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‘War criminal!’: Ron Paul backers crash Cheney-Rumsfeld reunion

By Daniel Tencer
Thursday, February 10, 2011 18:41 EDT
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Supporters of libertarian Republican Ron Paul shouted down former Vice President Dick Cheney at a conservative conference Thursday, in a sign of a growing foreign policy rift on the American right.

Cheney had appeared on the first day of the 2011 Conservative Political Action Conference to introduce Donald Rumsfeld, the former Bush-era defense secretary who was scheduled to receive this year’s “Defender of the Constitution Award.”

That didn’t sit well with “Team Paul,” supporters of Rep. Ron Paul who have long called for an end to the US’s foreign wars.

“Where’s bin Laden?” one heckler shouted as Cheney stood at the podium to introduce Rumsfeld.

“War criminal!” another shouted out, prompting a heated reaction from the crowd.

The specter of a Republican vice president being called a “war criminal” at a conservative conference was so unexpected that it prompted TalkingPointsMemo’s Evan McMorris-Santoro to describe it as “what a Cheney-Rumsfeld hug at the Netroots Nation convention might look like.”

“Uh, Defender of the Constitution?” activist Justin Bradfield told McMorris-Santoro. “Let’s see: he expanded the Defense Department more than pretty much any other defense secretary and he enforced the Patriot Act.”

Reporting from the Washington, DC, event, McMorris-Santoro estimated that the number of libertarian Paul supporters had grown from previous years, an assertion backed by Bradfield, who suggested that “half” the attendees were libertarians like himself.

Rumsfeld’s “Defender of the Constitution” award has been ridiculed by liberal anti-war activists and libertarians alike, who argue that Rumsfeld and other Bush administration officials were among the most dismissive of constitutional rights.

Rumsfeld, who was Secretary of Defense under President George W. Bush from 2001 to 2006, oversaw the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan. He was replaced by current Defense secretary Robert Gates after a number of generals called for his resignation.

In 2005, he was sued by the American Civil Liberties Union for authorizing the torture and abuse of detainees at facilities in Iraq and Afghanistan. The ACLU claimed that the Constitution prohibited the Secretary of Defense from adopting or permitting policies of cruelty against civilians in US military custody, but Rumsfeld claimed he could not be held legally liable for the torture. The case was eventually dismissed.

Rumsfeld recently released his memoir, in which he said his biggest regret was not stepping down after the Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse scandal. He said he should have forced then president George W. Bush to accept his resignation over the revelations of abuse by US military guards at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.

Rumsfeld ended up staying in office for another two-and-a-half years until Bush sacked him following a Republican defeat in 2006 legislative elections in which the unpopular Iraq war played a major role.

With earlier reporting by Eric W. Dolan and AFP

The following video was posted to YouTube by Mediaite.

 
 
 
 
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  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/KSIB2PGTAXFCPCMQ74NRZ4UUJM Beerman

    asshats had it coming to them

  • Anonymous

    One can only imagine how much greater our nation would be today if these war profiteers hadn’t used our Treasury as a piggy-bank and wiped their greedy mouths with our Constitution. With “leaders” like these folks, who needs enemy combatants?

  • Anonymous

    Boy, how I long for the good old days when Barry Goldwater defined what a conservative was.

  • Anonymous

    I love it when righties direct their hate at each other!

  • Anonymous

    “War criminal!” another shouted out, prompting a heated reaction from the crowd.

    Thank you, Patriot.

  • ProgressiveInNewYork

    he he he

    I’d pay to see the video…

  • Anonymous

    Somebody should have popped a big balloon full of baby powder on the Hitler Youth there.

  • Guest

    the only thing missing are the nazi uniforms on dick-less and rummy. Investigate, indict, prosecute, imprison, and then waterboard! What goes around, comes around.

  • Knot

    This is the perfect example of common ground between libertarian and progressives. What better reason to come together for a dialogue than shared abhorrence of war-mongers. Libertarian conservatives stand up against the authoritarian elements of the republican party, and the rest of us breath a collective sigh of relief, keep up the good work!

  • Guest

    repeated

  • gypski®

    The Deadly Duo out trying to bring in checks from their sheep. Feed ‘em a phony gourmet dinner and fleece their pockets and checkbooks for cash. Gotta love republican thieves, they take PT Barnum’s axiom to the outer limits.

  • Anonymous

    As a Ron Paul contributor, I hope when he speaks he takes the opportunity to denounce Cheney-Rumsfield for the treasonous war criminals that they are. Otherwise Ron Paul will be judged by those he associates with. My continued support is dependent on that response.

  • ThorsteinVeblen2012

    Even at CPAC.

    Everyone seems to know it except Barack Obama and Eric Holder.

  • Jaimie11

    “Reporting from the Washington, DC, event, McMorris-Santoro estimated that the number of libertarian Paul supporters had grown from previous years, an assertion backed by Bradfield, who suggested that “half” the attendees were libertarians like himself.”

    This is great news! A glimmer of hope may actually become a viable and potent movement.

  • Anonymous

    The correct cry should have been the plural, for Cheney and Rumsfeld.

  • Anonymous

    Republicans certainly do love their torturing war criminals who destroy the world economy and double the debt.

  • Anonymous

    Look at that picture! The Three Stooges: Rummy, Dummy and Scummy.

  • Anonymous

    Defender of Scumbags

  • Anonymous

    I just wish he would have to look into the faces of all the families who lost loved ones in the war he helped lie us into, and explain why he felt their sacrifices were worth it. We suffered as he laughed his way to the bank. At least he will soon be able to afford a nice funeral for himself.

  • Anonymous

    Defender of the Constitution?

    These Conservatives are crack ups. The levels they go to prove their stupidity.

    During Bush Jr’s last term the Republicans lost Capitol Hill. And Bush Jr dumped Rummy the Dummy in fear that Rummy will cause more damage to the party.

    To get well rewarded in Conservative world all you have to do is do as much damage as you can and Conservatives will love you for it.

  • http://twitter.com/HombreFicticio Savior Self

    Watch out for Rumsfeld, the same guy who sold chem weapons to Saddam Hussein sold nuclear tech to North Korea, you know? problem-reaction-solution, hegelian dialectic

  • Anonymous

    Isn’t it fun to watch cancervatives eat each other in public? They’ve wanted another civil war for over 35 years, but they didn”t realize it would be within their own ranks. This behavior is great for America.

  • http://proudprimate.com Proud Primate

    That’s why I gave Ron Paul a hundred bucks for his first money bomb, because I thought these guys were serious.

    And you know, they just might be!

  • Anonymous

    The Libertarians are the true conservatives left of the Republican caucus, and they have a lot more in common with real liberals than the warmonger/civil liberty-destroying leadership in either of the Democratic or Republican parties.

  • http://proudprimate.com Proud Primate

    What do you bet is the average BMI-over-ideal in that crowd of Hummer pumpers?

  • http://proudprimate.com Proud Primate

    I would have to agree. Imagine, Republicans for whom “principle” is not the balance of a debt!

  • http://proudprimate.com Proud Primate

    You had to say that, didn’t you!

  • Anonymous

    Obama is a Democrat, not a Republican, and I’ve heard that they hate him, despite his policies, and crimes, being nearly identical to Bush’s.

  • http://proudprimate.com Proud Primate

    Right you are. Set the differences aside for later. They are trivial by comparison.

  • http://proudprimate.com Proud Primate

    heard you the first time

  • http://proudprimate.com Proud Primate

    They two have been engineering this thing since 74

  • http://proudprimate.com Proud Primate

    Yeah! Even Nixon looks like a statesman by comparison.

  • http://my.firedoglake.com/members/breaker581/profile/ John

    I would love it if Ron Paul could really scare these neocons in the primaries…make Romney and Huckabee really sweat! There is almost no one in the world I would rather see eat their words than that jackass Donald Trump.

  • Anonymous

    Treasonous war criminals who I look forward to seeing them tried and shot for treason. Because then I can piss on their graves. The Hague would do for now cuz I doubt I’ll even ever see a boy scout troup put them on trial. Our government is SO fkn corrupt! Sort of makes sense… you can’t put the previous administration on trial because then congress would have to implicate itself.

  • http://www.youtube.com/user/RepublicConstitution?feature=mhum TruthRegimes

    I still cannot figure out why they were there in the first place?? Also, why was the chant not, “War criminals!”…plural!?

  • Anonymous

    I support this!

  • Anonymous

    It’s a shame they couldn’t all be arrested on the spot for their war crimes, crimes against humanity, crimes against the Constitution, treason, theft, and mass murder.

  • http://twitter.com/mlake9 Mitch Lake

    I almost puked when I saw all those idiots stand and cheer for that disgusting pig. It makes what, the few human beings that are left in the republican party did, even more impressive.

  • Anonymous

    Unfortunately, it will probably get co-opted…

  • Anonymous

    When will they realize that goofy paul is in the same league as the bush crime family?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_E37TNQTF7M4WOKOGWOASNLI2EU Tony

    Can people really be that stupid as to cheer for Dick Cheney? I can tell you as a lifelong Democrat I will probably switch parties just to vote for Ron Paul.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-Valentine/1277133078 Michael Valentine

    Anyone who is against the MIC misadventures can’t be all bad. Spear that holy cow Paul.

  • Anonymous

    NOT ALL REPUBLICANS ARE STUPID, MOST STUPID PEOPLE ARE REPUBLICAN!!…GO FIGURE!!!…..

  • Anonymous

    Ron Paul is like the broken clock… right twice a day and wrong all the rest of the time. In an entirely unrelated matter, I hear Mussolini got the trains to run on time.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_EMLFKLALZHF7EBYUQXHUHQOATQ Tony

    The war on terror, like the war on drugs, was designed to bankrupt this country. Welcome to the New Weird Odor. Atlas Continues to shrug.

  • Anonymous

    Yep. Another popcorn-worthy show is the sniping between Palin and Santorum, which is what they specialize in: criticizing others, with a noticeable lack of ideas.

  • http://www.youtube.com/user/RepublicConstitution?feature=mhum TruthRegimes

    ??? Dr. Paul is one of the most peaceful people in the world. You need to wake up.

  • http://www.youtube.com/user/RepublicConstitution?feature=mhum TruthRegimes

    Most intelligent people will, which you can easily judge from the vitriolic hate-filled speech which oozes forth from those who hate Dr. Paul because they cannot understand that he actually believes in the Constitution unlike most of the Establishment Right or Establishment Left.

  • Anonymous

    Ya, but look at his kid. Something wasn’t right in that home.

  • Guest

    USA USA LA LA LA LA USA USA!!! Duuuhhhhh! BRAIN NOT WANT TO HEAR TRUTH! Duuuhhh!

    Stupid fucking idiots!

  • Anonymous

    … Donald Rumsfeld, the former Bush-era defense secretary who was scheduled to receive this year’s “Defender of the Constitution Award.”

    We desperately need a vomiting avatar on here.

  • Guest

    What’s he wrong about? And please, don’t blurt out some talking points you’ve heard somewhere. Know what you’re talking about.

  • http://www.youtube.com/user/RepublicConstitution?feature=mhum TruthRegimes

    Yeah, you know, because the Establishment Left really has things figured out and is helping all of us so much.

  • http://www.youtube.com/user/RepublicConstitution?feature=mhum TruthRegimes

    Correction, Neo-Cons love war and love damage. True Paleoconservatives wish for no such thing.

  • http://www.youtube.com/user/RepublicConstitution?feature=mhum TruthRegimes

    Correct. Most modern liberal notions along with most libertarian notions can be traced back to Classical Liberalism in Britain in the 19th century. Too bad Fox has poisoned the notion of conservativism by conflating it with the Neo-Cons, former Straussians who abandoned the left because they were too pacifist and joined the Republicans to take over Lincoln’s party and corrupt it into warfare.

  • http://www.youtube.com/user/RepublicConstitution?feature=mhum TruthRegimes

    Palin and Santorum are both Neo-Cons, not Ron Paul-style libertarians. Remember there are two forms of libertarians right now with about half of the Tea Party types bought off with Koch money, just like Soros does with the left, and that group is the Neo-Con arm. Distinctions are important.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_PS3ZJ2DB5BBCUXTGVCIECDZT64 One Species

    Who cares about Paul. A spade was called a spade, here in public. That’s news.

  • Guest

    sorry, there was a very long delay that made it seem like my first post got lost in cyber space.

  • SocialistCafe

    Okay, so Libertarians are the new right wing.

    Democrat Party is the new center.

    We now need a leftist party to keep them all honest.

  • Anonymous

    Is he in favor of universal, single-payer health care? If not, that’s one thing he’s wrong about.
    Would he like to see Medicare abolished and Social Security privatized? If so, two more strikes against him.

    “Every Man For Himself”, and “I’ve Got Mine, So Screw You, Buddy” is no philosophy upon which to base a society.

  • http://proudprimate.com Proud Primate

    Welcome aboard. You’ll get the feel of it soon enough.

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/L5PHKRPFHK3LLTRDNVH2ZBIWOA Cal

    Karma! My heart is filled with joy! To think that I would live to see the day that Cheney and Rumsfeld would feel uncomfortable when surrounded by their faithful. What a world we live in :)

  • Anonymous

    This is painful to watch.
    This USA USA doesn’t travel well when celebrating war criminals.
    What a complete murderous joke the US has become.

  • Anonymous

    Right. Gr8.
    This betters those pansies in Egypt !!!
    I bet this American Truth movement will even cause these war criminals to consider changing their deodorant !!!
    That will show them !! USA USA !!!

  • Anonymous

    Justice at Last !!!
    Spray, Power Gel or Roll On Cheney ?
    (Wow – American justice is TOUGH !!!)

  • Anonymous

    These war criminals should be gone back to hell where they belong.

  • Anonymous

    Democratic Party.

  • Anonymous

    He actually said he wouldn’t cut those things, he would cut the wars instead.

  • Anonymous

    Your an idiot.

  • Anonymous

    Actually, the thing about Benito was sarcastic. He outlawed reporting that the trains were late.

  • Anonymous

    The list of what the King of the Paultards is right about is much shorter.

    The answer: Virtually nothing.

  • Anonymous

    You need to study more about actual facts regarding Mr. Soros.

  • Anonymous

    Obama and the Republicrates are continuing the policies and expanding the wars.

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/6EX2KJ7LSZMDCBZWCH62Q7CABY Sandra

    This is EXACTLY what Ron Paul wanted to do, parties be damned!

  • Anonymous

    When did he “actually” say this? Links, please? I like Paul’s anti-war stance, but his “Survival of the Fittest” approach to social issues turns me off big-time.

    And again, he is wrong, wrong, wrong on health care.

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/6EX2KJ7LSZMDCBZWCH62Q7CABY Sandra

    All or nothing, always loses.

  • Phil E. Drifter
  • Guest

    You’re right, he’s not for single payer. But he dislikes the current corrupt system of insurance companies as you and I do. But you’re right. I disagree with him on that. But I disagree with you when you when you say he is wrong most of the time.

    Furthermore, he disagrees with you and I on this issue because he truly believes that if we eliminate government protection of insurance company monopolies that we could have affordable care for Americans. He does not disagree with you and I because he is bought and paid for, like 99% of the other politicians who oppose single payer.

    Ron Paul does not have a “screw you buddy, I’ve got mine” philosophy. He just believes that a big government means less freedom. He is absolutely right about that. There are many once liberal, now libertarians, who agree. WE have seen the professional wrestling charade known as Dem vs Rep, Obama being more of a threat to our bill of rights than Bush. We have come to the conclusion that our massive government is out of control and is beyond repair, and reducing it must be priority number one before other issues can be tackled.

  • Anonymous

    That should be “you’re”. YOU’RE an idiot. Not “your”.

  • Anonymous

    Agreed. Ron Paul jumped the shark long ago when confronted with, for example, 911 Truth.
    http://www.ae911truth.org/

  • Guest

    It’s not “survival of the fittest”. It’s more like “there would be PLENTY to go around if we were free. Free people, free commerce.”

    Again, I don’t agree with him on everything but the man has integrity. I’d take him over Obama any day of the week.

    Group One: Obama, Bush. Clinton

    Group Two: Paul, Kucinich, Nadar

    One group has integrity and is not bought and paid for by big business.

  • Guest

    Bush is a criminal, Obama is a criminal, both facts that are easily proven. You want to debate that?

    Now where’s your proof of Paul being a criminal? You have nothing.

  • Anonymous

    By the time that guy yelled out “war criminal,” I was already throwing up.

  • Anonymous

    WHERE did I ever say “he is wrong most of the time”? Please don’t put words in my mouth.
    But if indeed “he truly believes that if we eliminate government protection of insurance company monopolies that we could have affordable care for Americans” I would have to seriously question his judgment. What is he suggesting? That under his plan free-market competition would lower the cost of a heart bypass to $24.95? Can he point to a single example, anywhere in the world, where such a plan was successful? On the other hand, systems such as Medicare WORK. Why do libertarians like Paul so vehemently oppose expanding Medicare to cover all Americans?
    Finally, why aren’t you and RPir throwing your support behind Kucinich or Grayson?

  • Anonymous

    That’s a bunch of crap. “Massive government is out of control and beyond repair ?.” Universal health Care has been the norm in Western Countries since the Second World War. Everywhere but in the corporate controlled US.
    Part of Health Care “catching on” in GB was England getting bombed and a lot of citizens needing medical attention. Get it ?
    I live in Canada – a heart transplant if I need one will cost me nothing. I pay for no medical insurance – it comes from general tax revenue. My mother recently, over the last four years, had two shoulder transplants and spent a considerable time in hospital. Cost to the family ?
    Nothing. Keep spilling the “bad government” crap. That’s why America still cheers Cheney I suppose.
    But like your 9/11 Report – it dosen’t travel well.

  • http://twitter.com/keepresisting Keep Resisting!

    Can’t we finally dismiss completely the one-dimensional thinking forced on our government child indoctrination centers? Most now are fully aware of the nolan chart (God rest his soul), and the Advocates for Self-government World’s Smallest Political Quiz.

    Go ahead and take it yourself here:
    http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz

    You will see that you are plotted not on a one-dimensional line but a plane, which allows for a more honest differentiation of political thought.

    It is a real simple concept- the most important invisible line is the one NO ONE is supposed to talk about- the virtical. The line between 100% liberty and 0% liberty (100% tyranny)

    The more tyranny you accept- whether on liberal or conservative sides, the more you plot closer to government control of everything and everyone.

  • http://twitter.com/keepresisting Keep Resisting!

    I think we can finally dispense with all the Ron Paul haters. Now that he has been proven right- and the FED wrong, the TSA wrong, the MIC wrong, and a whole long list of other things our government gets wrong all the time- he is the lone voice to say No, it’s not right to kill innocent brown people in iraq/iran/pakistan/you-name-it-stan! It’s not right to send billions of dollars in weapons that get used on Egyptian civilians while saying to Mubarak, now please do not use this ordinance on your people – wink wink… for not 1 year- not 2 years, not 10 years… but 30 years!

    The US government military industrial complex operating with all our presidents, all our congresses, all our supreme courts, in that time approved- approved- approved of ALL his dealings with egyptians- and we gave him billions and billions and billions – all of which is being forced on our great grandchildren as debt!

    AND
    we have done the same with despotic israel government (AIPAC) as well!

    Ron Paul is not an isolationist- he wants to trade with other nations. He does not want to fight them or instigate conflict with them. He does not want to “install” their (our) presidents there…

    Anyone who prefers republican or democrat policy is in favor of torture of brown people as a consequence of either the warfare state or the welfare state!

  • Anonymous

    Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. You are the one taking the “soma.”

    “Doctor?” He isn’t even certified by his peers. I wouldn’t trust him pokin’ around on my eyes. But I do “see” you’ve got the lobotomy.

  • http://twitter.com/keepresisting Keep Resisting!

    you just do not get it at all.

    In order to preserve personal liberty, you must also defend the liberties of others with whom you disagree. The first axiom is “First, do no harm” which is very close to Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

    It is the height of ignorance to suggest that libertarians would not help people in need!

    We simply think it is wrong TO STEAL. You remember that one too- Thou shalt not steal…

    Taxation is theft. If you want to voluntarily contribute to a program you think benefits others or yourself, by all means do it. But it is not right to force at the barrel of a gun, involuntary compliance (servitude) on others who do not like that particular program or simply do not wish to support it or take advantage of it. Don’t think taxation is at the barrel of a gun? Oh you are right- they first send a bill- or at least make you send them a check- if you don’t they tack on penalties and interest.. but if you sufficiently resist it is either jail if you let them take you, or even death if you resist that! Taxation for all government programs is based on the fining, jailing, injuring, and killing the “non compliant” who do not wish to be stolen from…

  • Anonymous

    You goofy bastards never cease to amaze me.

  • Anonymous

    Rand Paul spoke RIGHT before them. People were trying to get out and away as fast as humanly possible, but the lines down the aisles were slow. Putting those guys RIGHT after Rand Paul was interesting scheduling, if you ask me. I think they were trying to discredit Rand’s calls for financial cuts to the military — and indeed Rumsfield did come out and say that would be a bad idea.

  • Anonymous

    Learn now, if the goofy-pauls get their way, you won’t get a chance to “schoolin’” anymore. But “YOU’RE” too damn dumb to figure it out.

  • ToyotaBedZRock

    Yup

  • ToyotaBedZRock
  • ToyotaBedZRock
  • ToyotaBedZRock

    No shooting we are not them.

  • ToyotaBedZRock

    Soros did not donate this past year. And he doesn’t influence people by lying.

    And!

    Ron was just caught associating with white supremacists, again.

    http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/469170/ron_paul_invites_neo-confederate_to_testify_before_congress_about_federal_reserve/

  • Guest

    Your government does not maintain an empire around the world and fight multiple wars, all in the name of supporting a military industrial complex. Please, I don’t need a Canadian telling my my government is not out of control.

  • http://www.bobcatarts.com/ Robert Gandy

    The light of Truth always burns away darkness. Sometimes it’s a very bright and harsh light at first, so the reaction to it may be hostile, but if the light is persistent and its Truth unwavering, what it reveals will be undeniable.

  • http://twitter.com/keepresisting Keep Resisting!

    “I live in Canada – a heart transplant if I need one will cost me nothing. I pay for no medical insurance – it comes from general tax revenue. My mother recently, over the last four years, had two shoulder transplants and spent a considerable time in hospital. Cost to the family ?
    Nothing.”

    YOU EEEEEEEEEEDDDDEEEEEEOOOOOOOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!

    You did, in fact PAY FOR IT- and you FORCED OTHERS AT THE BARREL OF A GUN to pay your medical bills. Worse, you were forced to pay other’s medical bills!

    That’s why your taxes are so high. Basically- just take the family budjet and write one big check to your government and let them pay ALL YOUR BILLS… That is not free- you are just tacking on administrative costs on top of those charges, and giving the government way too much say about how your care will be handled. “He’s bleeding doc, and his heart stopped” “Get the paddles” WAIT! Call the bureaucrat first to see if its ok, and if they will accept the charge… beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep.

    fools.

    Libertarians are not corporatists- the only thing worse than a government employee is a government contractor.

  • Guest

    Sorry, I thought you were the owner of this comment – “Ron Paul is like the broken clock… right twice a day and wrong all the rest of the time. ”

    I was answering that comment, when you answered for the original author of the comment.

    On to your point. Where oh where does a heart bypass cost $24.95? Don’t be fooled into thinking single payer is free, just because YOU might not be paying for it. Again, to restate, I believe in single payer theoretically.

  • Anonymous

    Did you go to that goofy bastard for your eye glasses? Or I guess you can’t read? Hopefully the latter.

    When he follows thru with his “plans”, left over from his old “liberty” party and tries to find a Smedley Butler to overthrow the government, he will be a criminal. Asswipe.

  • Guest

    RP has said Kucinich is his favorite on the other side of the aisle. Likewise, Kucinich has had kind words for Paul. There’s mutual respect there.

  • ToyotaBedZRock

    There is nothing conservative about libertarians.

    It is the older democrats that have some very odd ideas about government that I hate and consider dangerous. Like Lawrence O’Donnell, I wouldn’t trust him.

    I identify myself as progressive btw.

  • Anonymous

    What’s his “solution” for 35% unemployment when the troops and contractors are “pulled out”? Take some more soma.

  • http://twitter.com/keepresisting Keep Resisting!

    Liberty is so much better than tyranny.
    voluntaryism is so much better than coercion.
    freedom is so much better than slavery
    gold and silver are so much better than federal reserve notes or special drawing rights
    individual thinking is so much better than groupthink
    civil liberties are so much better than feel-ups by government goons

  • Guest

    The government can’t “fix” unemployment. The government can take people’s money and give it to other people in the form of unnecessary jobs in unnecessary wars.

  • Guest

    “he WILL be a criminal.” You’d fit right in with the folks at Homeland Security.

    Also, the name calling just proves you have no point.

  • Guest

    The witness was called because he is a student of Austrian economics.

    Why don’t you go after Loyola University for employing him as an economics professor, instead of Ron Paul for asking him about economics?

    Using your line of thinking, the entire staff at Loyola are in a worse position than Paul.

  • http://twitter.com/Howieisright Howieisright

    Ron Paul one of the only politicians to openly support wikileaks and a transparent government. Also would be the only politician to ever really want to do something to fix the FED. End war,patriot act, end corporate subsidies and bail outs as well as many other things that most do not have the balls to do anything about.

  • Anonymous

    The American right-wing is pretty much alone in their belief that “Taxation is theft”. Most civilized people on the planet view taxation as simply the most efficient, even-handed method for providing certain products and services that contribute to the common good, benefiting all the people equally. How else to pay for building and maintaining roads, for example? Or to pay for police and fire protection? Of course, it is true that people in most other civilized countries receive far more in return for their tax dollars than do we Americans. Health care for all, free college education, etc.
    Whenever I hear people complain about the evils of taxation, I am reminded of this quotation by James Kenneth Galbraith:

    “The modern conservative is engaged in one of man’s oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.”

  • http://random-gary.blogspot.com/ Gary

    What Left? We have Right and Far-Right. No Left left in Washington, D.C.

  • SocialistCafe

    Your mistake is in thinking that government is the problem. It is not. The problem is corporations and their near total control of the government.

    A master is a master no matter what you call it.

  • Anonymous

    What have you done about it ?

    The place is a joke. You live and vote there.

    My country is going down the tubes as well. I have nothing to brag about.

  • Anonymous

    Don`t forget your meds.
    The US is the only “civilized“ (under dispute) country with no universal health care.
    There`s more cash in wars I guess.
    Hey `keep resisting `(the truth ?) You sound a bit upset. No health care ?
    Inside job ?
    http://www.ae911truth.org/

  • Anonymous

    Opps . Sorry about the meds comment. I guess they`re too expensive down there.
    My bad.
    But while we have your interest.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpdg-WDOPVA

    Maybe youcould save a bit of warrior money and put it into health care.

  • Anonymous

    You’ll need a modern Karl Hess.

  • Anonymous

    His kid is a doctor and a US senator, a real bum.
    What do your kids do? go read some more rhetoric from the clueless.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_EZ4W5CDCIVXKIIKESYBN2EP6VE brian

    Well I can’t say that I trust Rand at all, but what has he done wrong so far? He has proposed legislation to end the fed and he is taking on the Patriot act. Much better than 99.9% of the democrats so far. Again, I don’t trust him. I wouldn’t vote for him. But what has he done wrong thus far?

  • Anonymous

    and should be done on the state level and not the federal level.

  • dula

    Awe Cheney actually felt some emotion from being accepted and humiliated at the same time. If he keeps letting feelings come in like that, what’s left of his filthy heart will explode.

  • http://twitter.com/LevStrauss Lev Strauss

    Funny how your last sentence pretty much condemns your argument. The problem is that most progressives are ignorant as to human nature. They want consolidation of power to national and supernational entities. Why would want to submit to a global organization when the consolidated leviathan that is the federal government is corrupt enough? Why do liberals think they will fix the problem by giving it more scope and money, by upping the take?

    Some of the Greens get it, federalism is the key. The countries that most socialists like to point to as examples of successes are usually small countries, which strengthens the argument for federalism. That way libertarians and socialists can both exist in the same country and both have control over their lives as they see fit.

    Of course we are told that federalism is the equivalent of slavery, because slavery existed under a time that states had more say in how they live their lives. That is the equivalent to saying if we had no government we’d be literally wearing loincloths and rubbing sticks togefther for fire, as if all the progress we made with matches and clothes would be erased, the evolution of our societal character would evaporate overnight. That is not consistent with reality. Of course if we libertarians bring up stuff like California Pot Raids, many from the left suddenly become fairweather federalists.

    Human Nature. Look it up folks.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_EZ4W5CDCIVXKIIKESYBN2EP6VE brian

    I, PhD, would LOVE to challenge you to a friendly battle of wits over a beer sometime denny… You goofy little troll bitch.

  • Anonymous

    sound money…………….

    So now we are at war for employment reasons, great.

  • Anonymous

    First of all, it’s the Democratic Party, not the “Democrat” party. I’ve only seen that lame attempt at derision employed by Faux Noise devotees.
    Secondly, I’m naturally suspicious whenever a Ron Paul supporter tries to convince others that Paul is worthy of respect by touting his anti-war credentials. I didn’t see many libertarians protesting during the run-up to the Iraq war. (Though I do applaud their actions as reported in this article.) On the other hand, Dennis Kucinich was an early and consistent opponent of that war. And unlike Paul, he supports single payer. So give me a single reason why I should switch my allegiances to Paul. And more pertinent – Why aren’t YOU a Kucinich supporter? Paul is HARDLY the “lone voice to say No” that you proclaim. He is, however, quite possibly the lone right-wing voice to do so. The right, after all, doesn’t exactly have a long anti-war tradition like that of the left.

  • http://twitter.com/1rebelle cheryl strickland

    This is much better than them beating up little girls!!

  • Anonymous

    When`s Ron Paul shutting down the Fed ?
    The last time I saw him on the Steve Colbert Show he talked about shutting down the Post Office.
    No mention of the Fed.
    Wasn`t really that thrilling of a show.
    They used to associate “Truthers“ with Ron Paul – but he seems to have disowned them.
    So. How`s the Resisting going ?
    http://www.ae911truth.org/
    Inside job ?

  • Anonymous

    My guess is the 2 people who “liked“ this don`t live in Canada or in any western civilization.
    If you`re sick, injured, or in need of care – free – is actually good.

  • Anonymous

    Of COURSE single payer isn’t “free”. My point is that Paul’s claim that a competitive, free-market, for-profit system could somehow lower costs to such an extent that health care would be “affordable to all” is ludicrous.
    I don’t know about you, but I would GLADLY pay higher taxes if, in return, it meant universal health care. Hell, the amount I’d save in insurance premiums alone would more than offset any tax hike. Plus, I’d have the satisfaction of knowing that I was contributing to a stronger, healthier America. I wouldn’t resent chipping in my share to help cover YOUR medical expenses. Why do some people resent chipping in to cover mine? I hate to simply chalk it up to selfishness, but it certainly smells that way sometimes.

  • http://twitter.com/keepresisting Keep Resisting!

    So just because you can’t figure out how to build and pay for roads doesn’t mean others can’t figure it out. I am not a rocket scientist, a medical doctor, or a road builder, but even I know these are tasks backed by engineering – that does not require a massive government prorgam on top to accomplish! Otherwise, let’s see, some people do not understand computers and networks- so lets put all the IT infrastructure OUT OF BUSINESS except for those that work directly for the government. Absurd!!

    Police, Fire?? Gee, I guess the market would not obviously see a need for competitive fire departments or police – there are obvioulsy not enough criminals or fires… again ABSURD!!

    Don’t want to pay for your emergency police or fire needs out of pocket at an event like a fire? maybe you would like to buy FIRE INSURANCE? INSURANCE AGAINST THEFT OR LOSS.. CAR INSURANCE TO ALSO COVER SPEEDING TICKETS…

    in a truly competitive market all of these would be available.

    I guess i’m just not civilized since I think only people who want services should pay for them…

  • Anonymous

    This is one reason he`s a war criminal.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoAD8HlrLZg

  • Anonymous

    They keep trotting out war criminals like we think they are cool. It’s like featuring Mr T again on a doritos commercial.

  • http://twitter.com/keepresisting Keep Resisting!

    you did not just suggest that heart bypass is only worth a drug copay?? Still- all services pushed through managed care are at least twice as much as they would be in a non-cartelized,non-corporatist free market. Once the market price has decreased through competition, insurance carriers pass savings in lower premiums to reflect the lower cost. It’s the same reason today you pay less for generics vs brand meds. again, not rocket science here.

  • Anonymous

    What category should we put the Koch Brothers in? They are Libertarians that take government subsidies and they just bankrolled the last election. Fascism anyone?

  • Anonymous

    Keep Resisting,
    You seem willfully ignorant that you pay for it in the US too.. not only do you pay for it with health insurance premiums but you also pay for other people’s health care because your premiums are priced to cover the risk pool. Oh, don’t forget your taxes also pay to cover the emergency services provided to the 45 million uninsured people in the US. You pay twice.

    A tax is a tax, whether it’s imposed by the government or whether its a fee you pay to anyone for the same service.

    In Canada, they pay out of their income taxes.
    In the US your tax (assuming you’re insured) comes both from your insurance premiums and also from income taxes because you pay for the uninsured
    .. and if your insurance is employer provided, you’re being compensated with the employer portion of your insurance premium. That’s considered ‘a perk’.. just another part of your compensation from your employers perspective. Those are funds that could be provided to your salary if you had single-payer health care.

    More importantly, assuming Canada’s health care system operates like Medicare.. it’s running about 3% administrative overhead. For every $100 that medicare pays out to cover health care cost, they require an additional $3 to run the system.
    Most private insurance companies pull a minimum of 15% overhead and I’ve heard of at least one that was pulling over 35%.
    So.. you’re not only paying into the risk pool with your premiums and your employers premiums, you’re also paying in 15, 20, maybe 35% more to make the executives and stock holders rich. It is FOR PROFIT after all. Perhaps someone can help me here.. who’s the insurance company CEO who made 2/3 OF A BILLION DOLLARS in something like 3 years. You’re paying for that because you’re just too clever to pay a government department head maybe $150k per year.

    So, who’s the fool?
    The guy in Canada who pays a 3% premium for his health care through his income taxes or you.. the guy who pays 15-35% premium for the right to have his health care come from his wages instead of his taxes.
    (Oh, but remember.. you STILL pay tax money to reimburse hospitals for unpaid emergency bills.. because medical costs are the #1 cause of bankruptcy in the US)

    sucker.

  • http://twitter.com/Howieisright Howieisright

    I am a Kucinich supporter but he is not gonna run in 2012. Not sure where you got your Ron Paul facts does not matter. I guarantee it will be Obama for the left again in 2012 and that is not good enough. Time to pick the lesser of evils.

  • http://twitter.com/keepresisting Keep Resisting!

    a job is not something handed to you because you need one- gee why doesn’t the govt just employ everyone then?? They can fight with the corporate govt contractors like a recruiter for your next assignment, and in between you are “on the beach”- absurd!

    Everyone in the world that works- does so for a client or clients.

    Directly or Indirectly.

    If your client stops paying, your company fires excess staff.
    or it quickly finds another set of clients to meet its payroll.

    I think a lot of socialists would better understand what it is to earn a living if they tried to own their own business, satisfy clients and meet payrolls.

    Sadly, most don’t- they get their socialist degree on student loans, they try to start their business on sba loans, they buy their home on fha loans, they use their discrimination status to get more favorable terms, and they go after government contracts instead of real customers- or they just get a job working for someone else who does all the heavy lifting- and they resent him for it so they unionize.

  • http://twitter.com/aipfan aipfan

    The shot of the crowd jumping to their feet and cheering made me howl with laughter.

  • http://twitter.com/keepresisting Keep Resisting!

    your govt job:

    man 1: hole digger paid at rate twice the market
    man 2: seed/tree planter paid at rate twice the market
    man 3: hole filler paid at rate twice the market

    Each follows each other in order to complete their tasks.

    but man 2 is usually out sick or on vacation.

  • Anonymous

    Voluntarism is better than coercion.. until something needs to get done and no one is willing to volunteer. That’s the problem I see with the Libertarian utopia.. a lot of libertarians seem to be from the ‘I’ve got mine jack, screw you’ camp.

    I find it hilarious that you are complaining about groupthink.. while you mindlessly repeat talking points.

    And finally, I thoroughly dispute your claim that gold and silver are so much better than the full faith and guarantee of my country. I dispute it for at least 3 reasons.

    1) I don’t believe my entire economy should be tied to the artificial value of a metal.. a metal who’s supply and demand are affected by forces beyond the control of my nation. I don’t need the discovery of a massive vein in south Africa or anywhere else to tank my currency.
    2) Libertarians blame bubbles on the Fed and the ‘fiat currency’ and claim a gold standard would solve this. We’re in a gold bubble right now because paranoid right wingers order overpriced gold from fly-by-night operations that advertise on talk radio. Brilliant.
    3) Arguments that the ‘fiat currency’ have no value are arguments that you believe the US is a failed state. Why do you hate America? If, as liberterians claim, the US Dollar has no real value then your nation has failed and gold won’t help you much when the nation implodes in to a post-apocalypitc nightmare. Gold only has value when the nation is stable and the economy is solid.. when people are willing to trade real things for shiny metal. Poor people don’t want gold, they want food. I’ll guarantee.. if you’re shipwrecked on an island, a candy bar will make you a lot richer then the cast-away with the double-Eagles in his pocket.

  • Anonymous

    And here is where Ron Paul supporters and progressive Democrats will never see eye to eye. You see, we believe there are certain things that should NEVER be motivated by profit. Would you REALLY want a profit-driven police or fire department, whose primary goal would be maximizing shareholder profit, not public safety? It’s obscene. Health insurance is simply a racket. Why should any of your premium dollars fund such non-healthcare-related costs as advertising, stock dividends and outlandish executive salaries? Medicare operates with a FRACTION of the overhead of private insurers. Bottom line – there ARE some things that government does better than private business.
    I’m not suggesting people shouldn’t “pay” for services. But nobody “wants” to suffer a serious injury or be stricken with a life-threatening illness. But these things happen. And few can afford to pay the medical bills such events generate. Medical expenses are the single biggest reason Americans are forced into bankruptcy. As for insurance, the insurance industry REFUSES to sell policies to millions of Americans with pre-existing conditions. “Bad risks”, you see.
    Bottom line – For-profit health insurance is ethically and morally indefensible.
    ..

  • http://twitter.com/Howieisright Howieisright

    All that will not matter when the FED is audited and we find out where the missing trillions that went missing from the pentagon the day before 911 and stop the parasite from leaching us that no one has addressed. Or like his son said we stop the foreign aid hand outs when we are being driven into debt that money could buy allot of SSI or health care. Instead of Mubaraks pocket or Israels land stealing genocidal crimes.

  • michael2317

    Hey Armo
    Are there any issues you care about that don’t involve you holding your hand out?

  • http://twitter.com/Howieisright Howieisright

    Cost more to support them over seas than to support them at home. Look up the cost of the wars.

  • http://twitter.com/Howieisright Howieisright

    WOW! That was an Ignorant statement.

  • http://twitter.com/keepresisting Keep Resisting!

    You are arguing corporatist health care- we do not have a free market.

    there should be no such thing as group health tied to an employer.
    instead, in a free market, health insurance would be like car insurance or life insurance for most people. NO ONE is offering this sensible plan:
    1. buy health insurance in 5, 10, 15 yr or more terms. pay low rates, have about 18 months pre-existing condition exclusion. (yes there would be bridge coverage for that)
    2. competive pricing drives down costs.
    3. just like car insurance, individuals and families pay premiums. Buy mid to high deductable insurance policies.
    4. Employers pay only deductables for employees they value. They could gradually cover up to 100% deductable based on years employed, performance, etc.

    very simple.

  • http://twitter.com/keepresisting Keep Resisting!

    koch are neocons that call themselves libertarian- but bob barr is not libertarian, tea party / koch is not libertarian. Only Austrian Economists are real libertarians. See lewrockwell.com, mises.org. Ron Paul is closely aligned with them, not koch.

  • Anonymous

    “Once the market price has decreased through competition, insurance carriers pass savings in lower premiums to reflect the lower cost.”

    Suuurre they will. And they’ll insure EVERYBODY, regardless of medical history. And competition will lower costs SO MUCH that monthly premiums will drop SO LOW that EVERYONE will be able to afford the few bucks it’ll cost.

    Why, the insurance industry has a long and glorious history of passing savings on to their policy holders, and not to their executives or their shareholders.

    Provide us with one shred of evidence to support your contention that “a non-cartelized (sic),non-corporatist free market” would lower the cost of, say, a heart bypass operation. You can’t. It’s nonsense.

    And no, the reason generics are cheaper than brand names is because until their exclusive patents expire, drug companies can gouge the public by charging whatever they damn-well please. Besides, drugs are a PRODUCT. Health care is a service. Health care PROVIDERS are doctors, nurses, paramedics, hospitals, 911 operators etc. Your insurance company is NOT a provider of health care. It’s a business. It’s primary goal is to turn a profit. Every claim it’s forced to pay LOWERS their profit. Every claim they can find some excuse not to cover INCREASES their profit. As publicly traded companies they are required BY LAW to, first and foremost, maximize shareholder profits. .

  • http://twitter.com/keepresisting Keep Resisting!

    As for 9/11 inside job – yes it was. just look at building 7.

  • http://twitter.com/keepresisting Keep Resisting!

    actually britain considered our founders criminals too ever since the stamp act revolt. but ron paul is no smedley, he is not fascist/corporatist. he does not take bribes. he is Dr. No.

    As an agorist, i prefer to see the complete destruction of the federal government and even state governments. maybe not all at once- more like a domino game. Instead colonies are just fine.

    Before that happens we do need to overthrow the government, put them in prison, along with the banksters.

    we need to follow egypt’s example and rise up againat tyranny.

  • http://twitter.com/Howieisright Howieisright

    I love how he called out all the neocons.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNb_610L0GE

  • parrots_abound

    I am proud of my fellow Ron Paul supporters..the TRUE “Anti War” contingent.

    Screw the Neocons and Neoliberals…

    And thank you to the Tea Party members who voted against the patriot act. Maybe there is hope for some of you Tea Party Express/Winger nuts who are part of the movement.

    Ron Paul represents THE REAL AND ORIGINAL Tea Party ideas. All you warmongers and Israeli apologists GTFO now!!!

  • NadePaulKuciGravMcKi

    Trump, Rummy, and Cheney
    to join Mubarak in Fuhrerbunker.

  • Anonymous

    “Holding” my “hand out”? Oh, I get it. Because I believe in universal health care, that makes me a lazy bum always looking for government freebies. That about it, mikey?
    So happens I retired after working 22 years in a career that has been ranked in several studies as the most stressful occupation in America. Next year I’ll qualify for Medicare, thank heavens, since my insurance premiums have become unaffordable – even though my ex-employer continues to pay a portion of it. I would gladly pay higher taxes if it meant that every American, even yahoos like you, would be provided with health care.
    If you are really so opposed to “government handouts”, stay the hell off of my roads and out of my libraries. Don’t you dare send any of your kids to a public school MY TAXES pay for. Don’t ever think of calling 911 if you should need emergency aid, and when you become eligible, don’t even dream of applying for Medicare or Social Security. Doing any of these things would mark you as a hypocritical weasel. And you’re not a hypocritical weasel, are you mikey?
    .

  • Anonymous

    follow them everywhere… they should stand outside of their homes(all of their homes) and scream in sifts… they shouldnt be able to take a crap in their own bathrooms without being reminded of who and what they truly are.

  • http://twitter.com/Howieisright Howieisright
  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_IJYPRPMV7SG52CGYF2GI74XSZU M M

    @ffakr

    I thank God you’re NOT my financial planner! If you want to be screwed good like a light bulb, or be bailed out like the “too big to fail” bankers here in America, then I won’t stop you!

    Why would you trust a government who manipulates how they report unemployment statistics to the point you must trust an outside source such as shadowstats dot com to keep track for reporting accuracy’s sake? That alone raises concern.

    Consider that your wonderful Federal government via the Treasury and so-called Federal Reserve, as Federal as Federal Express, has steadfastly refused an audit of the nation’s gold reserves since 1954. For you to carry the trust you say, would you happen to know how much of said gold is encumbered, or leased/owed to other soverigns? Libertarians in the know have sought out this information for some time now. Enlighten us if you would, and keep it reasonable please.

    1) Apparently you’re not familiar with the Constitution’s mention of Gold and Silver contained therein. After the Continental’s failure, both these metals were included for a reason! If you wish to argue that both are “babarious relics”, “collectables”, etc. then that’s up to you. This cowboy has both in his personal safe, the silver bought in ’03 has already more than quintupled in regard to the same paper crap you have so much faith in. Why don’t you simply address the Treasury and their paper tiger brethren at the Fed of your concerns regarding gold in particular? We supposedly own > 8,000 tonnes of it, requiring space, requiring security (imagine that! when fiat paper is SO MUCH BETTER?) I’m absolutely serious here! China, our primary competitor, seriously wishes to expand their reserves by 10,000 tonnes: http://tinyurl.com/4lcbevr will show you more. Even if you think it’s a relic, there are billions more with a far greater understanding of Real Money. SIlver is becoming more a part of this, by the way. I’m not a total gold or silver bug, however, we’re nowhere near a “top” in either. This is still years away.

    2) There are indeed garbage, fly-by-nighters who take advantage of the ignorant. The bashing of gold and silver as money by yourself and others have only added to the crook’s legitimacy! When it truly gets bad, and we’re getting way closer to that point than most wish to admit, most Sheeple won’t have the luxury that I do in having took the time to learn the differences between the throwbacks and keepers. It’s the American People’s duty to do their homework as I’m not here to make specific recommendations, however, I’ve not been ripped off. The phrase “rare coin” should be avoided like the plague as the numismatic value will likely not be considered when the peak gold in dollars value is reached. This won’t likely happen until the Dow crosses an ounce of gold’s value in dollars again. Let this be the cheesy hint I’m willing to share as the fundamentals support me more than you, unless you’re one of those high-dollar bankers taking the bailouts, leaving our offspring holding the bag.

    3) Gold is the money of kings, silver is the money of gentlemen, barter is the money of peasants – but debt is the money of slaves.”
    –Norm Franz, Money and Wealth in the New Millenium

    I don’t live on a desert island, nor do you. That was one wonderful quote to remember.
    Does the desert island have a King? Gentlemen won’t be present either. That’s a matter of survival, but when the candy bar is gone, you have nothing! Apples and Oranges…
    Yet, I stand by my argument that if you’re truly sincere in your paper tiger fiat beliefs, you seriously consider having the Treasury and Fed dispose of all the Nation’s precious metals. They will need to change the Constitution, but many who think like you already believe that ancient piece of paper should be “dynamic”, that “times change and we should change with it” but we’ve not yet developed CURES for AIDS or even cancer. Some things have not changed!
    Think of the taxpayer money being saved by no longer protecting something considered so dated as gold. If silver wasn’t such a valuable metal, why does the Government no longer have any in surplus? They used to have 5 BILLION OUNCES of the shiny sideline!! I’m barely getting warmed up.

    To conclude: Wave the flag all you wish, but you haven’t a clue as to how most of our ancestors here actually believed. They elected people to keep us free. Today’s Tea Party has the jury wondering already, when their majority actually voted to extend the Patriot Act. I’d entertain knowing if YOU love this rape of Liberty? You probably love ObamaCare and the other sillyness ramrodded down our throats. If allowed to blossom and infect, our country is so screwed, but you’ll sleep soundly with your paper garbage, just as the Germans did back in the 20′s and Zimbabwe recently – nice fire starter.

    I sleep very soundly for the reasons already stated.

  • Anonymous

    They should both be buried in Guantánamo … alive !!!

  • parrots_abound

    Wrong,

    1) The old Right Wing…namely the Neocons who are too embarrassed to admit the are Neocons, chose “Libertarian” as the umbrella to hide under.

    2) “Libertarains” come in all shapes and colors.Some more classic European, Austrian influenced,,Progressive, etc.

    3) Authoritarian Right or Left? Take your pick and enjoy the ride to hell.

    4) You’re a self proclaimed “Socialist”…you lose already.

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/LEUDUVF5EGJZRZETF3KV53P7BQ Thomas

    What really surprises me is that Cheney didn’t have his Blackwater goons fire on the protesters and then blame it on Iranian terrorists wearing Blackwater jackets.

  • Anonymous

    “Worse, you were forced to pay other’s medical bills!”
    Don’t delude yourself into thinking that most people are as selfish, self-absorbed, bigoted, cynical or deluded as you.

    In fact MOST civilized humans recognize the concept of contributing to the common good. To “chipping in”, in other words. You are also totally clueless as to the government’s role under single-payer. They have NO influence concerning patient care. ALL medical decisions are made between patient and doctor. It’s the bureaucrats at the INSURANCE COMPANIES who today must be consulted as to whether or not the patient is “covered”.

    No wonder you hold “government workers” in such contempt. They don’t fit your world view in which all people are either workers, or “clients”, or something….Ever hear of government of, by and for the people? Why do you hate everything this country is supposed to stand for?

    I’ve concluded that you are simply young and ignorant. You couldn’t define “socialist” or “corporatist” or “neocon” or “libertarian” for that matter if your life depended on it. Come back when you’ve earned your GED. .

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_IW7WNR4BAQHLOUEPRKYMNYOLJA Jason

    So you thank the 26 republicans that voted against it, but you don’t bother to thank the 122 Democrats that voted against it? Douche bag

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_EMLFKLALZHF7EBYUQXHUHQOATQ Tony

    What a Dick!!!

  • Anonymous

    A flying shoe would have fit here.

  • Anonymous

    Why on Earth woud a Republican WANT to be called a “Defender of the Constitution”? They HATE every part of the Constitution except for the Second Amendment. And Rumsfeld? You’ve got to be kidding me. He should be spending the rest of his life with a bag over his head, hands cuffed to a chain around his waist, in Guantanomo. Chicken Cheney and Bushit should be in the cells next to him.

  • Jaimie11

    Don’t give up just yet, pinroot. The GOP and the neoconlibs are not ALL powerful. A large enough increase in the number of voters who don’t buy the BS anymore can change things. The secret to avoiding being co-opted is in maintaining heightened awareness and constant vigilance.

  • Guest

    Boy that’s a disgusting thought to go to sleep with:Dick Cheney at a conservative conference
    introducing Donald Rumsfeld.

  • parrots_abound

    I think you’ve totally missed the point….douchebag.

  • Anonymous

    They just don’t know.

  • Anonymous

    lrn 2 left of center social libertarian. newfriend.

  • Guest

    “I don’t know about you, but I would GLADLY pay higher taxes if, in return, it meant universal health care”

    I would too. But we’re talking about a government that wants the corrupt system we have, that is owned by the corrupt system we have. It’s time to admit that the government is your enemy in this fight.

  • Guest

    You posted it twice, so I’ll reply twice.

    The witness was called because he is a student of Austrian economics.

    Why don’t you go after Loyola University for employing him as an economics professor, instead of Ron Paul for asking him about economics?

    Using your line of thinking, the entire staff at Loyola are in a worse position than Paul.

  • Anonymous

    made me puke….we gotta long row to hoe yet…

  • Anonymous

    The corporate elite, and their political lackies better take notice. First Tunisia (where American forces were baptized to combat in WWII), Egypt (as soon as Mubarak falls), then, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan, etc…. until, finally, Americans decide they have had enough, and follow suit. Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld, are, in fact, international criminals. They are wanted for crimes against humanity. They cannot be sure they will not be arrested and placed on trial anywhere outside the boundaries of the United States and its few allies, like Britan and Israe. How shameful.

  • Anonymous

    THANK YOU Ron Paul supporters!

    I continue to strongly believe that Libertarians and Progressives agree on many more issues than they want to admit. And it’s in the interest of the power elite to keep us divided.

    As soon as we listen to each other, things will start to change in this country. In a good way.
    It won’t come from the top, it will come from us.

  • Anonymous

    Cheney and Rumsfeld are defenders of the constitution; warped sense of humor that came up with that one. Why don’t they just go away, they are so done if you stuck a fork in them it would bounce off.

  • Anonymous

    Take another look at the article above. They are at a CPAC event. Check out what CPAC stands for and who makes up their members. The whitewash Rumsfeld war crimes event is a Conservative rewrite of history.

    Conservatives are well known for rewriting history and they love wars and war criminals. They loved the fact that this nation was lied into a war.

    Why are they white washing Rummy the Dummy?

  • CozmicSeer

    I think the award should have been “Defender of the Constipation” as these guys are so full of crap that I can think it’s one explanation for their delusions of grandeur. When it backs up enough, it overflows into their brains and that seems to have been going on for a long, long time. Along with the award, they needed a lifetime supply of Ex-Lax(although with the excess they have, this may not be enough).

    When it comes to the Constitution, using it and the names of Cheney/Bush/Rumsfield in the same sentence seems oxymoronic.

  • Anonymous

    Bullshit. You pay some one to dig a hole one day and then pay to have it covered the next. The money gets circulated from the bottom up. They “can” fix unemployment: fix the infrastructure over here. The model is Germany’s “Kurzarbeit”:

    ” Germany has penned a success story with its human capital amid the recent recession defying forecasts for an unemployment surge and setting an example for other developed economies”..

    http://www.rttnews.com/ArticleView.aspx?Id=1296996

  • Anonymous

    I confide. It’s a blackmail. If we put them to work building our infrastructure for fast trains, solar, etc. with labor Unions we could maybe create an American “Kurzarbeit.”

    I don’t think making tear gas canisters for the egyptian army is the answer either. We are fucked….and I hate any wars.

  • Anonymous

    Here, sign this and go live on your compound and stay off the “internets”:

    The “goofy paul” Socialist-Free Purity Pledge
    I, ________________________________, do solemnly swear to uphold the principles of a
    socialism-free society and heretofore pledge my word that I shall strictly adhere to the following:
    I will complain about the destruction of 1st Amendment Rights in this country, while I am duly
    being allowed to exercise my 1st Amendment Rights.
    I will complain about the destruction of my 2nd Amendment Rights in this country, while I am duly
    being allowed to exercise my 2nd Amendment rights by legally but brazenly brandishing
    unconcealed firearms in public.
    I will foreswear the time-honored principles of fairness, decency, and respect by screaming
    unintelligible platitudes regarding tyranny, Nazi-ism, and socialism at public town halls. Also.
    I pledge to eliminate all government intervention in my life. I will abstain from the use of and
    participation in any socialist goods and services including but not limited to the following:
    ● Social Security
    ● Medicare/Medicaid
    ● State Children’s Health Insurance Programs (SCHIP)
    ● Police, Fire, and Emergency Services
    ● US Postal Service
    ● Roads and Highways
    ● Air Travel (regulated by the socialist FAA)
    ● The US Railway System
    ● Public Subways and Metro Systems
    ● Public Bus and Lightrail Systems
    ● Rest Areas on Highways
    ● Sidewalks
    ● All Government-Funded Local/State Projects (e.g., see Iowa 2009 federal senate
    appropriations–http://grassley.senate.gov/issues/upload/Master-Approps-73109.pdf)
    ● Public Water and Sewer Services (goodbye socialist toilet, shower, dishwasher, kitchen sink,
    outdoor hose!)
    ● Public and State Universities and Colleges
    ● Public Primary and Secondary Schools
    ● Sesame Street
    ● Publicly Funded Anti-Drug Use Education for Children
    ● Public Museums
    ● Libraries
    ● Public Parks and Beaches
    ● State and National Parks
    ● Public Zoos
    ● Unemployment Insurance
    ● Municipal Garbage and Recycling Services
    ● Treatment at Any Hospital or Clinic That Ever Received Funding From Local, State or
    Federal Government (pretty much all of them)
    ● Medical Services and Medications That Were Created or Derived From Any Government
    Grant or Research Funding (again, pretty much all of them)
    ● Socialist Byproducts of Government Investment Such as Duct Tape and Velcro (Nazi-NASA
    Inventions)
    ● Use of the Internets, email, and networked computers, as the DoD’s ARPANET was the
    basis for subsequent computer networking
    ● Foodstuffs, Meats, Produce and Crops That Were Grown With, Fed With, Raised With or
    That Contain Inputs From Crops Grown With Government Subsidies
    ● Clothing Made from Crops (e.g. cotton) That Were Grown With or That Contain Inputs
    From Government Subsidies
    ● If a veteran of the government-run socialist US military, I will forego my VA benefits and
    insist on paying for my own medical care
    I will not tour socialist government buildings like the Capitol in Washington, D.C.
    I pledge to never take myself, my family, or my children on a tour of the following types of socialist
    locations, including but not limited to:
    ● Smithsonian Museums such as the Air and Space Museum or Museum of American History
    ● The socialist Washington, Lincoln, and Jefferson Monuments
    ● The government-operated Statue of Liberty
    ● The Grand Canyon
    ● The socialist World War II and Vietnam Veterans Memorials
    ● The government-run socialist-propaganda location known as Arlington National Cemetery
    ● All other public-funded socialist sites, whether it be in my state or in Washington, DC
    I will urge my Member of Congress and Senators to forego their government salary and
    government-provided healthcare.
    I will oppose and condemn the government-funded and therefore socialist military of the United
    States of America.
    I will boycott the products of socialist defense contractors such as GE, Lockheed-Martin, Boeing,
    Northrop Grumman, General Dynamics, Raytheon, Humana, FedEx, General Motors, Honeywell,
    and hundreds of others that are paid by our socialist government to produce goods for our socialist
    army.
    I will protest socialist security departments such as the Pentagon, FBI, CIA, Department of
    Homeland Security, TSA, Department of Justice and their socialist employees.
    Upon reaching eligible retirement age, I will tear up my socialist Social Security checks.
    Upon reaching age 65, I will forego Medicare and pay for my own private health insurance until I
    die.
    SWORN ON A BIBLE AND SIGNED THIS DAY OF ____________ IN THE YEAR
    ______________.
    ___________________________ ___________________________
    Signed Printed Name/Town and State

  • Anonymous

    A Freudian slip on your part, you lazy asshole.

  • Anonymous

    A “Catch 22″. Let them rebuild our infrastructure with the help of our Labor Unions.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_7LCDHYIKZRKTFNDTIM6MOSCWN4 Nick Filicetti

    Let that be a warning that their days are counting down.

  • Anonymous

    Opposition to the wars and a monstrously large, unrestrained defense budget is the only intersection of the Libertarian and Progressive agenda. Beyond that there is no commonality.

    If you look at bullet-points on a website there is an appearance of agreement on some social and business issues but if you dig deep enough to find out the methods of accomplishing the goals it quickly becomes apparent that there is no similarity. Few if any progressives have faith that an unrestrained free market solves all problems including slavery.

  • Anonymous

    Donald Rumsfeld along with Dick Cheney and GWB implemented the recommendations of “A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm (commonly known as the “Clean Break” report) is a policy document that was prepared in 1996 by a study group led by Richard Perle for Benjamin Netanyahu, the then Prime Minister of Israel. The group included Perle, Douglas Feith, Wolfowitz and others. The plan advocated the invasion of Iraq, destabelizing Syria and eventually nuking Iran.

    Iraq became a quagmire followed by Afghanistan with a cost of billions and the deaths of thousands of Iraqis as well as US military and the crippling for life of young American men and women. Invading Iraq and Afghanistan were actions similar to what Hitler did in Europe, and which the Nuremberg Trial determined to be criminal acts. True American conservatives would never have advocated or allowed such criminal acts. WIKIPEDIA HAS AN EXTENSIVE FILE ON THE CLEAN BREAK.

    Kudos to the Ron Paul group.

  • Anonymous

    free markets also mean no more tax subsidies to large corporations.

  • Anonymous

    OH, and I love Johnny, and REALLY love Sweeney Todd, but not together….

  • Anonymous

    Don’t get all orgasmic over the very mild heckling. The new guys have done nothing but add to the crimes we are committing worldwide.
    Did anybody see the clip this am on HLN where Cheney said “sit down and shut up”? And where Trump said “Ron Paul can’t get elected”?
    Unusually divisive. IMHO it doesn’t matter, D or R, we are still screwed.

  • Anonymous

    He supported single payer but he didn’t hold out and voted for that Health Insurance Reform. We are told no more limits and no more pre-existing conditions and we can keep our kids on our policy(if you have one), but, can’t they charge anything they want for those supposed benefits ??
    I for one like the symetrey(sp?) of a Paul Nader ticket. Like many have noticed, those guys agree on a lot of important issues.
    Anti war tradition of the left?? Really?? A Nobel prize for a far right Democratic war-monger is validation for what?? Not anti war! The only difference I’ve ever noticed is the D usually tax and the R usually borrow to pay for the war, but the wars just keep on coming.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_SFAMFML2UZMRODMZOJMCMGSSKY calvin

    They both belong in Exile, or in Prison. Or Both!!!

  • Anonymous

    That’s what I like about this site – learn something new every day. Didn’t know who Karl Hess was. Find he’s an interesting character.

    One interesting tidbit:

    He passed on to Goldwater the phrase:

    “Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice; moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue”

    which he got indirectly from Cicero.

  • http://twitter.com/RavenWytch RavenWytch

    Donald Rumsfeld awarded the Defender of the Constitution award? I feel like I just stepped into the Twilight Zone. If either he or Dick Cheney is your hero, you need a serious mental evaluation. Pure evil – the pair of ‘em.

  • Anonymous

    We might have the op to vote for the lesser of 3 evils.

  • Anonymous

    time to bring back public hangings.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_7Y77MFIPRIRTA6LYW5YJYKUHXY shinydoug

    Nuremberg Nooses for NeoCons!
    “Conspiracy to plan a war of aggression is the supreme war crime.” This is an established part of international law and has universal jurisdiction. Therefore Cheney and Rumsfeld MUST HANG

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_E3JWQUVCXLK6DK5VHWRNZEBR2Q Magginkat

    I am thinking dirty rotten bastard but even that name is too complimentary for these vile, low-life war criminals. “Defender of the Constitution” my ass!

  • Anonymous

    If your machinery is large enough to handle the task, history can be rewritten. Make no mistake, that’s what the three stooges and their sychophants are focused on. The Texas school board’s text books will complete the cycle in future generations of adorable little brown shirts.

  • Anonymous

    That is undoubtedly the goal……………..our goal should be to tell the textbook buyers in our states and/or locally to refuse to buy these travesties masquerading as tools of learning truth.

  • Anonymous

    Liers and theives and totally unamerican self serving………..and so on.

  • Anonymous

    That would be a good conservative cost saving answer…………

  • Anonymous

    Guantanamo

  • Anonymous

    I agree with you lottakatz…..not so much with Bugs………and I love your avatar also

  • http://www.facebook.com/joop.v.deswaluw Joop Van de Swaluw

    War criminals for sure, and they must appear before the judges in the Haque. Give them the Bush treatment- arrest them as soon as they leave the American soil.

  • Anonymous

    A very large shoe.

  • http://www.facebook.com/joop.v.deswaluw Joop Van de Swaluw

    Govt. buildings on fire in Cairo!

  • Anonymous

    AMEN !! plus their assets should all be taken ……..along with their asses.

  • Ma’at

    Well done Ron Paul supporters, VERY well done.

  • Anonymous

    Thank you for mentioning that.

  • http://www.tommyjonestheband.com RantingTommy

    Establishment Left?

    O yeah, that’s that mythological thing the right wing corporate mainstream media made up.

  • Anonymous

    Yes it is………….But do you think he will admit to that??

  • Anonymous

    Did you see the recent Bush interview where he was asked if he would approve torture if he had it to do all over again? In response his words said “yes”, but his body language said “yea, I know I’m a total screw up”.

  • http://www.tommyjonestheband.com RantingTommy

    Ron Paul works for the same ideals as the GOP: transfer of wealth from the working class to the investor class.

    He is a con man. Don’t be fooled.

  • Anonymous

    Off to the secret prisons with you!

  • Anonymous

    In this instance as shown I agree ……………..however, the rest IS BS and what you say is true………talk about Hooverville redo……….I will NEVER vote Libertarian them try and undo all of the good that my parents and those before them fought for……from unions to SS to Vet Benefits etc……..Libertarians and their ideas can shove it.

  • Anonymous

    You EEEEEEEEEEDDDDDDDOOOOTTTT yourself…you do not know from Shinola.

  • Anonymous

    For certain treasons, that is the punishment that is required.

  • Anonymous

    These killers have NO SHAME. And yet your going to vote for the Republican party in 2012? People they have never left. It’s like Hitler returning to a forum in Germany, millions will turn out for him. You support them with tax dollar, they have free Government Health Care, Do YOU? Bush latest book was a failure, just nonsense from a goofball, making another buck. YOU know Bush, Cheney and Rumsie don’t do this for the money. EGO’s, they have tremendous EGO’s yet they killed 4000 American soldiers in Iraq. For What? Shame on them, shame on you if you support the GOP

  • Anonymous

    There is more cash in wars for the chosen with enough power to choose themselves.

    Socialized medicine IS the only civilized way to go. Oh no the S word that most resisters only have a cartoon image of and no experience of.

  • Anonymous

    I surely agree with your avatar. And yes you are correct.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KJJ4KEVT2Z5RDHTIRGJOUWL2EA Paul M

    The penalty for “Treason” is quite clear. Doesn´t mean incarceration for crimes against one´s own country, but it IS TREASON! all of us should know what a treasonous act entwines for those who have been president or part of the regime which willfully knew of the “treasonous crimes” and did nothing. Guilty by “agreement” to be involved…a sort of “one-eyed jacks” as an adopted attitude. These “three” slick, neocons, sell-outs and their “supporters of a Fascist, corporate america”, can´t believe within themselves that they have little to worry about from the american people. They know that the masses will also turn up their anger, but will maintain the one-eyed lock step obedience tradition thru FEAR (of reprisal), and will bark as usual, but will seldom if at all,”Bite”. They have absolutely nothing to worry about? Let´s make a commitment to prove them very, very wrong. Time is now, not next year, but NOW.

  • Anonymous

    When I was in Italy I quite surprised at the number of things which bettered the country that were done during Mussolini’s reign.

    I was told that was why Espresso was served in small cups at tables with no chairs so you could hurridly get back to work…………..the latter part sounds like the neocon USA.

  • Anonymous

    Exactly.

  • Anonymous

    People pooling their monies for themselves and all US citizens is not a hand out. It is common decency.

    Those who cry about their cash from sefishness, judgemental attitudes, stinginess, and lack of reason or respect for all of the people of our country disgust me.

  • Guest

    Good job Ron Paul Supporters! I would love to have been there to see the shocked faces of them “good ole boys” as they got shouted down. Priceless. :)

  • Anonymous

    If there were fans on this blog I would certainly fan you as a very sensible person with which I agree and is good at stating the truth :-)…Thank you.

  • Anonymous

    No

  • Anonymous

    My problem with rand is his simplistic view of the country. One idea he says is he wants the states to control education. If the states take control of the states they would lose federal funding for their local schools. I’m old enough to remember how far behind the schools down south were before the fed. gov got involved. Some states were farther behind than others and it usually went according to class. poor people and minorities had the worst schools, few supplies, books etc. If the states are responsible for what they teach no one would get the same education with the same facts etc.
    He may be a Dr. but I have worked with many Drs. with many specialties and there were some Doctors I wouldn’t send my worst enemy to. Just because some one has a MD doesn’t mean they are genius. I believe he is a mirror image of his voters. Just because he was voted into office doesn’t mean he is smart.

  • Anonymous

    Living/hiding in the swill of outhouse/Port-a-Potty basements, water boarding for these disgusting human waste trash bags and Bush 43, their idiot leader is not a fair remedy for these filthy things because this would cleanse their face’s.

    Allow them to struggle in their own human waste…forever.

  • Anonymous

    The march of the Fascist Right-wing on display. Cheney has no heart, literally, so it is no wonder he can stand in front of ignorant sycophants and smile. He caused the deaths of over 4400 US service people in Iraq for no goddamn reason, except he is a total mass murderer and enjoys inflicting pain on others. You know, the “small people” who go to war on the whim of big, important men like Cheney or Rumsfeld. They would never serve in a war, but then big important Fascists rarely do the fighting, they send in the stupid, ignorant masses to do their dirty work, then take all the medals and corporate cash that comes their way. A bunch of sickos, the lot of ‘em.

  • Anonymous

    I disagree with rands stance on abortion. He is anti abortion even in the case of rape and incest. He has no uterus so there fore he has no right to an opinion or to legislate against it. I wonder if his daughter, sister or mother were raped would he have that same opinion. It appears he has a need to control women, by legislating against them.

  • Anonymous

    Watched Feith at a conference on Politics in Egypt last week. I forgot who he was, but after 10 mins of his Obama bashing, one can see his GOP Bush political agenda. He is just one of the many snakes in the OLD GOP gang and they just don’t go away. Killers they are and hopefully they will pay their dues…soon

  • Anonymous

    and Rumsie had to Leave Paris last year, while vacationing. Google Rumsfeld, quick exit of Paris

  • Anonymous

    Just look at the parade of criminals at the 2011 Conservative Political Action Conference.
    Most of these speakers should have been in jail.
    But it seems like Obama and the democrats protect their OWN.
    This shows that the two parties really are one in the same Behind CLOSED doors and their speeches are really Propaganda BS.
    In the past 30 years the elected officials have moved the middle class back into the slave market interprise. We now longer have a voice in our lives or the future of our children..
    In the past 10 years they have totally destroyed the wealth & power of the middle class.
    We have become nothing but a number to them in determinding their wealth and power.
    They are alway setting up policies to help the Egypt citizens to rebuild their nation and jobs , while they continue to outsource and destroy ours.
    http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2048527,00.html

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_W6ETYUI754B6VQ6AIF63V24LXY Jim

    All of these people Rums, Cheney…were called the crazies in Ford’s admin. These guys are really diabolical in the truest sense. I hope America can wake up in time.

  • Anonymous

    The abortion issue is a difficult one. I don’t know what Rand thinks on it but I do know how Ron Paul thinks on the subject. That abortion rights belong at the state level (the federal government should not be involved, not there function) You have your views, the guy next door has his view, you don’t push your view on him and he doesn’t push his views on you, that’s freedom.

  • Anonymous

    My problem with education at the federal level is that one size doesn’t fit all. That a bureaucrat in Washington does not know what is better for a school than the parents and school officials. 80-90 % of all the money we spend (fed level) on education is eaten up by bureaucrats in the department of education, it would be far better if they just sent the money directly to the schools. I am old enough to remember that the education we got in the north pre 1980 was far superior to what we have now, just look at our international rankings.
    And just because you do not agree with him on these issues doesn’t make Rand a crazy goofball that needs med’s or what ever you ment in your original post.

  • Anonymous

    wrong

  • Anonymous

    I think his father has some good opinions, I find his son not to sharp. I wasn’t imposing my beliefs on anyone. I don’t care what he really thinks even though I disagree with him on just about everything. I was just expressing myself like everyone else on this site. I only get pissy when people try and impose their beliefs on me. Especially when it comes to religion and abortion and I don’ t understand the need for guns and war. But that’s just me.

  • Anonymous

    If as some experts predict the US of A becomes a ” banana republic” it will be due mainly to parasites such as Feith and their dupes. The more of them are exposd the better it will be for Americans who do not hold dual citizenships.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    “but the man has integrity.”

    The problem is not Paul’s integrity, but the fact that he thinks everyone else has integrity, and as such we don’t need to regulate industry. The reason we have so many of the industry (and “big government” agencies, like the FDA and EPA) regulations that we do is because it was proved over and over that the types that run industry are content to kill you if it makes them more money. “Free commerce” will end the concept of generally “free people”. Period. History has born it out over and over.

    If you _really_ want to assure freedom, educate the masses (with science and history), free the natural resources and end private ownership of the planet, and invest current resources in designing/building sustainable models, not profitable ones. http://www.thevenusproject.com and http://www.zeitgeistmovingforward.com are great places to start.

  • surgethis

    The conditions that installed these criminals are still in place … our rigged financial, political, media, system continues to crush the truth and protect it’s own interests. As long as it operates these vermin can delude themselves and pretend they are above the law. The truth is out there. We know what they did and who helped them do it. Beyond the war crimes they have committed they also facilitated the corporate takeover of our country. The people who are systematically misinformed still haven’t grasped that their country is gone. It’s not going .. it’s already gone.

  • Anonymous

    with Yoda poop!

  • Anonymous

    With Dog poop!

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    Unnecessary jobs.. like building roads, hospitals, power plants, water treatment facilities, police, firemen, …

    Your core issue is “taking from some”, you don’t want to contribute so you shield the multi-billionaires who are abusing you. At some point, you have to understand that having more money than you can spend and still wanting more is a mental disorder. No one needs to be a billionaire. You gain little to nothing in the real world from having $10 million or $2 billion, other than the ability to abuse more people.

    People devoting their lives to more riches, more baubles, are broken people. They are stuck in the past some 10,000 years ago when your life depended on hoarding. We don’t live in that reality any more, we’ve (most of us) evolved. Pursuing intellectual pursuits is better for you and our species than fighting tooth and nail to get that 4th gold plated toilet.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    “market rate” is a race to the bottom. If you support that, you support slavery.

  • Jaimie11

    That would be a good thing! Nice to see you again, PP.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    Our government is out of control because it is controlled by corporations and private interests, not the public. Pretending killing the concept will fix things shows you have no understanding of the core concept of government.

    It is government that prevents corporations from putting poison in your water because it’s cheaper than doing the right thing. Government “fails” when that same corporation buys a politician that installs a buddy to do the oversight while the politician changes the law to allow the corporation to poison you ‘legally’.

    You don’t fix our problems by destroying our shield, you fix it by turning the shield around the right way (remove corruption). Paul wants to destroy the shield (and undo thousands of years of societal evolution). I’m not on board with that.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    “It’s time to admit that the government is your enemy in this fight. ”

    But that’s the problem.. this is a semantics issue that never gets resolved. Government is not your enemy, government is YOU. The enemy is the profit-motive that has corrupted the PEOPLE calling the shots in the government. You fix that by replacing the corrupt people, not tearing down government. … I WANT the EPA out there telling corporations they can’t put poison in my water, and I want the EPA putting such painful fines on ones that do that they are on the brink of bankruptcy for it. The “current corrupted system” only fines them at ‘slap on the wrist’ rates making it cheaper to pollute than not.

  • http://twitter.com/miscellany101 miscellany101

    Ok, tea party people. Why don’t you get on board the Paul train, eh?

  • willymack

    So, the hideous truth about what monsters the bush crime family are is FINALLY becoming apparent even to the rethug-lovin’ rockheads, huh?
    It’s about goddam time.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    “It’s the same reason today you pay less for generics vs brand meds. ”

    Actually, you pay less for generics because patents expire and the profit-mongers can no longer extort you. Freeing up ideas/information is what lowers the cost.. Extortion is the general construct of most industry in a Capitalist system like ours. The resources are owned by a very few people, and they enslave the rest of us if we want any of them (like for living).

  • Jaimie11

    You are misusing the word ‘conservative’. Some people who are Neocons claim conservative values, but they are hardly conservative in the true sense of the word. Paleoconservatives support freedom and positive ethical behavior personally, publicly, in business and politics.

    But the people you are describing are from both sides of the political divide in the US, and in fact, the Neocon program of imposing democracy around the world has roots in liberal notions of the high value of democracy. Unfortunately, such imposition often requires weapons and mass murder, and supporting brutal dictators in the name of democracy.

    This is why I call them Neoconlibs or the War Party – to blame all on one side or the other only lends to their ability to go on unimpeded.

  • Anonymous

    One or two lone voices in a group of lemmys.My skin crawls hearing people chanting “USA USA” with the likes of Cheney on a stage.

  • Guest

    I had that same creepy feeling. WTF were they chanting “USA” for? I mean Dick is the most UN-American guy you could really hope to find.

  • Guest

    Wow, glad you finally caught up. Most Republicans have hated that administration as a whole for something like TEN YEARS now!! And in case you didn’t notice, the whole crowd was chanting and cheering for this murderer. Those aren’t Republicans cheering, those are NEOCONS and there is a big difference between Republicans and neocons in case you didnt know.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    “Taxation is theft.”

    this single premise, flawed and misrepresenting reality, is the problem.

    Nothing in life is free. Period. NOTHING. And if you want a society, you must contribute to it, period. If you do not want to live in a civil society, you are FREE TO LEAVE.. seriously.

    I don’t know who twisted your understanding of how life works, how society functions, or what it takes in terms of cooperation, but they did you (and this country) a huge disservice.

  • parrots_abound

    When Government aligns with Corporations and BAILS THEM OUT using public money, you do NOT have a Free Market.

    When you make laws that reward certain companies according to their WILLINGNESS to follow your political agenda or policy, you do NOT have a Free Market.

    When certain companies get preferential treatment because of their lobby money or contributions, you do NOT have a Free Market.

    When you make special tax rules for certain ‘established’ Corporations and Franchises such as McDonalds or Walmart, you do NOT have a Free Market.

    When you takeover a company instead of letting it FAIL, you do NOT have a free market.

    When you ignore the market and try to set prices according to preset ideas and trends, you DO NOT have a Free Market.

    When you have monopolies established by old money in league with Government to provide services and contract with ONLY them, you do NOT have a Free Market.

    True Free Markets let things FAIL and ALLOW competition.

    If you keep insisting that America employs “Free Market” , you are totally out to lunch.

    If you think this model is bought to you by “Capitalism”, you are a huge moron and should read more and speak or write LESS.

    Just because you have a a hard on for Libertarians and long for a Socialist Utopia because you have no grasp of economic models or history of debt driven societies, doesn’t mean you should speak as if you know what you’re speaking of.

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/6EX2KJ7LSZMDCBZWCH62Q7CABY Sandra

    You’re confused as hell. He wants the working class to be able to keep their money and NOT transfer it anywhere. Do you live under a rock?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    “I guess i’m just not civilized since I think only people who want services should pay for them…”

    “not civilized” isn’t accurate, but uneducated, unenlightened, failing to understand complex systems.. those certainly apply. For some reason, you seem to think your ideas are better than thousands of years of societal evolution. Regardless, you’re wrong.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    You’re wasting your time. History and Reality don’t compute with these guys.

  • Guest

    Too late. Remember when Bush & Co. stole the election?! Hanging Chad and all that bullshit. We failed, its over.

  • Guest

    Man, Cheney has lost a lot of weight, Maybe he has dick cancer! One can only hope.

  • Anonymous

    Until we take to the streets a la the Egyptians, we’ll keep getting the SSDD! Peaceful revolution NOW!

  • http://twitter.com/VaginaHedgeFund Lloyd Blankfein


    Reporting from the Washington, DC, event, McMorris-Santoro estimated that the number of libertarian Paul supporters had grown from previous years, an assertion backed by Bradfield, who suggested that “half” the attendees were libertarians like himself.

    Sure didn’t sound like it. Ninety percent of the crowd was chanting USA USA USA USA… blegh.

  • Anonymous

    Surgethis, you are absolutely right! The facts are known and most people are uninformed to the point of delusion.

    And yes, the sad fact is our country has been taken away from us, but most of us are too uneducated, jaded or otherwise working overtime so much they cannot see the plain facts in front of them. These are, as the old expression goes, “interesting times”.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    The “government” isn’t getting anything wrong (maybe the TSA, but I think the bigger fear is by plane owners not wanting to lose planes.. might want to verify what their insurance covers, I bet you find it doesn’t cover acts of terrorism.. hence, the TSA is being used by airlines to protect their investments).. corporatists have hijacked the government and are the ones getting it wrong (MIC, FED, etc).

    I see a lot of black/white rhetoric from you, but very little in the way of real or deep understanding.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001513126037 Heath Strock

    OOOO how proud I am to have wrote in my vote in 2008, Better make way for that 3rd party

  • Anonymous

    That’s true; Republicans don’t believe in the same thing the neocons believe in, they don’t believe in anything. They adopt any and all nastiness if they think it will win elections. Reagan’s racism, Bush’s fear mongering, Gingrich’s contract on America, culture wars, religious fanaticism, you name it, no matter what the consequences to Americans, as long as they can get elected. Who was it (maybe GBS) who said the trouble with democracy is you get the government you deserve?

  • Anonymous

    You nailed it-one can only hope

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    “Also would be the only politician to ever really want to do something to fix the FED.”

    More falsehoods. What about Kucinich, who joined with Paul about the Fed? or Sanders (the Democratic Socialist)?

    What’s amusing is everyone seems to think we have left/right on only one plank so it must be left vs right in all things.. but we have two planks… social and economic. Paul is left-social and right-economic, Kucinich/Sanders are left-social and left-economic. You can’t represent 4 directions with 2 parties… hence the two party lie and how effective it is at keeping everyone confused.

    I’m a left-left kind of guy.. Paul (and his followers) are left-right kind of guys, and typical conservatives are right-right folks. The reason we’re having “conflict” (us Socialists and you Libertarians) is over the economic scale.. and it’s the same conflict us lefties ™ have with Republicans on the economic scale..

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    He’s a “self certified” doctor (the real doctors won’t certify him), and he’s the Senator from Kentucky.. Kentucky.. seriously.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    “Why do liberals think they will fix the problem by giving it more scope and money, by upping the take? ”

    Again with the two dimensional thinking.. Liberals want to fund government to the extent it needs the funding to do its job. It says NOTHING about corruption. Real Liberals (and Libertarians, and probably a few Republicans) want to get rid of corruption.. one has nothing to do with the other… and perhaps that’s the problem. The “starve the beast” crowd seems to think you can starve out the corruption, yet then rarely want to address the corruption directly. Odd, that.

    And as far as “human nature” goes, there are very few things that are truly part of our “nature”.. desire to eat, desire to reproduce, desire to exist.. that’s about it. 99% of who you are is “learned”, not a dictate of your species, but a representation of your culture.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    I’d ask you to explain/justify/rationalize “self proclaimed Socialist.. you lose”, but I know you can’t.

  • Anonymous

    It was Cheney, telling America “…this Iraq war would not cost one cent of American tax dollars… the entire war would be financed with Iraq oil royalties…and, this war would not be another Vietnam…this war would not last more than six (6) months tops…”

    It was Cheney that went on T.V., assuring all of America “…this administration will NOT ever be found in contempt of either corruption or graft of any kind.”

    It was Cheney who assured America there will be no taxes whatsoever impounded upon it’s citizens to finance any war.

    It was Cheney who fought to keep any press/news print/pictures from any and all American press of our young Americans returning from Iraq in body bags…only to be overturned by the U.S. Supreme Court…just like Nixon and his Watergate tapes…corruption/lies/deceit.

    Well, just who profited from the death, the killing, the maiming of so many…Bush and his oil buddies/terrorists, Cheney and his Halliburton buddies/terrorists, Rumsfeld and his pharmaceutic/terrorist buds, Rove and his private personal career as a lobbying, butt licking, boot kissing, whining wimp of an american terrorist.

    Republicans…those who claim to be American’s leaders of choice, but can never be pointed out in any crowd as one or even addressed in silence.

    Will America never understand the propaganda Republicans use as their successful tools; lies, deception, cheating, corruption, graft, theft, sexual gratification…male to male/male to female, most now in or facing prison because of same, the latest being Christopher Lee, Republican rep /NY, resigned in shame.

    How about Neut Gingrich, Tom DeLay, Ted Stevens, Dan Quayle, Richard Nixon,”…I AM NOT A CROOK.”, Palin and her Tea Party wanna-bees…”I AM NOT A WITCH”…etc., etc., etc..

    And this family of idiots claim to be “leaders”…?

    Granted, same has since chastised, in words, some…but oh, so late.

    Where were these same idiots when their counter-points, the ultra-conservative evangelical right winged pungent mouths were destroying/dividing America with their vicious hateful bigoted racist verbiage…?

    As all now know, the Republican Party’s destruction has already pronounced it’s favors upon America and Her current fall from grace…why?,

    Because the Republican Party has been replaced w/a Black American President, so selected and chosen by the majority of American’s voters, that which the Republican Party has denied, in full and complete, based and configured within the few southern states of America, some still flying the Confederate Flag over their capitals.

    So. Carolina, Mississippi, Georgia, Tennessee, Florida, Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas, even into Ohio, Arizona, it is these American Terrorists that have chosen to repeal/reject all that Americas majority has elected…for a new and different path of basic survival.

    It is these American voters of choice being held hostage by the so very few ultra-right winged hypocritical bigoted evangelical conservatives that, for whatever reason, feel their agenda is wanted/demanded by, as Mitch McConnell, Senate Minority “Leader”, and John Boehner, Speaker of the House, both Republican nay-sayers of fact, consistently and continually refer to their agenda as; “…America has spoken and have elected/chosen ‘us’ as their collective spokesmen.”

    Truth: American’s who voted in the Nov. 2010 elections were less than 45% of the total qualified to vote.

    Of this of the 45% who voted, less than 32% voted for either the Tea Party, and, or, the Republican Party to carry on Americas needs.

    However, it seems the Republican Party, in total defiant arrogancy, continues to spell out it’s own selfish needs to propagated itself a never ending destructive life of deception.

    Has not any of the past Republican choices taught/convinced anyone the complete and total destruction of our America any of them will commit themselves to so as to gain wealth/prestige/power/corruption/graft, for them selves…each one individually?

    The Republican party is in dire destruction within itself as long as it continues it’s chosen path of travel…”we represent all of America…period.”

    So not true…The republican party will never be my voice of reason.
    Why…because it is so full of itself it thinks every and all things it thinks is best for all people and so will be mandated accordingly.

    Idiots…one and all.

  • Anonymous

    Our government sends billions every year to foreign governments just to buy influence. If Americans were to wake up and smell the coffee and follow the money they would be shocked! We send aid to everyone. Only it seldom gets to the people who need it, but to the greedy pigs who want it.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    “you are just tacking on administrative costs on top of those charges, ”

    and in the free market, beyond your personal control at all levels, you’re not only paying those SAME administrative charges, you’re ALSO paying PROFITS.

    The idea that the government (a functioning one, not the hijacked piece of shit corporate slave we have in the U.S.) would deny ANY life-saving treatment is absurd. It shows your true issue, that you’re paranoid and delusional. It is the PRIVATE INSURANCE COMPANIES that do that shit today, and it is the GOVERNMENT (even our hijacked one) that mandates treatment no matter what (emergency rooms must save your life first, ask about insurance later). Pretending like “the bureaucrats” would deny emergency care is absurd, ignorant, foolish, and fear mongering at it’s finest.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    What I find amusing is, paying into insurance is the SAME THING.. you’re paying someone elses medical bills, too. Insurance is about pooling the risk (just like single payer), but with a profit motive (and reason to let you die if they think they can keep the money).

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    Don’t forget that you can volunteer to help some and refuse to help others.. like how some churches only help you if you believe in their shared delusion.. so what about the rest of us? What about the black guy that needs help but the local whites don’t like blacks? .. the list goes on and on.

    These people have no concept of efficiency of scale. Nor do they care for the larger group demanding they not be abused by the few. Libertarians seem to want to be allowed to prey on whomever they can without interference.. so long as they are clever about their abuse, they could get pretty rich in a short amount of time, then check out. They are stuck in the Wild West and want to be the traveling snake oil salesmen.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    Looks like the final vote only had 4 Republicans.. Teabaggers didn’t really show a front on the vote, they just blocked the “trick vote”.. so what.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    No, actually.. the point, despite all the Paulite bitching, is that Dems generally care about protecting Liberties as well. Much more so than the right-wing in this country who just voted to extend tyrannical mindsets.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    You don’t have to have a free market for that.. you just remove subsidies and be done with it. It’s the large corporation’s hijacking that gets them our tax dollars, it has nothing to do with “free markets” at all. The issue, of course, is preventing corporations from having ANY say in the people’s government. Today, they own it. .. we must rectify that and take our government back.

    Oh, right, Libertarians want to destroy government.. mostly because they can’t seem to understand that the concept isn’t to blame, humans running corporations and the corrupt people they buy in government are the problem. We can remove corporate influence and corrupt politicians.. but once you dismantle the government, you’ll have a very hard time rebuilding it (it will cost a lot of money and time).. and you will want it rebuilt once the corporations take advantage of the lack of rules. They always have and always will .. and, in fact, that’s why we created governments in the FIRST PLACE.. to punish abusers.

  • Anonymous

    Most states are bankrupt or close to it and need help from the fed gov to fund those schools. clear the roads during winter [especially this winter], help fund the fire and police. If the states can’t afford these things then what? Do what they did in Tennessee when it was discovered the owner of a burning house hadn’t paid his bill for fire fighters so they just stood and watched it burn! The fed gov. is here to give support and structure and guidance. In fact I would pity some of the southern states if there wasn’t a federal gov. involved. It appears the southerners are a little slower to evolve………they absolutely need all the help thy can get.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    left/right are measurements along continums, not a ‘hoax’. We have the Two Party Lie, sure, but that has nothing to do with core ideologies. .. and the biggest reason we have the lie is most people think left/right covers 4 points when in fact, they are just measures along single concepts..

    We have economic and social policies, and that means we have 4 directions of support we can have. Two parties can’t represent that, period. There is left-left, left-right, right-left, and right-right. Left-left is Socialist/Liberal, left-right is Libertarian, right-left .. not sure what that’s called, but covers a lot of blue dog dems, then you have right-right which is neo-con/conservative land, and also includes some ‘right-leaning dems’..

    If you’re going to educate people, you might want to be a bit more accurate with your information.

  • Anonymous

    Right you are… A con man indeed. A wolf in sheep’s clothing. People are so desperate, they will grab onto anyone that sings their tune. He will transfer the wealth through the gold scam along with Alex Jones and his fear-mongering buddies.

  • Anonymous

    Then those states should follow North Dakota’s lead and have their own bank.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_of_North_Dakota
    get away from the rigged Federal Reserve – JP Morgan – Goldman Sach’s – Bank of America system.

    And the Federal government can give money to the states for education, they don’t need the department of education to eat up 80% of that money.

  • Anonymous

    Oh yeah… Ronny loves you, he cares about you Sandra, doesn’t want your money, and, of course, any idiot should know that RP is looking out for your and all your friends’ best interests… He’s just a loving guy, what can you say?

  • Anonymous

    Oh, and your country is not run that way? Where do you live? It’s not the USA that is a joke it is the bloody Mafia-Banksters, etc. And they run more than the USA you self righteous so and so… No war criminals in your own country? You have to come pick on ours? Leave it out mate…

  • Anonymous

    Wow, denny… What an effort you put into that one… I support you free speech efforts! you are one of the deserving…

  • Anonymous

    Love is Free… And without Love, where would you be now?

  • Anonymous

    RP is just using the justified rage against the warmongers for his own personal political/financial benefit. Don’t be fooled again. He doesn’t give a donkey’s bum about other people that won’t buy into his fairy tale world. Ron Paul is for Ron Paul, and that is about it.

  • Guest

    I never said it was controlled by the people. We agree. Our government is owned and unfixable.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5QR7LWWOG7YD64W52TBUQ3RDEM Teddy

    Well, I have to agree, the Patriot Act is unconstitutional; so, giving him an award for defending the US Constitution is a lie. Maybe they meant, like one Governor promised, for the award is actually for defiling it; they just misspoke.

    http://weeklyreflectionsofchrist.blogspot.com/
    http://www.facebook.com/teddyhcraig

  • Anonymous

    How about Karl Rove for a Government Ethics Prize?

  • Anonymous

    Mindless drones shouting USA USA!

  • Anonymous

    Ditto… Back in 2001… That is when the revolution should have taken place. Now what? Only hot air…

  • Anonymous

    This is a case of doing the right thing but for the wrong reasons…

  • Anonymous

    You’re arguing that a truly competitive market exists. You seem to live in a fantasy world where corporations are eager to undercut each other’s pricing in a race to the bottom.

    There are two places to decrease operating costs that could be passed on as savings to insurance purchasers. You can a) lower your profit margins or you can b) lower your administrative costs though efficiencies in operations [staffing, tech..] and salary.

    Facts are facts. Private insurance runs overheads of 15-35% from what I’ve seen. I’m happy to hear about other examples if anyone has them.

    Your solution is to hope that we can move away from a system that exists and already has what you’re looking for (medicare may have fraud but it’s far far more efficient than private health insurance) in favor of a system that currently operates in opposition to your goals.

    We have a pretty vibrant private health insurance industry. Just through my work, I’ve got an option of 5 insurance options and I could go out and buy coverage from many more in my state. On matters of cost and efficiency, why then is private health insurance such a failure? There are plenty of competitive market forces in place right now.
    The right wing ideologues would have us believe the free market is bending over backward to provide cheaper health insurance for us, rather than what we actually see. Don’t believe your lying checkbooks!
    With private insurance companies running such high overhead and turning massive profits we had 20+% rate hikes in several states last year. If you’re a free marketer on faith, you’d expect to see prices fall, as operational overhead fell because competition demands innovation (efficiency) in the market.. but it doesn’t.

    Insurance, like fuel and other markets.. operates in a state of passive collusion. It’s not about undercutting your competition on price.. it’s about only pricing yourself low enough to attract ENOUGH customers so your profit margin * tansactions will maximize your profit.
    This is why gas stations ( I used to work at one ) drive around and look at each others signs every morning. They don’t care about undercutting everyone.. they don’t think ‘I can go this low.. and still make a profit. They care about being roughly in balance with everyone else and making the most per gallon possible. As a business, I can easily price myself lower, get more sales, and make less total profit. That’s bad business.

  • http://www.rawstory.com/ Stumptownhero

    Your honor I would like to call as my next witness Mr. Nippit!

    Mr. Nipit can sumarize for the World Court the DIRECT involvement of former Vice Presidnet Cheney in the misleading of the American public in the case of going to war aganist Iraq.

    Yes….see above

  • http://www.rawstory.com/ Stumptownhero

    Do not confuse social structure for economic structure!

    Free market capitalism and socialism have and can coexist! As a matter of FACT the more socially stable a population is the more profitable they are fore the free marketers.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_RT3XX4DFKZ2AD7JHO3D3PZ7G4M ChrisK

    That whole administration should be on trial for war crimes, and for 9/11.

  • http://proudprimate.com Proud Primate

    Hi Jaimie —

    yes, I’m still here. What do you think of Egyptian people-power? When I saw the tweet at 11:34 of the resignation, I went to google to find this image of Young Egypt (50% are under 25, and they are tech and web savvy!), printed two copies landscape full page, and taped them inside my rear seat side windows.

    May this revolution someday make it to the USA!

  • AnzaSummer

    Maybe Dick had his duck huntin’ gun with him.

  • Anonymous

    And how are the war crimes of this administration any different???

  • http://www.rawstory.com/ Stumptownhero

    Since the early days of the Bush administration GOP staffers have been trained to drown out any dissent with the USA chant. We rarely got to hear this tactic during W’s reign of terror because his crowds were so heavily screened.

    The phrase was chosen for two reasons. #1 When and if a clip of the event is played on TV the chant will convey the patriotism of the crowd and portray the candidate in a more positive light. #2 Many people in a partisan crowd will willingly join in if they are attempting to drown out a voice of dissent.

  • http://www.rawstory.com/ Stumptownhero

    It’s not gone until Fox News tells me its gone! Damgumit!

  • Anonymous

    Republicans love to chant “USA USA”. That is, when they’re not holding Confederate flags and singing “Dixie”.

  • http://www.rawstory.com/ Stumptownhero

    The 2000 appointment of Bsuh WAS the revolution/coup. Now we need a counter revolution!

  • http://www.rawstory.com/ Stumptownhero

    Well said JS. Now we just have to move the “dot” back to the left left quadrant from the right right quadrant!

  • Anonymous

    Good one stump…

  • http://www.rawstory.com/ Stumptownhero

    How can any thinking person have faith that unrestrained/unregulated markets create anything but chaos after witnessing the past 10 years and reading about the 1920′s?

    The Libbers are living in lala land if they think we can leave our society to the economic law of greed! Hell even Sir Alan Greenspan told Congress last year that that was a pipe dream!

  • Anonymous

    Another good one from Stump… It ain’t over till Glenn and his buddies say so. Whatever “it” is.

  • Anonymous

    Discontented Americans? Legalize Pot! even cocaine! but lets not have discontented Americans in this perfect Democracy! America’s corrupt corpocracy lost Egypt today. Who will they lose tomorrow, and in the days to come? Will a pan-Arab union form a theocracy? Lebanon, Yemen, Jordan, Syria, who next to abdicate, move away from the American corpocracy, the nuclear bomb threat, the sickening murder of the Iraqi people for their oil?
    Ron Paul suggests a gold standard, over and above the corrupt, devalued fiat, over-manipulated American sawbuck, and he is at least partially correct in his notions.
    His supporters realize that where there is a very bad smell, there is usually something rotten! Even George Bush shies away from travel to Switzerland, where he stands good chance, and for good reason, to be arrested for war crimes!
    Are we witnessing the first chinks in the armor of the American Empire? Do we see the sun setting on the last, greatest, Caucasian empire the world will ever know?
    Who will champion democracy when this great corpocracy, whore to the world, dies?
    What will happen to the American dollar when the Chinese Sages call in their markers? Who will borrow the paper money the Feds are printing, money without work for it to represent, without value? How will the corpocracy, with its books balanced on the backs of the unemployed, unemployable, proletariat manage to live in luxury? How far, the distance from an unemployable peon to an executive’s wage? The same distance defines the politicians stable position, even in Egypt, but not so for the mesmerized propagandized Yankee Doodle? For how long will this be? Is America failing as we speak?

  • Anonymous

    I guess you could say Mr. Nippit really nipped that one in the bud, eh?

  • Anonymous

    Actually, for what it’s worth, there are several differences I can think of 1) Bush stole two elections, whereas Obama won the majority fair and square (might not have been a war if he hadn’t stolen the elections). 2) Bush opened Pandora’s box of wars, and left an enormous mess for whoever was to replace him. 3) Bush raped the economy (for his greedy war), after being dealt a good hand by Clinton (economically speaking). And…

  • Anonymous

    Huh? Could you please clarify your comment… Sorry, never mind, I got it.

  • Anonymous

    Stump, you knocked that one down with one good swipe.

  • Anonymous

    Alan Greenspan was THE biggest enabler of WallStreet banksters/gaangsters who took this economy down and made $trillions doing it.He made hundreds of billion$ himself on it, so I wouldn’t be paying much attention to anything that comes out of his evil mouth!

  • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

    Defender of The Constitution…if CPAC wasn’t a vast circlejerk where the good ole boys buttpat each other all day whether they reek of failure or not…that award might mean something ironic…but since CPAC is a neo-con version of the Grammies where any shit sandwich that flopped onto the scene backed by millions to guarantee success no matter how many people hate it can get a trophy anyway…not so much.

  • Anonymous

    yes, shadowstats.com, the site warns about that nigerian hyper-inflation that we’re due to have anytime now,.. in the 70s, no 80s, no 90s, no 2000s, no 2011 is clearly the year when we’ll have “hyper inflation”.
    Here’s an excerpt from the Hyperinflation 2010 report which is prominently linked on their site.

    “Please Note: Given less than one month before the New Year and the possible breaking of the hyperinflation crisis in the year ahead, I have entitled this “Update 2010.” The report is intended to replace the Hyperinflation Special Report of April 8, 2008, which was published post-Bear Stearns but pre-Lehman, pre-TARP, pre-recession recognition and pre-2008 election. Nonetheless, the outlook has changed little. In turn, the April 2008 report updated and expanded upon the three-part Hyperinflation Series that began with the December 2006 SGS Newsletter.”

    What do they say about doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results.

    Congratulations on your profit in silver in gold. Many people made a lot of money in their homes back in the early 2000s too because we had a bubble.

    Please forgive me if I generalize a bit here…
    The problem with many libertarians is that they have trouble grasping complex systems. You think gold has intrinsic value because you can hold it in your hand and it’s heavy and pretty. The bottom line is, aside from its industrial applications (and there are many), gold has value only because people believe it has value. American paper money has value because people believe it has value.
    If you thought about it for a while, you’re realize that gold is just as much a fiat currency.. not in the literal sense that someone (a state, a king..) proclaims it but in reality just as much because we (the population) simply collectively proclaim it.
    At the end of the day, it is an interesting metal (very ductile, malleable, conductive, non-reacitve) but the vast bulk of it’s value is completely arbitrary.

    Gold was worth $150 an ounce in 1975. $640 in 1980. $354 in 1985. $270 in 2000.. and it’s going for $1300 an oz today. In concrete terms, what has changed in our world (other than our perception of the intrinsic value of a metal) that justifies gold being valued at 4.5x the value we saw 10 years ago? Are there new industrial processes that require the use of vast quantities of gold?
    No.. it’s fake value. It’s a meaningless bubble caused, in part, by the paranoid right being told by charlatans that the world is ending. Its worth over $1300/oz for the same reason that people send Glen Beck’s advertisers $50 for a backpack full of survival seeds.

    Here’s a more concrete question for you though.
    If we were to return to the gold standard, how would we do that? A one-to-one relationship of gold to dollar would mean we would have to hold a dollar of gold for every dollar of wealth in the US.. correct? ..just like the good old days of silver and gold certificate dollars.
    The estimated household and non-profit wealth in the US in 2009 was about $55 trillion.
    At today’s rate, how much gold is there in the world? As near as I can determine, the value of every ounce of gold ever mined is valued about about $6.7 trillion.
    The wealth of the US, let alone the world, has outstripped the amount of gold we have.. even at the current inflated rates.
    What would happen to the world economies if we, the US, tried to buy up enough gold and silver ore to back all of our currency? How much would your electronics cost if nations began to hoard every microgram of gold? Could you even buy a computer chip?

    la la land. enjoy it.

  • Anonymous

    I doubt it. Americans have been mollified much more than these nations. Bread and Circuses.
    The real problem is, too many Americans don’t even know it could be better. They’re the same people that sneer at Europe, ignorant of how we compare in quality of life metrics. (don’t get me wrong, I’m not idealistic enough to believe Europe doesn’t have serious problems).

    Another quick point.. I’m not sure I’d put Pakistan in that list. Their dynamic is much different than Egypt. If they did have a popular uprising, I suspect it wouldn’t end the way we’d like. Beck’s fevered dreams of another islamic state might actually come true.

  • Anonymous

    Fairy Tale world? like what, peace? Civil liberties? The end of crony-capitalism? Individual rights? The rule of law? Has Obama not used the ‘justified rage against the warmongers’ to get his skinny ass into office? And now that he’s there, is he not a warmonger for increasing troop levels beyond 20,000 of that which Bush had in place in the middle east? Is he not a warmonger for giving himself permission to assassinate American citizens without due process, for expanding drone attacks into Pakistan and Yemen, killing thousands of innocents, for keeping Guantanamo open, and turning a blind eye on torture? And was Ron Paul “in it” for Ron Paul when he voted against the Iraq invasion and the Patriot Act almost a decade ago? Back when only his district even knew who he was? Look, I know you want to come off as some smartypants cynic but a Carlin ye are not.

  • Guest

    The democratic party is also full of lies and deceit. All the elected leaders democratic and republican and lobbyists lie in bed together in our nations capitol and create the duopoly we all enjoy to watch on our beloved tv’s. republicans, democrats is all just a fucking parade as the PTB create their new world order. Where would you like your bar code? On your hand or forehead. Don’t worry, you can’t see it with the naked eye except in a certain light.

    If you beleive that the lobbyists and elected leaders in dc are on the up and up I feel sorry for you and for everyone else including my self because that means we have ALL been successfully divided.

    You want Truth and fairness in our government? Get the lobbyists out of the District of Columbia

  • Jaimie11

    Of course they hate him. Obama is rightly hated by people who value freedom.

    People who think only Republicans are bad, well, they are partially blind.

  • Anonymous

    I agree with everything you said.
    Not sure who you’re addressing though.

    The next step is, do we want a truly free market?

    What’s interesting is that you point out that government interference is antithetical to a free market as are monopolies (the latter a point Free-Marketers like to forget) but regulation is required to deter the formation of monopolies.
    In a truly unregulated marketplace, corporations will inevitably rise to the top of their market (there’s always a #1) though honest innovation or other means and they’ll then have the power to influence the market and gain monopoly.

    What a conundrum. We need to trample the free market.. just a bit.. to save the free market.

    It’s possible the biggest disagreement between me and the people who call themselves free-marketers is that they tend to believe the government is the biggest threat to the market. I believe the market is the biggest threat to the market.

    I don’t want my government to destroy the system, I want it to protect the marketplace.. so the 800lb gorillas can’t stomp down competition and innovation.

  • Jaimie11

    That’s what I don’t like about you Pag. You’re a rabble rouser. You have no integrity. You just hate what you believe you oppose – you oppose it out of habit – you really have no idea what it is.

  • Guest

    Wow! You sound so fucking smart! I’m in awe…

  • Anonymous

    **Cheney and Rumsfeld should spend eternity in just such a state; mocked and ridiculed.

  • Guest

    Same with democrats. It’s like good cop – bad cop. The bad cop tortures us with policies that would make mussolini salivate and the good cop comes along and does the same, you just aren’t aware of it because they are sneakier. republicans are in the open about their shit and the democrats slink around saying one thing in public trying to make you feel relieved and doing the opposite.

  • Guest

    if it’s republicans you speak of… don’t forget democrats were in on it too.

  • Guest

    Yes, he is so transparent. He was the beginning of Americans looking for their own stupidity to govern them.

  • Guest

    uhhh, bush treatment would be rendition

  • Guest

    split… it doesn’t matter how. As long as it’s divided. In fact… the more the merrier.

  • Anonymous

    Oh they can co-exist alright, it just can’t last. The biggest benefactors of socialism are the Wall St. banksters and multi-nationals. I am curious how you quantify “social stability” and how it pertains to wealth redistribution as per your “FACT”? Frankly, I don’t know how socially stable a bankrupt nation can be. Logic and reason tell me that instability occurs greatly with financial distress. As for free markets, we haven’t been given an example of true free markets anywhere in the world in our lifetime. Socialism however, is a PROVEN failure since the Fabian model has been in place globally for almost a century now. So, at the edge of the event horizon, shall we continue with a philosophy we know to be a failure, or shall we trust in people and the individual and attempt a truly free market capitalist society, which has not been honestly attempted as of yet?

  • Jaimie11

    Revolution! Let it take its natural course. I have a feeling we might be the last to revolt, once there are no more countries who can fall to us. Imagine a globe full of wide awake people who can never be oppressed again. You may say that I’m a dreamer…

    And the more the internet is available throughout the world the better.

    These two photos moved me, well, to tears. The first is a child in Tahrir Square, the second a Muslim man kissing a Coptic Christian – especially moving in the knowledge that the secret police had done the Church bombings using a nasty British/American divide and conquer technique.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41350012/displaymode/1247?beginSlide=52&beginTab=2

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41350012/displaymode/1247?beginSlide=4&beginTab=3

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/NOZNKTI6HAEMMIGFGPGHPRYSLI DaleF

    Karl Marx came up with the idea of The Contradictions of Capitalism. This idea is that in a free market some players come to dominate and monopolize the market achieving a concentration of wealth and disproportionate political and social power(http://bitbucket.icaap.org/dict.pl?term=CONTRADICTIONS%20OF%20CAPITALISM). I think it is obvious Marx’s analysis is spot on. The problem is that the remedies suggested by his works led to totalitarian regimes that squelched unfettered free markets even more than capitalism itself. I suppose what came out of Marxism were structures that did not recognize that free markets were the best thing ever to provide goods and material for society and that perhaps they were intrinsic to freedom and liberty itself. I think at this point in history the consensus is pretty much for markets over command economies. Of course, as stated, the problem and paradox of free markets is that they inevitably morph into monopoly capitalism. Meanwhile just a few generations before Marx, this was an experiment called the USA. This was the first modern state to base its Gov’t on liberty, freedom and rights. Both Progressives and Libertarians, unlike the rest of the hoodwinked body politic, have figured out that the problem is the domination by the oligarchic monopoly capitalists. The question before us is how do we bring down this erstwhile Mubarak that is Regime USA? Will the people achieve class consciousness and bring down their oppressors ushering benevolent and equitable governance? This is a leftist cliche that is laughable in regards to the USA but maybe you can argue it just happened in Egypt. Or does remedy lie with sound money as per constitutional principles and monetarist policies? The Libertarians would argue this would prevent manipulations by would be monopoly capitalists. I am a pessimist so I don’t have too much faith the socialist idea will come about and have yet to study the libertarian solution enough to come to an opinion about it.

  • Anonymous

    Why didn’t they arrest Cheney & Rumsfeld?

  • Anonymous

    That was priceless! Ha ha! Too bad it didn’t cause his pump to seize. That would have made my day even more.

  • parrots_abound

    Yes, mixed economies CAN thrive, and they have. We lived in one for years…America. In fact MOST economies in “advanced” nations employ both. True “Socialist” economies are rare, about 4 left in the planet.

    But we haven’t employed an Austrian form of Free Market economics here, it’s never been done, and the Free Market hasn’t been tried in it’s strictest sense. See my response above.

  • parrots_abound

    In a Free Market, Corporations would have NO CHANCE at monopolies. Because competition would keep prices down and profit would be for those with better products, service, management, and ingenuity.

    A controlled market with Government intervention is what HELPS these people split off from the rest of the pack with guaranteed profit.

    Take for instance the Banks. In a true Free Market, they would have been allowed to fail. Iceland only knew this wisdom AFTER their banks failed, and now they are building toward a recovery.

    We on the other bailed out private institution who privatized their profits and socialized the losses.. That’s FASCISM….not Free Market.

    Look at all the most successful companies which have locked others out. The Government always gives them a blessing, starts them, employs them as third party, takes donations from them for campaigns, gives them personhood, or they are multinational with no allegiance to us.

    There are few fixes that the Government can do, but they AREN’T doing their job, so what good are regulations if not being used. The Government only needs to stick to a handful of rules and the rest would be up to us.

    The Government claims to love Entrepreneurship yet it does everything in it’s power to screw entrepreneurs and give those with the most money the biggest breaks. The Government ALLOWS Monopolies for some, yet claims infringement for others. The Gove is THE PROBLEM here. They’re in league with many of these bastards.

    This is Fascism.

    Take BP a multi-national company. Obama helped them LIE about the spill, the costs is ours in the end, the pollution, everything. They even employed STATE police to make special rules and have arrest powers of their own. What FREE MARKET is THAT?????

    A Free Market would have told them to pack their crap and raise their cap for damages and go bankrupt if they couldn’t carry the brunt of the costs. Free Markets reward competition and level the field and bury the failures. That’s the way it should be, but we REWARD failures and skew the field in the meantime.

    This is NOT a fair market at all…and not free.

  • parrots_abound

    Exactly, I couldn’t have said it better.

    We are on the edge of the horizon and wondering if we should employ more Socialist models, or give Free Market it’s TRUE shot.

    The Europeans are really seeing that Socialism has failed and a lot of their policies are changing toward market driven with little Government intervention and entitlement programs….

    And after all the protests and revolutions going on, they are really starting to get away from “STATE” hands in a lot of things. The STATE is the enemy, we are the creators and authors of our finances, not them. Or at least we should be.

  • parrots_abound

    No actually the article here was about Ron Paul, which led to me mentioning the “Tea Party” people and how many voted against it, after Kucinich’s great speech on it.

    It was welcomed change which was surprising to me, so I mentioned it in context with RON PAUL.

    And for that I got called “douchebag”.

    But now since it’s mentioned, thanks EVRYONE who voted against it, maybe I should have just said at first, but I don’t think I deserve being called DOUCHEBAG for thanking Tea Party elites for going out of their box.

    Do you?

  • parrots_abound

    And fuck yourself asshole.

  • http://proudprimate.com Proud Primate

    Very moving, both. Do you have links to the knowledge you adduce? I have been suspicious from the beginning, but don’t have much except instinct.

  • Anonymous

    Chants of USA! USA! must mean someone told the truth, therefore needs to be drowned out by idiots.

  • Jaimie11

    The bombings? Yes, let me look for them. It may be a while as I’m about to log off – got things to get to.

    Wait, here it is – http://www.aina.org/news/20110101232613.htm

  • Anonymous

    i like the originality, but hellfire damnation will do just fine for the rumsfeld cheney war pigs. . thank you

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_RT3XX4DFKZ2AD7JHO3D3PZ7G4M ChrisK

    If the American people really knew how they were being screwed by their own government than maybe we would revolt like in Egypt. Never mind we are too fat, too lazy, too stupid, and too content to do anything. I wonder if we found out that if our leaders (JFK, MLK, RFK) were killed by the right wing crime family would we do anything? What if 9/11 really was a false flag operation, ie Gulf of Tonkin, would we do anything then? Well?

  • http://www.whorunsgov.com/User:xxxMadam xxxMadam

    PIMPS!! Pimp My War!
    http://www.defraudingamerica.com/robin_head.html
    XXXVegasMadam

  • Anonymous

    The Lincoln Memorial is a monument to Lincoln. Richard Cheney is a war criminal. These truths are self evident.

  • Anonymous

    Cheney and Rumsfailed, both traitors to America.

  • overdoneputaforkinit

    The Egyptian revolt was finally started by rising food prices on a population with 40% poverty rate. People will go along to get along up to the point they can’t survive under the situation. Real revolts do not spread and survive on ideological motives alone.

  • Anonymous

    No, I am no Carlin. But I don’t believe Ron Paul is Jesus.

    Obama lied his way into the WH and he is now just as guilty as his predecessor – agreed.

    Obama also used a supposed “nay against the war vote” to get into the WH (if I remember correctly).

    When people told me with a sparkle in their eye that they were going to vote for Obama, I told them, I hope I’m wrong, but I didn’t believe a word of it. They cried and moaned and defended their “savior”. Turns out I was unfortunately right.

    Now, the Ron Paul people are clinging on to their “savior”, and I say the same to them. I hope I am wrong, but I don’t believe a single word. He is dirty rich. Sorry, I don’t believe he really cares about much more than his glory and his bank account. I like a lot of the things RP says too. They sound great. I like the way he stands up to the evil bullies. But, I don’t believe he is laying all his cards on the table. I can’t prove it, it’s just a hunch – maybe I am too cynical – but I do believe he has a hidden agenda – something to do with gold and silver and deception.

    When people voted for GWB, I said, why would you vote for him, you didn’t like his daddy, what makes you think he’s going to be better? They did it anyway.

    So, GWB sucked up the hope of the righties and divided the righties and infuriated the lefties. Now, Obama is sucking up the lefties and dividing them and infuriating everyone. It’s now time for someone to suck up the Independent/Libertarians and divide them, thus Ron Paul. Again, I hope I’m wrong, but that seems to be the way the cookie is crumbling.

    Problem is, these guys are not really in charge. They answer to behind the scene forces. So, how can any of them really change anything without becoming a monster dictator? Isn’t that what it would take to unite the hopelessly divided United States?

  • Anonymous

    Obama has joined the group of war criminals by virtue of his willful and cowardly refusal to honor his pledge to uphold the constitution of the United States by obstructing the investigation of Bush, Cheney and the others in the Bush administration who are clearly guilty of crimes against humanity.

  • Anonymous

    At least the US has a few people with an IQ over 0. Both of them should be hung just as those in WW II.

  • Guest

    I awoke this morning at 3:00 a.m. and was thinking how in the world anyone could allow bush and his group (lawyers included) to continue walking around as free men. How anyone would allow such programs as rendition and torture to be part of this country’s policy is like a bad dream. The disconnect in this country towards the fact you or anyone else could be walking along and then suddenly grabbed, hood thrown over head and taken somewhere to perhaps never return to society again, and if you did you’d be profoundly changed. It seems bush and his people and the people behind the scenes who have openly created such programs are actually trying to create threats to the world by being so despicable. It is infuriating to know such a thing could happen to anyone. A rev0luti0n is happening… and it’s because of exactly this sort of behavior by our government that is causing it.

  • Guest

    Revolution but to what end. The ptb are not going to allow anything untoward happen to their policies. They think, let them have their revolt and after things will be the same with a different facade.

    I believe someday their will be some sort of quantum awakening but my cynicism doesn’t see it happening any time soon. I’m sure the internet will help to bring about this revolution of spirit and mind as people relate, but again, when? Hopefully in our lifetime. I find so many people to be ignorant and mean to one another in these forums if it’s any kind of a barometer we still have a LONG ways to go.

  • Guest

    And about those photos. It would seem the MSM being run by “people” might not be able to ignore such Truth as seen in your photos and in fact be the very thing that galvanizes this worldly revolution of Love.

  • Anonymous

    Self delusion is the only reason I can come up with.

  • Anonymous

    Thank you, Nice looking dog you have. If I could have gotten my cat(s) to sit still lovely Johnny may have had to be happy with being my desktop instead of my avatar.

  • Anonymous

    They just HAD to make it a musical- grrrrr.

    Sweeny ended up my avatar because the story is abut justice, not necessarily the law but justice.

  • Anonymous

    That would be a good thing but an unrestrained free market is an all devouring monster IMO and most people would just be Kibbles.

  • Anonymous

    Yea’ you pretty well well nailed it, people have no idea what a lack of government would be like; it would be Dystopian. The problem is that the government is completely unresponsive to th real needs of the citizens and country and I don’t think that’s going to change soon, the ballot box doesn’t change it any more. I’d die happy to see crowds demanding reform in the Capital mall the size of Egypt’s.

  • Anonymous

    I can’t believe all the comments and backbiting about titles! You argue minutia when mincing and dicing the fine details, and get absolutely nothing accomplished. “Neo-con”, “Paleo-conservative”, Republican, Democrate, yadda, yadda, yadda, YAWN!

    This is the real problem. If you can’t get past all your differences, when will you ever unite and say NO to everything that is against freedom?!
    Refuse to go to war as a whole!
    Refuse to pay taxes as a whole!
    If we all stuck together and did that as AMERICANS/HUMANITARIANS, there’d be nothing to argue about! Those two words are what we should be calling ourselves. Period.

    Lastly, I’m glad that group of libertarians called a spade a spade, and I hope this keeps happening to expose the global elitist MF-ers who think we don’t see their charade. They can all go choke and die on their own vomit in their sleep!
    Have a nice day! :)

  • Anonymous

    Lovely johnny is so…..lovely.

    My dog, Roxanne, is 15. She had cancer at 1 and is a good companion and a real survivor. She did have to pay for it with a leg and a shoulder but she is a sweetie and does fine.

  • Anonymous

    Your pup is lucky to have someone that was willing to stand by her. I had to put down a kat in December due to cancer (3rd occurrence) and she had a good 6 months after the last diagnosis and a couple of years between then and the previous diagnosis/treatment. Roxanne is a tripod, as was my first kat- after her illness Tripod became her name and she came when called. She was a good kat and is still missed :-) It’s amazing how well critters adapt to illness and limb loss, no time for whining or being a sore loser, they just (have to) get on with life. Our politicians should be just half as nobel. You and Roxanne have a good night and I’ll probably see you around Raw again.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QZMIRSYQXISJ76RHYHL64K7XAU Mauro

    Rumsfeld and Cheney are BOTH war criminals and should be arrested and prosecuted for their crimes. I’m proud that when Rumsfeld came in disgrace to his home in Taos, New Mexico (which we wish he wasn’t here anyway), no matter where he went in Taos, people refused to serve such a despicable person who authorized torture. He was treated as the criminal he is. Now let’s send Rumsfeld, Cheney and Dubya out of the country so they can be arrested and prosecuted, since the Obama administration doesn’t have the guts to do it.

  • Guest

    If your comment is true then you’ve made my day.

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