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Congressman Ron Paul slams Obama: ‘He’s a warmonger’

By Eric W. Dolan
Monday, February 14, 2011 18:09 EDT
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Republican Congressman Ron Paul said Monday his unwavering opposition to war could help him defeat President Barack Obama in a national election.

“The reality is it would be very, very difficult,” Rep Paul (R-TX) said on MSNBC’s Morning Joe. “But if you look at the polls, and there aren’t that many, my appeal is to a lot of independents and a lot of progressive Democrats who are sick and tired of Obama for opting out of cutting back on some of this militarism.”

“He’s a war monger,” Rep. Paul added. “He’s expanding the war. My numbers would be much bigger running against Obama than they will be running against some conservative in the Republican primary.”

For the second year running, Texas congressman Ron Paul came out on top among conservative Republicans in a “straw poll” contest to gauge popularity ahead of the 2012 presidential race.

Paul, who calls himself a libertarian, is not really the party’s typical standard bearer, by any measure. But he earned the most votes in the contest held by the Conservative Political Action Conference in which about 4,000 people cast ballots.

He drew thunderous applause for bashing the Patriot Act, US aid to foreign nations, and US military bases overseas during his speech at CPAC on Friday.

The conservative group Young Americans for Freedom (YAF) announced Saturday that Rep. Paul would be expelled from the group’s National Advisory Board because of his “delusional and disturbing alliance with the fringe Anti-War movement.”

“I think the problem we have is with the semantics,” Rep. Paul explained on Morning Joe. “They have conditioned us all to use the word defense spending. Who wants to cut defense? I don’t want to cut defense. I want a stronger defense.”

“I want to cut the militarism, the interventionism, the stuff that hurts us, that makes us more vulnerable,” he continued. “If we separate defense from militarism, maybe more people would be willing to accept it. Who wants to be on record who says I just voted against the defense budget.”

“I think it’s a perception and a semantics problem that we have to try to reeducate the people to understand what we’re talking about.”

With AFP.

Eric W. Dolan
Eric W. Dolan
Eric W. Dolan has served as an editor for Raw Story since August 2010, and is based out of Sacramento, California. He grew up in the suburbs of Chicago and received a Bachelor of Science from Bradley University. Eric is also the publisher and editor of PsyPost. You can follow him on Twitter @ewdolan.
 
 
 
 
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  • Anonymous

    Ron is right …..again

  • Anonymous

    Agreed

  • Anonymous

    Like most republicans he polls well on cherry picked talking points. Notice the (R) associated with his name and his voting record. I rest my case.

  • Anonymous

    Got to admit. His anti-militarism is his strongest point. With the US determined to continue to spend as much on defense as the rest of the world combined, maybe Ron Paul will motivate people to stop and think.

  • Anonymous

    Ron Paul voted YES on HJ Resolution 64 authorizing the President to use force in responding to the “9/11 attackers”.

    He is just another “shoot first and ask questions later” war monger.

    “I want to cut the militarism, the interventionism,” It’s bullshit.

  • Iconoclasm

    When the idiots in this country stop taking a “Liberal/Conservative” side and realize that our fearless leaders have been neither/nor, either/or, then they may realize that Ron Paul would be far better for this country than what we have had. I am leery of Paul for his lack of specifying a plan such as this one:

    http://www.notaxesnow.org/

    Instead, Doctor Paul hangs on the gold standard which simply WILL NOT work today. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with paper money, what is wrong is that the interest is going into the WRONG place, that being the Banksters pockets when it could instead be used to fund government, efffectively eliminating the need for taxation, and therefore, creating a much freer society. Oh, and by the way, there would be no interruption of current government services.

    If Ron Paul came out touting the Eric Williams solution, he’d have my vote for sure!

    “Taxation is just a euphemism for armed robbery!”

  • http://www.youtube.com/user/RepublicConstitution?feature=mhum TruthRegimes

    Dr. Paul is right again. Obama, like Bush, loves warfare.

  • http://skulzstudios.com/ don nash

    Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich wouldn’t make too bad a ticket. Most likely never gonna happen but still…
    Obama is one bitter disappointment. An “Uncle Tom” of a disappointment.

  • http://www.facebook.com/mdetrano Marc DeTrano

    So, he bashed the patriot act, foreign aid, and overseas military bases. 2 out of 3 ain’t bad ?

  • Anonymous

    Rand is an idiot. close the bases we have overseas?? loss of major intelligence gathering capabilities, also the presence of US troops remains the best friend making effort the US can make..
    isolationism screwed the country before, now we are going top go back to a failed strategy that drew us into a world war.. yeah, Rand’s the man alrighty

  • http://www.BaltimoreGreenCurrency.org Shrapnel

    I think Ron is awfully weak on environmental issues, and he cannot seem to understand that brutally enslaving millions of people leaves our whole society with a debt that must be paid. I’d like to see a transition to a situation where social business takes care of the poor and the sick, the orphans, the unemployed and others disadvantaged through no fault of their own, but in the meantime, government has to shoulder the burden. There must be oversight and regulations that prevent the excesses of profit hungry corporations – and that means far more rigorous enforcement of the law than is currently the case, so I have serious reservations. But having said that, Ron Paul is far and away the best of all of those elected to Congress, and I wish him every success in 2012. If he can find a way to balance the ticket with someone who is strong where he is weak, I’ll even vote for him.

  • Anonymous

    You do realize that you have just lost all your credibility with that post, right?

  • Anonymous

    “Taxation is just a euphemism for armed robbery!”

    Oh please! Your very message is travelling over taxpayer paid networks.

    Your life, your job, your house, your car, everything you own is yours because your taxes paid for your country.

    You are just a worthless unpatriotic loser piece of shit. You have no idea how dependent you are on the government. Get a fucking clue.

  • Anonymous

    I think I am going to switch to the Republican party just so I can support this man in the primaries. I want nothing to do with warmongers, whether they have a (D) or an (R) next to their name.

  • Anonymous

    “Foreign aid” is used to prop up dictators who are friendly to use foreign policy goals like Mubarak… So I’d say he got 3 out of 3.

  • Anonymous

    Then why are you supporting Ron Paul? He voted for Bush’s war.

  • Anonymous

    WE NEED A REVOLUTION HERE IN THE US…

  • Jaimie11

    Tell me Fran, how many of any party voted against authorizing military force 3 days after 9/11?

    I wish you would apply your extraordinarily high standard to Democrat war mongers. You are pushing bullshit.

  • Anonymous

    shrapnel: “Ron Paul is far and away the best of all of those elected to Congress”

    Bullshit. Ron Paul wants to send this country back to the days when abortions were illegal. He wants poor women to die from illegal abortions. He wants rich women to travel to other countries where they can get safe abortions. His policies sound good to the naive but they all push money into the pockets of the rich.

    If you think Ron Paul and libertarianism are the way to go, you are reading fairy tales written by speed freaks.

  • Anonymous

    That is not the point. The point is that Ron Paul says he is against war, but he lies.

    Others voted for war too but they do not lie about it. He lies.

  • Jaimie11

    Such dependency! And you approve of that? What kind of incompetent are you that you cultivate dependencies?

  • Jaimie11

    Don’t forget he wants to expose the criminal Federal Reserve – that’s 4 out of 4.

  • Anonymous

    “What kind of incompetent are you that you cultivate dependencies?”

    I live in this world. How insane are you to think that you have no dependencies?

  • Jaimie11

    Rand, Ron – who cares it’s only the first letter of a name that is the name. So uninformed. Typical.

  • http://twitter.com/Howieisright Howieisright

    The truth hurts!

  • Anonymous

    I’m convinced that RP may be the guy in 2012.
    I’m a lefty and life long progressive, btw.

  • Jaimie11

    His position is that if your neighbor pollutes the environment you have every right to stop him by lawsuit and seeking redress.

    People are talking about Kucinich or Nader.

  • Anonymous

    Paul/Nader = Libertarian/Social libertarian wet dream. That’s what I would rather see personally. Two middle fingers held high, one from the left hand and one from the right, screaming f#ck you to the ruling class. I’m down. Who’s ready to campaign?

  • http://twitter.com/Howieisright Howieisright

    That is because the 911 commission defrauded everyone.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jon-Adams/100000702437154 Jon Adams

    The people who got us into Iraq should be hung.

    We aren’t making any friends overseas.

  • Anonymous

    “everyone” bullshit

  • Ma’at

    He is correct. We are in George W. Bush’s third term.

  • Jaimie11

    I do but I don’t expect others to pay for them. Apparently that is the first place you go.

  • Anonymous

    “you have every right to stop him by lawsuit and seeking redress.”

    Bullshit the environment belongs to everyone, we pay our taxes so that the government will defend our environment for us.

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/3ETFGMQ3B7VD4AAMILBBEVMCWE JasonA

    Certainly seems to be true.

  • Anonymous

    Start with Ron Paul because he voted for it.

  • Jaimie11

    You are an incorrigible liar. You misrepresent anything you disagree with, even if you don’t know what it is.
    And you support all your lying Dems who sweet nothing you and do the opposite right there in your face.

    But you are such loyal girl, you let ‘em get away with it, and you’re willing to spread lies about anyone with more honor than your backstabbing dems.

  • Anonymous

    Bush would not have allowed the Patriot Act to expire

  • http://twitter.com/Howieisright Howieisright
  • Anonymous

    “dependencies” go both ways loser. It’s called “mutual benefit”. You don’t seem to know much about these things.

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/3ETFGMQ3B7VD4AAMILBBEVMCWE JasonA

    You need better drugs dude. Our troops are regarded as oppressors and occupiers in Iraq and Afgan. They have died for nothing but the monumental stupidity of George Bush and and the corrupt go-along Congress, which is corporate owned.

    And our intelligence gathering is so great…let’s see what have they missed? 9-11, all terror attacks in the ’90s. Oh, and they were asleep at the switch, again, regarding Egypt. What is the return on the trillions we “invest” in the military and intelligence? Virtually ZIP.

    Now go back to sleep.

  • Anonymous

    Who doesn’t pay, genius? People who are unemployed and are receiving unemployment insurance pay taxes. Only the goddamned uber wealthy and corporations don’t pay taxes. The (R) s are Koch suckers and Ron has (R) by his name.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_M3IIDSP4OE42BFMXLKZOADJXQQ David

    You’re wrong.

    “Bush’s war” is Iraq. According to Wikipedia:

    “Paul voted to authorize the president, pursuant to WPR, to respond to those responsible for the September 11, 2001, attacks. … Paul was one of six Republicans to vote *against* the Iraq War Resolution and sponsored a resolution to repeal the war authorization in February 2003″

  • Anonymous

    Where is my lie? Tell me!!!

    Tell me did I lie when I said that Ron Paul voted for war? No I did not. Check it out for yourself.

    Do I mis-represent Ron Paul on abortion? No! I got my info right straight from his website.

    And tell me what makes you think I am a democrat? Your vivid imagination because I never claimed to be a member of any party.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_M3IIDSP4OE42BFMXLKZOADJXQQ David

    You’re wrong.

    “Bush’s war” is Iraq. According to Wikipedia:

    “Paul voted to authorize the president, pursuant to WPR, to respond to those responsible for the September 11, 2001, attacks. … Paul was one of six Republicans to vote *against* the Iraq War Resolution and sponsored a resolution to repeal the war authorization in February 2003″

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_DFO26ZTHHBKLAS7STLD3JV3USY jjhuyzinga

    We were attacked on 9-11. He’s saying he’s for stronger defense.

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/3ETFGMQ3B7VD4AAMILBBEVMCWE JasonA

    Bush, Cheney and Rummy should be the first to stretch the rope. Then we go down the line….

  • Anonymous

    every fuckin body voted for it….75% of the sheeple supported it.

  • ThorsteinVeblen2012

    I disagree with Barack Obama’s policy on the war.

    But I will not call him a warmonger. He didn’t start these wars. He’s not talking about expanding them. He has not given into the neocon’s war with Iran fervor.

    George Bush wanted to be a war president. He committed this country to aggressive war. There is a distinction between what George Bush started and what Barack Obama continues.

    His crime is not ending the wars.

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/3ETFGMQ3B7VD4AAMILBBEVMCWE JasonA

    The crime is both the fault of Obama and the corrupt Congress for funding these wars. But the Congress is on the take from the corporations.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_M3IIDSP4OE42BFMXLKZOADJXQQ David

    We’ll he might not have originally been against the war in Afghanistan but he was definitely against the Iraq war from the start.

    “Paul voted to authorize the president, pursuant to WPR, to respond to those responsible for the September 11, 2001, attacks. … Paul was one of six Republicans to vote *against* the Iraq War Resolution and sponsored a resolution to repeal the war authorization in February 2003″

    I’ll take him over Obama any day, our “Nobel Peace Prize” winning president who continues to invest our blood in these stupid wars.

  • Jaimie11

    Here Fran, the vote. Everybody voted YES even Bernie Saunders – you are not a clear thinker are you Fran?

    http://www.votesmart.org/issue_keyvote_member.php?cs_id=7933

  • Anonymous

    “Paul voted to authorize the president, pursuant to WPR, to respond to those responsible for the September 11, 2001, attacks”

    Before we even knew who they were! Shoot first, ask questions later! Just like I said!

  • http://twitter.com/Howieisright Howieisright

    GOP is sure having they’re way right now with abortion I do not see Obama vetoing.

  • Jaimie11

    This is what you said – it is a complete misrepresentation. Here, look at the vote yourself – 3 days after 9/11. I’ll bet you were shitting your pants on Sept 14th 2001.

    “Ron Paul voted YES on HJ Resolution 64 authorizing the President to use force in responding to the “9/11 attackers”.

    He is just another “shoot first and ask questions later” war monger.

    “I want to cut the militarism, the interventionism,” It’s bullshit.”

    And the vote – not one single nay.

    http://www.votesmart.org/issue_keyvote_member.php?cs_id=7933

  • http://twitter.com/Howieisright Howieisright

    Obama extended its length

  • Anonymous

    “I’ll take him over Obama any day”

    Oh yes vote for the guy who gets his philosophy from pulp fiction novels written by drug addicts. See what kind of country you end up when you vote for a guy who thinks that women are just baby machines.

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/3ETFGMQ3B7VD4AAMILBBEVMCWE JasonA

    The act had its own sunset provisions…read up on it. So what is your point? Ma’at stated that we are in Bush’s third term, and I agreed. Prove me wrong…the wars continue.

  • Anonymous

    Paul is not man enough to admit that he was fooled. He has to lie about it and pretend that nobody will look up his vote.

    I accept people who admit that they learn from their mistakes. Paul learned nothing from his mistake.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_6YBHLDOEMFAXOYVP5ZJN43MMWQ vinnysabba

    As is OBushma- on the take from Wall Street and the MIC

  • Jaimie11

    You are a disgrace to your sex and the human race, an example of pure obstinacy.

    You have no concept of goodness – you think only government is capable of good. Poor fool.

  • Anonymous

    If Bush were in office he would have used his influence to pass the extension.

    JUST LIKE HE DID WHEN HE WAS IN OFFICE.

  • Anonymous

    Huh? The Patriot act is expired!

  • http://twitter.com/Howieisright Howieisright

    Fran you actually believed they attacked us for our freedoms? And all the other commission lies.

  • Anonymous

    Bullshit this country is pro-choice, the majority of lawmakers are pro choice.

  • Anonymous

    How many of them lied about their vote?

  • Guest

    I can’t disagree with him on this. Obama is a huge warmonger. He hasn’t seen a war he doesn’t like, even though he ran for the US Senate and the presidency as an anti-war candidate. Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Pakistan, Colombia, the US border with Mexico, and who knows where else he’s actively encouraging wars. It’s sickening.

    Unless Paul gets the GOP nomination, a real progressive primaries Obama out, or there’s a Nader/McKinney option, I won’t be voting in 2012. Someone really needs to tell Obambi he’s going to lose if he doesn’t get off this track. People will eagerly vote for a right-wing warmongering plutocratic-whore nut over a wannabe right-wing warmongering plutocratic-whore nut.

    Today on Arianna Huffington’s right-wing-accomodationist Huffington Post, an article even favorably compares Barack Obama to Dwight Eisenhower. I sure in the hell didn’t vote for Ike 2, Reagan 2, HW Bush 2, W Bush 2, or even Clinton 2. This is change the hounds of hell can believe in!

  • http://twitter.com/Howieisright Howieisright

    WoW you are a mad feminazi bitch!

  • Jaimie11

    I have never experienced the government doing its job when my rights have been violated as the Constitution directs it to. It has only protected the violator.

    That’s why I develop my mutually beneficial relationships without the need for government, for its advice, for its permission, for its direction, for its stolen money, and for anything else it wishes to shove down my throat.

    You, apparently, are not as discriminating as I am.

  • Anonymous

    “. I’ll bet you were shitting your pants on Sept 14th 2001.”

    No I was saying “I bet our corrupt government will use this as an excuse to go to war AGAIN”

    Ron Paul fell for the propaganda along with everyone else, but now he rewrites history and lies about his own participation. He was cheering Bush along with all the other sheepie.

    You are saying we need to elect someone who is easily fooled! Haha!

  • Anonymous

    not sure I get what you mean…..lied and said they did? or didn’t?

  • Anonymous

    Department of “Defense” or US department of empire and war?
    RT

    “The United States has an unknown number of military bases abroad which leads many to believe the US is simply trying to build/expand its empire. Will the United States Empire ever cut back on the number of its military bases abroad? Jacob Hornberger from the Future of Freedom Foundation says the US is under no threat of invasion, there’s nothing to defend against; this is just a department of empire and war.”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWIychjHcpg

    Ron, Kucinich Bravo!

  • Anonymous

    You guys are right. Let’s vote for one of the people who was fooled by 9/11 propaganda. We need a president who will react instinctively without thinking. We need presidents who worship drugged-out fiction authors. We need to have “free markets” because the rich have not gotten all of our money. We need a leader who panders to religion and folk tales when it comes to women’s health.

  • Anonymous

    Your right. If they had read Bin Laden’s manifest it was clear what his intention was.

    To lure us into a fight in Afghanistan to bleed us dry. Mission Accomplished.

    Bin Laden also stated that the US wanted to invade Iraq before anything leaked of what Bush’s intentions were. He was right.

    We fell for it.

  • Anonymous

    “I develop my mutually beneficial relationships without the need for government”

    Bullshit you are using the Internet.

    How do you do that? You can’t even go out in public! You can’t walk down the sidewalk or drive in a car! You can’t go to the park. You can’t even go into a bar for a drink! After all you do it all “without the need for government”

  • Jaimie11

    Now I know for sure you are a liar, and to yourself as well. Of all the people in the America you were the only one outside of Cheney and gang who knew 9/11 was propaganda. What brilliance! What perceptiveness!

    The real mystery is – where is that brilliance now?

  • Anonymous

    You are a disgrace to intelligence because I have never revealed my sex.

  • Ratm435

    hook line and sinker.

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/3ETFGMQ3B7VD4AAMILBBEVMCWE JasonA

    And your proof is?

  • Anonymous

    Well congratulations: you have that president in Mr. Obama.

  • Anonymous

    I remember Bush told us that Iraq invaded us. He was WRONG. But Ron Paul believed him.

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/3ETFGMQ3B7VD4AAMILBBEVMCWE JasonA

    It is about to be re-authorized by the Congress.

  • Anonymous

    Please tell us all about how Obama is anti-choice

  • Anonymous

    Ron Paul has our family vote in 2012 !!!

  • Anonymous

    As we speak, it is expired. Criminals and terrorists are running amock! Bush would never have allowed any gap in coverage.

  • Jaimie11

    I think you should pay taxes if you enjoy it so much and it is so voluntary on your part. Since you believe your rights are intact, protected and respected by government – go ahead support it out of the goodness of your naive heart. I do not like being violated, being coerced into supporting a criminal dictatorship of the hyper wealthy Dems and Repubs and their banksters.

    You seem to only to disapprove of the Repubs. Well, I feel sorry for you that your values are so easily swayed.

  • Anonymous

    Read the freaking headline. Ron Paul is a first class hypocrite. He pulls the war trigger before he even knows who the enemy is.

  • Anonymous

    Jamie: Your the fool. Government is supposed to be for “We The People”.

    Yet neither party believes that.

    The difference between Democrats and Republicans in WASHINGTON is slight.

    The Republicans don’t give a damn about anyone but the rich and could care less about anyone else.

    The Democrats feel the same way but they know if you starve the citizenry that will rise up so they let you get the crumbs.

    If their was a revolution in this country at least the PEOPLE who support the Democrats would be fighting for the middle class and the poor.

    The Republicans in this country would be fighting to make sure the rich keep their tax cuts and keep the fascist corporations in control of our Government.

    Look at the Iraq war. Republicans hate Muslims yet they didn’t have a problem spending 3 trillion of our American tax dollars because they thought we were going to get their oil

    The majority of people who support the Democrats were against the war.

    Yet now they are totally silent on Afghanistan.

    Obama is nothing more than a brick in the wall that needs to be torn down.

    The question is what side will you be on when it’s torn down.

    The corporations or the people.

    It would be hard to find a democrat supporting the corporations.

    What about your side.

  • Balthazars Rebellion

    Yes, Using force to go after “the 9/11 attackers” is not quite the same thing as initiating a full out war on an entire nation.

  • Anonymous

    Well no shit. You will throw them out in the cold if they vote otherwise.

  • Anonymous

    Wow someone who actually reads Huffington Post.

    And better yet, someone who took it seriously.

    Thanks for the laugh.

  • Anonymous

    Oh, Jamie11 is back, how are your Ad hominem abuse arguments today? Oh, and, BTW, how do you know what RP is gonna do? You work for him or the Tea Bag Party or what? You and your misinformation baloney.

    RP and his buddy Koch are gonna find your “if your neighbor pollutes the environment you have every right to stop him by lawsuit and seeking redress.” argument quite funny and hilarious while their industries are some of the biggest polluters in TX, I’d like to see you or RP bring a lawsuit against Koch for his pollution mess, ha… They’d laugh you right out of court.

    See video for more details on RP and his buddy Koch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLJBcnVbYLY

    Then admit who you really are, who you are really working for… Put your cards on the table, dude, I’m calling your bluff.

  • Balthazars Rebellion

    It’s obvious you haven’t a clue what Ron Paul thinks.

  • http://twitter.com/Howieisright Howieisright
  • Anonymous

    Who needed to read his manifesto? It was the most obvious ploy ever. You can pick out the losers because they say “who could have seen it”

  • Anonymous

    How many times did Paul vote for Bush/Cheney?

  • Anonymous

    Many many people knew. There were many many protests. But you were not paying attention, you were too excited about going to war, just like Ron Paul was.

  • Anonymous

    Ron would kick Obama’s war mongering ass, then we would have our freedoms again because he would move to restore the constitution, and no people he won’t cut the poor or the elderly, he says he would go after the military torture, assassination and killing.

    As yourself this, considering that he WON’T cut the old people and the poor (so you can forget about it), but he will gut the military offense spending and bring that money home, he will cut the foreign aid that only goes to dictators and killing, and he would work to restore the constitution…why would you vote for an MSM candidate who will continue everything you hate?

    We are talking TRILLIONS in savings if you vote and support Ron Paul, you may not get everything you ever dreamed of but you voted for your guy, Obama and look how that worked out. Shillery would be the same I promise. You notice (if you look) how the media is beginning to attack him again now that we are near elections..we its for a good reason, they don’t want you voting for a real Patriot.

  • Jaimie11

    You are a calumnious idiot – you are putting all your credibility at stake to defend an error you made either deliberately or through ignorance.

  • Anonymous

    Ron Paul voted for the “Secure Fence Act of 2006″ a useless piece of legislation that simply enriched a bunch of defense contractors. This was a total waste of taxpayer money and our good buddy Ron Paul voted for it with pride.

    In fact he is quite fond of voting for these useless pieces of pork legislation. Why not go look at his voting record, you can see all of the times he has been fooled into spending your tax money on stupid stuff.

  • Anonymous

    RP = Truth.

  • Jaimie11

    Not all of this country is pro-choice, and your insistence on disrespecting their position is putting your position at risk. And your hysterical lies are going to haunt you I think. You may have lost all credibility tonight.

  • Anonymous

    Lots of RP supporters say, “he’s gonna do this”, “he’s gonna fix that”, and give all these intricate explanations and predictions about what “he’s gonna do”. –Bullshit! (To quote GC, and God bless him too). How do you know what RP’s gonna do?

    He can promise to end the crap – just like O (Hope and Change) – but in the end he must serve the hidden forces of evil, or else. How many times you gonna fall for the same deception with a different face, ou la la – as they say in French – isn’t this one getting old already, my fellow Americans?

  • Balthazars Rebellion

    Rand or Ron Paul are not “isolationists”. They are “non interventionists”, Meaning US government should keep it’s meddling claws to itself while espousing a healthy trade with other nations. N. Korea is an “isolationist” country. Get your terms straight.

  • http://twitter.com/Howieisright Howieisright

    Try to follow! I was talking about what the 911 commission said not what Bush said.

  • Jaimie11

    That’s correct – all of the environment can potentially affect all the people. But my private property is none of your business unless I do things with it or to it that endanger you. Until that occurs my property is none of your effing business.

  • Balthazars Rebellion

    “Ron Paul wants to send this country back to the days when abortions were illegal.”…Wrong again. He wants to leave the abortion issue in the hands of the states and not a centralized federal decision.

  • Anonymous

    “considering that he WON’T cut the old people and the poor (so you can forget about it),”

    Bullshit, just look at his voting record.

    He has voted AGAINST benefits for veterans

    He votes on a regular basis against funding for elderly and the poor. Why not look into his record?

    Ron Paul voted “YES” on the “Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008″ which INCREASED FUNDING FOR THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY

    So Ron Paul is JUST ANOTHER advocate for BIG BROTHER.

  • Balthazars Rebellion

    Thou spew forth lies like an over x-laxed anus.

  • Anonymous

    Huh? Ron Paul states his abortion position very clearly on his website.

  • Jaimie11

    Fran, I doubt you’ll ever redeem yourself after this display of deliberate ignorant distortion of fact. A pusher of the letter of the law to the detriment of its spirit.

  • Jaimie11

    Obama let it expire? What – he whispered that in your ear?

  • Balthazars Rebellion

    Uh, your unbelievable. I really believe it was in the context of when we found out who was responsible.

  • http://twitter.com/Howieisright Howieisright

    That has nothing to do with the fact Obama did not veto because?

  • yvonneo

    Ron Paul has also publicly expressed opposition to the Civil Rights Act, continued deregulation, favors shutting down govt rather than raising the debt ceiling, and has also been an ardent supporter of the tax cuts to the wealthy for quite some time. About the only thing I agree with him on are ending the wars and taking on the Fed. The problem is, I don’t trust him–and all the insults in the world from RP supporters for criticizing or questioning their guy isn’t going to convince me to trust him any more or cause me to cast my vote for him.

    Also, Ron Paul has a lot of support from David Duke and his supporters, which makes me wonder how many of the people commenting on Ron Paul articles on Raw Story these days are supporters of David Duke as well and are here to persuade (through insult and bully tactics) progressives to vote for RP because of his stance on the wars and the Fed alone. I find it quite amazing that they are coming here to convince progressives to abandon our progressive principles to vote for their guy, who IMO is pretty much your typical republican with the exception of a couple of issues.

    And I’m also suspicious that this could be a very clever tactic being employed by the plutocrats. The progressive ideology and the conservative ideology have very little in common–yet the RP supporters and their new “conservative movement” (and that’s how they refer to it) are attempting to seduce progressives into abandoning our ideology in favor of the conservative ideology by convincing us that we should vote for Ron Paul because they claim he’s not a typical republican. Yeah, right! Haven’t we heard repeatedly from the republicans over the last couple of years that they were going to do whatever it takes to not only cause the democratic leadership to fail, but to also eliminate all progressive policies? So let’s see if we can convince progressives to abandon their principles in order to get a republican elected president in 2012.

    And check out this article:

    “A lot of Republicans running for president…these days are trying to reach out to the Libertarian wing of the party, whose fiscal views have come to dominate the tea party movement. But Paul made it clear how far the Mitt Romneys and Tim Pawlentys of the world will have to go before they really talk like a libertarian. Where they’re talking about small government and shrunken entitlements, Paul’s suggesting young people be allowed to walk away from the government entirely. His proposed deal works like this: you pay the government 10% of your income (presumably to protect your borders and such) and you promise you’ll never take advantage of a government service for the rest of your life.”

    http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/02/ron-paul-asks-the-youth-to-opt-out-of-america-video.php#disqus_thread

  • Anonymous

    Ron Paul is the liar. He claims intelligence and knowledge but you freely admit that he is no more intelligent than the average loser. We can do better than an average loser.

  • Jaimie11

    He promised to invade Pakistan well before the campaigns at a press club dinner. Reports of it appeared on the back pages of some left leaning papers. Utter silence otherwise.

  • Anonymous

    RP = the straw man who won the straw poll.

  • Anonymous

    Did Mr. Paul ever cal Bush/Cheney/GOP warmongers…? Why not go to the source…the original source of these wars in the middle east….Ronnie….? It is true Obama hasn’t kept his word to his base…but Obama doesn’t get the whole blame…

    Ron Paul voted YES on HJ Resolution 64 authorizing the President to use force in responding to the “9/11 attackers”. Paul is a typical GOP hypocrite..”its legal when I do it..but, criminal when you do it….”

    .

  • Jaimie11

    Let’s have you for president – a hysterical liar who would likely start a nuke contest.

  • Anonymous

    .”But my private property is none of your business”

    That stupid statement has no foundation in law or anything else. Your “private property” belongs to this country before it belongs to you.

  • Anonymous

    and you are in self-righteous denial….

  • Anonymous

    “He wants to leave the abortion issue in the hands of the states”

    Yes and when you consider many of the state governments in this country, he IS sending this country back to the days when abortion was illegal. He KNOWS FULL WELL that the South will outlaw abortion. He KNOWS FULL WELL that many many poor women will suffer needlessly. He DOESN”T FUCKING CARE.

    You are an idiot. What does “the state gets to choose” mean? It means “the people do not get to choose.”

  • Anonymous

    The law in this country currently states that we are pro-choice.

  • Jaimie11

    We definitely have a great case for a nationwide or worldwide class action suit. You should not give up so easily, sunny.

    You’ll have to give me the minute and second where you want me to watch. I have an allergic reaction to the condescending gatekeeper, maddow.

  • Jaimie11

    Many people knew during the buildup and once the war had begun – not on Sept 14, 2001.

  • http://twitter.com/Howieisright Howieisright

    Just like Obama and Hilary’s buddy money backers George Soros and Harold Ickes.
    You should not be calling anyone else’s information baloney after all you got yours from Rachel Maddow ouch.
    http://news.muckety.com/2008/04/13/ickes-databank-focuses-on-democratic-supporters/2101

  • Jaimie11

    I am sorry, I made an assumption based on your hysteria. But you are a human, right?
    You are still spreading libel, and just to be obstinate.

  • Anonymous

    “favors shutting down govt ”

    He favors hiring an army of investigators to make sure that nobody is getting abortions illegally.

    He favors blowing millions of dollars on useless border fences.

    He favors spending more money on spies.

    He voted TWICE to continue the stupid pointless prosecution of Bill Clinton, which went nowhere and was a tremendous waste of taxpayer money.

    And when it comes to voting for the war, he does the ultimately cowardly thing: HE DOEN’T SHOW UP TO VOTE. Go ahead, look up his record.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_FGXCARS3WJKDWGGWBSOKAPH5RQ Dennis

    Calling President Barack Obama a warmonger is a stretch. In CPAC land there is no room for pragmatism or reason. Barack didn’t con everyone into the Iraq war. George Bush and his cronies did. Barack has drawn down troops in Iraq and is trying to make Afghanistan into a semi-stable democracy before leaving. It’s the Vietnam dilemma which experts know isn’t easy. There are after all innocent men, women and children in Afghanistan who don’t stand a chance against Taliban violence.

    For those who just don’t want to pay taxes I suggest moving to Somalia. Somalia hasn’t had a strong central government since 1994 and you don’t have to pay taxes. Who needs law enforcement, fire departments, clean water, clean air, roads, bridges, public schools, public universities, public parks, public beaches, public rest stops, non-toxic disease free food, safe toys, medical advancements, garbage and toxic waste collection and processing, inexpensive food, space exploration or military protection?

  • Anonymous

    Ron Paul is the epitome of a GOP self-righteous hypocrite…”its legal and necessary when I do it…a criminal act of indictable Treason when a Democrat does it…..Did Mr. Paul ever cal Bush/Cheney/GOP warmongers…? Ron Paul voted YES on HJ Resolution 64 authorizing the President to use force in responding to the “9/11 attackers”. I am shocked..! the Congress seems to be full of these triangulating politicians..and we are arguing about which side is worse….but, keeps us occupied and to busy to actually unite and do anything about it…doesn’t it…? after all, 350 million (united) people against a handful of Plutocratic, Oligarchic, self-indulgent, self-appointed, self-important politicians, Judges and CEOs (Masters of the Universe) would be a massacre…. wouldn’t it..?

  • http://twitter.com/Howieisright Howieisright

    The Obama administration said Tuesday it wants a three-year extension of Patriot Act surveillance authorities, far longer than the timeline proposed by House Republicans.

    The White House released a Statement of Administration Policy that says it “would strongly prefer enactment of reauthorizing legislation that would extend these authorities until December 2013.”

    House Republicans are considering an extension until December of this year.

  • Anonymous

    You freely admit Ron Paul got suckered. We don’t need another sucker.

  • Anonymous

    as the offspring of parents that grew up in the 60s and someone who grew up in so-called “punk” generation fierce independence has been the M.O. for myself and many others that I know. This certainly makes much of what Ron Paul says very appealing. This gospel of refusing government violation is in the DNA of my culture. But… you have to be wary of this idea that we are going to make this transition from a very deep dependence on a federally funded lifestyle to the revolutionary ways that many people say they are ready for. There is not much of an exit strategy in place. Ron’s supporters have to understand the irony of being able to live the way that they do while demonizing many of the subsidies that make this lifestyle possible. This is much like the immigration issue. Here in Texas, close to the border, this is a huge issue with most conservative rednecks. Really it just boils down to an insane hypocrisy and mental conflict on their part… But they just can’t see the irony in in praising Arizona’s border control policies while Jose is on their roof putting on the new shingles for next to no cost to them. The question is, ‘what do you do with the void that is left when you pull the plug’? guys, we are soooooooooooooooo dependent on this modern nightmare of a lifestyle and we can’t even begin to grasp the depths. You think because you’re leaching your neighbor’s internet right now that you are “roughing it” or because you are driving a car that you have to fill with oil every other day you are somehow worse off than your neighbor who has the new Mercury in the driveway. I hate to break it to you but we are ALL in the same quickly disappearing middle class and we are ALL just as dependent on government subsidized progress as the next person. So many of the landmarks of human rights and scientific progress that we as intelligent individuals (I mean as compared to most conservatives. Sorry to put it that way but when you look at this spectrum libertarians and progressives sit on the same side of the class) are proud to stand behind were fueled by the progressive movements in this country. Situations where a bigger third party stepped and said ‘no more. the dark ages methods no longer work in this situation’. without that kind of oversight (and lets face it the funding to do it) that’s exactly where we would be culturally and scientifically… in the dark ages. As one person pointed out the gold standard (one of the cornerstones of Ron’s philosophy) WILL NOT work in today’s society.

  • Jaimie11

    Yes, the internet was developed by the DOD with money it stole from the people, for purposes that are extra-constitutional, and now I pay handsomely for the privilege of using a technology I have already paid for over and over, and can be and am being spied on via that technology while enjoying the uncommonly rare and distinguished privilege of paying for that too.

    My own preference would be that the DOD is reduced to a bare minimum necessary to defend the country from outside attack and leave the rest to the private sector where it belongs. I would prefer a complete overhaul of the money system and a return to profits being the only taxable income. Ron Paul is a good start in that direction. The others can’t even see the criminality of the federal reserve for the blinding dollar signs in their crimson eyes.

  • Anonymous

    You don’t want me for president. I would force you to brush your teeth and eat your vegetables.

  • Anonymous

    i don’t just “like” this, I really “like” this!!! right on

  • Anonymous

    as the offspring of parents that grew up in the 60s and someone who grew up in so-called “punk” generation fierce independence has been the M.O. for myself and many others that I know. This certainly makes much of what Ron Paul says very appealing. This gospel of refusing government violation is in the DNA of my culture. But… you have to be wary of this idea that we are going to make this transition from a very deep dependence on a federally funded lifestyle to the revolutionary ways that many people say they are ready for. There is not much of an exit strategy in place. Ron’s supporters have to understand the irony of being able to live the way that they do while demonizing many of the subsidies that make this lifestyle possible. This is much like the immigration issue. Here in Texas, close to the border, this is a huge issue with most conservative rednecks. Really it just boils down to an insane hypocrisy and mental conflict on their part… But they just can’t see the irony in in praising Arizona’s border control policies while Jose is on their roof putting on the new shingles for next to no cost to them. The question is, ‘what do you do with the void that is left when you pull the plug’? guys, we are soooooooooooooooo dependent on this modern nightmare of a lifestyle and we can’t even begin to grasp the depths. You think because you’re leaching your neighbor’s internet right now that you are “roughing it” or because you are driving a car that you have to fill with oil every other day you are somehow worse off than your neighbor who has the new Mercury in the driveway. I hate to break it to you but we are ALL in the same quickly disappearing middle class and we are ALL just as dependent on government subsidized progress as the next person. So many of the landmarks of human rights and scientific progress that we as intelligent individuals (I mean as compared to most conservatives. Sorry to put it that way but when you look at this spectrum libertarians and progressives sit on the same side of the class) are proud to stand behind were fueled by the progressive movements in this country. Situations where a bigger third party stepped and said ‘no more. the dark ages methods no longer work in this situation’. without that kind of oversight (and lets face it the funding to do it) that’s exactly where we would be culturally and scientifically… in the dark ages. As one person pointed out the gold standard (one of the cornerstones of Ron’s philosophy) WILL NOT work in today’s society.

  • Jaimie11

    Except when it comes to FORCING those to pay for abortion who have moral objections to doing that. They should also have freedom to be pro-choice in their own manner.

  • http://twitter.com/Howieisright Howieisright

    Accept Obama bald face lied about pulling troops from Afghanistan and shutting down Guantanamo bay.

  • Anonymous

    i read the whole freakin thing, Fran…chill.

  • Anonymous

    …and before you start in, I am not a democrat

  • Balthazars Rebellion

    It will mean that some states may ban abortions while others will keep it fully legal. It will not be a blanket centralized federal decision to ban abortion. There are representatives of the people within state and local governments that I have way more faith in than the owned Washington DC pricks. I believe in “pro choice” but I refuse to get caught up in a side show. The most pressing issue is the US governments obscene lust for empire, wars and meddling in the affairs of other nations and an economic situation that needs to be completely rebuilt. Not to mention the globalist criminal entity that calls itself the Federal Reserve…it needs to be shut down!

  • Jaimie11

    And because he is not a hero, FranTaylor has the right to spread libel about him. I would defend anyone from being libeled, anybody at all.

  • Anonymous

    WTF are you talking about? What veto? What bill?

  • Jaimie11

    That would be you – denial – self-righteous. You need to look at the whole not just the part that makes you feel warm and gooey.

  • Anonymous

    Indeed.

    Don’t Miss out this recent RON PAUL interview. On Militarism and Empire:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9D7W7rD1R0

  • Anonymous

    “return to profits being the only taxable income.”

    Oh that’s just great. Do you know what “profits” are? They are purely ficitional creations. A company can choose to appear “unprofitable” so that it pays no taxes, they do it all the time.

    But you would rather run the country into the ground than acknowledge that your economic policy is based on bullshit.

  • Anonymous

    Ron Paul voted based on what the president said. The 9/11 commission did not exist when Ron Paul voted to go after imaginary bogeymen.

  • Anonymous

    very right on dennis. I think most intelligent individuals would like to see an end to this war. But I think most intelligent people must know that ending our involvement must be an insanely difficult task. This “End War Now” mantra sounds great but what exactly does that mean. I don’t think Ron Paul is keeping quiet about his strategies because he doesnt want anyone stealing his ideas. These wars are not something that Obama got us involved in but something he was charged with ending. I’m not letting him off the hook for the way he has handled everything, but I wonder just how successful Ron would have been and “Ending War Now”.

  • http://twitter.com/Howieisright Howieisright

    That was suppost to be a smash and grab of Bin Laden they lagged way to much. I do not think anyone in they’re right mind would support a 15 year war.

  • Anonymous

    “I made an assumption based on your hysteria.”

    Wow you sound just like Ron Paul! Shooting off before knowing the facts!

    I like to see people blame their stupidity on others. It is most revealing.

  • http://twitter.com/Howieisright Howieisright

    Everyone was fooled at that point in time. The only ones not fooled would be the conspiracy theorists.

  • Anonymous

    Bullshit. A.N.S.W.E.R. was formed on 9/12. They started protesting on 9/29. There was widespread anti-war sentiment from the very beginning. Many of us were not fooled.

  • Jaimie11

    You are having another fantasy. HJ Res 64 was the resolution to go after bin Laden in Afghanistan. It was not until December 28th while Bush was declaring victory in Afghanistan that he expanded his objective, and not until January 2002 that Bush declared Iraq part of the axis of evil. Iraq is not named in HJ Res 64, but Afghanistan and bin Laden were its verbally stated targets on the date of its signing.

    How was Paul expected to be a mind reader and a fortune teller and know Bush really meant Iraq? Now go home Fran. Your story is full of holes. Here’s some reading material to help you catch up.

    http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_timeline&complete_911_timeline__war_on_terrorism__outside_iraq=afghanistan

    http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-107hjres64ath/pdf/BILLS-107hjres64ath.pdf

    http://www.votesmart.org/issue_keyvote_member.php?cs_id=7933

  • yvonneo

    Exactly. And it’s congress that really has most of the power–particularly, when it comes to war–declaring, funding, and ending it. So it’s Congress that we should really be focusing on to pressure our representatives into ending these wars.

  • Anonymous

    “…then we would have our freedoms again….”

    Just who are these “we” you refer to, Canuck? You ARE a citizen and resident of Canada, aren’t you? Don’t you have your OWN constitution, and your OWN national elections, and your OWN candidates? And if you’re such an avid fan of Paul’s libertarian politics, then you must really loathe your single-payer universal health care system. And you’re fighting tooth and nail to privatize the whole thing, aren’t you? Because otherwise you’d be a hypocritical weasel. And you’re not a hypocritical weasel are you, Canuck?

    So from now on, kindly MYOB and STFU, eh?

  • Anonymous

    “Rand or Ron Paul are not “isolationists” WHAT A JOKE

    Ron Paul voted for a freaking border fence.

    If that is not “isolationist” then what is?

  • http://twitter.com/Howieisright Howieisright

    Openly supports Wikileaks and transparent government. I would have to say a media reform is just what main stream media needs. Thats 5 out of 5.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_M3IIDSP4OE42BFMXLKZOADJXQQ David

    Is it better having a president that supports wars that have killed close to a million civilians including women and children?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_M3IIDSP4OE42BFMXLKZOADJXQQ David

    Name one politician who doesn’t lie, and lie a lot? They all do.

    Ron Paul, in my opinion, is one of the more truthful and consistent ones.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_M3IIDSP4OE42BFMXLKZOADJXQQ David

    Can you please provide an example of a politician that you think is:

    1. 100% honest
    2. 100% truthful
    3. 100% consistent
    4. Not a sucker
    5. Extremely smart

    Just curious…

  • http://www.BaltimoreGreenCurrency.org Shrapnel

    Hmm. This is lively. And maybe that’s what we need – a bit of a jolt -because for damn sure, if we continue the way we are going ain’t nothing in our future but war, war and more war. I know, lets elect Palin and then we can have a civil war, which has got to be better than the uncivil, outright rude wars we have been engaged in for the last few decades.

  • gremlin

    Gezzzzz RON! …. throwing more men on bayonets in Afghanistan in Obama’s surge for political points is peaceful, predator drones busting up weddings in Pakistan is loving, and triggering a revolution in Egypt as an attempt to destabilize the Mid East at its core for a much clearer line of sight with war on Iran is just smart policy.

    Shut the fuck up Ron, youre just sore because the media is transplanting your liberty saplings onto bizarre-O world.

  • Anonymous

    And Paul is a neo-confederate civil warmonger.

  • http://www.facebook.com/rmorganhazard Bob Hazard

    Who cares what grampa paultard says about anything?

  • http://www.facebook.com/rmorganhazard Bob Hazard

    I’m sorry, did you say something?

  • http://www.facebook.com/rmorganhazard Bob Hazard

    More proof that republicans are not in their right minds.

  • http://www.facebook.com/rmorganhazard Bob Hazard

    RP =RIP

  • Iconoclasm

    You’re the brainwashed, braindead loser without a clue! Listen to yourself defending the government!

    How much stupider can one get?

    Clearly the best part of your brain rolled down your daddys pet chimpanzees balls when you were concieved!

    Taxation is no different than paying the Mafia for protection, and there are alternatives to taxation. Heres the link provided you have enough brains to understand it!

    Happy Valentines Day! ROTFLHAY!!

  • Anonymous

    “consistent”

    You want to vote for a guy who will be 81 years old as president! Why don’t you just vote for Ronald Reagan if you want to be ruled by old dead people.

  • Anonymous

    “some states may ban abortions”

    Taking rights away from poor women.

    INCREASING the government burden.

    He is not a “libertarian”. He is a “control freak”.

    “There are representatives of the people within state and local governments that I have way more faith in”

    Does that include Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana? You are pretty fucking naive.

  • Guest

    This action also is constitutional under Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution. It’s a letter of marque and reprisal. To my knowledge that’s the only action Dr. Paul has ever voted for – and that includes funding of any kind. If Mexican or Canadian skirmishers or privateers entered U.S. Territory to loot and kill. It would be well within the right of Congress to do something about it even outside her borders, without the declaration of war. The undeclared invasion and occupation of other nations however does not fall into this category – and must be declared by Congress to be constitutional.

  • http://www.balmorheaprogressive.blogspot.com/ BaileyWuXiang

    Don’t forget Latin America. We’re at war in Latin America against OPEC nations and the influence of China. The media is not reporting this.

  • Guest

    It was not an act of war it was retaliatory with the intent of capturing the agent presumed responsible for 3000 murders. AND it is the only military action Dr. Paul has voted for including (to my knowledge) funding of any kind. Neither he nor I – or any leader I know are averse to appropriate military responses. But the invasion of nations without declaration violates both the Constitution and the Just War Principle.

  • Anonymous

    You are pretty selective with your moral objections. You don’t have any problems paying for Ron Paul’s stupid border fences. You don’t have any problem paying for his increased intelligence budget. You don’t have any problem with his sexual fixations about Bill Clinton. You won’t have any problem paying for prison for these children when they grow up. Your outrage is phony and disingenuous.

  • Guest

    Give me a break. No one has been more staunchly against the unlawful invasions and occupations America have embarked on in the last 30 years. No one has more consistently warned the public of the monetary consequences of these actions. You cite the one vote that was justifiable under the constitution – look at every other. Even Kucinich cannot boast such a consistent opposition to these most recent campaigns. And you’re right… many of of us were not fooled. For example the day of the spectacle, my email box filled up with low-priced American flag offers. And I knew we would not catch Bin Laden, because it would not be politically expedient for those seeking to ram through legislation that otherwise would have drawn serious dissent.

  • Anonymous

    What idiot votes for an 81-year old president? Ron Paul will be 81 on the last year of the term for which he is supposedly running.

    If it was too old for Ronnie Raygun, too old for Ralph Nader, and too old for flyboy McCain, then it is too old for grampy paul too.

  • Guest

    Crap, I didn’t mean to push the like button. RAW move that thing to the other side! But seriously, it’s pretty obvious.

  • Anonymous

    Ron Paul is the only politician who makes any sense anymore. Our mission is how to get a third party candidate elected President? It will take something akin to a revolutionary movement to overturn the oligarchy that now rules the nation.

  • Anonymous

    Move to somalia if you don’t like taxes.

  • parrots_abound

    Ron Paul voted NO on the Iraq Resolution. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Resolution

    Bill here. http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d107:H.J.Res114:

    H.J. Res 64 the one you speak of, can be found here.

    http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c107:H.J.RES.64:

    As you can see, it was introduced 3 days after 9/11 and made no mention of invading any specific nation or army. It was a bill to authorize force against “terrorists”. He also spoke many times about how he did not expect a total invasion and occupation of Afghanistan to even happen.

    There were 420 YEA votes…and 1 NAY vote. http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2001/roll342.xml

    What is BULLSHIT is your representing him as a warmonger when he has spoken for 30 years against almost every military intervention and unjust war we have been engaged in and spoke out against the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan from their beginnings, even to the point of opposing military spending on them.

    Your post is downright silly.

  • Jaimie11

    The 9/11 Commission report was not completed until Jan 26, 2004, over three years after the singing of HJ Res 64 that Fran mistakenly believes proves Ron Paul is a lying warmonger.

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/3ETFGMQ3B7VD4AAMILBBEVMCWE JasonA

    What nonsense. Metaphorically speaking, locking the door on your house does not make you an isolationist. Just someone with good common sense.

  • Guest

    you know what your taxes mostly pay for especially at the federal level? Interest on loans to buy bombs and gunships to kill people halfway around the world. I’m glad you dig that so much Fran, it’s really telling how clueless you are.

  • Anonymous

    I voted for Obama. But if Ron Paul was running I’d vote for him in a moment, because he has been consistently honest on the most important issues facing us. Obama has instead been about NYC money, fluff, more of the same and more of supporting entangling alliances, where the USA has been led around by the tail to the benefit of others such as Israel. Instead we should be doing the leading for Americans.

  • Guest

    Again, the resolution you are talking about falls under section 8 – to bring the criminal back for prosecution. He did not authorize the subsequent undeclared wars or any funding for the wars. Indeed he introduced legislation in the house to make a declaration of war prior to the invasion although he himself would have voted against it.

  • MothMan

    Ron Paul will be the next President. I voted for Obama the first time, but he’s one and done. If he’d only kept his promises, he’d be the most popular president in history …

    He was elected on his promises, but he’s gone to the dark side …

  • Guest

    Not so he authorized a de facto letter of marque and reprisal to bring a suspected criminal to trial.

  • parrots_abound

    You’re full of crap.

    Go to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S7p0dICNdM&feature=related

    1:20 minutes in the video….and then rewind the whole video to the beginning and LEARN something.

    He voted on a Bill of DEFENSE…you do not know the difference between starting wars of aggression and voting on a Bill to defend from ATTACKERS.

    So you slander Ron Paul now as if he voted for a WAR, which he did not, and then claim him to be a “warmonger” because you don’t know the difference between Warmongering and justified DEFENSE, and voting for a Bill to go after “Terrorists”.

    THen you LIE again and claim he hasn’t admitted he was duped by Bush. And instead of calling Bush the warmonger he is, you choose a thread on Rawstory in 2011 to call Ron Paul, the quintessential Non Interventionist…a “warmonger”.

    Pathetic.

  • parrots_abound

    You’re a straight out liar.

    “Many Protests”? On Sept. 14th? 3 days after the event?

    And why don’t you mention all the war bills after that Ron Paul voted against, including Bills for war funding?

    You’re obviously just spinning shit into delusional thinking now and each post is getting more grandiose.

  • Guest

    That’s one of the things that the Constitution authorizes the federal government to do – protect our boarders. and it’s one of the only things the federal government DOESN’T do. Millions of illegals running through our boarders from a failed narco-police state. Please. I work with plenty of foreigners including Mexicans that are here legally. If it wasn’t for this notion that our national boundaries don’t matter – then perhaps we’d have more of our industrial jobs in the states.

  • Jaimie11

    You have no way of knowing what I think. But no matter what I think, you have no special right to libel anybody at all.

    But I do find it humorous that you can use the terms sexual fixations, Bill Clinton, and Ron Paul all in the same sentence, and fault Ron Paul. After the humor though, a sense of your warpedness remains as an aftertaste.

  • Guest

    Ticked off by at the prospect that perhaps the Feds won’t use our money to pay for your abortions fran? Dr. Paul simply does not believe that the federal government has the constitutional authority to fund abortions with our tax money. But not only does it fund abortions with our tax money it also funds abortions in Africa with our tax money. Maybe you dig that… Personally I think that all powers not specifically given the federal government are the jurisdiction of the states. And if you’d like to pay for abortions in Africa – you can donate your own money to UNICEF.

  • Iconoclasm

    You’re the one that needs to get a clue you braindead dimwit! It seems pretty clear to me that the best part of your brain rolled down your daddy’s pet Chimpanzees balls when you were concieved!

    You are so indoctrinated into your belief system that you may never snap out of it!

    It is possible to run a country WITHOUT taxation which IS a euphemism for ARMED ROBBERY whether you think so or not! Here is the link http://www.notaxesnow.org/ if you think you have enough reading and comprehension skills to absorb it!

    Happy Valentines Day!!! ROTFLHAY!!!

  • MothMan

    Does it take Ron Paul to tell us this. Come On people. I love RP, but we the people HAVE to be more of a freedom loving people. The Eqyptions taught a valuable lesson.

  • parrots_abound

    Isolationism is an foreign policy/economic term which has nothing to do with borders or physical fences.

    Wrong again.

  • parrots_abound

    Wrong again. Ron Paul wants STATES to decide abortion and question the Constitutional validity of Roe vs. Wade.

  • Jaimie11

    At least I admit when I make an assumption – you must agree though that Fran is usually a woman’s name while Frank is usually a man’s. Your gender doesn’t bother me at all. It’s your faulty libelous accusations that I object to.

  • parrots_abound

    Ron Paul doesn’t want a border fence.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVo9PapqYF0

    0:23 “I didn’t like the fence, I don’t think a fence could solve a problem”

    You’re wrong again, and again.

  • Guest

    Some aspects of the Civil Rights act are not only unconstitutional but racist. The amendments made to the civil rights act since it’s initial passage have seen sentences doubled for “hate crimes” committed against pretty much everyone except healthy, white, adult males. Furthermore he has made it quite clear that there is no reason to spend time and money on repealing these amendments because of the much larger fight for national sovereignty and sound money. Furthermore, your charge implies that since David Duke supports Ron Paul, Ron Paul is David Duke. It doesn’t work like that. Just because Dale Leo Bishop or Hamas supports Obama does not imply that Obama supports Dale Leo Bishop or Hamas.

  • Anonymous

    You are a fool for handing the nuke button to an 81 year old.

  • parrots_abound

    Nice ageism showing.

    Do your posts just keep getting more absurd and hateful by the hour?

  • Guest

    yeah right. We pay taxes so the government can kill brown people much like us in countries far away to secure low priced material for global corporations. Private property is real environmentalism. Allow us to sue the people who pollute our air and waterways. Instead we have an eco-fascist movement to get all our cars converted to electricity that is generated using coal… but only at coal plants built by General Electric.

  • Anonymous

    Even though, I part with Ron Paul, on a lot of issues, I must say that he is absolutely right about this one.

  • Guest

    Where do you wanna set up residence woman? The eastern bloc? You suck in a big way.

  • Guest

    A lie.

  • http://twitter.com/Howieisright Howieisright

    A new Republican bill defunding the health and abortion services group Planned Parenthood would also cut millions of dollars in funding for contraceptives, reproductive health counseling and cancer screenings.OBAMA NO VETO.
    Along with many others.

  • parrots_abound

    Every Ron Paul story that comes out on RAWSTORY is going to be hammered by Anti Ron Paul posters who are in high gear to smear him with every type of spin under the sun.

    Be it from special interest PACS who are angered he is building momentum again, or from Pro Obama and Pro Neocon individuals who will do ANYTHING it takes to slander and libel him with falsehoods and misrepresentations.

    They had nearly the same panic in 2008, but this year there seems to be more of a panic. If Ron Paul announces a run for President, they’ll explode.

    Ron Paul is dangerous to the system and he’s a marked man literally and figuratively.

    Pathetic obvious flame trolls are obvious and pathetic.

  • Guest

    everyone and their grandma said it was Bin Laden. Why not bring him to court? You lie like you can’t even tell how stupid you appear.

  • Anonymous

    Ask Ron if corporations are people…and then I’d take him seriously. Meanwhile, I appreciate the pressure on our misspent trillions while both parties are ready to chop the only programs that justify government’s existence to the MAJORITY of people in this country!

  • Jaimie11

    The gold standard does not mean we burn the paper money. You still have paper money but its value is based on the value of a commodity we the people own. With such value based money there is no inflation and thus your money does not lose value over time.

    Currently our money is based in debt only, no value at all. When you want to buy a car, your loan is approved and the central bank creates $25000 out of thin air. It did not exist yesterday, but today it appeared and paid for your shiny new car. Now, there is a hidden tax on this money. You get the benefit of the full $25000, but next year’s model of the same car will cost $26000. And your $50000 salary will only buy $48000 of goods and services. To continue earning $50000 in value your employer will have to give you a raise. You will be happy with a raise because you don’t understand that it is not really more value, it is more money yes, but of less value. It’s hard to save for retirement and your kid’s college when your money loses value every year, and the stock market is rigged against you.

    A gold standard solves that problem by making the value of money stable.

  • Guest

    Man – you’ve been reading to much Silvia Plath. I guess abortions are like guns. The more you have the more you want to defend your right to have them.

  • Jaimie11

    Obviously you have no idea that the tax system was designed by the bankers for the bankers. Of course, that would go too.

  • Jaimie11

    Spoken like a true corporate mouthpiece.

  • Jaimie11

    Yes simpleton, we bow to your rivers of wisdom.

  • Guest

    Who has a a better anti-war voting record than Paul? Please tell us. Maybe Kucinich. Any others you want to tell us about?

  • parrots_abound

    Hey Monkey shits,

    Why don’t you seriously take your spam comments and shit with the banana eaters over at HuffPo and swing on tires.

    Your fiber laden monkey shit is shitting up my shitting computer screen you shit.

  • Guest

    So you would take Obama over Paul? Please give an answer so we can rip your guy to shreds. Or just fail to give an answer and be like every one of the multitude of Paul bashers with nothing positive to contribute.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_M3IIDSP4OE42BFMXLKZOADJXQQ David

    Yes, he did call them warmongers and worse!

    Here is an excerpt of a speech that Ron Paul made on the floor of the House of Representatives in 2007:

    He said our leaders have a “demented philosophy of conquest”.

    “In recent decades, our policies have been driven by neoconservative empire radicalism; profiteering in the military industrial complex; misplaced do-good internationalism; mercantilistic notions regarding the need to control natural resources; and blind loyalty to various governments in the Middle East.”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZmPS0XmeBw

  • Guest

    No, actually I’ve been reading all of Fran’s posts on this thread and I must say he/she is quite consistent in dealing with all the Paul true believers. Rock on, Fran!

  • http://www.rawstory.com/ hounddogg

    fran is one of my heros…

  • Jaimie11

    That is the effect of unconstitutional illegal criminal government doing the bidding of a criminal global banking cartel that sucks the life blood out of economies in the name of progress and protection.

    You are completely brainwashed by the representatives of these criminal bankers to go willingly like a lemming to the edge of the cliff. Some of us are not slavish lemmings and retain our rights, and will
    continue to do so.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_M3IIDSP4OE42BFMXLKZOADJXQQ David

    There is no direct link yet, just circumstantial evidence:

    1. Trillions in banker bailouts
    2. Lots of Wall Street executives that find a home in his administration
    3. Continuing wars, with no end in sight
    4. Increasing investment in Homeland Surveillance (a by-product of MIC)

  • Jaimie11

    Hysterical person of questionable gender – there is no ticket yet, none for the Dems, none for the Opposition – all your bawling is for naught. Save it for another time when there is segment of reality for you to take in and react to – since response is not your strong suit.

  • Anonymous

    How much crystal meth did you consume? Ayn Rand snorted big piles of it before she wrote the book you use for a bible. Tell me do you really worship a philosophy invented by speed freaks?

    Both you and Ron Paul are snivelling little self-important idiots. Both will fade.

  • Anonymous

    What is your issue? Everyone gets old. Tell me how old is too old?

  • Jaimie11

    I already do that more than willingly so I have no need for a mother, even one like you, so accurate, so honest, so willing to admit her error.

  • Jaimie11

    Delusion tripe.

  • Anonymous

    Maybe you could stick up for me some more? I could use a little help.

  • Anonymous

    HJ Resolution 64 was a pretext, voted through by a cowed and compliant Congress, for invading not only Afghanistan, but also Iraq and any other countries Bush & Co. might have decided upon. So, you are making a bogus argument (and you know it).

  • Jaimie11

    When you understand the evils of the debt based money system you will stand a chance of seeing for the first time how much money is wasted on servicing the debt and going to war. All that money could be better spent on what human beings value. But you have to be willing to research the debt based money system to learn why it is not possible to fund human values while that system is still in place.

  • Jaimie11

    Get them to do it then – how long has the anti-war movement been pressing that point? It will never happen until the debt based money system is exposed and discarded.

  • http://www.rawstory.com/ hounddogg

    !!!…i do!…besides, you can take care of yourself just fine anyway…parrot boy is a light-weight…

  • NadePaulKuciGravMcKi

    mass murder war criminals
    run……….but you can’t hide

  • Anonymous

    Thanks for helping to clean things up with your erudite language.

  • Jaimie11

    One step at a time – there will not be a miraculous transformation. Get the federal reserve criminal theft and extortion racket out of our lives first. That is the beginning step.

  • Anonymous

    You’re gonna have to do better than that bob.

  • Anonymous

    Well thank you. I will make a point of sticking up for your posts too.

  • H.P. Loathecraft

    Semantics: “The Patriot Act”….classic propaganda straight out of Orwell.

  • Anonymous

    The problem here is the failure of the article(s) to connect RP and the Tea Party and the Koch Bros, etc. A vote for RP is a vote for the Tea Party, look at his son for example, the MSM downplayed his Tea Party connections just before the last election. RP ain’t nothin’ more than a front man the mega polluters, warmongers, freedom haters, oil tycoons, etc the Koch Bros. The media dumbs you down and you do crazy things sheeple…

  • Anonymous

    Another Ad Hominem, your Ad Hominem arguments are useless… Shows your lack of ability to argue the actual points.

  • Anonymous

    Your Ad Hominem fallacy argument can take a hike… Along with Jamie and his buddies.

  • Anonymous

    Here’s a question for all the “I’d vote for Ron Paul in a minute,” “Ron Paul is GOD” Crowd: This story notes that “[Paul] drew thunderous applause for bashing the Patriot Act, US aid to foreign nations, and US military bases overseas during his speech at CPAC on Friday.”

    Now the President doesn’t write the budget, all he can do is make suggestions, and since the Republicans now control the House of Representatives where the budget process begins it could be argued with some validity, I think, that since Paul is in the House and since the Republicans are responsible for the budget that instead of telling us what he would do if he was president where he would only have an advisory, budgetary role, it might be more useful to see just how much leadership Paul shows in the House and how well he is able to bring Boehner and the other Republicans in the leadership along by getting them to support his suggestions on the military and foreign aid budgets he made at CPAC and elsewhere regarding his ideas for spending cuts.

    It’s my sincere belief that if Paul can’t get these cuts in the House budget now, he isn’t going to get them in the budget as President either. If he can’t get the Republicans to cut back on military spending as a member of the Republican dominated House he won’t be delivering anything concrete on a reduced military budget ever and all his talk is merely nothing more than hot air and demonstrative of questionable leadership capabilities.

    So my question for the “Ron Paul is GOD” crowd is do you think that Paul should have to show his leadership mettle by influencing the House Republican leadership to drastically cut the Pentagon and military budget an foreign aid or are you all willing to give Paul a pass for his ineffectiveness even when the Republican Party to which he belongs controls the budgetary process?

  • Anonymous

    He’s exactly right.

    Not only that, the only difference between you and Bush Obama–Bush never covered up for a murdering international war criminal president before him.

    You win that award too.

  • Anonymous

    Did you get this brilliant claim that the ” [p]athetic obvious…are obvious and pathetic” from former President George “W” Bush, the master of the tautological statement, or is this one of your original conceptions?

  • http://www.facebook.com/ProductOfEnvironmentalMayhem Rasheed J. Mobley

    Ron Paul questions every bill that comes to the floor. He is America’s best choice for 2012.
    I want to ask you, Who do you think did 9/11?

  • Anonymous

    “Ron Paul will be the next President.” Wanna Bet?

  • Greg Eckhart

    Imagine Ron Paul might do what corporate ‘astroturf’ like Moveon.org* couldn’t do…

    To get an elected politician to actually call any President “(He’s) a war monger” and mean it…other than Kucinich and a couple of others….who really aren’t representative of any party, like Paul..

    *( the old teabag movement! inspired by the Internet, grassroots, supported by small contributions by apolitical people brought together by a common cause…cue the music…same media script meant to distract and whose only function is to protect the base from predatory issues that might screw up the agenda )

  • http://twitter.com/Howieisright Howieisright

    You and frantaylor can get lost! If you have not read all the posts the majority census is that. Buh-bye!

  • http://twitter.com/Howieisright Howieisright

    He sure lied about being able too. Really think he would have been elected had he said otherwise.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p12cAclNCRU

  • http://twitter.com/Howieisright Howieisright

    Lie after lie could he be anymore full of shit.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfu1_Scgyow&feature=related

  • http://twitter.com/Howieisright Howieisright
  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_NXXLSPJ2L5AVFEMKSZODNOMTHU Next

    most of these buffoons especially fran can’t distinguish the difference between what the state pays for and what the federal level pays for, and where your tax dollars go to. Fran seems to be quite ignorant on these issues. Thanks for bringing up these nuanced points that matter most but are rarely raised in debate.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_NXXLSPJ2L5AVFEMKSZODNOMTHU Next

    it’s called breaking the back of the delusional populace…once you break their back they are unwilling to resist anymore, apathy and depression sets in while the elite continue to rake in billions for themselves….DON’T think for one minute this was not masterminded by design…..

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_NXXLSPJ2L5AVFEMKSZODNOMTHU Next

    you are getting a bit too sophisticated in your points for the dullard named fran……

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_NXXLSPJ2L5AVFEMKSZODNOMTHU Next

    wrong, abortion should be a state issue, not a federal one….Let the states decide….you really love generalizations I see, unfortunately most of yours are propaganda. You really have it out for RP, as if you want to prove to the world that he is this or that. Show me a better candidate for 2012. I’d like to see who you are interested in voting for president? Obama??

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_NXXLSPJ2L5AVFEMKSZODNOMTHU Next

    talk about not making any sense…you call someone for state rights a control freak while you believe a federal blanket law is NOT? controlling? I would think people would have MORE choice with the states handling this issue, and people then can vote with their feet by moving to the state they want. Sorry, your arguments hold zero credibility.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_NXXLSPJ2L5AVFEMKSZODNOMTHU Next

    this fran guy is alarmingly stupid …

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_NXXLSPJ2L5AVFEMKSZODNOMTHU Next

    The problem with this country is that you have idiots like one prominently idiotic posters in this thread, I won’t mention names, but these idiots are so vociferous, are so filled with hate, are so blinded by ignorance that they will do everything they can to fight against someone that is for the constitution, for ending the wars, for shutting down the fed. reserve, for ending the corporate fascist control of our country, for prosecuting financial terrorists/criminals…etc. etc. It’s becoming obvious to me that when you deal with the most honest man in congress today you are going to be hated. He wants to change the system, and in doing so he is making very big enemies that are pro war, pro neocon agenda, pro bail-out, pro federal reserve. RP speaks the truth and for that he will forever be hated, irrational as it seems, a large part of it is a smear campaign because RP is not going away, not folding his tent, and his following is stronger than any republicrat is willing to admit to.

  • http://twitter.com/Howieisright Howieisright

    They like presidents who lie and can not be trusted. Real pathological lier shit running everywhere.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rLcG8GKM8g&feature=related

  • Anonymous

    That’s what he said.

    Go ahead look it up. He voted for it.

  • Anonymous

    “while you believe a federal blanket law is NOT? controlling?”

    The federal law guarantees the right to an abortion. It EXPLICTLY says that it DOES NOT CONTROL. Wake up!

    “I would think people would have MORE choice with the states handling this issue”

    You are WRONG. They have choice RIGHT NOW. You want to take that away.

    “then can vote with their feet by moving to the state they want.”

    That is bullshit. This is only possible for people with money. You are an elitist snob.

  • Anonymous

    What is funny? Ron Paul voted TWICE to continue the charade! He voted twice so he could marvel at the things that he could never do. Clinton is 10 times the man Paul will ever be.

  • Anonymous

    Hey asshole I know you are talking about me. why not be straightforward. I guess that passive agressive shit is more your thing.

    Call me out and I will shove every one of your points straight up your skinny white ass.

    Okay let’s get started:

    “for ending the corporate fascist control of our country” What is the plan? How the fuck is he supposed to do that? You are dreaming. Your stupid “free market” mumbo jumbo just makes them even richer.

    “for prosecuting financial terrorists/criminals” This is the job of the justice department, not the president. Or are you saying that Ron Paul is going to preside over some kind of kangaroo court himself?

    “when you deal with the most honest man in congress today” Oh you mean the guy who said he was against the border fence when in fact he voted for it? Do you mean the guy who accused Obama of being a “warmonger” when he voted to “take action” against the 9/11 perps before we knew who they were? Do you mean the guy who says he stands for “civil rights” when in fact he wants poor women to die from illegal abortions? Do you mean the guy who says he’s against the war but conveniently “forgets” to show up to vote against it? Look at his fucking voting record, it’s out there.

    Go ahead just try to tell us that your drug-fueled “libertarian” fiction has any merit. Ayn Rand was a hopeless druggie. Her fiction only makes sense to her fellow meth addicts. Tell me is that your kind of hero?

    Ron Paul stands for none of that stuff. He just enjoys seeing his name in the paper so he says shit to get more press. He would sell your grandmother to BP for a free tank of gas. How do you think he got to be a politician? Every single one of them is 100% corrupt, Paul included. He is even worse because he pretends to be good. Man he sure has you snookered.

    Oh and by the way he will be 81 years old in 2016. Do you honestly think an 81 year old man is going to have the mental faculties to run our country? You are dreaming.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_TYIU3QOWDZ4SVYF5M2IFHO52V4 Gray Rider

    I’ll name names…frantaylor wants to be queen and breed princesses. She’s soooo smart, how can we refuse?

    The best way to spot exceptional ignorance is to listen for those who claim “great knowledge.”

    For some, no matter how badly Body Odor performs and no matter how many times he stabs progressives, democrats, anti-war activists in the back as he continues the destruction of the middle class economy, he will still be deemed perfect.

    But taint even the issue, we all knew when he got elected that he would be just another neutered talking head for the Corps and Banks. They set the example with Kennedy and I don’t sense an ounce of courage in BO, so no way he’ll ever stand up for us peons. Well, we all knew except for frantaylor et al.

    I’d love to see Ron get the chance to debate BO and rub his nose in the endless war mongering.

    BO Stinks Same As Bush.

  • Anonymous

    Doctor Paul, wants to give corporations free reign and expects no wars. Life just doesn’t work that way, history is testament.

    Does he believe President Obama would have started a war? Of course not.
    Ron Paul wouldn’t intentionally start one either, but, as President, he would certainly find himself leading one.

    This comment from Paul is political gamesmanship, nothing more.

    “I want to cut the militarism, the interventionism, the stuff that hurts us, that makes us more vulnerable,”

    Uh, how does that reconcile with a hands-off attitude toward corporations?

  • Anonymous

    Obama is both pro-war and pro-corporation. At least Paul has one of the two right.

  • Iconoclasm

    Hey Fran, you’re a retard! I’m not moving anywhere. Anyone that does like taxes is extremely questionable in the sanity department, Please don’t respond to my posts, I don;t like to be associated with mind controllled dimwits,

    TAXATION IS JUST A EUPHEMISM FOR ARMED ROBBERY!

  • Balthazars Rebellion

    Ha Ha ha! Now that’s funny.

  • Balthazars Rebellion

    Yes they did. But…the Eygyptians are stronger in spirit and courage. They are more passionate and determined than the average American. Americans expect to have their freedom “handed” to them without lifting a finger. Like a delivery from fedEx, and it’s such a pain in the ass to walk down to the mailbox to get it. Without moving away from their keyboards. And most certainly, without…getting dirty. Fighting for freedom is hard work, it’s dangerous work and it takes guts and real set of balls. Americans have been conditioned over the decades to be soft, fearful and lazy. I’de love for revolution to sweep our nation and win back our country. I guess things aren’t bad enough…but when it does get bad, I suppose Americans will just whine louder. When it gets unbearable, Americans will just probably cry and feel sorry for themselves and their life of slavery.

  • Balthazars Rebellion

    God dammit Rawstory!! Move that Like button to the other side of the page will ya!!? fran…you have shit for brains. you sound as if you are a thirteen year old little puke. You also remind me of the douche bags on digg that used the same Zero IQ language as you to falsely bash and accuse Ron Paul in 2008. It looks very familiar and smells like shit just like it did back then.

  • Balthazars Rebellion

    It’s very clear that you didn’t read it.

  • Anonymous

    Ron Paul ought to run in the Democratic primaries in 2012. He’s to the left of Obama, so he’d have a pretty good shot at winning the Democratic nomination.

  • Anonymous

    The AfPak. Iraq wars are as evil as anything the Nazis did when fighting WWII. Not the liquidations which were far worse but the actions of the Luftwaffe, Wehrmacht, and the Waffen SS were no more disgusting than the actions of the Pentagon. In ordering these actions President Obama is without doubt a war criminal, guilty of waging aggressive war and crimes against humanity. You go Ron Paul! Redeem America’s honor.

  • Anonymous

    I have a question for all you PaulHeads: What does Ron Paul think about Pinochet?

  • Anonymous

    Ron has some issues I surely disagree with, but this is the main issue in town, by a light year.

    Assuming the non-return of Jesus or something like him, Ron would get my vote–as half a working brain ought to comprehend in ten seconds or less: http://www.warresisters.org/pages/piechart.htm

    If Katherine Anne Porter were around, I’d encourage her to write another compelling novel, titled “The Young Asinine Ship of Fools,” or YAF, for brevity.

  • Iconoclasm

    I used to think that way, until I realized that there is really nothing wrong with the system we have except for the fact of where the interest is going, and that would be in the pockets of the Criminal Banksters Cartel. This system would work fine if it was close ended and the government was not allowed to buy on credit and if all interest went to pay for government to operate.That would make it VOLUNTARY! There is more interest generated through the banking system than taxes generated through taxation and some have put that figure as high as 6 times more money! Go here to see that proposal. http://www.notaxesnow.org/ Gold backed currency is not really neccesary.

    This country was created a police state.. Of course everyone, including myself, has been hoodwinked, propagandized and indoctrinated through the government run indoctrination clinics (euphemisically referred to as the Public School System) to believe otherwise. That happens in all countries. Any time the populace of a so called country is forced to pay for the operations of government at gunpoint you have a police state, no matter what they tell you!

    The United States of America is an artificial entity. It DOES NOT exist in nature, It’s nothing more than the Boy Scouts on steroids. Most people are so brainwashed. like frantaylor that they cannot concieve of a world without taxation. The human mind is so susceptable to indoctrination that they have no clue that an artificial entity is controlling them.

    When King George was evicted from this country, all left standing rose to his level. They became sovereign entities and were the freest any people had ever been. That only lasted until the Founding Fathers (who have since been enshrined on pedestals) created this government. They had a right to create the government, they DID NOT, however, have a right to force everyone to opt in and pay for it.

    Consider this. If no one is born with the authority to tell anyone else what to do, then how do two people combine their NON EXISTENT authority and order the third? Voting is a criminal act whenever it impinges on the freedom of another!

    Good people create government to protect themselves from the crininals, unfortunately, the best and brightest criminals adapt and run for office

    BREAK THE SHACKLES OF YOUR INDOCTRINATION, OPEN YOUR MIND

  • Anonymous

    I think he has the balls to make the cuts, and would if he had the bully pulpit. But the other thing is I don’t see his alternative, at least not yet.

    I am far from a Ron Paul fanatic, and I don’t honestly see that politics is going to ultimately save anyone, let alone our species.

  • Anonymous

    Nice sentiment, but the two conflict. It’s not possible to be pro corporation and anti-war, so Doctor Paul is mistaken. Does he expect he can just de-fund activities that protect “American interests” abroad?

  • Jaimie11

    Bal, if you click “like” by mistake, just click it again and it takes back your “like”.

  • Anonymous

    The Eric Cantor crowd is definitely on the right side of God if one believes the view that a Rabbi Kook the Elder, another influential and much revered Jewish leader, expressed. “The difference, he said between, a Jewish soul and the souls of non-Jews — all of them in all different levels — is greater and deeper than the difference between a human soul and the souls of cattle.” So much for those who dare think Mr. Paul is a GOD.

  • Anonymous

    Spot on p_a. Pagasse is prime example.

  • DesertSun59

    “He’s a war monger,” Rep. Paul added. “He’s expanding the war. My numbers would be much bigger running against Obama than they will be running against some conservative in the Republican primary.”

    A lie.
    And a false political assertion.

    Par for a Teatard.

  • CozmicSeer

    So, if you would have been a representative at the the voting of HR 64, would you have stood up and said that it was a fraud and then voted against it? Or would you have been happy with them doing nothing about the attacks on 9-11 rather than being responsive about it(and in your opinion becoming oriented toward militarism)?

  • Anonymous

    I agree completely

  • Anonymous

    I’m trying to figure out the “lying dems” part of the argument. I hear this alot! Ron Paul is a joke, we won’t win anything.

  • Jaimie11

    Paul has not made any promises – and besides I do not know anyone who supports his entire personal philosophy as one the whole nation SHOULD embrace. The mere thought of a personal philosophy the nation should embrace is counter to Paul’s political philosophy.

    Most of his supporters from all, liberal, independent, and conservative, perspectives are attracted to his understanding of how the federal reserve is the US branch of a criminal banking cartel, and why we must extinguish its power and take back the people’s ownership and control of our own money system.

    Ron Paul has integrity and has been a thorn in the sides of both parties for too many years to count. I personally do not hold any hopes he will become president, in fact, I think if he were to come close to being nominated he would suffer the usual consequences meted out to those regarded as pariahs to the corrupt system that is propped up and perpetuated by both Democrats and Republicans. A possible coalition of Paul and Nader, or Kucinich, or McKinney (my personal preference) is attractive, very attractive. But the MSM would most likely destroy its public image. Still, correct information about the money system and its connections to endless war would leak out and spread.

    The vast majority of the American people have no concept that the federal reserve is not a government agency. Why must I, as one in the minority, continue to be subjected to majority rule when that majority is so ignorant and unconcerned with the difficult realities besetting us? I am in support of anyone who is willing to challenge the status quo and enlighten those who believe the pretty stories they’ve been told about how free we are, how special we are, how good we are – when all that is merely window dressing covering the banksters’ crimes. Taking back control of our money system is step one of a peaceful revolution that will open our political options.

  • Realbluesky

    I cannot stand Ron Paul. He has a likable personality, but he is a dangerous man. His ideas would be catastrophic to America. However, he is right on this one. Afghanistan is Obama’s war now. He took possession of it and, like Lyndon Johnson did with Vietnam, just can’t seem to let it go. There is no reason for the United States to be in Afghanistan. There is no reason for America to be pouring billions and billions of dollars down this rat-hole. Why do we never learn the lessons of history? I guess it’s because the educational system is so f%^ked up that nobody knows history.

  • Anonymous

    Kinda funny that a Paul supporter who is supposed to be a freethinker and so smart that Ron Paul would give them the freedom to figure what is wrong with America and come up with their own solutions couldn’t figure that out for themselves, huh! And isn’t telling them, and working with them like this to help them, socialistic?

  • Rush Goofbaugh

    Yes but would he install a democracy? I don’t think so…. and that’s too bad.

  • Guest

    THAT IS EXACTLY RIGHT. You area all missing the point. Thank you, jjhuyzinga.

  • Jaimie11

    Don’t you find it intrusive or even slightly suspicious that government has managed to insert itself into almost everything we do?

    If your internal camera or microphone is turned on, do you like being spied on by the criminal government? Do you like the fact that 9/11 has been the excuse used to strip you of your 4th Amendment rights? Why is it that you love this government so much, that treats you like a nincompoop, that steals your money, that defines such natural states as life and death substituting its definitions for those of nature, as if the fabrication of government is greater than its matrix?

    I suspect you have not thought about this very deeply – that you have accepted the lie that the only way to help the poor, the sick, the downtrodden is to leave it to government. Well, you see the mess that has engendered. Our money stolen and lining the pockets of the criminal oligarchs, their bankers, and their political class lackeys, feeding endless wars and creating misery and poverty, disease and despair, in their quest to own the entire globe. All the while they do this we are to believe they have only the best of intentions. Ha!

  • Guest

    Jaimie 11 FOR PRESIDENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Jaimie11

    “don’t understand the evil” the truest thing you’ve said about yourself Gino.

  • Jaimie11

    Back under your bridge with you, Pag. You’re out of your element.

  • Jaimie11

    Boneman, thanks for the support, but not so fast. We are all only learning.

  • Jaimie11

    Iconoclasm, with all respect, your guy is so far out on the fringe he stands no chance of anyone taking him seriously enough that he could be productive on any significant scale.

    But answer me this – if money is not based in the value of a commodity, how is it valued? And if you base it in the value of something you do not own, is that not an automatic set up for war for the acquisition of that which you do not own?

  • Anonymous

    The Paulists, including Jaimie11 are big supporters of Paul’s diversionary tactic of ending the fed. I call it diversionary because in a global economy, the drivers of inflation are diverse and inflation itself to use a word from psychology, is multipli-determined. But the Paulists still call for ending “the fed” because they believe that the fed is responsible for the problems associated with inflation. According to their proffered world view if we ended the fed and returned to the gold standard all that inflation stuff would in Marx’s terminology “melt away” because it isn’t capitalist financial interests like Goldman Sachs and others moving into commodity markets that are driving up the prices of commodities, it is “the Fed” printing the money that it is loaning to the government that is responsible for all our ills or is it?

    Here are two stories that challenge that rather simplistic and diversionary view. Maybe one of the more erudite Paulists, that is someone with much more intelligent than some stupid schmuck like who just likes to get slapped around, could actually explain how “the fed” is driving up commodity prices world wide.

    These two inter-related stories from today’s NYT, any reader, with some justification based on the Times record can slam the messenger, but what if, these stories actually reflect what is occurring? How does “the fed” drive up food prices in China. And even more telling is the claim in the story on China that they are changing how they compute inflation by lessening the effect of the rise in food prices and increasing the role of housing prices to bring the inflationary number down. Where else have we seen this kind of inflation denying number manipulating hanky-panky in order to massage the government’s official rendition of “the facts on the ground.”

    “Companies Raise Prices as Commodity Costs Jump”

    “Many big companies, facing higher raw material costs, say they cannot hold off any longer and must raise prices to protect profits.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/15/business/15prices.html?hp

    “Inflation Hits Nearly 5% in China, With Food Costs Soaring”

    “BEIJING — Consumer prices in China rose 4.9 percent in January when compared with the same month a year earlier, the government reported Tuesday, as inflation continued to bedevil the economy.

    “The rise in prices was less than expected, but some economists said the data was difficult to judge because the statistics bureau recalculated the index to give less weight to food costs and more weight to housing costs.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/15/business/global/15chinaecon.html

  • Anonymous

    I’m more interested in what he thinks about Karzai?

  • Jaimie11

    thanks for that video – excellent.

  • Anonymous

    How do you know what posts I have or have not read? Did the majority of Raw Story Posters do a secret straw poll? So, you attack me with an Ad Hominem argument, and I have to leave? This is a real interesting vote. Exactly what majority are you talking about? It would be impossible to read “all the posts”. What does that mean? You butted in between me and Jamie… Did you read all of our posts that led up to that exchange? If not, then why are you commenting on it for? Are you a monitor for Raw? I didn’t tell you to leave, I said your “fallacy argument can take a hike”. Dude, your logic doesn’t add up. Too may generalities and assertions… Have I ever commented on one of your posts before this one?

  • Anonymous

    The only point I wanted to make with the video Jamie, is that RP is a Tea Party founder. Which means that he is in bed with Mr Koch, who is against regulating polluting industries, so, I ask you, How can you assert that RP will go after such polluters? He would have to go against his very own support group, if he is indeed in bed with the Tea Party, no?

  • Jaimie11

    Look, bobcat, the way the game is played with the two party system – if the Repub votes had not been a clear majority for whatever reason, then Dems would have changed enough of theirs to make sure the War Party’s interests are advanced.

    Don’t you know that everyone’s vote is a known before the actual vote is taken? If adjustments must be made to insure passage or defeat, then the bribes and coercions or outright threats are made behind the scenes.

    The left/right divide is merely a propaganda tool of the oligarch War Party to keep it in power.

  • Guest

    Correct!

    “Currently our money is based in debt only, no value at all. When you want to buy a car, your loan is approved and the central bank creates $25000 out of thin air. It did not exist yesterday, but today it appeared and paid for your shiny new car.”

    And how does the government do this (without our approval)? They have made your name a strawman. What is that? It is a third party. A fictional entity the government deals with but you are responsible for. I will not get into how to change that but it can be done. When you go out to get your mail today, look at how your name is spelled. It’s spelled with all capital letters. Your real name, the one that goes into the history books, your God given name is not spelled with all capital letters. That is how we are all being (present tense) hoodwinked. The corporations run our government. If they didn’t and the People were the governments main focus there would not be such fraudulent policies.

    When you finance or use credit you are accepting slavery. It’s not hard, we all do it everyday. With your signature. With your signature you create money out of thin air. Go to the bank and ask for a loan. The money you will get (usually in the form of digits) did not exist before you signed on the dotted line.

    It will only be a matter of time before such a dysfunctional system is found out (by the collective) or failed. When I see ben bernanke sitting there answering questions I have to try to suppress laughter watching him lie straight through his filthy teeth because he knows it’s a ponzi scheme of the most gargantuan proportions that will make (people are bound to find out) madoff feel like a saint.

    But truly. We are to blame. We have allowed it to happen and continue to allow it. The government will only respond to the heartbeat of the People. If we allow such charades at the expense of our families and our environment then we are also corrupt. Maybe not knowingly but ignorantly. It is not hard to imagine the lopsided amount of people who would take the profits at the expense of everyone else. Now don’t get me wrong… profit is good when it is deserved but the profit the fed enjoys is truly demonic.

  • Balthazars Rebellion

    Nice. Thanks…

  • Guest

    heh heh heh heh, yeah… that’s it!

  • Guest

    RRRReeeeeeaaaaaalllllllly!

  • Guest

    Not to keep us isolated from the world francis. But to bolster our defences (sorry I couldn’t resist the pun).

  • Jaimie11

    Here’s a polluting industry that is regulated by the FDA, an agency almost entirely owned by the industry it regulates, and yet it is funded by the people. Have you no problem with that?

    200000 injuries and deaths per year due to dangerous prescription drugs, and there is no effective regulation. At the time of the Chinese melamine scandal, the FDA’s melamine content in baby formula powder was zero, zilch, nada. Within two months of the scandal, scandal part deux occurred when the FDA increased the “safe” levels of melamine in baby formula against the advice of pediatricians.

    Regulation by government agency has been corrupted and needs a complete take down and possibly a renewal but using constitutionally provided remedies. But before that can occur, the criminal debt based money system must be dissolved and replaced with a legal people owned system. That would automatically defund the corporatocracy, its deceits and malfeasances would fall and its endless wars finally cease.

    I should add, there is no love lost between myself and the oligarchic Koch boys, and I will look into their relationship with Paul and what influence they might exert on him

  • Guest

    There are not enough honest people in the SCOTUS for the regulations you speak of to work. I simply can not imagine how we will overcome the corruption other than starting with ourselves. Consciousness is our only hope now… the evolution of spirit.

  • Guest

    Yeah, the abstinence thing. Such self-righteous pricks.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    Pretext or not, 3 days after the attacks it made sense to officially state “we will defend ourselves at all costs”. That’s what HR-64 was about.

    The act that authorized “going into Iraq at the President’s discretion and staying until he feels we’re done” was “Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002″.. that resolution was the one based on lies and manipulations by the Bush admin, and Paul voted AGAINST it.

    So be clear. 3 days after we were attacked, Paul voted to “defend the nation”, but a year after the attack, in the midst of all the lies and distortions of the Bush Admin, Paul said “no, protracted conflict with Iraq doesn’t make sense”.

    Therefore, it is a misrepresentation to imply that “ever agreeing to defend” the country is the same as “war mongering”. Bush was a warmonger, and Paul voted against it. …. I don’t like Paul in general, but he got that one right.. and only 6 Republicans did. One can conclude, reasonably, that warmongering is a right-wing pastime.

  • Jaimie11

    But sun, please do give me the time stamp of the portion you want me to view. I’m not being flip and deliberately ignoring it. I just really do not like maddow’s attitude of superiority and correctness while she is de facto defending the oligarchs’ regime. It sickens me, the way all well-crafted disingenuousness does.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    You’re conflating 3 days after the attacks with a year after the attacks. Everyone in Congress should have voted on HR-64 to allow the President to defend the nation.. and Paul voted _against_ going into Iraq a year later, despite the “propaganda”.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    There were no protests 3 days after the attack.. the protests came during that year before going into Iraq (and those were pretty minimal as most people are too stupid to have noticed the lies that were being told at the time).

  • Guest

    Learning is done with an open mind. I trust reticence, open mindedness, equality, and fairness of spirit.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    See, this is where you fall on your face. 3 days after the attacks, HR-64, had nothing to do with Iraq. Period. I read the resolution to understand your position. You seem to not understand that HR-64 was a general call to arms to defend the nation, and it made sense given the limited knowledge everyone had access to AT THE TIME. However, over the course of the year leading up to the invasion of Iraq, facts were readily available despite the non-stop propaganda.. and Paul had the facts (one of only a FEW Congress critters that did) and voted AGAINST going into Iraq. Period. Paul voted against the invasion of Iraq.

    Get that through your head. Paul voted for defending the nation days after we were attacked.. and voted _against_ invading Iraq because Paul knew Iraq had nothing to do with us being attacked.

  • Guest

    Honestly Jamie11? You should change your style. Every time somebody makes a point and instead of countering it with one of your own you go straight to personal attacks your credibility goes down.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    Planes didn’t hit those towers? Those towers didn’t fall? 3000 people weren’t killed? Paul voted to find “those guys”, whoever they were. HR-64 was about defense.. honest, righteous defense.

    Paul voted _against_ going into Iraq in 2002. It was the 2002 vote that let Bush illegally invade Iraq, and Paul was on the side of facts at that point. HR-64 did NOT authorize the invasion of Iraq..

  • Anonymous

    I agree Obama is a warmonger like bush, but if we aren’t supporting wars we certainly can cut military spending. We have more weapons than all other countries combined. We certainly don’t need more. Our country needs to fix our infra structure, restore the cuts to education and enable all in our country to have single payer health care. Our country needs to concentrate on restoring the middle class as our country is fueled by the middle class. We need to give opportunities to the poor so they can lift themselves up and out of poverty. The trickle down theory has been proven to work only for the rich. The tax cuts for the rich only help the rich while everyone else suffers and slips farther and farther into poverty. The rich are clouded by their own greed and because of that many Americans are stuck on stupid. I expected more from Obama and he has deeply disappointed me by aligning himself with the republicans who want to carry on the same failed policies of reagan and bush. It makes no sense, yet they stubbornly want to keep going backwards. Why is it the only time Obama wants to look backwards is when he is using the failed economic policies of past administrations?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KJJ4KEVT2Z5RDHTIRGJOUWL2EA Paul M

    Rep Ron Paul does have some very progressive idealism of what the government should be doing as part of reducing defense spending and it´s autocratic governing styles. But let´s not “deceive” our selves. Every President who has occupied the white house is introduced to the power´s that be indirectly most of the time, through their lobbyist or even eventually being invited to one of those meetings (secretive), where He or She is blatantly told who is really in Power and what you can and cannot do or say. Period.

    So, if you think Mr. Paul is going to be able to practice what he preaches, so to say, then you are being very delusional and extremely optimistic at best. Mr. Paul is an intelligent man and he also knows how the game is played and who the heavy players are. Sure the people want significant change, but Mr. Paul will surely have to see the reality of government and will have to eventually fall in “lock-step” just as ALL his predecessors have had to do.

    Mr. Paul cannot challenge “The Great System” alone and win. the key to bringing America back to a sovereign nation upholding the principles of a true democracy has always and forever be in the hands of it´s citizens. If any change in government is to be, it must come from within the power´s of it´s people.

  • parrots_abound

    Troll is obvious

  • parrots_abound

    Your hatred of Ron Paul fuels me. I shall lick your tears and pain as sustenance.

  • parrots_abound

    You too troll scum…back under the bridge with you.

  • Jaimie11

    Here big mammal, go to the original bit of disinformation at the beginning of this thread. An appalling misrepresentation of the facts and the context. A complete fail from the one sided perspective of FranTaylor. I’d suggest you take a deeper look at your own perspective – how much of it is created by the misinforming MSM? How much of it really produces effects consistent with your values, presumably your high values?

    “Ron Paul voted YES on HJ Resolution 64 authorizing the President to use force in responding to the “9/11 attackers”.

    He is just another “shoot first and ask questions later” war monger.

    “I want to cut the militarism, the interventionism,” It’s bullshit.”

    Propaganda does nothing but conceal the crimes being perpetrated upon us.

  • Jaimie11

    What do you mean by reticence in this context?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    The problem with pretending that being dependent on the government is bad is that the alternative is to be dependent on the private sector, who, without government safeguards, would be free to abuse you at will.

    You’re seeing a corrupted government, one being taken over by the people you would champion as heroes.. The United States is falling into Fascism, which is exactly where it would be if we didn’t have any government regulation (no government) to start with, and the corporations wanted to assert their power. The government was started to protect us from fascism, it was started by the general public (you and me) as a means to hold off abusers (people that would lie to you to get you to buy things.. snake oil salesmen, people claiming their pill could change your life, etc. etc…. and people that would poison your food and water and air while making the products they lie about).

    Just like with business, you get an efficiency of scale through government. You have the ability to plan large scale projects that benefit the public, things the public wants/needs (water, roads, etc.), and you do it without the waste and inefficiency of thousands of separate people all going in their own direction.

    A functioning government is your friend, it is you. The problem we have in the U.S. is that our government is no longer “us”, but is a tool of the ruling elite who want to abuse you. But you have to keep the concept apart from the incarnation.. the concept is a Universal Truth (we need governments), the incarnation is being tainted. So, we need to take our government back.. not destroy our only protection from abusers.

    And taxation is not theft. It is an unfortunate reality, a cost of existing in large groups where we want something.. nothing in life is free; you have to decide if you want the few with the biggest sticks running the show, of if you want to pool your resources with your neighbors and have a bigger stick to make sure you’re not abused. That stick, no matter who has it, costs money.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    Your issue is with the criminal/rich class hijacking your government.. not with the government proper. Until you can clearly see the distinction, you’re playing into the hands of the criminal bankers, et. al. They would LOVE to get rid of the government.. it would be MUCH easier for them to abuse you.. as it is, they are stuck trying to keep corrupting the system. In fact, it is the Koch brothers and other pro-corporate jerkoffs that are pushing the “just disband government” meme… only, they won’t leave it disbanded for long.. they will form their own police/military groups and will build their own contract law arbiters, only they will do it _without_ you in mind, without your rights in consideration.

    From the ashes of the government they burned down, they would create a new government free from all the protections of citizens that currently exist.. their slow dismantling of the current system is a glimpse into what they would love to do.. including being able to turn on your web-cam and mic at will.

  • http://twitter.com/Howieisright Howieisright

    Talking about posts on this headline and you and Fran are the new ones here. Hate to break it to you but your comment about Koch brothers relation with RP holds no water. I am talking about money contributions and you are talking about some slander on a Rachel Maddow show. It is a fact that the Democratic party is bought off too by money backers George Soros and Harold Ickes. Get it hypocrite!

  • http://twitter.com/Howieisright Howieisright

    He is like a fine wine gets better with age.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    “they cannot concieve of a world without taxation. ”

    Of course we can! .. but we LIKE our police, firefighters, roads, air ports, hospitals, buses, trains, clean air, clean water… etc. etc. All of that costs money. History proved that you can’t rely on the “private sector” to provide for such things, the people have to stand united to be assured of such things and to be assured they are available to all people.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    “then how do two people combine their NON EXISTENT authority and order the third?”

    As noted over and over, you’re applying faulty logic. If you don’t want to be a part of the group, you have the option to leave. “Those two” have an agreement and they are occupying a certain piece of space. If you want to be in their space with them, you agree to the rules they already agreed to or you leave the space. It’s quite simple.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    Ugh.. It’s people like you that make it so hard to be Progressive/Liberal in this country. You’re as deluded as any right-winger, you ignore facts and twist things to suit your own agenda. It’s pathetic.

    Paul voted against invading Iraq in 2002, when the resolution was proposed. Period. That’s the fact.

  • Anonymous

    Has anyone else noticed how I suddenly became persona not grata, i.e. a stupid troll who lives under a bridge, as soon as I said that I only read Austrian School partisans in order to be able to refute their views.

    I find that whole flip flop telling and not a little condescending! And so demonstrative of the Ron Paul ideology of freedom and free thinking! Yes, think for yourself, but unless your thinking brings you my preferred conclusions you lack depth of thought and you can’t perceive “the truth” but more importantly should you fail to reach the conclusions which I personally approve, you are less than human!

    How’s that for freedom, democracy, freedom of thought and acceptance of other opinions! Teaching by example? Perhaps!

  • http://twitter.com/Howieisright Howieisright

    Well lets audit it and find out.

  • Anonymous

    You can’t say just the Repukicans are the ones that cherry pick talking points…This is what all politicians do.

    I am still baffled that there are people that defend one party over the other. When, in reality, none of these guys give a shit about you. Stop backing these political parties, because they sure as hell don’t back you.

    With that said, Ron Paul probably is the best fit for our country. But whoever we vote for, they are going to screw us in the end.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    Misguided immigration enforcement policy. That’s what it is.. it has nothing to do with Isolationism. Isolationism deals with trade/commerce as well. That wall isn’t going to stop the trucks of good coming up or the trucks of corn going down.

  • Anonymous

    You way overestimate your grammar. Overestimating Americans is stil better than underestimating the rest of the world.

  • Anonymous

    Anything else happening in your alternate universe?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    You have no more right to bitch about your taxes going to provide legal medical procedures for women than you have a right to bitch about money going to police or fire departments or military or the FDA or EPA. You don’t get to single out where you tax dollars go, it’s a packed deal. The money goes into a giant black box and bills are paid, all bills, even if you don’t like that a particular bill is there.

  • Guest

    Before understanding is reached. As in “not so fast.”

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    I don’t believe that bill has reached Obama yet. In fact, I don’t think that bill is through the Senate (nor will it make it through).

    you might as well say “Obama hasn’t executed the assassins from Mars!”, it holds as much logical weight.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    Protecting all citizen’s rights is the purview of the Federal Government. States have no right to violate individual rights, and the Federal Government is free to clarify that position.

  • Anonymous

    Taxes are great, as long as they are spending those funds prudently…which they don’t. Government is great, as long as it is being administered prudently…which it’s not. So when this type government is in charge of taxes, things are bound to fail. I am not talking democrat or republican. I am talking about all governments in the history of our planet. People are very imperfect, so when they run other people, it is also going to end up imperfect.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    Wrong, protecting the rights of the individual is clearly and explicitly the Federal Government’s job. If any given State would seek to abuse the rights of citizens, the Federal Government has the authority to shut down that State’s policy. Period.

    Additionally, no State has the authority to pass any law that contradicts the Supreme Court’s rulings on the matter. States keep wasting tax-payer money passing laws they KNOW they will have to defend in court, laws they KNOW will fail to stand up to Constitutional tests.

    and your better candidate for 2012 would be either Sanders or Kucinich.. but both of those guys know they don’t’ have the backing of the abusive corporate world. Without the right-wing media and corporations, candidates are not “viable”, and the only viable candidates these days are corporate whores (like Obama and Paul).

  • Anonymous

    You are 100% wrong my friend. Just because people report fictional profits, doesn’t mean profit is fictional. No wonder our economy is shot to shit, we have people in this country that think profits aren’t real. It’s the same people that rely on their government entirely too much.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    If what you’re doing on your private property has the ability to destroy the lives of those people who’s property is near yours, it IS “our” business.

  • Anonymous

    Around 1:20 or so, she starts talking about RP and his “billionaire” buddies and how they founded the Tea Party… I’m not crazy about Maddow either –but the facts are the facts… Either he is one of the TP founders, and therefore belongs (directly or indirectly) to that group or not.

    Anyway, another source that ties RP to the Tea Party is his very own son, Rand.

    The MSM downplays these ties during election cycles because they don’t want ppl to really think about the fact that they are supporting the very monsters they are against, Kochs (who are very rarely associated with the TP on the MSM), etc.

    And most ppl don’t seem to think that deep about it anyway (not necessarily talking about you), so, I’m probably just wasting time…

    I guess all that TP stuff doesn’t bother you though, judging from your post below, which I just read. But in that case, I think you might want to add some smog-gray and lots of blood-red color into that picture of yours…

    And I still believe you and RP followers are naive to think that RP is really going to achieve a “complete take down and possibly a renewal but using constitutionally provided remedies”, it may sound romantic to some, but, to me, it just sounds same-ol’-same-ol’… Peace Out

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    You have the right to sue him to stop him.. and if he has more money (better lawyers), or you die, who gives a shit if you have the right to sue him.. you’re still dead or destitute from the fight.

    It is a monumentally stupid and inefficient plan. It’s the main reason I can’t get behind Paul.. giving corporations free roam and telling individuals they should compete in a court room with billions in cash-profits is insanity.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KJJ4KEVT2Z5RDHTIRGJOUWL2EA Paul M

    Very well said. I knew of one or two of his voting practices, you are on target. But since a surprising amount of people wanted to hang onto “straws”, I didn´t challenge…kudos to you.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    When did it expire?

  • Anonymous

    You hit it right on the head. I think Jefferson said that “Government is a Necessary Evil”. The founding fathers knew this. They knew that government is great as long as it is used properly by THE PEOPLE. It hasn’t been ran by the people since after WWII. It’s too bad the ignorant republicans and democrats don’t understand this. Instead, they bend backwards for people whoe are bending them over.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    The extension is being passed. At least in the House, we’ll have to see if it gets through the Senate (I’m sure it will.. too many Blue Dogs and spineless Dems).

    And the current extension is shorter than Obama wanted. Obama wants it through 2013.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    And nothing to refute anything noted. Why is that? Are you hearing some reality that you don’t like, can’t square with your personal view but don’t want to give up?

  • Guest

    Their dismantling of our government began when they became the federal reserve. What you see now is a parade in full force to keep the illusion of governance while we are thrown bits and pieces to keep us satisfied until we are branded with their bar code. We do not have government anymore and RP is trying to shake us awake and get us involved in a functional way.

    After 911 we did not wake up… we were kept asleep being told to “go out and shop!” And then our government did exactly the opposite of what we should have done. They went out and pissed the rest of the world off. We were united with the rest of the world in solidarity and had a unique opportunity to make a world that was closer to freedom by our unity. And if there truly was a government by the People and for the People that would have happened. It was right in our laps, it would have been so easy but because we do not have a government that cares about and serves the people we are left with an ignorant society entranced by all the cute little things they wish they could afford and have to use credit to acquire, and as such keeping US hopelessly enslaved with eyes glazed over while the parade of a government we have continues to appease the uninformed. Meanwhile the wolf raids the hen house.

  • Anonymous

    Jamie11: “she is de facto defending the oligarchs’ regime. It sickens me…”

    That’s what I’m saying you are doing – knowingly or unknowingly – then in a post below you say,

    “…there is no love lost between myself and the oligarchic Koch boys, and I will look into their relationship with Paul and what influence they might exert on him”.

    So, I would just say, I’m a bit confused as to where exactly you are coming from… If you look into it and find anything amiss, maybe you could give us a holler, eh?

    And this one Jamie11: “…the criminal debt based money system must be dissolved and replaced with a legal people owned system. That would automatically defund the corporatocracy, its deceits and malfeasances would fall and its endless wars finally cease.”

    Wow… you either believe RP is some kind of Jesus Christ or Superman type, or you are…? Hummmm… How could that be described?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    “All that money could be better spent on what human beings value. ”

    The core problem is that Paul isn’t interested on spending money on people, he’s interested in letting the few get as much as they can, turning society into a free for all. Economically, he’s far right and history has shown us that that will always end badly for the masses.

    The other major problem is that we don’t have a concusses on what “human beings value”.. The Constitution says we value human rights, but we torture anyway.. and justify it because “they aren’t Americans! their rights don’t matter!”, or some other delusional argument. People starving to death in this country, dying of curable diseases, losing everything if they get sick, rampant unemployment because corporations keep getting rich without our labor (which will only get worse as technology improves anyway).. the list goes on and on.

    Greed is a disease. It kills millions of people a year.. the debt based system is just another tool of the greedy; how you suggest we remove one tool but leave the core concept in place is beyond me.. unless, of course, you’re just mad that you’re not in on that scam and want easier access to foist abuse with.

  • Anonymous

    A tax sytem is very important in our nation. Especially sine we have such a large amount of people. But the way these people spend our money, MOST of which do not benefit me, is criminal. We really need to work together to forsake the people in our current government. We have to stop backing these crooks in all parties. It’s tough because they only give us the option to vote between a terd sandwhich and a douche.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    “Why must I, as one in the minority, continue to be subjected to majority rule ”

    But you’re not. You can leave. I’m working on leaving because as you note, the majority are idiots. The prospects of turning this country around and setting it on a sane, peaceful path are virtually non-existent. So what’s the point of futilely beating your head against the wall?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    HR-64 is a generic “find the criminals” resolution. Everyone in Congress voted for it, as they should have. We were attacked and finding the ones responsible is a no brainer.

    Paul was one of only 6 Republicans that voted _against_ invading Iraq. Iraq had nothing to do with Sept. 11, 2001, and Paul not only bothered to know that (many in Congress never bothered to get the facts), he voted against invading.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    “And it’s congress that really has most of the power”

    Not exactly. Congress can’t force troops to stay, they can only fund their staying if they support the President in staying. The President has the power to unilaterally leave Iraq and Afghanistan. War was not declared, these are discretionary invasions that are 100% controllable by the President as long as their is money there. If he doesn’t want to use the money, he doesn’t have to.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    as noted above, you’re barking up the wrong tree with HR-64. Every sane person on the planet would want to know/find/catch the people that attacked their nation. Period. The problems didn’t come to be until Bush lied about who did it, but Paul saw through it and voted _against_ going into Iraq in 2002.

  • Anonymous

    Steven Howie: “…your comment about Koch brothers (sic) relation with RP holds no water” … “the Democratic party is bought off too”, well technically you just contradicted yourself there.

    You also seem to be assuming that I support the Democratic Party as well. Guess you are just too cool for school, eh?

    And, what if my comment about the Koch brothers’ relation with RP and the TP does hold water? What will that change for you? And if it is true, maybe ask his son, Rand, and if I don’t vote Donkey, then who is the “hypocrite” in this debate (if that is the correct term in this instance)?

    Actually, I’m not really sure why I’m even talking to you except for the fact that you butted in to a debate I was having with Jamie11, and then proceeded to insult my intelligence and then me personally, and proceeded to kick my off the site, and now you continue with your BS.

    What is your actual stance on anything in this debate? It is not clear at all to me because I haven’t read all your posts (1 or 2 at the most), and nowhere does it say in the rules – as far as I know (I haven’t read them, but you probably haven’t either, n’est-ce pas?) – that you have to read all the posts in order to contribute, so, give up your unfounded, ignoramus attacks, and try to do something useful. Alles Klar?

    Dude, you are just too easy to take down in a debate, the monitor of the debate – Mr Logic – says, you are out of the debate if you can’t come up with any sound arguments.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    I’m content to defend you when you’re right. But the first 50 posts of this thread have you misrepresenting Paul on Iraq. I don’t like Paul either, but you have to be honest and give credit where credit is due. Paul voted against invading Iraq.. he did, like all sane people should have, vote to “find and apprehend whoever attacked us”. Clearly we were attacked (possibly from Cheney et. al.), and those criminals, whoever they were, needed to be found. Authorizing the President to find them makes sense… that’s all HR-64 was, permission to find the criminals, nothing more.

  • Anonymous

    I lift my glass to you my friend!

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    On my screen, the like button goes flat/gray like a window’s button that is inactive. Being a window’s programmer (occasionally, I hate windows) and user, it never would have occurred to me to click an inactive button and hope something happened. It would be like hitting a window with a hammer to break it, then expecting that hitting the hole where the window was would recreate the window.

    Poor programming is the problem here. Once you click ‘like’, it should not go gray and flat, but instead should have the text changed to “un-like” or something.

  • Jaimie11

    You presume I can leave. Where I could go to should I leave is not a place conducive to my retaining my physical health. And other places are worse than here. Besides the oligarchs have a hold world wide, not just here though here and the UK are the base of their operations. So I can’t leave.

    Anyway, I haven’t given up hope that I will see some real change in my lifetime.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    And that’s exactly why Paul won’t be supported by corporations.. even though they would love the chaos in the industry, they would lose too much by not being able to steal resources or exploit workers in other countries. Corporations are the cause of our militarism, and until you reign both in you can’t stop the empire building.

    Part of why I support Kucinich and Sanders and their ilk. They want to reign in corporations first which would facilitate pulling the tentacles of the Empire back into our shell, where they belong.

  • Anonymous

    The obvious. The fact that Ron Paul sticks in your craw and that you are probaby paid by a PAC.

  • Jaimie11

    I disagree. He proposes the states decide for themselves. He gives generously to charity as most people I know do. “We” no longer means us, the people. Don’t confuse the two. The oligarchs do not respect human rights, and as long as they are in power, there will be no change. You are choosing the evils of the oligarchs and projecting them onto the American people. Sure some people are greedy, but they are the minority and those who are overly powerful are so only through their control of our money system.

    Ron Paul offers the possibility that the federal reserve will be openly challenged and brought down. Then there will such a surplus of money to spend in that case, no-one will go without whether states choose to help the poor or leave it up to individuals.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    This is where left/right fails to adequately cover politics. left/right are locations on a scale, but we have several scales we’re dealing with.. at least two major ones. Economic and Social. Paul is left on social, but far right on economic. Sure, he wants everyone to enjoy their lives as they see fit, but he also wants to let the uber-rich, ruling elite to have unfettered ability to abuse the public in pursuit of profits. Logic and history show that without regulation, profit-mongers will cause a lot of pain and misery in the pursuit of their bloated balance sheets.

  • Jaimie11

    With respect, do you understand how the money system works, how the federal reserve is the US branch of a criminal organization?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    There are a few reasons we’re in Afghanistan.. one is we want the Taliban (who had nothing to do with Sept. 11 either) out of power.. the Taliban blocks our commerce desires in the region, the multi-national corporations want access to that land and the Taliban won’t let us in.

    Another reason we’re there is it borders Iran.. so does Iraq.. we currently have Iran surrounded. Something the right-wing wanted and Obama is facilitating until the right-wing take power again.. If we end up with a right-wing government again, I’m guessing the next war will be against Iran (they still do not have nukes and we could create a protracted war there.. lots of cash for the Haliburtons of the world, and nice distraction for while they gut the rest of our social programs and give more tax breaks to the rich).

    And the third main reason we’re there is Pakistan (bordering Afghanistan) has nukes and we’re afraid the Taliban (who Pakistan mostly supports) will influence Pakistan enough to get them to use those nukes against India or some other neighbor.. we’re trying to contain the mess we made by giving Pakistan nukes to begin with… we should have never given a 3 year old a gun, but we did.

  • Jaimie11

    Thanks I’ll give a listen.

    As for a romantic notion – it isn’t that merely, it’s standing up to the illicit powers that have taken control instead of just going along with them. When enough of the honest enough guys and gals join together, we will have a real movement. Not taking a shot at it is nihilism. A very depressing alternative. Don’t you agree?

  • Anonymous

    Is Karzai another Chicago Boys experiment a la Shock Doctrine?
    BzzzZtT!

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_GUVPHTIQW6IK4I5WIIFXWZIRIQ EatTheSheep

    Ron Paul is my president.

  • Anonymous

    Again, suppose RP did bring down the FR, What’s he going to replace it with? The gold standard? Or, what? A new, friendlier FR?

  • Anonymous

    right on, ron! obamabush the corporatist warmonger and torturer. start the war crimes trials on both administrations NOW!

    my only major complaint about paul is that he fought the ERA and is against woman’s abortion rights. though i agree that, just like i shouldn’t be extorted to pay for wars and torture, those who disapprove of abortion shouldn’t have to pay taxes tow hat they regard as immoral. and hey, how did ron paul wind up with such a loon son as rand is?

    but if it is ron paul running against obama or hillary in 2012… could be the first time i ever voted republican… and first time in many years i won’t have voted for nader…

    YAF are stupid and crazy. talk about delusional fringe element.

  • Anonymous

    hey, but at least he says that. the last president to say such was Ike… unfortunately at the end of his presidency. but as anyone who’s read history should know… the praetorian guard just allows caesar and senate to pose. pentagon gets its way or else. as for this having ever been a democracy, even that vicious indian-killer george washington said “a democratic society cannot long exist in the presence of a standing army.” and that was 235 years of standing army ago. and as the indian wars only ended in 1900… out of 235 years… 200 years of wars. only revolution can manage to overthrow, disarm and demilitarize a country. get to work, folks. and remember, mao said, “revolution is not a tea party!”

  • Anonymous

    right you are, SCM. kennedy and byrd and feingold as well, as i recall.

  • Anonymous

    Jamie11: “…do you understand how the money system works, how the federal reserve is the US branch of a criminal organization?” I’d say I understand enough to know that I agree that it “is the US branch of a criminal organization” – you have a good way with words (if those are your words), but your logic is a bit jumpy IMO. But, there, I tried to honestly and sincerely answer your question directly, maybe you could do the same for me – then we might be able to arrive at some kind of conclusion in this debate – about supporting RP or not .

  • Anonymous

    and paul, like kucinich has also expressed grave doubts as to the truth of what really occurred on 911… a day that will live in infamy… the day that gave the shadow government of NSA/CIA/FBI and the 20 other secretist cabals which now employ over 850,000 traitors and warmongers

  • Anonymous

    So Ron Paul is only sort of pregnant on this issue.

  • Anonymous

    “But you would rather run the country into the ground than acknowledge that your economic policy is based on bullshit.”

    So the country isn’t being run into the ground now? Got your head in the sand? Our deficit alone should tell you this country has been IN the ground for a while now.

  • http://www.BaltimoreGreenCurrency.org Shrapnel

    I think my reply got lost somewhere in CyberDisquisSpace.

    You speak the truth.

    May all beings be happy

  • Anonymous

    “Move to somalia if you don’t like taxes.”

    I’ve got some taxes for you to pay if you love them so much. Since I don’t think it matters to you what’s done with your taxes, please tack on an extra 10% to your April 15th tax and send it to me. You know you want to.

  • Anonymous

    “Taxes are great”

    Especially for the one’s on the receiving end!

  • http://www.BaltimoreGreenCurrency.org Shrapnel

    Nader is great, but a pair of octogenarians in the White House would be a bit scary. A friend made some Paul/Kucinich 2012 bumper stickers about a year ago, and I suggested this same combination to some of Ron Paul’s people even earlier than that, right at the start of the last Presidential campaign, but I didn’t get a response.

    We have to be a lot more creative than the stagnant compromise of the last few decades, that’s for sure. I suspect you and I would find ourselves on opposite sides if either of us conformed to the nearest stereotype – witness the venom on this board to see how pointless that is. Even though I qualified my lukewarm statement of support with umpteen caveats, the hyenas could not contain their outrage.

    Its not easy being green.

  • Anonymous

    WOW! I can’t believe you said this and after nearly bringing us all to tears yesterday with the story of your friend who had to struggle so long and mightily to overcome female stereotypes in her quest for a PhD in a hard science.

    Incredible–I guess it really is hard to overcome those stereotypes isn’t it!!!!

    Even for you!

  • Anonymous

    I’m actually against the gold standard now. The banksters have accumulated most of the gold. At this point, a gold standard would just transfer the rest of the wealth to the banksters.

  • http://www.BaltimoreGreenCurrency.org Shrapnel

    Chevron just got slapped with an $8.3 BILLION payment for their crimes in Ecuador, so it doesn’t always go they way of the big money. Of course there will be appeals and whatnot, but sometimes sanity does prevail. I think this is the biggest drawback to the libertarian position, but if radicals like me are to ever be more than a voice in the (disappearing) wilderness we are going to have to do something other than what we have been doing. As things stand we are totally fucked. An alliance with libertarians is fraught with danger, no doubt, but sticking with the Democrats is certain to be a failure.

  • Anonymous

    No! Not another Fox Entertainment Channel style quotation crop! Aren’t such tactics beneath people, like yourself, who claim to have your depth of learning?

  • Anonymous

    The US has no actual “foreign aid”. Go to http://www.usaid.gov/about_usaid/dfa/

    Read what “foreign aid” is in reality. US “foreign aid” is to push the agenda of US foreign policy, not any kind of altruism. Part of their mission statement:

    “# Provides leadership, coordination and strategic direction within the U.S. Government and with external stakeholders to enhance foreign assistance effectiveness and integrates foreign assistance planning and resource management across State and USAID;
    # Leads strategic, operational, and performance planning of U.S. foreign assistance with a focus on aligning resources with policy priorities; “

  • Anonymous

    “also the presence of US troops remains the best friend making effort the US can make..”

    That’s would make for a good standup routine.. oh wait, you’re being serious?

    Friends made at the point of a gun is not a friend you want when your back is turned.

  • Anonymous

    Care to post any reference where he “lied” about his vote?

  • Anonymous

    If that is not “isolationist” then what is?

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/iso%27lationist

    isolationism (ˌaɪsəˈleɪʃəˌnɪzəm) [Click for IPA pronunciation guide]

    — n
    1. a policy of nonparticipation in or withdrawal from international affairs
    2. an attitude favouring such a policy

  • Guest

    Please tell me how it is Ron Paul can come to the right conclusions about war, and at the same time believe the environment needs no government protection from corporate polluters! Sorry, nice guy, and he’s right about a number of issues which I’ll support him on, but at the same time this man is a few bananas short of a bunch. Which also explains his son.

  • SocialistCafe

    Well, the fed is a problem. As I understand it, and I’m no expert (so correct me if I’m wrong), the current fed was a compromise with bankers. Rather than create a national bank (like most intelligent countries do) the US created the fed which is partially government but mainly run by bankers – for their interest. Unlike a national bank that has the long-term interests of the overall economy in mind, the fed seems to have the short-sighted interests of bankers in mind.

    On a related note, one bank that hasn’t collapse, and didn’t get all caught up in the recent mortgage scams was the bank of North Dakota. North Dakota is the only state that has nationalized its banking system. Article here: http://socialistcafe.com/index_files/Page2042.htm

  • Anonymous

    I think you have it backwards Joe. Take a read here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nullification_%28U.S._Constitution%29

    ALL states have a right to Nullify ANY Federal law they see fit. Federal law does NOT trump state law, it’s the other way around!

  • Anonymous

    “Bullshit the environment belongs to everyone, we pay our taxes so that the government will defend our environment for us.”

    Except the government no longer does that. They server their corporate masters. BP and the Gulf oil/Corexit poisoning are the a perfect example.

  • Anonymous

    Personally, I think it is time for that honest straight-shooter and all around hero of the conspiracy party to get off the dime. He says he wants to “expose” (if Jaimie11 is to be believed–dubious I know) the Fed, and others say he wants to audit the Fed–his book says he wants to “end the Fed, but so far he hasn’t done anything even remotely like any of that, he ha a single hearing to talk about the Fed or something.

    So far from Mr. Pomp and Principle we have had no audit, no exposure, and no end in sight.

    My question for all the Ron Paulists out there is this, if Paul was so serious wouldn’t he simply subpoena the Fed records and post them on the internet for everyone to see sort of like that other hero of free expression and government transparency, Julian Assange?

    So why hasn’t Paul done this. I have called both his Washington and Lake Jackson offices so far and have gotten little satisfaction, the person who can answer this question is evidently a Mr. Paul Martin in the Washington D.C. office at 202-225-2831, but he has been in meetings or something for some time and is still unavailable–if anyone else is able to get though I would like to hear what they have to say about this.

  • Anonymous

    You’d love it in China, or any other Communist and/or Socialist country.

  • Anonymous

    Great! What is the name of the institution where you are currently being held?

  • Anonymous

    Oh, I see! So only stupid, fact laden, shallow thinking, trollish Mac users with no programming experience whatsoever would actually try it and find out how it works!

    KEWL!!!

    I know there’s a conspiracy of some sort in there somewhere! I just feel it!!!!

  • Anonymous

    Ron Paul vs Obama in 2012…
    I would have to vote for Ron Paul.
    He represents everything that I would want in foreign policy.

  • Jaimie11

    But it doesn’t have to be gold. Any globally accepted valuable commodity will do? Or we can buy gold just as China is doing. It is universally accepted as valuable and as money, after all

    What would you suggest? Creating money out of debt IS the prima facie crime – it becomes valueless at some point and the holders of the debt then own EVERYTHING.

  • Anonymous

    Me too…….BUT NOT in domestic polocy.

  • Jaimie11

    If you click “like” by mistake, just click it again and it takes back your “like”.

  • Anonymous

    Oh, and no I would not vote for him..I just agree with the foreign policy idea.

  • Iconoclasm

    Sorry chum, but the “faulty logic” is YOURS! Just because you have been brainwashed over the years DOES NOT make it right!

    This government is so far out of control it needs to be reigned in, or doesn’t the multi trillion dollar deficit ring any alarm bells in your unwitting mind?

    Government operates in a “Problem, reaction, solution” mehtodolgy. Let’s take the so called War on Drugs for a minor example. The government makes it illegal (when in fact they NEVER had the authority to do so), then they get the problem which is people seeing opportunity to cash in on the legality. The reaction is gangs. The government solution is to expand the police state. They already knew via the Prohibition that this would work to expand government and create the NEED for more, so they did so without any real expert testimony as can be seen here:

    http://www.jackherer.com/thebook/chapter-four/

    Unfortunately, the C.I.A. which some of those tax dollars we spend pay to support are the biggest drug dealers in the world and without their aiding and abetting, all that pure Afghansitani heroin (which the evil Taliban had destroyed down to 5% of what it is today) now floods our streets. BTW the reason the Taliban destroyed the Poppy fields was that they knew that our CIA funds its black ops with the profits!

    Furthermore, we now have a War on Terror due to the WTC attacks (which in many peoples book was an inside job and it is pretty obvious that at the very least they knew it was gonna come down), and that would fit in quite nicely with the Problem, raction, solution methodology. We now have another agency to pay for known as Homeland Security. Kinda tears my eyes up when i think of how that reminds me of the “Fatherland. How about you?

    Oh, and about leaving, sorry gloobie, but I as a soverign have every right ot be here and do whatever I can toi wake unwitting fools like yourself up.

  • Anonymous

    You are so correct………many people’s emotions were running full tilt and people were horrified and wanted to kick some ass……………….but…………..to invade a nation is stupid , especially it was already known that the perpetrators were from many nations and I do not think ONE was from Iraq. They represented religious or political zealots…………zealots are pretty out there mentally. They did not represent any country.
    From my personal observation the whole thing was off base and obvious at the time. To hear our general at the UN saying WMD over and over and over again was not ringing true. I feel so sorry for all of the civilians and our service persons who have paid with their lives, health and /or welfare for this cowboy BS mentality. SHAME !!

  • Iconoclasm

    You have trouble reading?

    Heres the link again on how to run government WITHOUT taxation. Read it before you open your ignorant pie hole up the next time!

    http://www.notaxesnow.org/

  • Anonymous

    I would not. Your description of our President is from somewhere totally off base……nutcake.

  • Anonymous

    9/11 was a pretext… a false flag to shift our nations wealth to the oligarchs and destroy our nations liberty’s.
    It’s all in Dick Cheney’s manifesto called Rebuilding Americas Defenses… Take note on page 51 one third of the page in… calling for a new Pearl Harbor to expedite their plans…
    http://newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf
    You should also check out the statement of principals and note how many of those people on the bottom of the page were in the GW Bush administration.
    http://newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm

  • Anonymous

    I agree with you, yet I’m unsure what commodity it should be (if any). The problem is that we’re basically past the point of no return. Our debt is completely un-payable. We’ve allowed other countries to buy up all the gold. Sure, the govt should start buying gold, but it hasn’t, just selling it off and allowing China and India to buy it all up.
    So here we are.. Maybe we should go to a silver standard, at least that would be more managable, and provide a more realistic value amount. Just my 2 cents.

  • Anonymous

    He definitely loves himself.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    15 of the alleged 19 were from Saudi Arabia.

  • Guest

    Sorry, wasn’t clear. Reticence, meaning getting all the facts before going off half-cocked like francis does.

  • Jaimie11

    You know this video was made in April of 2009 – that is about 2 to 3 years after the original stirrings of what was to coalesce as the Tea Party, except that by then it had already been subverted by the right wing of the War Party known as the GOP, and the liberals and independents, the democrats who were all there at the start had fled. Little known fact is that while the Tea Party was still viable a conference had been arranged in Houston. People were excited about all getting together from all parts of the country, all political perspectives, and all furiously angry about corruption and the federal reserve’s illicit powers.

    Just before that event, an announcement indicated that Cheney was sympathetic to the Tea Party’s concerns. What? No way! And all of a sudden, Sarah Palin, it was reported would be THE guest speaker at the Houston conference as Cheney’s representative. All but the GOP partiers fled.

    But isn’t this an extraordinarily slick tactic for demonizing the original ideas while asserting support of them?

    Enter Maddow doing her condescending bit about those who want to expose the federal reserve – sunny – SHE is doing support work for the oligarchs right there. She often undermines positions that challenge the oligarchs, not by pointing out that they are bad ideas and telling us why, but by belittling the imperfect people who promote those ideas or are attracted to them. This is disingenuous – nothing but an obvious manipulation of people less smart than she is. Parts of the electorate want to believe there is a perfect candidate who will save us and do right by us and punish our enemies. This is complete nonsense yet it is the vehicle on which Obama was transported to the Oval Office. Why is Maddow oiling that greasy machine? It’s terribly bad theatre very well done, and she is an accomplice to the banksters’ crime spree.

    Just to be clear – I am not a Tea Party member and do not support it in any way. Neither do I support Republicans and Democrats. I do support individuals without regard for their party affiliation. I support ideas I like and agree with, and usually not the entire plan or vision of the individual only some of whose ideas I support. I supported Ross Perot in the past, Nader, Paul Tsongas whose campaign I worked for, and long ago Jesse Jackson whose campaign I worked for briefly. I have been a Democrat in the past but no more. Mostly I am independent with libertarian leanings and classical liberal roots.

    I despise those Libertarians who spout the right wing agenda and those who support the money system as is and the corporatocracy. I especially dislike the specious Libertarians in the media who employ semantics to obscure the truth of their global corporate advertisers’ crimes.

    I do see the debt based money system as the foundation upon which the fraudulent usurpation of our country, our democratic republic, has been based from the beginning. Gaining massive momentum during the Civil War, it was able to score a huge victory in the financial take over a mere 50 years later when the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 passed (some say it actually missed by one vote) stealthily as was the Patriot Act and Obama’s health care bill.

    At this point, I cannot see any positive future for us or the world until the banking system has been scourged and driven from existence.

    Now explain to me, if you will, how what I am doing is supporting the oligarchs. And describe your own position, please. Who am I talking to?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_WE3JWKWUY2R62UY5JMETECQBHE Dimitri Sokolov

    When you are attacked, then you have a right to go after the attackers & their training camps.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    I’m gonna regret this, Im sure..

    “This government is so far out of control it needs to be reigned in”

    Agreed.

    “The government makes it illegal (when in fact they NEVER had the authority to do so)”

    Partially correct. If they could show drugs _by themselves_ were causing sever disruption to the public, or threatened national security, they have the Constitutional authority to respond (even making them illegal). However, as you note, since they did so “without any real expert testimony as can be seen here:” (they actually ignored expert testimony because it didn’t fit the agenda of the corporate fuckknobs who wanted to make cannabis illegal), as a sane population we need to revisit the entire thing. Given the failure of the “war on drugs” and the illogical and reasons used to start prohibition not being rooted in reality, the prohibition on drugs needs to end.

    Generally speaking, we’re agreed that the Government should not be enforcing a prohibition on drugs.

    “The reaction is gangs.”

    Gangs are not a reaction to prohibition, gangs are a reaction to poverty in general. Yes, gangs engage in illegal activities and making cannabis (and other drugs) illegal means gangs will engage in that activity as well, but even once you legalize all drugs you’ll still have gangs. I’m guessing you have never taken any sociology courses and never studied the dynamics of Poverty.

    “we now have a War on Terror due to the WTC attacks”

    I’m not sure it’s “because of” the attacks, it seems more that the attacks were used as justification for the expansion of the MIC (as you note, it seems likely those attacks, at a minimum, were “allowed” to happen). Lies and manipulations were created around those attacks, no doubt. But the same people that used those attacks to expand the MIC and police state want to disband government all together. That should be a clue for you.

    “We now have another agency to pay for known as Homeland Security.”

    a right-wing construct that was designed by the extreme right neo-cons before the attacks and implemented after the attacks. And yes, it wreaks of something from the Fatherland. Yet, you keep supporting right-wing mind sets.. generally, the people that created these problems in the first place. You gloss over the failings of the right-wing while trying to suggest those are the same people that can “save us”.

    “but I as a soverign have every right ot be here and do whatever I can toi wake unwitting fools like yourself up. ”

    Yes, you have every right to try and “wake us up” (I’m wide awake already, sorry).. but if you want to “stay here” you also have to abide by the rules “we” have established. “We” would rather have a government than chaos, we would rather have regulations over corporations than let them kill us for profit, we would rather pay taxes to fund roads, police, fire, water, defense, oversight, etc. than to let abusers in the private sector extort us for those things. So either contribute for a better society with stability and security, or leave. Benefiting from all the services provided by taxation without contributing will not be tolerated. We even have an institution to pay attention to that, it’s called the IRS.

    The system is far from perfect, and it’s being hijacked by private interests who are determined to destroy every last bit of collective will us “dirty peasant citizens” have.. but we won’t allow it. If your definition of “waking up” means turning everything over to the top 2%, you’re in for a horrid nightmare.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    What you’re seeing is that the very concept of “money” is non-sustainable as it requires something from the physical world to back it up. Currently, the bulk of the planet is owned by a few private interests, which means, literally, we’re slaves to them.. we have to beg for access to those resources just to exist. He who controls the resources controls all the rest of us; you can’t have true freedom if your existence depends on the good will of greedy abusers.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    Um, it’s a “theory”, and “idea”, and doesn’t trump the Constitution. Period. Yes, if the Federal Government does something unConstitutional, the States have recourse.. it’s called the Supreme Court.

    In this case, the Supreme Court ruled that this is a private medical decision to be made by a woman and no one else. And it is. Period. It’s not your body, not your future, not your responsibility, and the State doesn’t have any right to tell women what medical procedures they can engage in (especially if it’s rooted in religious ideology and even more especially if it’s religious ideology alone).

    Federal Law trumps State Law every time, if the Federal Law expands protections of rights over a right-violating State Law. For proof, I recommend you read the Constitution, not a Wiki entry dealing with a “legal theory/strategy” that hasn’t stood up in court.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QMPOO3PZFN7XV2XZKCGSXXR3WM Joe Somebody

    And Exxon got slapped with many billions for Valdez.. and all these years later, they got it virtually dismissed.

    The problem seems to be that everyone thinks we can keep a unified nation with all the various differences becoming entrenched in our society. We can not. 350 million people seems too many to keep together under our Constitution.. When this country was founded, we had 4 million people here. Much easier to get an agreement on where to go as a country.. as it is today, we have too many people wanting to go in opposite directions to keep it all together. That’s my take, anyway.

  • Anonymous

    I used to feel as you do but as long as both parties support the empire, its wars and privatization there will be no money for domestic policy so If offered the opportunity I would vote for Paul.

  • Jaimie11

    I do not know what it is to be replaced with. At this point I am supporting exposing the facts of the money system to the people in ways they can understand, so that we can agree to castrate it. You realize I hope that once the fed has been deprived of its power and the corporatocracy exposed, the media will be free to begin telling the truth.

    Let’s have an open discussion about what we want. What are the constitutional directives? How can they be applied and safeguarded in the modern world?

    One immediate step we can take now is to establish people owned state banks, such as the Bank of North Dakota that is people owned and not a subsidiary of the Federal Reserve. Yes, at present it’s part of the debt based system, but it controls North Dakota’s state financial services, and its earnings go to the people in the form of funding the state treasury.

    State banks have the power to issue and underwrite bonds and thus collect the fees for these services instead of paying them to investment banks like Goldman Sachs. Credit services will earn interest that can be paid directly to the people or to the state treasury. Small businesses would thrive in such an environment, employment would rise, overt manifestations of the uglier sides of human nature would decline. Small farmers would be supported by the people they feed. No more Big Agra and its cruel and dirty methods. State taxes and fees would decline due to the state income the bank generates. As you know if you’re an honest man, a healthy economy is the foundation of a healthy society.

    Even if all we were to do is establish state banks in every state, doing so would seriously reduce the Federal Reserve’s power and the income of the investment banks. It would free us from their grip in big ways.

    For the record, Ron Paul’s idea of allowing individuals to issue money makes no sense to me. The states or the US (people owned) Treasury should do that under direction of the Congress – one no longer owned by the Banksters. Sometimes I lean toward state issued money only, other times I’m not sure.

    Check this out if you like, there is a history on one of the pages. Interesting: http://www.banknd.nd.gov/

  • Anonymous

    I remember this. Thanks for reminding me.

  • Anonymous

    Question: Is Ron Paul for or against the Patriot Act?

  • Anonymous

    Could you please try to answer the question I posted to the new Rand Paul article on Raw?

  • Anonymous

    “Um” is right. It’s been put into practice many times:

    http://www.tenthamendmentcenter.com/the-10th-amendment-movement/

    Federal law never trumps state law.

    “If the federal government has the exclusive right to judge the extent of its own powers, warned the Kentucky and Virginia resolutions’ authors (Thomas Jefferson and James Madison, respectively), it will continue to grow – regardless of elections, the separation of powers, and other much-touted limits on government power.”
    –Thomas E. Woods

    http://blog.tenthamendmentcenter.com/2011/02/the-legality-of-nullification/

    “To completely reject nullification and secession as acceptable options is to say that the states, as states, have no rights not granted to them by the federal government. This is completely contrary to what the Founding Fathers intended.”

    More reading for you since you can’t be bothered to google it:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nullification_Crisis

    http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/252920/thomas_jeffersons_arguments_for_nullification.html

    Considering the current times, where Federal agencies are running amok without any oversight and participating in illegal activities, nullification is a legitimate and just recourse for states.

    Example:
    http://blog.seedalliance.org/2010/09/13/usda-ignores-courts-on-gmo-sugarbeets-osa-and-partners-file-new-suit/

    The FDA is just as bad.

    Ultimately, state rights must trump federal law.

  • Anonymous

    Duplicate (sorry) from Rand Paul post needs serious answer from a serious R-or-R Paul supporter:

    Ron Paul cast 2 votes on Feb 14, first one “for”, second one “against”.

    Now, I may not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but doesn’t that cast some doubt on what you can expect from Ron Paul – and maybe even Rand Paul?

    Maybe one of you “Ron/Rand Paul is the savior” supporters can explain these votes in layman’s terms. Then, let’s see how Rand Paul votes for the Senate bill before it expires on Feb. 28… Not too far away.

    Seems suspicious to me, but I will yield to a logical, intelligent and factual explanation.

    Below is the record, please explain away, if you so desire…

    February 14, 2011

    H.R.514: To extend expiring provisions of the USA PATRIOT Improvement and Reauthorization Act of 2005 and Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act of 2004 relating to access to business records, individual terrorists as agents of foreign powers, and roving wiretaps until December 8, 2011.

    Roll call number 35 in the House
    Question On Motion to Recommit with Instructions: H R 514 To extend expiring provisions of the USA PATRIOT Improvement and Reauthorization Act of 2005 and Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act of 2004 relating to access to business records, individual terrorists as agents of foreign powers, and roving wiretaps until December 8, 2011

    Rep. Ronald Paul [R, TX-14] Aye

    Required percentage of ‘Aye’ votes: 1/2 (50%)
    Percentage of ‘aye’ votes: 42%
    Result: Failed

    February 14, 2011

    H.R.514: To extend expiring provisions of the USA PATRIOT Improvement and Reauthorization Act of 2005 and Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act of 2004 relating to access to business records, individual terrorists as agents of foreign powers, and roving wiretaps until December 8, 2011.
    Roll call number 36 in the House

    Question On Passage: H R 514 To extend expiring provisions of the USA PATRIOT Improvement and Reauthorization Act of 2005 and Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act of 2004 relating to access to business records, individual terrorists as agents of foreign powers, and roving wiretaps until December 8, 2011

    Rep. Ronald Paul [R, TX-14] Nay

    Required percentage of ‘Aye’ votes: 1/2 (50%)
    Percentage of ‘aye’ votes: 63%
    Result: Passed

    Source: http://www.opencongress.org/people/show/400311_Ronald_Paul

  • Anonymous

    Simple Question: Is Ron Paul for or against the PATRIOT Act?

  • Anonymous

    Our foreign policy tail is wagging our domestic policy dog.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_TF72KWIG5DGSPE3ZXDK6FX4KTQ Robert Burned

    I’d rather vote for Obama than this demented prick. These “progressive” positions are just candy to lure the unsuspecting children of America’s so-called left.

    In a sense,however, it’s moot, because no American election will ever lead to anything resembling justice. It’s a corrupt, rigged system, and the whole thing ought to be scrapped.

  • Anonymous

    Ron, as are all libertarians, is a neo-confederate.

  • Jaimie11

    Actually, Ron Paul has refused to question the government’s official version of how and what happened on 9/11. I personally don’t agree with him on this. I do not believe the official story. But it is my understanding that he has chosen not to make an issue of 9/11 because it would detract from his work of exposing the Fed.

    At one of the links I read that this extension includes provisions for more congressional oversight of government surveillance activity. Maybe that’s why he voted yes for this extension of some provisions limited to terrorist agents of foreign powers and roving wiretaps. He voted against it on Feb 8. Was he holding out for congressional oversight? And voted for it on both votes of yesterday. I don’t know the answer.

    http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2011-26

    And interestingly, he voted against passage of the bill initially in 2001 and again in 2006. I do not know the history of his votes otherwise. But I wonder, in the internal politics of the House, if voting with the party on a bill that will be passed regardless of one’s vote, will garner support in the future for a bill one wishes to put forward. Just speculating. I really don’t know.

    http://educate-yourself.org/cn/patriotact20012006senatevote.shtml

  • Jaimie11

    Are you as rude as usual when you make these requests? If so, change your attitude and you might get further.

    I’d be interested in knowing what you learn. But if you’re rude, you are setting up an outcome you are biased toward producing. That is not effective or trustworthy investigation.

  • Jaimie11

    Joe, click the ‘like’ a second time and it goes back to the original look and takes back your like.

  • Anonymous

    Also, genius, other things that aren’t in the Constitution are taken as fact, also by Thomas Jefferson. Want to show me where the Separation of Church and State is in the Constitution? Can’t? That’s right, it’s not in there. Is it a “theory” or “idea” too?

    http://www.usconstitution.net/constnot.html

  • Jaimie11

    I do not have any saviors, a few really close friends and many acquaintances, but no saviors. And no politicians among my friends.

    In future I would like you to acknowledge that I am not anyone’s sycophant. That is an innately repulsive position for me. Additionally, I am not an ideologue, unless you count anti-war, anti-corruption as dangerous ideology.

  • Anonymous

    I haven’t considered myself a Republican since I voted for McGovern in 1972. But I would definitely vote for Ron Paul and donate to his campaign. Hopefully progressive Democrats have been deceived for the last time – and a lot would join me.

  • Jaimie11

    Yes, it may take 2000 years to overcome the criminals and take back our lives. Any suggestions Joe?
    The priesthood, a deserted island, daily meditation could help.

  • Iconoclasm

    Actually it is run by “The People” but NOT the citizenry! There is a difference which is why the 13th and 14th Amendments.

  • Anonymous

    Guess who’s gonna run in 2012 I hope.

  • Anonymous

    There is no possible justification for the above voting record – as far as I’m concerned.

    I declare – case closed.

    Do you agree Jamie11?

    And those who attacked me earlier have disappeared, except Jamie11, interesting… No parrots_abound, Steven Howie, and the other loudmouths. And Balthazars Rebellion, where’s his response? He was calling people that didn’t agree with his views, “trolls”. He said, “anti-Pual (sic) trolls are spamming the same thing post after post”. Well, guess what, I ain’t no troll, and I challenged you all fair and square, and the loudest mouths ran away when faced with a valid argument backed up by actual facts – shows their shallowness. So, that, to me seems to be the problem – shallowness.

    And the Media’s hidden agenda. Raw Story often spits out incomplete reports that don’t even answer the basic reporting questions, who, what, where, etc. So, Raw is even contributing to the dumbing down process IMHO, who can you trust anymore?

    So, I DO NOT propose blindly following those who speak out of both sides of their mouths, or snakes. I say question them, dig deeper, ask the question, Could they be hiding something? Usually when something sounds too good to be true – it is.

    You ask what options I propose… Well, I propose truth. Maybe if people sincerely seek the truth and ask in their hearts and believe in themselves, the answer will come on its own. People are bombarded with misinfo (24/7), and then they accept it as truth without questioning it because of who said it (how shallow), as a people, let’s go deeper into the facts and not look for easy, feel good solutions (put forth by barbies and kens with lots of make up), that are, when scrutinized, simply hollow and touted by the MSM “in guy/gal” at any given moment.

    It seems obvious to me that NONE of the parties or candidates can really deliver – even the ones who might really be sincerely trying – because the Media spins everything in one direction – the wrong one. Sorry Jamie11, I got no easy answers, the ones you propose such as revolution etc, just seem loaded, but in the end…

    I think it comes down to 2 choices:

    1) Imagine all the people sharing all the world (John Lennon)

    or

    2) Total destruction, the only solution (Bob Marley)

    What do you say Jamie11 or anyone?

  • http://twitter.com/Socratic_Knight Socrates

    Ron Paul wants to make Abortions an issue of the states. He’s a obstetrician/gynecologist …he’s delivered thousands of babies into the world. He’s of the opinion that a Fetus is alive and has legal rights. Killing the fetus is an act of aggression. Just as if he’d kill a fetus, he’d be prosecuted. The situation is ofcourse allot different if the mother would be in danger.
    In humans, the fetal stage of prenatal development starts at the beginning of the 11th week in gestational age, which is the 9th week after fertilization

  • Anonymous

    What does he think about midwives?
    Would a true Libertarian actually become a politician?
    It’s important to look at the history of Chile and Pinochet when considering Chicago Boys economics. It was their brutal experiment of putting their extremist ideology into practice. The corporations involved made out really well though. But maybe “History is bunk”… – Henry Ford our Lord and Savior.
    prepare for the shock

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/3ETFGMQ3B7VD4AAMILBBEVMCWE JasonA

    Switching parties does nothing. Both are on the take, and owned by corporations.

  • http://twitter.com/Socratic_Knight Socrates

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjslpJam5W4
    Here’s what Ron Paul said at a political rally in Greenville, North Carolina when asked about licensing midwives:

    “But if you can allow it with licensing, that’s slightly better, [than prohibition] the ideal is that people make up their own minds. I am not in favor of government prohibiting people from making private choices. I may have a medical opinion–well, you shouldn’t do this or you shouldn’t do that, but politically, people should make their own choices.”

    So you’re in favor of families having the option to choose.

    “Oh yes, definitely, said Ron Paul.”
    ——————–
    When you see your country going for disaster, what kind of libertarian would you be…if you did not stand up and fight for ones rights that are being infringed upon?

  • Jaimie11

    I’ve emailed Dr. Paul and asked him why he voted as he did on the extensions. I’ll let you know what he says, if he answers.

    Those young people in Egypt got a revolution, but tearing down everything, total destruction – they didn’t get that. They did the opportunity to work towards better government, more personal freedom, improved economic opportunities. Who knows if they will get it? But the opening was as important act.

    So working to educate the people, put a Ron Paul in to attack the money system, a Feingold in to fend off the Patriot Act, a McKinney to expose the corporatocracy, etc. If we don’t do that we have nothing to look forward to. We’d be just letting it happen to us, passive, complaining fat fools.

  • Iconoclasm

    I’m gonna regret this, Im sure..

    Not, really, as long as you don’t attack the messenger, the messenger will respect you

    “This government is so far out of control it needs to be reigned in”

    Agreed.

    But much worse than most would like to think

    “The government makes it illegal (when in fact they NEVER had the authority to do so)”

    Partially correct. If they could show drugs _by themselves_ were causing sever disruption to the public, or threatened national security, they have the Constitutional authority to respond (even making them illegal). However, as you note, since they did so “without any real expert testimony as can be seen here:” (they actually ignored expert testimony because it didn’t fit the agenda of the corporate fuckknobs who wanted to make cannabis illegal), as a sane population we need to revisit the entire thing. Given the failure of the “war on drugs” and the illogical and reasons used to start prohibition not being rooted in reality, the prohibition on drugs needs to end.

    Generally speaking, we’re agreed that the Government should not be enforcing a prohibition on drugs.

    Many other things also, I just used drugs as an example as it is the most obvious.

    “The reaction is gangs.”

    Gangs are not a reaction to prohibition, gangs are a reaction to poverty in general.

    In some respect I would garner that poverty plays a role, but opportunity does too. Look at Al Capone, for one. Had alcohol not been illegalized, he would never have reached that precipice.

    Yes, gangs engage in illegal activities and making cannabis (and other drugs) illegal means gangs will engage in that activity as well, but even once you legalize all drugs you’ll still have gangs. I’m guessing you have never taken any sociology courses and never studied the dynamics of Poverty.

    Yes I have, but I don’t rely much on any information that is government sponsored as no entity has a bigger agenda than does government.

    “we now have a War on Terror due to the WTC attacks”

    I’m not sure it’s “because of” the attacks, it seems more that the attacks were used as justification for the expansion of the MIC (as you note, it seems likely those attacks, at a minimum, were “allowed” to happen). Lies and manipulations were created around those attacks, no doubt. But the same people that used those attacks to expand the MIC and police state want to disband government all together. That should be a clue for you.

    Government has one huge agenda and that would be expansionism. Not unlike any artificial entity, it needs to expand its perimeters and its scope and will seek any means necessary to enable that. Those in power, (noI don’t mean our elected officials who are obviously following orders from the Plutocrats that control them), learned long ago how to control the masses. That would be the problem, reaction, solution scenario. They create a problem, (lts use drugs again), then they campaign and rally support via fear and propaganda, then they get their reaction[s], in this case, gangs which lead to public outcry, then they come along with the solution that was already planned from the start, more cops and government agencies. The war on terror did the exact same thing. It was planned from the start, and now we have Homeland Security. Meanwhile you have the CIA being the biggest drug dealer in the world. They control the flow and use their profits to run their black ops. Black ops that put us in more danger from blowback than we were in to begin with. It should also be noted that the misnamed Patriot Act was planned during the Clinton years. They just needed one “catastrophic and catalyzing event, like a new Pearl Harbor” is how the neocon PNAC think tank put it in 2000.

    “We now have another agency to pay for known as Homeland Security.”

    a right-wing construct that was designed by the extreme right neo-cons before the attacks and implemented after the attacks. And yes, it wreaks of something from the Fatherland. Yet, you keep supporting right-wing mind sets.. generally, the people that created these problems in the first place. You gloss over the failings of the right-wing while trying to suggest those are the same people that can “save us”.

    “but I as a soverign have every right ot be here and do whatever I can toi wake unwitting fools like yourself up. ”

    Yes, you have every right to try and “wake us up” (I’m wide awake already, sorry).. but if you want to “stay here” you also have to abide by the rules “we” have established. “We” would rather have a government than chaos, we would rather have regulations over corporations than let them kill us for profit, we would rather pay taxes to fund roads, police, fire, water, defense, oversight, etc. than to let abusers in the private sector extort us for those things. So either contribute for a better society with stability and security, or leave. Benefiting from all the services provided by taxation without contributing will not be tolerated. We even have an institution to pay attention to that, it’s called the IRS.

    The system is far from perfect, and it’s being hijacked by private interests who are determined to destroy every last bit of collective will us “dirty peasant citizens” have.. but we won’t allow it. If your definition of “waking up” means turning everything over to the top 2%, you’re in for a horrid nightmare.

  • Iconoclasm

    “We now have another agency to pay for known as Homeland Security.”

    a right-wing construct that was designed by the extreme right neo-cons before the attacks and implemented after the attacks. And yes, it wreaks of something from the Fatherland. Yet, you keep supporting right-wing mind sets.. generally, the people that created these problems in the first place. You gloss over the failings of the right-wing while trying to suggest those are the same people that can “save us”.

    That would be the PNAC which I mentioned above. Sorry, but my computer would not scroll the page any more. I hate neocons. I would be more in line with a true conservative or Libertarian. I try to use logic and really do not affiliate myself with any party. We are real flesh and blood entities. None of us was born with the authority to force anyone to do something they do not want to do, or disallow the same. As natural thinking and what should be advanced beings I would think it would be universally true that their are four true crimes which I refer to as natural law crimes. (This has nothing to do with anthropolgy, just logic and common sense). Those crimes are theft, tresspass, rape and murder. That is where the lines of government should be drawn.

    “but I as a soverign have every right ot be here and do whatever I can toi wake unwitting fools like yourself up. ”

    Yes, you have every right to try and “wake us up” (I’m wide awake already, sorry).. but if you want to “stay here” you also have to abide by the rules “we” have established. “We” would rather have a government than chaos, we would rather have regulations over corporations than let them kill us for profit, we would rather pay taxes to fund roads, police, fire, water, defense, oversight, etc. than to let abusers in the private sector extort us for those things. So either contribute for a better society with stability and security, or leave. Benefiting from all the services provided by taxation without contributing will not be tolerated. We even have an institution to pay attention to that, it’s called the IRS.

    The system is far from perfect, and it’s being hijacked by private interests who are determined to destroy every last bit of collective will us “dirty peasant citizens” have.. but we won’t allow it. If your definition of “waking up” means turning everything over to the top 2%, you’re in for a horrid nightmare.

    The top 2% has had everything from the start and sealed the deal in 1913. The solution I posted is sensible and logical and a first step towards a trutly free and decent society. You cannot have freedom at the barrel of a gun operated by paid government thugs. I would also like to point out that whether it is a foreign foe or those from within who are imprisoning us via involuntary servitude, it is no different! We live in an artificial entity created 250 + years ago. It has grown exponentially and we are taxed, micromanaged, licensed and fee’d to death while these enormous sums are misused to benefit that 2%. The last several wars including WWII benefitted the same families that benefit today. Read War is a Racket free online by Major General S.M. Butler (1933) to realize that.

    The Founding Fathers, in my opinion, were no better than our politicians today. We have been consistently lied to from the beginning and sold a bogus bill of good that serves the artificial entity and has allowed it to become more powerful than its creator. It needs to be shut down and restrained.

  • Anonymous

    Why the states? I mean, why not the counties, then? Or each city and town? What makes him think state governments are any wiser or more responsive to the will of the people? Those “oligarchs” whom you rightfully disparage are also running the statehouses. And would you really like to see America chopped up into 50 separate little sovereign nations, each operating under different laws and policies? Finally, what is your evidence to back up the ridiculous claim that “bringing down” the fed would result in “…such a surplus of money to spend ……. no-one will go without….”?

  • Jaimie11

    I think we have a little more control at the state level, if the electorate is awake. But I agree with you. I would not mind seeing decisions made at local levels and then those localities who share similar objectives, values, can band together for purchasing goods and services.

    But don’t forget armorypk we can set up state banks that are independent of the fed like the bank of north dakota. If we issue our own money, let’s say, and underwrite our own bonds, we don’t need the global criminal bank or the investment banks. Presuming we have not yet got rid of the fed. But that would need to be done.

  • Anonymous

    Ron might be right. But where is the peace counter-weight? I don’t see any repubissy-can standing up and saying I have had enough of war and will oppose Obama on that issue.
    The acceptance is so frightening you would think Obama was paying the repuic-lickn to say that shit.
    Perhaps, Obama is offering them young congressional pages to quell their ire…

  • Anonymous

    Could you briefly say what he represents that you think important?
    It might just sway others here to vote for him.
    It was a nice personal endorcement you made, you must have some good to say. Speak
    and we will all listen.

  • Anonymous

    Could you be more specific?
    Thanks for sharing you thoughts.

  • Anonymous

    Let’s invite Ron Paul here to clarify things?????

  • Anonymous

    I won’t vote nationally for a robber-lickn until they have all come out of REHAB!

  • Anonymous

    Ron Paul stands for a military whose only purpose is for domestic defense… All of this military intervention, preemptive warfare and foreign bases would be a thing of the past. Foreign aid would also see the knife. He is also as hard on domestic programs but I think that we are about due for the reset button to be pressed. And we all know that he will eliminate the FED… The single most important wealth generating action since Andrew Jackson eliminated the parasitic central bank.

  • Elim

    “…use force in responding to the 9/11 attackers….” Three days after 9-11, no one thought Iraq was the attacker. Hell, the majority of the American public never thought Iraq had anything to do with it, right up until the day they invaded! We were told it was bin-Laden and al-Qaeda, remember? That’s who was supposed to be on the receiving end of the use of force.

  • http://twitter.com/whoisronpaul Who is Ron Paul?

    You 2.0 GPA fucktard, do you even know the difference between capitalism and corporatism? Your dear Obama is a big time corporatist and a war-monger. But, alas, morons like you LOVE to get lied and teabagged by Obama. After all, Democrats are for “poor people” and neo-con Republicans are for “defending America”..None of these parties are for people. They have sold out to the highest bidder. Wake up, stop with all this left-right false paradigm.

  • http://twitter.com/whoisronpaul Who is Ron Paul?

    You delusional Americans get butt-raped by liars in DC but who gives a shit, right?

  • http://twitter.com/whoisronpaul Who is Ron Paul?

    Basically you want more free shit from the govt. while you’re busy smoking pot and doing nothing?

  • http://twitter.com/whoisronpaul Who is Ron Paul?

    DO NOT FUCKING vote for Ron Paul. You fucking 2.0 college dropouts don’t even know the difference between capitalism and corporatism. Please vote the ones you have been voting for..you know the ones who love to bring change again and again?

  • http://twitter.com/whoisronpaul Who is Ron Paul?

    The biggest fucking robber is the govt. (while colluding with big corporations supported by Obama, Bush and the likes)..You people are as batshit brainwashed as those Sarah Palin supporters.

  • Guest

    who said anything about voting for Ron Paul, go learn how to read before spouting off …

  • http://twitter.com/whoisronpaul Who is Ron Paul?

    All I’m saying is Ron Paul doesn’t represent you. He’s a Republican to begin with. So vote the ones you vote. We don’t need your fucking sympathy and support.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_PCHLMPBJKYTW3LJBHZEZMO3TXQ What Ever

    Given a choice I would go with Paul and can’t stand Republicans but what we got ain’t working.

  • Anonymous

    You have to look at the whole bill, if they add things to it he doesn’t like he votes against it. You don’t know all the reasons he votes the way he does..total nonsense about the “big brother” thing too, he complains about how it attacks the 4th amendment all the time…for decades.

  • Anonymous

    Boy you are a fucking shit who knows nothing, what happens to you down there affects us directly, secondly I disagree with him on healthcare and nothing else, I will not forsake a candidate because of one issue so STFU ass hole.

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