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PATRIOT Act extension fails procedural vote, expected to return

By David Edwards
Tuesday, February 8, 2011 20:06 EDT
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A plan that would have seen the House of Representatives extend controversial provisions of the PATRIOTAct with little debate failed Tuesday night, as a group of Republicans joined a majority of Democrats in voting no.

The House voted 277 to 148 for the PATRIOT Act extension — 23 votes short of the two-thirds majority needed to pass it under a procedure that allows bills that aren’t controversial to pass quickly.

But it appears the bill was controversial enough to convince some two dozen tea party-backed Republican freshmen to join a majority of Democrats in voting against it, The Hill reported.

The measure is now expected to return to the House floor for a regular vote that would require a simple majority to pass. If House members vote then as they did Tuesday, the extension will pass easily.

At issue were three core measures in the PATRIOT Act adopted in the aftermath of the September 11, 2001 attacks to fill what the government complained were gaps in its abilities to track and catch extremists.

The provisions, which expire at month’s end, allow authorities to use roving wiretaps to track an individual on several telephones; track a non-US national suspected of being “lone-wolf” terrorist not tied to an extremist group; and to seize personal or business records seen as critical to an investigation.

The White House said in a statement that it “strongly supports extension of three critical authorities that our nation’s intelligence and law enforcement agencies need to protect our national security.”

With the Republican-held House of Representatives set to vote on extending the powers to December 8, the White House said it “would strongly prefer” an extension to December 2013, but “does not object” to the House bill. House Republicans say the 10-month span would provide the time needed to debate and enact a longer extension, and the GOP’s leadership has said it ultimately wants to see the PATRIOT Act made permanent.

That some tea party Republicans joined Democrats in voting against the measure will likely be welcome news to Rep. Dennis Kucinich, who earlier this week issued a challenge to tea party members to stand up for the civil liberties they say they cherish by opposing the PATRIOT Act, which has been severely criticized by civil libertarians since its original passing after the 9/11 attacks.

“I am hopeful that members of the Tea Party who came to Congress to defend the Constitution will join me in challenging the reauthorization,” Kucinich said in a statement.

With a report from AFP

David Edwards
David Edwards
David Edwards has served as an editor at Raw Story since 2006. His work can also be found at Crooks & Liars, and he's also been published at The BRAD BLOG. He came to Raw Story after working as a network manager for the state of North Carolina and as as engineer developing enterprise resource planning software. Follow him on Twitter at @DavidEdwards.
 
 
 
 
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  • Anonymous

    Obama’s going to be mad at some Democrats and he’s going to yell at them for making Republicans upset.

  • Anonymous

    some tea party Republicans joined Democrats in voting against the measure

    Mr. Speaker…Having a little trouble herding cats?
    House whip… having trouble counting votes?

    LOL

  • gypski®

    Let this non-Patriot Act die its death or wither on the vine.

  • Anonymous

    Yes! Thank you to those democrats and republicans that opposed it. Please get more of you for the next round. You will be bribed, blackmailed and threatened I am sure.

  • Guest

    “Impressive. Most impressive.”

    I may not agree on being Taxed Enough Already, but Big Ups to those who who shunned their corporate masters and still believe in civil liberties. And thanx for pissin’ off the Republican’ts!
    (I just hope it sticks)

  • Anonymous

    Hopefully, Republicans will wake up and kill the Patriot Act in total. All it is is a power grab by the Federal bureaucracy. All Republicans are basically on record for smaller government.

  • Anonymous

    Dictators getting kicked out of office,Democrats working with Republicans.Am I dreaming ???

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_BRFWNCTTN4GI6JTDUNV7AZ3WWM annalisa

    thank you, tea people.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_UE4ZF7APAPMYOWNBHLBHM4TBKM TERENCE R GALLAGHER

    DO NOT PASS..DO NOT PASS…DO NOT PASS…
    USA…USA…USA…

  • Anonymous

    **Me so happy.

  • Anonymous

    277 to 148 in favor, and you are happy? Hahaha.

  • Anonymous

    277 to 148, next vote only needs a majority!

  • Anonymous

    OMG at least there are some honest people in the house. Thank your rep if they voted nay, let them know they have your support and they will do it again.

  • Anonymous

    Not controversial? Fucking fascists. And good for the Tea Partiers (not using baggers in this case!). Wouldn’t it be oh so wonderful if they really are genuine. Fuck you, Cock Brothers.

  • Anonymous

    And fuck you, Dick Armey, too.

  • Anonymous

    While I’m on a roll, fuck you Jim Demint too, you fuckbag hypocrite (Guess whose name is not on the list). Here’s the list (now I’m going to find the 67 assbag democrats who voted for it):

    Republicans voting against the bill were Reps. Justin Amash (Mich.), Roscoe Bartlett (Md.), Rob Bishop (Utah), Paul Broun (Ga.), John Campbell (Calif.), John Duncan (Tenn.), Mike Fitzpatrick (Pa.), Chris Gibson (N.Y.), Tom Graves (Ga.), Dean Heller (Nev.), Randy Hultgren (Ill.), Tim Johnson (Ill.), Walter Jones (N.C.), Jack Kingston (Ga.), Raul Labrador (Idaho), Connie Mack (Fla.), Kenny Marchant (Texas), Tom McClintock (Calif.), Ron Paul (Texas), Denny Rehberg (Mont.), Phil Roe (Tenn.), Dana Rohrabacher (Calif.), Bobby Schilling (Ill.), David Schweikert (Ariz.), Rob Woodall (Ga.), and Don Young (Alaska).

  • Anonymous

    Looks like it’s time for a …

    FLASE FLAG ATTACK!

  • Anonymous

    Maybe some Anthrax RM Gift Cards to remind Congress they are Under “Muslim Attack” (Cheney and Co)

  • Anonymous

    “The White House said in a statement that it “strongly supports extension of three critical authorities that our nation’s intelligence and law enforcement agencies need to protect our national security.”

    SCREw THEM

  • http://www.youtube.com/user/RepublicConstitution?feature=mhum TruthRegimes

    Hilarious, unfortunately if it is entirely repealed the Neo-Cons will roll out another 911 or OKC event to get a more draconian bill in place. More people should listen to Kucinich, Nader, Ron Paul, and others.

  • http://www.youtube.com/user/RepublicConstitution?feature=mhum TruthRegimes

    This is the kind of working together that Obama/Bush hate though.

  • http://www.youtube.com/user/RepublicConstitution?feature=mhum TruthRegimes

    Sad but true. Darth Cheney is getting a bag full of weapons grade anthrax from Ft. Detrick ready right now.

  • http://www.youtube.com/user/RepublicConstitution?feature=mhum TruthRegimes

    Yes, Al CIAda will mysteriously appear again or another fake bin Laden video of him praising those who vote against the Patriot Act which will cause the totally mindless to say, “We’re ‘murkans we gotta have a Patriot Act to fight bin Laden!!!”

  • http://www.youtube.com/user/RepublicConstitution?feature=mhum TruthRegimes

    The Neo-Cons will go CRAZY over this! Way to go Kucinich, Ron Paul, and others!

  • Taleisin

    One small step for the House of reps, one giant leap for commonsense.

  • Anonymous

    It’s only half the battle. I called my congresswoman twice about this. If you didn’t call your Representative YOU’VE FAILED YOUR JOB AS A CITIZEN!!! You should be calling for the upcoming vote to DEFEAT the unpatriotic Patriot Act!

  • Anonymous

    Well I guess there is some hope after all. The only problem is that when it comes up again this piece of shit legislation will pass. Please tell me why the Congress is filled with 277 complete a$$holes????

  • Anonymous

    I don’t mean to piss on anybody’s parade here, but just a little reality check — from above:

    “The measure is now expected to return to the House floor for a regular vote that would require a simple majority to pass.”

    AIPAC’s Congressional whores will collectively, as always, vote as AIPAC instructs. The USA-Patriot Act is the keystone legislative element of our Orwellian Police State, and it won’t be going into the historical dustbin anytime soon.

    Sorry to be so negative — I’d love to be wrong about this.

  • Anonymous

    You’re right about that part, but I hope that this causes enough progressives and rational minded people to congratulate the congressmen and women that did vote against the measure, so the rest of their colleagues see the support it’s drawing. Or at least in theory :

  • Anonymous

    Patriot Act same as Enabling Act inGermany?

    The US Congress is moving to renew the USA PATRIOT Act, a controversial anti-terrorism law. The major provisions of the bill will expire soon, forcing the Congress to entertain the measure once again. Investigative journalist Wayne Madsen explained the “Patriot Act” reminds him of laws Hitler put in place in Germany to destroy the German Constitution and that its policies are clearly unconstitutional.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inPc1gXpUdA

  • Anonymous

    We need to have this “act” removed, and file it with Lincolns fascism, in histories dust bin.

  • Anonymous

    I hope so too.

  • alfredo

    Is it not amazing that, at least some of us, on opposite side of the political spectrum can agree on at least one thing one time?
    I just hope that the Obama administration, with which I agree most of the time, comes around to our point of view on the patriot act (patriot act my a**).
    Between ‘ol Senslessbrenner and me, though, it’s still ‘ol Senslessbrenner a big fat 0 me nth.

    Patriotism is the willingness to kill and be killed for trivial reasons.
    Sir Bertrand Russell

  • http://plus.google.com/u/0/111051039748078110427/about novenator

    “House Republicans tried this evening to pass a bill extending three of the most controversial provisions of the USA PATRIOT Act by using an expedited procedure that allowed for just 40 minute of debate and no amendments.” http://www.opencongress.org/articles/view/2196-PATRIOT-Act-Extension-Fails-For-Now

    26 Republicans joined 122 Democrats to narrowly avert the 2/3rds needed for this passage of this by a vote of 277 yea to 148 nay (7 switched votes would have meant passage). A full breakdown of who voted for this can be found here: http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/112/house/1/votes/26/

  • Anonymous

    What was this–just a play-pretend vote to give your few decent republicans standing for the Bill of Rights on this issue political cover for their next election speeches?

    Your games are downright despicable. PASS IT! You know you won’t be happy until you can drive up to our homes and go into our bedrooms looking for letters from the Taliban.

  • Iconoclasm

    It’s kinda like when our Founding Fathers created their supposed “free” country which in actuality was a police state from the beginning. There cannot be true fredom at the barrel of a gun, By this I refer to taxation. Taxation is just a euphemism for armed robbery! They lied then and they lied with Patriot Act! Those that have been fooled by this boondoggle should wake the F up!

    Here is the history of Patriot Act:
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3105519703637733227#

  • http://www.rawstory.com/ hounddogg

    it must be impossible for you to make a comment without being a dick…I’ll bet you got beat up in school a lot…

  • parrots_abound

    Mysterious Muslim-Arab-Al-Qaeda attack coming to a Walmart near you in 3….2……1…..

  • trank

    and those teabaggers will abandon the liberty ship when limbaugh gets on they ass before the next vote.

  • Anonymous

    and you want your roads paved how and who’s going to come to put out the wild fires near your house? yeah, that stuff is paid for through taxation.

  • http://www.youtube.com/user/RepublicConstitution?feature=mhum TruthRegimes

    You need to read some Austrian Economics 101 rather than the government indoctrination you have been exposed to from time you were a child. Government does not make the world go around contrary to the theories of lovers of Big Government.

  • http://www.youtube.com/user/RepublicConstitution?feature=mhum TruthRegimes

    You agree with the Obama administration most of the time?? Obama follows the same policies that Bush instituted…thus you agree with Bush most of the time on: fake war on terror, Guantanamo, Big Bankster Bailouts, presidential assassination list with U.S. citizen’s names on it, secret rendition, secret black prison sites, etc.???

  • Anonymous

    WHAT!!! It failed!

  • Anonymous

    Aaahhh, A little dose of reality too much for you? Poor thing!

  • Anonymous

    great news.

  • Anonymous

    OMG! Privacy?!?

  • Iconoclasm

    Over and over again the same indoctrinated mindless dribble! First off, I NEVER said that their should be no government. I simply do not like an overbearing and corrupt government as we undoubtedly have today. There is a way this country can be run WITHOUT taxation. Yes, that’s right…..TOTALLY WITHOUT TAXATION! Taxation is no different than its parallel used by the Mafia where they strongarm people to give them protection. Taxation is just a euphemism for armed robbery!

    In 1913 an unconstitutionally created entity known as the Federal Reserve was created by the very rich and power hungry Banksters bought off Congress. This entity has commandeered our governing body and now OWNS that governing body! The Fed, as it’s dearly referred to, takes in 6 times as much interest as our government takes in taxes. Imagine that?!!!
    To make this country truly free as we have been told repeatedly that it is, We the People, need to take the Federal Reserve back from these Bankster criminals and put it back in the hands of the government. NOT THE CONGRESS however as they have already sold us out more than once. I assure you, this will not be an easy task as they are ruthless and will not just roll over. ASSsuming we could wrest the Fed from these criminals, we would then end taxation and take over the interest from the criminals and use it all to run government. This way, funding for government would be VOLUNTARY. Only those that took out loans would be paying to run the government. NO MORE TYRANNY!

    We then would need to dismantle both the MIC and the DOJ along with its statutory laws and federal codes and go back to Natural Law.
    Then we would truly be the land of the free!

    Good people create governments to protect themselves from the criminals. unfortunately. the criminals adapt and run for office!” – Eric Williams

  • Anonymous

    Piss off DickRob.

  • Anonymous

    It’s not over til it’s over, and that damned Patriot Act is dead and buried for good. Time is ripe for telling Congress to let it die for good.
    I know I’m writing my Congress Critter or calling, whatever it takes.

  • Guest

    figures, the one time the donkeys and tea baggers get it right at the same time, Obama sides with the repugs. And, he wants a second term ……..

  • Anonymous

    I just wrote my Rep (Steve Austria-OH) and told him to change his vote to NO when the bill is reintroduced. Please do the same if your congressman/woman voted for the extension.

  • dula

    Republicans were fine with the Fascist Patriot Act when Bush was in office but not with a Dem in office. They have proved over and over again that their loyalties lie with their political Party and NOT their country.

  • http://www.octive9.com octive9

    downsizedc.org has a system set up to send to reps and senator on issues like this.

  • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

    Hey…any GOP reps listening…Obama wants this passed…now would be one of those rare moments when being opposed to him would be a good thing for everyone…a complete win win. Of course…if the red state kids want to be seen sucking Obama’s d&*k like they’re a mile underwater and the only air is hidden in his balls…I guess we can’t stop you. I leave this in your hands and hope that, by purpose or accident, you will make the right call.

  • Anonymous

    .

    Would be good to see an article in the MSM that addresses the success of Kucinich’s challenge to the Tea Party to step up and defend Our Liberty.

    .

  • Anonymous

    At least we can really some of those crazy tea buggers for at least one thing. Well besides endless entertainment.

  • Anonymous

    Their loyalties lie with their class – always.

    Our political system is theater. Theater to distract us from the puppet show.

  • Anonymous

    “Natural Law”

    Lol.

    Batshit motherfucker.

  • Anonymous

    Sometimes we paint the tea-party crowd with a pretty broad brush.

    Sure, there’s the Koch money making it astroturf.
    Sure, there’s a substantive number of racists among them.

    But once you look past the loudest and/or most controversial fringe elements, there’s a whole load of people that feel disaffected, are sick of government waste and disagree with unconstitutional policies. In 2000-2008 these people would have been far more likely to walk lock-step with the partisan line, now though, they are the closest thing to a voice of dissent among their ranks in the right-wing.

    As much as we may berate, ridicule and mock them… they currently represent our best chance to break the false left-right paradigm and are more likely to agree, on principal, with us on policy than anyone else associated with the GOP. I can only hope they condemn those who bring shame to their name and can rally around Kucinich with Kucinich effectively taking the tea-party where it’s members really want to be (fighting for the constitution, rather than acting at the behest of the Koch brothers and/or Fox propaganda).

    Of course, I’m not an idiot, I fully expect Koch/Fox influences to win ultimately, but will hope otherwise regardless.

  • Anonymous

    Failed is unfortunately the wrong word. It has been surpressed… until the next false flag.

  • Anonymous

    Faketriots will be disappointed, but what do they care about human rights, let alone constitutional rights.

  • Anonymous

    The White House said in a statement that it “strongly supports extension of three critical authorities that our nation’s intelligence and law enforcement agencies need to protect our national security.”

    http://www.deals365.us

  • Anonymous

    Until the next false flag or sooner. They’ll resurrect that POS until they brow-beat, bribe, or blackmail the votes out of them to get it passed. These thugs don’t give up until they get what they want.

  • Anonymous

    And don’t forget, if you see something say something.

    http://www.dhs.gov/ynews/releases/pr_1291648380371.shtm

  • Anonymous

    Your congresswoman is taking calls, is she? I’ve NEVER gotten through to my representative, they just don’t take calls from we the “little” people. I’ve sent emails also and usually get some non-related form letter in return. It’s a joke.

  • Anonymous

    I’m so goddamn sick of the government keeping me “safe” I could scream.

  • Anonymous

    A vote against renewing this POS does not mean there are honest people in the house. Please, let’s not jump to conclusions.

  • Anonymous

    The Faketriot Act must die for America to be called free again.

  • Guest

    I wonder how much of the newbies votes against were due to the Kucinich speech on the House floor?

    http://tinyurl.com/4bem2jw

  • Phil E. Drifter

    When did the the White House become sentient, and who installed the mouth?

  • Jaimie11

    But Talei, look who wants to extend these same provisons, our dear Leader.

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/legislative/sap/112/saphr514h_20120208.pdf

  • Phil E. Drifter

    Franken.

  • Anonymous

    The Patriot Act must die so Americans can live free.

  • Anonymous

    WTF is this? Best 2 out of 3? The damn thing failed to pass. Oh, let’s change the rules and run it by again. Whata CROCK! Why don’t they just do an eeny meeny miney moe?

  • http://www.youtube.com/user/RepublicConstitution?feature=mhum TruthRegimes

    Have you read this?
    http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/2011/01/al_franken_will_mentor_rand_paul.php
    “Al Franken will mentor Rand Paul”

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-Valentine/1277133078 Michael Valentine

    Well at least we will get to hear why these folks want to destroy the American way of life.

  • Anonymous

    It is good to hear the rare quote from our own leader, Kucinich, instead of the endless reports of the terrorist Palin. We need more of our nation’s rational leadership being heard publicly.

  • Sandi

    I understand how you feel, Kurt. . . but it’s sad, don’t ya think, that we’re so used to being spat upon that we now just roll over and let them do it?

    Maybe, instead, we could use this small victory to give us enough hope to write, e-mail, call, etc. our Republican Congressmen and demand they cram the Patriot Act into the shredder. It may not be as effective as a full-blown revolution but it’s a non-violent step in the right direction. And, it only takes a couple of minutes of your time.

  • Anonymous

    Pelosi, et. al, will do their best to see that the PA gets renewed.

  • Anonymous

    Paul / Kucinich 2012!

  • Anonymous

    Exactly! I’m a of lot more scared of a S.W.A.T. team on steroids busting down my door than getting blown up by any terrorist. Anyway we’re killing them over there so.. yada, yada..

  • Anonymous

    My potted plant said I’m gonna be late for work if I don’t stop reading all these posts.

  • Anonymous

    I am sure that those who betrayed We the People will make every attempt to resurrect this traitorous act as soon as they possibly can by nefarious means.
    Until We the People peacefully and non-violently abolish the UNITED STATES CORPORATION (known as the Federal government), and its owner, THE FEDERAL RESERVE CORPORATION, nothing will change.

    http://republicoftheunitedstates.org

  • Don Corleone

    I doubt this horrible piece of legislation will fail to pass in the end. A damn shame that such a thing exists in this country – our ancestors are turning in their graves.

  • Anonymous

    Its too bad Barry isn’t a real Democrat like Kucinich. He’s more Neo-Con than Bush was, (Neo-Liberal). Guantanamo is still open for business, illegal wars and torture are still raging. Like Gun control and amnesty for illegal aliens they will just keep on voting on it until it passes. The Police State cannot function without it. It doesn’t matter that the majority of Americans are against it, the Banksters will have their way with us. We would be better off today if Reagan would of said “Rothschilds & Rockefellers tear down these banks!” instead of a wall that was to come down anyways to further their global domination. The Neo-Cons and Neo-Libs have had their way with us for far too long and its time to make a stand and come together as Americas united and not divided by the Banksters. I know this is a Neo-Liberal site and many will come and try to continue the infighting…it’s the rights fault..it’s the left’s fault… it’s the rights fault..it’s the left’s fault. Its both and the sooner we wake up the sooner we can do something about it.

  • Guest

    It’s great to see that the corporatists (most Republicans and Democrats) are at least delayed and will have to justify their crimes on C-SPAN for all of us to hear. Go, Dennis!

  • Anonymous

    This unconstitutional and un-American piece of garbage must not pass. This is a form of tyranny and a furtherance of a police state. America will be in great danger if this bill is allowed to pass.

  • Anonymous

    Fuk the White House. Obummer is nothing but a schill for international banking interests and the military industrial complex. This bill is unconstitutional and dangerous. It has the potential of destroying our American way of life. It must fail!

  • BrainRagYell

    As soon as you refer to the president of the United States as “Barry,” I lose interest.

    You can have your opinion, but clothing it in an absolute disrespect for the office tells me all I need to know. Only one type of person refers to Barack Obama by “Barry,” and it’s not a serious person. It’s a person who thinks this country is a tyrannical oligarchy instead of a capitalist experiment that has gone way off the rails because of free market opposition to corporate regulation.

    The one you’re angry at, friend, is Ronald Reagan.

    And no, by the way, I have never referred to George W. Bush as “Chimp, Shrub” or any of those other things because, though I disrespected the man and his policies, I do respect the office.

  • trank

    ina couple of hours i predict the true leader of the teabaggers, rush limbaugh, will begin the needed ‘persuasion’ to convince the teabagger/dittohead base to get off any temporary illusion that they actually give shit about the real constitution.

  • trank

    although this might be the perfect issue to picket our local teabag radio stations about.

  • BrainRagYell

    Hrm, yes, except that elected Democrats are unified in their opposition to passing it, and are amending it so that it’s not quite the cowboy legislation that George W. Bush championed, so … bullshit.

    I want the PA to expire.

    It was bad then, it is bad now, but trying to set this up as some kind of Democratic agenda item is disingenuous at best.

  • Guest

    Who installed the mouth? That’s easy… The PTB.

  • Guest

    Yeah, any suspicious terrorist activity should be reported to the proper authorities.

  • Guest

    Not in Tennessee.

  • Anonymous

    A vulgar Lib is an OWNED Lib. Thanks for making my day.

  • Guest

    Hey, I can find aipac in patriot act!

  • Anonymous

    If the Egyptians can maintain their Emergency Law for 30 years, why can’t we do the same for the Patriot Act?

  • BrainRagYell

    Though I appreciate your idealism on the point, the real problem with the Tea Party is that they are proud of their civic ignorance. That is, time and time again, their pride. “I was never involved in politics before this Tea Party thing.” Yet they are persistently ignorant about the specifics of The Constitution, especially the Second Amendment they hold so dear.

    One begs the question, would any other Democrat elected to the high office have spurred the Tea Party movement, or was it something specific about this president that suddenly motivated all of these previously disenfranchised voters?

    Which, by the way, is a lie. The numbers for the 2010 election were as low as they’ve ever been for a mid-term, so it’s not like the Tea Party suddenly woke up the half of the nation that never seems to be able to make it to vote on election day in the first place.

    The Tea Party are astroturf, all they are is a noise machine, and the greatest thing they offer the political landscape is the fracturing of the Republican lock-step–as evidenced by this vote.

    The worst thing I feel for them is that there are those who were generally interested in breaking that paradigm until Sarah Palin showed them the way … right back into the maw of the conservative agenda from whence they were spit up in the first place.

    They are not patriotic Americans, they are frightened conservatives.

    It’s not the “conservative” part that worries me.

    It’s the fear.

    What are they afraid of? What country is it they “want back?” Maybe they thought the McCarthy era was a good thing.

    I respectfully disagree.

  • Guest

    Anyone “feeding” this vegetable brain will just insure his return. IGNORE!!!

  • Guest

    The Administration would strongly prefer enactment of reauthorizing legislation that would extend these authorities until December 2013. This approach would ensure appropriate congressional oversight by maintaining a sunset, but the longer duration provides the necessary certainty and predictability that our Nation’s intelligence and law enforcement agencies require as they continue to protect our national security. However, the Administration does not object to H.R. 514, which, if enacted, would extend these authorities through December 8, 2011

    .but the longer duration provides the necessary certainty and predictability that our Nation’s intelligence and law enforcement agencies require as they continue to protect our national security.

    As they learn how to process the immense amounts of data that is otherwise lost with today’s technology. They need just a little more time before their snooping is perfected. Then they can do away with the patriot act.

  • Iconoclasm

    Yeah birdbrain, natural law, or Common law! Do you question this? You can’t really be that stupid, can you? ROTFLHAY!

  • Iconoclasm

    Yep, by the same criminals that gave you the Federal Reserve!

  • Anonymous

    President Abraham Lincoln declared A State of Emergency and suspended the organic Constitution for the united States of America in 1860.
    This State of Emergency has never been lifted, and has been reaffirmed by each subsequent Administration.
    This country has been in a State of Emergency for 150 years!

    http://republicoftheunitedstates.org

  • Anonymous

    america’s enabling act. who says the nazi’s never taught anyone anything?

  • Rush Goofbaugh

    How can you “respect” the office that commits war crimes? The person and the office deserve no respect at all. The office should be in shame and the person should be sent to prison. Please tell me you are not an apologist for the war crimes of the US government! Give me something to be proud of.

  • Balthazars Rebellion

    Sounds like the “they” part of US government are going to keep ramming it in until it passes. Now they want it up for a “regular” vote by which they are now admitting that this is a “controversial” bill. This Patriot act was on the tables in complete form way before 9/11 happened. This has been the plan all along..to give the fed more power than the people. Too bad all it did was lay the foundation to build Nazi agencies inside the US upon.

  • Guest

    I agree… this is nothing to be happy about.

  • Anonymous

    Well said, although the reason I never referred to George W. Bush as “Chimp” is because I rather like chimpanzees and see no reason to insult them.

  • BrainRagYell

    You are promoting economic anarchy.

    Taxes are necessary in a “democracy.” You leave shit up to private entities to get it done, and you’re going to have THE FLINTSTONES passing for Anthropological Science and you won’t have to worry about what roads you travel on because your car won’t be able to cross any bridges that connect them — they’ll either have a private toll that puts a massive dent in your daily wage or have already collapsed from infrastructure neglect.

    America’s fucked up, yes, due to shameless de-regulation which begins with Reagan and trails through to Clinton, but if you think this country is governed by literal tyranny–economic or otherwise–you’re an intellectual infant who doesn’t deserve the First Amendment right you so willfully abuse.

  • Wyrdless

    I’m sure he will try. But the tea party reps were sent to congress to restore individual liberty and bust the deficit.

    That is why they voted against the patriot act. It doesn’t matter what Rush says it matters what congress does.

  • Anonymous

    temporary… the police state will never allow continuance of this act to falter… watch: within a few weeks (if not sooner) an extension will pass…

  • BrainRagYell

    You mean “Republican” as in “those who serve the Republic,” right? Because, you know, otherwise you’re herding cats. The Republican Party loves this bill because they like it when their base lives in a state of fear.

  • Anonymous

    No one here has been owned by your deep ignorance.
    Keep your nightmare alive though, maybe you’ll wake up screaming!

  • BrainRagYell

    The question isn’t whether they write you back, it’s whether you reach out in the first place.

    And yes, tons of letters piling up in their office affects their decision making processes.

    Of course, you’ve already thrown up your hands, so, you know, you’re now free of culpability.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    Yep, and you’ll have right-wingers to thank for the ability of government to violate the Constitution.. good job.

  • Wyrdless

    “”But it appears the bill was controversial enough to convince some two dozen tea party-backed Republican freshmen to join a majority of Democrats in voting against it, The Hill reported.”"

    I realize there has been a lot of vitriol and whatever. But doesn’t this particular vote against the patriot act on tea party lines against the neo-cons make you think for a minute that maybe just maybe the tea party isn’t 100% evil?

    Don’t actions in congress speak louder than Rush?

  • BrainRagYell

    Though I agree this is a messed up bill and I want it to disappear, this is definitely not George Bush’s version of this bill.

    Of course, that’s a bullshit concession–it should just go away.

    I still think conventional law enforcement mingled with targeted operations is the way to handle the “war” on terror.

    Of course, all “wars” on “abstractions” also need to come to an immediate end, and I shan’t hold my breath there either.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    You mean, the reality that the right-wingers in this country don’t really care about the Constitution or your rights, but instead want to create an Orwellian police state?

  • Anonymous

    The Patriot Act is the opposite of Democracy.

    It is an act of a desperate fearfull people who have lost their way, and have thrown away their constitution, and common sense.

    The Patriot Act must be stuck down and thrown into the Bin of Foolish mis-guided history.

  • BrainRagYell

    I don’t know why I got an image in my head of Cheney at his desk like Pacino at the end of SCARFACE, only it’s anthrax smeared across his nose instead of cocaina.

    I do think Cheney could snort a kilo of anthrax and just become the stronger for it.

  • H.P. Loathecraft

    Pretty useful for the oligarchs though.

  • H.P. Loathecraft

    “But doesn’t this particular vote against the patriot act on tea party lines against the neo-cons make you think for a minute that maybe just maybe the tea party isn’t 100% evil?”

    Tea Party: Not racist but #1 with racists

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    And the 16th was meant to gather corporate profits from companies that were using word games to avoid taxes.. The courts had ruled that “a mans labor” can not be taxed, so corporations said “transforming materials to goods takes labor.. our profits are derived from labor, therefore not taxable.”.. that’s why the 16th says “from whatever source derived”, and it can only apply to corporations to avoid being in violation of the Constitution (no direct taxes, must be apportioned or tariffs or excise taxes only).

    Not that most people or the IRS or Government will care about some simple facts.

  • trank

    the teabaggers are going to do what their talk radio kings tell them- that’s the way it’s been for 20 years and that’s why we’re in this disaster, that’s why we got bush and the patriot act in the first place. and the talk radio kings generally read scripts and talking points supplied by the main right wing think tanks. that used to be coordinated by rove and others like him- now they’re less coordinated in their massage. that is part of the problem with the GOP/tea party ‘split’. but just listen to limbaugh this morning, and see how hannity and all the rest reinforce the same fear of terrorism we need the patriot act bullshit and you’ll see the teabaggers follow.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    not even that long.. it failed a “trick vote” that needed 2/3s, it will next go to a full vote that only needs a majority.

    Unless they manage to get a poison pill amendment on it, it’s going to pass with ease very soon.

  • Wyrdless

    The tea party hasn’t been around for 20 years and didn’t put the patriot act in place. Remember it was a dozen tea party FRESHMAN (first term) who voted against the procedural vote on the patriot act. All the old Neo-Con republicans voted for PA. As a tea party activist, I am psyched that they actually voted down the PA since I never supported it.

    Since the Tea Party demonstrably did NOT vote along rush Limbaugh lines, don’t you think that might indicate that he isn’t in total control of them?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    Unfortunately, you’re missing a few points about the teabaggers. Their idea of “government waste” is any and all welfare programs for poor citizens, while the bulk of them (certainly not all) support the large military and subsidies for corporations/agri business.

    While there may be a few things we can agree on (showing just how insane the Establishment right-wing is), they are still a core of pro-business and anti-helping-the-poor. … basically, if you replaced every establishment right-winger with teabaggers (the kind you’re touting), sure we’d get rid of idiocy like the Patriot Act, but we’d also lose the Civil Rights Act, all welfare programs, and a vast majority of the regulations over corporations. — being able to smoke a joint is a small consideration when you’re starving to death in the streets.

  • Anonymous

    It was for show last night. nothing will change.

  • Anonymous

    You probably have a Republican Congressman, I’ve heard that about them. Who is your rep?

  • Anonymous

    You’re right about it, but that’s because no one EVER calls their congressman to scream at them.

  • Anonymous

    Heard from a friend in Illinois that his representative, Don Manzullo, knows the Patriot Act is unpatriotic, but the wuss still voted to extend it. Manzullo, in my opinion, = the typical scared of his own shadow Republican pussy!

  • trank

    the teabaggers are essentially the face of the talk radio base that has been dragging american politics right the last 20 years, since reagan killed the fairness doctrine.

    the GOP subsidized and built the radio monopoly and has been dominating media and politics much of that time under the noses of the left, which ignores it along with most dems and analysts, because there is no written record of the groundwork it does and they can’t stand to listen to it.

    the teabagggers were drawn out of the closet to scream at town hall meetings and the reason they weren’t acting and reading scripts as some have said is because when they scream 2+2=3 they really believe it because they’ve been hearing it like that for years from cowards hiding behind call screeners.

    yes they may go off on their own once in a while but they were birthed on talk radio- the reality they live in is full of talk radio distortions and lies and ignorance – crap that needs coordinated unchallenged repetition that’s not possible with TV and print.

    just listen to a little of their gods today and limbaugh will have a list of excuses they can use to rationalize their puking on the constitution- which i suspect they will do, just as many of the same people called the dems that voted against it originally traitors.

  • trank

    PS – i would like to think there are some in the Tea Party that are really thinking independently but most of the crap is racist and talk radio based- many of the Tea Party members can be asked – “where were you when the bushies were crapping all over the constitution, torturing, and lying us into war?”

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism

    “I know this is a Neo-Liberal site”

    You’re so completely wrong that I have to think it reaches your core opinion factory.

    And the fact that you want to play the “false left/right paradigm” game and pretend it’s not the reality based situation of a “two party lie” (Dem/Rep is the false paradigm, not the core ideologies of “left/right”, which is itself an inane over simplification) tells me all I need to know.

    Left/Right are measures on a scale, but we have two major scales we’re dealing with.. social policy and economic policy (and that’s partially overly simplified). A single “left” or “right” can’t stand because it implies two choices, but we have at least 4 directions of political thought.

    And generally speaking, it _is_ the “right’s” fault, on both scales.. economically wanting to let the few and their business interests drive all economics drives us to Fascism.. and socially, wanting to legislate morality rooted in religion stifles individual Liberty and one’s ability to pursue their own happiness. — in that regard, generically applying “left” might make sense, but many Dems are far from “left”, even on both scales.

    Democracy can not function with only “two opposing parties”, as current events shows. My economically right-leaning grandfather left the Republican Party (he’s an independent now) and voted for Bill Clinton.. know why? The abortion issue.. as conservative as he generally is, he didn’t think the government had a right to dictate to women what they should do with their own bodies and medical care. …. Two parties can not fully represent the four base directions that exist, so the core “false paradigm” is to pretend Dem/Rep is viable.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    Correct, government doesn’t make the world go around… it just keeps you from being crushed as it does.

  • Wyrdless

    “”Tea Party: Not racist but #1 with racists “”

    I can’t argue with that since I actually did meet a white nationalist at a rally once and you certainly aren’t going to find them at a democrat rally. However, racists are not even close to a mainstream view in the tea party.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    He doesn’t get the concept of “consent of the governed provides the power to those governing”. He doesn’t understand that if two people agree on something they are bound to their agreement.

    It’s not just economic anarchy he’s promoting, it’s all out State of Nature kind of anarchy. No rules, no authorities, just trusting that everyone will agree to the 4 base rules he thinks are the only natural law… theft, rape, murder, .. and I forget the 4th. I guess my question is, who, by his thinking, has the right to hold someone accountable if they break one of his 4 laws? Only the victims? .. and who has the authority to verify a claim of “justice” if, say, I kill someone and claim they stole from me.. That person is dead and I simply claim they violated natural law against me.. who has the authority to say/do anything about it, or to even check in to it?

  • Anonymous

    It doesn’t matter if they rescind the unPatriot Act. The Military Junta which runs our Surveillance State has DEW weapons that no one can detect and it has the will to slowly kill dissenters. See: theintrovertspeaks.com; torturedinamerica.org and the youtube videos of Kevin Canada. Nineteen eighty four is here — and the Shadow Government doesn’t give a hoot about any laws.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    “that maybe just maybe the tea party isn’t 100% evil?”

    Not 100%, no.. they aren’t raping and killing and eating their young or anything.. but they want to “fix the deficit” by telling poor people to “just die already!” while giving corporations more cash and rolling back 100 years of Civil Rights gains.

    I’d give them about 95% vile (not evil).

  • trank

    go kucinich, but you expected a black man to be allowed to walk into the white house and clean house? so you didn’t like the torture under bush? did you tell any of those 600 limbaugh stations that are still selling CLUB GITMO t-shirts? you must not have been paying attention to think obama could walk in and take on a US military and CIA and JD full of bush fundamentalists. we have a talk radio monopoly going full blast all day lying us into wars and selling freedom for banksters and wall street toadies and big corp and activist republican supremes and global warming denial and making excuses for torture and threatening our reps and what little media we have and the ‘activist’ Left sticks their fingers in their ears because it gives them headaches to listen to it.

  • Anonymous

    I would hope so….Conservative “ayes” were what put my “Resolution against the Patriot Act” over the top in our small town in Maine.
    Their reasoning was along libertarian lines: to the prevailing conservative argument of “This doesn’t affect you as long as you’re a law-abiding citizen”, they chose my argument: “If they’ve GOT it, they will USE it…eventually on everyone”.
    I guess we’ll see how this plays out.

  • Wyrdless

    You are right on both accounts. I have found that there are three different
    kinds of tea partiers

    1> 50% – Right wing radio goons – generally pro-war
    2> 30% – Ron Paul devotes – Anti-bailout and anti-war
    3> 20% – Bat shit crazy lunatics – Sad but true. Think Christine O’Donnell

    Ron Paul started the ground swell and the goons got on board becasue the
    liberty bandwagon = money and the standard politicians will be all over that
    like flies on honey. The Ron Paul Money Bomb was the single most effective
    grassroots fundraiser ever, you gotta know the goons want that money and
    don’t want the boat rocked.

    The people in the Ron Paul wing were organizing during Bush while the goons
    were asleep listening to talk radio. I hope that the Ron Paul wing of the
    Tea Party will ultimately transmute the goons into anti-war fiscal
    conservatives.

    I was handing out DVDs about the loss of civil rights, election fraud and
    the coming financial disaster from 2004-2008. I voted for Nader and never
    supported the wars.

  • Anonymous

    …except GW the Chimperor brought more disrespect to the “Office” than anyone in history since Reagan…so far.

  • Anonymous

    …not to mention, he wasn’t even legally ELECTED!

  • Anonymous

    Dire times do strange bedfellows make!

  • CozmicSeer

    You can bet that those in power are going to fight for this like it was food for a starving man. The military and militarized law enforcement can’t have anyone messing with their dictatorial powers on how they treat most of us as second class citizens. And they call the terrorists our enemies!

    Too bad they don’t fight for our rights with the same zeal.

  • Anonymous

    I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for them to wise up, though, even if some of them are “waking up” (indeed, where WERE they during Bush/Cheney?).
    Their self-induced and willful Ignorance makes it highly unlikely that they will become anything more than they are already: the Faux-populist “face” of the Republican party; the brainwashed “Numbers” they need to get their politicians elected, so they can continue to serve their true “Base” of wealthy Corporatists, to the detriment of all, including those poor deluded ones thsat follow them.

  • Anonymous

    If their loyalties really lay with their class, they’d have figured out which side their butter is on by now, instead of still waiting for it to trickle down on them!

  • Rush Goofbaugh

    Yes… just like the last war criminal that held the office, bush. When will WE hold these corporate christian war criminals accountable?

  • Anonymous

    (good name for you!)
    Taxation is not the problem…it’s their F*cked up priorities about what to SPEND it on….or are you one of those who complains about the roads falling apart while bitching about paying taxes that would fix them…while waving your flag and cheering the military, where over half of our hard-earned tax dollars go?

  • Anonymous

    Exactly! Income tax on workers WAGES is illegal!
    Only capital gains and profits should be taxed!

    This is where our Capitalist system went off the rails.

  • trank

    600 radio stations with limbaugh on have been selling CLUB GITMO t-shirts and i’m sure there’s one in your neighborhood. they also sold the war and made excuses for the war criminals. right now their taking free potshots at everything liberal and democratic, everything that isn’t pro war free market bullshit. did you complain to them?

  • Anonymous

    Good… step one… now vote it down in the House… then you can end the wars… and then we’ll talk about the next step…

  • Anonymous

    Yup!
    And Hitler did that right after the Reichstag Fire that “enabled ”
    him to go to war….sound familiar?

  • Anonymous

    Power – once taken – is rarely given back. Land of the free . . . sure comparatively speaking, but is that really what the Founders were after?

  • Anonymous

    I’ve always pictured him still lurking in the bowels of the Whitehouse “secret government”.

  • Anonymous

    And fuck Boner too.

  • Rush Goofbaugh

    Look… repuks are assholes and there is nothing I can do about that… i’m not going to join them. Are you an apoligist for this war criminal government?

  • Anonymous

    Haha! Apparently the new Majority Whip, Rep. Kevin McCarthy, can’t count. This makes John Boehner and Eric Cantor look like incompetent fools.

  • trank

    war crimes go way back. it’s one thing to idealistically criticize obama for not taking on the CIA, military, wall street, and the republicans but how can the left do that while allowing their air waves to be filled with the enabling rationalizations and constant attacks on their representatives. every day the republicans set up soapboxes on every corner and stump in the country, protected by call screeners, and scream liberals are thieves and traitors and their causes will destroy the country and the left just walks by with their ipods in their ears. the left cannot claim it is getting their reps backs until there is picketing and boycotts of those stations and their local sponsors. otherwise they get a free speech free ride and the whining left cannot expect any of their reps to stick their necks out.

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/6EX2KJ7LSZMDCBZWCH62Q7CABY Sandra

    Paul, Kucinich, and Paul have our backs!

  • Anonymous

    You stimulated my interest on that one, but I think your mistaken. Lincoln suspended habeas corpus in 1861, but the Supreme Court later declared the act unconstitutional, thus nullifying it. If I’m wrong please send a link with more detail (I was a bit confused by your link talking about the “christian nation”).

  • Rush Goofbaugh

    Well said… And brainrag never looked up the word “Anarchy” as a political system and doesn’t know that we don’t have a “democracy”.

    Anarchy : a theory that regards the absence of all direct or coercive government as a political ideal and that proposes the cooperative and voluntary association of individuals and groups as the principal mode of organized society.

  • Rush Goofbaugh

    News flash… we don’t have a “democracy” here or anywhere on this planet. Economic anarchy is what we engage in 95% of the time. Check out the Venus project.
    http://www.thevenusproject.com/
    The world is changeing… try to keep up.

  • http://twitter.com/honorablelordk Karim Walker

    Maybe the Teabaggers have a shred of decency after all. I wouldn’t hold my breath

  • Rush Goofbaugh

    Consent of the governed… when did I give my consent for bush or obomber to commit war crimes? You know we are mostly on the same page… But you and I are not holding the “governors” accountable, that my friend is a failed system.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    I agree completely that our “system” has been hijacked, but the reason it was is because too many of the governed actually do consent to war crimes and the like.

    The Plutes have created a society of ignorant consumers, just like they wanted. While doing so they hijacked the levers of power..

    That doesn’t mean the core concepts are wrong or flawed, it just means you have to have an informed and engaged public if you want to have a valid, viable, functioning Democracy. Our current system may not be working as designed, but that doesn’t mean the design is flawed. A good analogy might be, you can’t say a car is poorly designed just because some drunk drove one through a diner. … phrased another way, we need to get the drunks out from behind the wheel of government :)

  • Rush Goofbaugh

    Not idealism… crimes were committed. I don’t care who committed them. Let’s clean it up and paint the repuks as they are… apologist for the bush war crimes…they hate that! They did nothing about it when it was their team who was guilty… why not????? Is it possible to win an election apologizing for war crimes?

  • Anonymous

    Posey

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    Yes.. Anarchy.. like the Cavemen had.

    We have a Democratic Republic, often called a Democracy. It is not a Direct Democracy applied to all laws, but that’s because “modern society” is very complicated and it is a full time job to keep it all sorted.. if we all spent all our time keeping it sorted, we’d never get any commerce or living done.

    Anarchy in a Monetary System is not a valid mechanism for an orderly society in the modern world. … I’m with you, The Venus Project.. no “government”, just everyone living their lives with all needs met… but you have to wrest the natural resources out of the hands of the few, first. Since they will never “volunteer” that, Anarchy won’t do it.

    To get to the future, we must evolve as all natural things do. We need to become a Socialism while increasing mechanization.. then we can step into a better future as detailed by The Venus Project.

  • Rush Goofbaugh

    You are 100% correct… the repukes consent to war crimes… and relish it. Let’s paint them with that bright blood red color and see where that takes us. The problem is many “dems” are guilty too and nobody wants to be caught in the crossfire. So we don’t hold the repuks accountable and we don’t hold the dumbs accountalbe… and we wonder why the “system” isn’t working???

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    If the Founders were alive today, during our technologically miraculous times, I’m guessing they would prefer something like http://www.thevenusproject.com where man could just live their lives, investigate, research, learn, grow, explore, etc. etc.

    The Founders were from a completely different existence than what we have now. They could have never imagined a world like what we have, so tiny and crowded. They were Liberals and Intellectuals, and they warned against letting corporations (and the vile men that run them) have any power. Today, we’ve handed over the planet to some of the most vile people in history.

  • trank

    i like the idealism but until the right has so much power to shout over anything obama and the dems do, especially with the mil-industrial complex so powerful, they will continue to extract compromises. it is politics, even as people continue to die from torture. it took many protests and much activism to even get the slightest mention of central american death squads and torture by our ‘leading edge’ news shows like 60MIN and ted koppel. as long as team limbaugh can scream TRAITOR all day from 1000 of our loudest radio stations at those who would challenge the torturers- keep trying.

  • Jaimie11

    Just think if British and US intelligence did not travel the world looking for ways to destabilize any group, government, country, that does not toe the line in regard to our presumed rights to freely flowing cheap oil, there would be no terrorism. We have a major responsibility in having created it in the place.

    For instance, Saddam Hussein’s biggest fault was not that he was a brutal dictator, no it was that he wished to increase the flow of oil into markets and make money for himself, just as our politicians do, and Iraq. If he had done that the artificial scarcity desired by Big Oil to increase profits would have not been possible.

    Oh, and a reminder of who gets rewarded at the CIA – not the effective ones but the flubs – forces a person to wonder just what our objectives are anyway.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/27/AR2005052701618.html

    This sort of behavior only adds to the evidence suggesting the Patriot Act is not meant to prevent terror and protect the American people. Rather, it is meant to control the people
    and crush freedom until we are all pliant as simpletons and fools.

  • Rush Goofbaugh

    seriously… name calling…. does not qualify for debate. I’ll take natural law over whatever the hell it is we have now, where the elite commit war crimes with impunity.

  • trank

    limbaugh just explained that 8 freshmen didn’t know what they were doing voting against it (that alone will get more than a few dittoheads screaming at their offices on phone) and the heritage foundation is on the job explaining how they should vote the next time. that settles it.

  • Jakrabt

    Then it won’t mind if we just ditch this one then…. for the Hell of it.

  • Jakrabt

    Just because your kid runs with a bad crowd don’t make him bad…

  • Iconoclasm

    You are promoting economic anarchy.

    Howso? Did you even bother to read the solution to a tax free society?

    Taxes are necessary in a “democracy.”

    A Democracy is two Wolves and a Sheep trying to figure out what’s for dinner?

    You leave shit up to private entities to get it done, and you’re going to have THE FLINTSTONES passing for Anthropological Science and you won’t have to worry about what roads you travel on because your car won’t be able to cross any bridges that connect them — they’ll either have a private toll that puts a massive dent in your daily wage or have already collapsed from infrastructure neglect.

    Who said anything about leaving anything up to private entities? But, for the sake of argument the government fucks up just about everything it does!

    America’s fucked up, yes, due to shameless de-regulation which begins with Reagan and trails through to Clinton, but if you think this country is governed by literal tyranny–economic or otherwise–you’re an intellectual infant who doesn’t deserve the First Amendment right you so willfully abuse

    If I’m an infant, you’re a Foetus, and a braindead one at that! You are obviously lacking in Reading and Comprehension skills if that is your take on my post. Go back to sleep!

  • Iconoclasm

    You must have missed this:

    Over and over again the same indoctrinated mindless dribble! First off, I NEVER said that their should be no government. I simply do not like an overbearing and corrupt government as we undoubtedly have today. There is a way this country can be run WITHOUT taxation. Yes, that’s right…..TOTALLY WITHOUT TAXATION! Taxation is no different than its parallel used by the Mafia where they strongarm people to give them protection. Taxation is just a euphemism for armed robbery!

    In 1913 an unconstitutionally created entity known as the Federal Reserve was created by the very rich and power hungry Banksters bought off Congress. This entity has commandeered our governing body and now OWNS that governing body! The Fed, as it’s dearly referred to, takes in 6 times as much interest as our government takes in taxes. Imagine that?!!!
    To make this country truly free as we have been told repeatedly that it is, We the People, need to take the Federal Reserve back from these Bankster criminals and put it back in the hands of the government. NOT THE CONGRESS however as they have already sold us out more than once. I assure you, this will not be an easy task as they are ruthless and will not just roll over. ASSsuming we could wrest the Fed from these criminals, we would then end taxation and take over the interest from the criminals and use it all to run government. This way, funding for government would be VOLUNTARY. Only those that took out loans would be paying to run the government. NO MORE TYRANNY!

    We then would need to dismantle both the MIC and the DOJ along with its statutory laws and federal codes and go back to Natural Law.
    Then we would truly be the land of the free!

    Good people create governments to protect themselves from the criminals. unfortunately. the criminals adapt and run for office!” – Eric Williams

  • Iconoclasm

    We have all been duped from the start. Remember the hand on your heart while reciting the Pledge of Allegiance? Pretty good indication of a brainwashing taking place, huh? Compliments of the government run indoctrination clincs euphemistcally referred to as the Public School System!

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    Ironically, I don’t cover my heart during the pledge (nor do I say it).. I even got tossed out of school once, because of it.. and my mother stood behind me and defended my right to my individuality.

    You’re claiming “indoctrination” and using that as a shield against reason. I don’t know that you can be helped because you don’t want to be.. you want to rail against perceived injustices.

  • Anonymous

    I’m all for non-violence, Sandi2, but I do not believe working within the system of our faux representative democracy, as rigged as it now is (complete with routinely electronically stolen elections), stands any real chance of turning things.

    That said, I don’t wish to discourage people from continuing to work within the system. I would, however, like to see creative, non-violent, en-masse, and prolonged demonstrations taking place in DC demanding and end to such things as the USA-Patriot Act, government sponsored torture, our killer drone program, the unregulated Fed, non-auditable electronic voting systems overseen by corporations, etc — protests not unlike what Egypt’s courageous citizenry is presently undertaking.

  • Anonymous

    unusual to see “conservatives” who actually defend a traditional conservative principle – the right of the individual to privacy.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    “First off, I NEVER said that their should be no government. ”

    Actually, you asked how any one person can have authority over another since it’s not natural (part of natural law).. that process is CALLED “government” (more specifically, we’re talking about our Democracy here, consent of the governed that you keep railing against).

    I think everyone here would agree that our out of control government needs to be reigned in, the corrupt elements need to be removed _because_ we do NOT consent to be governed by “corrupt criminals”.. And there are mechanisms in place for that, called elections. That system has been hijacked by the right-wing, by corporate interests.. and short of a revolution, fixing that isn’t going to be easy.. but it starts with everyone who’s paying attention getting out there and exposing the right-wing abuses and lies (including those done by some Democrats.. the D/R is immaterial). .. vote anything but Establishment, never vote party ticket, know your candidates..

    And this nonsense about not paying taxes, that just fails to understand or accept that “life is not free”.. every service you want in a civil society (police, roads, hospitals, etc) costs money. …. I’ve been tossing around your idea of a nationalized central banking system and using interest for revenue… 1) the same corrupt interests that are a problem now will never let that happen.. and 2) even if we did take over the Federal Reserve, the “oppressive government” is still dictating interest rates and you’ll still have people bitching about that, and it becomes the base for the _entire_ economy while putting a lot of risk on “the public” and doesn’t assure easy adjustments to funding systems (taxes can go up and down year to year and the money is soon there, but payback on loans can take decades).

    I’m for nationalizing a LOT of thing that are currently being used to abuse us.. but that means “government control”, and you still have the same problem of the citizenry needing to stay on top of their elected officials. Whether it’s taxes or a nationalized central bank, the core issue is the same… we need better diligence from the voters.

  • Guest

    I agree, but there is some confusion.

    Democracy is a political form of government in which governing power is derived from the people, by consensus, by direct referendum, or by means of elected representatives of the people. The “majority rule” is often described as a characteristic feature of democracy, but without governmental or constitutional protections of individual liberties, it is possible for a minority of individuals to be oppressed by the “tyranny of the majority”. Which is what we have now.

    A Republic (this is what the founders set up) is a state under a form of government in which the people, or some significant portion of them, retain supreme control over the government. This is what we used to have.

    Since 9/11 we have lost more of our liberties to the all powerful and all knowing Government. The Patriot Act and about a dozen other “acts” need to be tossed out along with ALL the politicians that think along those lines. Democrat or Republican alike should be slapped with high treason for what they have done to this once great nation.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_WY65XWJ6TQUD6SBHXDYDP3UZKM Kool

    would you just stop with the power grabbing and whoring? Buddha would be saddened by the state of the world today. F*CK the patriot act!

  • Rush Goofbaugh

    Yes you are correct…. there is a lot of brainwashing going on at the hands of the public school system and other gubmit institutions. The public school system did manage to educate me and I was able to see through all the bullshit, so why can’t others? I know some can’t or more likely don’t want to becasue it serves their war/power lust. There are a lot of good people on this list… you are one of them. A paradigme shift is happening… and we will ALL be a part of that.

  • Anonymous

    The tea party reps were sent to Congress to do whatever is best for the Koch brothers and their ultra-wealthy pals.

  • Anonymous

    Minor set back. Not to worry. It will be back.

  • Wyrdless

    Considering they just voted against the PA…
    Are you saying the Koch brother don’t like the patriot act?

  • Anonymous

    now you know why the tea party must be demonized by karl rove and chris matthews.

  • Anonymous

    I detest the stealth neocon currently “serving” as president – but I refer to him as Obama or Barack Obama (even though both names set off my spell-check, which I haven’t figured out how to disable).

    While I rarely referred to the even more despicable Bush as anything other than Bush or George Bush- or G W Bush to distinguish him from his father – I am also losing respect for the office: too many swine allowed to hold it. And it has come to represent much that our government was not set up to embrace. It is difficult to maintain respect for an office whose very holders disrespect so thoroughly. In the end, I fear it will be a losing battle.

  • Anonymous

    the only reason they didnt vote for this is because it wasnt harsh enough.
    No cameras in homes and bedrooms. Why should we allow terrorists places where they can plan stuff in private.
    Maybe we should all have ID chips implanted so we can weed out the terrorists. (or we could just use tattoos, they’re cheaper)
    Dont talk bad about these ideas, they will make life tougher for terrorists. And that is what we all want right??? Right ??? Dont you love America ??

  • Anonymous

    It would certainly be a good start!

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/42THFKXIPMJHQBIH6OPI4RVIDY Thebes

    This is what I have been saying since Obama took power.

    There are people in the Tea Party who side with us on personal liberty.

    Work with them.

    They aren’t all Palinheads, she just jumped in when the opportunity to co-opt the movement presented itself.

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/42THFKXIPMJHQBIH6OPI4RVIDY Thebes

    Reactionary comments like this won’t help reclaiming our decade lost liberties.

  • Anonymous

    Bingo! There is only one party–the Oligarchs. They will herd their little duckies back into the pen and pass this soon, without fanfare. Too much is at stake for their masters and they will not let such an opportunity slip between their slimy fingers. To allow a chink in the fascist state armor would be unforgivable.

  • Wyrdless

    That is HILARIOUS. You think the founders would have supported socialism with robots where a central computer would decide the allocation of resources?

    If money was eliminated, like in prison, it simply gets reinvented. Also, the idea that people can eliminate work by having automated factories, mines and heavy industry any time in the next 100 years is laughable.

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/42THFKXIPMJHQBIH6OPI4RVIDY Thebes

    The Tea Party started as an anti-war republican movement back when Bush II was in power.

    It was a libertarian movement (think anachists with money). After Obama got selected the mainstream right took it over. It still has many of its original elements.

    EACH TIME that a person on the Left makes a crude teabagger joke about how they are all thugs, it helps those who co-opted the movement convert these right-wing (but anti-authoritarian) dissidents to their mainstream right wing fascist agenda.

    Seek common ground with these libertarians and we can undo much of the harm Bush II and Obama have wrought upon our freedoms. Of course some on the left prefer an authoritarian left agenda, speak out against that whenever you see it.

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/42THFKXIPMJHQBIH6OPI4RVIDY Thebes

    Far TOO many readers here mistake politics for being a division of Left vs Right.

    It is more valid to view it as Authoritarian vs Free. A good number of people on the right prefer freedom to authoritarianism. But since both the authoritarians on the left and on the right are in power, we are getting fascism, and notice that it took both the left and right to bring us here.

    Band together with all those opposing tyranny and we can win back our liberties. Sort out welfare and health care and property rights after we no longer have to joke about being rounded up for gitmo.

  • Anonymous

    Don’t be so sure. The Tea Party candidates were bankrolled by Freedom Works (Dick Armey, Steve Forbes, and other oligarchs) and other mainstream right wing mole organizations that have plenty to gain from fascism. I have no doubt that there are plenty of Tea Partiers whose values lie in individual liberty and deficit reduction, but the strings are being pulled by people like Armey and Forbes, which means the movement was co-opted before it had a chance to be of any real substance.

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/42THFKXIPMJHQBIH6OPI4RVIDY Thebes

    The Tea Party started as an antiwar Republican movement during the reign of Bush II.

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/42THFKXIPMJHQBIH6OPI4RVIDY Thebes

    We have one party in America, the business party. Anyone else is labeled an “extremist”.

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/42THFKXIPMJHQBIH6OPI4RVIDY Thebes

    Now THAT is a ticket I would support!

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/42THFKXIPMJHQBIH6OPI4RVIDY Thebes

    Most right leaning libertarians (original Tea Party, not Palinheads) are as against the “Patriot” Act as we are.

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/42THFKXIPMJHQBIH6OPI4RVIDY Thebes

    The Tea Party started as an antiwar republican group under W.
    True, after Obama won, Palinheads took it over. But don’t smear them all with her brush.

    As for the Corporations, remind them that they are created as the literal embodyment of government privilege. Libertarians hate government’s private laws, they are inherently an aggression against the people. I’m fine with reducing mostly ineffective federal regulations IF we can end corporate personhood.

  • trank

    har de har har. i didn’t see them at any of the protests i went to.

    their talking points and myths are the same ones that have been pounded into the earholes of 50 mil talk radio listeners every week for the last 20 years. and their gods are so chicken they need call screeners to protect them from real calls. sadly, the monopoly ensures most of those 50 mil have no alternatives for free politics while driving or working and the left ignores it.

  • Iconoclasm

    Ironically, I don’t cover my heart during the pledge (nor do I say it).. I even got tossed out of school once, because of it.. and my mother stood behind me and defended my right to my individuality.

    That’s good!

    You’re claiming “indoctrination” and using that as a shield against reason. I don’t know that you can be helped because you don’t want to be.. you want to rail against perceived injustices.

    No I am claiming indoctrination because it is more a reality than your artificial entity government as well as it system of jurisprudence, which is a long way from freedom! People that believe that they are experiencing true, (or even close to true). freedom here in artificial entity United States are surely intoxicated by the brainwashing they have been unwittingly bombarded with. This is nothing more than a matrix created in the 1770′s and sold to us all, just like organized religion.

  • Anonymous

    You are correct sir.
    It was held by Chief Justice Taney shortly after the outbreak of the Civil War that President Lincoln did not have power to suspend the privilege of the writ, Congress alone possessing that authority. The President had suspended the privilege in several instances where former officers of the army or the government had gone over to the Confederacy and were active in the North against the Union. Such persons were put in prison and held without trial.

    To set the matter at rest Congress later authorized President Lincoln to suspend the writ of habeas corpus.

    http://barefootsworld.net

  • Iconoclasm

    Man, I don’t know, but sure hope you’re correct! Unfortunately, by some of the responses I have been getting on this board, it’s not going to happen soon enough! LOL!

  • Anonymous

    If you want to discover the answers to some of your questions, here is a good place to start:
    http://barefootsworld.net
    Also look elsewhere, crack open those history books.
    If you will excuse I have much homework to do.

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/42THFKXIPMJHQBIH6OPI4RVIDY Thebes

    Palin and Rush’s talking points are pounded on talk radio. This group did the biggest ever one day fundraiser for Ron Paul, who has been consitantly anti-war.

    Both the mainstream Left and the mainstream Right work together to ensure that there is not anti-authoritarian or anti-corporate choices in politics.

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/42THFKXIPMJHQBIH6OPI4RVIDY Thebes

    Nope, they are just repeating mainstream democrat talking points. Must keep politics within the mainstream or the people might take the power back.

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/42THFKXIPMJHQBIH6OPI4RVIDY Thebes

    Actually if you took time to learn about different political movements in America, instead of being just a democrat version of a dittohead, you would KNOW that many on the right are libertarians and that the tea party was originally a libertarian movement supporting the likes of Ron Paul who has always been against the PA and similar tyranny.

  • Anonymous

    Give it time. They’ll be ‘straightened out.’

  • soverytired

    The Tea Party has done something here that I respect. Does this mean that that the TP is learning? Or is this just some common ground? I hope they are learning to see through the GOP misleading propaganda but the TP’ers have a LOT to catch up on. In any event, good job on stopping this anti-american “patriot” act.

  • trank

    ron paul didn’t start the tea party. he’s a ‘libertarian’ and if his fundraiser got money because he was anti war it demonstrates the real feeling in the country vs the chickenhawk warmongers who use the radio monopoly to create and mobilize a misinformed pro-corporate pro-war constituency (the teabaggers) for whatever they want to push or obstruct in congress. i guarantee if the so-called tea party was presented with an iraq type situation they’d be screaming off with sadams head again just like they did before, because they want what the limbaughs and palins give them and they are ignorant and many are racist. we won’t get anti authoritarian anything until the talk radio imbalance is fixed- it is that well coordinated giant soapbox reading think tank talking points for billionaires that is the biggest political correctness cop and censor by threat that makes sure people who speak truth to power are screamed at and threatened, whether they are in politics or media.. and if you think both sides are to blame here maybe you just started paying attention.

  • Guest

    You are so right. Chomsky nailed it a while back…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJUA4cm0Rck&feature=player_embedded#

  • Anonymous

    They didn’t “vote down” the so-called ‘patriot’ act. They voted not to allow a vote without further debate.

    Big difference.

    Votes like this are often used to add copy to press releases/fund-raising mailers…. ‘So-and-so voted AGAINST the patriot act!!’, when in reality they only voted ‘no’ on a procedural vote, and we’ve yet to see how the cards will eventually fall.

    Better than a ‘yes’ vote, but it is essentially meaningless at this point. We should reserve judgment until the actual vote.

  • Anonymous

    They did NOT “vote against” the patriot act. They voted ‘no’ on a procedural vote involving the patriot act extension’s passage through the House. Not the same thing at all.

    A ‘no’ on this was better than a ‘yes’; but it doesn’t mean a thing just yet.

    Wait until the ACTUAL vote before you continue extolling the virtues of the tea party puppets.

  • Anonymous

    You keep saying they voted “against the patriot act”, wyrdless – but it’s not true.

    It was a procedural vote – Nothing more. The real ‘upperdown’ is yet to come.

  • Anonymous

    Not to mention the fact that the copy sent to congressional members for review was reprinted with significant changes the night before the vote. True story.

    Plus, everything that was ‘taken out’ of the PA in it’s most egregious form was later added piece-meal to other legislation. They got everything they wanted and a whole lot more. Total control, and absolutely no oversight – token or otherwise.

  • Anonymous

    lol, okay winger…So sorry to offend your delicate sensiblities!

    Your post reveals you know absolutely nothing about law/government….Just another winger, rattling off specious garbage.

    Disinformation and bullshit….Comfort food for republicans.

  • Anonymous

    Funny :)

    Regale us, iconoclasm. Regale us with YOUR definition of “common law”.

    Please. I’m begging.

    I KNOW you’re the smartest boy in mom’s basement, so do please define your terms.

  • Taleisin

    I suspect the sincerity of your usage of the word ‘dear’.
    I get it, one step forward, two steps back.

    I am wondering about all this talk of new terror threats.Yet there have been no arrests, no explosions. Maybe raising the color of the alert keeps the terrorist away. ;)

  • Wyrdless

    Ron Paul didn’t ‘start’ the tea party in the sense that he went out to create it just like he never did anything to organize the money bomb. He received the largest funds in 24 hours EVER and he didn’t do anything to organize the money bomb. It happened becasue he inspired ordinary middle class republicans to work towards civil liberties, fiscal conservatism and anti-war outlook. Things I’m sure you support.

    The Tea Party formed immediately after the election when Ron Paul lost. A lot of people put a lot of energy into Ron Paul and they didn’t stop when he wasn’t elected, many are still active. I have worked on two ballot initiatives since then in my home state.

    Just because MSM told you that Sarah Palin started it, doesn’t make it so. The Tea Party was around before Dick Armey and Sarah Palin were on the bandwagon. It isn’t hard to look that up.

    with regard to talk radio: Air America went bankrupt. NPR is doing well even without govt cash.

    I’m sure you are a cool person, you are clearly anti-war anti-fascist just like me and I totally respect that. It is far more important to be anti-war than anything else, becasue killing people for someone else’s bank account is about the worst and most dishonorable thing a man can do. I totally realize that a lot of people in the tea party deserve to be called ‘teabaggers’; I have met many idiots trying to get change in my state.

    People like me who were involved in the whole Ron Paul thing are 10 times more active than the talk radio puppets even though we are outnumbered. They don’t think, they don’t matter, they don’t have the ability to create new policy like the Ron Paul wing. That is why we can win anti-war victories, becasue fiscal conservatism always ends in reducing foreign adventurism. The establishment has had to move to the tea party to stay relevant and that is a success. I’m sorry about morons, I can’t control them either.

    People like me are involved in local ballot initiatives and over a hundred people (not me) are running for office for the first time in 2012, including young people.

    So please, can’t you cut the tea party a little break? the active people really do care.
    The people elected challenged the Patriot Act lets see what happens!

  • Wyrdless

    Why would you respect the US government?
    They have installed over a dozen violent dictators who tortured people, an action unworthy of the constitution and America.

    Obama has simply continued the policies of Bush with regard to war and other actually important matters.

    In addition, the governemnt recntly put 3 people in jail for 3 years for selling four loko
    http://www.foxnews.com/health/2011/01/13/loko-black-market-rise/

    3 people x3 years x$50,000 a year is $450,000 in tax money for a non-crime.
    Why don’t you pay for this crap for me if you like the government so much?

  • http://www.hippieland.net/ hippieland

    The patriot act is dead??Yaaaa!!! finally!!!!

  • Wyrdless

    “”They’ll be ‘straightened out.’ “”
    If they are I will eat my words.

    Until then, all bets are off. No one knows what is going to happen, this is a super volatile period in American history, we either win together on an anti-war basis or loose separately to the oligarchy.

  • Wyrdless

    Fair enough. You are 100% right.

    By the same token, let us not call the entire tea party puppets till they actually vote to eliminate freedom. If they hate freedom like the neo-cons, I will definitely be all over that just like you.

  • Wyrdless

    Your view point is very sound, but the protest by 8 FRESHMAN against the PA isn’t meaningless. If those 8 congressmen later pass it without amendment, it i will all be meaningless. To call it meaningless today is to not reserving judgment, and I will be the first to declare the tea party a failure if they do hate liberty.

    Hyper partisanship only continues oligarchy. If the anti-war people cooperated the oligarchy would fall. We are all Tunisia.

  • Sandi

    I do understand–I’ve been protesting since the early seventies. At times it does seem like a waste of time like when so many letters flooded the Capitol during the bailouts. We won–for a day–then in the dark of night “they” erased that victory as though it never happened.

    But, I now have grandchildren. I would prefer I didn’t have to don torch and pitchfork to give those grandchildren a better life. I’m not as energetic as I used to be. I’m willing. . . yes. . . but my body doesn’t react as easily to that will like it used to. I look at Egypt, Palestine, and Greece and am behind them 100% from my keyboard. But I pray we, in the U.S. will be able to walk behind Gandhi and MLK and create the needed change more peacefully. Like you, I fear that won’t be possible. Americans are really angry. When they finally agree on the object of that anger we’re all kind of stuck. We’ll all have to choose sides, won’t we?

  • Sandi

    I don’t play the Republican vs Democrat game. That’s mindless ideology. It’s a person’s actions that tell me who they are working for. And, viewed from my seat, most politicians of both sides are working for the opposition.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_FONW6K3ZWV4BU4ZTCDCSZHHH6E Mick Jagger

    No…they vote it in with simple majority next week. They are all traitors.

  • Wyrdless

    I learned about the School of the Americas and other BS from the new media not from MSM. You can never rely on Main Stream Media to tell the truth. The revolution will NOT be televised

    the ‘leading edge’ MSM will never help you defeat the wars since the oligarch system of defense contractors own the big 5 MSM in USA for the original purpose of supporting war. Ted koppel, and limbaugh included.

    Just like in:
    http://www.metatube.com/en/videos/5505/CONSPIRACY-THEORY-ROCK-Media-Opoly-TV-Funhouse/

  • trank

    that’s what i said, and why the radio has to be fixed first- it enables the rest. here’s one for you:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnrfuTUlqVs

  • Iconoclasm

    Common Law contains those customs which have, by long prescription, obtained the force of laws. It is distinguished from the statute law, which owes its authority to acts of Parliament.

    Common law is derived from natural law, which is the highest order of law without a doubt, I adhere to natural law. It is common sense to any sane and rational thinking individual that one does not steal, tresspass, rape or kill. All law is based on property. Prperty includes the self.

    Hope that clears thinks up for you.

    BTW, I realize you are on your knees a lot, but I don’t want any.

    Get back in the closet and go back to sleep!

    Good people create government to protect themselves from criminals, unfortunately, the smartest of criminals adapt and run for office.

  • Anonymous

    FINAL VOTE RESULTS FOR H R 514

    http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2011/roll026.xml

    To extend expiring provisions of the USA PATRIOT Improvement and Reauthorization Act of 2005 and Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act of 2004 relating to access to business records, individual terrorists as agents of foreign powers, and roving wiretaps until December 8, 2011

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2IPFTRQOUB6ZE7CLPT4SVH7QEU Jeff

    About time commonsense prevailed. The jackboot of government oppression, twisting of the constitution laws, the abuse of human rights are a disgrace and the world is looking on at USA hypocritical actions – preaching free speech and democracy while oppressing others (sometimes using foreign and domestic agencies) the very same at home and abroad!

  • Anonymous

    Some of the founders grew hemp and had slaves. Women couldn’t vote. It was a completely different world. They were trying to be Oliver Cromwell without the dictatorship but at the same time they stole land from people they considered to be savages. Check out that british Doc series called “Monarchy” with David Starkey. Saw some of it streaming on Netflix. I found it interesting. Maybe we need to acknowledge the fact that we still have Monarchy and that that in itself is not necessarily bad. Corporations are often Monarchy, CEO’s are Kings… Are the rulers benevolent or not? And how do we make them benevolent and accountable? King Charles I… Taking the head off and putting it back on… over and over again round we go.

  • Anonymous

    Thanx for the Link!

  • Rush Goofbaugh

    You did not offend me… I cannot be offended because I know what comes out of other people mouths is really “all about them”. Your post reveals that you don’t want serious debate and as for the law, you know as little as I know…. apparently. Now can we talk about another way to fund this government…. and make it accountable so they are NOT committing war crimes in “our” name? Or do think this government should be able to “break LAWS at will”?

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/6EX2KJ7LSZMDCBZWCH62Q7CABY Sandra

    BREAKING!!!!! Another emergency vote on the Patriot Act has been called for today (Thursday)! When it was voted down, Obama had Napolitano declare an emergency threat elevation, and demanded the House reintroduce the Patriot Act for a simple majority vote, two thirds not needed! Call or email your Congressman!!!!

  • Anonymous

    Your “natural law” is social darwinism, as i assumed. You’re an ignorant fool.

    You ever get the ‘system’ you claim to want, and you’ll see what natural law is really all about. It’s about murder, dead children, and survival of the best armed/most sociopathic. It’s the death knell of civilization, you laughable idiot child.

    You aren’t old enough to understand the ramifications of what you espouse (or you’re simply a dull-normal parrot). But here you are, yapping like dog. It’s obvious to everyone with a scintilla of intelligence that you’re absolutely clueless, iconoclasm.

    But you think you’re insightful :)

    Oh, and your insults are WEAK.

    Gbye little feller….Good luck with the whole stupidity thing….

  • Anonymous

    lol :)

  • Iconoclasm

    Darwinism? You’re a fucking retard! This has NOTHING to do with Darwinism you simp! Government is no different than the Boy Scouts on steroids! They have power, but no real authority. You’re just brainwashed into a belief system matrix and have no clue! The best part of your little peanut brain rolled down your daddys pet Monkeys ass when you were concieved and the remaining smegma is what you brandish as intellect. I am laughing at your inferioer intellect baby girl! You just embarrassed yourself again in public with your witlessness!

    When you grow up and grow a brain and can come up with some reading and comprehension skills, get back to me. As far as I am concerned, you’re beyond help. Stay in your little bubble little girl, as you’re too indoctrinated to reach!

    You’re correct about your scintilla of intelligence, thats about all you have a scintilla! ROTFLHAY!!!

    When you grow up and can understand the conversation and communicate like an adult, get back to me, otherwise just stay in your little bubble.

  • Iconoclasm

    By the way, you keep neglecting to answer the following questions, and you were the first to namecall, for the record:

    If I have no “Natural born” (or God given) authority to command you, and you have no “natural born” (or God given) authority to command me, how do two people combine their NON EXISTENT authority to command anyone else? Zero authority + zero authority combined still equals ZERO authority!

    What gives anyone the authority to vote?

    Your “Aristocratic” Founding Fathers were mostly Deists! Have you ever read The Age of Reason by Thomas Paine? I bet not! I’m thinking you’re probably a dimwit Bible thumper.

    Three questions:

    Where you born with any natural born or God given authority over anyone else?

    Was anyone else born with any natural born or God given authority over you?

    Is the United States of America real or an artificial entity?

    Yor failure to answer will be your acquiescence.

  • Anonymous

    I hate the patriot act – hell, things were already horrific before it was written – so i take no pleasure in asking: What do you think now? The same tea party peope (most of them…I haven’t looked up the name-by-name breakdown yet, but only 4 r’s were against it) that you praised voted for it today.

    It’s theater, truly – on both sides of the aisle. They both play their part in continuing the oppressive kleptocracy we currently ‘enjoy’.

  • Wyrdless

    I think it sucks. That isn’t even really an improvement over the 2001 vote.

    “”Just four Republicans, including Congressman Ron Paul, voted against the
    extension. On Tuesday 26 Republicans had voted against. The other three
    Republican nays were Chris Gibson (N.Y.), Raul Labrador (Idaho) and Tom
    McClintock (Calif.).”"

    This is why I don’t use stratch tickets, I don’t like being let down.

    At Least Rumsfeldt got boo’d at the CPAC when he got his award

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_MAIVTJ55D3PSU5TOGCTEMPKS7A Anonymous

    The Patriot Act needs to permanently be abolished, or be re-written to limit the scope of it’s authority to terror cases only. Even some republicans don’t want our civil rights taken away by over-zealous government agencies

    Many law enforcement officials have used the Patriot Act as another available tool for prosecuting non-terror related cases:

    http://www.talkleft.com/story/2003/09/27/326/54273

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A48011-2004Jul13.html

    http://www.infowars.com/print/patriot_act/examples.htm

  • http://www.facebook.com/joshb0t Joshua Barnes

    It’s time for the Orwellian named ‘Patriot Act’ be sent to the the memory hole. Re-authorize the Constitution!

  • Sarcasmo

    Wouldn’t it be wonderful to see this blossom into a Progressive / Libertarian Conservative alliance, Foreign occupations ended, no more corporate bailouts, Federal Reserve indicted, NAFTA repealed, marijuana decriminalized, there is so much more common ground than the media wants to acknowledge.

  • Anonymous

    whaddaya know, some good news, right? can i ask, though, that if the patriot act does ultimately fail – who is responsible for the actual stopping of the behaviors allowed by the act? how will we know that the wiretapping, etc, isn’t still happening? honest musings, no snark.

  • Anonymous

    Patriot Act is un-Constitutional!!…..throw it in the trash!!!

  • http://police-state-watch.blogspot.com/ JTWilliams

    Down with the Patriot Act! We must fight this abomination, unless you want to get rid of the 4th amendment, and the bill of rights. The federal govt can not be trusted; feds have written THEMSELVES 200,000 warrants, many after judges have turned down! Two million Americans have had their bank records thoroughly examined (without being told) thanks to the Patriot Act!

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