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US Chamber hired firm to investigate families and children of critics

By Sahil Kapur
Monday, February 14, 2011 13:03 EDT
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WASHINGTON – Leaked documents indicate that the US Chamber of Commerce hired a private firm to gather information about the families and children of its progressive political opponents.

E-mails circulated by Aaron Barr, the CEO of HBGary Federal, illuminate highly personal data about critics of the Chamber, including detailed information about their their spouses and children, as well as their locations and professional links.

The e-mails were acquired and published by ThinkProgress, shortly after the liberal blog revealed that the Chamber hired lobbying and security firms to map strategies to discredit progressive opponents.

One e-mail by Barr includes personal information, apparently obtained by HBGary, about Brad Friedman, co-founder of The Brad Blog and other projects that have reported on the Chamber’s lobbying.

Friedman posted additional documents put forth by Team Themis — which comprises HBGary and two other firms — that were apparently prepared in collaboration with Chamber law firm Hunton & Williams. One PowerPoint slide includes information on Friedman’s life partner, home address, children, and professional links.

“For now, the revelation of terror tools used so brazenly against political opponents in the private corporate sector is disturbing, to say the least,” wrote Friedman on his blog. “While the notion of paid political operatives subversively using social media to discredit opponents has long been suspected by many, here we have evidence that these tactics are, in truth, fairly common among those who can afford to deploy them.”

Critics noted that ThinkProgress may have redacted mention in Barr’s emails of Brett Kimberlin, who is affiliated with the Friedman co-founded group Velvet Revolution, and has been implicated in domestic terrorist attacks.

Another e-mail by Barr offers information on Mike Gehrke, former staffer at Change to Win, which was also tagged as affiliated with groups that have criticized the Chamber.

Barr informed a Hunton & Williams employee in an email about Gehrke’s wife, his children, and where they go to pray. He wrote that he “did a little bit of poking” to get the information.

The Chamber is a staunchly conservative lobbying group that represents some of the nation’s wealthiest business interests. It is the largest lobbying spender in the nation by a considerable margin, according to the Center for Responsive Politics.

Barr’s firm, HBGary, was recently revealed as one of the groups advising Bank of America on a plan to counterattack the anti-secrecy outlet WikiLeaks, which said it held data exposing corruption at the bank.

HBGary’s website was recent hacked and defaced by online protest group ‘Anonymous,’ which dumped the CEO’s emails onto bit-torrent networks for the public to see. An additional 27,000 HBGary emails were published Monday.

 
 
 
 
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  • Anonymous

    The Chamber members need a good probe.

  • Anonymous

    I’m always amazed at how your average Teapublican can spend hours railing against “corrupt” unions. And yet they ignore the US C of C. What is the US C of C? It is a UNION for wealthy corporations! Hypocracy, anyone?

  • http://harry-canary.myopenid.com/ Harry Canary

    These tactics and worse have been deployed against union organizers from the beginning. Business owners do not believe in democracy or repersentative government. The only freedom they believe in is their own freedom to use and abuse people. Businesses in general and the chamber in particular are un American and need to be kept on a tight leash with a shock collar to control their viciousness.

  • http://twitter.com/btmfdrsheaven rebecca meritt

    The evangelical principle,G-d only forgives the repuggs,everyone else is just a lowlife. The Christian reality show, you have arrived in heaven and only those with a GOP card can operate the pearlie gates security latch.

  • http://skulzstudios.com/ don nash

    Well, sounds like the Chamber of Commerce needs a visit from the nice folk at Anonymous. EXPECT US! Turn about is fair play after all.

  • Anonymous

    There’s a war going on and that war is relentless and well funded. The Chamber of Commerce, their business clients both domestic and foreign, and their paid lackey’ in the statehouses and Capitol are waging a class war. They’re not going to be happy until American workers, those few that have jobs, are working for wages on par with Chinese or Phillipine laborer’s and every last dime is wrung out of taxpayers to enrich a handful of global ubermenchen.

    This is a convoluted story and scheme because there are leaks involved with multiple overlapping players including the BoA and their law firm Hunton and Williams. H&W was hired by BoA to deal with Wikileaks and DoJ (yes, our DoJ) made that recommendation of H&W to BoA. The plan the above article discusses (in abridged) form was prepared in conjunction with H&W. The trail leads back to BoA and their law firm recommended by the Department of Justice. Banks and their lackey’s.

    Th whole story, as of today anyway, is here on the BradBlog, it’s long, detailed and amazing:

    http://www.bradblog.com/?p=8354

    BTW, these blogs and bloggers that are targets of this (and who knows how many other similar schemes by business and/or government) are getting by on a shoestring. There are organizations with hundreds of millions of dollars at their disposal trying to crush them (so they can crush us in secret) and these blogs are getting by on pocket change and a prayer. Visit the sites and throw a couple of bucks their way electronically. It’s the patriotic thing to do. No, I don’t work at fundraising for any of them. It’s just the patriotic thing to do.

  • Anonymous

    Truly VILE.

  • Anonymous

    …..

  • Anonymous

    I’m a little offended that they didn’t hire anyone to look into me. The Chamber is a true enemy to The People!

  • Guest

    Why are Americans still sitting on the couch? Business could not do anything without our elected officials in their pocket. There ought to be a 300 million march on the Capitol.

  • Anonymous

    The Chamber is a staunchly reactionary lobbying group that represents some of the nation’s wealthiest business interests.

    FTFY – when are we going to stop calling reactionaries and fascists “conservatives”. Obama is conservative, these guys are right-wing thugs.

  • Anonymous

    The next revolution will be paid for by corporate backers… I don’t mean with money, with their lives! I look forward to Barr and Koch and others hanging from the highest posts along with their wives and adult children. Unfortunately, I will likely not be around to see it – The People don ‘t have a stomach for it just yet.

  • Anonymous

    This is Treason. But we have long ago changed the meaning to be someone who does something that would cause the corporations bottom line to be affected. It no longer is a crime committed against the Citizens of the United States of America

  • Anonymous

    Got that right!

  • ThatBostonMan

    Examples:
    http://www.jbhfile.com/invest_beginnings.html
    http://www.targetedindividuals.com/

    This is what happens when they investigate you.

  • ThatBostonMan

    That might not be a good idea. The Chamber has a lot more power than people think. The only reason this leaked and made the news is because they happened to hire the wrong hackers (HBGaryFederal) who were reckless and did not do a successful job.

    90% of the time they end up finding dirt on their critics. Then they are in a position to silence their critics under the threat of exposure of that dirt. On top of that they always have law enforcement on their side, even if it’s unconscionable, extrajudicial, and unconstitutional.

  • Harry Tuttle

    Blow a Dub and go to jail. Screw with honest people’s kids and do lunch in Manhattan; and they wonder why freedom lovers everywhere say we are the problem?

  • ThatBostonMan

    They probably have already.

  • Harry Tuttle

    Please… remember we’re trying to spread Hypocrisy to the rest of the oppressed world. Oh wait the Egyptians had to go get some Democracy for themselves… there’s a thought. Those words always get businesspeople confused.

  • Anonymous

    I look forward to Barr and Koch and others hanging from the highest posts along with their wives and adult children.

    A little over the top there Sparky? Let’s leave wives and kids (of whatever age) out of it.

    But for Barr, the Kochs, Tom Donohue, et al. I believe that the traditional venue is a gas station. Not that I’m condoning violence.

  • Anonymous

    HBGary CEO Also Suggested Tracking, Intimidating WikiLeaks’ Donors

    WikiLeaks and its inner circle of supporters may not have been the only targets of a group of security firms that offered to take on the secret-spilling site on behalf of Bank of America. In an email conversation, the head of one of those firms also suggested going after the thousands of individuals who have donated to the

    http://blogs.forbes.com/andygreenberg/2011/02/14/hbgary-ceo-also-suggested-tracking-intimidating-wikileaks-donors/

  • ThatBostonMan

    If they can’t get you, I guess they’ll go after your family. There is always something you don’t want leaked even if it doesn’t involve you.

    It’s interesting that the Chamber would be interested in this kind of information but it’s not surprising. The question is what did they plan to do with it? Blackmail? Threaten? Or were they just going to keep it in a file somewhere and never look at it?

    Who would have looked at this information? And why?

  • Anonymous

    HBGary CEO Also Suggested Tracking, Intimidating WikiLeaks’ Donors

    WikiLeaks and its inner circle of supporters may not have been the only targets of a group of security firms that offered to take on the secret-spilling site on behalf of Bank of America. In an email conversation, the head of one of those firms also suggested going after the thousands of individuals who have donated to the

    http://blogs.forbes.com/andygreenberg/2011/02/14/hbgary-ceo-also-suggested-tracking-intimidating-wikileaks-donors/

  • ThatBostonMan

    Now now, Barr may be stupid for doing such a shitty job, but he’s just a soldier. You can hire him too, as he does not appear to have a political agenda.

    It just happens that “the people” don’t have any money.

  • dk504

    I say we investigate the Hell out of them. Just sit on their houses. What does wifey do during the day? Sweet smiley kiddies? Are they smoking crack or pot? They want to play, I’ll show these SOB’s how to play.
    Rahm Ehmanuel talked shit about “Chicago politics”, well FUCK that. Welcome to New Orleans politics. THAT is how we roll. You wanna play bitches? I’ll find out how many affairs your momma had. Fight fire with fire. Quit being pussies.

  • ThatBostonMan

    Dude, I told this site this is what they’d do.

    Nobody took it serious. Everybody was saying go ahead and donate, go ahead and support Wikileaks, go ahead and join the cyber protesting.

    In my opinion the people who decided to take part in those activities are probably in a database right at this moment. Their info probably being collected at this moment. Their dossiers being distributed to the groups who hate them because those are the groups willing to pay for the information.

  • Anonymous

    Their family members will just take over where they leave off, we’ll have to agree to disagree. I say nipping it in the bud is not enough… there are limbs and roots that need to be dealt with. It worked well with Nicholas II of Russia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_II_of_Russia#Final_months_and_death but whenever you leave family, they always come back to murder millions by rule or by law or by economics!

  • Anonymous

    Soldier of fortunes also don’t have any political agenda when they’re hired for a hit… you’re saying they should be allowed to stay and be hired? I respectfully disagree.

  • Guest

    the only thing missing are the swastikas on their suits and ties.

  • Anonymous

    This is a criminal conspiracy. If their names were Salerno and Bruno instead of Donohue and Milligan, the FBI would be exploring racketeering charges.

  • Anonymous

    Age

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/5OQFBZ26C3VQ5ONGZGDBDY4BUU Mark A

    The Chamber of Commerce wants to use fraud and extortion against American citizens.

    In a free democracy, that would be enough to merit the death penalty for the Chamber, or at least criminal charges and/or mass firings of their executives. But apparently there is no danger to the Chamber, they now realize they can get away with anything.

  • ThatBostonMan

    You know nothing about war. In war you don’t “hate” or seek to “kill” the soldiers. In war you seek to bring those soldiers onto your side, just as the enemy seeks to bring your soldiers onto their side.

    In the case of investigators, hackers, and security researchers/professionals, these people aren’t the enemy. If you are mad that the Chamber got to them before you did then that is fine, but killing them all isn’t going to win you any friends or help your side.

    In my opinion, hackers and security researchers whether blackhat or whitehat, ought to stick together. The hacker community has it’s own rules which have nothing to do with politics. And what people do in their day job should not have anything to do with their personal life.

    For example, if a cop arrests you as part of his job do you think all cops should be killed? If the cop is an honest cop, what more can you hope for from a cop? No matter who is in charge we will need cops, and cops don’t have to stay cops, they can quit. Soldiers of fortune or mercenaries have had a history throughout war, if you look at the civil war or any war in existence you’ll always find some mercenaries.

    Do more research about hacking, the hacker community, the white hat and black hats, and the history of warfare itself. You’ll see that in the end soldiers have to get paid one way or another, if you don’t like the private sector paying them then the public sector can pay them, or you can start a PAC or a corporation and pay them yourself.

  • Anonymous

    When you see a C of C sticker in the window, go into the shop and tell them that you are not shopping there any more.

  • ThatBostonMan

    That guy has to be an agent provocateur.

    The whole take no prisoners kill em all approach wouldn’t work in Iraq, wouldn’t work anywhere. You don’t win a war by killing as many people as possible and whoever is seeking to make things violent is probably a provocateur.

  • Anonymous

    You are the very definition of the word “psychopath”

  • ThatBostonMan

    How the hell do you know what the family members want to do? In fact how do you know all the people involved even had much choice in the matter? Most of the people working for HBGary didn’t know the details. Aaron Barr knew the details. Aaron Barr wanted to make money, he did not have a political agenda so there is no reason to believe he wouldn’t take money from whomever decides to pay him.

    It just so happened that the contract he received was against Anonymous and Wikileaks, but why believe every contract he receives is against Anonymous and Wikileaks? And why would you think Aaron Barr would be associated with murder? He’s either a hacker, a security researcher or an investigator. He does his job and follows his orders, just like 99% of everyone else.

    What next? You going to want to hunt down bank clerks because they work for the bank? You want to start targeting cops and their family too because you disagree with the laws they enforce? You talking violent is exactly what will provoke the authorities into getting involved. Is that what you want?

  • Anonymous

    I said nothing about hacking and I said nothing about ALL soldiers of fortune. I was only speaking of those who kill good people for money. As far as cops? they’re all criminals – and that’s all I’ll say about cops and if you’ve seen my posts about cops, that’s all I ever say about them.

  • Anonymous

    I disagree… the term is “Antisocial Personality Disorder” and I am not defined as such. Insanity would be defined as someone who does the same thing over and over while expecting something to change when it never does. I’m just tired of doing the same thing over and over and seeing no change – that would make me sane.

  • Anonymous

    Gosh, you’re right… I see the error of my ways… because peaceful means have always worked in the past… I should have noticed.

  • ThatBostonMan

    Thats probably already happening. In fact thats probably how politics work. Opposition research.

    Everybody is vulnerable to it. So what it is looking like is a cyber war or information war. This has probably been going on since before there was an internet, all I can say is this is the first instance I’ve seen where it hit the news.

    The Chamber of Commerce and the big banks are obviously and totally corrupt. It’s not a surprise to me at all that they are behind this. But the solution to this is not to break laws, turn violent, or go dumb, the solution is going smart. The white hats have law enforcement on their side, the black hats do not, but both have the same agenda, they want our “dox.”

    Nothing stops you from getting in the game legally. Start your own information security company. Then you can make money and get into the game yourself legitimately. What Anonymous is doing is illegitimate, so they will be open to legal attacks and have to do what they do in secret.

  • ThatBostonMan

    That sounds an awful lot like “gangstalking”.

  • ThatBostonMan

    I wouldn’t go so far as to call it treason. It’s legal to hire private investigators to track anybody.
    You can hire them or any other person with money.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXTnYCg8v8o Bamboo_Harvester

    The COC should be a parking lot

  • ThatBostonMan

    You’re suspect dude.
    I know people have a right to be angry about this, and I predicted this would eventually get out months ago only to be called names, but I respect good people regardless of who they work for.

    You have to understand that a job is just a job, and you know in this economy people are desperate. This includes smart good people. Your kill em all attitude will only drive more people to the side of law enforcement because law enforcement side isn’t talking about killing every single member of Anonymous or every person who donated to Wikileaks. They are trying to get those people to switch sides or to remain silent.

    Talking about killing is escalating the game to a level where no one wins.

  • ThatBostonMan

    It’s one thing to decide to investigate the families of the US Chamber. If they are investigating you then you have every right to investigate them. It’s legal. It’s lawful. It’s Constitutional. But why take it to the level nobody wants to take it?

    Aaron Barr (white hat hacker) or Anonymous (black hat hackers) don’t want to see it reach a level where it’s violent and where people end up missing. The reason is because once it reaches that level thats when the situation goes in favor of the government and banks. Thats when blackwater/xe can be called in to restore order by any means necessary.

    That is the level I think the majority of Americans want to avoid, except you.

  • Anonymous

    The act is to influence the outcome of a Federal Election. There are many things that can be done that do not affect a Citizens Civil Liberties, but Federal Elections were Once Upon A Time a sacred trust. Now it’s Diebold’s call anyway

  • RottenJohnny

    If America does fail, it’s the fault of organizations like the USCOC, who have no problem exporting jobs and sicking their secret police after anyone who disagrees with them. If there was any justice anymore in this country, they would be sued for every dime in their war chest. This whole thing is so wrong on so many levels, one can’t find the words to describe it.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_V5XKDORJ6HIVIZ6V5OTK76KTEY Immortal

    When the “rich” declare a “class war” it is official. It has legs. It becomes a dog that can hunt.

  • Anonymous

    The U.S. CoC is V-I-L-E.
    The U.S. CoC is E-V-I-L.
    The U.S. CoC hides behind a V-E-I-L of respectability.
    And they L-I-V-E on.

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/EHJJXSTSSOCXLTSQBUVIDYUF7M Dave

    To keep informed about what the scumbags in the US Chamber of Commerce are up to go to this site

    http://www.fixtheuschamber.org/

  • mjcc1987

    What companies support this anti-American organization – let’s out them and see their explanation. Only the disinfectant of public light will destroy this terrorist organization. Anonymous needs to get at this organization pronto.

  • Anonymous

    I didn’t talk about killing now. In the future people are going to be fed up and people like him are going to be the first ones to go! I said, “Unfortunately, I will likely not be around to see it – The People don ‘t have a stomach for it just yet. “

  • Anonymous

    Posse Comitatus Act. It can’t happen and if it does there WILL be all out war and I will be the first to die. I’ve already called my congressman and Senator to investigate them and they basically laughed… it’s NOT going to happen, don’t be silly. I wish it would but our country right now is beyond repair… it’s just going to get worse.

    A couple of threats here and there go a long way… the biggest threat is calling your congressman and senator and telling them what you want. When I called my congressman last week about stopping the patriot act renewal I was one of two calls… TWO!!! If the People began vocalizing their displeasure, we MIGHT be able to save this country from certain civil war against the corporations but I don’t see it happening.

    We’re boiling frogs right now and anyone under 50 doesn’t know that at one time, before Reaganomics, life and living were almost passable.

    The time for politicking is almost over.

  • Anonymous

    So the stalkers get a taste of their own medicine. Love it!

  • ThatBostonMan

    There is no class war. It’s tribal and turf based with rich on each side. And we are caught in the middle of it.

  • Anonymous

    This is the standard MO for the gop, it’s how they win………………what will it take to piss the left off enough to fight back ?

  • ThatBostonMan

    That is dumb. You kill all the hackers, they’ll just hire new ones. On top of that it endangers Anonymous and virtually everybody else in between. So ultimately it’s the same tactic which didn’t work after the Vietnam war. Soldiers came back and were spat on by the anti war movement, blamed for polices they did not make or for following orders.

    So once again even if Aaron Barr might not have been a smart individual, he’s not in charge even if he’s the CEO. Punishing him isn’t going to win support to Anonymous either because it will make Anonymous out to be thugs. The hacker community in my opinion should look out for it’s own regardless of what the government or activists from other professions think. (because this empowers the information security professionals)

    I don’t agree with Aaron Barr but he’s not the problem. The problem that most of us have are with the policies, the behavior of the banks, the destroyed economy, all of which Aaron Barr had nothing to do with besides trying to sell his services to them.

    If your goal is to get people to join the side of Anonymous then you have to win over the Aaron Barr’s of the world because these are the people who actually have the legitimate skills, knowledge, experience. If these sorts of people are threatened or killed you basically guarantee that all white hat hackers will side with the government out of fear of being killed.

    So in a way if you go there, it will backfire tremendously in favor of the federal government which specializes in killing people. They will have no problem at all winning the best hackers over when the threat of death is in the air.

    In my opinion it’s best for hackers or information security professionals to discourage violence and death threats because that kind of stuff empowers governments. Whether it be the US government, or some foreign government operating within the US, it empowers them because they have the para-military operations with the trained assassins.

  • Anonymous

    First of all, I NEVER said I would kill anyone. Second, I never mentioned hackers. Third, you’re very mistaken in that the “soldiers spit on” thing was a Republican lie spread to damage and discredit the anti-war movement’s beliefs that soldiers should return – and you fell for it, wow, what a dummy. Fourth, I never once mentioned anonymous, I was more concerned with other news sources and wasn’t even thinking about them.

    Finally, if hackers can change government, I’m all for it. But I’ve been around enough to know that what they do won’t change things as long as corporations are in control and people like you don’t get involved like I do… So, when is the last time you called your representative or senator? I’m thinking NEVER!

  • ThatBostonMan

    I understand you are passionate about politics. You have to understand that violence plays right into the hands of governments world wide who specialize in weapons manufacturing and training assassins. Governments in general operate globally which means that while there are good members in an organization there are corrupted members. This includes Anonymous, Wikileaks, and the Federal Government itself. There are moles working for the interest of foreign governments everywhere.

    So when you talk about violence, and the threat of death or “civil war”, the foreign governments around the world would love to have the USA fracture and descend into chaos. They’ll come along and offer protection to hackers in Anonymous from the federal governments assassins because those hackers will be under threat of death, this will weaken the hand and options for the entire black hat hacker community.

    It would also have the same effect on the white hat hacker community. Suddenly anyone who is a white hat hacker will be under the threat of death and will go ot the US government for protection from the assassins. So basically it would completely fracture the entire hacker community, and with it the entire information security community and the entire USA. As more professionals get threatened more will be pressured to pick a side or wont be given the option and will just be “owned”/captured be one side or another, and you’ll end up with a horrible civil war.

    Personally I don’t want that. I don’t think most Americans want to be at war with their neighbors, their friends, even some of their family members, over international affairs between competing governments.

  • Anonymous

    “governments around the world would love to have the USA fracture and descend into chaos.” You say that as if you believe it’s not happening because you’re too young likely to understand where we are right now compared to before. And if you think those “White Hat Hackers” aren’t under threat of death you’re sadly mistaken. And if you think all of them can’t be turned to harm The People you’re sadly mistaken.

    The only truth left is that eventually death will have to settle it all – Like I said, I sadly won’t be around for it because it’s going to be a long time before American grow a big enough set to take back their country!

  • ThatBostonMan

    What I’m saying is that governments are exploiting all sides. They are exploiting Wikileaks, Anonymous, and HBGaryFederal. They exploit Anonymous through ideology. They exploit Wikileaks through Ideology. They exploit HBGary Federal through Money. In essence governments are exploiting all these groups in various ways so in the end ALL hackers are their own community.

    Hackers, Information Security Professionals, Information Security Researchers, whatever you want to call these people, they all have the a similar function generally speaking. They all share an economic ecosystem as well, and members of Anonymous probably gained their skills doing the same kind of stuff HBGary does, and members of HBGary probably gained their skills doing stuff Anonymous does, and ultimately just wind up on opposing sides because the governments of the world decided to categorize them into “White hat” and “Black hat”. In the end they all share a profession and will share the same dangers within that profession, so they share the same interest because within that profession a long life is a luxury, and it’s in the interest of the information security community to look out for its own interests, just like all the other professions are doing.

    Hackers can help change governments, or protect government infrastructure depending on the situation. But ultimately we have to look at governments as the common entity or force which exploits all human resources to accomplish it’s goals. It exploits hackers just as it exploits soldiers, if you disagree with this policy then you should call your congressmen about it. Cointelpro was exposed eventually, maybe we should ask for oversight and accountability?

    Recognize that the intelligence agencies have to exist and then figure out what sort of bill it would take to allow them to do their thing without disrupting our lives in the process. If they think that Bank of America is too big to fail then maybe they should explain to us why they allow corporations to become too big to fail in the first place?

    And also maybe they should explain to us the purpose behind the Chamber of Commerce? I don’t understand why we need the Chamber of Commerce but since government officials believe the USA would collapse without it, maybe the government officials should be the one to go on TV and give public statements justifying it’s existence.

    And when Obama says down with the Chamber, then we can see there are clear factions at work. In specific Obama complained about the secret foreign money influencing US elections. THAT in my opinion is the biggest scandal and what we should be focused on. Along with discovering the factions which now appear to be split between the Center for American Progress and the Chamber of Commerce.

  • ThatBostonMan

    I never said any of that. Yes I know on some level there is threat. What I’m saying right now it’s a tolerable level while if it escalates continuously it will reach an intolerable level.

    And while you might be so eager to die, and think death will settle everything, you are right I am young and I have no interest in dying or seeing anyone I care about die. I think most of the country isn’t prepared to die, and isn’t trying to die over the decisions of the US government or the decisions of some foreign government that is angry at the US government. Most Americans don’t want to be involved in international conspiracies.

    White hat hackers may be under the threat of death but currently it’s a situation where most of them aren’t. It’s just a job, akin to being a cop or investigator. Most of these security professionals aren’t being extorted by the mafia and aren’t receiving death threats. This could all change if assassins are brought into the mix, then we could end up with a situation like we hear about in other countries where journalists are being stalked and murdered for reporting on certain stories.

    So what happens is journalists in other countries ultimately have to side with one government or another just to stay alive, and that only divides “the people” up even more. It won’t be a class war, it will be rendered along nationalist lines where the US government will get as many of the best hackers onto it’s side as it can to prepare for a cyber war against other governments who will be targeting the hacker community to get as many hackers on their side as they can, until every single hacker or security professional with any skill is forced through blackmail, threats, bribes, to fight in the interest of some government or another.

    If that is the case, how is that situation better? You think those other governments are any nicer? Half of them are even more brutal. And they don’t have the money to pay, so who knows how they control their cyber army.

  • Anonymous

    ReslugliCONs are full-fledged fascists, and have been for decades.

  • Anonymous

    Bullshit. You’ve fallen for the rich man’s lie. They told you to hate your neighbor and you fell for it.

  • Anonymous

    “US” Chamber is a non USA partisan entity looking out not for the USA but for its non USA members.

  • Anonymous

    I’ve been posting comments here at Raw for years stating that paid propagandists foul these comment boards.

    Any feel like calling me a “conspiracy theorist” now?

  • Anonymous

    The Chamber’s existence has nothing to do with the government. They are an entity which started to help business create jobs but morphed into an entity to help corporations at the expense of jobs – just like the government has morphed into.

  • Anonymous

    You’re looking at things two dimensionally… I see you’re on your way to understanding more. Everything is intertwined and one change can affect something where you never imagined – it’s like wrapping your mind around infinity. The politics of everything, each thing, has a thousand layers. When you read a news article where 99.999999% of the People say, “Hmmm” and you say, “It happened because of this in 1971 and that in 1951 which was caused by that in 1927 and that in 1918 and because this law went in effect in 1983 and was modified in 1998 because that person from 1974 was allowed to go free after that other person in 1972 did a crime and the crime was done so the corporation could get this law passed to get this approved.” That’s when you’ll see what I see and that’s when you’ll change your mind about what we need to do.

    I’ll give you a simple one… 6 million Jews were slaughtered in the early 1940s because of the Treaty of Versailles. Now imagine every news story you see has a trunk and series of roots 10 times as deep.

  • ThatBostonMan

    They aren’t being paid to comment on boards. They are being paid to stalk, investigate, and possibly to intimidate. The only sort of people we have to worry about on these boards being paid would be the provocateur types who will always look for the most violent solution or dumb solution to any problem.

  • ThatBostonMan

    Even the Chamber of Commerce isn’t threatening to slaughter millions of people like the holocaust. I don’t know why you insist on seeing it that way. I think we are witnessing legitimate cyber warfare but I don’t think it’s as simple as “pick your side”, as if it the ordinary powerless citizen has that kind of power.

    You have the mafias, the italians, the russians, the chinese, and they have a side. If the FBI weren’t protecting you from them then they’d be extorting you.

    You have the terrorists, Al Qaeda, etc and they have a side. If not for the CIA and FBI they’d be attacking and or terrorizing you.

    You have the KKK, Neo Nazi’s, and fascists, they have a side and once again without the CIA, FBI, NSA, they’d be terrorizing and radicalizing you.

    Then you have the naive civilians, and they have a side. These people are our friends, our family members, our parents and children. They don’t know any of this secret warfare stuff is going on, and honestly most of us would rather they don’t know.

    And finally we have the informed groups. Hackers are among these groups, this includes Wikileaks, Anonymous, etc but it also includes HBGary. These groups are either trying to make a name for themselves and be revolutionaries to fight for what they believe in (Anonymous), or they want to take down corrupt governments through leaking (Wikileaks). And to survive / make money they form companies like HBGary making money protecting the corporate elite.

    I don’t have a problem with Anonymous or Wikileaks when they attack Egypt or some other government. Destablizing those countries may affect me but the affect is negligible. The affect of destablizing the USA would be extremely negative and it would most definitely not go well for most of us.

    Of course the elite would be protected because they’d hire people like us to protect them and that goes for the elite on any side. But also you’d see a resurgence in cyber gangs, cyber mafias, cyber vigilantism which nobody likes or wants, and legitimate and illegitimate cyber terrorism which nobody wants.

    And there is no way to know which group will wrestle control of the country in the end. It might or might not be better in the end as the new boss might be the next Stalin or Hitler and that certainly wouldn’t be better.

    There is too much uncertainty, the economy is very weak, it’s a recipe for disaster. It might help the elite left, or it might help China, or it might hurt the left, the consequences are unknown.

    These consequences in my opinion need to be explored more by people on this site before they suggest a plan of action.

  • Anonymous

    Aaron Barr: “Also need to get people to understand that if they support the organization we will come after them.”

    Aaron… Anonymous are still awaiting for you to make a formal apology to the many innocents you proclaimed a desire to “go after”. If you show no remorse, Anonymous may decide you’ve not been adequetely punished. If you are not punished and cannot be forgiven, you may still be seen as a viable target by Anonymous. Hopefully Hoglund’s example of defiance (and the inevitable consequences it caused) will serve as an education to you. Regardless of Anonymous, the people you’ve contemplated attacking deserve an apology, if I were you, I’d deliver one promptly..

  • Anon 7777

    Attention Chamber of Commerce

    We are legion
    We do not forgive
    We do not forget
    Expect Us

  • Anonymous

    http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=U.S._Chamber_of_Commerce

    Wow. Do they do anything that benefits us little people?

  • Anonymous

    I NEVER said the Chamber was threatening to kill millions like the Holocaust!!!! DUDE! FOLLOW ALONG WILL YA??!!! But since you bring it up, yes, the Chamber’s policies could kill many.

    You say, “You have the terrorists, Al Qaeda, etc and they have a side. If not for the CIA and FBI they’d be attacking and or terrorizing you.” Truth is, if not for the CIA and US policies we wouldn’t have those terrorists after us. This is what I’m saying, you haven’t gotten to the point where you understand what’s really going on… As far as naive, you are naive.

    You say hackers are informed? If those, as you say, “white hat” hackers really knew what was going on they’d be hacking certain places where they aren’t right now.

    You said, “The affect of destablizing the USA would be extremely negative and it would most definitely not go well for most of us.” – That’s what change is… if it’s worth it, people give their lives so it will be better for future generations.

    Consequenses are ALWAYS unknown. Corporations have ENTIRELY too much power right now and it’ll be almost impossible to stop them now but if not now, then when. The future will hold even more powerful corporations and they must be stopped at ALL costs NOW!

  • WaStConcerned

    …..local COC’s are actually not the problem – different organization…

    Only go after the national COC members…..

  • iRead

    Where’s Dexter when you need him?!

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