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Ohio ‘heartbeat bill’ would ban most abortions

By Daniel Tencer
Wednesday, February 9, 2011 22:28 EDT
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Republican lawmakers in Ohio unveiled legislation Wednesday that would ban abortions of any fetus found to have a heartbeat, a move that could ban most abortions in the state.

Under legislation sponsored by State Representative Lynn Wachtmann, doctors would be forbidden from performing an abortion the moment a heartbeat is detected in the fetus. Fetuses generally develop a heartbeat within six weeks of conception, and in some pregnant women a heartbeat can be detected within 18 days.

The Youngstown Vindicator describes the bill as “the most restrictive abortion ban in the country” and potentially “a precedent for other states eyeing comparable restrictions.”

Robyn Marty at Alternet reports that the “heartbeat bill” amounts to an almost total ban on abortion.

For most women, [the law] would provide a window of two weeks or less in order to learn she was pregnant, make her decision about the pregnancy, arrange for an appointment, gather money for an abortion, obtain the mandatory counseling and sit through the required 24 hour waiting period. For a woman with irregular menstrual cycles, by the time she realizes she is pregnant it likely would already be too late to do anything but continue the pregnancy.

Legal experts say the bill challenges Roe v. Wade, the 1973 Supreme Court ruling that legalized abortion in the US. That ruling set the standard that a pregnant woman can abort a fetus until it is “viable,” meaning capable of living outside the womb. But since a fetus develops a heartbeat long before it becomes “viable,” the proposed Ohio law challenges that standard.

That prompted Case Western Law School professor Jessie Hill to call the bill “symbolic legislation … that’s clearly unconstitutional,” reported the Cleveland Plain Dealer.

The Plain Dealer noted that, with last fall’s elections, all three branches of Ohio’s state government are under Republican control, making the state a prime candidate for experimentation with a socially conservative agenda.

“What they’re doing is trying to push the point at which the woman’s rights are subordinated to those of the unborn to a much earlier point in pregnancy,” Laurence H. Tribe of Harvard Law School told ABC News. “It’s clearly a frontal challenge to Roe v. Wade.”

Rep. Wachtmann did not deny that that was his goal in comments Wednesday.

“As technology improves in medicine, as it continually does, that protection will move closer and closer to conception, which is I think for many of us what our ultimate goal of protecting life is,” he said.

Wachtmann’s Ohio House web page says he’s involved in the NRA and the Ohio Right to Life Society, and was a recipient of the Ohio Right to Life Defender of Life Award.

The Plain Dealer noted that the “heartbeat bill” is only one of five anti-abortion measures put forward in the Ohio state legislature since the start of the new session.

Another GOP bill introduced last week would ban late-term abortions at 20 weeks. A separate measure would exclude abortion coverage under the new federal health care law, and another would apply stricter parental consent rules for teenagers wanting abortions.

Under current law, minors do not need parental consent if they can convince a juvenile court to allow the abortion. While Ohio has a ban on what critics call partial-birth abortions, women can have abortions by other methods through the ninth month of pregnancy.

Legislators from Georgia and Texas have already asked for copies of Ohio’s bill so they can introduce similar bills in their own states, the Plain Dealer reported.

 
 
 
 
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  • Anonymous

    It’s time for a new law

    “Attempts to bypass abortion laws by artificially restricting access will result in a punch in the jaw on the spot, and a public beating for the proposer, along with a ban on proposing or sponsoring new bills for one year”

    This concept can be applied to many other things that abusers don’t like

  • Anonymous

    This from the party with no heart.

  • Busto

    What the hell has happened to my state.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KFOFZHLUNJCQATOHPSVHSFKP3I pw

    Your brutality explains your position.

  • Anonymous

    This makes no sense. End of life decisions for life support are based on higher level brain function and whether the person is brain-dead, not the presence of a heart beat. Why is this different?

  • Anonymous

    …then the elephants will be the FIRST one’s in line to adopt, support, and raise these children after they are born……so proud of these elephants….

  • Anonymous

    Abortion isn’t something I look in to because it disturbs me but I can’t believe they killed babies with heartbeats, wow.

  • cannotvote

    Sounds sensible – let them live long enough to die in some far off land for the rich guy! I think they call that ‘Latent Abortion’.

  • Sandi

    You must be young. When I was a teen my pregnant girlfriends had to go to Kentucky for an abortion. Come to think of it. . . they also had to go to Kentucky to get married. It will still be the same as it was when I was a kid. Michigan, Kentucky, West Virginia, and Indiana are just an hour and a half drive away from just about anywhere in Ohio. Just cross the border. No big deal.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_TX3MXXPF52BXCKGNLDNPADILPQ paul rogers

    ……and opposed by the party with no brain.

  • Sandi

    I’m a leftie–a socialist. Morally, I’m pro-life. Still, I’m pro-freedom. Basically, it’s do what you want as long as it doesn’t mess with me or mine. I may fight with my children and grandchildren over an abortion issue but if you’re my niece or nephew it’s none of my business.

    If Ohio–my own state–decides to accept this then I have no argument. States have the right to choose for themselves what is acceptable and what is not. If this law is passed and an Ohioan wants an abortion they can always go to Michigan, Indiana, Kentucky, or West Virginia to get one. It may not be convenient but the drive gives the parents ample time to decide if it’s what they really want.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_TX3MXXPF52BXCKGNLDNPADILPQ paul rogers

    I’ve never understood why they don’t use brain activity as the criteria.

  • Sandi

    So, intelligence tells you whether a life form is viable or not? You sound like activist vegans who think it’s OK to eat vegetables, fruits, and fungi (all living creatures) but decide we all should stop eating lifeforms that have brainwaves (meat). Life is life.

    All of these arguments about when humans become humans are just humans learning about the nature of life, itself. Sperm is alive. Eggs are alive. Carrots are alive. Flowers are alive until they are beheaded from their stems. Oxygen is alive until you breathe it in. You’ll figure it all out one day when you actually take time to think about it.

    In order to exist on this planet you must “kill” life. The secret is giving as much life as you are forced to take.

  • Anonymous

    I take it you are a male?

    Are there no women in your political party?

  • Anonymous

    If that were the case, then it would be legal to off conservatives.

  • http://resror.myopenid.com/ Your Name

    “Yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb.” ~ God, Hosea 9:16

  • Anonymous

    They have a brain, they just have no spine.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_TX3MXXPF52BXCKGNLDNPADILPQ paul rogers

    Thank you for adding your highly intellectual comment to the discussion.

  • Anonymous

    we can’t even pay the medical care for poor kids who need it, let alone unwanted pregnancies of some women who can barely take care of themselves.

    as the decider, i will make this compact with you right to lifers: you guarantee an increased standard of living for those suffering in poverty with universal health care for all, a fat paycheck for the women who carry their fetus’s to term and suffer through the pain of delivery, and insure that these infants will be nurtured by a loving family free from the despair of continued poverty and abuse.

    I will, in turn, graciously guarantee that the abortion rate will dramatically decrease in the United States. Making rules is easy. Helping others….hmmm…not so much.

  • Anonymous

    Are you suggesting that ILRN’s comment that “End of life decisions for life support are based on higher level brain function” means he is implying that “intelligence tells you whether a life form is viable or not?”. You obviously don’t have any understanding of brain function terminology if that is what you are suggesting. Higher level brain function refers to cortical brain function that allows thought as opposed to lower level brain function that can allow vegetative function or existence even after higher level brain function is gone/damaged forever. Also, by whose definition, besides yours, is oxygen “alive”?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_4YKSXOJV2L26O33LEI5HQ45KSM Lyn Dahl

    I don’t believe in abortion myself, I have 6 children to prove that, but it isn’t my will or right to tell another woman what she should do, and it certainly isn’t the Governments, she has to live with her choice. She is the only one who has to answer to God for her decision just as I have to answer to him for the choices I made in my life, no one else.

  • Ma’at

    The GOP war on women continues. They see them only as incubators. Oh yeah, and fund raisers a l Sarah the Stupid.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_4YKSXOJV2L26O33LEI5HQ45KSM Lyn Dahl

    …”States have the right to choose for themselves”? But they aren’t choosing for themselves, they are choosing for women, they are choosing control of a womans decision. If you were pro freedom you wouldn’t find it acceptable for the state to make a decision for an individual.

  • http://www.facebook.com/derek.spisak Derek Spisak

    So when does Ohio discontinue issuing birth certificates and start issuing “pulse certificates”?

  • Anonymous

    Well, 50 years of being nice to conservatives has gotten us where now? In my experience, bullies only stop when you clock them upside the head, and the humilation of a public beating serves as an example that plays on the inherent paranoia and fear in every conservative an extreme example of what abusing people gets you.

    I don’t have a political party. The Republicans are sociopaths, abusive and criminals, and the democrats as GOP light/pussies. I’m done compromising, it’s time for pain.

  • Nickelthrower

    Greetings,

    Can’t we just divide up the United States already? Everyone that is a “birther”, climate change denier, pro life nut case or Sarah Palin supporter can go to one side and everyone else can go to another side of the country and we’ll just split it down the middle.

    I’m sick and tire of being sick and tired and I just do not know what more I can say or do to get these f*cktards to have some common sense. We refuse to take care of the children we have and these lame ass fascists want to force women to bring even more of them into the world.

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/42THFKXIPMJHQBIH6OPI4RVIDY Thebes

    More statist big-brother laws about what we can and can’t do that effects no one else.
    This is the sort of mischief that comes from false left-right paradigms.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_SMZGHBD74MHGUDS2HXCSQ2XMRQ Lori Patingale

    Questions for Republicans: Do you respect women? Because if you think women are intelligent individuals capable of making momentous decisions concerning our bodies/lives, how can you rationalize not allowing us the choice? Ohio politics and politicians are an embarassement to this Native Buckeye.

  • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

    Gotta hand it to the GOP…they may be wrong, evil, hatefilled and proudly ignorant…

    …but they are smarter than the DNC. Pushing hard for teh social causes of their party will resonate with the assbackward hicks who elected them…and pay off when election time rolls around in a couple years. If the DNC had shown that much common sense…they’d still control both houses.

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/LEUDUVF5EGJZRZETF3KV53P7BQ Thomas

    This is the old magicians trick. The republicans are screaming for no abortions so that the public doesn’t ask about the jobs they were promised during the elections. I also thought that the republicans didn’t want Muslim law in this country. Telling women what to do, what not to do and when to do it sure seems like what men in Muslim countries do to their women. Plus, all those old white men don’t give a rat’s ass about women or their rights just as long as they can control them like they did in the 40′s and 50′s when a woman was killed to so the baby could be born, just like they now want, again. After the baby is born, it’s no longer the old white man’s problem. They look at the baby as just another future soldier who will die so that the old white man’s daughter and secretary can get an abortion out of the country where it won’t be seen by the public that they also want to control.

  • Anonymous

    If women are so intelligent, Lori, why don’t they realize that once they are
    pregnant, they carry some else’s body, and that they don’t have the right
    to take that life, any more than they have the right to take anyone’s life?
    If women are so intelligent why is it so easy for men to manipulate them
    into situations they don’t want to be in? Why do they believe it when a man
    says I love you?

  • Anonymous

    “I don’t want to see pictures of your baby being born, I want to see pictures of your baby being conceived.” – Joan Rivers

  • Anonymous

    Maybe every man who gets a girl pregnant should have to immediately start
    paying child support as soon as she reports him, by federal mandate.
    Wages garnished, tax returns levied, possessions picked up and sold,
    investments, etc.
    Maybe that would keep the you know what in the pants.

  • Anonymous

    I think you murdered too many of those funny brownies.

  • Anonymous

    “No big deal. ”

    We can tell from the expression on your face that you’ve taken too many. Just lie down until they wear off.

  • Anonymous

    The government does not create jobs. It cannot.
    The government is $14 trillion dollars in debt. They have made you believe that it is
    your debt, but it is not. It is the debt of the 545 people who’ve made the decisions
    to use their income (taxes) recklessly. Once they take your money, it’s theirs, not
    yours, therefore, the debt is theirs, not ours. Jobs are created by people who want
    to hire other people to do work. The government does hire some people, but those
    jobs are required by law to be filled, not because the government has created them.

  • Anonymous

    We don’t get to be the best if we act like the worst.
    Abortion is the murder of offspring. There is no worse
    act possible in the human condition. Calling it by
    terminology that separates the mind from the reality
    of the act, does not change the act.

  • Anonymous

    It’s coming.

  • Anonymous

    If women are so intelligent, why are millions of them wearing burkas,
    bowing and scraping and taking abuse from Muslim males?

  • Anonymous

    If women are so intelligent, why are so many propping up the porn industry
    for male lust? Strippers, prostitutes, models for mags, etc. are all women.
    Do you have any idea how many marriages are busted up over this crap?
    Can you imagine the state of the world if women went to war, if they are this
    willing to be this destructive of other women?

  • Anonymous

    If women are so intelligent, why are they putting their daughters in beauty pageants, instead of advanced classes in science and engineering?

  • Anonymous

    What are we doing to prove our intelligence?

  • http://reconstitution.us/rcnew Jolly Roger (Plutocrap)

    The stupid Ohio voters elected a corrupt, racist schlock spitter from FOX “News” as Governor, a corrupt, drunk ex-Senator as the Attorney General, and various and sundry other Rushpubliscum wack jobs, presumably because our unemployment is so high.

    Well our unemployment may be high, but our collective IQ is way below room temperature. Welcome to North Guatemala

  • http://reconstitution.us/rcnew Jolly Roger (Plutocrap)

    When you and your kind start trying harder to do something for the already born, come back and talk to me. But your whole attitude is “once out of the womb, go straight to the tomb.”

  • http://reconstitution.us/rcnew Jolly Roger (Plutocrap)

    This ranks as one of the stupidest things I’ve ever read. You really believe that a good transportation network won’t encourage the creation of jobs? That well-educated citizens won’t be better producers? That all the R&D the Government does never leads to anything worthwhile in the private sector?

    Turn Beck off for awhile, and think HARD before you type.

  • http://reconstitution.us/rcnew Jolly Roger (Plutocrap)

    Lori, I’m out of hair. I’ve torn it all out now. Kasich will make Taft look saintly before it’s all said and done. I’m not sure Arizona is any worse off than we are.

  • http://reconstitution.us/rcnew Jolly Roger (Plutocrap)

    Is it beyond you baggers to think in any terms other than black and white? Since many child molesters over the years have been Rushpubliscums, using your own thinking here, I can ask why it is that the Rushpubliscums are so hellbent on molesting children.

    See how easy it is?

  • Anonymous

    If YOU are so intelligent then why do YOU allow this to happen?

    Where is the “nogadianton” college scholarship fund? I guess you are just another blowhard who likes the sound of their own voice.

  • Anonymous

    Haha apparently nothing! I wouldn’t expect you to be able to prove the unprovable.

  • http://www.space-station.co.uk/ Self-Storage-Prices

    Unfortunately, Ohio has always lived a delicate balance between identifying as red or blue, and in the last election, the state bit the big one.

  • Anonymous

    I guess you never stopped to think that the very computer you are typing on and the network over which your message is spread, is a direct result of government spending.

    It was the government’s involvement in rural telephony that gave the electronics business in this country a big boost. Even today people in rural areas would not have phone service without this program. Are you saying that people in the country would be better off without telephones? Commercial aircraft are direct descendants of military transport planes. There would be no market for automobiles without government-built roads to drive them on.

    Wow what a loser. Please try again though. This is fun.

  • Anonymous

    generalize much?

  • Anonymous

    Bring it then.

  • Anonymous

    “There is no worse act possible in the human condition.”

    This is REALLY stupid.

    You are telling me that terminating a life that has never been lived is “the worst possible act”

    Boy are you STUPID. FAR WORSE it is to terminate the life of someone who is ALREADY ALIVE.

    By the way it happens ALL THE TIME in mother nature, mother aborts her fetus or dumps her eggs out of the nest so that she can take better care of those who are ALREADY ALIVE. It is BASIC SURVIVAL INSTINCT and it is COMPLETELY VALID.

    And even more seriously, it is BASIC and VITAL for an overpopulated society to reduce its birth rate. It is INHUMANE to subject people to an overpopulated world.

  • Anonymous

    YEAH! why don’t they just stick to being baby factories like god intended right!?!?!

  • MarleneB

    First of all, even the Mandatory Motherhood Mob (aka Ohio Right to Life) is against this bill! So I wouldn’t put a whole lot of stock into bigot-boy’s bill becoming law.

    Wachtmann’s a right-wing zealot who wants nothing more than the American Taliban’s version of Sharia law ruling over us all. It’s too bad his district’s not intelligent enough to elect someone who doesn’t have cranial-rectal inversion.

  • Anonymous

    Pretty soon these fetus chasers will want a live feed of every maternity ultra-sound in the country to see if there’s a dot in it.

    What a bunch of Roe v Wade obsessed sickos.

  • Anonymous

    Yeah yeah. Abortion, abortion, abortion. These scumbag mothers are just doing their regular act. Hot button issues to distract from their corporate bullshit. And the goobers fall for it every time.

  • DesertSun59

    This is what happens when you let religion trump the Constitution or medicine. This is solely about using Christianity as a weapon and nothing more.

    One is not dead when there is no heartbeat. One is dead when there are no BRAINWAVES. At the other end of the spectrum, there is no possible way to legally, medically or morally say that a human life is viable BEFORE THERE ARE BRAINWAVES. A heartbeat shows up months before brainwaves.

    THAT is the standard that should be used, not a religious nutbag belief.

  • Anonymous

    And what did these patriots do about abortion when they had a lock on both houses of congress, the presidency and the Supreme Court? Did they protect the innocent babies and the unborn? Noooo, they protected the ‘innocent’ super-wealthy and used all of their influence to pass tax cuts and other mutually beneficial laws.

    I’d say The REPUBLICAN PARTY is responsible for every single abortion that happened under their watch (and after) while they concentrated on elevating the wealthy to king status.

    What do you think of that assessment?

  • Anonymous

    You are a sorry sack of shit.

  • DesertSun59

    Based on that astoundingly ridiculous screed, I must assume you live in your parents’ basement and don’t actually have a job.

    The US interstate highway system was originally a GOVERNMENT program. It was built on tax money and is easily the most successful public works programs in the history of this nation. It has sustained more jobs than any other public works program EVER. This nonsensical BS about the gov’t not creating jobs is utter trash and has no business being in public or private discussions. You people are not playing with a full deck and are clearly in need of meds.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_highway_system

  • Anonymous

    Jesus Christ, you are a god damned moron. Where do these idiots come from?

  • Anonymous

    It’s just a distraction issue. It’s ‘tap the rage’ all over again. Our country is full of idiots.

  • Anonymous

    What is perfectly acceptable for one group to do, should in turn be perfectly acceptable for the other. Besides being conservative means that the person usually has a narrow minded personality.

  • Anonymous

    The same Republicans will run the bus over the fetus if the state legal creature called “Corporation” told them to.

    If you doubt me. In my state Corporations were given huge tax breaks, but to make up for those tax breaks prenatal care was cut out of the state budget. You are on your own bitch says the state to the pregnant mother. Now get this, the same state passes a law that nearly abolishes abortion. Note: It was a symbolic law as well, At the first court challenge the state dropped the law. But the cut to prenatal care is not symbolic, they actually did this and the protests of the doctors statewide didn’t budge the oh so caring Republicans one bit. Corporations got to have everything they want at the expense of that precious little life called fetus.

    Note: the state legal creature called “Corporation” is just a peice of paper what this means to you Republicans is that a piece of paper doesn’t have a heart beat and those of us who aren’t Republicans all know that you’ll fall on your sword for a piece of paper and at the same time flip the bird to a life that does have a heartbeat.

  • Anonymous

    This is religious law coming to America. It is the establishment of a state religion, that of far right wing pseudo christian. It is a good time for it, since the court has been packed for this over the years, and filthy men like John Roberts, who lied at his confirmation hearing, now hold sway there. They are no different from the taliban, just wearing different clothes.

  • DriveBy

    God save us from these Christofucks.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Thomas-Lee-Brown/1522418996 Thomas Lee Brown

    Perhaps not. But speaking of reality, what makes you think outlawing abortions will mean they will stop?

    I mean, look how well that’s worked out for Heroin.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Thomas-Lee-Brown/1522418996 Thomas Lee Brown

    As an apprentice feminist, I say they should be free to do either one.

  • PrissyPatriot®

    The party of “smaller, less intrusive government” won’t stay out of my personal life. Another reason republican men sexually repulse me, they have nothing but contempt for women. Give me a fighting Dem, Independent, Socialist or Labour Left any day!

  • PrissyPatriot®

    I agree, it won’t in reality happen. They can’t find a pug tough enough to put this bill on the table, just some Pollyanna who wants to wag her finger at Ohio. She’s probably a former stripper turned religious…

  • Anonymous

    hahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!! Great joke!!!!!!!!!! No, once those babies are born they are cast aside as so much rubbish. It’s only the getting born that is important to said elephants. After that… you’re on your own.

    No planned parenthood for you who are trying to prevent unwanted pregnancies. No medical help to ensure those babies are born healthy. No ‘entitlements’ for you who were so ‘careless’ to get pregnant in the first place but have no means to give your child/ren a decent life. No, you’re on your own with the fucking and child rearing. Not that there are not plenty of opinions about how you should do those things. Just no real and useful help.

  • DriveBy

    We can’t turn into retards to fight the retards. The US turned to terrorism and the mass murder of innocents to fight terrorism and mass murder of innocents, remember? Didn’t turn out so well for the US, did it?

    When you abandon your principles, for whatever reason, you lose.

  • Anonymous

    Tell me again how both parties are the same. Tell me again how it doesn’t make a difference. Tell me again how repubs will never touch Social Security (like so many repub voters use to say).

    Tell me again how not voting last November punished the Dems. WTF? It did nothing of the sort. It punished “we the people”. By not voting, it gave the repubs the reason to say this is what the voters want. I am disgusted to no end. This is only the beginning. Who’s laughing now? Not I.

  • Anonymous

    The DNC did show that much common sense–in 2004, when they elected Howard Dean as chairman. The moment he left, it was a downhill spiral.

  • Anonymous

    Thanks for the sound bite. I will use this. Unfortunately again and again.

  • Anonymous

    Many mammalian cells, grown under the right conditions, will become cardiac myocyte-like and spontaneously beat in synchrony. This was recently done using fat cells, which is somehow appropriate for Ohio.

    Spontaneously beating cardiomyocytes derived from white mature adipocytes

    http://cardiovascres.oxfordjournals.org/content/85/1/17.full

  • Anonymous

    Let’s hope it’s not too late. (I’m serious).

  • Anonymous

    Where have the people been? This started in 1973. Sometimes I just want to shake my head at how Americans have been duped all these years. How many of you voted for the repubs starting with Reagan thinking you were voting for Guns, God and Gays? It took them decades to get where we are today and so many folks think this just happened. (bankrupt us and then say no to everything that has been set up to help us)

    It might be too late already to do anything about the take over.

  • Anonymous

    If it dresses like a tele-evangelist, talks like a tele-evangelist, then it must be….a supreme court justice.

  • Anonymous

    For one, if you have a penis you don’t get to vote. The second thing, this would make it legal to abort all the tories: they have no heartbeat.

  • http://twitter.com/VaginaHedgeFund Lloyd Blankfein

    I considered investing in a coat hanger business a few years ago but the returns weren’t worth the risk. I think its time to have a second look at it.

  • Guest

    When will woman realize that criminalizing abortion is a path for disenfranchisement?

    A woman has a right to privacy with her physician. If not, then by virtue of her biology she is a second-class citizen.

  • Anonymous

    With all your moral platitudes about abortion, I never once heard you offer to adopt.
    It’s the same thing with all the fat white bald crazies running around killing doctors to “protect the unborn”. Bull Shit…
    Mention the phase “would you adopt?” and they shrivel up like a vampire in daylight.

  • Anonymous

    This post illustrates the bizarre mindset that many of the right-wingers enjoy these days. The use of capital letters says it all. This is what is coming to the bodies of American women…..

  • Guest

    Smaller, less intrusive. I guess size doesn’t matter. But the hypocrisy is what is intolerable. What is so less intrusive about forcing you to have a baby?? That’s what I don’t get about being a Republican’t. All the contradictions and exceptions. How do they carry around all that luggage??

  • Anonymous

    Here’s how you stop the abortion-obsessed in their tracks: register fetuses as republicans….

  • Guest

    Twenty years ago, as a result of another wonderful Bush-fueled economy, I couldn’t find work as a graphic designer and worked for 2 years as a custodian for the local school district. The old-timers (teachers, staff, etc.) who had been there for over 20 years, (before Roe v Wade) still had the images fresh in their memories of poor girls, who were children to begin with, taking matters in their own hands , when they felt there was no other place to turn to.

    Without being graphic, lets just say, these were not the kind of stories that had happy endings.

  • Anonymous

    “Best…Worst…”????? What a load of delusional crap. Bottom line: keep your ideas out of other peoples bodies.

    Anyone else notice how the anti-privacy wingnuts parade out the most photogenic young women as their spokesmodels when the real face of this effort is either a dried-up post-reproductive hag or a corpulent small-penised d-bag? Maybe the new “face” could be the shirtless torso of former U.S. Representative Chris Lee, the two-term virulent anti-choice loser who was looking for sex on Craigslist. Bet he’d be for abortion if the person he cheated on his wife with somehow got pregnant.

  • Anonymous

    Lynn Wachtmann is a man. He’s been sucking at the teat of Ohio politics for decades. I doubt if he really cares one way or the other about abortion, but even if this bill fails, he can point to it and say, “Hey, I tried!” The bill is less about women and more about Lynn keeping his seat and concentrating political power. He represents NW Ohio, about as conservative an area as anywhere in Texas – I know, I grew up there.

  • Anonymous

    Here’s a pretty good example of why Rawstory can never be allowed to be the successor of HuffPo. The Jew-baiting that goes on in the comments sections is almost as bad as anything you’ll find on the Fox blog(s). We would be laughing stocks the minute the Right-Wing press got a gander at the catbox full of steaming shit posted here – like KathyF’s latest foray into turgid claptrap.

  • Anonymous

    I love your little mouse playing the accordion! But it’s upside down (the accordian, not the mouse). From a former accordion player.

  • Anonymous

    You are wrong – women DO have the right to take that life. Do you think that abortions didn’t happen before 1973? Women throughout history have searched for the magic conconction that would cause an abortion without killing the mother – most often, it doesn’t work very well. Are you willing for women to go back to the days of finding a back-street abortionist, using coat hangers or some combination of drugs? Because it WILL happen, if it hasn’t already.

  • Anonymous

    You make a valid point. Though in order to get a meaning across one must speak the language. Kind of like an adult trying to teach a child. Sometimes one must dumb things down so the larger point is understood.

  • Guest

    I thought it was Sharia law we were suppose to fear? But the Evangelicals are just as extreme and million times more prevalent here then any muslim sect. This is there pet project and what they don’t realize is they have been led down countless of blind alleys by the Republicans for how long now?

    The right will never repeal abortion. It is the glue that holds the majority members of their constituency together and they know it.

  • Anonymous

    They abort them when they reach 17: to go fight the capitalist pigs wars. Basically, raising cannon fodder.

  • Anonymous

    And just try to get a SSN for a fetus so you can claim them on your 1040.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_J42QSOEGLLXKKILSK6OQZRWON4 Steve Wild

    Unless a person critical of abortion under any circumstances has carried an unwanted pregnancy to full term themself, they speak with no understanding of the varied very personal circumstances a woman can face in an unwanted pregnancy.

    I do not favor abortion as a general practice, but I wlll not make such a deeply personal decision for those women considering such a choice.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_J42QSOEGLLXKKILSK6OQZRWON4 Steve Wild

    I just left Ohio! Good timing. On second thought I moved to Texas. Nevermind.

  • Anonymous

    Another example of neoCON “Bullying” – women, poor, minorities, etc,….

  • Anonymous

    Does this mean that pregnant mothers will get more aid because they are really two people? I don’t think so.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_NL4YSAIMN2T4LVCEXCPTJSEUN4 Palli

    and Viagra is covered by medicare and other national healthcare programs

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QOK3A5WKBNDFQ2J4EF5DD3LNVA lanie

    So, Republicans want LESS GOVERNMENT in our lives, So why the hell can’t they stay out of our BEDROOMS! YEP, protect the unborn , but cut funding to Medicaid. What the heck is wrong with these people!

  • Anonymous

    You treat your fellow humans as stupid idiots

    Do you think that rational human beings are incapabable of detecting bullshit?

    The price of freedom is that you have to put up with everyone. It is a good bargain.

    And do you REALLY think that the “right wing” doesn’t know about this web site already? You really do think that everyone besides yourself is ignorant.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    Hmm, no brain.. what’s the ratio of Liberals to Conservatives among scientists (generally the smartest group on the planet)? 95:5?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    Yep, a poverty stricken woman who is date raped and doesn’t realize she’s pregnant for 40 days or so, even though she can’t pay her rent for the month, she should just “take a trip” that she also has no money for to have an abortion she can’t afford because the Government refuses to fund anything associated with womens health issues that they don’t like. No big deal.

    Of course, your reasoning is exactly why rich bastards don’t mind shitting on the poor. When some Congressman’s wife gets pregnant (and knows it’s from the Mexican help, not her husband), she can just jump a plane for a vacation to Europe and have the abortion done then. They are content to make rules that only the poor end up having to live (or die) by. — that’s why rich bastards have no business running government.

  • Busto

    Perhaps private insurance plans cover Viagra, but Medicare certainly does not. By the way, except for Medicare there are no “national healthcare programs”.

  • http://twitter.com/RavenWytch RavenWytch

    Well, it’s nice to see they have their priorities straight. Unemployment rate: 10.7%, 13th highest foreclosure rate, a 12.7% rise in their homeless population. But forget all that, we’re gonna go after the women.

  • themonk

    So, if life starts at conception, as pro-life advocates, does the woman has the right to take out life insurance before the child is born? If the woman has a miscarrage, can she collect? Or is she charged with fraud and the death of her child? This arguement opens alot of worms.

  • http://bigdanblogger.blogspot.com/ Big Dan

    Isn’t it time we said Ohio gets what they deserve, if they keep “voting” in Republicans?

  • Anonymous

    Thank you kathyf! What is wrong with a world that has no respect what so ever for life?!?!? It’s such a shame that they’re are so many negative comments on here about the “heartbeat bill.” I think it is a wonderful bill and would save the lives of many innocent babies. If a woman doesn’t want to have a baby, then she should just keep her legs closed!

  • Guest

    Make them feel the pain at the polls!

    We need to takeover the Democratic Party at the grassroots like the corporatists did with the Republicans.

    We have to flood the Democrats with real Liberal Progressive candidates that truly represent what we want. It is up to Us, the People.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    “The secret is giving as much life as you are forced to take. ”

    By your direction, with even two atoms of O being “alive”, every compound made of atoms must be alive.. that means that that oxygen isn’t “killed” by being breathed, it is incorporated into other living things and lives on. Transforming life is not destroying life.. and you suggest even conjoined atoms are “life”.. therefore, terminating a fetus’ path and setting those atoms on a new path to be absorbed by other living things, is a non-issue for you. After all, plants need carbon to grow (living things) and a fetus will decompose into carbon and gasses (which will be absorbed by other living things allowing them to continue to live and grow).. not to mention all the bacteria and fungi and worms and other “life” that will spring into existence from that material..

    You’re right; given the destruction an adult human visits on the world, it’s better to set that fetus to supporting more benign forms of life before it can become a tool of destruction. … oh, wait, we can’t ever actually be tools of destruction because even rocks are “alive” by your calculus of two atoms joined is “life”.

    Of course, you’re failing to allow for a hierarchy of life, ignoring the difference between life with a brain and life without out. You’re failing to account for the conservation of energy, as well, which means the end result of everything is that everything still exists in some form (much of which comes back as “life”).. and terminating a pregnancy does nothing to alter the net energy/atom count of the Universe, just as letting that fetus become an adult human has no real impact on such things (unless they detonate a nuclear device and split atoms and release that energy.. no going back to matter with it at that point; though, the energy still exists in the Universe so nothing is really “lost” from it).

    At the end of the day, the construct of “viable” means a fetus no longer needs to be an appendage of another creature to live. And as long as that fetus is an appendage of a woman, it’s HER business, no body elses. … they have hearts beating in jars right now, just hearts and nothing else.. do we charge those scientists with murder once they terminate that experiment?

    Your personal views are your business.. but hopefully you’re not so detached from reality that you want to impose your own personal delusions on everyone else.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_TX3MXXPF52BXCKGNLDNPADILPQ paul rogers

    I’m not sure where you got your got your statistic, but you might be intersted to learn that there are many differernt types of intelligence (I think some scientists figured that out). There are also a couple of other attributes that all the science in the world can’t give you: Wisdom and common sense.

  • http://www.rawstory.com/ Stumptownhero

    Actually I think your “arguement” opens a lot of wombs….sorry I couln’t help it!

  • http://www.rawstory.com/ Stumptownhero

    The readers of RAW could give a flying F**k what the rightwing sound machine thinks of our comments!

    Like Fran says below the sane among us can find our own truths!

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    “Ohioan wants an abortion they can always go to Michigan, Indiana, Kentucky, or West Virginia to get one. . . . but the drive gives the parents”

    It will never cease to amaze me how people are willing to disconnect themselves from reality to support tyranny. You make a LOT of presumptions based on YOUR life while ignoring the realities for other people.. “the drive”? because everyone has a car or can afford fare on a bus? “parents”? because no single women end up pregnant? Or you presume the donor should have some say in what happens to the woman who is ultimately responsible for that potential life? .. ‘always some other place they can go’? unless it ends up that “all States” wish to restrict a woman’s rights.. then what? the individual can fuck off and suffer, suck it up.. raise a product of rape on her own because the States “don’t like the idea” of individuals making up their own minds?

    I’m guessing you’re either pro-life from religious indoctrination or lack of knowledge of biology… or there’s that idea you have of “two oxygen atoms combined to a gas is a living thing”, in which case you’re simply deluded.

    “it’s none of my business” .. applies to a hell of a lot more than just your niece or nephew, it applies to everyone who isn’t YOU.. and if you support your State on denying others the right to choose what’s right for them, you’re making it your business (and you’re abusing others). You’re being a coward and copping out to defer to “the State”; tell your State it has no right to legislate religious views onto the public, because that’s what this boils down to.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    it’s a lot easier to tell if there’s a heart beat than to measure brain activity in utero. .. then you still have the question of “which brain activity” since the medulla oblongata runs some autonomic functions, but there still is no brain growth present that supports thinking or feeling. You could still register activity, but it’s no more than that of a frog..

  • http://www.rawstory.com/ Stumptownhero

    Do these “law makers” ever get legal advice before setting out to placate their rabid supporters? This bill will only cost the state millions to defend in court and will ultimately run afoul of Roe!

    Sisyphus would be proud of the RTL crowd!

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    Yeah, because EVERY woman out there does that, right?

    I guess we know where the intelligence fairy forgot to go to.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    pro-life districts.

  • Anonymous

    How come no one ever notices that its mostly a bunch of old white males who want to stop all abortions…could it be their natural “herding” extinct..or is it just a “control” the women issue…either way…me thinks their peckers are doing their thinking for them…men thinking with their “between the legs ego” (brain)….big surprise…huh?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    I don’t think they expected he would actually be able to get all 3 branches of government for them.. he caused the powers that be some real heart ache by showing the public that even when the Dems are in charge, the Plutes come first.

    The filibuster was a rouse; not once did the right-wing _actually_ have to filibuster, and the MSM was awash with “you need 60 votes”.. and the ignorant public repeated that lie over and over and over and gave the Dems a pass.. and now they are back to “but we don’t control all of it, ‘THEY’ control a branch so we’ll never get acceptable bills made!”.

    The Two Party Lie was laid out for all to see, and most are still blind.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    More proof of your lack of intelligence.. no wonder you think women are stupid, you only have yourself to refer to. Poor thing.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    I think I’m going to nominate you for the Stupidest Person Alive award.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    It’s a continuation of the Reagen tactic of bringing religion into politics.. to get the church dwellers out and voting against their own self interests; their religion prepared them for abuse by telling them they were born bad, and that being treated bad while alive is dandy because it will be better when they die. These mental midgets transpose their victim status into an acceptance of abuse from the Plutes (and support foisting it on the rest of us).

    There’s a _reason_ the Founding Fathers said to keep religion out of politics.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    There you go again.. trying to bring logic, reason, and science into it.

  • Anonymous

    These are the same nutjobs who are afraid of tyranny?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    Yeah, what were those stupid rape victims thinking!

  • WitsEnd66

    That is the issue people have to get in tune with. The anti-choice people don’t believe in birth control or abortion but they want men to be able to procreate on our tax dollars. This is a joke. Any state that passes a bill like this should be forced by law to financially and emotionally support the children it forces to be born. They love the unborn, but wash their hands once birth takes place. This is a result of the men never being held accountable for creating life.

  • Anonymous

    Rape victims are a very small portion of women who get an abortion. If a child results from rape, they still deserve the right to be born and have a life. They’re are lots of people in this world who can not have children of their own who would love to adopt one of the poor murdered babies. Woman need to realize that God gave us an amazing gift, the gift to bring life into this world, and we should cherish that fact and not keep trying to Murder innocent babies.

  • Anonymous

    Actually I found the discussion interesting. Don’t agree with much, but like the debate. And repressing people’s prejudices won’t solve anything. Get it out in the open where it can be addressed.

  • Anonymous

    “That prompted Case Western Law School professor Jessie Hill to call the bill “symbolic legislation … that’s clearly unconstitutional,” reported the Cleveland Plain Dealer.”

    I believe that Justice (oh, the irony in that title) Scalia would demand to differ on that point. And don’t forget that even at that level, God is in the Mix…or at least his money is.

  • PrissyPatriot®

    Oh gawd that figures-I don’t keep up much with that part of the state…thanks for the info, ms.

  • Anonymous

    Why is it right to bring too many babies into an overpopulated world? Why do you want them to suffer?

  • Lincoln Paradox

    Technically, the heartbeat can not be heard until there is a heart, which is somewhere between day 30 and day 49, post-fertilization. Most women don’t even know that they are pregnant until around day 14, since the missed menstrual period is usually the first obvious indicator of pregnancy.

    Heck, anywhere from 30-60% of all embryos don’t make it through gastrulation (day 10).

    My point is, if the women doesn’t have at least a month past her first missed period, she can’t be expected to make any decision on the pregnancy, because she wouldn’t know she was pregnant.

  • Anonymous

    Until the people realize that the GOP want to take us back and restrict our freedoms we will be doomed to this silliness and waste of time on decided social issues. They scream about getting their freedoms taken from President Obama while they are taking freedoms away. Hypocyispy is appalling. Wake up people of Ohio and elsewhere. The GOP/TeaKKKparty don’t care about you or creating jobs. They want wage slaves that is their real agenda.

  • Anonymous

    Compassion extends beyond the individual to the entire human species. Have some respect for your species too. We are overpopulated and we will drive ourselves extinct unless we control our population.

    “If a woman doesn’t want to have a baby, then she should just keep her legs closed!”

    Wow aren’t you just great. Punish the child by forcing them upon an unwanted mother.

  • http://twitter.com/modchen dr. angelface

    word.

  • http://twitter.com/modchen dr. angelface

    should the women of Ohio who *didn’t* vote for these rethugs be forced to “get what they deserve”?

    this isn’t a state-government issue.

  • Anonymous

    i figure that if you don’t have a uterus, you don’t get to make ANY kind of fucking decision for those that do…..YET if you wish to make those decisions, you THEN get the old “snip-snip” and forgo any kind of spawning your own self…..

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_UCUTJ7W5EZJSAVR5Q6Z2PXU3KI Laurie Kidd

    I suppose as a member of the NRA he could assist with the overpopulated world problem. If he is a member of the NRA, wouldnt this be in conflict with his right to Life beliefs.

  • Anonymous

    Well, that’s what works for them. That, and gay bashing. Why mess with a winner? Who cares about what actually happens to the country, or women, or their families.

  • Anonymous

    False assumptions about someone you don’t know
    will get you nowhere.

    And, you cannot pardon abortion, on the grounds that war
    means people die. It’s flawed thinking in every way.

  • Anonymous

    We already have a good transportation network, and it’s been paid for
    1000 times by the gas taxes collected at the pump. Look at a map.
    What it has created is an excuse to force more and more taxes out
    of people’s pockets by the feds, the states and even in some places
    city governments and ‘authorities’ that collect on toll roads.

    Further, name one good thing that has come of federal R&D that is
    available to the public? Hell, name one thing the public even knows
    about. You’ll be hard pressed to the task.

  • Anonymous

    I’m a libertarian, not a member of the Tea Party.
    Is it beyond you anti-baggers to be at all intelligent
    in your arguments?

  • Anonymous

    I’m not the world cop of mothers with daughters. Are you?

    I don’t presume to control the behaviors of anyone but myself.
    My own children were certainly not taught that they must
    spend their lives pampering and pleasing men with vapid
    sexuality.

    Intelligent people believe in free agency for all individuals.
    It is fearful people who believe all behaviors must be controlled
    by tyranny.

    When each person takes responsibility for themselves
    and responsibility for the well being of their children, this world
    will be a better place.

  • Anonymous

    Unlike you, I am able to imagine the world we would have
    without government intervention and suppression of
    real creativity.

    The government does nothing but create ways to make
    us slaves to systems that can be controlled by them,
    in order to use us and fleece us.

    Tesla’s development of electricity would have been free
    for all, everywhere. Federal funding of his rivals, Marconi
    and Bell, ensured we would be organized into hives,
    paying for electricity via the controlled grid.

    Read something other than Vogue, I beg you.

  • Anonymous

    Anarchy is never an answer,
    I will give to any question.

  • Anonymous

    The lack of memory in most people of the time they spend growing
    before they are born,
    does not mean they were not living before they were born.

  • Anonymous

    Or, we could have some self respect, go after education and
    self reliance instead of enslavement to male whims.

  • Anonymous

    First, I would not equate Republicans with patriots
    Many Republicans have proved themselves to be
    near nazis when wielding power.

    Second, I would agree that federal funding for abortion
    under Republican oversight is their problem, just as
    Democrat oversight of federal funding for abortion,
    is a Democrat problem.

    Politicizing of abortion can go no further than that
    as far as I am concerned.
    Are funds available for the procedures or not.
    And they definitely should NOT be available.

    —–Original Message—–

  • Anonymous

    Brilliantly stated. (shakes head)

  • Anonymous

    The paid task of completing a public works project,
    is not employment, technically. Real employment can
    only be created in manufacturing. Civil service is
    real employment but produces nothing, so is parasitic
    in nature on those who do produce, so is techincally
    not employment.

    Real employment = ongoing production/sales.

    Production however, must be ongoing, in order for
    employment to be ongoing.

    The federal brainwashing that they can produce
    income for someone, by deficit spending is of course,
    highly advertised very attractively, but not effective
    for a healthy economy.

    Though for a while we had a growth economy
    in the US, a growth economy is not a long term
    economy. Manufacturing, which has been stripped
    out of the economy by manipulation of corporations,
    was the backbone of the economy, and it is gone.

    This is why there is no economy to speak of,
    left in America.

    We can recover only by legalizing microloans
    for business start ups, limiting collateral to business
    acquisitions, and placing tariffs on imports.

    This is the ONLY way America can recover
    her economy.

  • Anonymous

    Here we have the frightened male, trying to bully the females
    from getting in touch with their intelligent sides.

    Oh no. Wars would stop. Where would they get their uniforms.
    Oh no. Porn would stop. Bimbos would cease to exist.
    Ohhhh nooooooo. (essence of Mr. Bill)

    Back of hand to forehead. Wait. If women get in touch with
    their intelligent sides, men will have to be gasp lurch
    responsible aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaccccckkkkkk.

    Respectful aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh
    Truthful AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.
    The pain, the agony.

  • Anonymous

    Making tax funds available for,
    and ‘outlawing’ are two different things.
    The government, has no business assigning
    criminal code and penalty
    to matters between a doctor and patient.

    However, there isn’t a doctor in practice
    who does not know abortion kills a human
    that is growing in the womb, just like
    a child grows after it is born.

    Doctors know what life is and what
    it isn’t.

    To kill a human is murder.
    There are plenty of criminal codes
    between law enforcement/judiciary
    and doctors to prevent ongoing
    murder, whether it is people not
    yet born, or people already born.

  • Anonymous

    Or both. I think though, that competition between
    females for beauty and accomplishment,
    or even sports, becomes
    something else when sexualized for male pleasure.
    (and when sexualized before puberty is disgusting
    and perverted)

  • Anonymous

    As a matter of fact I would adopt.
    Even after raising six of my own. However, you would
    be the type to scream, you are too old. What are you
    thinking.

    We love kids in my family. So far, I have 15 grandkids
    and I’m not 60 yet.

    Many people my age and income level are adopting
    from out of the country, because there is so much to
    give and no living children to give to, available for adoption
    in the US.

    DHS has corralled available children by the millions
    into some private pedophile ring that people are being
    killed for looking into.

    Look into it yourself if you don’t believe me.

  • Anonymous

    We always is We The People, in my posts.
    We The People of the United States of America, cannot command
    respect if we act like barbaric cannibals.

    Better?

  • Anonymous

    Women DO NOT have the right to murder their unborn child
    any more than anyone else has the right to kill the unborn child.

    That said, all people are going to do what they are going to do.
    The woman who has an abortion is no different than the wacko
    who shoots someone on the street.

    The woman who is pressured into an abortion, forced into one,
    by others, is as much a victim as the baby who dies during the
    procedure.

    Women have always had a safe way to ‘not have a baby’
    and that is to ‘not have sex’ or at least not have intercourse
    sex with ejaculation from a male.

  • Anonymous

    Another terrified guy, trying to keep
    women from thinking about something other
    than pleasing his whims.

  • Anonymous

    Well haven’t you just put me in my place.
    Gosh, I don’t know whether to eat ice cream or cry.
    Joe has nominated me for stupid.
    My world has ended. Oh me oh my.
    I wonder if the sun will rise tomorrow.

  • Anonymous

    Over 700 female students per month get pregnant while drunk
    at NAU. They use Planned Parenthood for their abortions as
    birth control.

    The deeply personal decisions make many of them permanently
    sterile after repeated procedures, and result in long term
    difficulties requiring major surgeries as they age, as well as
    causing psychosis and clinical depression.

    This is just one small town in northern AZ. Imagine what is
    going on in LA, NY, and other big cities.

    Women are going to have to face the fact that their bodies
    make babies under certain circumstances and wise up about risk
    and self destructive behaviors.

  • Anonymous

    Please get a dictionary.
    Look up d e f i c i t
    I can’t give a free lesson in economics every time
    you don’t understand something I’ve posted.
    I don’t even know how to explain it in simple enough
    terms so you would.
    There is another post about this. If you are interested
    in something besides being a boorish lout,
    look it up.

  • http://www.rawstory.com/ Stumptownhero

    You have been sold a pile of BS by the RTL crowd. Recent studies, credible scientific studies, reveal that there is NO increase in depression of those who have exercised their right to choose. Additionally your claim about sterility is also bogus unless you are talking about persons who have had the procedure in the double digits.

    Lastly, where are you getting your facts about abortions at Northern Arizona University? If you have a credible source they are violating a FEDERAL LAW and should be sent to jail!

  • http://twitter.com/slgilley Sean Gilley

    kathyf said: Man has to learn to respect life or he will destroy himself..
    Whether it be Mother Earth,plant,human,,etc,,

    Then do not, of course, eat any kind of meat of fish, correct? Further, you eat no plants which are killed when harvested, correct? If you do, then you have already shown that, by your own definition that you do not respect life.

    No eggs, because that’s killing a chicken, and I could make very compelling arguments against other dairy as well.

    So, by your own definition, at the very least, your food should be plant based, although I guess I’d agree you could have milk and cheese products without breaking your own rules.

    So, Kathy, as long as you’re a strict vegetarian, then while I disagree with you, I’d believe you to be consistant.

    I have a very high respect for life. I just don’t believe that a first trimester embyo or fetus is “life” in the same way as a full term baby

  • http://twitter.com/slgilley Sean Gilley

    Sigh. I have a very high regard and respect for life. I simply don’t believe that a first trimester embryo or fetus qualifies as life. It is living, but it isn’t life in a form I believe must be protected by law. And, I’m sorry, but calling something less than an inch long a “baby” is grossly misusing the term.

    And “she should just keep her legs closed” shows us that you have no tolerence for views other than your own, as well as having no sympathy for rape or incest victims, or even women who find the fetus has a low likelyhood of evening surviving to be born.

    Not everyone thinks that sex outside of marraige is wrong, and for you to deny the statistics which show that kids are having sex at earlier ages than they have in the past and to tell those girls that they must carry a baby to full term when other less painful solutions exist is heartless.

  • http://twitter.com/slgilley Sean Gilley

    But women who are raped don’t deserved to be punished by forcing them to carry a child to full term.

  • Anonymous

    nogadianton
    If you are willing and or have adopted then I am shamefully wrong.
    Nobody is ever to old to love and raise a child.

    Now the tough part, “Personally” I think abortion is a rotten form of birth control, but as a MALE, I will never have to make that decision. I do agree that it is the taking of a life. But I as a MALE have no right to dictate what a woman wants to do with her body. This is not an issue for the Government, this is an issue for a woman, her moral compass, and her doctor.

    If abortion is outlawed, then the wealthy will do as they’ve always done and go offshore but the poor have no recourse other than the back alley days where many young woman’s lives were lost.

  • Anonymous

    Ok, I totally think you all are missing the point. If a woman is on the way
    to an abortion clinic and has a wreck (caused by another person) and the
    baby dies, the person could be charged with reckless homicide for the death
    of the baby that was about to be aborted. If we want to control the
    population on the planet, then we need to give out birth control more freely
    and talk about consequences for your actions. I baby is a baby from the
    time of conception and God has a plan for that life, unless a thoughtless,
    heartless, selfish mother takes that life away because she just doesn’t want
    to deal with a pregnancy or a child.

  • Anonymous

    You are putting just as much value in the life of an animal as you are the life of a human. I know you are “trying” to make a joke, but the message is the same either way. A human life, a baby, has far more value than that of an animal.

  • Anonymous

    It was Robin Williams who said:-
    “God gave man a brain and a penis – and only enough blood to run one at a time.”

    This matter is obviously far too complicated for creatures with “and a penis” to decide — why don”t they leave important matters relating to women’s reproductive organs to women to decide?

    Really!
    I thought it was the Muslims and their Sharia Law that were supposed to be the oppressors and suppressors of women… not their civilized secular counterparts in “Western lands.”

  • Anonymous

    And he should keep Dickie zipped.?

    In this day and age of DNA testing and paternity verification here’s a thought….
    If the law determines that she may not abort an unwanted pregnancy it should per force also determine that if she doesn’t want the child, he gets to pay all pregnancy and childbirth related bills and accept the baby and all responsibility for its future life, education and well being as a matter of course.

    Men should accept the responsibility and liability for the unwanted pregnancies they create when they also create laws to control it that affect only the other side of the equation.

  • Anonymous

    Stop letting these control freak theocrats frame the debate, call them for what they are: Forced Birthers.

  • Anonymous

    People that don’t have the ability to get pregnant shouldn’t be making the rules for the ones that do.

  • Anonymous

    May your next “blessing” KILL YOU, you stupid breeder FOR PEDOPHILE PRIESTS! Childbirth fistulas, cancers, organ failures, limb-amputating infections, and autoimmune diseases JUSTIFY SELF-DEFENDING ABORTIONS. Mothers are innocent, except for death cult breeders like you.

  • Anonymous

    You sure are stupid about pregnancy dangers.

  • Anonymous

    If you drink abortifacient caffeine, YOU are a “baby-killer” yourself!

  • Anonymous

    And you MOTHER-KILLERS will quadruple the sexually trafficked kids, PEDOPHILE!

  • Anonymous

    Because fetal idolators like you only hire lookers — my anti-abortion mom burned all my skin off when I was in first grade as her permanent abstinence excuse and I had to spend $100,000 on plastic surgery to avoid constant firings for the scars, never mind my talent. Clarence Thomas denied me equal pay because my abuse scars offended his playboy standards.

  • Anonymous

    We know you cheat on your childbirth-incontinent brood mare!

  • Anonymous

    You’re bullying us to be throw-away brood mares for you PEDOPHILES!

  • Anonymous

    Do you realize ALL mother-killing husbands cheat because they’re grossed out by their wives’ childbirth injuries like INCONTINENCE, BREAST AND FACE CANCERS, AND LIMB AMPUTATIONS???

  • Anonymous

    IF YOU’RE SO INTELLIGENT, HOW COME YOU DON’T KNOW THAT ALL FETUSES MAIM AND THREATEN THEIR MOTHERS’ LIVES??

  • Anonymous

    So you are commanding MARRIED women to give up sex, and expect their husbands not to beat them or cheat?? Wow, you’re stupid and a SEX-HATING HYPOCRITE!

  • Anonymous

    Depression As A Result Of An Abortion
    One of the most common causes of long-standing depression is guilt from an abortion. I know. You think you’re over it. Not so, in many cases. Here’s why.
    http://www.enotalone.com/article/2624.html – Cached – Similar

    Depression after abortion
    Feb 5, 2006 … My girlfriend has had two abortions in the past six months. She is finding them extremely hard to deal with, and o…

    Abortion and Depression
    The New Zealand study found that having an abortion as a young woman raises the risk of developing mental health problems such as depression and anxiety. …
    http://www.abortiontv.com/Glitch/AbortionAndDepression.htm – Cached – Similar

    Recent Studies Confirm Women Face Depression After Abortion, Other …
    Sep 28, 2010 … Abortions increased the risk of severe depression and anxiety by one-third and as many as 5.5 percent of all mental health disorders seen in …
    http://www.lifenews.com/2010/09/28/nat-6733/ – Cached

    Abortions Cause Severe Depression for Women, New Study Shows …
    Jan 2, 2006 … Abortions Cause Severe Depression for Women, New Study Shows Email … The New Zealand study found that having an abortion as a young woman …
    http://www.lifenews.com/2006/01/02/nat-1941/ – Cached

    The abortions are at Planned Parenthood. The students attend NAU.

    Abortion Can Damage Women
    Normally, only about 10% of all marriages will be childless due to sterility. But the situation is greatly changed if an earlier abortion has taken place. …
    http://www.pathlights.com/abortion/abort05.htm – Cached – Similar

    Post-Abortion Problems: Procedural Risks & Complications
    Jul 14, 2002 … Sterility. Because of such early complications as infections after an abortion, the uterus is often scarred. If the scar tissue covers the …
    http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/tul/pap4.html – Cached – Similar

    http://www.abortionfacts.com/reardon/after_effects_of_abortion.asp

    From the Elliot Institute.

  • Anonymous

    No worries.
    Salute : )

  • Anonymous

    I understand what you mean.
    As a single mom who has worked most of her life
    on construction sites, I’ve faced unbelievable gender
    bias, and now face unbelievable age bias.
    As an employer though, when that has been the
    case, I don’t worry about looks. I worry about brains.

    I’m not a fetal idolator, just don’t believe it’s right
    to kill your own kids, or hurt them for that matter.
    I’m sorry about your mom. I had a difficult mom
    also. My inner scars only show when I encounter
    kindness from strangers.

  • Anonymous

    You sound a little nuts.
    I’m not a dude.

  • Anonymous

    I know that 99% of married men will cheat if they have the chance.
    During the Viet Nam war it was 70%
    During WWII it was 30%.
    And sorry, but I’ve had six kids, and had no childbirth injuries.
    Most women don’t have childbirth injuries like the one’s
    you’ve described. You might want to tack on a source
    for your info.

  • Anonymous

    Geez. The abortion issue is NOT about married women.
    If you are experiencing abuse at the hands of your husband,
    that is a completely different issue that you should address
    with law enforcement professionals, counselors and
    assistance locations called safe houses. The Salvation
    Army is a good place to start if you don’t have money.
    If you do, pack up and leave. Abusers never change.

  • Anonymous

    Oh dear, I know all to well about pregnancy dangers and complications. I
    have had two miscarriages (which is why I am so anti-abortion) My husband
    and I desperatly wanted those babies but the Lord had other plans for them.
    I have also carried triplets to 35 weeks gestation. They are 7 months old
    now and doing great, but I sure do know what it is like to have a high risk
    pregnancy. Thanks be to God that the trips were born healthy and I had a
    rather uneventful multiple pregnancy, but it was not without doctors visit
    every week. I know so many women who wanted their babies but they
    miscarried, that it just makes me sick to my stomach to think that other
    mothers MURDER their babies.

  • Anonymous

    - On another note, I have never met a woman who regrets having their
    child, but I know several women who really regret aborting their child.
    They are in concealing several times a week and are a real mess.

  • Anonymous

    Ok so now you want to KILL anyone who does not agree with you???? You sound
    like Hitler! Kill off anyone who is not like you or does not agree with you
    and then your world would just be perfect. I think you are CRAZY!!!!

  • Anonymous

    I do not agree with abortion at all, but I highly believe in birth control. I wish that birth control could be given out more freely and that everyone who is sexually active who does not want a child would use it. I agree with you that we, as a society, need to take more responsibility for all children and make sure they are in a safe nurturing environment, but I just don’t feel that abortion is that answer.

  • WitsEnd66

    I think we are pretty much on the same page.  I definitely don’t believe in
    abortion as a form of birth control.  I’m 65 years old and have watched these
    battle all of my adult life.  I have had 2 friends who had abortions (one by
    choice and one because of health issues) and I can tell you that to this day it
    tears at them.  Iam also old enough to remember what it was like before Roe v
    Wade.  Abortions will be done whether they are legal or not  but if made
    illegal, women will have to lea the country for the procedure or they will have
    them done by unqualified people and die.  The greater tragedies are the children
    born to people who can’t take care of them or that don’t want them.  T’he most
    awful thing are the efforts being made currently to deny an abortion resulting
    from rape or incest.  I can guarantee this would not be the case if men weren’t
    the largest segment of people promoting those laws.  I wonder how they would
    view it if it were their wife or daughter.  Yes, birth control and education are
    the best answer.

    Just looked at the date–have a Happy Valentine’s Day.

     

    ________________________________

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_3UCCVJLY2IDSIWFBPERONRYTQ4 Linda S

    >>DHS has corralled available children by the millions
    into some private pedophile ring that people are being
    killed for looking into<<

    I was starting to think you were nuts.

    Now I know you're bat-shit crazy.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_3UCCVJLY2IDSIWFBPERONRYTQ4 Linda S

    I’ve never met a woman who regretted her abortion.

    I’ve met several who hate their kids and wished they HAD aborted.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_3UCCVJLY2IDSIWFBPERONRYTQ4 Linda S

    >>They’re are lots of people in this world who can not have children of their own<<

    Maybe the reason they can't is because god knew they'd be lousy parents.

  • Anonymous

    Linda S – That is horrible!!! I sure hope you are kidding! Saying you
    “hate” your kid, or anything for that matter sure is a strong bold
    statement. I’m very sorry for the people that you know that wish they would
    have murdered their children, it must be awful to go through life with that
    kind of a mind set.

  • Anonymous

    Ok, I might can get on board with you on this one, but what is your
    reasoning for God allowing women to get pregnant with a healthy baby who is
    just going to murder it before it even has a chance at life? Of course
    anyone who is going to abort a baby is a lousy parent. Just because you
    abort a child does not mean that you are not a parent, it just means that
    you are a parent of a child that you killed.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_6S5RID7A6J26DCWKHKXONM3JLY Danny

    I believe the right to access an abortion should be expanded to giving the prospective father the same right to terminate an abortion as the mother. Thus freeing him from two forms of slavery. !. To contribute to the financial well being of the mother and 2. To the state by having to reimburse the welfare department for money they give to the mother. Give men the same and equal say in their reproductive rights as is currently the exclusive right of the woman only. What say you Rachel Maddow?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_3UCCVJLY2IDSIWFBPERONRYTQ4 Linda S

    Drinking the kool-aid, I see. If you’ve never given birth, you’re not a parent. And, abortion is NOT murder. Murder is illegal. Since abortion is legal, it isn’t murder. You don’t like abortion, don’t have one.

  • Anonymous

    Just because the courts say it’s legal does not mean that it is right.
    Don’t worry, I won’t get an abortion and I will pray daily that one day they
    will be banned and that women will take responsibility for their bodies and
    actions and stop taking the “easy” way out. I find it funny that most
    people on here really only want their opinion to be heard. If there is an
    opinion different from their own, they just don’t want to hear it. I love
    that we can disagree on something and have a debate. I wish that more
    people on here were God fearing Christians who respected our Lord and his
    laws, but I do understand that not everybody feels the same way as I do
    about murdering innocent lives.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_3UCCVJLY2IDSIWFBPERONRYTQ4 Linda S

    LOL!! You will NEVER be able to “ban” abortion. All you will be able to do is drive it underground. Are you so stupid you think women didn’t have abortions before 1973?

  • Anonymous

    No need for name calling. I know that women have always found ways to have
    an abortion even before it was legal. I just wish it wasn’t so easy to
    get.

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