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NRA chief blames government ‘failures,’ media for Tucson shooting

By Daniel Tencer
Thursday, February 10, 2011 20:05 EDT
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The head of the National Rifle Association came out swinging Thursday against a wave of gun-control legislation proposed in the wake of the Tucson shooting, saying that government policies and media sensationalism — rather than lax gun laws — were to blame for the tragedy.

“If Tucson told us anything, it told us this: government failed,” Wayne LaPierre said in a speech to the Conservative Political Action Conference, as quoted at The Hill.

LaPierre argued guns laws offer more protection to killers than to their victims, and criticized “gun-free zones and anti-self defense laws that protected the safety of no one except the killers and condemned the victims to death without so much as a prayer,” CBS reported.

He had particularly tough words for a proposal to ban high-capacity ammunition clips, such as the ones accused Tucson shooter Jared Loughner allegedly used to fire 31 shots in a matter of seconds on Jan. 8, hitting 19 people, including Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, and killing six, including a nine-year-old girl.

“These clowns want to ban magazines,” LaPierre said. “Are you kidding me? But that’s their response to the blizzard of violence and mayhem affecting our nation. One more gun law on top of all of the laws already on the books.”

The Arizona state legislature this month began debating a bill that would ban ammunition clips that hold more than 10 rounds. Among its backers is Kelly O’Brien, the fiancee of Gabe Zimmerman, an aide to Rep. Giffords.

“Extended magazine clips are currently an easily accessible weapon for troubled individuals to use in mass murder,” O’Brien said Tuesday. “That is what happened on Jan. 8, and that is how Gabe was killed. This must not be allowed to happen again.”

LaPierre argued the law would not stop violence.

“When they tell you that a government ban on certain guns or magazines will stop violence, don’t you buy it, not for one second,” he said.

LaPierre also suggested that the media was partly to blame for tragedies such as Tucson because its coverage of shooting tragedies breeds copycats.

The media “turns a madman into a hero for every potential deranged copycat out there,” he said, as quoted at CBS. “It’s sick, it’s wrong and the media out to be ashamed of themselves.”

A number of gun-control proposals were put forward in Washington and Arizona following the Jan. 8 shooting, and the Obama administration indicated it would support some sort of legislative reaction. But in the weeks since, momentum for gun control has fizzled, and top Democrats have played down the prospects of passing legislation.

 
 
 
 
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  • Anonymous

    up is really down

  • Anonymous

    I fail to see how the law would help… so, a 10-round clip would shoot 11 (one chambered) instead of 31? big woop! So 1/3rd less would die? I’m actually right of center on guns and think the failure happened at the sale. I believe a 3-day wait is reasonable and I believe that in this day in age with computers that whoever sold it should have had access to information about the shooter.

    However, his information wasn’t there because law enforcement was lax on reporting incidents with him, right?

    I also believe everyone should be required to take a gun safety course before purchasing a weapon.

    But I’m FAR Right on registration… State and Federal should NOT run registration – that should be done by an independent contractor.

  • Anonymous

    LaPierre is LaLaLaInsane.

  • Anonymous

    1/3 less would die is a big woop? But you would feel differently if that included your mom, or sister, or daughter, or boyfriend. What you are right of is sanity, like the rest of the gun toting nut balls in this country.

  • Anonymous

    I think you don’t understand my point. I’m saying dropping it to 11 shots is worthless… Then they’ll say drop it to 6, or a 2 shot pistol… Does it really matter? No, people will still use weapons. I’m just saying that there are a lot of other things that could be done that would be far more effective.

  • Anonymous

    The nra can kiss my freakin butt. They must be feeling a tad guilty and don’t want any new laws to cut into their profits! I wonder why is it they encourage the masses to be well armed and they end up shooting each other. They supply the damn guns and they NEVER get shot! I know it’s about greed, but is there never a time when they have enough money? Is there ever a time when some one is killed by one of their guns and they have an honest feeling of empathy for the victim and might feel in some way they are responsible? Or has the empathy gene been bred out of the rich pricks who made their fortune off the deaths of others.

  • Anonymous

    Hey LaPisshead,
    Tuscon was worse because of a law we took OFF the books. People with guns kill people.

  • Anonymous

    Yeah, so why not a bazooka? People are gonna die anyway, so why can’t I have a tank?

  • http://www.youtube.com/user/RepublicConstitution?feature=mhum TruthRegimes

    NRA is wrong to blame the wrong thing and the Establishment Left is wrong to blame the 2nd amendment. Both should pull their heads out of their —– and blame the crazy kook who went on the tirade.

  • https://me.yahoo.com/a/K_CaOvViioLZynx.lwriWv6C_QxA3bg-#ffb59 WillyTee

    @ nobonehead, If you have enough money you can have anything you want.

  • Anonymous

    DUDE! Stay on point! We’re talking about multi-round clips, not bazookas or tanks. What good is talking if you’re going to escalate the conversations with stupid statements! Most of the time I’m fighting off Republicans who don’t know how to have a conversation… Never thought I’d have problems with a progressive like me!

    Talking about the price of eggs has nothing to do with what we’re talking about here!

  • Anonymous

    Shorter magazines are easier to carry and conceal, and are faster to reload.

  • Anonymous

    You can buy a tank. All it takes is a pile of money. Goto Military Vehicle Preservation Association’s website.

  • Anonymous

    good point! As I said, changing the size of the mag won’t really help the situation. There are other things that could be more effective.

  • Anonymous

    Translation: “Gubmnt bad! Gubmnt failed! Gubmnt bad! Corporations good!”

  • jimbo

    Bullshit. Name some.

  • Phil E. Drifter

    He’s absolutely right.

    Before you people come into this thread with your minds already made up on what you want to say, remember these things:

    • Loughner bought his gun, and his extended clips, legally
    • Limbaugh/Beck/et al are constantly suggesting violence against people they disagree with
    • the kid was expelled from college until he submitted to counseling/whatever you wanna call it
    • for whatever reason, there was a serious lack of security at this ‘Congress in your Corner’ event
    • he was NOT a member of the NRA (do you people even know what NRA stands for?)
    • just like in VTech/Columbine if more people were armed, the suspect wouldn’t have gotten away with nearly as many hits
    • criminals don’t care about gun laws, they will get their weapons on the black market if they can’t get it legally
    • Palin distributed “Don’t Retreat, Reload!” with a map of the country with 20 crosshairs marked over districts the Repubs wanted to retake

  • Phil E. Drifter

    Arizona cut mental health screening by 50% in 2010.

    Still stand by your statement?

  • Phil E. Drifter

    Are you really that stupid? Oh of course you are.

    Show me Loughner’s NRA membership card. I’ll wait.

    Overdose on prescription medications kill more people than guns. “OMGZZ0RS LETS OUTLAWE PRESCRIPTION MEDS!”

    Vehicular manslaughers kill more people than guns. “OMGGZZ00RS LETS REVOKE EVERYONES LICESNSES!!!1″

    update: Oh yeah, lets not forget about drunk drivers, who get slapped on the wrist and lose their licenses for 3-6 months… Let me do some googling…

    By Jonathan Marshall on September 16, 2010 10:38 AM | Permalink

    According to news reports, an out-of-state driver charged in the drunk driving death of a driver from Lower Township, NJ, has pleaded guilty to that 2009 fatal crash. In addition, court records show that the defendant, 38-year-old John J. Lawless, had been charged with driving under the influence a total of eight times over the course of 13 years.
    http://www.newjerseydwilawyerblog.com/2010/09/nj-drunk-driving-news-outofsta.html

    You: They supply the damn guns and they NEVER get shot!
    Because they’re armed, duh. Would you attack someone knowing they were packing heat?

    If you have a problem with guns, take it up with the 2nd amendment.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_FWJ2XFBBTLV3HKZ6LY5YHV6PWE TrDem55

    Oh my he bought the gun legally cause the laws have been EMASCULATED by teh GUN LOBBY
    Criminals don’t care about GUN LAWS
    GUFFAW, you are kidding right
    why don’t you go down to the local gun show and by a Barrett .50 cal and shoot somebody…cause you CAN buy one cause the GUN SHOWS are a HOLE as WIDE as POSSIBLE so cretins and nutjobs can KILL people with that and a HOST of other guns

  • Anonymous

    I’m ashamed of having such an organization and then having an actual person running such an organization in a country that is ruled by 9 people on a court that says a corporation is a person. And speaking of “corporations”, the NRA is placing itself as another “link” to the fascism:

    “WASHINGTON – The National Rifle Association is creating a news corporation, starting an Internet talk show and preparing to buy a radio station to speak about candidates and gun rights at election time despite new political ad limits”…..

    http://www.shootingworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=35

    WASHINGTON – The National Rifle Association is creating a news corporation, starting an Internet talk show and preparing to buy a radio station to speak about candidates and gun rights at election time despite new political ad limits.

    The 4 million-member gun lobby, looking for the same legal recognition as mainstream news organizations, says it has already hired its first reporter. NRANews.com was to start online broadcasts Friday.

    The NRA is taking the step to operate free of political spending limits, hoping to use unlimited donations known as soft money to focus on gun issues and candidates’ positions despite the law’s restrictions on soft money-financed political ads close to elections.

    “Someone needs to show the court and the politicians how absurd their speech gag on the American public is,” Wayne LaPierre, NRA executive vice president, told The Associated Press. “This is an act of defiance. But it’s also in 100 percent compliance with the law.”

    LaPierre said the NRA is taking several steps to become a “legitimate packager of news” like newspapers and TV networks, including hiring Cam Edwards, a conservative talk-show host from Oklahoma City.

    more at http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercuryn … 650.htm?1c

  • Anonymous

    How illogical. The whole issue is that someone is able to blast 30 rounds into a crowd without reloading at all. Oh and if they’re already doing that then I’m sure concealment is not an issue anymore. ALSO I’m pretty sure three 10 round magazine would be more shit to carry than one 30 round mag. and so on.

  • Knot

    The media “turns a madman into a hero for every potential deranged copycat out there,” he said, as quoted at CBS. “It’s sick, it’s wrong and the media out to be ashamed of themselves.”

    Well, there is that First Amendment issue protecting the press.

  • Anonymous

    They of course cut mental health service because health insurance companies didn’t want government to compete and of course nobody wanted to pay the tax cost of it. So right wing greed wins and and people die, news at eleven.
    So typical lack of common sense from the right, no gun controls because it will affect profits, no mental health service because it will affect profits and as for the costs, well, keep it a secret and that ‘er’ solves that problem in right wing public relations speak
    So right wing viewpoint profits are everything and people didn’t died if nobody hears about it.

  • Anonymous

    Boooooo NRA.

  • Anonymous

    “the suspect wouldn’t have gotten away with nearly as many hits”

    Bloody hell there was a crowd of people. Why does your reality consist of the ending scene from “Reservoir Dogs”?

    Or maybe “The Departed” is your idea of how it’s supposed to go?

    And HOW FASCINATING that you call murdered people “hits” Is this really how you think about people? It does explain your attitude: life is one big shoot-em-up video game.

  • Phil E. Drifter

    And HOW FASCINATING that you call murdered people “hits” Is this really how you think about people?

    Go re-read what I said, because that’s not at all what I said.

    Here, I’ll even repeat it for you:
    • just like in VTech/Columbine if more people were armed, the suspect wouldn’t have gotten away with nearly as many hits

    hits ≠ “murdered people” (in your own terminology)

    I know if i were there, I’d have shot him well before he got off his 5th or 6th round.

    For christ sake, Giffords even mentioned aloud to others that she felt threatened by Palin’s poster.

  • Phil E. Drifter

    Criminals don’t care about GUN LAWS
    GUFFAW, you are kidding right

    Find me a criminal that cares about gun laws. (Are you really that fucking stupid?)

    Go ahead, I’ll wait.

  • Anonymous

    I don’t know what the media had to do with it but I’m with the NRA on the government aspect of this: the federal government has repeatedly failed to control gun sales in this country, ironically and largely as a result of continuous lobbying by the NRA, who has repeatedly claimed that there should be no government regulation of gun sales and who had stubbornly resisted the closing of gun show loopholes.

  • Anonymous

    I blame all the people in Arizona who weren’t there that day with their guns to shoot the guy when he pulled his. Where were they? Why even be a concealed carry state if people are going to shun the law and not carry guns with them everywhere they go and shoot anyone who pulls a gun? It was their fault–the people who didn’t obey the words of John Lott and demonstrate that the more guns there are the safer people are. Didn’t they know that they ha a duty to Lott to get this guy?

  • Phil E. Drifter

    Easier to carry and conceal, I dunno about ‘faster to reload,’ but despite that, you’re talking about fractions of a second anyway. It doesn’t matter if he used 1 30-round clip or 3 10-round clips; he got as many kills as he did because no one else at the event was armed. (Yeah, I know, I heard about the one guy who ‘nearly shot another armed civilian’ [without ever drawing his weapon out of its holster]) but why was there no state security? (Probably because it would have ‘appeared too militaristic’ to some people.)

  • Phil E. Drifter

    Well we can thank Bush for 2 illegal wars to bleed the treasury dry, now, can’t we?

  • DriveBy

    I agree with the NRA. It is the government’s failure to curb the activities of Fox News and Hate Radio that led to this. Freedom of speech does not extend to screaming “FIRE!!!” in a crowed theater filled with armed and dangerous cowards – something that Fox News and Hate Radio do 24/7/365.

  • Anonymous

    these gun nuts don’t even try to make sense anymore. whatever. if americans want everyone armed to the teeth w/ high capacity ammo clips and high powered assault rifles and concealed weapons in bars, churches, and class rooms, well, what can you do? 15k gun deaths a year isn’t enough to convince “good citizens” to introduce some sanity into how we screen for gun purchases, etc, so the slaughter will continue, and folks will learn the very, very hard way, only when gun tragedy takes the life of someone that they love dearly. only then, will they change their minds, a day late and a dollar short. utter stupidity.

  • Anonymous

    it’s that bad old media, huh? guess the madmen copy cats are using slingshots.

  • Anonymous

    this nation is doomed. people are more and more ignorant, they are arming themselves up the wazoo, and you’ve got people w/ their fingers on a trigger that i wouldn’t trust to flip a burger w/ out effing it up. we are screwed.

  • Anonymous

    exactly, the dude bought his extended clips LEGALLY, meaning that if it was illegal to sell such clips, the asshat wouldn’t have been able to get off as many shots as he did, meaning (i’ll spell it out for you, you clod), that he wouldn’t have injured as many people. the dude was sick, and he was able to acquire his arsenal w/ no problems. i guess that doesn’t compute with you or the rest of the nra arseholes out there, does it.

  • Anonymous

    no one is talking about a criminal “caring” about gun laws. people are talking about sensible background checks to make sure that sick individuals can’t get their hands on guns. people are talking about insuring that it isn’t as easy to get a 30-bullet clip as easy as it is to get a dvd player. few people argue that guns shouldn’t be sold or owned by law-abiding citizens, only that there has to be sensible measures out there to protect the public. i for one, and last i checked, i’m a citizen, don’t want every jackhole walking around armed to the teeth in every public situation. are you so dense that you don’t recognize that is should be at least as hard as getting a drivers license to acquire a pistol that can kill? jesus.

  • Anonymous

    there’s your hard right republican state house for you! cut mental screening, mental services, and make it as easy as hell to get weapons to supposedly “protect” you when the shooting starts. the loons are running your state.

  • Hassan i Sabbah

    Shouldn’t that be the NGA? National Gun-nut Assoc.?

  • Hassan i Sabbah

    National Rectal Assoc.?

  • Hassan i Sabbah

    [This reply intentionally left blank. What's the point in arguing with an idiot?]

  • Hassan i Sabbah

    You mean the clause from the 2nd Amendment you folks like to surgically extract from the entire sentence? Have you ever actually read the 2nd Amendment? I didn’t think so.

  • Hassan i Sabbah

    Shouldn’t that be Phil E.Gun-nut?

  • cannotvote

    Guns are like printers and printer ink! Buying then gun is the easy part but you have to keep supplies up, and….. don’t forget the paper to print on!

  • Taleisin

    Q.Why has it taken the NRA so long to speak out about this tragedy?
    A. Because if LaPierre had sprouted this a month ago, he would have been shouted down.

    Of course, he is not going to blame guns or guns laws. He is doing what he is paid to do.

  • Jaimie11

    Taking disturbed individuals more seriously BEFORE they explode.

  • Anonymous

    An incident happened a few years ago. I don’t think it ever hit national news, if it did they aired it quick enough to be erased from the public’s memory. The inicident was there was a guy who was mentally off. He was invited to stay at a friends house. The house was practically a gun warehouse, yet all the guns are legally owned including an ak47. The guy with the mental problem took some guns went to a populated place and killed quite a number of people before he shot himself.

    The gun owner was interviewed on television. He said nothing about the people that died and nothing about the guy who took the guns. All he said was his guns were legally owned.

    I think I can see why this was kept under the rug. Gun owners who could care less about the lives that were lost but care more about the legal status of their guns doesn’t make a good public relation film for the NRA.

    The NRA doesn’t care about the lost of the human life all that matters to them is the legal status of their guns.

    They use the self defense argument as a trojan horse, just like Republicans use the abortion issue as a trojan horse. The rhetoric of both the NRA and Republicans have hidden agendas. In the case of the NRA they are a business, they recieve money. The money means more to them than the human life. Just like money means more to Republicans than human life.

    Don’t be fooled by NRA members and Republicans. They will Judas you in a second. They will spit on your loved ones who died as a consequence of the NRA’s agenda.

  • Jaimie11

    No bonehead, people without guns kill people too. Let’s ban people.

  • Jaimie11

    Just think of all the taxpayer resources that are spent of prosecuting illegal immigrants with criminal records – resources that could have been spent on mental health screening for the likes of Loughner.

    Another failure of the central government which is charged with protecting our borders and is absent without leave. Too busy I guess micromanaging the personal and private lives of individuals, prosecuting people for having bad thoughts.

  • Guest

    If Arizona had a decent mental health program, Jared Loughner, would have been an obvious subject when he acted weird at the Jr. College.

  • Jaimie11

    The First Amendment is meant to protect freedom of speech that exposes government corruption and malfeasance. The fact that the press is NOT doing that and prefers sensationalism and entertainment, provoking issues into two opposing factions for the purposes of covering the asses of the oligarchs, should not be used as an example of free speech, but of the failure of a free press to do its proper job in a free society.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_EZ4W5CDCIVXKIIKESYBN2EP6VE brian

    I literally have a 10,000 fold greater chance of dying in a car accident due to negligence (drunk driver, cell phone user, etc) than getting fatally shot at a political event. Some of you are using similar arguments that the govt uses to justify the TSA and their draconian measures.

  • Anonymous

    La Pierre is entirely correct about the fact that the wide publicity afforded cowards by the mass media makes these insane criminals into celebrities. Who would remember Mark Chapman if he hadn’t assassinated John Lennon? As American society values celebrity above all else the media does in a sense create these tragedies. Still who needs a high capacity automatic pistol other than security and law enforcement?

  • Jaimie11

    Guns and abortion are wedge issues. They are exploited in order to divide the people and thereby overcome any possible coalition of disparate groups who could otherwise be united against the corruption and criminality that are the support and effects of the singularly powerful War Party.

  • Anonymous

    Oh really you think La Pierre is entirely correct. I have a challenge for you and anyone here at Raw. Click on the link and read the story.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westroads_Mall_shooting

    1.Tell us how did the shooter get the guns.

    2.Tell us where in the story did the gun owners express their condolences.

    Why did the so called sensationlist media ignore 1 and 2 above.

    La Pierre works for the NRA and his job is to bullshit and he has you hooked on his bullshit which means he did his job.

    See my post below.

  • Anonymous

    I just finished reading all 51 posts and I see no solutions — only my side vs. your side!
    In the past I owned 4 rifles, 1 shotgun and 5 handguns — plus — I bought ammunition by the case and had thousands or rounds for each weapon. And I owned a house on 8 acres in a very rural foothill area where guns were an accepted part of life.
    Then I started thinking about the quality of life that I lived. Living in the forest and being almost self sufficient seemed to fit my perspective of a ‘good life’ — however, these incidences of mass murders and daily reports of shootings made me think very seriously about the future of America.
    I thought of moving to a ‘safer and saner’ country and started looking very seriously in 1995 at other countries and lived in a few for some time. I moved out of America in 1999. I moved to Russia – and before I get all the propaganda and misinformation that Americans are constantly fed about Russia – I have free medical, food is clean (no real factory poison) as it comes from the local farms, and in this 1.7 million population city that I live in — there have been only 2 real murders and 4 drug related murders since 2003.
    And those of you that will bitch about Russian gun control……… I can buy any rifle or shotgun that I would like. It is the same here, you must pass a background check — criminal and mental. And Russians keep much better records that the slip-shod American police ever thought of.
    Oh, as a passing thought — I am a life member of the NRA and their monthly propaganda editorials in their magazines are worse that any of you can imagine.

  • Anonymous

    The government failed? Surprise. Then, the government needs to enact more laws. As far as arguing against large capacity magazine clips? Their for convenience. After all, the average Joe just positively hates to have to reload his weapon three times instead of once. Lazy? Or too many beers?

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Thomas-Lee-Brown/1522418996 Thomas Lee Brown

    I too am appalled by the propaganda put out by the NRA: gun confiscation is right around the corner, any gun regulation is evil, Democrats hate the 2nd amendment, yada yada yada. When my membership runs out I’ll be gone, which is a shame. I tried explaining to an NRA guy on the phone that they’re alienating millions of Progressive gun owners, potential allies in keeping rational gun ownership safe and legal, but they ignored me.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Thomas-Lee-Brown/1522418996 Thomas Lee Brown

    Perhaps you missed the fact that there WAS a guy there with a gun. He got the safety off and ran toward the scene, where HE ALMOST MISTAKENLY SHOT THE GUY WHO DISARMED LOUGHNER.

    Here’s the problem, pinhead: any time we try to make it harder for the mentally unbalanced or criminals to get guns, without preventing the law-abiding citizen from having them, the NRA and simpletons like you claim we’re going to do the opposite: take guns away from the law-abiding and help the criminals.

    That’s what sucks, pal. The goddamn lies. The NRA lies, Beck lies, Limbaugh lies, Republican lies… we’re friggin’ sick of it.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_DFO26ZTHHBKLAS7STLD3JV3USY jjhuyzinga

    What do you expect from a loser like LaPierre? Guns attract the inadequate and the impotent…and women with meanness envy.

  • Anonymous

    Alice has a companion in wonderland. Wayne, you and your members are modern day velociraptors. The 3G (guns, god, gays) cult continues to march us to oblivion. So much darkness so little light.

  • Anonymous

    Remember, Saul David Alinsky (the most hated man by the tories) said, “organize, organize, organize.”

  • VJBinCT

    He didn’t say that at all. Read the comment again, please.

  • http://www.facebook.com/mdetrano Marc DeTrano

    “Regulation” is included in the context of the second amendment. Typical NRA hotheaded over-reaction here. Rather than working with the government to try to find solutions for the ridiculous rate of gun violence in the States, they pretend the problem does not exist, or can even be solved with more guns (wtf!?)

    We need a permit system that includes background checks that work and at least a cursory psychological review. Private owners should only be allowed to sell back to professional dealers, not to other individuals (and thus skip the checks). Changes like these will not violate the rights of people to own guns, and will help stem the flow of guns into criminal hands. The cost is only minor inconvenience for gun owners (although many of them seem so paranoid about this I actually wonder if they would pass the psychological exam).

  • http://twitter.com/btmfdrsheaven rebecca meritt

    And where would the copycats get a gun without the NRA spouting their right to do so? I guess if the media hadn’t reported the Tuscon tragedy it would be like it never happened and the NRA would go on as usual. Right to carry and the 2nd amendment didn’t stop Ruby Ridge from happening and the NRA didn’t stop it either and the NRA didn’t stop the tragedy in Tuscon,or Columbine or any of the other tragedies we’ve had.

  • cosliberal

    Oh the NRA, they never ever see the irony of their stupid comments. Yes, there were government failures that led to Tuscon, but all of those failures were guaranteed to happen by the ongoing lobbying, bullying and outright threats of the NRA and their totalitarian allies in Congress. Come to think of it, I have to agree with the NRA, there were government failures…..the failure of our government to do a damn thing about meaningful gun control in the face of fierce pressure from groups like the NRA.

  • enorceht

    from crooks and liars site — it works for me

    A Modest Proposal: What If We Required Mandatory Gun Insurance?
    January 14, 2011 11:00 AM
    By Susie Madrak

    http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/modest-proposal-what-if-we-required-m

  • RottenJohnny

    Yo, dipship: It was a nutcase who blew away people in Arizona, not the government. That he was a nut case and still was able to buy a gun is just plain wrong on any level.

  • Anonymous

    Always wondered – what is the NRAs policy on owning a tank?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    You’re not shooting if you’re reloading a clip.. and like the guy that came out of the store with his gun drawn, more people would have time to TAKE YOU DOWN..

    So, yes.. smaller clips make it much less convenient to kill quickly.. which I believe is the POINT here.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    Careful when tossing that “stupid” label about. Your first post has bad math (2/3s less deaths, not 1/3 less.. he’d only have been able to shoot at most 1/3 the bullets, so only 1/3 of the casualties).

    And as noted, you’re failing to account for the TIME it takes to change clips (non-pros will take a long time compared to cops/military with extensive training.. of course, we’re still presuming your typical “loose cannon” nut-job who’s not overly familiar with a weapon). The crowd jumped him once he stopped shooting.. that implies he would have been jumped after 10 shots instead of 30 had he had a smaller clip.

    But I agree, sidetracking to bazookas and tanks doesn’t help.. but in all fairness, he was trying to get his head around your totally broken logic. Saying “people will use guns anyway!” is just as off point as tanks.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    He was jumped once his bullets were spent.. had it been a smaller clip he’d have been jumped sooner (most likely). And once bullets were flying, every fraction of a second people have to scramble is precious, so making a shooter waste a few to reload and re-aim could save a life or two as well.

    There is no logical defense or position that can deflect from proposing a 10 round limit for handgun sales.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_NXCMSD27V46Y6BR63PWI6VC7UY Les

    this guy’s on crack. Kind of hoping that’s so, because if not he’s one dumb muther-fucker.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    Actually, we ban all those activities that kill people (for the most part). That means, following suit, banning guns would be the proposition.

    yet, the problem isn’t guns, or cars, or knives, or whatever.. it’s a broken society that causes so much dysfunction and consternation that is the root of the problem. Poverty is violence, and we heap it on near 1/3 of our society.

  • Wyrdless

    “”"If Tucson told us anything, it told us this: government failed,” Wayne LaPierre said in a speech to the Conservative Political Action Conference”"

    Really, I though it was Loghner who failed by committing a hideous crime.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    The amount spent on prosecuting “illegal immigrant criminals” is nothing compared to two illegal invasion of foreign countries. Not to mention the overloaded “justice system” that puts almost 1/2 of it’s resources prosecuting non-violent cannabis “criminals”. Legalize drugs (at least cannabis) and you save a few billion a year right there.

  • Anonymous

    Are you so stupid and insecure you have to cling to your guns? I don’t understand the fascination with guns, but like with all things dangerous there needs to be guidelines because human beings just can’t be trusted to always do the right thing. I don’t have a problem with guns. I have a problem with irresponsible human beings! I have a problem with innocent beings, whether they be human or animal, being maimed and killed because of mentally challenge human beings. If people want to shoot join the military. Guns may serve a purpose but they should be regulated and kept out of the hands of degenerates and ego fragile people who feel they have to prove themselves by killing something. It would be nice to think the human race has evolved more than it has, but it hasn’t. I agree drinking while driving is terrible, my brother was killed by a drunk driver. Would it be wiser then to arm the drunk driver too? I understand guns are very important part of some peoples lives and people like you cling to them for some reason would it be better to arm to the hilt people high on drugs? Would that make it better? Or is it better to arm teenagers sticking up the nearest quick stop? When it comes to guns the gun proponents seem to lose their minds. They seem to exist in the wild west and feel threatened just going to the mailbox. I don’t understand why people feel so threatened all the time in their everyday life. There are different ways for people to harm others and all we can do is regulate as best we can, because some human beings just have a propensity for violence . The nra is a very large lobbying group. They don’t care who gets hurt by their arms. They only want to sell as many as possible. I have complete disdain for them as they do not care how many suffer because of their products, but how many they can sell. Their greed clouds their vision and their conscience. There is no reason some one other than police or military need to arm themselves with ak 47′s.

    When the Constitution was written guns were a necessary tool of survival in every day life. They didn’t have grocery stores etc. We have come along way from the pioneer days and our existence isn’t dependent upon guns in our everyday life anymore.

  • Anonymous

    Depending on where you live, you may experience some danger if you really speak out.
    I can go to the skeet club just out of the city and shoot all day and then enjoy a sauna before returning safely home.
    And if you are a hunter, about 90% of Russia is forest and hunting is perfectly legal here. And the best part – no license and no one goes bananas and shoots everything. The hunters will shoot only what they need.

  • enorceht

    solution
    from crooks and liars site — it works for me

    A Modest Proposal: What If We Required Mandatory Gun Insurance?
    January 14, 2011 11:00 AM
    By Susie Madrak

    http://crooksandliars.com/susi

  • Phil E. Drifter

    Agreed. I’ve stated my case, I have nothing left to say. In fact, I did mention that there was another sensationalistic story hosted here at RS about how someone ‘almost shot’ another person, without ever taking his gun out of its holster.

    Thomas Lee Brown [Moderator] :
    the NRA and simpletons like you…
    Here’s the problem, pinhead
    Flattery will get you nowhere. It’s the surest way to lose an argument.

    mannymanny:
    no one is talking about a criminal “caring” about gun laws.
    RS needs to re-implement preventing people from editing their posts after someone replies to them, because someone had posted “criminals don’t care about gun laws? Who are you tryin’ to fool”

    Perhaps you missed the fact that there WAS a guy there with a gun. He got the safety off and ran toward the scene, where HE ALMOST MISTAKENLY SHOT THE GUY WHO DISARMED LOUGHNER. No, in fact I’m sure I mentioned that.

    ps: it was a wounded woman who knocked the full clip out of his hand when Loughner went to reload.

    The sad fact is, this event happened as a result of living in a (somewhat) free society.

    Personally, I’m holding his parents responsible. If anyone else had done any background research on him, you’d have found out that his father was unemployed for a long period where he never left the house and I suspect his father has the same mental illness as the gunman. (Edit: Oh and his dad yelled at some neighbors for putting trash out that stunk.)

    Manny… I don’t live in AZ. All I know is that this kid should have had a red flag on his file considering he was suspended from college until he received counseling, but he didn’t.

  • Anonymous

    And make it $10K per year/per gun. That should cut into the gun nuts smoking budget enough to make them get their priorities straight.

  • Anonymous

    This asswad’s defense to “”These clowns want to ban magazines”, is “Are you kidding me?”

    Well, you can’t beat that logic. I’m convinced!

    OTOH, perhaps he was thinking of Mad or Reader’s Digest. Then his response would be appropriate.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Bob-Zentrails/100001475536421 Bob Zentrails

    How come nobody asks, “What would Egypt have been like if everyone would have owned guns?”

    Would they have fought tyranny or would it have been a bloody mess?
    I say it would have been a bloody mess, with nothing good coming out of it.

    Guns don’t kill people, but they allow (encourage?) people to make bloody messes.

  • Anonymous

    enorceht -

    Did you know that the NRA has a full-on gun registration/insurance program. I often thought that IF there ever was a government gun confiscation – then the NRA files would have almost every gun ever!
    I am sorry, but that link will not open for me. Some web sites refuse to allow Russian ISPs access. America has always had a tiered and restrictive code to access the internet.

  • Anonymous

    Good post, except john hinckley tried to assassinate Reagan. He was in jail long before
    John Lennon’s shooting.

  • Phil E. Drifter

    Nope, never read the Bill of Rights, what’s that? I did read the manual for my handgun though.

  • Phil E. Drifter

    I’d really like to know why there was no local or state security at this event. But the whole point of the “Congress in you Corner” events was to present politicians out in the open in public representing they were another member of the public.

  • Anonymous

    Tuscon happened because government failed?
    The state of the union where more people would be likely to be armed than anywhere else puts to rest the argument that if more people were armed less violence would happen.
    People don’t kill people, people with mental illness and 31-clip semi-automatic weapons in the middle of a crowd kill people. For example.

  • enorceht

    i tried the link and it didn’t seem to work for me either (i posted the same comment above and that link worked for me) so I thought i would copy the full link and repaste again here

    http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/modest-proposal-what-if-we-required-m

    or you could try to search for “crooks and liars” website then search their website for “gun insurance”

  • Anonymous

    C’mon, obvious typo… meant to say 1/3 the amount.

    And the fact that many people will die with a smaller clip is valid. It doesn’t make a difference to me because if one person dies it’s bad. I’m just saying concentrate on rules that will reduce handgun attacks, not rules that will reduce how many can be killed per handgun attack. The law just puts forth a false sense of security.

  • Anonymous

    look at my first post, I did name some.

  • GunTotingLib

    None of the common sense solutions you suggested are supported by the NRA

  • Anonymous

    Thank you for the re-posting – that site opened this time. the kid had a good idea, but the NRA beat him to it. I do not believe for a minute that the NRA’s insurance program has such broad coverage though.

  • GunTotingLib

    I believe the feeling is that large capacity clips are only advantageous for offense , that for defense standard capacity clips work fine. I carry a 1911, holds 7 and 1 up the tube. If I need to defend my self against 1 or 2 or even 3 attackers, they will lose. But If I want to slaughter dozens fast then I would go with high capacity clips.

    You are right that other things need to be done, but limiting High Cap clips could help reduce mass shooting deaths. But good Luck trying to get anything past the NRA that would slow down or limit gun sales to anyone. It is my position that the NRA is truly about the RIGHT TO BUY AND SELL GUNS and not the right to own. Gun manufactures and sellers are the NRA’s sugar daddys..

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    And that really is the core issue. Most people aren’t competent enough or cautious enough to “really know” what’s going on, there’s a reason we have “due process” and a trial.. In this particular case, it was one guy in a crowd with hundreds (potentially) looking on and if 10 people “nearish” him saw him firing into the crowd, it’s “possible” they might have been able to take him out.. it’s also possible they might have missed and shot across into the crowd as well..

    But what happens if 3 buddies are out at night, in a fairly secluded area.. and decide to kill someone (they know he has a gun) for entertainment.. the 3 guys just say “man, he pulled his gun and was going to shoot at some people through a window, so we HAD to take him down!”.. Yeah, the wild west is romantic on TV and the big screen, but it was a miserable place to live for 99% of the population.

    Quite frankly, I don’t want to be shot for being a hero, nor do I want to be killed for sport by thugs who will lie and get away with murder.

  • GunTotingLib

    Most mass shooters are armatures and not trained, practiced or skilled to reload a gun quickly. A skilled shooter would prefer standard mags as they are lighter, and do not adversely effect the balance of the firearm allow better accuracy.And they could reload in mere seconds. A insane shooter just wants to spray rounds.

  • GunTotingLib

    I guess some of us are so naive that we think we should be safe in a Safeway shopping center parking lot in the middle of the day. That would surely be a great country to live in.

  • GunTotingLib

    “fractions of a second” if you are a skilled gunman and not just a insane shooter with a gun he bought several weeks ago.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    And, of course, it’s for-profit corporations that, then, are failing the public. Yet, we’re not allowed to point out such facts to the pro-corporation crowd.

    The press was intentionally shifted to “sensationalism” to generate more profits. The Press, the First Amendment, was intentionally hijacked by the ruling elite to make money, not serve the public. The right-wing mindset is using the Constitution as a shield while they abuse the public, and at the same time they are telling the public that they have no right to assert their collective will as the Constitution intended.

    When the means of production only benefit the few the most, they will use their power to abuse the public. The cure, of course, is for the public to benefit the most from the means of production. By definition, that’s Socialism (yet the right-wing keeps conflating that with welfare state and ‘wanting something for nothing’). If you want to start fixing our society, you start by telling the few they no longer get to own everything… they have failed to ensure the general welfare, and we have a natural right to the stability and peace that comes with ensuring the general welfare is adequately attended (transit, energy, food, water, health, etc).

  • Phil E. Drifter

    That’s fine, we can call you ‘Bends-over ever the victim, never the hero’

  • Phil E. Drifter

    Yeah the point you’re missing is there was a political rally in the parking lot at the time.

    Had there been no “Congress in your Corner” event happening, I’m sure everyone in the parking lot would have been safe, or at the least, not as packed together like sardines, where, even if you miss your target, you’re still likely to hit someone else behind them.

    Seriously… shouldn’t security always be at political rallies, of every sort?

  • GunTotingLib

    “new laws to cut into their profits!”… I believe that is the truth. I believe the NRA’s number one goal is to protect the right to buy and sell guns , before they are for the right of Americans to own guns. Gun manufactures and dealers are their sugar daddys, and they convince gun owners to come along for the ride, even though their first allegiance is to their corporate masters.. Just like the republican party is owned by the wealthy and the corporations and they convince some average Americans to come along for the ride, even though it’s against their best intrests.

  • Phil E. Drifter

    Here’s a logical defense: some guns holds 15 rounds in the standard clip.

    http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/attachments/powder-keg/15d1020107724-smith-wesson-459-9mm-5906-vbf2382.jpg

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    The NRA is part of the right-wing fear-mongering mind set. In fact, they are the kinds of people you generally do NOT want owning guns as they demonstrate with their perpetual paranoia and violent rhetoric.

  • GunTotingLib

    I would have taken a shot at the killer also, but I am not sure that putting more guns under the coats of untrained, unskilled shooters in crowds is really a good solution. But I do agree with much of what you say.

  • Anonymous

    never said they were or even would ever be supported by them. But I bet the NRA would support a non-governmental agency for registration

  • GunTotingLib

    Every tom, dick and haji in Iraq had an AK47 and an RPG and we see how that worked for us. 10 years of death, destruction and civil war.
    And now we turned a secular natural enemy of Iran into a Muslim fundamentalist natural ally to Iran. Well done.

  • Anonymous

    agreed on all points. I just think that reducing the amount of rounds in a clip gives some sort of false sense of security when something else should be done that could be more effective. But then again, it is Arizona… they’re all about putting up right-winged laws that really accomplish nothing substantial.

  • Anonymous

    LaPierre doesn’t care about anything except filling the coffers of the NRA, then use that money to back politicians who tow their line. I left the NRA a long time ago.

  • GunTotingLib

    “bet the NRA would support a non-governmental agency for registration”….I am home today because there was no work today, but you are obviously at home doing drugs if you really believe the statement you just made….LOL.
    The NRA would NEVER support any gun registration. Their first arugmnet would be …what if the government confiscated (hacked/search warrant/claimed national secured need/ect) the registration data base.

  • GunTotingLib

    We seem to be of similar political stripe. And there would be many things that should be done. But I don’t object to High cap mag bans because although it would do little or any good, I don’t think it would do any harm.

  • GunTotingLib

    Maybe so, it is just so sad that our country has degraded to the point where a congresswoman can’t talk to her constituents with out armed guards.

  • Anonymous

    I meant instead of a government run registration, duh!

  • Jaimie11

    Do I get to opt out of your vision of how the world should be? Because I am not interested in the level of slavery that requires to see to it everyone is taken care of. And I certainly don’t trust this government to manage it with positive ethical principles at heart.

    Not every corporation is BAD just by virtue of being a corporation. And I do not for one moment believe that the problems we face are going to be adequately answered by either/or responses. In fact, I believe your insistence on your version of good government will end up as fodder for the violence the oligarchs would love to see. All they need in that excuse to kill us.

  • WitsEnd66

    I have a news flash for moldy Wayne LaPierre: Your organization’s biggest argument for 2nd amendment rights has been proven wrong by the people of Egypt in the last 18 days. We don’t need guns to protect us from tyranny. If your membership is stupid enough to believe that having guns and equally pit them against the most powerful military in the world, they are too stupid to be allowed to buy a gun. I’m going to celebrate now, with the people of Egyps, that they overcame a dictator without having to fire a shot. Have a nice day.

  • Jaimie11

    You think I don’t know that. Still prosecuting illegal immigrants who pose threats to American citizens in Arizona eats up state monies that could be better used..

  • Anonymous

    i think that the 2nd amendment REALLY means that you can make ANYTHING which kills…….?
    NRA would be out of work………………..r i g h t………………….

  • Anonymous

    You think security would have reacted in 15 seconds?

    No civilian needs an assault rifle and no civilian needs more than 6 bullets.

    And before the NRA corrupted Congress passed a law saying the CDC couldn’t investigate gun crimes studies proved that owning a handgun makes you and your loved ones less safe.

  • Anonymous

    cite references please.
    Plus, what you gun nuts never take into account is that cars are useful, and a lot more people have cars and people spend a lot more time using their cars than shooting their guns. Per hour of use, your statistic, even if accurate, goes poof.

  • Anonymous

    I am pro-gun but the NRA is just a trade group front for the arms manufacturing association

  • Anonymous

    Blame should go where it belongs. If a man builds a house do we give all of the credit to the tools, I mean the hammer was a necessary player, right? Except, the hammers saws and other tools need the man to make them work. A gun shoots nothing without the human to pull it’s trigger. Why does such simple logic elude some folks? And don’t get hung up on the gun part you may substitute knife, club, tire iron etc. all of which are common weapons for human killing.

  • Anonymous

    Somebody needs to remind this idiot we are not in Dodge City of the old west.Ironic that the media gets part of the blame-for reporting the news??? I guess when the next Columbine type slaughter occurs the news media needs to concentrate on what’s really important:Lindsey Lohan’s latest court visits or the new Lady Gaga album.

  • Anonymous

    This guy’s a walking contradiction.

  • GunTotingLib

    Still don’t think they would support it.

  • Guest

    What a Dick. You ban high-cap mags and it’ll force the price up. And I’ll have to buy more 10 round magazines. Gun Control is statistically absurd even if you don’t believe in the second amendment.

  • Guest

    yes then the people that statistically need guns to reduce crime and protect themselves will be the least capable of buying them. Read John Lott’s “More Guns: Less Crime” a fantastic and eye-opening read although a bit dry because of it’s factual format – now in it’s 3rd edition.

  • Guest

    Also, gun control doesn’t reduce crime… especially violent crime. People having non-discretionary concealed handguns do though… And the more people that carry them the more the crime rate for rape, murder and robbery go down. This is especially true in urban areas and is more pronounced when women carry guns. Read Dr. John Lott’s More Guns: Less Crime

  • Anonymous

    I agree it’s a government failure, if you define that as failing to limit high capacity magazines, not reinstating the ban on (semi) automatic assault weapons, not requiring background checks at gun shows and failing to provide a reasonable limit on the number of guns purchased at one time. As for blaming the media for reporting the news the real instigators of whacko gun violence are those who propose 2nd amendment solutions if elections don’t go their way, saying they need to “take out” political opponents and other extremist comments aimed at the unstable.

  • Guest

    Only other citizens can stop tragedies like the ones you mentioned (excepting Ruby Ridge which is completely unrelated). The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. There are good reasons for this too statistically – I’ll recommend it again “More Guns: Less Crime” by John Lott Jr.

  • Guest

    Hell no we don’t need any of that. I probably have to tell you because you probably don’t own any guns – that most of what you’re asking for already exists with the exception of a psych test. So you’re saying then perhaps we should only be allowed our right to free speech if we see a certified bureaucrat first and are credited with being competent to speak freely. If you take all rights away from people that MAY act criminally in the future – then you must take away all rights from everyone. Read John Lott’s book “More Guns: Less Crime”

  • Anonymous

    Pretty hard to kill 18 people with a tire iron.

  • Guest

    yeah.. or not… actually every woman that carries a gun reduces the number of rapes 3 or 4 fold for women in the same community. And men that own and carry guns have girlfriends and wives and children from those relationships. You need to look into gun laws and reflect on the load of bull you believe for no apparent reason.

  • Guest

    Then you have to buy more magazines… it’s stupid. Why have ten magazines when you can just buy 6. If my firearms only could hold 10 rounds then the price on high-cap mags would go up and people would buy more “low-capacity” (does anyone even say that) magazines to make up the difference. But I think you’re right… ever had to load 200 rounds into a single stack sub-compact at the range… you’re fingers hurt. Get a Glock.

  • Guest

    So your solution is to move to Russia? Good one. American’s just buy more guns learn how to use them and educate your children about safety. That’s what you should do.

  • Guest

    That’s right! if we had more bureaucrats throwing people who acted weird in college into the mental health system – those people wouldn’t have died! Sweet idea.

  • Guest

    Gun owners care about themselves and their families. They also care about all of you non-gun owners too for the most part. It’s our right – It’s our responsibility AND it has the added benefit of reducing violent crimes even for those of you who don’t believe in the second amendment.

  • Guest

    You’re not very well read on guns or crime. I think you should buy a gun. That would fix your ridiculous notions about them. Then you’d have to learn about them, the maintenance, responsibility, laws etc. You’d also meet lots and lots of other evil gun owners. After that you will be embarrassed by your previous remarks.

  • Anonymous

    Again, “with” a tire iron, the human chose a more effective tool. An F350 at ramming speed could have done the job as well (provided it had a driver). My point was that it is the batshit crazy human that does the killing, taking away one tool will not stop what started millions of years before gun powder…..

  • Anonymous

    Wayne LaPierre should be banned along with 31 round magazines. He’s a piece of shit and his logic sucks so bad that all but the dumbest morons can see through it. The dumbest are the Fox News aficionados of course and they eat that shit up. Morons with a superiority complex think all others are misguided and stupid. For proof go to any of the Fox Nation blogs.

  • Anonymous

    yup, banning high capacity clips with the ability to spit out 30 to 50 rounds, we NEED then to hunt,
    assault rifles? you never know when a herb of dangerous deer (or squirrels) will appear…
    THE F’ING NRA OWNS THE CONGRESS, don’t let them think for YOU !

  • Anonymous

    hopefully a alert citizen will tackle you before you reload to kill more …
    I live in Maine, I hunt, I have NEVER needed an extended clip to kill an animal.. If you do, stop hunting you are a menace…

  • http://www.lebanondemocrats.com/ SgtCedar

    Nuclear weapons don’t kill people; the person that pushes the button kills people. So, everyone has the right to own their own nuclear bomb.

    Has LaPierre every read the Second Amendment he loves so much? “A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.” Note the only reason given for the right to bear arms is “A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State….” The well regulated militia is the National Guard in which I proudly served for 13 years.

  • Anonymous

    Thank you. I was in a hurry. Mea culpa. Abject apologies.

  • Anonymous

    Failure I tell you! The nut failed to kill more people because of a small magazine. Just think if he had a 50 round magazine.

    I am trying to think like a Foxbot con, but it isn’t working. If you keep your head up your ass long enough, it begins to stink and you can’t breathe.

  • Anonymous

    Sorry Wayne…but there will be the blood of children on your tombstone.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_USTC5E6P4FBMQRHXC2DBD2TOJE Jim C

    I’m not aware of much game you hunt with a 9mm either . But perhaps we could talk ethananaim into loading up a bunch of his 30 round clips and going after a grizzly or a moose to show us how it’s done . I can’t wait for the Utube on that one .

  • Robert Shaftoe

    Wait NRA, you can’t have it both ways. You say government failed, but your cronies in the GOP have been trying to drown that same government in a bath tub. Maybe you should point your loaded words at the Republicans who have been putting a stranglehold on the government you say failed you.

    Besides, I thought the NRA types didn’t think society needed government. How can something you don’t want in your lives FAIL you?????

    Don’t get me wrong, I’m a Liberal and I LOVE my 2nd Amendment. I too believe gun control is about hitting your target. Therefore I would never need to argue for the sake of owning a large clip, or even an assault rifle because even ten rounds is plenty when you can actually shoot.

  • Anonymous

    Yet the Supreme Court has repeatedly affirmed that the phrase “the People” refers to individual citizens. *

    While I am a firm supporter of the second amendment and the rights of individual citizens to possess firearms, I believe that firearms should be registered and owners should be licensed following competence tests-Just like a driver’s license.

    I see no reason for high-capacity magazines such as the one Loughner used for any civil reason, including use by police officers. While some police officers are extremely competent firearms users; the majority can’t hit anything even with the 20 round magazines commonly carried: They close their eyes and spray bullets in the general direction of their target.

    As for the National Guard, it is nothing like the citizen militias of the revolutionary period. They have been used as anti-labor assassins & enforcers by corrupt State governments more than once in our history. Same with the racist loons who call themselves “militias” nowadays.

    *(States Right supporters and anti-gun activists both like to cite the SCOTUS ruling in Cruickshank as an conflicting example, a ruling which essentially allowed the southern states to criminalize the possession of firearms by Black citizens. The People apparently didn’t include Blacks)

    I believe that there is a reason that only two countries have maintained a history of democratic participation in government for 2 centuries or more. Switzerland and the U.S.A. Both allow private firearm possession by its citizens.

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/3ETFGMQ3B7VD4AAMILBBEVMCWE JasonA

    Simple solution: Confiscate ALL guns. Only the police and military need them. Mere possession of a gun should mandate life in prison with no parole. And HARD time at that. Wayne LaPierre should be hung and the NRA disbanded for the criminal organization it is. Tens of thousands die in this country every year for nothing. Please do not give me the BS propaganda crap answer of: guns dont kill people…blah, blah, blah. Empty, stupid logic and words.

  • http://www.lebanondemocrats.com/ SgtCedar

    I too support the Second Amendment, with reasonable restrictions. Most mentally ill people should not have access to weapons, at least not fire arms.

    Despite 16 years in the military I have never even requested a permit to own any fire arm. The only fire arm I ever owned was an old shotgun which I got from my grandfather. I never actually fired it and it probably would not have been fire-able without some major work by a gunsmith. My nephew now owns it.

    As for Switzerland, I just read they are passing a law that all government issued weapons now kept at home must be turned into a government arsenal. I do not know if it passed yet but unlike this country it is not controversial.

  • http://www.lebanondemocrats.com/ SgtCedar

    That is like when I was on active duty during Desert Storm. I spent some time at Fort Carson. They were having a court martial trial of some soldiers who shot a deer using the .50 cal machine gun on an M-1 tank. If you have ever fired a .50 caliber machine gun, I have, you can guess how much deer there was left.

  • http://www.lebanondemocrats.com/ SgtCedar

    How many shooters have been taken down while they reloaded their weapon? The more times they have to reload the more times to take them down.

  • http://www.lebanondemocrats.com/ SgtCedar

    Sorry but anyone who goes after a grizzly with only a 9mm pistol …. Well, let’s just leave it there.

  • frigar

    Every year I buy a hunting license the NRA load up my mail box with ap[plications for membership and requests for donations. They just want my money. Greedy bastyards.

  • http://www.lebanondemocrats.com/ SgtCedar

    Does anyone believe if the Army had opened fire on the people in that square with M-1 tanks, as they were reportedly ordered by Mubarak, that there would have been anyone alive to walk out. The military from the top generals to the commanders of the tanks refused to follow that order.

    If you ever knew anything about military law, I taught it to troops for 13 years, that was an order which the UCMJ says can legally be disobeyed. It was an illegal order. Just because a President gives an order does not automatically mean it is legal.

  • frigar

    As my simple way of protesting these solicitations, I fill their postage willbe paid envelopes with duct tape holding flat pieces of lead or large heavy washers. I have got nearly 1 lb in their business size envelope. I hope they have to pay the excess postage due. Just a small protest.

  • http://www.lebanondemocrats.com/ SgtCedar

    Is “More Guns: Less Crime” by John Lott Jr. your only source?

  • ToyotaBedZRock

    You can’t fight extremists by being equally as extreme.

  • http://www.lebanondemocrats.com/ SgtCedar

    What is the connection between free speech and the absolute, unrestricted right to own any weapon you want? When was the last time someone was killed by anyone exercising their right to free speech?

    Again, John Lott’s book “More Guns: Less Crime” seems to be your answer to any question.

  • WitsEnd66

    That was my point.  The people were unarmed and took down a dictator, they were
    willing to take their chances unarmed against the military.  Had the people
    protesting been armed and fired on the military, Mubarak’s order to fire would
    not have been an illegal order.  There is nol doubt in my mind that that had it
    been here with our citizens being armed, our military wouldn’t hesitate or
    fire.  I remember Kent State when the National Guard were ordered by the
    governor to fire on students who were unarmed.  The Egyptian military didn’t
    fire because the protestors weren’t armed.

    ________________________________

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/3ETFGMQ3B7VD4AAMILBBEVMCWE JasonA

    There are many advanced countries which prohibit civilian ownership of guns…successfully I might add.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_UCUTJ7W5EZJSAVR5Q6Z2PXU3KI Laurie Kidd

    The more firearms there are in the community, the greater the risk of death by shooting. Simple as that

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_UCUTJ7W5EZJSAVR5Q6Z2PXU3KI Laurie Kidd

    The more firearms in the community, the greater the risk of death by shooting. Simple as that really

  • Anonymous

    ethananaim -

    Your idea about education and training is great. However, I know that Americans do not do this and more than likely never will.
    My solution? No, it was my choice and after these few years, I think a correct choice. When America becomes the country that I once knew, then I may return.
    You see, ethananaim, when I worked, my job took me to many different countries and I saw and learned how the rest of the world lived. And I saw that they lived in peace and harmony with each other — only our support of their dictators caused any problems. And now you see that ‘our dictators’ are not doing so well….

  • Anonymous

    Interesting comments.
    I am a life member of the NRA. I vote for directors who represent me, not manufacturers.
    I and the evidence strongly support the concept that an armed citizen makes the community safer.
    The last law regulating high capacity magazines did nothing but outlaw a lot of .22 rimfire guns and create an expensive black market in 20 round mags.
    The 15k dead each year has be static for many years. Accidental shooting go down with training. Intentional shootings go down when the shooter knows that death from return fire is imminent.
    England is now outlawing steakknives with points and glass beer glasses.
    I’ll keep my gun.

  • Anonymous

    It’s sad that old men, such as this St.Pierre critter, who no longer “get it up” genuflect before “THE GUN!” The bullet, in a magazine or not, is always ready to shoot its load into the ever ready vaginal breech! No need of Viagra when fulminate of mercury stands ready! No matter that N.R.A. members span the gamut from “Beach Ball” t-shirts to peripatetic skeletons: Roy Rogers, Charlton Heston, etc. they all depend on the ” Gunner Hoff fired it of” ditty of childhood.

    Brown Bess

  • Anonymous

    The voters of Switzerland rejected the proposed law.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12441834

    No controversy.

  • Anonymous

    Isn’t it amazing, NRA and Gun control fighters—-how for all your rants about how necessary guns are for some kind of ‘militia to keep government in line”—-that Egypt ran 18 days of peaceful protests with no guns, no weapons, no bombs, and pulled off a coup !!!!!

    So I would remind you all to take a lesson from them—-that guns are not necessary at all—-merely a consensus amongst citizens that you are not going to take it anymore !!!

    It is time for REAL men, REAL Americans to understand where weapons fit into the wide scheme of our lives.

    The NRA is nothing more than a marketing arm of the Gun industry, and they will fight controls and sales to criminals and nuts to the end !

  • Anonymous

    I and the evidence strongly support the concept that an armed citizen makes the community safer.

    Well that says it all folks. Tucson is safer than they think.

  • lyris

    Oh yes the NRA now there’s a group of normal people.

  • lyris

    …and paranoia is normal.

  • Anonymous

    Just like guns don’t kill people, guns don’t save lives either.

    Don’t be an extreme moron.

  • Anonymous

    If Cheney gets his way, we will.

  • Anonymous

    Well, Switzerland almost needed guns when bu$h was going to pay a recent visit.

  • Anonymous

    NO! Especially when its out of control.

  • Anonymous

    If you are not going to pull the trigger, why own a gun?

  • Anonymous

    Its a convenience thing. Americans are lazy, and love their conveniences.

  • Anonymous

    Another crazy buncha far Right nutjobs defending big time rich gunmakers against citizens.
    Where do you think the Mexican drug cartels get their munitions? Japan?

  • Anonymous

    They tax everything else, why don’t they tax bullets like they do cigs?

  • lyris

    I would like to know why we don’t have mentally sound people running things? Listening to those over sized Amygdalas (uh-mig-duh-luh) idiots one would think they had illegal aliens under their beds or hidden in their closets.

  • lyris

    I disagree with you at the end peter. It’s time to put a stop with the paranoids who have a problem registration with our state and federal government.

    I suggest you and the rest of the gun totting over sized Amygdalas (uh-mig-duh-luh) get professional help on your mental problems before more of the rest of us get killed and maimed.

  • lyris

    But then those clowns would find a way to blame the liberals if their love ones were killed.

    All I know is that I’m staying out of AZ.

  • lyris

    I am alive today because my ex husband had to give up his guns thanks to a wonderful judge who made him.

    Months later my ex did try to strangle me to death, but fortunately he was clueless as to how hard it really is to strangle another adult, so I survived.

    Guns do not belong in the hands of the paranoia.

  • lyris

    That’s not true. Get your facts straight before you make an irresponsible post like that.

  • lyris

    Get a grip on reality chris.

  • lyris

    Apparently now there will be.

  • Anonymous

    You’re absolutely right… so lowering the amount of bullets in a clip wouldn’t matter in your case. We need effective legislation instead of something that really does nothing.

  • lyris

    Because it’s Arizona a red state with a governor who most likely has some form of dementia, as well as at least one of their senators, that’s why.

  • Anonymous

    WHAT ARE YOU TALIKING ABOUT!!! I said there should be registration! You’re letting your anger cloud your vision! Read what I said… In your case, this legislation would be worthless. In fact, this legislation would make it easier for your ex to get a gun!!! Good lord woman… you should prolly think before you write something down. The government would still be able to get at information about weapons through proper channels.

  • Anonymous

    If your not going to discharge it, why own a fire extinguisher?

  • Anonymous

    Correct, It’s harder to hit the hole with a longer mag

  • Anonymous

    WE “stole ” this country with the use of one shot guns, and killed a shitload of people while doing it…….

  • Anonymous

    My point exactly!

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5QR7LWWOG7YD64W52TBUQ3RDEM Teddy

    You know, it’s really interesting, I have noticed an interesting thing about criminals: THEY DON’T OBEY LAWS, THEY BREAK THEM! So, if you set up more laws, then, you just give them more laws to break. And at the same time, as a bonus, you turn people who believe in freedom and liberty into criminals. Any law that violates a right, which is afforded to all Americans in the Constitution or Bill of Rights, is an invalid one; and, those who uphold it are criminals. And they are also hypocrites; but, we won’t get into that discussion here.

    http://weeklyreflectionsofchrist.blogspot.com/
    http://www.facebook.com/teddyhcraig

  • Anonymous

    There is a name for places where only the police & military have guns.

    They are called Police States.

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