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Texas to pass bill allowing guns on college campuses

By Sahil Kapur
Monday, February 21, 2011 9:44 EDT
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WASHINGTON – Texas is poised to approve a measure allowing college students and professors to carry guns on campus, an initiative with strong support in the state legislature that critics concede they probably can’t stop.

The legislation has been championed by Gov. Rick Perry, co-sponsored by over half the lawmakers in the state House, and approved two years ago in the Senate. Texas would follow Utah, the only state in the nation to have a similar law.

“It’s strictly a matter of self-defense,” state Sen. Jeff Wentworth, a Republican, told The Associated Press. “I don’t ever want to see repeated on a Texas college campus what happened at Virginia Tech, where some deranged, suicidal madman goes into a building and is able to pick off totally defenseless kids like sitting ducks.”

The measure’s supporters commonly argue that it would make campus shootings less likely, not more, wading into a key point of contention between opponents and proponents of looser gun laws.

College leaders across the nation have criticized the idea as dangerous, dismissing the view that a filling up the classrooms and dorm rooms with weapons would make inhabitants safer.

Glen Johnson, Oklahoma’s chancellor of high education envisioned “no scenario where allowing concealed weapons on college campuses will do anything other than create a more dangerous environment for students, faculty, staff and visitors.”

That the Texas legislature overwhelmingly disagrees is a testament to the state’s gun culture as well as the towering political influence of the pro-gun lobby.

“Things do look bleak,” Colin Goddard of the Brady Campaign Against Gun Violence, who was in Austin lobbying against the bill, told AP. “People want to be the hero, I understand that. They play video games and they think they understand the reality. It’s nothing like that.”

Nationwide, the National Rifle Association and other gun-rights groups have in the last two decades outspent gun-control advocates by over 20-to-1 on lobbying, according to the Center for Responsive Politics.

Texas ranks 32nd on the list of states with most permissive gun laws, and 23rd in per capita gun deaths, according to data compiled by The Daily Beast.

 
 
 
 
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  • Guest

    Texas is now OFFICIALLY insane!!!

  • http://learnstofly.tk Klem

    Freaking cow boys….This does not looks like a civilized nation anymore, just armed and dangerous ignorant bigots…….

    “Home of the brave”…

    Gimme a freaking break…

  • Anonymous

    Carry a gun while getting an education. If you think like that, why go to school? Just go on a crime wave and rob liquor stores.

  • Anonymous

    As someone who lives and goes to college in Texas, I can say…

    Oh shit. Maybe I should look into online classes?

  • Anonymous

    I believe that ALL of the social and moral “values”, “practices” and “beliefs” that Republican conservatives/teabaggers want to foist on ALL Americans should FIRST be implemented and experienced in the great state of TEXAS. If you are a parent considering where you want to spend approximately $100,000 to provide your child a college experience they’ll remember, send them to Texas….and send them “packin”.

  • Anonymous

    No, we don’t want another Virginia Tech, better to have students shooting students and innocents being killed in the cross-fire! There’s nothing that answers the famous question, “Is our Children learning?” like a pitched gun battle in a 300 student lecture class! Why the hell not have students carrying loaded guns all over campuses.

    And when someone’s gun falls out of their pack onto the concrete floor of a large lecture hall discharging and killing someone accidentally, an about twenty or thirty other students pull their guns and start shooting too, we’ll call for gun laws and be shouted down by all those radical 2nd amendment types who will claim that accidents happen, guns don’t kill people, people kill people and freedom, freedom, freedom!

    I for one will not be allowing any of my children to attend college in Utah or Texas. I don’t care if they get full scholarships. I advise all others to do the same and I advise those who feel as I do to write the colleges and universities in Texas and tell them why you are not letting your children attend.

  • Anonymous

    I am currently an undergrad at Texas A&M, and I cannot wait for my CCL to extend my rights to be armed on campus. I can carry almost everywhere else, but I have to be defenseless at school? The states with the tightest gun laws (California and New York for example) have much higher rates of gun violence. As for you ignorant people calling Texas a bunch of red neck hicks, you should really go educate yourselves. Texas has one the fastest growing economies of any other state, and multiple major metropolitan areas. Here is some information on Texas for you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FC16-4fh-Qc
    Now leave us alone, and if you don’t like our laws stay the fuck out.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_6YBHLDOEMFAXOYVP5ZJN43MMWQ vinnysabba

    This will undoubtedly lead to grade inflation.

  • Anonymous

    Just insane. Guns and schools just don’t mix well. There will be carnage in Texas because of this extremely stupid group of clowns in the state house.

  • Anonymous

    Charles Joseph Whitman (June 24, 1941 – Aug. 1, 1966), a student at the University of Texas Austin murdered 16 people and wounded 32 others during a shooting rampage on the university’s campus, Aug. 1, 1966.

    Shooting from the Administration building tower, professors and students armed even full auto then would have not prevented this tragedy.

    Clearly these Texas “legislators” have learned nothing these past 45 years.

  • Anonymous

    let ‘em do it… it’s absolutely the only way some people will learn. unfortunately innocents will die as a result.

  • Anonymous

    How long will it be before some college kid reared on right-wing lunacy goes off on a lecturer because he is being asked to learn something that doesn’t fit with his ideological world view?

  • kiboshki

    OK, I finally admit it: it’s time to leave my home state for sane pastures.
    Any suggestions?

  • Anonymous

    I see texas is moving back to the wild west at full steam. How long until we have the shoot out at the ok university corral?

  • Anonymous

    Vermont.

  • Anonymous

    You took the words right out of my mouth.

  • Anonymous

    Ummn, try again about the rates of gun violence you redneck hick. I grew up in texas so i know all about the lone star redneck state. But awww shucks, how the heck did texas create a 25 billion dollar deficit if it has such a great economy? Hmmm, maybe rick perry has something to do with that?
    Frankly if you feel unsafe in one of the most rural counties in texas with it’s own military college you won’t feel safe anywhere, including your mama’s basement.
    Lastly, if you do not like the laws of the united states feel free to secede and we will build a fence to keep low lifes like you from trying to cross the border.

  • Anonymous

    I hope Edgar Cayce is right. He predicted Denver would be a seaport. For that to happen larger parts of Texas would have to be inundated. Good riddance.

  • Monkei

    Maybe in a couple years they will allow you to carry something more powerful … where does it ever stop? You right-wing wingnuts will never be happy with just carrying a handgun. Maybe you will feel safer with a M203 grenade launcher? Canadians get it, you don’t.

  • Anonymous

    Ya, but not a single pussy among us.

  • http://www.republithugs.com gfm975

    Redneck RETARDS… and Perry is the redest neck of all. What a moron… first BUSH and now this asswipe… Texans you deserve what you reap. And I unfortunately lived there for nearly 30 years… God I was glad to finally escape.

  • Anonymous

    I’ll shoot his ass before he can kill more people… or if we do this like the drug war (ignoring the fact drugs will always exist), we’ll have to wait for swat and police after 15 or 20 kids are killed…

  • Anonymous

    Anywhere but texas! But I would also rule out the southern half of the u.s., some of the south east and the tornado/bible belt as well.

  • Anonymous

    Indeed you’re brave if you go into a room full of strangers packing heat. But if an ignorant bigot came in I would feel much safer in that room than in a room full of unarmed strangers with only one ignorant bigot with a gun. Welcome to reality.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1046573071 Matt Mosley

    repeat after me: “Holy Shit”

  • mjcc1987

    Ah, I remember my college days. Drinking, fighting. It will be much more interesting now that you can add gunplay to the mix. Darwin anyone?

  • Anonymous

    I can’t wait for the shoot out… College students binge drinking, packing heat… College students disagreeing with a grade or point of view of their professors… Unrequited love… Up too long cramming for finals with help of methamphetamines… The list of possibilities is endless of how this could go so very wrong.

  • Anonymous

    you’re a paranoid pussy if you think you need a gun to go about your day to day life… Welcome to the OK corral.

  • Anonymous

    only slaves would give up their rights.

  • ComradeRutherford

    Living in Vermont, I must say, yes. Vermont is one of the last bastion of normalcy and sanity in the US. We are the ONLY state that didn’t have one single teabagger even run for an election.

    People here don’t act like assholes every minute of the day.

  • Anonymous

    Most Texans don’t need a gun to not be a pussy.

  • RottenJohnny

    So you don’t allow women to carry guns? My, ain’t you the true “gentleman.” Bet you even carry your own supply of GHB/GBL/1,4 BDO.

  • ComradeRutherford

    Only when 18 year old college kids, that think they’ll live forever, are shooting at each other over Facebook updates will America be finally be Free!

    Redneck assholes walking around brandishing handguns is inherently UNSAFE. The Republicans are intentionally increasing gun deaths solely for their own profit.

  • RottenJohnny

    Paranoia strike deep . . . into the heart of Texas . . .

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/HF6V37D6JRZC7LATOJY2EL2IZU Manny

    The Constitution absolutely in no way supports this twisted, perverted view of right to firearms.

  • Anonymous

    What right is being given up? You know there were lessons learned from the Wild West and that is that everyone carrying a gun was chaos. So good luck with that new law, once you open a box and thousands of rats crawl out you can never get them all back in the box.

  • http://www.republithugs.com gfm975

    Willingtodefendmyself, A & M is either ground zero, or at the very least the epicenter for right wing deranged thought… and you are an Aggie… could anyone expect anything other than you are excited to arm yourslef at school?

  • Anonymous

    I hope Edgar Cayce is right. He predicted Denver would be a seaport. For that to happen Texas would have to be inundated. Good riddance.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_3WYAWTN4LJ2TAZGFCL3U4H6AWM TheGuru

    No man, you’re a bit off there. Historically, many Texans wanted guns to insure that they kept slaves from getting rights.

    Besides, aren’t you guys protected by a bunch of professional lawmen like Walker, Texas Ranger?

  • tbl92666

    What does that even mean?

  • Anonymous

    you’ve seen one too many movies man.

  • tbl92666

    You must be terribly uncomfortable with the size of your penis.

  • Anonymous

    People who deny history will repeat it. Man.

  • Mein Furor

    This isn’t going to end well. I’ll bet they don’t get through the first school year w/o someone being shot on campus, intentionally or not, because of this idiotic legislation. Just think about all the stupid things students do at college because of alcohol consumption, not to mention hormone and testosterone-induced acts of idiocy. It would be foolish to expect students to keep their gun in their pants anymore than it would be to expect them to keep their dick in their pants.

    Idiotic legislation = teens + alcohol + guns = someone’s child will die unnecessarily at school

  • Anonymous

    Good idea. They can re-load ammo while studying.

  • Anonymous

    The first (and every subsequent) innocent that dies on campus due to this insanity is a victim of Murder 1 by Rick Perry and our State Legislature. I hope the Texas penalty for this crime gets meted out to those responsible by the victim’s/victims’ newly armed classmates. I am REALLY glad none of my children will be going to college in my home state (they are now graduates, so I’m out danger).

    Perry and the NRA want to turn our campuses into Afghanistan or Ciudad Juárez. I hope that any victims of this legislation are related to them. Seeing as how one does not need to be sane to be governor or a state legislator in our state, the hope that every immature macho packing heat on our college campuses will act sanely while armed is probably a rather vain one.

  • Anonymous

    I’m tired of letting criminals come to gun free zones. So I’m glad for the possibility of citizens arming themselves. For all of you nay sayers out there, it’s not like you would come to Texas anyways, so the only reason you’re upset is the chance these policies might migrate towards you’re state too.

  • Anonymous

    I know you don’t speak for all Texan’s thankfully. Your state will be on the national news and held up as what not to do.

  • Anonymous

    movies aren’t history. Man.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_6VIII2XPU4HUPLANTLEJGSYN7A jARED

    Let’s hope they all waste each other and we never have to read about Texas again.

  • Anonymous

    Did I say my opinion was based on movies? You seem like one of those people who will defend your right to be wrong to the death. Have a nice day.

  • dolly lanna

    Rawstory is really showing off the stuipd among us in today’s news.

  • Anonymous

    A neighbor of mine was a student at Virginia Tech when the massacre occurred. He was in between tours in Iraq as a member of the Virginia Guard. He had many classmates there who were in the Guard as well.

    Had those trained marksmen been permitted to carry weapons under Virginia’s concealed carry law, they could have stopped that monster long before he killed dozens of people.

    The killer knew that the police were the only armed obstacles to his rampage, and they were all outside. So he chained the doors shut before he started shooting.

    Had there been a couple of dozen armed Virginia Guardsmen among the several hundred students in that building, the killer never would have had a chance. He might never even have tried, since he was a rotten coward to the core.

    In Virginia, we support our uniformed law enforcement officers. But we, and they, realize that, when seconds count, they are only minutes away.

    The University of Texas was the scene of another mass shooting many years ago. Another coward armed to the teeth. The only way to stop them is to shoot them. Why all the whining about people who are willing to take the risk to take them down?

  • Guest

    What do law enforcement officials think about this? Why are there no quotes from them?

    How many dollars did the NRA spend in Texas to elect these dimwits? (I know there are percentages; how baout some actual numbers?)

    Mr. Wentworth says that he doesn’t want to see a repeat of what happened in Virginia. Okay, but what about a worse scenario? What if there are people (bystanders) killed by permit carriers? How will Mr. Wentworth feel about this? Mr. Wentwoth seems to believe that only the bad guys will be shot. What an idiot.

    I heard a statistic about shootings: only 1 in 9 bullets discharged by police officers hit what they’re actually trying to hit. If this is true, what will the statistic be for non-professionals? Will a permit holder be charged with manslaughter or murder if they kill the wrong person? Will compensation for innocent bystanders be included in this bill? If the gun carriers wrongfully kill innocents, who will pay? If a police officer wrongfully kills a permit holder, who will pay? The state should bear some of the burden since they created the conditions. I foresee many lawsuits arising from this law.

  • Anonymous

    I won’t die, I have a gun. Have a nice day.

  • https://twitter.com/DrMatthew Dr. Matt

    Only a Texan would believe that carrying gun does not make you a “pussy”. You fucking wimps.

  • Anonymous

    I said nothing about carrying, I’m just not pussying out because everyone else is carrying a gun. You fucking pussy.

  • Anonymous

    Then you must be terribly uncomfortable with my penis being bigger than your brain.

  • http://twitter.com/btmfdrsheaven rebecca meritt

    32nd in permissive gun laws & 23rd in per capita gun deaths, we in Texas can not live with those stats,we’ll be #1 if it kills you or else! The Eyes of Texas Are Upon You and we’re moving up fast. If you do not have a gun on you upon entering the great state of Texas,you will be turned around and sent back to where you came from.

  • Guest

    This law is to allow everyone to carry guns, not just the “trained marksman”. There are precious few “trained marksmen” in the general population and fewer still in the college population. When an innocent person is killed by a pemit carrier or a concealed weapon carrier is killed by a police officer, I’d like to hear from you. And can you answer me a question now? Who will be responsible if either of those two scenarios happens? Who will compensate those victims or their families? I’d like to hear what your thoughts are on that. (And please don’t tell me that that will never happen because these are “trained marksmen”.)

  • Anonymous

    you mean like the innocents at the gun free zones @ Columbine and V Tech?

  • Anonymous

    I expect nothing less from the state of texas! Home of the ignorant and immoral! You go texans!! I’m hoping every shoot out will lower the republican population and we can be rid of them! Just remember all you white boys you are out numbered by minorities, walk softly they are all out to get you!!!! BOO!

    Will rick perry be armed and dangerous now? Can’t we kick texas out of the union just so rational people don’t have to claim them?

  • Guest

    Does anyone else remember when a member of the Texas A&M Corps drew and brandished his sword to keep a member of the visiting team’s band out of the A&M end zone? That gives you an idea of the stupidity which can show its ugly head at College Station. I’m sure there are saner thinkers at A&M, but one pulling his sword doesn’t really help, does it?

  • Anonymous

    you couldn’t keep out terrorists that hijack your planes with sporks, how do you expect this fence will save you’re pussy ass? being able to protect your self is the first step to not being a slave… pussy slaves with no guns, we laugh at you.

  • Anonymous

    I think YOU’VE seen one too many movies, if you think that when a gunman enters a room and begins firing, a student armed only with a gun and a few hours (12 in Texas) of training on how to use it (NOT trained in dealing with hostile fire!) could:
    find their weapon safely and draw it out;
    determine if it is loaded properly;
    remove the safety in a safe manner of carry;
    get into a useful shooting position;
    ascertain whether or not the line of fire is free from hitting innocent bystanders;
    fire accurately;

    all in a matter of…what? a few seconds? even 10 seconds?
    Good luck with your movie fantasy.

  • http://winterpatriot.com NJT

    oops clicked “Liked” by mistake.
    I am well aware that possession of a gun in no way provides immortality to the holder.

  • Anonymous

    Can’t wait until the drunken frat-kid finds out that his girlfriend is cheating on him. Oh there will be many bullets in the air on that Texas evening — of course, I’m sure that the situation will be conducted in accordance with the benchmarks of proper gun safety protocols.

  • Anonymous

    “I won’t die; I have a gun”
    Famous
    Last
    Words

  • Anonymous

    What reality?
    How many times have you EVER been in a room with (Your words) “full of ignorant strangers with only one ignorant bigot with a gun”?

    *crickets chirping*

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KJJ4KEVT2Z5RDHTIRGJOUWL2EA Paul M

    Soon they will be pushing legislation to ban cars from the state and approve a “back to the horse” as a means of travel…then renovating housing to have a more western appearence, with swinging doors to enter bars with wooden floors and even “spitoons”. Way to go, don´t mess with Texas!

  • Anonymous

    Thanks for your note, good questions. Until he is a convicted felon, any aspiring criminal can legally purchase a weapon in certain categories. After he is a convicted felon, he can easily obtain a weapon of many more categories illegally.

    A “permit carrier” isn’t (yet) a felon. After he murders someone (or other felonious levels – manslaughter, etc.), he is one. I don’t know what you want to hear from me – that a permit makes someone perfect? No more than a drivers license does. Just ask Mothers Against Drunk Driving.

    “And can you answer me a question now?” Yes, laws are already in place, in civil and criminal courts, to determine guilt. In a killing, the permit issue is a sidebar, applicable only as an additional charge if there’s a plea bargain or fear that the other charges might not stick. If a policeman or -woman kills anybody, he/she is MUCH more likely to be absolved, probably not even indicted. As Jimmy Carter said, “life is unfair.”

    By the way, criminals are much more afraid of concealed carry holders than the police for a simple reason: the police are trained NOT to shoot. That’s why Maryland’s crime rate went up after VA passed CC laws. Criminal stands on the 495 bridge and says, “which way do I go to find the least resistance? Maryland, where they aren’t allowed to carry — or DC, where (until recently) they aren’t even allowed to be armed at home!”

    Best

    Chris in VA

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5Z4JRNXBCO4ZYSUY3WGC3S554I nathan

    so fucking stupid..allowing guns in school will do nothing but cause violence.

  • Anonymous

    “Not a single pussy among us.” That’s why you don’t get laid. Johnny 5 and friends armed, horny and hating.

  • Anonymous

    Your ignorance makes you a slave and your guns only make you a thug.

    And guns surely didn’t protect those slaughtered at the alamo.

  • http://twitter.com/btmfdrsheaven rebecca meritt

    This should give a whole new look to frat.hazing.

  • Anonymous

    “I’ll die before you can take my gun” is more like it.

  • Anonymous

    Ever hear of people getting shot in the back?

  • Anonymous

    We couldn’t keep out the terrorist hijackers because we had eff’n texan pussy for president at the time!

  • Guest

    We obviously don’t agree on this and probably never will. I don’t agree that guns should be on campuses. If I had a child in college, you can be damned sure they would never go to school in a state like Texas or Utah.

    I do share the criminal’s fear of the concealed permit holders’ lack of training. I would much prefer a society where only law enforcement had guns. (And I’m not naive enough to think that criminals won’t get guns.)

    There is a cavalier quality to your answer that I don’t care for. “Life is unfair” has little to do with this situation. You seem to feel that if a few more innocent people get killed, that’s okay. I don’t think so. And I don’t think throwing guns at this situation is going to reduce the number of people who are killed.

    Arming everybody is a poor answer to the problem of crime. I never will understand why so many people seem to feel that guns are the answer to violence. To me, the problem is the 2nd amendment and its expansive interpretation by the courts. And of course the NRA which takes an extremist view on anything that has to do with guns.

  • Anonymous

    I am sure you spend a great deal of your time in rooms with ignorant bigots, and that is just when you are at home. lol

  • Anonymous

    “Welcome to the OK corral”
    Almost verbatum what they screamed so loudly in Florida when they gave folks the “right” to defend themselves rather than retreat. No shootouts in the streets yet……….

  • Jaimie11

    Pussies come in both sexes. Don’t confuse the issue.

  • Phil E. Drifter

    You’re a fucking retard. Read the 2nd amendment on the Bill of Rights again.

  • Anonymous

    Or the chest when they don’t have any training or skill. A gun is a tool not a magic shield. If you can’t hit a nail, learn to use the hammer. I have seen more than one person get shot for thinking the threat of the gun will save them.

  • RottenJohnny

    Ya, I know: in Texas, it’s kinda hard to tell em apart.

  • Phil E. Drifter

    And I bet you’re wrong.

  • Jaimie11

    George W Bush was born in Connecticut – I think that makes him a Connecticut Yankee doing a con job – and he hangs out in Maine whenever it’s not too cold up there.

  • Anonymous

    Ok Sarah get your gun Palin “don’t retreat reload”. Why do you want to see a bunch of college students have guns when most of them can’t even do their own laundry? Most “folks” don’t think they need a gun and I’m guessing that most “folks” will avoid Texas and I’m also sure that would be just fine with you. What is with you “folks” in Texas and your guns?

  • Jaimie11

    He was a crazy guy. Outlaw crazy? Do that and maybe you can outlaw everything that throws a spanner in the works. You’d be safe and sound, but there’s be no black swans either, nothing ever outside the box.

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/KNS2UDSXYOFR5C3KCW2SYW3FLI Dolly Dagger

    Texas is not a place for sane people.

  • Anonymous

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

    Nothing said about hand guns in schools or being able to randomly shoot people. Also for the federalists, the original intent would be referring to rifles for farmers due to the lack of a standing army. Let alone the lack of police, etc. Nothing in the 2nd amendment about an individual’s right to own weapons since it refers to militias. So how about that you fucking redneck gun clutching inbreed son of a biscuit eater? So if texans want to roam the streets with 18th century muskets and rifles under the name of their local brain dead militia I am 100% for it!!!

  • gypski®

    How quickly Texas forgets the shooter from the tower at the University of Texas.

  • Jaimie11

    The statistics don’t show kiboshki would enjoy an appreciable chance of not dying by gun shot in Vermont over Texas.

    Texas Gun deaths per 100,000: 10.7 Permissive gun laws: 32nd out of 50

    Texas population 24 3/4 million 2648 gun deaths per year would translate to 2079 in Vermont if its population were as high as Texas’.

    Vermont Gun deaths per 100,000: 8.4 Permissive gun laws: 3rd out of 50

    Vermont Population 622,000 52 gun deaths per year compared to 67 in Texas if its population were as low as Vermont’s.

    Statistical difference in risk – 0.00554% greater in Texas.

    If you want to prevent unnecessary deaths look at the statistics for iatrogenic causes of death – far in excess of 200,000 per year and the majority caused by Big Pharma, and never addressed and getting worse.

  • Jaimie11

    There will never be a well-regulated militia if we are not permitted to own guns. If government officials are concerned about the abuse of guns let them lobby for people to form militias in communities across the US who wish to be part of our homeland defense. Everyone will be then be well-trained and the crazies will be weeded out.

    Don’t make that an impossibility. Doing so is an indication the government cares not about our rights and our capacity to defend our communities, our country, but to disarm us counter to our innate right to self defense, and in violation of the Constitution.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_YHUR5LALBGRBDQ5VAKAL3JDKNU JustinB

    I thought the “cowboy” and the image of the wild west were created by Marlboro?

    Mikethedog what did we learn from the Wild West? As it is depicted in Hollywood it was guns that protected the people from the guns that the criminals used to rob trains and banks. It wasn’t until “Macgyver” came around that we realized that we don’t need guns to protect ourselves. Because you know non of Macgyver’s methods have debunked and he proved that we don’t need guns to defend ourselves. lol

    The only people that have proven to be protected by laws controlling or banning guns, are the criminals and corrupt governments that will never lay them down. Almost always its the innocent responsible citizens that actually play by the rules that fall victim to it.

    I wonder how Mexico would be right now if their citizens were armed?

    “So good luck with that new law, once you open a box and thousands of rats crawl out you can never get them all back in the box.”

    Actually I challenge this argument, if a student, teacher or child were killed as the result of some idot misfiring his weapon in a dorm or class and I bet the “rats” would quickly be placed back in the box. Hard to imagine anything other than that happening, at the very least a moratorium.

    Also, Mikethedog, since you seem to know so much about what will or will not happen. What is your solution to this problem?

  • Jaimie11

    Dolly Dagger is the name of a sane person?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_YHUR5LALBGRBDQ5VAKAL3JDKNU JustinB

    “Did I say my opinion was based on movies?”

    Nobody said it but its quite obvious. The “Wild West” only exists in Clint Eastwood, Will Smith, and everyone else’s mind that follows their movies.

    Mike, what you are describing is about as real as the first Thanksgiving with the Pilgrims and Indians. Why don’t you tell us all about Johnny Appleseed too? Did you know he never existed? If you also think “Pocahontus” and the rest of the Indians were environmentalists as “Disney” and Hollywood suggested then maybe you should pick up a book and turn off that LCD…

    In all honesty, you do seem like you are getting your view of history, at least in part by the movies. Just your mention of “the lessons learned by the wild west” shows me you know not too much about that time. I don’t claim to be an expert (nor do you) on the subject but at least informed enough (by the books I read) to know that what you are saying is complete bullshit.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_YHUR5LALBGRBDQ5VAKAL3JDKNU JustinB

    “I am well aware that possession of a gun in no way provides immortality to the holder”

    You are right, but wearing that suit might!

  • Anonymous

    Gives extra meaning to the phrase… “Bowling for Columbine.”

  • Anonymous

    What problem? Crime? Well stop poverty first, then drug, alcohol and domestic abuse. Carrying a gun will not solve anything.

  • Guest

    Some sanity for a change! I hope more states pass laws like this. Since non-discretionary laws have passed in more than 35 states multi-victim public shootings have seen a 60 percent decline and and even greater drop in the number of victims per incident. This absolutely is a no-brainer. Those CPL holders already can carry. The difference is where they are allowed to carry.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_7CSFVPT2NMJXXALBMG5K7VVBHU Mike

    Hey at least we will have the choice. Rather than being told “No, you can’t?” I’d say that is an improvement on its own.

  • Peter Carlsen

    UT had such a great experience with guns on campus when a man in their iconic tower killing 16 or 20 students down below. Perhaps they just want to do better, because everything is bigger in Texas. They also have that famous anti litter sign, “Don’t Mess with Texas,” which causes most same people to say, who would want to.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_YHUR5LALBGRBDQ5VAKAL3JDKNU JustinB

    This lesson plays out almost daily in South Central LA. Some idiot pulls a gun to intimidate and gets shot in the face.

    That’s why they say if you are willing to point the gun, you better be willing to shoot it. This is a good point too, there is a demographic of people that don’t take guns serious enough and would probably end up shot for doing something as stupid as waiving it around for attention.

    Where I stand on this, not everyone should be able to be armed. You need a license to drive because you are operating a vehicle that could kill. Same should be said about a gun.

    If you don’t agree with the 2nd ammendment then you should leave the country or agree to disagree. USA is obviously not for you. And also I love the arrogance of these commenters that think they are smarter than our founding fathers.

  • Anonymous

    Let the mayhem begin!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Oh you Texans…and your love of guns on the hip.
    If ya’ got crotch problems, get a Harley Davidson and ride it off.

  • Anonymous

    Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I volunteer with law enforcement here. We wince when we hear about the innocent civilian (unarmed) killed by a uniformed officer, who is in turn exonerated under questionable circumstances. Makes everybody look bad.

    Brutality is bad enough (the ubiquitously abused SWAT routine is indicative), but lawyers defending police in criminal court always try to make the jury afraid that they will be defenseless if they convict this defendant. “You’re punishing him for trying to protect you,” etc. All too often, the bogus defense works, and the bereaving family of the innocent deceased goes back to a home with an empty bedroom. I recall one Missouri police chief: “I hate the Internet,” he said, as one of his cops was actually convicted because his brutality was on film and then on youtube.

    I love the Internet.

    When an armed criminal invades a home, an automobile, or your “space” as you walk along the street, your weapon is not an “answer to violence,” it is a deterrent. You don’t like the NRA, but they catalog the thousands of instances that the prestige media seldom cover in which people successfully defend themselves, their homes, and their families against armed felons. People ought to have reasonable means of defending themselves. Where we disagree is on the issue as to whether private citizens can reasonably be permitted to defend themselves with guns. I think they should be able to.

  • je_proteste

    Secede now, Texas! Please!

  • Guest

    They’ll be much less likely to “go off” because even though these mass shooters are crazy.. They appear to be afraid of citizens carrying guns. That’s why since non-discretionary handgun laws have swept the country these sort of multi-victim public shootings have plummeted 60 percent and fewer people are killed and injured when they do occur. The remaining public shootings usually occur in “gun free” zones. Which is ridiculous because law-abiding folk leave their gun in the car whereas homicidal nut jobs that expect to die in the attack don’t care if they get kicked out of school – or loose there CPL.

  • Anonymous

    Justin for whatever reason you think everyone needs a gun well probably not everyone huh? Well, no I don’t believe all of your bullshit, but then if you have a gun and I don’t I’ll bet that would make you right.

  • Guest

    This ain’t Canada.. thank god.

  • Guest

    you may not dig Texas but lots of people are going there. Every state with low taxes is seeing growth and the jobs that accompany growth.

  • Guest

    grow up. Learn a little something about this subject. Actually.. by a gun – if you’re old enough then you’ll come in contact with hundreds of people that own guns and find out what you thought about them is all wrong.

  • Guest

    nonsense. It clearly does.

  • Guest

    I bet you’re wrong too.. In fact this isn’t the only state or school or time period where people – even much younger children could take their guns to school – like high school. There didn’t seem to be an old west shootout everyday. statistically permit holders are extremely law abiding. Any crimes committed by a permit holder are a very rare thing indeed.

  • Guest

    not going to happen. In fact violent crime will likely drop more. And with the low taxes Texas will continue to draw people and businesses.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_YHUR5LALBGRBDQ5VAKAL3JDKNU JustinB

    Out of every article available on Rawstory, this one has more references to Hollywood than any other.

    Is this a sign of the level of actual experience and education on the subject?

    I am astounded that many of you do not see the link between preventing oppressive governments and the right to bear arms. Has anyone actually done research comparing countries that outlaw guns and those that do not. Just from personal observation, our closest neighbor Mexico does not have the right to bear arms… It seems as though the only people suffering from this law are its citizens. How can any of you deny that? If you can get to Home Depot, you can create one yourself. My point is, there will always be guns. And you will be less likely to be oppressed by your government or by thugs if they think you may have a gun.

    If you were a burglar, an oppressive agent, or a sicko that gets off to murdering families and you had 2 homes in front of you. The first home has an NRA sticker in the window, a dog, and family asleep. The second home is exactly the same, minus the gun. Which door would you kick in first? Which home would you rob first?

    What if, God forbid, our country is invaded? What if our National Guard was not their to protect you? We as a country would be much more difficult to oppress and invade if every citizen were armed. Just like how having nuclear weapons deters enemies from attack or invasion the same could be said about its citizens.

    To all of you referring to the “Wild West” you’ve seen nothing yet. Wait until food, water, and oil are scarce and nations start competing for real resources, then you will see your real “Wild West.” Until a solution is found this is exactly where we are headed.

    You know, that gun can also feed your family. Watch the “Alaska Experiment” and see how much better they survive with a gun. Near impossible without.

  • Guest

    Please tell me where it “clearly does”. I await your response.

  • Anonymous

    I find it humorous how many people think if they all of sudden allow guns on campus everyone is going to be having a shoot out as if they are mentally unstable. The only people that will be randomly killing are the same people that would do it regardless if they are allowed to carry or not. THEY ARE CRIMINALS….

    now a little history lesson…

    “In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

    In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated..

    Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.

    China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated

    Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated..

    Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

    Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

    Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 55.9 million..or more”

  • http://winterpatriot.com NJT

    the government shall not infringe the right to keep or bear arms. Nothing specific about guns. Anything that may be considered “arms”, I have a right to keep and bear.
    So the way i read that, I have every right to cannons, tanks, anti-aircraft missile launchers, and nuclear warheads.
    Am I right or what?

  • Anonymous

    also id like to add that Utah has has a similar law since 2007. Havent heard about frat party shoot outs yet….

  • Guest

    You don’t consider the National Guard a well-regulated militia?

  • Anonymous

    Great idea! A bunch of students with guns shooting in a crowded classroom. What could go wrong.

  • Guest

    You probably won’t ever agree because you’ve never been a victim of violent crime, or known CPL holders or even known anything about guns. I recommend you try exercising your rights. Buy a gun and learn about safety and all the laws. After all, you benefit from a net reduction in violent crime because other law-abiding citizens carry guns that deter crime – at their own expense.

  • Guest

    There isn’t a lot of evidence that this will be the case. almost 40 states have non-discretionary carry laws and a murder by a CPL holder is an extremely rare thing. Even more so if he or she actually uses a gun in the commission of a crime.

  • Guest

    nonsense. It never has before.

  • Guest

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

    this amendment is more clear than perhaps any other in the bill of rights.

  • Anonymous

    I already know what law enforcement thinks of it. I know guys on the DPD (Dallas cops). They are both republicans, but think (and know form experience) that the more guns there are out there, the more people get shot. It’s not a difficult phenomenon to figure out.

  • Anonymous

    Why? They have plenty of guns in Canada. They just don’t have the fear of everything that moves.

  • Guest

    It says “well-regulated militia”. How does that bear any relation to an individual buying an assault weapon at a gun show?

  • Anonymous

    Even Charlten Heston said no on that.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_YHUR5LALBGRBDQ5VAKAL3JDKNU JustinB

    “Justin for whatever reason you think everyone needs a gun well probably not everyone huh? Well, no I don’t believe all of your bullshit, but then if you have a gun and I don’t I’ll bet that would make you right.”

    Definitely doesn’t make me right, and I never said I had a gun.

    Debating with you seems pointless as long as you continue to make assumptions and banter like a child. You are just throwing up an opinion that has yet to show a base other than hollywood. You seem emboldened by the fact that you view is largely supported on here. All I have to say is that, if you don’t like the 2nd amendment, then move or agree to disagree. Many Men and Women died for our rights, many generations before your parents were conceived. So please don’t disregard their knowledge and experience by insulting them with your attempt to abolish the 2nd ammendment. We’ve been very fortunate to grow up and live in the time we do. I can see why people may think that we don’t need guns. Why they are so willing to trust the government.

    Oh and by the way, the 2nd ammendment was created as a result of history and the desire to not repeat our history riddled with oppression and genocide.

    Also, Mike we can tell when you “like” your own posts…

  • Guest

    It’s refreshing to find someone who thinks they know so much about me. Let me give you a clue since you are clueless: you do not know JACK about me.

    I’m going to pass on your recommendation that I buy a gun. The supposed “benefit” that you claim I have is more than offset by the concern that I have that one of my fellow citizens may shoot me. As for the “reduction in violent crime”, why are there so few deaths from guns in countries where gun ownership is strictly enforced? Why is the US the country with the most deaths from guns? Riddle me that, Batman.

  • Anonymous

    Oh shut up Sarah, I mean Glen or is it Rush? Who’s we? You and your gun?

  • http://winterpatriot.com NJT

    So Charlton Heston determined that the 2nd Amendment does not mean what it says?
    Can you please point me to the ruling or the legal interpretation that defines “arms” to not include anything other than guns?
    I might need to cancel my anti-aircraft missile order….
    thanks!

  • Guest

    And don’t forget that the NRA fights for unreasonable laws as well. Such as the right to buy assault weapons and fighting against being able to track where ammunition was purchased. There was a reason that George H.W. Bush gave up his membership in the NRA. They’re an extremist organization.

    Perhaps the gist of our disagreement is on “reasonably” in your penultimate sentence.

    I believe that I should be able to be reasonably secure in my safety. I just don’t believe that more guns improves my safety.

  • http://winterpatriot.com NJT

    I mean seriously, though, what’s with the selective interpretation?
    Does it mean what it says, and every American has every right to their own personal nuclear warhead?
    Or do we interpret what’s reasonable for our day and age?
    So even though it says i can bear arms, we all agree that citizens shouldn’t have nuclear warheads, because that would not be reasonable or safe.
    Therefore college kids should not have guns at school, for the same reason: it’s not reasonable or safe. 2nd Amendment be damned, or else I want my nukes.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_YHUR5LALBGRBDQ5VAKAL3JDKNU JustinB

    The OK Corral? Wasn’t this battle the result of a town being harassed and oppressed by gun toting thugs? A lot like what is going on now in Mexico… This shootout was a result of too much oppression, the good people pushed back. If only Mexican citizens were allowed to do the same…

    I don’t think guns are the answer for everything, most 2nd amendment supporters think the same way. Most don’t post on rawstory either.

    For example, look at Egypt. How amazing was that? A peaceful revolution. The people did not have to kill or more importantly “shoot” anyone to accomplish this. Do I believe this could happen in every country? No of course not. But this is a prime example of how change can be brought without blood shed.

    Just because I support our rights to bear arms doesn’t mean that I believe it is the solution to everything. Do you believe not having the right is the solution to everything? Probably not so grow up.

    Do you think cars should be outlawed? They kill thousands a year, far more than a gun.

  • Guest

    Again – this ain’t Canada – thank god. My firearms are not permitted in that British colony. They’re too American. Well I guess also Austrian, German, Russian and other but still… mostly American.

  • Anonymous

    That picture says it all, thes epeople think that having a gun will make the bad things go away. In reality it makes them part of the problem, here’s an example. You have a fight happening on campus and a student/gun owner things he can stop it by helping the person or the person is a friend or family member. He draws the gun in an attempt to stop the fight and when it doesn’t he shots. The problem comes when you figure out that the person you shot was the victim and the you helped to enable or kill the person of the . Just because he or she is your friend doesn’t make it that they where right. You could end up being a co defendant in a murder trial. In fact the person who was fighting the other that you came to the defense for may end up testifying against iyou in a murder trial. He or she would say I didn’t aks them to help me, they came over and pointed the gun. You could end up doing life for something that wasn’t even your business.

    Young adults don’t make rational decisions sometimes, hell even older adults don’t either. But giving them a device where it can kill and/or seriously maim someone for life is not a good idea. If they want to have a weapon, keep it off campus.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_YHUR5LALBGRBDQ5VAKAL3JDKNU JustinB

    Mike you debate like a republican. You ignore every question asked of you and continue to respond with very general and unoriginal sound bites from the 2nd smendment opposition.

    How can I stop poverty? “Stop poverty first”

    For the record, crime is not a result of poverty. Unless you are one of those sick child molester types (now it makes sense) that doesn’t think molestation of little boys is a crime. This crime will carry out despite the level of poverty. It would make sense as to why a child molester might not want guns in the general public. Molesters are more likely to get shot.

    There’s no point in debating with you as right now there is no debate. Answer my questions and I will continue.

  • Anonymous

    “More Guns…”

    Well, having one when home invaders appear unexpectedly might save your life. But even if you don’t own one, if your neighborhood has a reputation for gun nuts and a few NRA stickers on windows and cars, you might benefit from that reputation when criminals scouting your neighborhood decide to look elsewhere because of the danger armed citizens pose to the marauder – who prefers unarmed victims to armed ones.

  • http://www.rawstory.com/ Stumptownhero

    I wonder how this will affect the decision of students to attend college in this modern version of the Wild West. I would not allow my son or daughter to attend one of their universities.

    The police will tell you that last thing they want is an “amature” untrained police force shooting guns in public. Add in the drinking on college campuses you have a deadly mix.

    I can only hope this is Darwin’s theory at work.

  • Guest

    yes. The evil militia is every armed man and woman in America. The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed… is that difficult for you to understand? Plus the gun show “loop hole” is just a restriction on private transfers. I bought one of my favorite ar-15′s from a private seller on the secondary market. Surveyed criminals bought firearms at gun shows less than 1 percent of the time. Whereas closing the “loop hole” would prevent me from selling a shotgun to my neighbor. Already the Brady Law outlaws private pistol sales and the Brady Law has not been shown to have a positive effect on violent crime. – This includes the background check provisions that are still enforced even though they’ve been deemed unconstitutional by the supreme court. So I guess if you can’t understand the what the second amendment says you could let the supreme court inform you – one telling case is Keller Vs. D.C. and look how that turned out.

  • http://www.rawstory.com/ Stumptownhero

    Oh like Utah is remotely comparable to Texas GMFB

  • Guest

    I love how anyone that cares to protect himself in others with the heavy cost and responsibility of gun ownership and CPL automatically have small dicks. I wonder which camp is really insecure. You anti-gun people experience the advantage in reduced violent crime rate by those around you that choose to carry handguns. This is especially pronounced in women and minority groups and in populace areas like the inner city.

  • Guest

    My neighbors can choose to participate in the gun madness; I choose not to participate. I’ll rely on my Rottweilers and the dog sticker in the window. My understanding is that burglars do not like dogs, especially big ones that will attack.

    Also, isn’t there a statistic in law enforcement that having a gun in your home increases your chances of being the victim of a violent crime?

  • http://www.rawstory.com/ Stumptownhero

    Dude the gun ownership horse is out of the barn and there is no movement to take your guns. Allowing guns to be carried in every situation will not make anyone safer but will increase the odds that an innocent bystander will get shot!

    As for the freedom thing: If your governor ordered the state police to shoot at you, like the Governor of Wisconsin is contemplating would know it’s coming and have plenty of time to get yer gun and ammo. This is a phony argument in a country with more guns than people!

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_YHUR5LALBGRBDQ5VAKAL3JDKNU JustinB

    Is “Sarah” your only response?

  • Guest

    nonsense, the more good people out there with guns the less violent crimes can be perpetrated against them. There is an added benefit for those that do not carry guns – especially women.

  • http://www.rawstory.com/ Stumptownhero

    And since Texas is soooo gooood at screening the nut jobs who should be surprised when the psycho’s start shooting with their open carry weapons…but hey some other guy packing got him after he killed ONLY three students and the “hero” only hit four other students before he got the kill shot.

    Dumb F’n bastards ..lock & load baaabee!.

  • Guest

    Looking at the numbers you’ll find that police shoot innocent people accidentally at a 10 times greater rate than civilians. And all these numbers are very low. about 30 per year for armed citizens and a little more than 300 for police.

  • Guest

    obviously there is more guns than people. Firearms aren’t just a responsibility they can also be quite an enjoyable hobby. It’s really relaxing to go out and do some target practice. And once you try a wheel gun, you’ll want to try a lever gun and an automatic etc. Then you may want to make them more accurate etc. Give it a try sometime before advocating the revocation of rights for other Americans.

  • http://www.rawstory.com/ Stumptownhero

    Thats total BS. Cops will tell you that it takes REGULAR training to take down armed criminals. Male ego and Hollywood have convinced too many Americans that if they had a gun they could do something to stop the whackos.

    In Tuscan the shooter got off 32 shots in less than 25 seconds. Even if there was an armed bystander he still would have emptied his cli[ before the “hero” had a chance to draw, clear a line of fire and actually hit the target.

    Don’t belive me? Take a training course with the local police force and then get back to me!

  • Guest

    I do not equate “every armed man and woman in America” with “a well-regulated militia”. As far as the Supreme Court and politicians go, they are toadies of the gun lobby and would not dare stand up to them. If you want to buy at a gun show and pour thousands of guns on the market. I guess you have the right to do so, and I have the right not to like it. God forbid we attempt to regulate the purchase and distribution of firearms

    For me, I choose not to participate in what I consider madness.

  • http://www.rawstory.com/ Stumptownhero

    While you might “feel” safer the FACTS are that your gun is many more times likely to be used against you or a loved one that to protect you or your property.

    You have said previously that merely brandishing prevents crime but until you come up with some stats on that I’ll rest my case with the FBI crime stats for the past 40 years!

  • Anonymous

    Yikes — be careful! Rottweilers attack their owners as often as they do strangers! Our paper this a.m. had three people hospitalized – the couple who owned the dog and their friend who tried to pull him off the owner.

  • http://www.rawstory.com/ Stumptownhero

    Can we have an independent source for the success of brandishing. When NRA stories are investigated many, not all, turnout to less than accurate!

  • http://www.rawstory.com/ Stumptownhero

    But fewer college students. The majority of parents don’t want, particularly their daughters, to be on campuses with guns!

  • Guest

    That’s great. I recommend you actually do some reading on the subject I think you’ll be surprised that you’re arguments don’t stand up. And furthermore firearms manufacturers provide a valuable product for the half of us that do want to be able to defend ourselves. Women for example are outclassed by even the twinkish men. Gays and minorities and abortion doctors and regular doctors can carry guns – even white dudes and liberals can. I think you should think about your civil liberties position before advocating taking away rights that pre-date the constitution from other Americans. And fine – you don’t have to exercise you’re rights but you should thank the other armed civilians out there that reduce your likelihood of being the victim of a violent crime. You don’t have to exercise your right to free speech either but you shouldn’t condemn others for doing so.

  • http://www.rawstory.com/ Stumptownhero

    Actually until last years ruling the Supreme Court had NEVER validated the INDIVIDUAL right to bear arms.

  • Guest

    Riddle me this dude.. do you have an intimate knowledge of guns and experience with them and with violent crime in your community? I’m sorry if I offended you because I GUESSED that you do not. And it seems like a pretty good assumption. Also, if you look at Chicago and D.C. Both of these counties have seen dramatic increase in the rates of murder and rape compared to other cities that fall under the purview of non-discretionary concealed carry laws. Check out John Lott Jr.’s “More Guns: Less Crime” to get some straight answers on the effects of gun control laws. – both good and bad.

    I’ll ask another riddle why is it that you people only care about the civil liberties that you like and not about the second amendment. You would have others denied their rights because you have a “feeling” that it isn’t common sense. Take a look at what happened to the murder rate and “hot” break in rates since the draconian gun ban in the UK.

    And all that aside. It is our right and responsibility. Anyone can be prosecuted for a crime committed with a gun. You cannot take away the rights of everyone because a minority may act improperly.

  • Guest

    That is a myth. I’ve known several Rottweilers and owned three (as well as two Dobermans). None of them attacked anybody or showed the least aggression. They were all big cream puffs and babies. It’s all in how you train and treat them. But God help the person who tried to enter my house without my permission; I’m sure they would have torn him apart. My brothers’ Rottweilers did attack a burglar; they ran him out of the house and the female came back with a piece of bloodied material that looked like the seat of the would-be thief’s pants.

    My guess is that that owner did something to provoke the dog and probably didn’t train him or care for him properly. I’ll stick with the Rottweilers. You can have your Remington, your Glock or your Smith and Wesson.

  • Jaimie11

    Nonetheless, there is no cause to confuse the issue in a sexist manner. And you can’t make a statement like that about Texans – shows you’ve never been there.

  • Anonymous

    Still making no sense I see!

    If a person “expects to die in the attack” what good does everyone having a gun do to stop such a person from doing what they are going to do? Isn’t it just as likely that other innocent people could be killed if several people start shooting at the shooter from different directions?

    Further how do you account for the fact that the shooter in the recent assassinations in Arizona, Jared Lee Loughner, picked a place that wasn’t a “gun free” zone, shot people in a state that has the most lax conceal carry laws in the United States, still is in the top seven states for gun murders, and still had over the last 8 years, from 1999 until 2007 placed seventh in gun deaths for all states, and in 2008 it ranked second in Gun Deaths. Evidently letting everyone carry guns didn’t scare Loughner or prevent him from doing waht he wanted to do.

    He wasn’t shot by anyone, I guess all the people with big dicks and their guns weren’t around that day, instead his gun was wrestled away from him by an unarmed man (with a small dick) and a woman when he tried to put a second clip in the gun. If there was still a law preventing sales and ownership of the 30 shot magazine (for those military types who are going to complain that it isn’t a clip) he would have killed fewer people that day.

    The one person at the scene with a gun who decided to play cowboy nearly shot one of the people who disarmed the shooter, luckily he held his fire and later learned that the person he would have shot was a hero. If he had had a bigger dick he might have killed that hero.

    When do you want to continue our conversation about “Birth of Nation” (1915), “The Clansman” (1903) and the KKK?

    1999-2007 Stats:

    http://www.azcentral.com/community/pinal/articles/2011/01/27/20110127arizona-gun-death-rate-nations-worst-sev.html

    Arizona second in Gun Deaths

    http://www.alternet.org/news/149502/arizona_has_turned_into_a_gun_lover%27s_paradise_–_and_that%27s_why_it_ranks_2nd_in_per_capita_gun_deaths

  • Jaimie11

    Your comment is quite hateful, while johnfive’s are not. Are we to conclude it is YOU who is horny and hateful?

  • Anonymous

    We concede! It’s pretty apparent you are the bigger dick!

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_YHUR5LALBGRBDQ5VAKAL3JDKNU JustinB

    Excellent point! If their proves to be a need for campuses to be protected, this isn’t it.

    Just as an example:

    We all fly in airplanes. What if American Airlines said it was now ok for us to arm ourselves to defend against terrorism while in flight? I don’t know for certain but I bet it would be a lot more dangerous for those on the ground, not to mention those in flight! Could you imagine what would happen if a shoot out were to occur on an airline? Or if 5 different people jumped up to shoot at the same time, an innocent would surely be hit. Even when you have a situation where multiple cops are going into a scene or reacting to one, it is heavily coordinated. They are trained in advance how to avoid shooting each other and innocent civilians. Even police have trouble keeping their weapons harnessed when off duty and under the influence… Could you imagine a college campus? Frat party? God help us!

    Now back to the airline comparison. There are armed undercover security agents on most flights. If we feel so vulnerable at school, we need to treat it like the airlines. They send undercover cops to High Schools to bust drug dealers and gang members. So if there is a need to protect our students why not have undercover cops in College? Or at least undercover private security? Surely the cost of security is much less than paying out a death claim…

    I support the 2nd amendment, but I do not support students being armed at school. In my opinion its just as dangerous as flying in a plane where everyone is armed.

  • http://www.rawstory.com/ Stumptownhero

    I’ve been shooting live ammo since I was 9. Started with a 22 and by 10 I was using a 12 gage double barrel getting paid 25 cents to kill starlings eating cherries. I have won a turkey or two in my life but still do not want every Tom Dick or Harriet to pack heat in public.

    We now know that the decision making ability of human brain does not fully mature until 24-26 years of age. Do we really want immature persons packing heat in THAT setting? I mean seriously do you want “boyz” more interested in seeing whose dick is bigger drawing on each other?

  • RottenJohnny

    Been there many times. With Texas rewriting history books, wanting to succeed from the states, ad nauseam, there is hardly anything one can say about the state that can be considered sexist, racist, or any other ist. Dude, you’re getting what you deserve.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_YHUR5LALBGRBDQ5VAKAL3JDKNU JustinB

    Just read the comments “dude” (should I refer to you as I would a lumberjack, since you have a photo of one) there is quite a majority here that thinks the 2nd amendment was a mistake.

    I wish I read this before I responded to your post above and how you refer to me as “dude” because I have a pic of a snowboarder on my icon. Just like you assume that because I defend our rights to bear arms that I think student should carry guns. No dude I don’t think students should carry guns, at all.

    Do you think police should have guns? Military? Government? Why?

    My argument may not exactly pertain to the article, however it is in line with the debate within the comments. Don’t disregard my arguments as phony. That is far from the case.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_YHUR5LALBGRBDQ5VAKAL3JDKNU JustinB

    “I can’t wait for the shoot out…”

    You disgust me! How can you say this? You want people to die and suffer injury just so you can say, “I told you so.”

    You criticized me earlier, saying that I my only purpose was to be “right” sounds to me more like a self description. I would rather be wrong then see anyone get injured or killed.

    How old are you?

  • Anonymous

    Now why would anyone want to sectionalize George ‘W’ Bush this way! Especially after all the did for the Texas Rangers.

  • http://www.rawstory.com/ Stumptownhero

    And how many police are there compared to CC holders? And how many times are the CC holders REQUIRED to draw their weapon?

    Actually these numbers support my premise. If there were as many CC permit holders in as there are police their lack of training would turn theose numbers upside down with 3,000+ killed by civilian Dirty Harry’s.

  • Anonymous

    It’s the name of a popular Jimi Hendrix tune!

    You should know all about Jimi Hendrix having gone to school in Europe.

    He was a much bigger star there much sooner than he was here.

    Maybe not on military bases but certainly “on the economy”!

  • samhoustonTX

    It means this: There is one pistol per person in all taverns and bars in Texas. If you go into one of them not carrying a pistol, that means someone else is packing two. Thanks to the new gun bill, we can now say that about the universities and colleges in Texas. The University of Texas vs. Texas A&M could be a real battle.

  • Anonymous

    I notice whenever you give statistics or say things as if they are fact, you never give a wehsite or any source for your claims.

    Since I already shredded your claims about the first KKK, “The Birth of a Nation”, (1915) and “The Clansman” (1903), your unsupported claims have no validity with me. I caught you in about 5 lies in a one paragraph post on those topics less than a week ago, so you should probably start supporting your BS with either links or sources.

    Here are two sources who contradict your claim:

    Shooting Down the ìMore Guns, Less Crimeî Hypothesis
    by Ian Ayres* & John J. Donohue III**

    This is a pdf file that you can get from this website: http://oregonecon.blogspot.com/2009/01/economists-notebook-more-guns-more.html

    This same site also contains a link to Mark Duggins refutation of Lott’s research entitled “More Guns, More Crime.”

  • grindermonkey

    I can see it now, a hail of gunfire results from a dispute involving the conjugation of the verb to be and the political correctness of the Latin phrase “esse est percipi” Binge drinking and binge shooting won’t mix with binge learning.

  • Guest

    There you go again, trying to attribute something to me that I didn’t say. As the lawyers say, you’re assuming facts that are not in evidence.

    Let’s make something very clear. I am not suggesting that we deny the right to own guns. I didn’t say that and probably wouldn’t support it. However, I do not believe that your right to bear arms should extend to every square foot of the country; schools, churches and public buildings should be off-limits. There are limits to free speech, why shouldn’t there be limits to firearms? So I am not advocating a denial of your right to own a gun nor am I condemn you for doing so.

    Also, I do believe that gun sales should be more strictly regulated. People who buy guns should be more thoroughly trained and vetted before they get to carry one.

    As far as reading goes, I read enough to know that you can find books to support any given opinion. It’s called ‘selective perception”. If you continue reading books that only support your opinion and are not critical of them, you will never broaden your view. I know that. (That’s why I read Barry Goldwater’s “Conscience of a Conservative”. You’d be surprised how few Republicans know what Goldwater thought or have actually read his book.) So maybe I will pick up a book on gun rights; just don’t expect me to swallow what they’ve written as the unvarnished truth just because it’s in print.

  • Anonymous

    ethananaim
    Actually i am not anti gun…I am anti guns with machine gun capabilities.
    I don’
    t hunt, but members of my family and circle do ; I like game food as much as you do.
    I just don’t think 33 shots are essential even for target practice. An d carrying a gun into a bar like in the old west…
    well it made interesting movies we all enjoyed. Those days are gone. We still have shoot’em up tv and movies.

    By the way… I was three points short of Marksman in the Patton’s Thrid Army in Europe and then on to the Pacific Theater of operations in the Philipines and then Japan…. but that was a lifetime ago…I don’t talk about it…it was part of who I am. But that’s all.

    Peace be with you Texas….maybe I was a bit of a smart ass …..just firing from the hip/lip.

  • Anonymous

    No, your mentality makes you a slave as you would give up our freedom to make you feel safer, and you are only a thug if you use a gun to commit a crime. Millions of gun owners in this country are not part of the criminal statistic. Law abiding citizens who own “registered” firearms need not be feared, but breaking are laws should be cause for fear.

  • Anonymous

    No racism now, do it in texas whitey and thats it

  • Jaimie11

    Oh yeah, that insipid avatar really gets his intent across.

    Unlike you I have never been on a military base in my life. I was born anti-war.

  • Guest

    I don’t suggest, won’t suggest and haven’t suggested that you should not be allowed to have a gun. The article is on guns being carried in Texas in institutions of higher learning. Yes, I’m against that.

    I am not too worried about second amendment rights being taken away as long as the extremist NRA is around. I am however worried about them being interpreted in such an expansive way. Is there no limit to the types of weapons and where they can show up? Now I have to think about whether I’ll go some place depending on where guns are allowed. Should I go to church? Should I go to national parks? Should I go to a bar and have a drink? What if a fight breaks out and someone pulls a piece? You seem to great solace in knowing that everyone has the ability to kill someone. I do not derive great comfort in that.

    Please don’t refer to me as “you people”; it’s insulting. And your tone is becoming somewhat patronizing. So this will be my last response to you. I do not wish to participate in an irrational discussion filled with invective. We do not agree; let’s leave it at that.

  • Anonymous

    Most of these stupid libertarian types have history upside down and backwards, that is probably because they learned it in Texas or were home schooled from a carefully selected list of texts. (Now watch at least one person [J11] say she went to school in Europe–as if military bases were somehow different.)

  • Anonymous

    At least reply to the comment and it’s intent. I SAID, there have been no shoot outs in the streets since the laws were passed. Have you even been on a college campus!? Even as a visitor you could see that those attending are not stupid or vicious, Is it a crime to defend yourself????? If an offender beats you with a club, would you move to outlaw baseball bats????

  • Anonymous

    Try to pass a law that would allow you to carry a gun onto corporate facilities and you will see who really runs the country. Parks and schools are ok. Large corporatiions would never allow it.

  • Anonymous

    You are very delusional in calling yourself a law abiding citizen yet calling me a slave for giving up freedom to feel safer. Perhaps you just don’t read what you write and just spout out whatever you hear your puppet masters tell you. One cannot live in a society with rules without giving up some amount of freedom. Does that make one a slave? If so then all the world is a slave and either way you are still an ignorant ass whose gun will do nothing to change that very fact.

  • Jaimie11

    Have it your way. Prejudice is a wonderful thing, especially when it is so useful to the oligarchs who exploit prejudices all the time to obscure their guilt and deceit.

  • Anonymous

    I agree, you are a no-brainer.

  • Anonymous

    Umm, no. There are these people who are called police and they do that job quite well. People like you only end having your gun stolen, or used in domestic disputes. And other than in your delusional world people walking around with concealed handguns do not stop crime from occurring.

  • Anonymous

    How many children or spouses are killed in a home with a gun? Oh yeah that’s right, much higher than the number of people shot by police.

  • Anonymous

    No binge learning going on in texas, let alone conjugating any verbs that would resemble proper english.

  • Anonymous

    Well for starters that “he” is a “she” thus the reference to “Dolly Dagger”!

    The rest of your post is equally misinformed hyperbolic BS!

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_YHUR5LALBGRBDQ5VAKAL3JDKNU JustinB

    Come on “dude” how can you sit here and criticize my comment as “phony” when you are making statements like,

    “We now know that the decision making ability of human brain does not fully mature until 24-26 years of age.”

    Do you know any hardcore conservatives over the age of 26? I would argue that 24-26 is not accurate and there are far too many variables involved to make a statement across the board like that.

    So you think they should raise the age to become active in law enforcement? Surely rookies entering the field at age 21 – 24 pose a real danger to us, according to your argument. Who is your source for this information?

  • Jaimie11

    Hendrix was a she? Wow, you *were* intimate with him.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_YHUR5LALBGRBDQ5VAKAL3JDKNU JustinB

    There are more guns in America today than during the time you refer to as “The Wild West.” More people per capita have guns today than during the time you refer to as “The Wild West.”

    Turn off your TV and read a book. This is exactly why we can’t cut education.

  • Johnny Warbucks

    So, this is lesson learned from Columbine and Virginia Tech. Give dumb kids booze, drugs and guns. What can possibly go wrong?

    Now, here’s what kills me and one of the many utterly stupid things about this country. If a kid gets caught in high school or elementary school with a nail clipper or a Swiss army knife, they get sent to jail (yeah, the do, that was the little scam that bastard in PA had worked out with his buddies in juvie hall). Yet, by the time they get to college, they give them guns. They give everybody a prostrate and anal exam at the airport but they give these kids guns. Over 30,000 people a year die as a result of gun shots. None, not a one dies as a result of “terrorism” – You just can’t make this crap up. This country has gone batshit and nobody can pull it out of the whole it’s dug for itself.

  • Johnny Warbucks

    Well, I’d love to see you put that theory to the test in Wisconsin.

  • Anonymous

    These wingnuts think shoot outs in the dormitory or parking lots will help the economy. What a bunch of idiots. Since the session began, they passed a law that will require picture ID to vote which will make it more difficult for a couple of people to vote, a law requiring women receiving abortions to see a sonogram (as if they don’t anyway), and now they are putting guns in the hands of students at universities. I think next it will be guns at church and bars. They think these social issues are more important than the 28billion dollar shortfall.

  • Anonymous

    Yes, every situation needs more guns.

  • Anonymous

    You ARE a pussy if you think you need a gun to go to Safeway for cigarettes.

  • Anonymous

    Unless someone decides to kill you and steal your gun.

    If I was a crook and wanted to steal guns, I’d follow the guy with the NSRA bumper sticker to his home.

    “If they have the drop on you, it’s worse than being unarmed”-advice from a police trainer.

  • Anonymous

    To which a gun stealer says, “OK”.

  • Anonymous

    No, you won’t. Have a nice fantasy life.

  • Anonymous

    And what right have not enjoyed, carrying a gun to class? Grow up.

  • RottenJohnny

    Well, gee whiz, prejudices also work well for a state that refused to allow it’s children to watch a speech by the president of this country. I have no problem calling a spade a spade, so I wonder just how American a state really is that wants to secede from the union; that rewrites history so only the history Texas thinks is relevant is taught; that wants to use the bible as a science textbook. Keep them steers scared, dude.

  • Anonymous

    If Tejas would pass a law that you cannot have a loaded gun on our person or touch a loaded gun with a BAC over 0.0000 percent, this law would be less insane.

  • Anonymous

    Constantine said something similar about Christianity.

  • Anonymous

    Hell they had a shooter on the Austin campus this last year! Has anyone ever seen any statistics on how many lives are saved by citizens carrying guns? It is insanity.

  • Anonymous

    There is more to the Texas Tower story.

  • Jaimie11

    I think you are talking about some areas of the state. The school districts are independent. And I wonder how many backwoods places there are where you live. I’d say at least a few, so why don’t I characterize your state as bumfuck and you as bumfuckee.

    So, what’s the point of prejudice again, Jammer? If I remember correctly from my psych reading, prejudice makes the one practicing it feel superior. Why would you need to do that, anyway? :)

  • Anonymous

    What happened at the Texas Tower is that every yay-hoo with a gun came out to “help” the police and started blasting away at the tower.

    They missed, mostly. The shooters apparently didn’t understand that those bullets had to go somewhere.

    The cops who finally took initiative and went up and got the shooter did so because they wanted the yay-hoos to stop shooting!

    Oh, by the way, there were several hundred armed, trained guys in Dealey Plaza that day….sure helped!

  • Anonymous

    Your point is self-disproving.

  • RottenJohnny

    Hey, it was your gov that proposed seceding from the union, but whatever floats your boat. Ain’t no skin off my chicken.

  • Anonymous

    Bullshit is cheap in cotton country. There was a shooter on the campus of UT this past year.

  • Jaimie11

    Oh my, you are an adamantine sort. I remember you – you’re one those hard lefties who thinks when the Dems take over heaven will be realized on earth. You must be in a really bad mood about Obushma. I don’t blame you, but I knew it would be the case – what he would do to his people. It was written in the stars.

  • Guest

    I agree it’s worse than being unarmed. But if someone is pre-meditative in and hunts you down. You may have a very little chance of defending yourself. I think that these cases are in the minority. Obviously flaunting the fact that you are a gun owner can have mixed results. A home with a sticker “This Home Protected by Smith and Wesson” would probably deter a great many would be robbers. But you’re right there’s always the risk of ambush. That doesn’t negate the right to protect one’s self, family, and property. Criminals are the most likely to fear a concerted ambush when lawful concealed weapon holders suddenly disclose that they are ready to fight. And it seems like from between 800k and 2.5 million crimes are stopped each year by these sorts of people and 90+ percent of the time one needs only to show a pistol and the attack ends. That’s really only academic in my opinion because clearly we have a right to keep and bear arms – it’s a right that pre-dates the constitution but is also enshrined there in extremely clear language.

  • Guest

    perhaps we should all have a drum circle too. I beg to differ that carrying a gun will not solve anything. It significantly reduces the number of violent crimes especially rape and murder. It also evens the playing field much more for women and blacks. I think pink pistols may have an argument or two if you’re interested. The fact is that if a potential victim may be armed they are much less likely to targeted. The more permits issued in any given county tends to reduce crime accordingly. The only factor that has a greater impact on the level of violent crime is arrest rates and putting more police on the streets much more expensive than individuals purchasing and permitting their guns. Also, police need only apprehend the bad guy once you’ve been made a victim – then it is too late. You’re first line of defense for you and your family.. is you and your family.

  • Guest

    There are quite a number of schools and large universities today that allow the lawful concealed carry of handguns. Historically also and to my knowledge there’s never been an incident involving an unlawful or unintentional discharge by a permit holder of any kind. There have been, however, numerous examples of students stopping multi-victim mass shootings long before the police arrived on scene.

  • Guest

    having our children exposed to more govn’t propaganda at publicly funded schools is.. well.. creepy.

  • Guest

    sometimes you really do. I lived in Flint and Detroit for 10 years and it would have been easy as pie for some of the situations I faced to quickly become life threatening.

  • Guest

    The point is that there is a distinct difference between criminals and ordinary people. Even though many of us own guns – we never contemplate robbing a liquor store – the reason for this is simple, we are not criminals.

  • Guest

    To my knowledge there has never been a murder or unintended discharge of a permitted weapon in a school – furthermore, even if a gun was dropped it would be extremely unlikely to go of because all modern firearms are designed not to. I doubt any CPL holder is carrying a single-action colt army with a round under the hammer.

  • Guest

    Einstein here is no match for us. His white hair is too much – we must capitulate to his worldview that people that don’t believe his way must be forced to give up their second amendment rights. Hell, we’d to well to give them all up – they’re stupid anyway. They can be misused by people. Everyone needs to have a padded room installed in their house so they don’t hurt themselves or others.. America!

  • RottenJohnny

    Telling kids to stay in school is creepy? I guess it is if the school uses the bible as a text book.

  • RottenJohnny

    And all your posts prove beyond a shadow of a doubt Texas pussies need to carry guns in class. Just remember: point it at your crotch, cause if it does go off accidentally, then you wont be able to procreate.

  • Guest

    My contention is that my earlier assertion remains unchanged. I understand that bad things happen – really no amount of gun-control is going to make people perfectly safe. But the numbers remain the same as well – even though these people are deranged they seem to be sensitive to the fact that the public may be carrying guns. This is evidenced by the above numbers that can be found and referenced in Dr. John Lott’s “More Guns: Less Crime”. Also, for the single example you cite there are a great many public shootings that have been thwarted not only here but in other countries as well by civilians with lawful firearms.

    Also, nearly shot the the wrong person doesn’t cut it. Civilians are much more likely to kill the right person than the police are.. by a factor of 10. Also in Arizona there have been examples of armed citizens coming to the aid of police officers and no examples of permitted person shooting a police officer.

    For all of you that don’t know. Mr. Einstein here is bringing up the “Birth of a Nation” to slander me out of context – which is typical of his sort.

    In conclusion I guess your advocating that we get rid of a critical civil liberty because something tragic happened to someone or you don’t particularly agree. This is also common of your sort.

  • Anonymous

    I would love to go to, lets say Texas AM, and every day going to class, dress up like Rambo, no shirt, camo paint and wear every gun I own and could carry and have the crasiest look I could dawn, everyday.
    These people are complete idiots.
    Didn’t they learn about the last shooting in Texas, how many died 14
    Crasy and guns don’t mix, and in Texas there are plenty of crazies.
    Also you can buy any gun in Texas.

    Lets just see where this goes

  • Anonymous

    Neither you or I know that. It’s called the future.

  • Anonymous

    I pull a trebushay behind my Volvo.

  • Jaimie11

    You’re a disgusting dirt bag. A gutter mind, stupid and stubborn.

  • Guest

    he was in a very good shooting position compared to his targets on the ground. Also, he was nuts… Think we can make that go away with laws?

  • Guest

    no. especially right now. It’s a standing army.

  • Anonymous

    Cheney has three of them that he stole from the air force:

    US hits panic button as air force ‘loses’ nuclear missiles

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article2702800.ece

  • Jaimie11

    That sounds like a huge exaggeration. You’ve seen the film footage – doesn’t support your story.

  • Guest

    People that get permits have to go through quite a few hoops and by and large there are no violent crimes to speak of by permit holders that coupled with the fact that the greatest net benefits are from the issuance of more permits means that it should be easier… not harder to obtain a permit. I’m glad you’re not completely into the revocation of the second amendment so for that I apologize. It’s a deal on the book exchange then. I just added the Goldwater book you cited. I recommend John Lott’s “More Guns: Less Crime” 3rd edition – but just about anything historical or current that discusses second amendment issues wiill do just fine. Lott’s book is a bit dry and also focused narrowly on a few laws rather than the overall historical relevance of the second amendment. You’ll forgive me but jumping on the second amendment and saying that it doesn’t give people the right essentially to buy and sell guns rubs me the wrong way because it is so clear – especially when you apply founders intent.

  • Anonymous

    Next week they will pass a bill, “Ammo Stamps.” The college kids can get a booklet for the month that contains coupons for free ammo at Mal-Wart. Your alotted amount will be based upon penis size. This was an added provision pushed by the psychology department. Tear down the libraries that contain those “banned” books and turn it into a shooting gallery. The hell with History 101, replace it with “Reloadin 101.”

  • Guest

    why on earth would that need validation? what part of “the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed” do you not understand?

  • Guest

    the daughters are the ones that would benefit the most from being armed.

  • Guest

    you don’t think your tone is patronizing? I’m willing to have a discussion – although I don’t apparently have all the time “you people” have. Yes, I think it’s ridiculous that you should limit certain venues where mass shooters have been known to target – With a CPL you can go pretty much anywhere – and there are no problems – it becomes a felony the second you step into one of these “gun free” zones. The person with a CPL that can already pretty much anywhere else is no more likely to commit a crime with his handgun. The only thing that that restriction does is disarm a potential victim. While there may be some merit to other restrictions on where you can carry a licensed pistol – I don’t think this is a good example.

    I believe that in a few years you’ll be able to look back on this Texas law that is almost certain to pass and be able to say that it did good… or that it least did no harm. Also, people do have the ability to kill even without guns and even without knives and sticks. It’s not about that – it’s about the right to defend ourselves against serious injury and death. As a by product it also seems very much like it reduces overall violent crime.

  • Guest

    You’re referring to a seriously flawed study by Kellermann. In it Kellerman took only 444 homicides that occurred in victim’s homes in only 3 counties and matched them with 388 “control” individuals matched for demographics. They asked the control group lots of questions including do you own a gun etc. And based on that information determined that You were much likely to use a gun against someone you in your own home. The report is obviously nonsense.

    Lott explains the ridiculous nature of this study by setting up an alternative example where you obtain a list of all the people that die at a hospital in a given year and then ask a “control group” questions such as “have you been to a hospital in the last year. The obvious conclusion is that going to the hospital is seriously dangerous while ignoring all other factors such as a person that goes to a hospital may in-fact be seriously ill.

    I assure you that (aside from believing that the bill of rights actually guarantees these rights) that noone i know who owns guns has ever committed a crime against anyone he/she knows and that all the guns in my home are treated with the respect they deserve. At the same time a few people I know have thwarted criminals without bloodshed just by asserting their unwillingness to be victimized. I also know one man that killed an armed carjacker in Detroit. And although it is emotionally troubling – it is much better than being dead.

  • Guest

    Police receive quite a bit of training to use firearms offensively because it is their job to apprehend criminals for prosecution. It does not take nearly as much training to use a firearm defensively to save you life or ward off the would-be attacker – A CPL holder is not likely to pursue his prospective assailant.

  • Guest

    I’ve read of Donohue’s paper second-hand through Lott – which is a good read – check out the 3rd edition. In regards to your assertion that you caught me in 5 lies and shredded my arguments – I don’t know what you’re talking about. I have a real job and do not have responses mailed to me as I do not have time to fight with idiotic liberals on medicare. I’ll look into Duggins refutations but even if I trust that source it doesn’t change the second amendment – that is quite clear. So I’ll continue to advocate for your free speech, religion, redress, and other rights. I would expect you to do the same in regards to the second amendment.

    A novel Idea would be to buy a gun, even a man of your advanced age could be sure to enjoy popping off a few rounds at a silhouette shaped like a conservative. Just… use your imagination.

  • Anonymous

    Let Texans cull their own herd. The rest of America will be better off with fewer Texans polluting the gene pool.

  • Guest

    That is a kind response J_Lindsley – though we will have to somewhat disagree on this issue. “High capacity” magazines don’t seem to increase the rate of violent crime at all. Nor did the assault weapon ban. I am for extremely limited restrictions on rights of all sorts and for all people. There are plenty of laws out there to prosecute criminals that do wrong by society.

    Returning veterans from the 2nd world war did a lot of good based on their real experiences with the mortal use of force. I would argue that it’s precisely those people that government is frightened of. That’s at a time when men were men. The folks around me take for granted that the supermarket will constantly be flooded with unlimited goods that they have the money to purchase but this has not always nor will it always be the case. Speaking with my grandparents about the second world war (my grandfather was in the eastern theater when Germany surrendered).

    Firearms are a tools that our founders thought were vital to a free republic. It’s not just about property and it’s not just about hunting. It’s about freedom – and my forefathers fought for it. I certainly will too – albeit in much smaller ways (hopefully).

    I have a hellofalotof questions for you given your mysterious statement about your involvement with WWII. Many folks I’ve spoken to summarize the entire ordeal in only a short sentence. So I get it – but it may be useful to write this stuff down. First-hand soldier accounts are some of my favorite reading – even when there is no contact with the enemy because it speaks so much to a genuine human experience. One that we often have not had to endure.

    And although I don’t have any magazines that hold more than 30, I don’t want to be limited because others feel that the second amendment doesn’t apply past 30 rounds. I believe that as much as I think free speech should be limited to designated free speech areas.

  • Guest

    Fortunately I’ve never had the experience of either having a small dick or having to draw my gun on anyone. Again, permitted CPL holders virtually never draw on anyone who isn’t directly threatening them or others. And while I agree that in this day-and-age people reach maturity slower – it is telling that if a person can pay for a firearm, training, and permitting fees they are likely capable of being trusted no matter what the setting. You of all these people here must know that there is no great danger to this legislation. Gang related crime accounts for up to 80 percent of murders in this country. I think that is separate issue in regards to drug laws – the boyz you are talking about do not account for law-abiding citizens carrying handguns for their protection.

  • Anonymous

    What did these morons forget about Charles Whitman Texas University tower 1966 kills 14 and injured dosens.
    If everyone is carrying a gun how do you tell who’s crazy and who isn’t.
    Campus police are going to love this.

  • tbl92666

    Doubtful.

  • Guest

    no one said shit about the bible jammer. Having out magnanimous leader speaking to our children in public schools IS creepy. And so are you.

  • Guest

    If you punish people for what they might do in the future – then we’re screwed. You must prosecute people according to law for what they have done.

  • Guest

    How many times to CC holders deter crime… between 800000 official and 2.5 mil estimated. I’m glad you trust our moderatly compensated police as much as you do. Right now their roll is relegated to revenue generation. As much as I appreciate the police in my area I’m as trusting of them as I am the next person. I think you would be wise to do the same.

  • Guest

    do you know that for sure. And if so what are the circumstances that you would have me stripped of my constitutional rights? Are you going to kill your spouse and children with a knife or stick? Does my owning a guns make me more likely to destroy my family?

  • tbl92666

    Nonsense. You people make me less safe. You want to play cowboy in your own house, fine. I don’t want you and your itchy trigger finger walking the streets, with me, salivating at the thought of playing out your Clint Eastwood wet dreams.

    Why do we accuse you of having tiny dicks? Uh, could there be a bigger phallic substitute than a gun?

  • tbl92666

    For someone with a real job and no time to fight with liberals…blah, blah, blah — you’ve racked up a ton of posts, here.

  • tbl92666

    Because freedom of speech, religion, the press, etc. do not kill people.

  • tbl92666

    That just proves you don’t know what you are talking about. The so-called Texas miracle is a sham — the result of money received from the Feds.

  • tbl92666

    You sure do like to throw around the p word: p**** is as p****.

  • Guest

    also. Duggan’s study based his results not on actually gun ownership but ASSUMED that sales of a specific magazine “guns and ammo” was connected to gun ownership. When magazine sales change, murder rates change.

    very nice – Einstein. This is like citing sunspots with a relation to the stock market.

  • Guest

    even if you leave Florida and Maine out of the sample Donohue’s arguments are bogus at best describing either less of a significance on violent crime or no change at all – which doesn’t really support your argument Einstein.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_PCHLMPBJKYTW3LJBHZEZMO3TXQ What Ever

    Short memory. See Texas Tower. Whitman 1966

  • Guest

    If any of my guns are stolen I will report them promptly happy citizen

  • Anonymous

    And what exactly are the chances that you well need to ‘defend yourself’?

    And if someone DID start shooting off a gun, can you guarantee that YOU won’t suddenly freeze up? Or if you do draw, that you won’t hit someone by accident?

    The risks are too great.

  • Guest

    don’t know what you’re talking about – did you switch to education for no reason?

  • Anonymous

    And what exactly are the chances of something like that happening at a college?

    Chances are far greater that someone could accidentally get hurt or even killed. And even having a gun won’t guarantee that you’ll be able to use it effectively in the VERY SLIM CHANCE that it could happen. Chances are greater you could either freeze up, get hurt yourself or hurt someone else in the melee.

  • Anonymous

    Missing the point.

  • Guest

    so invalidate the bill of rights because all actions have consequences and some can lead to loss of life?

  • Anonymous

    I’m pretty sure they were using sarcasm. They aren’t saying they WANT people to die. They’re saying that mixing guns and drunk young adults is a recipe for disaster.

  • Guest

    I have over a period of time. And I assure you, I find the time to write a lot of letters Todd. I also pay a shit load for dumb folks not unlike you.

  • Anonymous

    So if it’s so rare, WHY permit this at all?

  • Anonymous

    And how many instances of gun violence have occurred on school grounds? I think of Columbine and Virgina Tech and that’s it.

    A college campus is NOT the place for guns. It will only lead to more pain.

  • Guest

    Well too bad Todd. I carry a gun and you can eat me – I don’t have an itchy trigger finger. I have had plenty women. Though I’ve probably treated them better than you. None of them had too much negative to say about my gun. And for your information Clint Eastwood movies are mostly pretty good although for a Pokemon fan I’m sure something that Americana wouldn’t appeal to you.

  • Anonymous

    That’s why they invented MACE.

    Otherwise, to claim that having a gun will make a woman ‘safer’ is simply an ignorant assumption. Because chance are, her attacker is armed, too.

  • http://bigdanblogger.blogspot.com/ Big Dan

    I DEFINITELY would NOT want to go to a college where kids sitting next to me in class have guns! That is INSANE!

  • http://bigdanblogger.blogspot.com/ Big Dan

    School is not the place for guns. Why do you need a gun in a classroom? That is not the place to “prove” you have “gun rights”.

  • Anonymous

    Besides the point.

    The fact of the matter is, it’s NOT ENOUGH to simply own a gun and carry it around or even trained in it’s use. Would you be able to shoot, with PERFECT accuracy, at someone who suddenly starts shooting in a crowd? Would you trust yourself enough to not freeze up? To NOT hit a by-stander?

    These are questions, I’m sure, every decent cop asks themselves each day. And most of all, would you be able to live with the reality that YOU, no matter the outcome, took another life, be it friend or foe? Would you be able to deal with that? THIS is the reality.

  • Anonymous

    Oh, really? You saying a woman like myself couldn’t POSSIBLY defend herself unless she was carrying a gun? I have self-defense training and I could easily get myself mace.

    It doesn’t matter how many supposedly ‘good people’ there are carrying guns. All it takes is ONE BAD PERSON carrying a gun to start shooting in a space full of people. And let’s see how invincible you feel when you either freeze up, can’t shoot because you’re too afraid to hit anyone, or DO fire and hit some innocent person.

  • Anonymous

    Because people are too scared of each other. They foster an environment of fear towards each other.

  • Phil E. Drifter

    Paranoid pussy, or prepared? Because I guarantee you, if you don’t carry a weapon, the only possibility you have for yourself is to be a victim.

    You’re not gonna save anyone being unarmed, not even yourself.

  • Phil E. Drifter

    You know there were lessons learned from the Wild West and that is that everyone carrying a gun was chaos.

    You have any sources or are you just talking out of your ass? Because there was no ‘wild’ west, only what you’ve been taught to stereotypically think the wild west was.

  • Phil E. Drifter

    You’re a fuckin’ idiot and i’m not gonna get into a ‘yes it was’/'no it wasn’t’ argument with you.

    You’re wrong.

    Are you an employee of News Corp, by any chance?

  • Phil E. Drifter

    No but with one i’ll probably last longer than the crazy who busts out his weapon in a public place.

  • Phil E. Drifter

    Nope. it’s a place to defend yourself with lethal force, if need be. I’ll bet the 31 victims at VTech wished some other students had brought guns. Columbine too.

  • DriveBy

    This will improve test scores in Texas because we will soon see teachers giving their students all A’s in their tests. If this had come sooner, George Doofus Bush would have graduated with honors, not with a “C”.

  • Anonymous

    Ummm, Mike, just an FYI… You do realize you just called yourself on your own BS with that post…

    That is the real reason we have gun rights, to keep people with guns and or ill intentions from taking our rights..

    No matter who..

    If you don’t like that fact, well, then you better be ok with the consequences of denying such a basic and usually lethal fact…

  • Anonymous

    Hate to pp on everyone’s little love-fest about that peaceful revolution in Egypt, but that one ain’t over until the fat lady sings…

    The Egyptian military is staffed with regime cronies from any rank high enough to sign a hand-receipt up to the top brass.. The Egyptian military has no interest in a reduced lifestyle, especially the high brass I just mentioned…

    Soon, we along with the Egyptians will learn a basic fact about Liberty and rights: Rights can be inherited, but they are only won on the battlefield..

    You will know it’s real change when the body count is high enough.

  • Anonymous

    You are welcome to try… :)

    Too bad the state won’t let them keep the body, I’m sure all that blubber would make excellent compost for their tomatoes…

    After all, we gotta be responsible and recycle as best we can…

  • Anonymous

    If you don’t like it, just stay the hell out of Texas..

    Oh yeah, and if you have any principals, don’t buy anything that involves Texas.. So no oil and gas or oil products..

    Otherwise get back to pumping that oil we pulled out of the ground and/or shipped and/or processed here into your SUV, slurp down that hot starbucks heated with energy we Texans sold you, put that big goofy vacant grin back on your face and then kindly STFU.

  • RottenJohnny

    Muchos gracias, Hefe.

  • Anonymous

    And that ain’t the first lie he’s been caught in either!

  • Anonymous

    I think you meant to say “principles” … not “principals”.

    And your logic is purely that of … a RW moron, esp. the part that assumes that any energy used outside of Texas CAME from Texas.

  • Anonymous

    The fundamental mistake you are making is . . . in assuming that the readers of RS will buy the idea that RW morons actually OPPOSE totalitarian dictatorships.

  • Anonymous

    Maybe you should learn to use proper nouns instead of pronouns! Proper nouns leave less doubt about the referent. I find it telling that when you write ambiguously it is the fault of your reader if he or she misunderstands you. Another problem that recurs again and again when responding to and communicating with those who preach personal responsibility.

  • Anonymous

    People who are calling on Texas to secede … should insist that THIS time, Texas leave the Union WITHOUT taking any slaves

  • Anonymous

    One of the reasons that Duggin’s based his study on purchases of the magazine “Guns and Ammo” was because he found a clear correlation between gun sales and sales of the magazine but because there is no way of actually knowing how many people own guns or how many people are purchasing guns in an area he used magazine sales because that was a number that was much more easily tracked. All of which points to a problem with Lott’s research does it not? How does Lott claim to know how many people own guns?

    Complications from that issue aside for a moment, perhaps you can explain this recent chart that while showing no clear relationship between gun laws and gun deaths, shows a clear pattern that the looser the gun laws the more likely it is that the state will rank higher in gun deaths. There are some notable exceptions to this trend, but it is pretty clear. Arizona with the loosest laws in the nation, ranks no 2. Try to explain away this results presented in this chart…

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2011-01-11/20-deadliest-gun-states-from-mississippi-to-arizona/2/

    The fact that there is no clear correlation between gun laws, and gun deaths by itself confounds and refutes John Lott’s simplistic relationship in his obviously flawed study, “More Guns, Less Crime” now in it’s third edition as several here have noted as if that matters as to the veracity of the research or the truth value of the ideas.

    Marx’s writings, for instance, are in about their twentieth edition does that mean they are 7 times more likely to be accurate than a book only in its 3rd edition? Or is it possible that any old lie can be republished again and again and again?

    And then there is this statement by a criminologist at Florida State University:

    “Places that have more guns have more gun violence, and Arizona is very high on that,” said Gary Kleck, a criminologist at Florida State University whose work on the defensive use of firearms has made him one of the leading scholars on gun rights. His book, “Point Blank: Guns and Violence in America,” raised questions about the value of gun-control laws.

    http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2011/01/27/20110127arizona-gun-death-rate-nations-worst.html#ixzz1EgedMRb0

    But I am sure that this person can’t possibly know more than you can he? No one possibly could, could they?

  • Anonymous

    Yes the only way to protect poor unarmed women, is for all men to carry guns just like in the westerns, because all those Hollywood films were the real history of America!

    Do you have any films in particular hat you think prove this latest theory that you want to discuss?

    Here are some statistics for you–England which makes it especially hard to own a gun had 42 gun deaths in the whole country of over 50,000,000 in 2008 or less than 1 gun death per million population.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/britain-records-18-fall-in-gun-deaths-1232069.html

    While Arizona which makes it extremely easy to own a gun, whose laws encourage everyone to own a gun had 15 gun deaths per 100,000 population or 150 gun deaths per million population.

    Still think strict gun laws don’t lower the rate of gun deaths?

    And Great Britain is 27 times more densely populated than America.

    Sources

    http://www.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/customs/questions/population.html

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2011-01-11/20-deadliest-gun-states-from-mississippi-to-arizona/2/

  • Anonymous

    “I’ve read of Donohue’s paper second-hand through Lott” this is never a good idea! If you want to know what an author says and talk about them you have to read them for yourself. You better learn to do this pretty soon, too. Especially if you are going to argue with me. Letting other people tell you what was in “The Birth of a Nation” (!915) caught you up in the lies of others and so will this.

    If I cared enough about Lott’s argument or thought that it was worth the time it would take to refute it in a careful and scholarly way I would spend a couple of days reading it. But I never for a minute believed it was even possible and knew that it was a specious political argument, opinion rather than science dressed up as science by manipulating the evidence or the numbers. Except for his book, no one has ever made that claim. Ever. And if you read the lawsuit filing against those who have called his research bullshit it is pretty clear that he has manipulate the numbers. He claims that no one who uses the same numbers he has and uses the exact methodology he did has ever come up with a different result. Or in the words of the Court filing:

    “Lott’s conclusions on this subject have generated a great deal of controversy. But every time an economist or other researcher has replicated Lott’s research, he or she has confirmed Lott’s conclusion. No scholar who has replicated Lott’s statistical analysis has concluded that the data and methods on which he relied don’t support his conclusion.”

    That is like saying 5 – 4 equals 1 and then claiming that anyone who subtracts 4 from 5 will always get 1. But this claim says nothing about the validity of using 5 or 4 in the first place. And the court filing is careful not to make any claims about the validity of using Lott’s numbers; it only claims that if you do and follow his methodology exactly you will get his result. In other words 5 – 4 does equal 1.

    Since the chart from “The Daily Beast” clearly refutes Lott’s theory, and since Duggin’s research and refutation shows that Lott has no clear basis for his gun ownership figures, I don’t think there is any need to continue down this road.

  • Anonymous

    Wow.

  • Anonymous

    You assume that I meant that literally which of course I didn’t. I must have struck a nerve in you because I have 12 replys from you ranging from 3:30 PM yesterday untin 2:36 AM this morning and in my estimation is you are stalking me.

  • Anonymous

    “the “right” to defend themselves rather than retreat.” You sound like Sarah.

  • Anonymous

    If he doesn’t jack you up from behind first.

  • Anonymous

    Let’s hope you shoot the right person and not an innocent bystander. Then let’s hope some jumpy person doesn’t pull out his glock and shoot you because he got spooked. But than again, to right wingers, innocent bystanders are just collateral damage.

    If you become collateral damage, would your family count it as such? Or would they think it murder?

  • Anonymous

    What puppet master? This coming from someone who wants to be told which freedoms they should give away in the pretense of living in a ruled society that is safe. If you expect the local police force to prevent a crime from happening to you, you are in for a horrible surprise, as they respond after a crime has occurred. Ignorance…? Look at yourself and question your puppet master, oblivious_citizen.

  • christoofar

    Wow, & thought they had enough problems handling a beer bong. Now this makes perfect sense to me.

  • Anonymous

    See you are a bunch of paranoid pussies. Not once did I attack the 2nd Amendment, not once. I do not agree with arming students and teacher at universities and colleges. You hear what you want to hear and that is everyone is out to get you and guns. Honestly I would be afraid to be in a room with you seen2much and Phil E. Drifter and you JustinB you all need your guns for other reasons besides self defense.

  • Anonymous

    who asked you to get into anything?

  • Anonymous

    Judging from the high rate of poverty among children, the huge population of those with no health insurance even among workers because of its unaffordability in light of the low-wage effects of its being a nonsensical “right-to-work State” and the lousy public school system in the place, it’s best that most of us “stay the hell out of Texas” unless career requirements unfortunately require residency there.

    Not to be ignored are the rightwinger political crackpots running about on the Senate and especially the House floors who perfectly reflect the mental states of their constituents who burden the Country with them.

  • Anonymous

    QUIZ TIME………………….?HOW MANY MORE AMENDMENTS DO YOU DEFEND?

    AND IF SO, NAME THEM AND WHAT EACH IS ABOUT……….AND HOW THE 4th COULD THROW

    THE BUSH AND DICK IN JAIL……….

  • Anonymous

    Sounds like you are ready to just get on your knees and “take it like a man”. I am not saying “reload and take aim” I’m saying if it’s cold outside you wear a coat. If it’s mean outside make sure you are properly protected.

  • Anonymous

    Oh, great! Now instead of getting into a fist fight in the parking lot because of a fender bender, we pull guns and shoot each other. Instead of yelling insults because of a religious disagreement (Mormon vs. fundamentalist, e.g.), we pull guns and shoot each other. And I can’t wait to see what happens at the frat house parties. Maybe that’s one way of eliminating the Greeks from campus.

  • Anonymous

    No you are saying that you will not retreat, so if someone tries to jack your car you will shoot them, if someone trespasses on your property you will shoot them, if someone insults your family you may have to shoot them. You will not retreat as if you are in a constant state of war. Perhaps your father should have been properly protected and wore a condom. The more you defend your right to carry a weapon the more frightening you sound.

  • Guest

    Good! gun free zones are dangerous, the less of them we have the safer we will be.

  • Anonymous

    You didn’t answer his question.

  • Anonymous

    ethananaim: One of the dangers of today’s world is getting locked into a position that lessens the ability to communicate.
    some background: I will be 91 in July. WWII left it’s imprint on me, but did not define me. Arthritis tends to make an old man testy and opinionated. I have to keep telling myself to lighten up.

    I had started a response going into detail so you could see where i was coming from….and because of the crooked fingers it got lost in cyberspace…which may be all to the good.

    The Reader’s Digest version would be: In different circumstances {distance divides this} we probably could have struck up friendship..I have several friends who I disagree with and they me.

    THe last sentence in your response puzzled me…about the freedom of speech comment. kept to limited “areas”.
    But this is not the place to discuss this and bore hell out of other voices.

    The most important thing in my life have been the literally tens of thousands of humans of all colors, nations,,the world over, who have been placed in my path, or I ,theirs. Which is to say I love the differences and and all they teach me.

    One thing i found in life was that I learned more by listening than by talking. So I’d rather listen to you than to talk to you.
    That is not possible here. I will watch for your comments. And become wiser. Thanks.

  • Anonymous

    You had any doubt?

  • Anonymous

    Anybody who has to carry a gun to feel safe is a BIG pussy.

  • Anonymous

    another quiz…………… what would kill more people with guns?

    a. booze, pot, guns…. 18-22 year olds or

    b. one crazy every 5 years

  • Anonymous

    People who don’t pay attention end up as casualties, and you’re not paying attention.

  • Anonymous

    You won’t die? Good luck with that. You will probably shoot yourself.

  • Anonymous

    Society will be better off when you do.

  • Anonymous

    The majority of cases are idiots who shoot either themselves or someone close to them, rather than a perpetrator.

  • Guest

    Yeah, that was a bit different….but nice try!

  • Guest

    That doesn’t even make sense!

  • Guest

    What does that even mean? Could you elaborate a bit?

  • Guest

    How is it not comparable? Concealed carry is legal in 37+ states…you don’t even need a license to carry in Alaska and Vermont. They aren’t going insane and shooting each other over little things, why would you think college kids would? You need to admit to yourself that YOU are not the smartest, most responsible person in the country….there are literally millions of people that are just as good as you and they want to carry on campus. Dont forget about all the veterans in school right now either, you saying that they wouldn’t know how to handle that kind of responsibility?

  • Guest

    “will increase the odds that an innocent bystander will get shot!”

    Is that a fact or your opinion? I bet you’ve never even read up on the subject of defensive gun use. You should give it a try, you might learn something.

  • http://www.rawstory.com/ Stumptownhero

    Please provide the source of the 800K claim

  • http://www.rawstory.com/ Stumptownhero

    Uh dude the story is about letting gun onto a COLLEGE campus!

  • Guest

    And how many kids are over in AfghanIraqiPackistan right now under the age of 24, packing fully automatic weapons, protecting your freedoms right now??! I find your argument to be sophomoric, insulting, and ridiculous. And what does your reference “boyz” mean? I hope you aren’t referring to a certain minority.

  • http://www.rawstory.com/ Stumptownhero

    The FBI crime stats on murder do not support your percentage.

  • Guest

    Why don’t you actually learn about the subject before you go ahead and make idiotic statements.

    http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp
    http://www.johnlott.org/

  • http://www.rawstory.com/ Stumptownhero

    My position is that Hollywood and the male ego has overtaken the FACTS and commonsense when it comes to deterring crime.

    The LAST thing I want to do is have my daughter on a school campus where the little dick, testosterone poisoned or PTSD boyz are packing heat. Nearly every cop will tell you that it takes MONTHLY training to be effective with a weapon therefore unless you want to mandate that level of training the result will be predictable.

    The socio demographic of a Utah College campus is VERY VERY different that the ones in Texas, I think you know what I mean. As for Alaska the ability to pack heat has not resulted in a safer society.

    Do you know if in either Alaska or Vermont if they allow guns on campus?

  • Guest

    Not only is your statement completely false, but the way you think about people carrying concealed is pulled straight out of “The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly” which is equally moronic. Everyday you walk past someone carrying and don’t even know it. I live in Wayne county, Mi. and we have over 20000 licensed CPL holders here! Your around this everyday, do you see any shoot outs? You really should get to know at least one CPL holder before you trash talk the entire group.

  • Guest

    Damn that’s the dumbest thing I’ve read all day. The police?! really? I’m not even gonna start on that subject.
    “And other than in your delusional world people walking around with concealed handguns do not stop crime from occurring. ”
    Actually there are at least two scholars that disagree with you. Not like your interested in “facts” though.
    http://www.johnlott.org/
    http://www.criminology.fsu.edu/p/faculty-gary-kleck.php

    If you can read books without pictures you should pick up a book written by John Lott, its called “More guns, less crime”

  • Anonymous

    I wonder why they didn’t include the state legislative chambers and the governor’s office and major corporations along with the universities.

  • Guest

    Your imagination is no substitute for reality. And the reality of the situation is much more tame than your wild imagination. You should read up on the subject and then come back to the table, you might be surprised by what you learn when you read a book.

  • http://www.rawstory.com/ Stumptownhero

    Get a sense of humor DEAD. The kid’s overseas packing heat get DAILY training and they still make mistakes. These “mistakes rarely get covered because the “right” knows that TV coverage helped STOP the Vietnam War!

  • Guest

    And what does that have to do with CPL holders carrying on campus? nothing. Can you find an example of a licensed CPL holder going on a killing spree?

  • Guest

    Where the fuck do you live? It must be pretty sane, huh? Leave Texas alone, you don’t live there, you don’t know what the people who live there want and you should respect whatever choice they make. Its not up to you and no one care what you think.

  • Guest

    So it works then?

  • http://www.rawstory.com/ Stumptownhero

    If you want to “learn” about the facts here are a few of the more credible studies:

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/injuries.html

    http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/ficap/resourcebook/pdf/monograph.pdf

  • Guest

    Talk about ignorant and immoral! Your saying that the entire population of Texas is racist and afraid of minorities?! And that fear is why they are voting on allowing CPL holders to carry on campus?! And not only that……

    “I’m hoping every shoot out will lower the republican population and we can be rid of them!”

    You want to get rid of an entire group or class of people!

    All you need now is a big black pair of boots and some brown shirts to do your bidding.

  • http://twitter.com/puppy_cat Julie B.

    Gdammit, I come to Raw Story for *real* news reported accurately – the site seems a little off kilter. Texas is *NOT* passing any bill that allows guns on school campuses, although one has been proposed after the recent shooting incident at UT-Austin, where only the shooter actually died. Your front page blurb says “Texas to allow guns on school campuses” which is just as misleading as anything on a corporate-owned news website. If you want legitimate respect as an alternative news website, be *impeccable* with your words.

  • http://www.rawstory.com/ Stumptownhero

    Actually I researched the subject for a paper in college which included extensive study of written material and interviews with local and federal law enforcement. I know for example that the best home defense weapon is a short barrel shot gun because in times of stress we are all lousy shots. I recently worked with an Afghan vet and he told me a story about a fire fight he had in an Afghani house with two hostels. Suffice it to say nearly 100 rounds were fired and NOBODY was hit despite all three being within 15 feet of each other!

    I also know it is many times more effective and SAFER to turn on the lights and shout that you called police than to confront a criminal. If the criminal is armed you may end up in a shoot out and hand gun bullets go through walls which put the rest of your family at risk!

    That research and subsequent conversations over the years with friends in law enforcement confirm another seldom considered fact. Many people who have firearms for protection naturally hesitate before shooting another human whereas the armed criminal does not tend to have that hesitation therefore the crook gets off the first shot or disarms the homeowner/citizen. Hence the FBI statistic on the likelihood that the gun purchased for “protection” ends up being used on the homeowner or citizen.

    Lastly, as for the probability of bystander injury: Its a rather simple formula; more guns in the hands of UNTRAINED young men lead to misidentified targets and failure to clear the background. If you doubt that claim find a local live fire obstacle course and see how you do knowing that the targets are not shooting back and then factor your results for return fire!

  • Guest

    So you would have no problem fending off a 6 foot 5, 300 lbs. home invader? Yeah, right. What about older women like grandmothers? What about disabled people? what about trans gender people? We ALL have the RIGHT to protect our lives. A gun is the best tool for that job. Just because you have an irrational fear of the “wild West” returning doesn’t mean that we RESPONSIBLE CPL holders should have to dis arm for you and your idiotic imagination and scenarios. We are all around you everyday, packing heat, doing the daily grind, just like you. You ignorance of the subject makes me wonder why you even bother to comment. Do me a favor, go to the statepolice website for whatever state you live in, now go to the section dedicated to CPL, somewhere on that page you can find the number of registered CPL holders in your state and also the number per county. I live in Wayne county, MI. We have over 20,000 just in this county!

  • Guest

    So a veteran, having served one tour of duty in iraqistan doesn’t even have enough “training” Come off your high horse stumptown, your not my hero anymore, your just starting to disgust me. I mean these guys are out there fighting off Taliban with machine guns, rockets, grenades, etc. For you to say that they don’t have the training is just ridiculous! and insulting!!

  • Anonymous

    As much as I loved attending UT (Go Longhorns!), and love Austin (arguably one of the best cities in America), I can truly say that there are plenty of pussies in Texas. They are the people who are so fearful of homosexuals and the scary terrorists. Hell, those of us who were most directly affected by 9/11 (Those of us who lived in New England. Hell, one of the pilots killed was from 2 towns over, my daughters classmates father was on one of the planes) are not as afraid of the terrorists as the Texas pussies are.

  • http://www.rawstory.com/ Stumptownhero

    While the “access to guns” argument may have validity in countries with a modestly armed military the logic that the REASONABLE restrictions on lawful weapon ownership in the US of A could change the outcome of an American revolution is laughable.

    If our military convinced the troops to turn their weapons on “armed citizens” I don’t care how many AR 15′s we had the results would be swift and one sided. Our best defense to maintain our democracy is being demonstrated in Madison Wisconsin and NOBODY is parading around with guns…at least that we can see!

  • Anonymous

    Get a grip! I was being facetious! Even though I think the upper crust of texas are immoral and I blame texas for giving us bush and rick perry! I guess I need to be more careful and explain things better!

  • Guest

    Yeah no shit, we as CPL holders are mandated by the state to take a training course before we can “carry” In that course they tell you what happens when you shoot the wrong person, what happens if someone steals your pistol, etc. My instructor was a POLICE OFFICER and he told us that he thought everyone should have a CPL.

    Perfect accuracy?!! I’m not shooting at someone 100 yards away!! When using a pistol defensively the average distance is about 10-15 feet away, I may not have “PERFECT” accuracy, but I can easily put 10 rounds, center mass at that distance. And your also assuming that there will be bystanders….you might be all alone when something bad happens, ever think of that?

    Thanks for letting us know what REALITY is, or your twisted version of it anyways.

  • tbl92666

    Reading all the pro-gun posts here, yesterday, I got mad. I guess it is the usual smugness of the posters — the might makes right mentality. They may not all have tiny penises, but their mindset certainly comes from a psychology of inadequacy.

    Today, I find that sad. It is sad to me that there are people walking around that are so scared of life that they feel the need to carry a gun, just to walk around in public.

    Sad, or not; your need to placate your neurosis ends at the border of my right to walk the streets without the company of a bunch of gun-toting neurotics.

    If you want to fill your house with guns to feel safe, knock yourself out. That is your right. I don’t want you to bring them around me, or mine. That is my right.

  • Anonymous

    So the constitution frightens you!!?!?!?!?

  • Anonymous

    Oh come on… You are not the Constitution and I hate to break it to ya but the 2nd Amendment is NOT entire Constitution.

  • Anonymous

    Well definitely do not send your sons and daughters to ANY Texas college, university or junior college.

    I would never advise my graduate students to take jobs there.

    We have enough Jared Loughners as it is.

  • Anonymous

    So if you are a student and meet with a teacher about a low grade, are they more apt to change that grade if you show up strapped? Maybe the credit card companies will offer a complimentary gun for filling out an application.

    It will be interesting to see if this causes a change in overall out of state college attendance in TX. i know I wouldn’t want my kids going there.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_YHUR5LALBGRBDQ5VAKAL3JDKNU JustinB

    Look if you are challenging my knowlege of ALL the amendments, then you are correct I am not familiar with every amendment, but what is your point? Trying to deflate my arguments because amendments were added after the founding fathers? I get your point if that is it but regardless of what you are screaming about.

    Oki, I couldn’t agree with you more. And stop assuming I am Republican because I defend my right to choose to be armed or not. Just because I don’t conform to every liberal view, doesn’t mean we don’t share common interests/views.

    Bush and Cheney should be in jail. Unfortunately if I believe that, then Obama has to go to. Why? For continuing the Patriot Act. I OVERWHELMINGLY DISAGREE WITH THE PATRIOT ACT! It was brought on by fear. Most of us in this country are sheep.

  • Jaimie11

    As a woman I retain my right to self-defense against ignorant sexist sexually disturbed violent assholes like you, by owning a gun and knowing how to use it. Don’t like it that I can take care of myself. Tough.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_YHUR5LALBGRBDQ5VAKAL3JDKNU JustinB

    Mikethedog, I don’t know if I agree with that. Your focus has not been on college kids carrying guns, in fact i’ve barely heard anything about the subject. Seems all you care about is an attempt to insult those who do not agree with you. You did sit here and criticize everyone that believes in the 2nd amendment. And indirectly criticized it yourself.

    “Oh shut up Sarah, I mean Glen or is it Rush? Who’s we? You and your gun? ” – Quite childish don’t you think? An attempt to belittle me because of my view. You are attempting to oppress anyone that does not agree with you. You have not been clear, you’ve been immature at best.

    “but then if you have a gun and I don’t I’ll bet that would make you right. ” – Another 1 of your baseless assumptions

    “You know there were lessons learned from the Wild West and that is that everyone carrying a gun was chaos.” – And again what were the lessons you learned from Will Smith and The Wicky Wild Wild West!?!

    “See you are a bunch of paranoid pussies.” – Validating my point again…

    “Well stop poverty first, then drug, alcohol and domestic abuse. Carrying a gun will not solve anything” – What drugs are you on? How this has anything to do with our debate, I don’t know… Maybe a little clarity on this? Almost sounds like a Repub talking head on CNN, answering a direct question with something completely off subject, successfully dodging a question with limited airtime. I have all day, please go on.

    “Ok Sarah get your gun Palin “don’t retreat reload” – C’mon man, this has been your response multiple times and it’s kind of lame, again how old are you?

    “No you are saying that you will not retreat, so if someone tries to jack your car you will shoot them, if someone trespasses on your property you will shoot them, if someone insults your family you may have to shoot them. You will not retreat as if you are in a constant state of war. Perhaps your father should have been properly protected and wore a condom. The more you defend your right to carry a weapon the more frightening you sound. ” – This sounds exactly like an attack on the 2nd amendment. I see no mention of college here….

    HERE’S MY FAVORITE QUOTE BY YOU, YOU MANIAC:

    “I can’t wait for the shoot out… College students binge drinking, packing heat… College students disagreeing with a grade or point of view of their professors… Unrequited love… Up too long cramming for finals with help of methamphetamines… The list of possibilities is endless of how this could go so very wrong.”

    HERE IS MY RESPONSE:

    “”I can’t wait for the shoot out…”

    You disgust me! How can you say this? You want people to die and suffer injury just so you can say, “I told you so.”

    You criticized me earlier, saying that I my only purpose was to be “right” sounds to me more like a self description. I would rather be wrong then see anyone get injured or killed.

    How old are you? ” – Be careful what you say, the Tuscon shooting wasn’t that long ago, if you didn’t follow up with that one I would have reported your ass to the FBI! Zero tolerance for this kind of bullshit, be a little more responsible about your comments. Hurting others is no joke.

    And to answer your comment, you struck a cord yes. Your responses fascinate me. The hole you are digging keeps getting bigger and bigger. You have contradicted yourself a few times and the further into the hole you go, the more entertaining it gets for me. Thank you!

  • Anonymous

    …counting the days are you? I’m sure you’ve thought up every reason where a possible disaster might occur. It’s called life, but nobody I know would answer a problem by shooting somebody else. That would place them in the deranged category. As for everyone else you seem to assume that no one can be trusted or maybe their too stupid to handle that responsibility and freedom…and in that case who do you think should be in charge of determining those rights for us?

  • Anonymous

    Then you are easily entertained. Your need to be right and to have the last word is certainly remarkable. Stringing comments together from different posts to and from different people when one has nothing to do with other is more of you obsessed stalking behavior. Get over it any intelligent person knows that I do not advocate violence so stop twisting words to make your point which is you are right and anyone who disagrees with you is wrong.

  • Guest

    Bullshit, where is your source?!

  • Guest

    The US does NOT have the most gun deaths!!!! You should at least do a quick google search before you open your opinionated mouth. Here is a link for you to check out, please do so.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

  • Anonymous

    It was sarcasm and you don’t seem to have read the entire post and want to pick out only that which you can argue with. “College students binge drinking, packing heat… College students disagreeing with a grade or point of view of their professors… Unrequited love… Up too long cramming for finals with the help of methamphetamines… The list of possibilities is endless of how this could go so very wrong.” Can you see my original point?

  • Guest

    What a naive statement.

  • Anonymous

    Sarcasm.

  • Guest

    Because people like you freak out over the “what ifs” and ignore all data on the reality of the subject. Two states in the union do NOT require a permit (Alaska & Vermont) Tell me, how are the crime stats in those states?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_YHUR5LALBGRBDQ5VAKAL3JDKNU JustinB

    I’ve been trying to have a debate with you on the subject, asked you many questions but you keep dodging them. I don’t care if I’m right, I’m trying to have a civilized debate but you have resorted to name calling and childish behavior, it’s been a full time job correcting your assumptions and pointing out the obvious weaknesses in your off subject debate. You cannot stay focused and it seems that your ego is all you defend not your view. Look at your comments, you are on the defense the whole time. There has yet to be a debate because you can’t buckle down long enough to carry one through.

    “Get over it any intelligent person knows that I do not advocate violence so stop twisting” Nobody here knows you personally, your words are all we have to go by. I am a very intelligent person, I didn’t twist anything as I quoted you word for word. This is my perception of you and that is my reality. It is your fault for allowing me to perceive you that way. I’d agree with you if you said I was being dramatic, but you didn’t.

    Those quotes were very easily done, no more than 2 minutes time. I am quoting you to show you why I perceive you the way I do. I’m backing it up with substance, very different from the ASSUMPTIONS you have thrown up all over this article.

    You seem like a shill. For God knows what, I do not know. I’ve encountered many shills, been successful in getting a few banned in my day, and you sound just like one.

  • Guest

    IF they abuse the responsibility they will be punished. its that simple. Remember “innocent until proven guilty”??? These people haven’t committed a crime and yet you talk about them like they are drunken murderers! Not everyone is like you when you were in college!

  • RottenJohnny

    Wow, now I’m violent, sexually disturbed, ignorant, sexist, and an asshole. A woman scorned is a strange beast indeed. God bless Texas; someone has to. Don’t point that gun at your money maker. Wouldn’t want them cowboys to have any trouble finding that thingy, huh.

  • Guest

    You should go too, just for being such an elitist asshat.

  • Guest

    I stand corrected. However, please look at the countries with more deaths. I am not proud to be in such company, nor am I particularly proud of the fact that we’re eighth. Are you?

  • Guest

    Yeah, and right after that it says “the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. ”
    How do you not understand this?

  • Wyrdless

    Maniacs aren’t going to follow a gun ban no matter what the ‘law’ says.

    also,they legalized having a gun rack for hunting rifles in your car on campus.

  • Anonymous

    Oh my, are you a budding young college student who can’t wait to strap on your gun and go to school?

  • Guest

    I read the entire sentence not just the last part. You (and the NRA) want to read only the last part.

    We disagree on a very fundamental level, so there is no need for further discussion. I will not change your mind and you will not change mine.

  • Guest

    Randomly shooting people is illegal.

  • Guest

    Its not a militia, its a reserve force for the army. Hence the term “reserves” A militia does not leave its country’s soil, ever.

  • Anonymous

    And you compromise yourself with your own statement…

    “Unless career requirements unfortunately require residency there.”

    You know why that happens so often? BECAUSE WE HAVE JOBS HERE!!!! Unlike the rest of you union morons.

    Now don’t get me wrong, no place is perfect. But in matters of self-defense and jobs, we Texans have it mostly right. Honestly, a bit too “churchy” around here, but we’re working on that..

    You can’t argue with the math, our unemployment is higher than we would like, but nowhere near the levels of the unionized areas. In this economy, which by the way is about to get seriously worse, unemployment levels and other issues will soon prove important to the self-defense debate.

    One thing about Texans, we are quick to call BS on something stupid and put a quick end to the stupidity.. That’s why we sent the unions packing long ago. We are now in the process of noticing the stupidity of the GOP. I suspect that Texas will be one of the first states to drop BOTH standard political parties when this economic tsunami slams over us all… I’m sure you people in other places will make adjustments as you see fit for your ideology.

    The standard right/left political argument has been left gasping for air in the desert of the real. Nothing can be done now to bring back the waters of fantasy that sustained us to this point. The fantasy was nothing more than debt, and it is now time to pay what we cannot pay.

    Hope you are ready for a long, hot summer… We Texans can stand the heat just fine.

  • Guest

    Brandishing a gun is already illegal….CPL or not.

  • Guest

    that is a concern. And guess what? it IS illegal to drink while carrying concealed, feel better now? We already have laws for that.

  • Anonymous

    Sure…. Because everyone is a law abiding citizen.

  • Guest

    What IS the point then? That you guys have trust issues? Or that you guys are elitist snobs who think the rest of the country is full of astonishingly stupid people who are just waiting to kill you and themselves with their gun cause they are so dumb they couldn’t possibly understand the responsibility that goes along with one.

  • Anonymous

    You obviously have a problem with reality.. If people understand that most of the people around them are probably armed, the chance of violence erupting is actually REDUCED.. Would you go around yelling and flipping off people if you understood that death was a likely outcome? Would you shoot somebody for the same behavior if you were armed, or would you watch them, quietly amused so long as they made no aggressive movement to you?

    Armed people are peaceful people. The truth is I really don’t want to shoot anybody. Unless it is to defend my life, the lives of my loved ones, or my property, I would refuse to use force of ANY sort. This is how 99.9% of people feel. That .1% is not an issue as long as a reasonable amount of the other 99.9% have the means to keep them in check. All that rudeness, all that “snookie stupid” you see everywhere, well, we can dry all that up with an armed society.

  • Guest

    Yeah, how about North Korea. They have really fast internet and a totalitarian dictatorship, YOU would love it!

  • Guest

    I would love to live there. The “live free or die” state! Hows the free state project going?

  • Guest

    Thats probably because you don’t need a license to carry a firearm there. “An armed society is a polite society”

  • Guest

    whatever, you have a source for your “information”??

  • Guest

    Like what?? Tell us.

  • Guest

    at LEAST 800,000 people need to defend themselves per year in America.

    http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp

  • Guest

    I’m happy carrying a handgun.

  • Guest

    You do not know what your talking about.

    http://www.panda.com/canadaguns/

    Educate yourself

  • Guest

    Wow, keep taking your meds, the voices will go away! Glad you don’t have a gun, you are obviously delusional.

  • Guest

    “Those who would trade in their freedom for their protection deserve neither”

  • Guest

    Lol, damn that’s a weak retort.

  • Guest

    Why would you want to fuck up your education like that?

  • Guest

    your forgetting about human nature. I know that you are inherently evil, but most people are inherently good.

  • Guest

    Never mind that idiot, you know whats right. And I agree with you.

  • Guest

    We dig freedom, unlike you.

  • Guest

    You sound like am idealistic ass whose never been out of his comfort zone or house. Come on over to Detroit, I’ll show you why people need guns to defend themselves.

    P.S. Palin is a twit, we don’t like her either!

  • Guest

    For a dog your pretty smart, good thing your not human cause you’d be the dumbest one around.

  • Jaimie11

    Thanks AD, I know you agree – you’ve already died so you’ve got the skinny on reality.

  • Anonymous

    And paranoid gun lovers are weird.

  • Guest

    Whats wrong with Libertarianism and homeschooling?

  • Guest

    c. The armed forces

  • Anonymous

    You’re a little late to the game pal… I have already been stalked by others like you, insecure people trying to convince others the boogie man is going to get them if they don’t have a gun. I say if you think you need a gun to protect yourself join law enforcement or move to a safer area. You’re not free if you are afraid of your own shadow.

  • Guest

    I did, sorry, that was out of line.

  • Guest

    you got a source for that claim?

  • Jaimie11

    Your centralized government controlled schools graduate idiots from high school who take remedial English for two years in college and then graduate college with NO critical thinking skills whatsoever.

    And to think, only 50 years ago high school students studied advanced trigonometry while taking greek, latin, and french or spanish. The Federal influence in public school education is screamingly obvious.

    Here, think on this, you’re supporting it so you may as well memorize it.

    “To make a contented slave, it is necessary to make a thoughtless one (and) to annihilate the power of reason. He must be able to detect no inconsistencies in slavery, he must be made to feel that slavery is right.”

    — Frederick Douglass, My Bondage and My Freedom [1855]

  • Anonymous

    Obviously the free state project is not going very well for the Irish corporatist thugs…

    Take it down from the mast Irish traitors
    It’s the flag we Republicans claim
    It can never belong to Free Staters
    For you’ve brought on it nothing but shame.

  • Anonymous

    Yeah that it was it…you misspoke!

  • Anonymous

    No, but maybe you would prefer we ban cars. You must be terrified of automobiles as they kill a far greater number of people in this country than guns.

  • Monkei

    You suckers are never happy with what you got, it is why you carry 30 clip magazines now … 8 and 12 was too few.

  • Guest

    most people are.

  • Guest

    Agreed.

  • Guest

    Nope, I am not proud of that. Thanks for checking the link out though!

  • Anonymous

    If most people are law abiding then why do you need a gun? If you are certain that kids don’t drink and drive (wink, wink,) then of course they would never brandish a gun while drinking or high as a kite. The inability for people to see the potential for tragedy here is astounding.

  • Guest

    “Britain, Australia top U.S.
    in violent crime
    Rates Down Under increase despite strict gun-control measures”

    http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=8340
    http://www.pinkpistols.org/
    http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html

    You might want to read some of these.

  • Guest

    Yeah, whatever.

  • Guest

    http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp#crime

    * Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18]

  • Guest

    When I took my CPL class we had about 7 women (from 21-80? years old) and about 5 really old guys (80+) These people your talking about aren’t out there roaming the street looking for trouble. You should take a CPL class, you might be surprised at the kind of people you meet.

  • Guest

    http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp#crime

    Ok the first link is to an article from a TV show?! That did an episode on gun control. And its from 1997? Not very credible, no peer review etc.
    I’ll take a look at the other on and get back to you.

    thanks for the links BTW.

  • http://twitter.com/UndeadPatriot Nick Junior

    Wow. I need to transfer to a Texas university now.

    Everyone is entitled to his or her opinions. Mine- If the bad guys can carry guns to school, why can’t the good guys do the same? CCW holders are far more law abiding than the general population. Everyone I know with a permit trains regularly with their firearms. These are the people that you anti gun people will seek for assistance when the bad guys with guns come shooting while your waiting 10 minutes for the police to respond. BTW, police aren’t here to protect an individual. Grow some balls and protect yourself like you’re supposed to. When I carry, I won’t worry about who you anti gun folks in a shootout. After the bad guys are down, I will find you and say “I told you so”…

  • Anonymous

    No I didn’t misspeak. I said what I said on purpose. I was being a facetious! Sheesh

  • Guest

    But they DO have proper training to carry when on campus, do they not?!

  • Guest

    well its good to know at least one person actually studied up. Sorry for the accusation. I love living damn it!! I just want EVERYONE (except for felons and crazies) to have a fighting chance!

  • Guest

    Look man, I’ve been carrying for over three years now, and I do train monthly sometimes 2-4 times a month , in fact I love going to the range, learning new drills etc. I’m one of those “people are inherently good” types and I think that you are not giving the youth of this nation the credit that most of them deserve. We are not talking about 12 year olds here. And once you strap on a gun and hide it under your shirt and start going out into the world you realize what kind of responsibility you have chosen to undertake. As a CPL holder I am expected to behave in a more responsible way, and if I don’t, I get punished that much more. Everyone who takes a CPL class knows this. I dont think the kids on campus who would like to carry are the same ones that your thinking of. The burn outs, druggies and hard core party “boyz” dont give a shit about anything other than just getting by, I dont see those guys spending an extra day in class and 250 dollars to get a CPL. Plus you admitted that you are the father of a daughter, could it be that you are a bit over protective? My mom was horrified the first time I showed her my CPL, three years later she could care less because she knows that I’m a stand up guy. I dont know man, its a tough subject I can see where your coming from though I do not agree.

  • Guest

    I cant move, my whole life is here! I’ll say it again; Why dont you come on over to Detroit and I’ll show you why people need guns defensively.

  • Guest

    “you carry 30 clip magazines now”

    No, I carry a 13 round magazine. Thats good enough for me.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_YHUR5LALBGRBDQ5VAKAL3JDKNU JustinB

    Lol, you crack me up!

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_YHUR5LALBGRBDQ5VAKAL3JDKNU JustinB

    You were obviously late to every single day of school…

    Nobody is stalking you. I have a theory about you… You love the attention. You have made yourself a target. Unless you are insane, no educated person could honestly go on and on about utter candy land bullshit.

    The only person stalking and the only person obsessed with being right is you. You even said so below:

    “I can’t wait for the shoot out… College students binge drinking, packing heat… College students disagreeing with a grade or point of view of their professors… Unrequited love… Up too long cramming for finals with help of methamphetamines… The list of possibilities is endless of how this could go so very wrong.”

    You said in your own words that you can’t wait for the shootout! And for what? To prove your point? To say I told you so? You are pathetic Mike and really need to take a look at yourself and think more before you open your big mouth. I have nothing against homosexuals but lets be honest, you like men huh?

  • Anonymous

    You might want to read the articles you select for me to read before you post them. Since the article was based on Britain’s numbers, I read the Daily Mail article you referred to on your list. Here was what it said about half way down:

    “But criminologists say crime figures can be affected by many factors, including different criminal justice systems and differences in how crime is reported and measured.

    “In Britain, an affray is considered a violent crime, while in other countries it will only be logged if a person is physically injured.”

    I didn’t know what an affray was, but I had a suspicion of what it might be, I suspect you don’t know what the word means either. It isn’t in my Mac Dictionary so I suspected it was a British term. It is, it means “noisy argument.” So the Brits have a highly inflated violent crime statistic because a “noisy argument” is a violent crime, further they have a pretty damn sophisticated camera surveillance system that covers most populated areas, so any “noisy argument” on a public street is seen and reported at a “violent crime.” Our society should be so civilized that “noisy arguments” were violent crimes.

    More importantly in a huge visual it says that Britain has 1.49 homicides (this includes from all weapons, including stranglings not just guns) per hundred thousand residents, the United States with it hundreds of millions of guns averages somewhere in excess of 15 or more homicides per hundred thousand residents, or more than ten times as many.

    Further you claim that “Australia top[s] the US in violent crime” as well. Here’s the actual UN figures based on what the reporting countries consider violent, which obviously varies as the aforementioned except shows:

    “The U.S. has a violence rate of 466 crimes per 100,000 residents, Canada 935, Australia 92 and South Africa 1,609.”

    Under what new math matrix does a rate of 92 per hundred thousand residents “top” 466 per hundred thousand residents?

    I would also suggest that the high number here for Canada is inflated for reasons similar to what I articulated for Great Britain. But I don’t feel like pursuing that!

    I really can’t believe you people; why do you insist on making fools out of yourselves? I don’t even have to go to another source to refute your false claims, all I ever have to do is just quote from the stories you ourselves use to “prove” your points–start reading the stories before you post them, you ought to know by now that I am going to read them, then you won’t be so easy to refute.

    Both quotations I used here came from:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html#ixzz1EjRIatii

  • Anonymous

    Yeah, guns on college campuses worked out really well at Virginia Tech. Hey Good Hair and Republican dicks in Texas legislature-how the fuck is guns on college campuses a priority when 100,000 teachers and school support personnel are expected to be laid off? Will this produce one job for anyone? Never thought I’d look at Arkansas with admiration.

  • Anonymous

    Isn’t every case a “bit different”! Every one is a random act perpetrated by a psycho with an especially individual anti-social malady that makes each particular incident completely irrelevant when trying to put the facts together for a coherent picture of the culture of violence in America.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_YHUR5LALBGRBDQ5VAKAL3JDKNU JustinB

    Well I tend to have more faith in our people and in a case where the Government ordered our troops to take aim at citizens / armed citizens, you’d most likely see more soldiers disbanding and joining the citizens then you are seeing now in Libya. I know a lot of soldiers and I don’t know 1 that would shoot an American citizen protesting.

    When it does come to protest I never once said a gun was necessary. The most effective protest is a peaceful one. I even referred to the people of Egypt above as a reference to the effectiveness of a peacefull protest. The need for a gun arises from an example presented today. Look at Kadhafi, he has ordered militias and mercenaries to kick in the doors of anyone against his regime and murder them. This happened today… This is a circumstance I think you would be better off armed, not defenseless. But that is just me, if you think you are like Macguyver and could pull it off, more power to you.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_YHUR5LALBGRBDQ5VAKAL3JDKNU JustinB

    I couldn’t agree with you more. And Stumpy I agree too, a shotgun is the best choice.

    Dead: I love living too and I hate oppression. I love to see the good guys rise up and the bad guys fall.

    Stumpy: Is your concern a training issue? Because a lot of what I hear is that you are concerned with the experience of the defender arming themselves. I totally agree, I think training is absolutely necessary. It seems you support the 2nd amendment but don’t want students arming themselves. Sounds like we agree.

  • RottenJohnny

    Surprise, surprise . . . we agree on something. I was educated in private school for twelve years and learned comprehensive skills, including trig, calculus, Latin, physics and other tools, both useful and in some cases, quite useless. But my education was well rounded to say the least.Schools today teach to the test, thanks to NCLB, which is a joke on the education system, and schools today need to be brought into the twenty-first century. But that hardly has anything to do with guns on campus. If a society has degraded to the point it needs to arm its students and/or faculty , the problem goes way deeper than self-protection; it goes to the heart of how society as a whole is willing to turn on itself. And that does more to annihilate the power of reason than any one man with a gun could do. I’m afraid Frederick Douglass would be one pissed off dude if he were to be around today and see this happening.

  • Anonymous

    I have a lovely Springfield 40 but I do not need to take it to school. Now, the police can be completely confused on which one is the bad guy and shoot the wanna be ‘heros’. Stupid move.

  • RottenJohnny

    I assume then you’re talking about Bush when he talked to our children in public schools. I seem to remember something about “My Pet Goat,” and a day when we were attacked on our soil. Bottom line, bozo, if you’re going to denigrate one president for speaking to our kids, you should have the guts to go all the way and condemn all presidents who do it. Otherwise, you’re just another scumbag hypocrite, and the world’s filled with them. Grow a pair and support this country.

  • Jaimie11

    Giving up my Constitutional rights is not negotiable. I might add, if you are a happy citizen, you are comatose. Our government is rogue, won’t protect my rights or my freedom, demands I give my rights so it can protect my safety, and you are a happy citizen. You are a big part of the problem, happy.

  • Jaimie11

    I’ve never committed a crime, not with my gun, not without my gun. Only criminals commit crimes.

  • Jaimie11

    Not Minority Report denny – thought crimes – oh that is awful – to think I could be shot at dawn for having a thought the criminal government does not approve of. Ow!

  • Jaimie11

    Canadians have a queen. Monarchy is an archaic form of government.

    Look for yourself. Their Parliament needs Royal Assent before laws can be made. Gotta get queenie to approve.

    http://panda.com/canadaguns/

  • Jaimie11

    This is telling, eh? “Even if abolition had passed both Houses of Parliament and received Royal Assent”
    Their Parliament needs Royal Asssent (capitalized) for laws to be made.

    Thanks for the link AD.

  • Monkei

    so, walk me thru this … you have a gun, but you are surprised by someone from behind with a gun … how in the hell are you going to defend yourself in that scenario. You gun freaks think you will simply put you hand in your pocket and pull out a gun and shot the SOB before he caps your ass? Get serious, you gun freaks are simply idiots with guns and small penises.

  • http://twitter.com/UndeadPatriot Nick Junior

    “Yeah, guns on college campuses worked out really well at Virginia Tech.”

    What do you think would have happened if one of the students and instructors were legally carrying? I think it’s safe to say there wouldn’t have been 30 some people dead. The Korean maniac would have been put down before so many people were gunned down. Your logic isn’t pure madness in this case. Nothing stops the criminals from carrying. Only the law prevents people who may be in a position to help from carrying. WTF is up with some of you people? 2+2=4

  • Anonymous

    So you think instilling fear in people where everyone is carrying guns and too many people are afraid to so much as disagree with someone carrying a firearm is a GOOD thing?

  • Anonymous

    I am not talking about things like home invasion. That is a given that people would protect themselves on their private property.

    I am talking about a college, where thousands of young people converge and who could ALL end up packing heat.

    You talk about responsible CPL holders. What about IRRESPONSIBLE CPL holders? How are we to discern between the two? How many of those college kids can we honestly say are trustworthy enough to carry a gun? How many of them would not be careless? How many of them would have the emotional and mental capacity to earn the right to carry a gun?

    There are too many variables at work here. It’s bad enough when this happens with full grown adults. Do you REALLY want to tempt fate with kids?

  • Anonymous

    And even at that close a distance, things can happen. The fact remains you could easily do harm to another person. I am talking specifically about college campuses, because at the few instances where someone opened fire, there were LOTS of people around. They wanted to take down as many people with them as they could. They don’t care if they die, as long as they can kill. Can you HONESTLY say that you would be able, IF you were in range, be able to stop them WITHOUT hurting another person?

    THIS is the reality.

  • Anonymous

    They are called consequences. And those things should ALWAYS be considered before you even consider allowing such legislation to pass.

  • Anonymous

    So you’re saying that, everyone who carry’s a gun (excluding police) is trustworthy? That a person who doesn’t carry a gun should never be wary, that they should automatically ‘know’ if they see a person carrying a gun than they’re okay? I’m sorry, but unless you really know that person, how can you tell just by looking?

  • Anonymous

    Somehow, even if I provided solid information, you would deny it because it conflicts with your belief.

    Answer the question; what are the chances of someone strolling onto a college campus and start shooting people before they get taken down?

  • Anonymous

    I am talking about on a college campus when someone comes onto the grounds and starts shooting. What are the chances of that happening? If the answer is slim to none, then WHY pass such a resolution? And if it DID happen, would you realistically be able to do anything about it? Would anyone around that guy be able to do anything even if they were carrying a gun?

  • http://www.rawstory.com/ Stumptownhero

    The cops who I have talked with who have gone into war will tell you there is limited transferance of training. Find one and ask one to get their first hand perspective. .

  • http://www.rawstory.com/ Stumptownhero

    You are an army of one in a crazy, crazy world!

    OBTW when I say training I do not mean target practice but live fire obstacle course work where you are required to shoot on the move and determine friend or foe. If CC holders had this type of training even once every 12 months I would be more supportive of the idea.

    Until then encouraging more “average” people to pack heat only means the likelihood that a less than responsible person will go Dirty Harry and innocent by-standers are going to get shot and die!

  • http://www.rawstory.com/ Stumptownhero

    I read the study and still have a problem with the conclusions. Setting aside the age of the study and no subsequent studies to support it I find it hard to believe that 7% of all gun owners use their fire arms defensively EVERY year. I know many gun owners and in my 51 years on the planet 7% of them have not used their weapons for defense of life or property over total. I think the percentage of Cops who have to EVER draw their weapons is less than 30% so I have a problem with the ANNUAL percentage private gun owners being so high.

    I grew up in a rural area in Oregon, lived for 20 years in the big city and now reside in a semi rural area and cannot recall but one or two instances of a gun owner needing to brandish. Now I personally slept with a shot gun under my bed for a few months for fear of a sociopathic co-worker but I would not count that as using a weapon in a defensive manner. If situations like this counted I can see how the number could be achieved.

    Without seeing the questions and answers coupled with the geographic dispersal of those surveyed I’m very skeptical of this study’s results. Are there other more current studies that support this number?

  • http://www.rawstory.com/ Stumptownhero

    Except the gun crime stats show that the assault weapons ban DID decrease gun crime deaths nearly 10% annually.

  • Anonymous

    As a matter of fact I do like men… I’m a 43 year old woman. Justin if you had half a brain you’d be dangerous. Mike is my dog.

  • Anonymous

    I understand. My problem is with students and teachers and guns. I don’t want to infringe upon your rights. Stay safe.

  • http://voxmagi-necessarywords.blogspot.com/ VoxMagi

    The perpetual optimism that it takes to imagine hundreds of armed students actually diminishing the problem of campus violence would put even the most smiley faced acid drenched hippie to shame. If your problem is fire…gasoline won’t help. There are places that guns belong…and there are people who should have them…but classrooms and campuses aren’t the place…ever….and thats leaving aside that the morally defective personality MOST likely to brandish a weapon in public is also the person most likely to sign up for carrying one around as soon as its legit. Its all nice and cute to paint a rosy picture of gun ownership as hand in hand with somber responsible use and discrete behavior…but that shit only floats on TV and in advertising from the NRA…everywhere else it faceplants into the cruelty of reality as people behave like jackasses. I wish it wasn’t necessary for tragedy to unfold and illustrate this…but it looks like Texas won’t listen until their kids are dodging random fire on a monthly basis instead of once every year or two.

  • Anonymous

    One more time, I don’t want to outlaw guns one note Sally. I don’t think allowing students and teacher to carry guns on campus should become law or be encoraged. Jesus Crist your thick.

  • Guest

    ah, but when thinking about consequences you must always think of the positives/negatives of the action. I dont see you thinking about anything other than the negatives. This issue does in fact have many positives as well.

  • Guest

    are you forgetting the fact that, if /when some CPL holder decided that he/she was gonna pull out their pistol and use lethal force its a matter of life and death! Yes totally, I could hit someone at a distance of 10-15 feet without missing, I would bet my life on it.

    Oh, really…THIS is reality? Gee and here I was thinking I was trapped in a first person shooter.

  • Guest

    All you have to do to get a CPL in most states is be 21, have no felonies or drug/drunk driving charges, or domestic abuse charges. Now, just think about how many 21 year olds are out there in society everyday packing heat. What difference does it make weather they are next to you in line at the grocery store or in class on a college campus?

  • Anonymous

    In response to Colin Goddard’s “”People want to be the hero…” comment, I must point out that those who legally have licenses/permits to carry concealed and want to be able to carry in Texas college campuses ARE NOT seeking to be and DO NOT want to be heroes. They simply understand that they are responsible for their own, individual/personal safety first and foremost and of those with them (a side benefit really for those who don’t have a firearm), not the police (regular and campus though I have great respect for them–the good ones). Those concealed carry holders also understand that the police simply cannot rescue students and faculty on time during a Columbine High/Virginia Tech/Northern Illinois University type of shooting. At least CCHs would have a fighting chance at defending themselves against an armed perpetrator.

  • Anonymous

    Didn’t Virginia Tech cause even the gun loving Texan G.W. to restrict gun control laws??? Now Texas has decided the best way to stop gun violence on campus is to give guns to a bunch of frat kids who kick each others asses because someone stepped in front of them in line? Could it not be that the reason that gun violence on college campuses is low is because there are no guns, and that the reason that students were killed at VT was because a student got a hold of a gun?

    I think that every student in 3rd grade be given a little red button with a nuclear weapon attached to the other end, because only then will they truly be safe… from the… um… people trying to kidnap them? Why are Texans afraid of everyone again???

  • Anonymous

    …the armed perpetrator who was a CCH moments before he pulled it out and started shooting.

    So instead of making sure the perp doesn’t have a gun to begin with, we should just give guns to everyone? Isn’t that the same as saying, “well we know that these airbags have been exploding and killing people, but lets not ban them, we will just put them in everyones car to level the playing field. That will teach ‘em”.

  • Anonymous

    Answer this if you are homeschooled do you and your mom get a gun?

  • kiboshki

    South Korea: internet, no dictator
    North Korea: dictator, no internet

    There’s a difference.

  • Guest

    So why haven’t we seen any “dirty harry” type events unfold then? 37 states have shall issue policy’s, that’s MILLIONS of CPL holders walking around in public with concealed weapons. Your just plane wrong! The wild wild west epidemic you guys keep screaming about simply does not exist! Just admit it!

    800000 to 2.5 million “dirty harrys” use their guns defensively each year, I challenge you to find an instance in which a CPL holder wrongly killed and innocent bystander while trying to fend of a bad guy.

  • Guest

    BTW, how do you know what kind of training a CPL holder should have? We are not talking about hostage situations, or busting through a door and clearing a room full of bad guys. 99% of the time the situation is one on one.

  • Anonymous

    Here’s the URL to the COMMON ARGUMENTS section of the Students for Concealed Carry on Campus website:

    http://www.concealedcampus.org/common_arguments.php

    Go here, read all the arguments, and then click on each of them for each answer. They can address your concerns far better than I can.

    “Isn’t that the same as saying, “well we know that these airbags have been exploding and killing people, but lets not ban them, we will just put them in everyones car to level the playing field. That will teach ‘em”.”

    What are you getting at with this?

  • Anonymous

    Here’s another URL to check out:

    http://www.campuscarry.com/supporting-facts-arguments/

    It’s the “Facts & Arguments” section of the Campus Carry website (different from the Students for Concealed Carry on Campus website but nonetheless share the same goals).

  • Anonymous

    But do the positives REALLY outweigh the negatives? They want to allow people who aren’t even old enough to legally drink alcohol to carry firearms onto campus. One also has to consider that things like drug trafficking. It happens frequently on college and university grounds. You really want to run the increased risk of gun violence in that scenario?

  • Anonymous

    PROVE that ALL CPL holders a would NEVER pull their gun unless in a life or death situation. Certifications matter little if the person themselves is not mentally or emotionally suited to carry a gun.

    Would you bet someone else’s life on it?

    Yes this is reality, because it’s not always about you.

  • Anonymous

    What about Texas?

    Not much, I admit. But is it REALLY a good idea to have a bunch of CPL holders, all 21 and ALL carrying guns to be within as closed a space as a college? One also has to consider the community these colleges are in. If residents of said community don’t want guns in their area, the college will have to consider them before allowing such a thing.

  • http://www.rawstory.com/ Stumptownhero

    Justin says its about 30 a year

  • Anonymous

    You wouldn’t understand.

  • Anonymous

    We have laws against murder, yet murders continue to occur.

    Should we do away with laws against murder? You think you can make that go away with laws?

    Not my first engagement with NSRA talking points. Get new material.

  • Anonymous

    I’ve seen the footage, too and it does support my story.

    Also, I watched it live on television.

  • Anonymous

    Like Iraq and Somalia.

  • Anonymous

    Uh, no. Refer to the recent shootings in Arizona. You watch too many
    movies. You are not John McClane or Martin Riggs. That is your own tepid
    fantasy that will never happen. Guns are not the solution to a problem.
    Write that on the chalkboard a thousand times dickwad.

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