. He certainly wasn’t fiction, there is plenty of proof that he existed including pictures and the many books and stories he left.

If you are talking about his books, most of them are fiction, one of them is what is commonly called non-fiction and that was “American Notes: For General Circulation (1842).

Further, the paradoxical aspect of good fiction is that many times it contains more truth than say the non-fiction status you unfortunately claim for your post here.

Duh Amos that is the reason a Libertarian philosophy will never work! Corruption and tilted playing fields are the LOGICAL result of a lack of deregulation.

All games and all business require a set of rules and a REFEREE to enforce them! Paul and the libertarians don’t like the rules that the rest of us have set up so they think the best way to get THERI way is to neuter the referee.

Childish and naive “ideas” are not how to run a sophisticated economy.

RAW when are we going to get the edit function to work? Mine just flashes the script and the nothing! It’s been this way since the end of November. i have Vista home with all of the updates so WTF is going on?

I have sent you two direct contact E-mails on this subject but have YET to get a response.

With all of the new traffic I would think that you would be trying to IMPROVE the reader experience but I guess us posters don’t matter eh?

It means he could write the kyron scroll for Faux News!

I will say this one last time to those of you who think that you can replace a POLAR system….you can not. Nature is built upon attraction and repulsion. From the atomic structure to the matting drive all things are built on a duopoly.
The only way to kill the current two party system is to KILL both parties simultaneously! Now how is that going to happen? The minute one party exhibits weakness the forces of human activity elevate the other party.

Grow the F up and realize there is no easy solution no magic bullet that will rebalance the system. What we can do is take over the Democratic Party and strengthen the progressive wing and provide candidates manpower and votes to take on the Plutocrats and corporatists.

Saying that we should abandon the Dem’s is EXACTLY what the PLUTOCRATS are hoping for because it will only STRENGTHEN their grip on power.
Read “The Art of War” and learn what has to be done to survive otherwise move to Canada!

Name three things that the depratment of education does?

I didn’t think you could but there are a lot of college studnets that would NOT be in college without the department and their programs.

Why don’t you EDUCATE yourself and go to their website and read just what it is that they do before buying NEOCON talking points.

There is actually. In 1992 he had a lot to say about black people and crime and that while we don’t usually expect the same level of responsibility from children as we do adults, black kids are different because at thirteen they run with gangs and are big and scary etc. etc. Google Ron Paul newsletters and you will find out about a lot of other things as well.

Thanks. Your political system is so complicated, confusing and spawning new ideologies.
I will get my head around it one day. Maybe…

I lost one at 18 weeks of development. He had all his fingers and toes, and was on his was to being a perfect baby. Amazingly, they let us keep him. We named him Benjamin and buried him and cried buckets. But I think letting somebody ELSE’s religion decide for me, in what is supposed to be a pluralistic society, what to do with my body would be no better than letting the Taliban lord it over me.

I would offer to raise my daughter’s baby if she were undecided on what to do in the case of a pregnancy she’s not ready for. But I’d also support her if she chose to go the other way. The horrors visited upon women where abortion is suppressed are too great. In some places a woman is still made to have as many children as her husband wants, when there is no way to raise them — eight starving kids and a woman whose life has been reduced to slavery. And that’s supposed to be okay? Go with single-payer coverage, emphasize sex education and birth control, and the abortion rate will drop below what it would be if it were illegal. STDs would drop as well.

So far as I can make out, the purpose of attacking family planning is subjugation of women. Sorry, ain’t going there.

[...] Rebel Alliance Ron Paul, Ralph Nader agree on ‘progressive-libertarian alliance’ | Raw Story [...]

Looks like we’ve got ourselves the makings for an anti-Corporate party. I like it! Opportunities need to be shifted back to entrepreneurs and small business and away from corporate monopolies.

Join the revolution by planting a garden in your backyard and buying real silver or gold to store in your possession.

Hurray Good News!!!!!

I always like it when that happens

[...] Ron Paul, Ralph Nader agree on ‘progressive-libertarian alliance’, The Raw Story, January 22, 2011, by Nathan Diebenow, used with permission, quoted verbatim: Evans Liberal Politics is happy to partner with The Raw Story to bring you cutting edge news. [...]

He has no solutions, or will not share them with anyone. I was a huge Ron Paul supporter, and am very well versed on him having read most of his books, but he fails. The solution I have posted is the ONLY option for a truly free country. If Ron Paul is out for Americas best interests, he should end taxation and use the Federal Reserve the way I posted.

[...] the full Story at rawstory.com/rs/2011/01/ron-paul-ralph-nader-agree-on-progressive-libertarian-alliance/ This entry was posted in Nationwide News, Texas. Bookmark the permalink. ← [...]

Nader is not responsible for Bush/Cheney any more than he is responsible for Obama.

Ron Paul is not a choice for progressives.

The Wall Street Banksters occupied and took control of government long before 2008.

1980 was when they began to do in the open that which they had been doing in secret.

“If you don’t know history, it is as if you were born yesterday.” Howard Zinn

[...] even the most cursory examination of the exciting new progressive-libertarian alliance reveals that Ralph Nader and Ron Paul, from opposite ends of the political spectrum, have much in common. Nader, the nation’s [...]

They don’t call it the maze of libertarianism for nothing.

The Lord of the Rings VS. Atlas Shrugged.

“There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”

“It is possible for Libertarians and Progressives to form an alliance…?” peanuts

No

“It is possible for Libertarians and Progressives to form an alliance…?” peanuts

No

We don’t have a free market in medicine. Big insurance and Big pharma are heavily subsidized. Then we have medicare/medicaid and all the HMO plans. We have a corporate run system right now, not a free market system. That is why prices are so high.

Dr. Paul wants to return to a free market system by eliminating the subsidies and government programs.

We don’t have a free market in medicine. Big insurance and Big pharma are heavily subsidized. Then we have medicare/medicaid and all the HMO plans. We have a corporate run system right now, not a free market system. That is why prices are so high.

Dr. Paul wants to return to a free market system by eliminating the subsidies and government programs.

You should read “the road to serdom” by F.A Hayek.

You should read “the road to serdom” by F.A Hayek.

Tell us what else we can’t do, wise man

statusquohero, You’re nobody’s hero

Tell us what else we can’t do, wise man

statusquohero, You’re nobody’s hero

“The Road to Serfdom” is way out of date. The threat now is financialized corporatocracy, not socialism. Anyway, watch China give the West a run for its money with its market socialism v. financialized corporatism, aka crony capitalism.

“The Road to Serfdom” is way out of date. The threat now is financialized corporatocracy, not socialism. Anyway, watch China give the West a run for its money with its market socialism v. financialized corporatism, aka crony capitalism.

The cool thing is that Progressives and Libertarians have more in common than not and working together on that common ground makes a lot of sense. I have long wondered why that idea hasn’t come to full fruition. And, often, people of both persuasions are thinking, reasonable individuals who would be more equipped to sit down and work out compromises on the issues on which they don’t agree. Yes, there are passionate people on both sides but accomplishing together the things on which we agree creates an arena for working on the things on which we don’t. This is something that I view with much hope.

[...] Ron Paul, Ralph Nader agree on