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Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood rejects ‘religious state,’ won’t seek presidency

By admin
Wednesday, February 9, 2011 9:41 EDT
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Representatives of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt said the opposition group would work to promote democracy and does not intend to field a candidate for the presidency, CNN reported Wednesday.

“The Muslim Brotherhood are not seeking power,” a member of the group’s media office, Mohammed Morsi, said at a news conference. “We want to participate, not to dominate. We will not have a presidential candidate, we want to participate and help, we are not seeking power.”

“We reject the religious state,” Mohammed Katatny, former head of the Muslim Brotherhood’s parliamentary bloc, added. “We are not responsible of the speeches and statements of external forces. The regime have been using the Muslim Brotherhood scarecrow to tell the world that the regime is the only one who can safeguard the country, but this is wrong and it is their way to try to ignore the people’s demands.”

The Muslim Brotherhood and other opposition groups participated in official talks with Egyptian Vice President Omar Suleiman last week.

Conservatives in the United States have warned that the pro-democracy uprising in Egypt could help the Muslim Brotherhood rise to power and embolden groups such as Hamas and Hezbollah.

On Tuesday, former House Speaker and Fox News contributor Newt Gingrich told CNN that the group “is a mortal enemy of our civilization.”

The group was removed from the US list of foreign terrorist organizations in the 1970s. Despite having officially renounced violence, many conservatives still consider the Muslim Brotherhood a danger to the United States and Israel.

“The problem we have is there are many elements in a popular revolt,” former Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld told Fox News’ Sean Hannity Tuesday. “Among them are extremists, like the Muslim Brotherhood. They tend to be not the largest, but the most extreme, the best organized, the best financed, and the most vicious.”

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said the Obama administration did not oppose the Muslim Brotherhood being included in dialogue with the embattled government so long as the group agreed to a peaceful.

 
 
 
 
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  • http://www.youtube.com/user/RepublicConstitution?feature=mhum TruthRegimes

    Everyone who can think already knew that the Muslim Brotherhood is/was a non-factor in Egypt. You cannot tell that to Fox and O’Really though because they launch panic attacks about it every day. Same with Limbaugh, Hannity, Weiner/Savage, and the rest of the Neo-Con warmonger chickenhawks who spew Islamophobic rhetoric daily.

  • Scuby

    But…But….But….Glen Beck said the muslims were taking over the world, with Obama helping them…Something about a “caliphate”…

  • http://gaia-health.com/ Heidi Stevenson

    What is with Raw Story? Right now, what’s happening in Egypt is stunning, astounding! The protest has grown bigger than yesterday – and yesterday was the biggest yet – and they’ve prevented the new cabinet from meeting in the parliament building.

    Even more significant is that there have been massive strikes all over the country! This could be the game changer.

    Yet, not a peep on any of it from Raw Story. This should be the biggest thing on the site – and if it doesn’t draw the biggest audience, so what? One would have hoped that Raw Story would have taken a more idealistic approach to this story. I’m disgusted.

  • Wyrdless

    It is nice to see the MSM disinformation machine breaking down.

    In the same vein, Al-Baradai, the western annointed leader of the Egyptian resistance, was not even included in the list of 25 negotiators by the people who are actually protesting I think that is strong evidence that he is a western shill.

  • http://www.tommyjonestheband.com RantingTommy

    and yet, here you are

    hmmm

  • Anonymous

    Eric Cantor Israel’s mouthpeice in DC is on record that the MB will take over the world. If so then the better part of valor is to install an Israeli/Jew as head of Egypt. Thereby making certain that none of the 80 million Egyptian Muslims will get to be top man and a threat to Mr. Cantor and other dual citizens.

    Given Mr. Cantor’s outspoken sympathies do the Republicans expect the Amarican voter to seriously consider voting for them in 2012?

  • http://www.BaltimoreGreenCurrency.org Shrapnel

    . “Meet the new boss, same as the old boss” — Sheik Al-Torture has been anointed by Tel Aviv and Washington, so there’s no point in continuing to report on the demonstrations — hundreds dead and wounded won’t amount to a hill of beans. There is no quick way to dismantle decades of dictatorship unless the army switches sides, and that’s not going to happen as long as Washington provides the technology, the money and the training. If the Egyptians are going to achieve freedom and democracy there will need to be a real revolution – in the USA.

  • http://gaia-health.com/ Heidi Stevenson

    Of course he’s a shill! El Baradei is neck deep in western multinational corporations. He didn’t show up until it looked like the people might win. He conducted faux negotiations – which started the whole fraudulent negotiation garbage – and now he seems to have disappeared now that the people are clearly not going along with the scam.

    El Baradei is a front for the World Bank and other equivalent organizations.

  • Anonymous

    This headline is no surprise, unless you’re just getting news from MSM..

  • Anonymous

    Absolutely agree! These were the largest demonstrations yet! There are even Suez Canal workers going on indefinite strike. While it hasn’t affected shipping so far, it is a beginning. Labor is more and more supporting the demonstrators. When two of the country’s four main sources of income are threatened (tourism and Suez canal traffic), leaving only oil and aid, and the “government” is issuing threats to demonstrators, it is clear that things are just heating up! This should be the main story. The events in Egypt have the potential to be more important than the two wars we are in, or possibly even the financial meltdown of the past few years! Get on the ball RawStory!

  • http://gaia-health.com/ Heidi Stevenson

    Big Pharma is threatened – 2,000 workers struck one plant. Textiles are threatened. And public sector workers are getting involved – the ones gifted with the 15% pay increase.

    The future of the world may depend on what goes on in Egypt. This scares the living hell out of American leaders. It scares hell out of European leaders. Why is RawStory asleep at the switch?

  • Anonymous

    That will ruin Hannity’s day. That was his whole show. Bwhahh ha hah ha

  • justintime

    On Tuesday, former House Speaker and Fox News contributor Newt Gingrich told CNN that the group “is a mortal enemy of our civilization.”

    Newt Gingrich is the mortal enemy of good government in America.

  • jimbo92107

    How about Bill Clinton? His schedule is open.

    Think I’m joking? Who else could walk in there with less bias and a better reputation as a skilled politician? Clinton is a world leader, and a trusted member of the money party. He could actually improve the situation of Egypt’s poor and middle class while helping its corporations make more money. He did it here.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_TX3MXXPF52BXCKGNLDNPADILPQ paul rogers

    ……….And in other news, Iran announces that it is only refining uranium so that it can build a power plant on top of a massive oil reserve………..

  • justintime

    Wikipedia:

    The Muslim brotherhood started off as a social organization, preaching Islam, teaching the illiterate, setting up hospitals, and even launched commercial enterprises. As it continued to rise in influence, starting in 1936, it began to oppose British rule in Egypt.

    Since its inception in 1928 the movement has officially opposed violent means to achieve its goals. Jeremy Bowen, BBC Middle East editor, calls it “conservative and non-violent,”and “poorly understood – especially in the West.”. . .

    The Brotherhood condemned terrorism and the 9/11 attacks . . . The Brotherhood’s nonviolent stance has resulted in breakaway groups from the movement, including the Al-Gama’a al-Islamiyya and Al Takfir Wal Hijra. . . Osama bin Laden has similarly criticized the Brotherhood, and accused it of betraying jihad and the ideals of Sayyid Qutb, an influential Brother member and author of Milestones. . .

    After the Arab defeat in 1948, the Egyptian government dissolved the organization and arrested its members; its founder, al-Banna, was assassinated. . . After the Egyptian coup of 1952, which was supported by the Brotherhood, it was once again banned and repressed. . . Though the Brotherhood spread to other countries, it was suppressed there too: in 1982, Syria violently crushed a Brotherhood revolt (Hama massacre).

    The Muslim Brotherhood is the enemy of corrupt, repressive and incompetent government throughout the Islamic world. Right wing fear freaks should understand that the Muslim Brotherhood is a positive influence and stop their hysterical hyperventilating.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_TX3MXXPF52BXCKGNLDNPADILPQ paul rogers

    The people who are cheerleading immediate democracy in Egypt don’t recall the lesson learned in Gaza, Senate Intelligence Committee chair Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) warned MSNBC this morning. Feinstein warned of “fundamentalist Islamic sects” taking control of Egypt in the present chaos and told Andrea Mitchell that “we don’t understand the ebb and flow” of politics in the Middle East, and that simply demanding elections in an environment as unstable as Egypt’s at the present could lead to some very undemocratic long-term outcomes

  • justintime

    What’s that supposed to mean?
    Why wouldn’t they want to conserve their massive oil reserve?
    Seems rational to me.

  • morty62

    Taquiyya: The practice of concealing one’s faith in dangerous circumstances originates in the Qur’an itself, which deems blameless those who disguise their beliefs in such cases.[3] The practice of taqiyya in difficult circumstances is considered legitimate by Muslims of various persuasions. Sunni and Shi’i commentators alike observe that Q 16:106 in particular refers to the case of ‘Ammar b. Yasir, who was forced to renounce his beliefs under physical duress and torture.[4]

    Similarly, Q 3:28 enjoins believers not to take the company of doubters unless as a means of safeguarding themselves. “Let not the believers take those who deny the truth for their allies in preference to the believers – since he who does this cuts himself off from God in everything – unless it be to protect yourself against them in this way…”[5] Regarding 3:28, Ibn Kathir, a prominent authority writes, “Whoever at any time or place fears their [infidels'] evil may protect himself through outward show.” As proof of this, he quotes Muhammad’s companion, al-Hassan, who said, “taqiyya is acceptable till the Day of Judgment [i.e., in perpetuity].”[citation needed]

    He is lying. The MB may not seek the presidency at the outset, but don’t for a minute think gaining power and establishing an Islamic state is not their goal.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_TX3MXXPF52BXCKGNLDNPADILPQ paul rogers

    That I don’t trust politicians (especially religious zealouts) just because they say something. Maybe the Muslim Brotherhood is truly not interested in gaining power or spreading Islam. However, I’ve never known of a political organization that DIDN’T want to increase it’s power, nor of a bunch of religious zealouts who didn’t want to convert as many people as possible.

  • justintime

    What was the lesson learned in Gaza?

    Feinstein warned of “fundamentalist Islamic sects” taking control of Egypt in the present chaos and told Andrea Mitchell that “we don’t understand the ebb and flow” of politics in the Middle East,

    If Feinstein doesn’t understand the ebb & flow of politics in the Middle East, maybe she should demand better intelligence, instead of relying exclusively on Israeli propaganda.

    simply demanding elections in an environment as unstable as Egypt’s at the present could lead to some very undemocratic long-term outcomes

    Now that’s an oxymoron if I ever heard one.
    DiFi is a hard line Israel supporter. She should be replaced on the Senate intelligence committee.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_TX3MXXPF52BXCKGNLDNPADILPQ paul rogers

    Please tell me that you don’t honestly believe that Iran has no interest in developing nuclear weapons. You can’t possibly be that disconnected frm reality.

  • morty62

    They may very well be against corruption. But a former leader of the MB has stated unequivalently that the groups aim is to establish an Islamic state. Mustafa Mashhur, who led the group from 1996-2002, wrote this in 1995: “The Islamic ummah can regain its power and be liberated and assume its rightful position which was intended by Allah, as the most exalted nation among men, as the leaders of humanity….Know your status, and believe firmly that you are the masters of the world, even if your enemies desire your degradation…The Brotherhood is not rushed by youth’s enthusiasm into immature and unplanned action which will not alter the bad reality and may even harm the Islamic activity, and will benefit the people of falsehood … One should know that it is not necessary that the Muslims repel every attack or damage caused by the enemies of Allah immediately, but [only] when ability and the circumstances are fit to it …It should be known that jihad and preparation towards jihad are not only for the purpose of fending off assaults and attacks of Allah’s enemies from Muslims, but are also for the purpose of realizing the great task of establishing an Islamic state and strengthening the religion and spreading it around the world…Jihad for Allah is not limited to the specific region of the Islamic countries, since the Muslim homeland is one and is not divided, and the banner of Jihad has already been raised in some of its parts, and shall continue to be raised, with the help of Allah, until every inch of the land of Islam will be liberated, and the State of Islam established.”

    Get his drift??

  • justintime

    Egyptian youth, who are the driving energy behind this secular revolution do not want an Islamic state or Sharia law. They want a secular democracy. Are they lying too?

  • BrainRagYell

    And reason, compassion, or any other innate human virtue.

  • Anonymous

    It seems that Daniel Pipes along with Eric Cantor have brainwashed many an ignorant or racist American.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_TX3MXXPF52BXCKGNLDNPADILPQ paul rogers

    No, just naive. Seems to be a lot of that around here.

  • justintime

    Interesting quote . . . 15 years old.

  • morty62

    No, they are not lying. The problem is that there is no organization. It is one thing to fill the streets with people but quite another to patch together an effective ruling coalition. Egypt has no experience with democracy and there’s every possibility that if the current regime is forced to abdicate, as happened in Iran with the Shah, that a passionate and organized Islamist block could gain control. And even if it doesn’t happen initially, if the first post-Mubarak government fails to provide stability, which is highly likely, the Islamists will swoop in promising order and unity. In Iran there were huge crowds on the streets protesting the Mullahs during the last elections but they were crushed by the organized, committed zealots of the Revolutionary Guard. Do you seriously think that, after Mubarak, Iran will not be behind the scenes fomenting discord and causing instability? People need to stop demonizing the U.S. and look to the real anti-democratic forces in the Middle East

  • justintime

    So, screw the revolution in Egypt ? . . Stay with the devil we know . . . Mubarak?

  • morty62

    It’s not our revolution to stop, frankly. But putting all this pressure on the current regime to just walk away is very dangerous and fool-hardy and probably not in the long-term interests of democracy and human rights in Egypt. Iran is the lesson and we need to learn from it. Diane Feinstein understands this and she is certainly no friend of despots. Obama doesn’t need to put out the red carpet for the Muslim Brotherhood, who are no friends of democracy.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_TX3MXXPF52BXCKGNLDNPADILPQ paul rogers

    No, not at all. This is what is driving me crazy about the posts I’ve seen on here regarding this situation. It’s not a multiple choice question with only two answers. There needs to be a well coordinated but fairly swift transition. And yes, the U.S., Israel, and other interested parties have every right to share their views and even try to persuade or advance candidates that are more moderate. At the end of the day, the people of Egypt should be allowed to vote for anyone they want. However, when you have a huge percentage of the population who hasn’t truly had the right to vote in their lifetime, and a government in shambles, you could easily end up with famine, civil war, and economic collapse if you just throw everyone in power out “NOW!”

    Additionally, do you recall the problems that resulted from the “power vacuums” in Iraq & Afghanistan? And that was with a MASSIVE multi national force, backed by the U.N, investing billions in resources and blod to try to make the transition smooth. Why would this be better WITHOUT any outside help?

  • justintime

    The problem is that there is no organization.

    It may appear that way to you. But there IS organization in Egypt. There is the court system, which is overwhelmingly anti-Mubarak and anti Sharia law. There is the Egyptian Army, a conscript organization, which is anti-Mubarak and opposes Sharia law. . . The Muslim Brotherhood, the older generation and primarily a social organization, is also a stabilizing factor. . . Yes it has outspoken members, such as the one you quoted, who occasionally spout off with Islamic rhetoric.

    Egyptian youth are well aware of the failure of the Iranian revolution and are determined not to fall into that trap. . . They desperately want a secular democracy, not an Islamic republic. . . I don’t think Iran will make much headway “fomenting discord and instability” in Egypt. . . Remember, Egypt’s religious culture is Sunni and Iran’s is Shiite. . . Most Egyptians are appalled at how the Iranian revolution was co-opted by the Mullahs. They aren’t stupid.

  • morty62

    Some people in here hate the U.S. and Israel so much that they would be happy to turn the Egyptian people over to religious fanatics so long as it made Washington and Tel Aviv lose face, something I find despicable. Hatred of Israel blinds people to the true evil in the Middle East: Iran and the forces of religious totalitarianism. Of course if Egypt falls apart and the Muslim Brotherhood take charge it will all be laid at the feet of you know who.

  • morty62

    And what leads you to believe anything has changed? They are religious fanatics. They won’t change until the verses in the Koran that back their ideology change, which ain’t going to happen anytime soon. Stop being an apologist for these zealots, who have zero respect for the rights of women, gays, children, Christians, Jews, Buddhists etc, etc, etc …

  • justintime

    Seems to be a lot of ignorance around here.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_TX3MXXPF52BXCKGNLDNPADILPQ paul rogers

    It is despicable and infuriating. How the same people can find Christianity/Judiasm terrible and frightening and liberty/capitalism to be such an awful system while having no concerns about extremist theocracies is beyond me.

    In the same way, I can’t understand why they get so angry and frightened about Bubba stockpiling shotgun shells and going to church, but have no problem with powerful dictators stockpiling nuclear weapons and shouting “death to America” . It’s truly a bizzaro world we live in.

  • justintime

    Remember, it was Bush that CAUSED the power vacuum in Iraq. This is not Iraq or Afghanistan. False equivalency.

  • justintime

    Egypt is not Iran either. False equivalency.

  • justintime

    They won’t change until the verses in the Koran that back their ideology change, which ain’t going to happen anytime soon.

    Which verses in the Koran do you think should be changed ?

  • morty62

    I understand that there are very few Shia in Egypt, which is good as it doesn’t give Iran the leverage it has in Iraq. I hope you’re right. I’m just not sure how truly secular the society is, even though they have taken on some of the trappings of secular Western culture. A recent Pew research poll in Egypt found widespread support for harsh legal penalties for apostates. Forty-eight percent said that Islam should play a large role in politics. Eighty-five percent described Islam’s role in politics as positive. When asked about the struggle between “modernizers” and “fundamentalists” almost 60% identified with the fundamentalists. and only 27% with the modernizers. Twenty-two percent believe that sometimes a non-democratic government is preferable (the highest % out of the 7 Muslim contries polled). And according to Pew, “At least three-quarters of Muslims in Egypt and Pakistan say they would favor making each of the following the law in their countries: stoning people who commit adultery, whippings and cutting off of hands for crimes like theft and robbery and the death penalty for those who leave the Muslim religion.” Still think the Brotherhood doesn’t stand a chance?

  • justintime

    “Some people in here” do NOT hate Israel OR the US. . . Get this right! . . Rather we hate Israel’s self destructive, racist policy and US foreign policy that refuses to reign in our favorite ally in the Middle East.
    Together these boneheaded policies are much more likely to lead to disaster in the Middle East than a popular democratic revolution in Egypt.

  • justintime

    Take a deep breath and count to ten, Paul.
    Now take another deep breath.
    Now start using your God given intelligence instead of letting your reptilian brainstem dominate your thinking.

  • justintime

    Morty, do you have a link to this Pew poll ?
    Why would Pew lump Egypt and Pakistan together ?

    Keep in mind that, until recently, the only resistance to Egypt’s corrupt, incompetent and repressive regime was mounted by the Muslim Brotherhood.

  • morty62

    I’m liberal on most issues but am also at a loss as to how people on the left can be apologists for an ideology that oppresses women, gays, children and non-Muslim faiths (including atheists). Perhaps it’s post-colonial guilt or a knee-jerk reaction against anything and everything the right stands for (although frankly the right is doing a lousy job as well). Maybe its falling prey to Saudi propaganda. Or it could simply be the new “radical chic,” the embracing of whatever is identified as “the Other” just to go against the grain. Whichever, it makes no sense at all from a rational perspective. Did those who fought against Hitler, Stalin and Mao have reptilian brains as well?

  • morty62

    But Islam is Islam and observant Muslims of both sects believe essentially the same things. Except for Turkey, which is backsliding back into fundamentalism, the Muslim world has shown itself to have little affinity for Western values. Egypt will prove this to be true once again.

  • morty62

    I would toss the whole thing into the dustbin of history. But at least they should decide to ignore the ones that paint women as inferior, that call for the the death of homosexuals and that call for Islam to be spread around the world until all those who oppose it either are killed or submit. How’s that for starters?

  • justintime

    None of the above, Morty.

    Islam is not monolithic and you have observed the worst of radical Islam and applied your judgment to all of the one billion Muslims on this planet.

    Islam is not going to go away and they are not going to revise the Koran just to make Westerners like them better.
    Have you ever read the Koran ?
    Have you ever read the Bible ?

  • morty62

    Doesn’t anyone in the world do anything stupid and boneheaded, or just downright evil, besides the U.S. and Israel? Is no one ever responsible for their own actions? Anti-semitism is rife in Muslim countries. In fact it is codified in the Koran and in the Hadiths. You think that hatred of Israel is only a result of its policies? To be Muslim practically means to be an anti-Semite. Do you understand that ever since its inception Islam has been an aggressive, proselytizing “faith” that has been close to taking over Europe twice and which was rolled back only at the eleventh hour? It is not a religion. It is a totalitarian death-cult.

  • justintime

    We all have reptilian brainstems, Morty.
    But God expanded the human brain to allow consciousness, reason, compassion and all of the other aspects of higher intelligence.
    When our powers of reason determine its necessity, the reptilian brain is always accessible.

  • justintime

    Boneheadedness is nearly universal around the world.
    But aren’t we supposed to be the beacon to the world ?

    It is not a religion. It is a totalitarian death-cult.
    That’s a total crock of hogwash !

    Morty, you sound like you’ve caught Islamophobic hysteria.
    Do you think we should turn the clock back to the 11th century and exterminate a billion Muslims ?
    Take a deep breath and think it over.

  • morty62

    here’s the link:

    http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1814/muslim-public-opinion-hamas-hezbollah-al-qaeda-islam-role-in-politics-democracy

    and yes, I have read both. In case you didn’t know, the later, more militant verses over-ride or abrogate the earlier, more peaceful ones. Muslims who do not follow calls for jihad or who do not seek Islamic dominance over other faiths are not observant Muslims, that is, they do not follow what is written in the Koran or what is written in the Hadiths.I do not want to like them. I want them to stop pushing their ideology down the collective throat of my culture and I want them to stop killing innocent people because they won’t bend to their demands or because I won’t “respect” their medieval belief system.

  • justintime

    I’m certainly glad you’re not in a position where you could do anything this stupid.

  • morty62

    I read Carl Sagan 25 years ago and am very familiar with the reptile inside. It cuts off hands for minor crimes. It performs clitorectomies. It kills people for being gay or for sleeping with whom they want or for leaving the faith. It believes in beating women who don’t submit to the patriarchy. It believes there is only one way and that those who don’t agree need to be killed or dominated until they submit. Tolerance for intolerance is no virtue, my friend. It gives tacit approval to the very things you hold up as virtues.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_TX3MXXPF52BXCKGNLDNPADILPQ paul rogers

    I think (just an uneducated opinion) that it is a combination of “radical chic” and a certain psychological type that is constantly paranoid. That exists on the radical right as well.

    On the left the “chics” are all about wearing a palestinian scarf and driving their prius to Starbucks to talk to each other about their moral and intellectual superiority. The paranoids are the angry ones who pound away at keyboards hurling invectives at the anonymous screen and shaking their old man fist at the sky convinced that rich people and jews are responsible for their lives crumbling around them.

    On the right, the chics are the “mega church” preachers and the Christian rock goobers who sing every song as if their constipated in order to sound sincere. The paranoids are the one ones who join the KKK or or some other supremecist group because they think that it is “they” (blacks, jews, gays, etc) are responsible for their own crappy lives in the trailer park.

    Just armchair psuedo psychiatry on my part, but that’s the nice thing about an open forum. Even an idiot like me who is controlled by his reptilian brain stem gets to have opinions!

  • justintime

    FoxSnooze has been cherrypicking some of the findings of a recent Pew poll conducted throughout the Islamic world.
    Here’s a link to the actual Pew poll.
    Draw your own conclusions:
    http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1874/egypt-protests-democracy-islam-influence-politics-islamic-extremism

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Bob-Zentrails/100001475536421 Bob Zentrails

    My God, the RW wet dream just woke up. LOL

  • morty62

    Look, I’m not talking about this Saudi guy I know who hangs out at a local bar I go to and sometimes comes in in his PJs. That guy is fine because he’s rich and doesn’t take it seriously. If you ask him he says he’s Muslim, but he’s not observant. Have you seen the TV shows from the Middle East where they put kids on talking about wanting to be martyrs when they grow up. Completely evil brainwashing and indoctrination. Observant Muslims take it seriously and a significant percentage are willing to die for the cause. They have cowed under those who don’t take it so seriously. They have to shut up otherwise they’ll be labelled apostates, which is punishable by death. These beliefs have not been bleached from the religion and in fact they are spreading thanks to Saudi support on the Sunni side and Iranian support on the shia side. They are very serious about the whole paradise via martyrdom thing. Those under the thrall of the true believers embrace death if it is in defense of Islam, which covers a lot of ground. I have seen several videos of Muslims speaking in Western mosques spewing the most despicable hate speech you can imagine. And they are packed! In the Middle East it’s even worse. Wall-to-wall people all screaming approval to “Imams” who preach nothing but death to this and death to that and how it’s a duty to die for Islam. I don’t want to exterminate anyone. But how do you react when a significant percentage of a billion people have no problem exterminating you? There has to be push-back at some point, don;’t you think? My fear is not irrational, not a “phobia,” because it’s based on what adherents of Islam say and do..

  • justintime

    Do you think President Obama is a Muslim ?

  • justintime

    Do you think President Obama is a Muslim ?

  • justintime

    Do you think President Obama was born in America ?

  • justintime

    Do you think President Obama was born in the U.S.A.?

  • Anonymous

    HOW COULD ANYONE BE INTERESTED IN A SINGLE SYLLABLE THAT COMES FROM RUMSFELD’S MOUTH.
    He has been spewing lies and destruction for so many years, but they still drag him out and quote him.
    Oh, America!

  • justintime

    Rummy is lucky he’s not being prosecuted for war crimes.
    Bush canceled a recent appearance in Switzerland because he was afraid he would be arrested.
    He better keep his sorry ass in Texas.

  • morty62

    That’s pretty spot on. I’m not a racist at all and believe in most liberal ideals such as gay rights and womens’ rights. That’s why I’m befuddled by the left’s apologetics for Islam. If Christians espoused the same things they’d be on the streets en masse. I try not to be paranoid, but I’m also aware of certain junctures in history where a little more paranoia might have gone a long way. I think this moment in history is one of those points. I hope I’m wrong, but I don’t think so.

  • morty62

    I don’t mean the people. I mean the ideology. Why do you stand up for those noxious ideas? Are you unaware that this is what Islam espouses?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_TX3MXXPF52BXCKGNLDNPADILPQ paul rogers

    I think you and I share a 30,000 foot view while being politically on different “sides of the aisle”. I guess I would be considered a “libertarian (socially liberal, fiscally conservative).

    Like you, I fear that we are facing another pivitol moment in world history (like the civil war, the great depression, the cuban missile crisis, the civil rights marches, the waning years of the cold war, etc) without an effective leader. We were enormously lucky to have Lincoln, Kennedy, King, and Reagan at those times. I’m afraid that we have reached that point again, but with a mental midget at the helm. In addition, I’m afraid that the problem is much larger this time.

    I truly hope that we are both wrong.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_TX3MXXPF52BXCKGNLDNPADILPQ paul rogers

    Most likely, although his governor in Hawaii seems to be having a hell of time finding his birth certificate!

    The bigger question is do I care or do I think it matters.
    No, on both counts.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_TX3MXXPF52BXCKGNLDNPADILPQ paul rogers

    No, I think he is an agnostic or atheist, which doesn’t matter to me any more than where he was born.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_TX3MXXPF52BXCKGNLDNPADILPQ paul rogers

    Most likely, but his governor in Hawaii seems to have major doubts!

    The more important question is do I care or do I think it matters.

    No, on both counts.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_TX3MXXPF52BXCKGNLDNPADILPQ paul rogers

    No, I think he is agnostic or atheist. I don’t think that matters any more than where his mom was when he plopped out of her vag.

  • morty62

    No. Like most elites he’s probably an atheist.

  • morty62

    Yes, if Hawaii is a part of the US.

  • morty62

    I looked at it when the crises began. The gist is that Egypt is a very conservative country. The large majority of its citizens believe Islam should play very significant role in the the political and legal spheres. I don’t like Fox news but I don’t know what you saw in the results that would undercut that conclusion. Seventy-five percent of the people believe in traditional sharia punishments like cutting off body parts for theft, stoning for adultery and death for apostates. I know you hate to hear it because it contradicts your vision of Egypt as a budding liberal democracy (the core belief of which is the protection of minority rights from mob rule). Sorry. They are not like us.Three out of four would push Ellen Degeneres and Elton John off a hill-top, which is the traditional punishment for homesexuality.

  • justintime

    Bullshit, Morty !

    ………………………………………………………………………
    INCORPORATING SHARIA INTO LEGAL SYSTEMS
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7235357.stm

    Sharia is a legal and social code for Muslims to live by. It does not offer a fixed set of rules, and there are several differing interpretations. But it has proved controversial in the West for the extreme nature of some of its punishments.

    In fact, parallel systems do exist in several countries. In some, Sharia exists as an alternative system, and in others it has been incorporated into the existing legal code. We examined different cases to see how it can work in practice.

    EGYPT
    Sharia law in Egypt applies only in personal status issues – such as marriage, divorce, inheritance, and custody of children. Otherwise the legal system is entirely a secular one, on the model of the French legal system.
    Egypt incorporates Islamic law into its constitution by making Islam the official religion of the country and Islamic jurisprudence the principal source of legislation.
    Sharia courts and judges, qadis, are run and licensed by the Egyptian Ministry of Justice, not by mosques.
    A non-religious Supreme Court operates above the Sharia personal status courts and the secular criminal courts.
    Religious minorities in Egypt are governed under separate personal status laws and courts.
    Coptic Christians in Egypt marry under Christian law, and foreigners marry under the laws of their countries of origin.

  • morty62

    Bullshit what? Sharia is not the official law in Egypt BECAUSE the Mubarak regime does not allow it. You remember him, the one all the protesters are depicting with a Star of David on his forehead. His policies will be overturned. Will sharia law become official law there? Probably eventually. As I mentioned before, the Pew Research poll found that 75% of Egyptians are in favor of the harshest Sharia punishments such as amputation and stoning. The current legal system is based on that horrible colonial French system, which actually forbade the stoning of adulterers. Savages!

  • justintime

    Well I hate to tell you this, Morty, but your world is crumbling:

    Mubarak Stepping Down

    NBC’s Richard Engel says NBC has been told of the news by two separate sources “close to the president that he will step down tonight and make a statement.” (Keep in mind that “tonight” is local time, not U.S. time.) He said the news was just filtering through the crowd. Engel also said he expected that the Egyptian military would soon make a statement on the transfer of power.

  • justintime

    What about you Morty ?
    Are you Christian ?

  • morty62

    I’m an atheist when it comes to Sky Gods. As for Mubarak stepping down, my world is not crumbling. I don’t understand why you have to frame it like a sporting event or something. I’m not “for” Mubarak. I’m against chaos and the potential that a regime might take over that might be more oppressive. I’m also concerned about the stability of the Middle East which affects the the entire world. I’m sure you’ve heard of the French Revolution. Decapitating the monarchy did not bring peace. It brought the Reign of Terror.

  • Anonymous

    You can’t reason with the village idiot!

  • Anonymous

    I make no claims at being able to predict the outcome, but I really, really like the way things seem to be headed in Egypt right now.

  • Anonymous

    I remember back in ’02 when Rumsfeld did utter an interesting syllable. Well, I’m not sure if it was the actual syllable that was interesting or simply the way he moved his mouth around it, but it was damn interesting.

    Then again, maybe I was drunk at the time…

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