So these republicons are saying that if some scum shit kidnaps and rapes your 12 year old daughter, she has to carry the rape-baby to term and give birth to it or go to jail?

These republicons have passed the bat-shit crazy point of no return.

this is hardly surprsing, they care about life in utero, but after 9 months, you’re on your own, toots.

The abortion issue is just a trojan horse issue of the Conservatives. It’s an issue they use to get into power. In reality they could care less about life.

The story of Frankenstein by Mary Shelly was a symbolic story. The Monster is the Industrial Age, the Doctor the Conservatives. The Monster is cold like the cold of the dead, just like the Industrial Age. That cold could care less about life. To Conservatives life is nothing more than labor to be expolited for personal gain.

The plan for these children Conservatives claim to love is for the children to eat out of dumpsters. There is no difference between Conservatives and the Monster.

Don’t worry the vote will change once they learn more white woman are carrying black/latino babies. Remember how Storm Thurmond fought all his life to divide the races as he hide the fact he loved a black woman and she had their love child. Storm didn’t demand the woman get rid of the baby and he supported her all her life. But Storm kept it a secret until his death. How many other white men have black children? Check out the National rape list and you’ll see more whites and hispanics are catching up. The 78 GOP might want to stop home and fine out are any of their children having kids?

Except their own slutty children who get knocked up!

No wonder women has remarked, “men should have to bore babies”, and I always thought it was about overpopulation all this time. But, why am I not surprised, it’s your GOP Faith Base talking.

Why ANY woman in America would vote GOP is utterly beyond me. These people are as evil as any among us.

…or African Americans, or Mexican Americans, or Italian Americans, or Islamic-Americans, or Irish-Americans, or…or…OR ANYBODY-AMERICANS!!!

They don’t even care about human life at all and yet they give a shit about the lives of the unborn?? Puh-leeze!!! You really think they give a rat’s ass about the lives of the unborn? They just know how to rile Christians up into voting against their own best interests based on their ideologically hyper-moralistic mindset. They KNOW what buttons to push. They pander to Christians by invoking the founding fathers in their rhetoric, and just in doing that they know they’ve got them. So just push them buttons and regardless of the issue, they’ll just jump on the bandwagon. This is how Christians can somehow give consent to engaging in war. Never mind the whole illegal war thing point, I mean war, period. Somehow that whole “thou shalt not kill” bit goes out the window, and don’t give me that 9/11 bullshit either because bottom line Thou Shalt Not Kill means TURN THE OTHER FUCKING CHEEK AND DON’T START A WAR THAT MURDERS MILLIONS OF PEOPLE AND CALL IT COLLATERAL DAMAGE. It isn’t collateral damage, it’s a bunch of dead people. SO… If a 12 year old girl is raped, they say to have the baby because it is just God’s will for her to carry that burden? Seriously? Why? Is it because you care so much about the life of the unborn and undeveloped fetus? Really? I don’t think so. They just want you to vote for them so they can continue to push this country deeper into multinational corporate fascism for personal gain. Don’t talk to me about the lives of the unborn while supporting the troops by funding their war instead of bringing them home because I don’t see anybody giving much of a shit about the lives of the unborn over there. Why? Because they don’t give a shit about human life whatsoever, born or unborn. If they want Americans to have babies it’s to send to them to war to murder peasant in dirt poor countries that have minerals that their friends want to exploit. To exploit them for labor, which brings more taxpayers to bring more money into the machine that keeps them living a luxurious lifestyle on your sweat, while keeping the banks and services staffed and in business so they can get greased by them too to stay in office in their luxury lifestyle. To keep people poor. So many people who shouldn’t have babies are having babies and can’t afford it at all. One thing leads to another, next thing you know that kid’s in prison… Like I said, labor. We’ve got SOOOOO many prisons in this country and they are WORKIN’, trust me. But either way, they stay in office, we stay at war because Christians are WAYYYYY to easy to manipulate.

Like persistent agitated flies…They’re everywhere.

…or racists like you.

They do that in the bible. A woman is forced to marry her rapist. In the middle east she is stoned to death. Of course this is the same party and extremists that also forget the child after the birth. They refuse to help with day care so the mother can go back to school or get a job. They refuse health care and to subsidize food to feed the kids. They demolished a big chunk of the head start program that was so successful.

Now they want to turn back everything. A woman cannot get an abortion for any reason, not rape, not age of the child having a child, not the health of the mother or fetus. No reason at all. And now many of these lunatic candidates want to outlaw most methods of birth control. As usual it is the womb of the woman being held hostage. I wonder if condoms are included?

I would bet my life that if this were a mans reproductive rights being curtailed or eliminated, the streets would be filled with men demanding an end to this OUTRAGE.

Less government? Sure except for the woman’s right to legislate her own body. Where is less government in our lives with this bunch? Religious zealots. Religious nuts. Right wing insanity. By all means elect this bunch at your own peril. Just another attempt to chip away at the Roe v Wade decision. They have already just about dismantled it in most all states.

If we elect this group of soulless, ideologues than whose freedoms will fall next? By whose decisions will the rest of us be living? And what happens when one of ours is raped, and what will we be saying then? Bring out the coat hangers and the bleach. Find a back alley abortionist? Of course if you have money, you can go elsewhere to get one. This means that republicans will have the means and will be on the nearest plane to go elsewhere.

So now we have thought police, we have people telling us what is proper. We have a few telling us they own our country and our rights. All we have to do is shut up and go along. Not with the majority, but with a minority who now have the money, the media and a lock on our politicians.

Obama is not the Nazi here. The nazi’s in the room wear the GOP/Tea Party/Conservative label. Heil!! You have nothing to lose but your freedom to live as you choose.

If you look at the idea of being Pro-life, that means you should never support killing of any kind including the death penalty which republicans almost universally support and war which republicans almost universally support. Women who run for office who are republican and have some of the most right wing views of the people running in my view are brainwashed from birth that only men should be allowed to make decisions about a persons private life. Why else would they support having a male dominated government having control over what a woman can do with her body in a medical capacity? I myself do not like abortion as I am willing to bet 90%+ of the population also don’t like abortion. The issue in my view is A Do we want a government that stays out of peoples lives or not? B Do women want to have choice in regards to medical procedures just like men do? The problem I have with the extremists on both sides of this issue is that they are unwilling to make any kind of compromises. This is how I would like it to be, if a woman gets pregnant by her own choice and is of legal age to make that decision than I believe if she wants an abortion she must decide within a short period of time. I do not like women waiting until the last minute and then deciding they don’t want the child. I support abortions for rape, incest, and the mothers life being in danger however I do believe that a fetus is a human being and its at a stage of development where it can not live on its own. Once a fetus is viable to live outside the mother that is when I no longer agree with abortion except under that conditions of rape, incest, mothers health. BTW I am a man, and think it is complete bullshit when a woman says that men should have no say. That is a big reason why many men DO NOT support abortion in any case and if women want to alienate normally very considerate and compassionate men and put at risk the abortion laws as they stand. Be my guest

I just watched part of Obama’s speech at a fundraiser in D.C. – I have to tell you that he just closed MY enthusiasm gap. God, he’s accomplished a lot. In spite of all the cynical stonewalling by republicans. Time to get involved an keep moving forward!
This is about a lot more than this election – it’s about a long-term future involving appointment of judges, DADT, the Obama tax cut for the middle class and on and on.
Please don’t stay home – VOTE!

I think they meant to add to the “ANY woman” part.

You think he actually *loved* the woman? I think he just wanted to get his rocks off in a “deviant” manner.

Owing to the scandals du jour of the GOP, and the fact that a really really big portion of them are men, these particular Republicans are probably afraid that abortion would kill their own children.

Excuse me if I’m blunt, but I am past the place of know return. I absolutely find the republican party the most disgusting human beings on earth. I hate them all. I wish glenn beck would insist they drink the cool-aid right after he does. How cruel are they and just where are all the Christian values they are all so proud of? They are all sorry excuses for human beings, I hope sharron angle and bachman and all of the witches in the republican party get raped and become pregnant. Then let’s see how fast they beat down the Drs. door for an abortion Let’s see if the holy rollers like huckabee and newt have Christian values if their daughter gets raped and becomes Pregnant! What SOB’s! I’m an atheist and I have a hell of a lot more “christian values” than anyone in the republican party! I really wish there was a god and on judgement day I could be their when the republican’s face their god and he asks way they never thought of other peoples suffering? Why did they lie cheat and steal from less fortunate people? Why were they so unchristian like? For that reason only I wish there was a god.

if this is the case then, all of these “people” should be on the hook to raise these babies into adulthood….collectively and individually, they should ease the financial burden of rape victims and “do the right thing” christian-wise….

Let us pretend/assume there is a genetic predisposition for rape – this might not be true but hang with me. If we ban abortions of pregnancies created by rapists, we increase the frequency of rapist tendencies in our society. Why would we do that?

Let us pretend/assume there is a genetic predisposition for rape – this might not be true but hang with me. If we ban abortions of pregnancies created by rapists, we increase the frequency of rapist tendencies in our society. Why would we do that?

Let us pretend/assume there is a genetic predisposition for rape – this might not be true but hang with me. If we ban abortions of pregnancies created by rapists, we increase the frequency of rapist tendencies in our society. Why would we do that?

Let us pretend/assume there is a genetic predisposition for rape – this might not be true but hang with me. If we ban abortions of pregnancies created by rapists, we increase the frequency of rapist tendencies in our society. Why would we do that?

You can bet these same bullies made their mistresses get abortions to save their “reputations” and “marriages”.

All women need to unite against republican ignorence. (repugnorence)

Q: What is the collective Viagra/Cialis bill of these 78 GOP Senators per month?
A: Enough to place one pregnant staffer into a creationist-run baby camp.

If men could become pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament.

Right on. Wouldn’t even be discussed.

Whatever it is, we pay for it. And…….I believe Medicare pays for “boehner” pills for men, but birth control pills for women on welfare get the third degree. Just imagine a bunch of dirty old tory-men wandering around making passes at your grandmother at assisted living himes.

People with money will always have access to safe abortions. It’s the people without money, those the least capable of supporting a child who will suffer.

Is this surprising? The GOP and many of its current members simply do not believe in women’s equality, personal sovereignty, or equal rights. They don’t. They believe in the subjugation of women. And a number of GOP women, like Sharron Angle, agree with this too.

EXCEPT, of course, if their own daughters end up in this horrible situation. Then all bets are off.

SS

Men can be and are brutally raped, though, and there’s no outcry. But then those men tend to be poor, imprisoned ones. If rich men could become pregnant or were regularly and easily raped, there’d be the strictest penalties out and an abortion center on every corner.

BTW, as for how the reich-wing and even some liberals work, just look at what happened to Bill Baird, whose fight made contraceptives available for everyone in 1972. Utterly and completely destroyed.

Indeed. Wouldn’t Liz Cheney be lobbying against gays if her sister wasn’t a confirmed carpet-muncher?

I assume also that Lynne Cheney is at least bi, judging by her previous foray into authoring lesbian pulp fiction and that five-deferment pussy she is married to.

http://whitehouse.georgewbush.org/administration/sisters.asp

Likewise for socialism. No problem bailing out corporate pirates with trillions but fuck the working joe if he thinks he or she is going to get a decent break.

Or a satan, for if there were, they would all go straight to hell.
Not one of those liars strike me as truly christian as they claim. They are all faithless, lying panderers who cater to the lowest common denominator because they would simply stop at nothing to be in control. Republicans are quite simply a disease and a filthy, indellible stain on the face of America.

Um yeah. Misconstrued. That was in no way a racist comment.

True, but they have a problem with us, ( I guess most women) since we are not asking their permission to be equal, we are, .that’s a fact, whether socially ,politically and financially, How many households today would survive without the women financial contribution?.

The subjugation of women is a reactionary wet dream, but in today’s society, it is simply economically and socially impossible. Women are an intrinsic part of the fabric of society, and without their contributions and accomplishments, the dynamics of society as we know it today, would crumble.

http://powerofnarrative.blogspot.com/2007/08/of-abortion-and-women-as-ultimate.html

So, I suppose that they would also want their wives and daughters to have to bear the child of somebody who raped them, right? And then, they would have their wives and daughters stoned? Perhaps buried up to their necks? Told that were now unclean? I can’t seem to recall what other religion this sounds like. I guess just as long as it gets them elected, it doesn’t matter what happens to their wives and daughters.

We both know that they only have in interest in making rules for other people to live by…its pure hypocrisy…because they expect a loophole for very wealthy or well connected people to stay open for their use if they need it…while the rest of us live under the iron bootheel of the Jesus Crispies.

Maybe this is what it will take to wake people up. Perhaps we should spend a few years under the iron rule of religious maniacs with no regard for the freedoms or rights of others. Maybe after suffering and seeing firsthand what life is like when you elect these slime Americans will finally snap out of their torpor and be grateful for the rights they still have…and perhaps even stand up to reclaim the many we’ve lost.

A fella can hope, can’t he?

A woman who votes for one of these “without discrimination” candidates is like a Jew voting for Hitler. Utterly insane.

These men/women REALLY hate women…and love rapists.

Fundamentalists of all religious stripes seem to have this in common, a hatred of women and a fanatical need to control their bodies. Progressives everywhere must oppose this wherever it raises its head and no matter what religious flavor it comes in .

All the ones who claim they want the ‘guv’ment’ out of their lives apparently want the gov’t in our bedroom’s and women’s uteri.
They love the unborn. They want to dress them up with cute dbows.
But what do they intend to do with all those babies born….once they make absolutely certain that every sperm becomes sacred?
And each pregnancy is carried through to fruition.
Making the investigation of each miscarriage mandatory.

Because these rightwing libertarians hate the poor.

They believe in social Darwinism.
They want to give the rich and corporations every advantage to make them richer.
They want to undo all “entitlement” programs ( i.e., social programs that help the most economically disadvantaged) They want to do away with Social Security or let it fail and then privatize it. Some want to do away with minimum wage, a few have mentioned housing the poor in prisons ( to “teach them hygiene”)
But basically the subtext to width and breadth of their platforms is that they regard the middle class as the source of their wealth and the rest as just ‘useless eaters’ …or as the Club of Rome once called them, surplus humanity.
They want women back in the homes and enact legislation leading active job discrimination.
And any woman who is single or working or out by herself to be viewed ‘is asking for it’.

They want her to pay for the rape kit.
They want her to raise the child of her attacker…. to grow up to be another psycho soldier of Christ.

This ideology needs to be roundly rejected,
and sent back to the Dark Ages where it belongs.

I used to joke that it was Pfizer’s fault for many of today’s escalating problems.

In the past, aging men of wealth, power and influence would succumb to the inevitable: impotence. Even the most powerful would accept this inevitable fate, and as a natural turn of life, and would enjoy their golden years fishing, playing with the grand kids, and gazing into the still blue of their loving wife’s eyes, preparing to leave this world in monogamous bliss.

Then this little blue pill comes along and suddenly these rich, powerful men who were ready to go to pasture find new preoccupation in young women. Being privileged, they have the means to procure the sexual services of these women one way or the other. This new found vigor translates into their other affairs and whether they are politicians or business leaders, their decisions are affected by this illusion of youth, not to mention they may possess obsessions from the past that should be buried with them.

Somewhere down the line a chemical intervention occurred that defied nature.

That defiance is fucking up the world more than ever before.

Women become the metaphorical receptacle for their ‘illusions of grandeur.’

Jill Stanek refers to these situations as “innocent babies whose fathers are sexual criminals.” Notice that the WOMAN involved isn’t mentioned.

This is the biggest problem the Tea Party and the GOP have they profess to want the government out of our lives except when it comes to a woman’s right to choose what she does with her body. I want a list of all the women who know these 78 candidates and have been raped and carried to term by choice, I want to hear from them do they think women should be forced to carry a rapist offspring to term ?

You should be careful with the over-generalization. It isn’t helpful or true. It’s obvious when someone hasn’t had very many conversations with his ‘opponents’ because he tends to speak, well, like you do.
Adios

“I do not like women waiting until the last minute and then deciding they don’t want the child.”
Less than 1% of abortions are third trimester. These women and their families were expecting to have a baby – they had an abortion because something had gone terribly, horribly wrong with the pregnancy. Don’t judge them until you’ve walked in their shoes.

“BTW I am a man, and think it is complete bullshit when a woman says that men should have no say.”
I understand where you are coming from, a man must feel pretty helpless when his girlfriend says she’s having a baby/abortion and he has no say. The financial obligation must feel unfair as well. However, although both parties are responsible for sex and it’s outcomes. The vast majority of the burden of carrying and raising a child is on the woman, so while I’m sympathetic, I cannot consider that is could be a man’s right to decide what someone does with their body.

A woman’s fully developed nervous system takes precedence over a fetus’ undeveloped one. Sorry, this isn’t an issue about “killing babies” as much as anti-abortion folks want to paint it that way.

On the contrary, I have family members and even coworkers who support these ideas.
Not mention the hours I’ve spent reading and listening to teabaggers and religiously oriented politicians.

What I was doing here;
… was trying to strip it down to its bare essence. Itemize it in a manner to show the contradictions between policy and reality.
And if anything, to initiate polemic, -which I do believe to be important, and atleast helpful.

But what are you doing in your comment? (aside from living up to your moniker) you haven’t bothered to explain what you think is over generalized here.
Or where in my overview you think I’m allegedly in err.

Kick it up a notch, give me an argument.

…and quite a few DINOS. I live in Indiana and Ellsworth is busy proving he’s an even bigger dick than Coats.

The Handmaids Tale is the scariest story I have ever read–and coming true a little more every year.

Actually, living in the bible belt, Velasquez hits the nail on the head, and the people he is talking about are not the least bit ashamed. They are white, property owning, and entitled to rule. Just ask ‘em.

I also love the contrast between ‘us’ and the islamic extremists. The Shiite evangelicals fail to realize they are describing themselves. But the wallstreet types like it just fine as long as they can get Dobson to tell people who vote Republicant that they are the chosen people voting the party of god. Never underestimate the bigot vote. How else do you get people to vote for concentrated free inherited wealth for the deserving few? These boobs think they will some day be part of the 1%.

The church ladies lost their edge in the 60′s when having a child without benefit of clergy lost it’s sting so they bitterly decided to go after all birth control. You don’t have children to love–you have children because you are meant to suffer and be miserable. Can you tell I’m a happy free thinker with one terribly over-indulged child?

I’ll explain:
First of all, combining the terms ‘right wing’ and ‘libertarian’ is incorrect. You can’t have both. Right wing implies a desire to maintain the current social/political/economic order. Libertarian implies a support for a government which protects maximal personal liberties in social/economic spheres, while also protecting property rights and prosecuting fraud. If you are a libertarian, you cannot be right wing, because the current social/political/economic order is not one which promotes maximal personal liberties and holds as government’s primary duty the maintenance of property rights and the prosecution of fraud. On the contrary. As you mention above, the right wing is for ‘liberty’ in rhetoric only, just as the ‘liberal’ left is for liberty (latin liber-) in name only.
Now, the rest of your message, as I took it, was a mixture of misrepresentation of the libertarian ideology and accurate but uninformed representation. (however, if the message is to be taken as a representation of the right wing, it makes a bit more sense)
-Libertarians do not hold as any kind of tenet a belief in social Darwinism. Many libertarians do not agree with government doling of charity (welfare, medicaid, section 8 housing) but will readily give charity themselves. This in the understanding that being poor does not necessarily mean deserving to be poor. I won’t give this one much time, because it doesn’t deserve it.
-They want to give EVERYONE every advantage to make them richer. Libertarians understand that corporations are only as strong as the consumers allow them to be, and only for good reasons… that is, unless they are given government fiat, bailouts, or other types of special advantages in the form of subsidy on the one hand or taxation of enemies on the other.
-Undoing entitlements – most libertarians would agree, but the fact is, it is simply that there should be no force involved in the giving of charity, once again. Old people did not die in the streets before social security. The poor were not dying in the streets without medical care before medicaid (think Shriner’s, etc).
-As for the minimum wage, please do a little reading on the economics of the minimum wage. To assert that there should be a minimum wage is to assume that there -do not exist- jobs which are worth less than the arbitrary minimum wage. This cannot be true. Logically, then, we must suppose that there are people with below minimum wage skills that are going without jobs when they could otherwise find an employer willing to pay them. Minimum wage increases unemployment. Minimum wage is one of the most perfect examples of – Good Intentions Do Not Equal Good Results -
No libertarian would propose housing the poor in prisons, sorry.

As you say, “They want women back in the homes and enact legislation leading active job discrimination.
And any woman who is single or working or out by herself to be viewed as’ asking for it’.”
I say, “bull. shit.” Again, you are not talking about libertarians.

“They want her to pay for the rape kit.
They want her to raise the child of her attacker…. to grow up to be another psycho soldier of Christ.”
Not really. Some libertarians do believe that a forming fetus has rights just like an adult, (I do not believe this) which would make abortion murder, which is essentially breaking a property right, the right to own one’s body. This is not a scientifically sound claim, but it also dances in moral territory. It is not cut and dry, although I believe I hold the same conclusion that you do on this one…

I suggest you learn what the word means. Just because someone calls themselves a libertarian (and, incidentally, I don’t think that most right-wingers do) does not mean they are one. There may exist people that fir the description you describe up there, but they certainly are not libertarians.

Peace

Great article! Also note that the ‘leave it to the states’ argument was the last refuge of those who were against segregation. If we don’t have complete ownership of ourselves, we are slaves.

I feel ya, girlcousin. I live here, too. My real beef if with the misrepresentation of the libertarian ideology. I see far too much of it nowadays to let it slide. You can read my other Reply if you’re interested in seeing what I mean.
Take care

Just as one example of how much the ‘elites’ despise women–viagra is covered on prescription policies, and, in the rare times pregnancy is even covered by health insurance, pregnancy vitamins are not be cause they are, well, vitamins. No exceptions. After all the quibbling over who can have an abortion and how many movies of screaming babies being aborted you have to watch to have one, the entire cost of women voluntarily having children is entirely born by the woman.

What if the babies being aborted were Taliban or even Muslim babies would they care so much then? I think not.

Just a quick reply to “How else do you get people to vote for concentrated free inherited wealth for the deserving few?”:
An undeserving heir does not long hold on to their riches. They usually start businesses like AIG and Citibank, manage them poorly, and fail. Wait… they don’t fail, because they get government bailouts…

I had to search “Rubio abortion vew” to confirm that Rubio is extremely Pro-Life, but isn’t it worth the effort to check on your local candidates?

http://blogs.tampabay.com/buzz/2010/05/rubio-urges-crist-to-sign-abortion-bill.html

Whew! That was a long one. So, Libertarians are Social Darwinists AND lean towards Pro Life agenda, which means that the poor, raped, pregnant woman will ultimately be left to take care of the child with no social services. Nice.

No, it’s just that all of this applies to OTHER peoples wives and daughters.

I couldn’t have written as fallacious an argument as yours if I tried.
Libertarians that I’ve talked to tend to be pro-choice. So no.
Also, “no government social services” does not equal “no social services”
Use your brain and stop being intentionally unproductive.

I guess I’ll have to start adding (SARCASM) to my posts. Sorry you misunderstood.

THANK YOU!

I think this only refers to what their definition of a “human baby” is.

I so much wanted Tim Roemer to get the nod. Up north we have Blue Dog Joe Donnelly and Jackie Walorskie. The difference between the two is which one wears a bra.

If men were the ones having babies there would be drive-through abortions and you could get fries and a Coke with it.

Very few Libertarians are pure. It is more of an ideal than an actual political position. Most Libertarians also take strong right wing social views and most right wing nuts have strong Libertarian views. Not all, but in my opinion, most.

More important though, I totally agree with your previous comment on over generalizations. Such broad characterizations do more harm than good.

We just went through eight years of that crap as several States enacted more and more restrictive abortion legislation AND anti gay marriage provisions.

If there was any good to come from that it was a greater awareness of civil rights.

Another generalization. Most family fortunes are invested and the heirs brought into the family business. Some, such as Ford Motor Company and SC Johnson and Company, are still run by the family.

That is what Canada is for. The rich can just send their wimin folk up north for an abortion.

I feel ya.
“An undeserving heir does not long hold on to their riches.”
The person I was responding to was complaining about worthless heirs (what’s her name drug addict chick comes to mind… argh I can’t remember oh well…) receiving, “concentrated free wealth”, an argument I hear a lot.
If Ford’s kids can continue to profitably run the company, more power to them. It was probably due to the resources spent on education and a good upbringing for the kids that led to it, and who could complain about that.
Adios

these reich bitches all sing a different tune when their 13 year old daughter gets raped and pregnant by her father… or 14 year old boyfriend… you know the type -you see them in their churches singing hosanna! hosanna! alleluia! these presumptuous hypocrites slander, steal, lie, and fuck their neighbor’s spouse during the week… all together now: hosanna! hosanna! praise the lord!

I’m not so sure about most libertarians taking strong right wing social views. I can’t make a valid claim either way about the reality of the views of people that self-identify as libertarians, but I will say that despite their self-identification, supporting legislation that illegalizes things like gay marriage and drug use are against the libertarian ideal. I would have to say these views are a departure from their self-identified ideology, and can’t be used to define libertarian.
btw creepy avatar. I guess mine is creepy, too, now that I think about it. Gotta look into that!
Peace

It would seem to me that these right wing conservatives are our own American Taliban. Pretty scary stuff what they will impose on the American people. What a bunch of hypocrites. They want less govt in our lives but not out of my uterus. The government has no right to tell me if I can or can’t terminate an unwanted pregnancy and it should stay that way. If these people get into office we will really see the end of our personal rights. If they get their way and ban abortions then every unwanted pregnancy should be laid on their door steps after birth. It seems they want you to have them but then don’t want to help care for them when they cut off support funding to the very people they are forcing to have them

Are they going to meet in Louisville at the top KKKlan church for prayer and a guidance sigh from the Grand Master as he walks in carrying a burning cross and the scalp of no-believer?? Every single one of these monsters wants the govenment monitoring EVERY SINGLE ONE of these pregnancies to full term then “PooF”..they don’t care anymore – at all – ever..

They’re on to the next raped teen to make sure she becomes a psycho and a ward of the state… Opps, can’t have that – got no money for wards of the state..so bye..bye.. fend for yourself on the streets..oh and that baby you now have?? Have a great life…

NEXT!

Easy answer, just lock up these candidates’ daughters with the rapists, one by one. You’ll see a change of heart really quick. And if the rapist is black, you’ll see how fast these pasty lily white cowards will take their daughter for an abortion. These people are freaks.

an easy way to get around this abortion issue is to NOT HAVE UNPROTECTED SEX!! Abortion should not be used as birth control. Self control and being responsible enough to use a condom is a simple request. As for pregnancies due to rape, the mother should absolutely have the right to terminate, but to use abortion as birth control is just wrong.

The poor daughters didn’t choose their whacky fathers so it’s better left as a thought experiment… But I sure believe you’re right!

That’s more like it!

Well, first, it would seem the core of your disagreement is on my generalization of libertarians. And in particular adding rightwing to it.
Actually I had to, because there are more kinds of libertarians thanyour definition appears to allow.
Your definition of libertarianism is just too limited and specific.

I’m guessing you’re a libertarian of a specific stripe who believes they’re the only proper libertarians.

Am I to assume that us ‘libertarian socialists’ (or social anarchists) in your book aren’t real libertarians?

I differentiate between the various strains of libertarianism for specific reasons.

When I think of rightwing libertarianism then I have in mind the current brand of Ron Paulists whose ideological lineage is from Ayn Rand, Ludwig Von Mises and Friedrich Hayek. Not to mention the crazier theories he picked up from his stint at the John Birch Society…some of which he seems to have learned the wisdom not to talk about but hasn’t yet passed on to his son Rand.
Mind you, as embarassed as I am to admit it, I’m the one who back in the middle 1970′s talked my mother into libertarianism. I thought it a reasonable alternative to the GOP at the time.
You’re assumption that libertarians don’t believe in Social Darwinism doesn’t quite jibe with many Ayn Randian libertarians I’ve spoken to who feel absolutely no obligation to help others. Nor are they urged to by their goddess Ayn…. who was above the moral codes imposed by mediocre minded religionists.
They DO NOT want “EVERYONE” to be rich. That would defy the logic of being richer… because to have more than others means someone has to have less. And those that have less, according to SD libertarians, have less because they’re inferior human beings who deserve to die out. But that any effort to help those without is ‘socialism’ or ‘collectivism’. Tell me how that isn’t Social Darwinism in practice.
Btw, … what stats can you use to prove that poor people didn’t die on the streets (or in rural communities) before the advent of Social Security?
Before the enactment of alot of social legislation both by Roosevelt and later by Lyndon B Johnson there was widespread malnution in inner cities and mountain communities, infant mortality and greater lack of access to healthcare with translates in real world terms into unnecessary deaths among the uninsured (i.e., the poor)

And you’ve tried to survive on minimum wage… how recently… if ever?

But I’m not go too far into this argument… at the moment.
I’ll simply say that there are active libertarians whose own words contradict your own definitions.

Of course, ….I’ll concede in a couple of areas;

The GOP’s connection with tea party candidates is completely involuntary.
They tried to support their own establishment candidates but inevitably they were overridden by FOX News and astro turf orgs like Citizens United. And they’re forced to appear to be riding the teabag express.
Secondly, the christian evangelical strain isn’t intrinsically libertarian… as they’re essentially theocrats who support corporate oligarchical faux democracy. And I know that Ayn Rand was an atheist and that the free market and the ‘ego’ was her real god. In occult terms, she’d be on the Left Hand Path… the elevated SELF wishing to insinuate itself so as to not have to answer any deity.
But, I lump the christ-tards and the Ayn Randians together because you have a cumulative political platform that presents itself under one umbrella known as the Tea Party Movement. And there is actually some cross pollinization on between them.

cheers!

That’s more like it!

Well, first, it would seem the core of your disagreement is on my generalization of libertarians. And in particular adding rightwing to it.
Actually I had to, because there are more kinds of libertarians thanyour definition appears to allow.
Your definition of libertarianism is just too limited and specific.

I’m guessing you’re a libertarian of a specific stripe who believes they’re the only proper libertarians.

Am I to assume that us ‘libertarian socialists’ (or social anarchists) in your book aren’t real libertarians?

I differentiate between the various strains of libertarianism for specific reasons.

When I think of rightwing libertarianism then I have in mind the current brand of Ron Paulists whose ideological lineage is from Ayn Rand, Ludwig Von Mises and Friedrich Hayek. Not to mention the crazier theories he picked up from his stint at the John Birch Society…some of which he seems to have learned the wisdom not to talk about but hasn’t yet passed on to his son Rand.
Mind you, as embarassed as I am to admit it, I’m the one who back in the middle 1970′s talked my mother into libertarianism. I thought it a reasonable alternative to the GOP at the time.
You’re assumption that libertarians don’t believe in Social Darwinism doesn’t quite jibe with many Ayn Randian libertarians I’ve spoken to who feel absolutely no obligation to help others. Nor are they urged to by their goddess Ayn…. who was above the moral codes imposed by mediocre minded religionists.
They DO NOT want “EVERYONE” to be rich. That would defy the logic of being richer… because to have more than others means someone has to have less. And those that have less, according to SD libertarians, have less because they’re inferior human beings who deserve to die out. But that any effort to help those without is ‘socialism’ or ‘collectivism’. Tell me how that isn’t Social Darwinism in practice.
Btw, … what stats can you use to prove that poor people didn’t die on the streets (or in rural communities) before the advent of Social Security?
Before the enactment of alot of social legislation both by Roosevelt and later by Lyndon B Johnson there was widespread malnution in inner cities and mountain communities, infant mortality and greater lack of access to healthcare with translates in real world terms into unnecessary deaths among the uninsured (i.e., the poor)

And you’ve tried to survive on minimum wage… how recently… if ever?

But I’m not go too far into this argument… at the moment.
I’ll simply say that there are active libertarians whose own words contradict your own definitions.

Of course, ….I’ll concede in a couple of areas;

The GOP’s connection with tea party candidates is completely involuntary.
They tried to support their own establishment candidates but inevitably they were overridden by FOX News and astro turf orgs like Citizens United. And they’re forced to appear to be riding the teabag express.
Secondly, the christian evangelical strain isn’t intrinsically libertarian… as they’re essentially theocrats who support corporate oligarchical faux democracy. And I know that Ayn Rand was an atheist and that the free market and the ‘ego’ was her real god. In occult terms, she’d be on the Left Hand Path… the elevated SELF wishing to insinuate itself so as to not have to answer any deity.
But, I lump the christ-tards and the Ayn Randians together because you have a cumulative political platform that presents itself under one umbrella known as the Tea Party Movement. And there is actually some cross pollinization on between them.

cheers!

“Aw, aint that cute, hes got his daddys eyes, all glazed over and evil looking…..”

Thanks, John. However, when being raped, it is not alays easy to get the condom onto the penis of your attacker. But yes, protected rape is always the better option.

Are you a Scalia conservatard who doesn’t believe in the right to privacy?

The Republican Party: Get the government off of your back and into your pants!

This scumbag organization didn’t mention “rape” in the leaflets they handed out. I assumed they excluded rape because during the exam a procedure is sometimes done to prevent pregnancy. Their website does look as though they feel a criminally conceived is valid. Upon further look , it seems that the majority of evangelicals are against this right to life measure.

That is because republicans are only used to doing it to others , while protecting themselves.
Do you believe if the shoes or what ever you which to call it , was on the other foot they would change their mind.

@howiebledsoe You apparently can’t read very well. I think you missed the line that said, “As for pregnancies due to rape, the mother should absolutely have the right to terminate”. But i guess there’s nothing wrong with taking one sentence out of context when you want to get your point accross right?

Silly people. Don’t you know that women don’t own their own bodies. They’re owned by their fathers until which time they’re married. If they become of legal age and are not given away, the State owns them. Then, after they’re married, their husbands own them.

And gays? Well, they’re not actually citizens.

I think Mr. T. has it right. He should be the judge in all cases of unexpected pregnancies. He should be able to determine for ALL women precisely how to make this decision because women shouldn’t own their own bodies.

The clearest text on abortion in The Bible is God himself saying if two men fight, and one of their wives is pregnant and steps into it, and the other guy punches her in the stomach causing her to miscarry (abortion by fist) the guy throwing the punch has to pay her husband for the inconvenience that causes him (for his wife being unable to work for a few days). It is not called murder, in fact, God (yes, God saying it) doesn’t even mention the fetus, other than saying she is pregnant and miscarries (impying a fetus). Hardly anything like the platform the ‘don’t abort for any reason’ crowd clings to. Yes, there are athiests who are against abortion too and they are hard to figure out.

No need to insult me. Read my comment again. It fits Rand Paul to a tee. He considers himself an Ayn Rand libertarian.

let’s look at the real “number” of repugs who share this neandrotholic view. it’s
not 78 or 112; it’s every one of them. why don’t they chastise Geo. W for the “illegal” abortion that
was forced upon the woman by his Pappy?

You assume that inhereted wealth leads to failure. You imply ‘market correction’. The same long disproven Ayan Rand / Milton Friedman myth that unregulated markets fix themsleves. That is not true. There are plenty who inhereted wealth, screwed with it, and are just fine before and after the manufactured collapse their banker friends created. There is only one continent on earth with several examples of libertarian governments. Libertarian meaning, only defense and infastructure spending. That would be nations in Africa.

The most Libertarian of all being Somalia. It’s actually more anarchy now. But you have nations there with armies and government thugs doing the dirty work of Rothschild and Robertson diamond and gold diggers. So there is the ‘defense’. They need roads to drive the army and the trucks full of what they dig to awaiting ships to take the wealth to the ‘first world’ where they think it belongs. There are no social programs, no public anything. If I am wrong, please point out one single Libertarian govt. EVER that has been successful. You can’t.

I would say that close to 100% of people don’t like abortion. It’s not a matter of liking it or not.
It’s not a comfortable walk in the park no matter how early in the pregnancy it’s done. The argument is about women’s rights.

Here, here! Get ‘em to the poll’s to vote republican! That is the story in a nutshell.

Wrong. Above you say: “Shriners”. Sorry. The idea that ‘if govt got out of the way charity could do it all’ is a myth by the wealthy who don’t want to pay taxes that go to help others. You have a right to feel that way, that there is a right to greed. But if these people who don’t want to chip in for the common good they don’t support a better America. They are un-American. Look at the history. The two largest drops in poverty happened 1) After Social Securtiy was enacted 2) After Medicare was enacted. The concept that a few thousand generous people with the bliss of a few hundred extra tax dollars to spare will lead to a massive boom in charitable giving is a myth.

Your Libertarian hero Ron Paul said the best time in America was the late 1800s. Right! JP Morgan and JD Rockefeller owned 95% of the nations businesses. Morgan bailed out the US government TWICE. Child labor, people could be beaten for not doing their jobs right. That’s what no regulations blessed us with. The poor were hustled into massive poor houses that were filthy sewers. Out of sight, out of mind. If a wheelchair bound man couldn’t get into a store, and wasn’t blessed with friends to help, he didn’t buy anything that day. You really want that again? You think that’s somehow better? Unregulated capitalism leads to social darwinism. Charity can’t do it all. Get off the myth.

well, in that case it is time for those 78 goons to get raped or their wives, moms and daughters… then we’ll see where they really stand, eh?

Every minimum wage increase on record was followed by economic growth. Please prove the reverse of this. You can’t. No minimum wage will lead to ‘lowly’ service jobs being paid less. Period. You can dance around with your ideology all you want, you can’t change this FACT.

America is shifting to a service-oriented economy. What jobs can’t be exported, or imported illegally, will be done by people here so desperate for work, they’ll do them. This is the royal scam. This is why we may never have a ‘recovery’ from this, until we have a real revolution.

Not a Ron Paul Revolution. Welfare was reformed, 1/3 as many are on it, 5 years and they are kicked off permanently. For the first time, both Medicare and Social Security are in very realistic danger of cuts, privatization, or both, at the hands of so-called Democrats at that.

And that smirking twit Ron gets on TV and says we are going in THE OTHER direction. The so called health care reform he opposed is going to mainly empower private corporations. It’s not that he opposes, it’s when you help people in addition to corporations that it is a problem.

We are de-industrializing. The idea that everyone who does meager service jobs, sweeping floors, dumping trash, stocking shelves, etc., is some kid on his way through college or some senior with time to kill to justify low pay is nonsense. For many, it’s the only job they’ll get.

The post-crash economy we are in gave companies excuses to cut 10-20% of their workforce and then demand the 80% remaining do the 100% of work done before. Productivity is at a record high. Woopie! So is stress for those remaining who work in fear of losing their jobs.

So no talk of unions, so they work extra hard. Great. Jobs above minimum wage in that area are now seeing pay-cuts for the ‘lucky’ who didn’t get laid-off. What other choice do they have but to leave and find what job where? Exactly! Now YOU say take away minimum wage too?

You obviously don’t live on minimum wage. You feel you never will. The job you got from the help of family or friends, or hard work, whatever, will be there next year. You’re sure that if a layoff happens there, you can find another. Or biz you run will be running fine next year.

Maybe your trust-fund from family keeps you going. Whatever the reason, you lack what most semi-sociopaths who are Libertarians lack. Empathy. You cannot put yourselves in the shoes of those ‘below’ you. You will never be there, well, at least you are sure you won’t be now.

I don’t wish ill will on others. Live and let live. I wish you the best in life like everyone. But if I was one to do that, I would pray you soon fall into dissaray. Your business fails, your cushy job is exported, and your friends can’t hustle you into a new one. Then what will you say…?

“Welcome To Walmart”. Now, please explain, as you’re making minimum wage there, after two years of looking and inability to find a better paying job, or start a new buisness, how you would feel if minimum wage were vanquished, and your pay fell by a few dollars an hour.

You can’t. You honestly have that inability to see it happening to you. The neighbords houses are flooded, but I’m up on a hill. I built wisely, they should have too. Why should I pay to put any money into a ‘common good’ fund that helps them. Against MY will. Me me me me me.

Soon enough, you realize Libertarians really only look at the world entirely from what benefits them. Milton Friedman tried to say this was ideal. He was an operative trying to destroy the USA as was Ayan Rand. Their followers share the same self-centered viewpoints on life.

Suddenly, the waters rise higher, your house on the highest hill isn’t high enough. Oh nose! What will you do? You’re Libertarian lifeboat is moot, where will it take you, everything else is flooded. You suddently change your tune. Suddenly, ‘their problem’ becomes your problem.

You cry out: “Wait, isn’t there some ‘government program’ to help flood victims all you liberals liked?” But nobody is left to hear your cries. Then the concience you never had rises up and says: “No, selfish people like you voted against those. Now finally, you’ll reap what you sew”.

Anyone want to bet that, if they got their way, right after these women gave birth to a baby conceived as a result of rape, the same Republicans would condemn the victims for having sex/babies out of wedlock (or with someone other than their husband)?

Warning to women (and men): Don’t fuck any of these 78 GOP Candidates.

In the overwhelming number of premarital sexual encounters, condoms or other forms of birth control are used.

Reason: birth control is a lot cheaper than abortions and a lot less traumatic.

Abortions are generally used because of medical reasons.

In very few instances are abortions used as methods of convenience. It’s a traumatic procedure for the woman and can distort a person’s view of sexuality for life.

Sharia Law is alive and well and thriving in America due to the ceaseless efforts of the far-far-right wing extremists such as these 78 mentioned in this article.

The Republican Party is a far bigger threat to freedom in America than any Muslim could ever hope to be. For one thing Muslims don’t have a 24 hour propaganda and lie spreading ‘news’ channel on TV.

Ford, imperfect as he was, has a philosophy. I’ll make a good product in America, and pay the people enough that they can buy the product. If every business owner automatically had his viewpoint on well-paid workers benefit everyone, I’d be a lot more Libertarian. But they do not. What’s hurting America, as Robert Reich and others have pointed out, is the businesses here have NO allegience to America. They are looking to emerging markets in the east and Latin America. Places that can buy their products. So the whole idea that paying American workers more means they’ll spend more on their products is losing ground with them. Again, they don’t care. It’s not their nature. Profit and pleasing share holders is all that matters. Those who work for them are necessary evils. Parasites to be shed or treated as cheaply as possible to go back to their prime directive. Profit.

‘Human” does not denote race.

I lived in Indiana, but no more.

Dick Armey should live in Indiana, because it’s full of dicks- right wing dicks.

Teabaggers to me are a compelling argument in favor of abortion.

Thank God the old coot’s rockets generally don’t have warheads.

Re the ads for these pills:

I am 56 years old. If I had a hard-on that lasted over 4 hours I wouldn’t call my doctor- I’d rejoice!

For the record, I don’t believe in any of these pills.

Republican problem – they are morons on social issues.
Democratic problem – they are morons on government issues.

Can we get a party that is socially progressive, but wants limited government?

I’m with you on this one Dave. The well known, rich white boy taking advantage of the poor black maid. For all intents and purposes rape.

Conservatives always condemn unprotected sex (like they have any right to judge in the first place!) yet they are all for abstinence only education which conveniently leaves out teaching kids about sexual health and contraception. Moreover, not all abortions are due to unprotected sex. Birth control is not 100% and it fails on people every single day. I myself have a son because of contraceptive failure.
The argument that women use abortion as birth control is outrageous. What woman (let alone teenager) would choose to fork out $500 for a possibly traumatic, definitely horrible experience for her body as a means of contraception? It is not exactly the easy choice. I say get your laws out of our wombs. Period. It isn’t up to these people to make a decision that could affect or burden entire families and/or the rest of society having to support them. Its up to the women. It also isn’t a decision for them to make whether or not an unwanted child be brought into this world who, for example, grows up into a troubled teen who commits arson for attention.
Its not just irresponsible women seeking abortions. Its women in their 40s who don’t think its even safe to give birth, its happily married women who already have responsibility for the family they’ve created, its raped women, its teens who’d be thrown out of their houses otherwise, its women who have very legitimate health reasons for not carrying out a pregnancy, its women who have serious genetic disorders and do not wish to pass that on to a child who will not live, etc…Its difficult decisions that our nation’s women are intelligent and responsible enough to make!
Where is the compassion in this country?!

No, actually a majority of abortions are performed in the first trimester (a majority before or by week 6) for elective reasons. A majority (96%) happen within the first trimester and is NOT traumatic for women. I mean, give me a break? Also a majority of abortions happen from contraceptive failure (77%) than not using anything. I dont get it, are you rpo-choice or anti?

lol, john, yeah dont have unprotected sex with your rapist!I Also, dont understand your flagrant hypocrisy here; why is it okay to (using your understanding) “murder” a baby simply because it was conceived out of rape. According to you theres always adoption and it doesnt justify killing an innocent human being simply because of the horrible way it was conceived. I also wonder how you’d go about enforcing that? Would you require a conviction or simply a report to be filed (which could lead to false rape reports)? Also these allowances in places like Brazil (where its illegal except in cases of rape/incest or death not health) dont make it available to women even though technically it’s allowed because they have narrow constrictions on it. A silly pipe dreamer and pro-life hypocrite. At least be consistent with your zealotry.

I guess you didnt read the flagrant hypocrisy of being FOR killing of innocent “babies” as long as they were conceived out of rape/incest but not for elective (no aborion is convenient). I mean whats it matter how it was conceived, its still a baby right and why kill it simply because it was conceived horribly? You also didnt read about the impossibility of carrying that out without either a conviction (which may never happen and would take too long) or a rape file (which could lead to false rape complaints).

“Every single one of these monsters wants the govenment monitoring EVERY SINGLE ONE of these pregnancies to full term then “PooF”..they don’t care anymore – at all – ever..”

Yeah, then according to Republicans they become “leeches” on the country.

Def not. Theyre even crazier in person. Also the poster is right on the money!

How many want to make a bet all these “pro-life” advocates (like Terry Randall is suspected of) being complete hypocrites and would either supported or encouraged their family member such as a daughter having an abortion or has had an abortion?

You MUST be joking. Because it’s in the first trimester it’s not traumatic? Do you know what is done to a woman’s body when she has an abortion? Have you ever had the BAD pap smear? Oh, I’m sure you haven’t, since you’re a dude aren’t you? Well, let me tell you how much that hurts; no prostate exam could ever frigging compare. It’s literally feels like someone is scraping out a little chunk of your insides. And the cramping afterwards; that will make you curl up on a ball and want to die.

That’s just for the second pap smear (after the first one comes up questionable), so what do you imagine a D&C feels like? Even the morning after pill often causes incredible cramping (based on the documented side effects), because it basically kicks in the worst period you’ve ever had in your life.

And that’s just the physical trauma.And once again, if you imagine that a woman has to be showing to be emotionally impacted by an abortion, you’ve never conversed with any women who’ve had them.

You will be hard pressed to find many women in this country (statistically) who’ve had more than one abortion in their lifetimes. It never has been treated like just a ‘form of birth control’. Just because it might be happening with a handful of crack mothers in slums somewhere doesn’t mean you have any business applying that to the bulk of the female population.

Hope that all 78 are also against homosexuality and infidelity a la C Street house.

Agreed! No one points out that their abortion views are more in line with Afghanistan and Iraq than modern day America or the rest of the west. Afghanistan and Iraq both do not allow abortion except to save her life and even that is under certain restrictions.

Are all of these 78 people men? I m sure most are. If they were raped and forced to have a baby I think the opinion would be quite different.

Nope. I’m a woman and if youre going to claim that “trauma” refers to physical pain then childbirth is incrementally worse. Her uterus is scraped out-duh. Also the abortion experience differs by women. Some women report feeling no pain (as has been documented by many blogs by women whove had abortions as well as studies) and some women report feeling pain. However that does not justify taking that choice away. Much like pap smears it differs among women an dthe quality of the doctor (for example I have never had a bad pap smear. My doctor ios also good and a woman so maybe that helps). Emotional trauma is not caused by the abortion. Thats a stupid claim to make and is completely unverifiable as only 10% (same as those whove given birth) report regretting their abortion (usually due to pressure to have one against their will, a history of drug/mental illness or strong religious affiliation). If someone chooses to become a christian and chooses to believe that their abortion is wrong then it is not the abortion but the belief that is causing it. And a D & C is for second trimester abortions, is usually used exclusively for medical reasons and in that case she is sedated and put uinder anaesthesia. You also exaggerate the plan B pill as it CAN cause cramping and again this differs among women. Quit with your anti myths. You have either lied or exaggerated in your response.

“Just because it might be happening with a handful of crack mothers in slums somewhere doesn’t mean you have any business applying that to the bulk of the female population”

FYI, this is also very judgemental and abusive. These arent ‘crack’ mothers in some slums in some cases their woman in middle class homes who live with abusive men who force pregnancy onto them and then force them to have abortions. In other cases its simply bad luck and contraceptive failure can happen more than once as well as some womens bodies simply like being pregnant.

They also dont pay attention to the practical reality that if he’s not convicted of raping her then he can have adoption veto rights. If theres no conviction (and only 21 states specifically allow for denial of paternity rights if he’s convicted of rape and conceiving of a baby through rape) he can deny her the ability to give the child up for adoption. I didnt learn about this until it happened to one of my moms friends daughter (whew!). She had a friends w/benefits with a guy and ended up pregnant, chose to have a baby and all along he promised he would sign the consent form (since a child can only be given for adoption if BOTH consent in all 50 states), that is until she had the baby and it went home with the adopted parents. He refused to sign the papers and now she has to raise a kid she didnt want nor feel prepared for!Last I heard sh was 19 and smoked alot of dope, is depressed and the kids grandparents raise the kid.

Doesnt and isnt working for Phillipines, Dominican Republic, Malta, Chile, Nicaragua, ect. Theyre all imprisoned by religion and some celibate male pedo priests.

I also never understood why since homosexual sex never ends up with pregnancies?

howie,
LOL, loved it!

John, are you aware that if you take a birth control pill late by even a few hours it lowers how effective the contraception is? Are you aware that taking antibiotics while on birth control cancels it out completely? Are you aware that condoms break quite often? Are you aware that you can get pregnant in 30 seconds of intercourse?

So for example, a woman is on birth control but had an infection and was taking antibiotics. She’s finally feeling better and her partner comes over and they start to get hot and heavy, he goes in, and immediately they realize that even though she’s on the pill they shouldn’t do it without a condom. She can get pregnant. I don’t believe that the government has the right to force her into keeping that baby that she was very obviously NOT trying to have.

i had an abortion in the first trimester, with the pills they give you, by choice, and it was still emotionally traumatic. It took me a solid two years to fully recover.

Any type of blanket statement around abortion is short sighted and will inevitably be wrong for a portion of people.

If a woman can not control her own biological destiny, she is not free, period.

As I said, THEIR definition.

Abortion on demand and without apology.

Don’t like it, don’t get one.

Case closed.

Most women experience relief after an abortion. And study after study shows there’s no long term mental suffering/ depression for women who get abortions.

Exactly!

No, that doesnt make sense for it to be ‘emotionally traumatizing.’ Unless you think its murder then again that doesnt come from the abortion but your own belief that you think its murder. The other way is if somehow you were in an abusive relationship and you didnt really want to do it but then again that came from lack of choice not the choice to have one. Also even that doesnt make sense unless you think its murder. I’ve heard that the RU-486 pill though causes for some women really bad freakin cramps. Maybe you shouldve gone the surgical route. I would like newer methods that are more painfree to be developed (+ newer BC methods that arent so hormonal for women). If I were a billonaire….

Of course there are no problems with the entire western world forcing boys who are raped to pay child support to their rapists.

The Republicans want big government, they just want to put it in my uterus, Unfortunately my uterus isn’t big enough for their government + a fetus.

Studies show that 65% or so of women who have an abortion WERE using birth control and for one reason or another, it failed. The other 35%? Probably the victims of the abstinence only sex ‘education’ that is rampant in the U.S.

Thank you for your quote – I am reposting it to my FB page.

The facts are being distorted as usual. Lets all think for ourselves, and not follow like a puppy dog.

If you look at the link, it says the Republicans…

Think a mother should have the legal right to an abortion if her baby
1. was conceived through rape or incest;
2. has a handicap;
3. has a genetic defect;
4. may threaten the health of the mother.

I want to say that I wish people could see an unplanned child as something else rather than trophy or badge or reminder of an incident, but at the same time I can’t tell someone that they have to see it any other way than they are free to see it.

As a woman, who votes, my feelings are this, it’s a child not choice. It sickens me in this day and age that people still think that it’s okay to kill a human being in the name of convenience b/c a lot of abortions are done b/c it’s inconvenient to have a child.

Sorry duplicate post.

As a woman who votes, I have this to say on the matter, it’s a child, not a choice. I find it appalling that some women choice convenience of a human beings life. A good portion of abortions are performed not b/c the woman has been raped, but b/c it’s not convenient to have a child. Package it however you want, it’s still a human being being killed.

The Libertarians would sorta fall under that request.

=== popurls.com === popular today…

yeah! this story has entered the popular today section on popurls.com…

Exactly. Likely most of them also oppose sex education (except abstinence education, which is ignorance, not education) and easily available contraception. A certain musical production featuring Michael Palin and Terry Jones comes to mind.

I hate that such a terrible thing as rape would happen to any woman. The punishment should be swift and sure, but killing the other victim of the crime would be a travesty.

Only in the West are people able to equate killing an unwanted baby with freedom – maybe they should lock you in a cell in China for 20 years hard labor for being a Christian, or mutilate your genitals so you can never orgasm, or stone you to death for walking outside of your house with a man not related to you, or say to prove you weren’t rapped you must have three male witnesses.
Women around the world are brutalized daily – and you can equate an 18 yr old knocked up at a party trying to hide it from her parents to true freedom.
You disgust me.

Devil’s advocate – where’s the compassion for an unborn child who never did anything wrong to anyone at 4 months inside the womb?

Real classy – wishing rape on an innocent person. Ever been raped or known someone who has? Jackass. You shouldn’t be allowed to breathe wishing things like that on others.

I pity the fool who questions Mr. T’s judgement.

Can we lock up your mom/daughter/wife too, to see what you would do?
Don’t wish things like that on people – it detracts from the real issue here and gives anti-abortion people fodder. Every time someone reads an idiotic statement like that it turns them off. If you want to win, first you win people’s minds…

I’ve seen very few people on here make cases for abortion on demand – but I’ve seen a whole lot of fruitcakes giving Sean Hannity fodder for his show. Wishing people would be raped – you should be ashamed to look in the mirror.

These people are scary. They want to take us back to the dark ages. Come on America. Wake up. Vote Democratic, it’s the only sane choice.

These people are scary. They want to take us back to the dark ages. Come on America. Wake up. Vote Democratic, it’s the only sane choice.

“maybe they should lock you in a cell in China for 20 years hard labor for being a Christian, or mutilate your genitals so you can never orgasm, or stone you to death for walking outside of your house with a man not related to you, or say to prove you weren’t rapped you must have three male witnesses.”

That was what you wrote ten minutes ago. Way to be hypocritical.

No, many people in other countries such as Asia have abortion as well. Youre anti-abortion rights views are more in line with all the countries that treat women like crap. If you dont like America and the fact that we actually have science not distorted by religion then go to Saudi Arabia. I also wonder with amusement how in the world do you figure that we’d be able to carry out the abortion in the case of rape exception. You’d need either a conviction or a file in order to be able to do that and dont be surprised if reports of rape go up instantaneously. Big on empty rhetoric but completely void of practicality and humanity. You put a zygote above an actual woman. Even Terry Schavio wasnt considered alive in spite of the fact that she had an entire body. Now why in the world would you give equal status to someone that isnt even conscious nor yet in any form of a body. I mean a freakin fruit fly has more human DNA than an embryo. You confuse potential with actual development. You have no case thats its the exact same thing as killing a fully formed human being and you pay no attention to the extremes over women the govt would have to go to in order to imprison women. Also incredibly stupid coming from a guy.

No, many people in other countries such as Asia have abortion as well. Youre anti-abortion rights views are more in line with all the countries that treat women like crap. If you dont like America and the fact that we actually have science not distorted by religion then go to Saudi Arabia. I also wonder with amusement how in the world do you figure that we’d be able to carry out the abortion in the case of rape exception. You’d need either a conviction or a file in order to be able to do that and dont be surprised if reports of rape go up instantaneously. Big on empty rhetoric but completely void of practicality and humanity. You put a zygote above an actual woman. Even Terry Schavio wasnt considered alive in spite of the fact that she had an entire body. Now why in the world would you give equal status to someone that isnt even conscious nor yet in any form of a body. I mean a freakin fruit fly has more human DNA than an embryo. You confuse potential with actual development. You have no case thats its the exact same thing as killing a fully formed human being and you pay no attention to the extremes over women the govt would have to go to in order to imprison women. Also incredibly stupid coming from a guy.

That is just one of the options in the questionnaire. If you look at the results below it shows an overwhelming amount of them answered with #1 Pro-life without discrimination and not #4 Thinks a mother should have the legal right to an abortion if her baby

1. was conceived through rape or incest;
2. has a handicap;
3. has a genetic defect;
4. may threaten the health of the mother.

So no distortion from what I can see.

That is just one of the options in the questionnaire. If you look at the results below it shows an overwhelming amount of them answered with #1 Pro-life without discrimination and not #4 Thinks a mother should have the legal right to an abortion if her baby

1. was conceived through rape or incest;
2. has a handicap;
3. has a genetic defect;
4. may threaten the health of the mother.

So no distortion from what I can see.

That is just one of the options in the questionnaire. If you look at the results below it shows an overwhelming amount of them answered with #1 Pro-life without discrimination and not #4 Thinks a mother should have the legal right to an abortion if her baby

1. was conceived through rape or incest;
2. has a handicap;
3. has a genetic defect;
4. may threaten the health of the mother.

So no distortion from what I can see.

4 months?A majority are aborted by the embryo stage and within three months. Crack open a science book rather than get your info from some celibate male pedo priest whose religion only in 1990 admitted copernicus and galileo were right. I mean your pic makes you reeeeal credible. You look like some ignorant Ned Flanders.

Yup we all have and those women were thankful they had a CHOICE!Going through a pregnancy that resulted from rape would be like being raped all over again (as described by those whove been pregnant after a rape). Would you lock her in prison if she had an abortion? They do in Mexico, ect. Youre the only insensitive thug here.

I know! I love the hypocrisy. Like forcing a woman to bear the child of her rapist and risk potentially sharing custody with him is somehow sensitive to her? Not to mention but I wonder of a building was on fire and before he ran out he could either save the 4 month old baby in the crib or the 100 cryogenically preserved embryos which one he would choose? Anything but the cryogenically preserved embryos would display huge hypocrisy because hwo wouldnt want to save 100 “babies?” I mean 100 babies when your hands are full is better than simply one, yes? He’d come out and the parents would ask ‘wheres my baby-did you get my baby,’ and he’d go no, sorry I couldnt because my hands were full saving these hundred ones and then he’d lift the frozen vessel – and the parents would strangle him to death.

“A good number of abortions are performed not b/c the woman has been raped”?

So how many have been performed b/c the woman *was* raped?

My guess is 0.

ALL abortions are performed because the fetus is undesirable for a variety of reasons. Inconvenience, financial difficulties, mental trauma, danger to the woman’s life…

On what grounds do you judge the morality of some other woman’s life choice?

And a choice is precisely that, forcing a pregnancy is NOT a choice. Choice is what Bristol Palin exercised. It is also what Jaycee Duggard was forced to exercise.

Great for them.

What is your proposal for a penalty if you call it killing? The death penalty?

Theyre already trying to. If they had to deal with it on a personal level they’d change their mind pretty quickly. Politicians get to make these horrific proclomations because they have networks and money and no doubt if their daughter were raped she’d be able to obtain a safe abortion even if it were illegal. Just the rest of us have to live by this heinous double standard. Even Laura Bush didnt/doesnt believe abortion should be outlawed. She shouldve been president.

Advice for any woman: dont have it off with matt powell. Either he’s not having sex because he’s some ned flanders ab only jesus freak or he’s having sex and thinks he owns your body.

As a Christian, and a firm believer in pro-life, I’d first like to apologize for any miscommunication we “right-wing” individuals might have conveyed. My belief is that we haven’t shown proper love to these individuals as I’m detecting so much hatred in these comments. This furthermore means we haven’t shown proper love to these mothers. While my heart breaks for any expectant mother who might find herself in a position where she is bearing an unplanned child due to rape, a life is still a life!

What a burden it might be to bear a child for 9 months that was brought about by an unfortunate conception, I cannot imagine, but the wrong of murdering a baby, a child, a LIFE doesn’t wipe out that first wrongdoing of a rape. She endured something awful, but it’s the same in my eyes — she had no choice in the matter of getting raped. Now she’s giving an unborn baby boy or girl no choice in being born or killed.

The bottom line here usually comes down to is it part of the woman’s body, or a seperate life. I assure you that if you do scientific research, the life is formed immediately. Heartbeats, fingers, life is there from the moment of conception.

Conservatism according to the Republican Tea Party is *social* conservatism. They want govt. to be big enough to enforce social mores, fund wars, run massive deficits, deregulate so as to get “govt. out of our lives”, impose which orifice one can insert or receive a sexual organ in the privacy of their homes, but only applicable if you are of a homosexual orientation, and be treated as a forgiven sinner when caught committing crimes

No, Democrats are not much different. Ben Nelson ring a bell?

Democrats are impotent. True, the Republican Tea Party is worse, but the Democrats are not the solution.

As a non-Christian I reject your characterization and note that Christianity, through its history has committed despicable atrocities to be considered in any discussion as a possible voice of reason on moral matters.

And your science education needs works. Heartbeats do not exist at conception, since there is not heart formed at conception. Neither are fingers.

No. Just, no.

Not anymore, since the movement has been hijacked by the Koch bros. They are now corporatists.

I don’t think you’re a woman. I don’t think you have any right to be making this judgement. And you certainly do nothing to legitimately rebut any of the other salient issues she brought up. It’s easy to just brush these things off by using the now-trite “fail”; it’s entirely different to actually consider the problem space from a different angle and offer compelling discourse.

Uncalled for. Not even if their wives, moms, and adult daughters endorse the same principles vociferously.

Sean Hannity does not need any fodder. He is dishonest enough to make it up; why would he waste time having anyone scour blogs for that?

I’m a child of rape, I am just blessed my mother made the choice to keep me. She has never once made me feel unworthy of being here. I love you MOM. The choice a woman makes though is her OWN. She tells me to this day how proud of me and how much she loves me, but the choice she made isn’t the choice, many could or would want to make……………

I never said that there weren’t abortions due to rape. I just think that abortion supporters tend to only mention those to make it sound like abortions are only performed in dire circumstance when that’s just not the case.

What about the child’s choice? Oh wait they don’t get one.

Aren’t you glad that you live in a country where your loving mother had a choice? In many countries, they do not, and the mother is often not so loving when forced with the pregnancy.

>>The bottom line here usually comes down to is it part of the woman’s body, or a seperate life.<<

No, it doesn’t.

The bottom line comes down to, if somebody else’s life is dependent on the use of my body or its parts, am I required to give over those parts for that duration.

Why shouldn’t my uterus be as protected as anybody’s kidneys, or bone marrow, or liver? (otehr than, of course, the obvious fact that men also have kidneys and bone marrow and livers…)

“At least 78 GOP candidates would force women to bear rapists’ babies.”

But at least 178 Democratic Party candidates have voted or would vote for more money for wars, Wall Street bailouts, and to slash social programs (Remember Bill Clinton reforming welfare as we know it?) so as to ensure that the survivors of rape would be forced into poverty and be unable to feed and care for the kids they were forced to bear. That would make it easier for the rapists to gain custody and rape the kids too.

Put away your micromieters and electron microscopes. It isn’t which candidates or parties are less evil, the problem is people who keep voting for evil, oligarchy by whatever name it takes.

Every election season I have to endure the hundreds of party hacks trying to terrify people into voting for an oligarchy that doesn’t care about them, so as to legitimize a corrupt fascist system.

Regardless of what they say or promise, and regardless of which party they belong to, no country club millionaire in Washington, and nobody naive enough to think they can bring about change by playing by Washington rules, has your interests at heart.

If a candidate is rich and you’re not, they won’t represent you.

If a candidate belongs to a political party, they’ll be too busy trying to get elected and reelected, to grow their party and to try to gain more power within the system, to have time to try to represent you even if they wanted to and could. But they don’t want to and can’t.

Middle class people who vote for rich people, deserve to become poor people.

Poor people who vote for rich people, deserve to become homeless, unemployed, desperately poor people.

This isn’t “one nation” as the D.C. rally in D.C. is trying to make people think. Even they admit we are two nations, the two 2% who own everything, and the rest of us who live paycheck to paycheck, if we’re lucky enough to still have a job.

Anyone in the 98% who votes for anyone in the top 2%, is voting against their own best interests and deserves the kick in the teeth that they’ll get for their trouble. The rich do not love you. The rich Republicans don’t love you. The rich Democrats don’t love you. Any Libertarians, Greens, or independents who can afford to take enough time off work to run for office, won’t represent you. And once they’re elected, you have no way to hold them accountable.

“The Republicans want to destroy you.” –Democratic Party hack.

“The Democrats want to destroy the country.” –Republican Party hack.

“If we had power, it wouldn’t corrupt us like it does everyone else.” –Third Party hacks.

“Don’t vote–it only encourages ‘em.” — Old WWW slogan.

“If voting could change anything, they’d make it illegal.” — Emma Goldman.

“If you vote, you can’t complain.” –George Carlin

“Boycott the war: Don’t vote!” –me

Pregnancy can kill a woman, so having to carry and bear a rapist’s child is tantamount to risking my life so that the demon seed can live. I believe any woman should have the right to decide if she’s willing to accept that risk and not have you or the government force her to carry the unwanted product of a crime. Luckily for you, you’ll never have to be burdened by such a decision, will you?

We don’t allow children a “choice” in anything else they do until they mature, nor are they even remotely capable of making such a “choice.” Why attribute something to them they’re incapable of doing?

“Only in the West are people able to equate killing an unwanted baby with true freedom”

That’s because we “in the West” don’t subjugate women and relegate them to the status of incubator when they get pregnant like other societies do. Perhaps you need to refamiliarize yourself with the word “freedom,” since you clearly lack an understanding of its true meaning.

Life as defined by you and many others I’ve talked to seems to be whether or not there is a heartbeat or some other equally dubious “science”. I tend to think human life being more attached to cognition or the ability to live outside the mother.

BOTH of our opinions are just that, OPINIONS. They are most definitely not science. The point at which one believes life (as a valuable sacrosanct thing) begins is arbitrary and relies not on science but on ones preconceived postulates.

You for example believe that an invisible, intangible, omnipotent creator (who BTW commanded Israel to commit genocide on more than one occasion) imbues life or a soul into a fetus at the moment of conception. I don’t have any reason to believe any of this and tend to look at life as something that the human race and even the church has had a pretty malleable appreciation for. As an affluent society we have the luxury of thinking of unborn fetuses as potential life and worrying about the implications. The problem is that there is no compromise here.

Given your postulate that God imbues a soul at conception you must logically look at the fetus as living and therefor having rights to life. Any ending of that by another person would logically fall under the definition murder given your set of beliefs. The mothers rights to her biological choice are totally meaningless against a backdrop of the sovereignty of human life.

On the other hand you can’t prove that your God imbues life at conception or even that he exists. Nor can I disprove these concepts. I believe as most pro choicers do that there is no soul and probably no God and therefor the choice to value life is left up to the social discourse.

The concept that the value of human life is something that we as humans must arbitrarily decide is, I imagine, abhorrent to a person in your position. Likewise the concept that we as human beings should make ANY collective decision based on mythology and superstition created thousands of years ago by people who believed sickness was demons and women were chattel is abhorrent to me. So there we are…

HAHAHAHHAHAH!!! Nice one Jingles. xD

Anti version of love:

Forced pregnancy, birth and potentialy sharing custody with your rapist

(if that isnt a recipe for a back alley abortion I dont know what is-but then again the survivor isnt in the womb so shes not worthy of life, right?)

and FYI I’d want my mom to have a choice if I’m born even under consent nonetheless without it! My preferance would actually be that I’d prefer to be aborted rather than born if I was conceived out of rape but its every womans CHOICE!

” Heartbeats, fingers, life is there from the moment of conception. ”

What bull! Obviously you got this from your re-revised Bible according to National Right to Life and not Department of Health or the Gynoncology Association. And there is actual data behind this being wrong according to peer reviewed research and science done by top health practitioners. Dont let them make science an ‘opinion.’

I most certainly do think children are capable of making choices. They do it all the time. Some adults tend to let children get away with doing the wrong thing by saying that they’re a child and they don’t know what they;re doing, but still they made a choice. And just b/c someone’s an adult doesn’t mean they always make the right choice.

So you believe *you* should be allowed to make that choice for them, because they’re too stupid to make the “right” choice as you see it? Is that what I am to take from your comment?

What a distorted version of pregnancy they have. Whether by force or accident she is nothing but a vessel. The zygote, blastocyst or fetus apparently is the only one worthy of humanity while for the raped woman she gets a disingenous and unconvincing ‘well, shucks that sure is bad and my heart breaks,….but….’ I mean how many of these anti women would really after being raped give birth and also risk sharing custody of their child with the rapist? If he’s not convicted he has custody rights (and thats only for the 21 states that have laws that explicitly say if a child is conceived out of rape and he’s convicted he doesnt get custody) and can deny her adoption rights. Something tells me somehow they would make moral ‘exceptions’ for their cases but continue to hiss and judge those ‘other’ women who have abortions. Love the christian hypocrisy.

You are not freakin pro-choice! What a joke! Youre a douchebag prick who thinks women are nothing but incubators. Even the societies you listed dont allow women to have abortion rights, so yes the assault on abortion rights is indeed an assault on freedom. These activists want women living like Iran, Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan in regards to abortion rights (and a number of other things).Trying seeing something not from your prick dude.Pregnancy and birth is not some ‘lil inconveience or a drive-through window. You need to grow up.

I love how stupid you are writing this and then claiming up above that youre pro-choice! U R a loony!

No I’m not saying that I should make the choice. It’s not about choices, it’s about a person’s life. Why is that if a person shoots a pregnant woman and her child dies, he’s charged with murder? Pro-abortionists don’t believe a child is alive until they’re born so how could that man kill something that not alive?

I’m not saying it’s okay to shoot a pregnant woman b/c it’s not. I’m just saying you can’t have it both ways.

A majority of women who have abortions already have one child. I hate it when I have to read some anti response by some judgmental and ignorant poster who claims that these women arent using BC or are irresponsible people. Its so off its unbelievable!If they took away their judgment (alot of them are also hypocritical xristians too) they probably wouldnt be against abortion rights. Alot of them simply think pregnancy is a way to punish women for sex, especially when they erroneously think the sex is irresponsible. I mean, if 49% of pregnancies in this country are unplanned then I dont know how they can say its NOT contraceptive failure especially since a majority of these women were using some form of BC when they got pregnant. Unsurprisingly antis arent for funding any sort of sex research for creating new BC forms that are even more effective and less finicky and hormonal than the ones we have now.

Unfortunate conception? What a downplaying euphemism that is, Ginger.
Rape is a criminal assault against the most private and personal of a woman’s body.
Pregnancy following rape is a sentence of punishment for the woman, not for the assaulter.
If she is forced to carry a pregnancy she abhors, her body is hostage for nine months and her psyche is also under sentence for the rest of her life, whether she is the active parent or gives the child up for adoption. There are a few fortunate children of rape whose mothers and families can rise beyond that beginning, but that’s not the common experience of such children.
And no, rape and abortion under such circumstances are not equal, not interchangeable. The wrong done the woman is far greater than her choice, should she make such choice, to abort a fetus.
BTW: classic Christian teaching – not the mush that you are spewing – teaches that the fetus is not ‘alive’ until its quickening in the womb: that’s at about 4 – 5 months’ gestation. Nor are ‘heartbeats’ and ‘fingers’ there at gestation: only a fertilized egg — of which about 20% are ejected from the womb before implantation.

Actually, I don’t know a single pro-choice person who thinks that there is nothing “alive” about a fetus.

Yeah, there’s some bickering back and forth about “when is it a person”, but really all of that is irrelevant.

Even if a fetus were granted full human rights under the law, there would still be no rational reason to keep women from having abortions. Why? Because your rights end where my rights begin. I have the right to bodily autonomy. No one may decide when, how or who gets to use my body, my blood or my organs. And that extends to a fetus.

If you think that we should be legally able to force women to carry a fetus to term under the law, then you are by default supposing that a fetus has MORE human rights than the woman carrying it.

Maybe you find abortion morally repugnant, and that’s all well and good. I’m not here to change your mind. But it’s not your place to make the call on compromising a human being’s bodily autonomy.

I can’t force you to give me a kidney, even if I’m dying. You can’t force me to give up my uterus/blood/organs/health, even if a fetuses life depends on it. It’s super awesome of you if you’d like to go ahead and let me use it… but no one: not your doctor, not a judge, not a priest, will force you to do it. It’s YOUR CHOICE.

This is first class hypocrisy ,most people, republicans included don’t give a fly fuck about fetus. Individuals who undergo abortion may have “feelings” about the procedure and its implication, but life goes on….

Human are not even smart enough to care about their own,expecting them to feel emotionally attached to fetus, is absurd.

Those neo medieval retarded who wish to criminalize abortion may do so, but they also have to make sexual intercourse without condom, an offense punishable by death.

“Why is that if a person shoots a pregnant woman and her child dies, he’s charged with murder?”

Why is it people like you are too dense to understand the simple answer to that question? Are you really, truly that ignorant? There’s no “both ways” to it. One involves a person with another life growing inside of it (and all of the attendant risks that entails, physical, emotional, short term, and long term) making a decision to divest themselves of that risk, and the other involves someone external to that situation killing two independent lives. The fact that one constitutes two murders is wholly irrelevant to the former situation.

I don’t think there’s much “miscommunication” here. I for one understand very well your position, and it scares me. Seriously. You do realise, don’t you, how risky pregnancy is for the mother-to-be? You’re happy to let a rapist put a woman at risk of an ectopic, of (pre-) eclampsia, of a C-section or even just an episiotomy, of post-partum haemhorrage, of postnatal depression? That choice is the woman’s and no-one else’s.

The irony is that pro-choice people wouldn’t force you to abort a pregnancy caused by rape, but you would force a woman to go through with the pregnancy, no matter how much distress and medical risk it caused you. How inhuman you are.

BTW, you seriously need to read up on embryology – unless you can explain how there could be a heartbeat and fingers in the single cell of a newly-fertilised zygote, of course. I could do with a laugh.

You’ve never been raped, have you Ginger?
And what’s more – you’re only looking at part of the extremist equation. You and the other Republicans on this list would not only force these women to serve as incubators for the spawn of their rapists – BUT – if the fetus endangered the woman’s life, you’d let her die rather than abort.

What a good Christian you are!

So, Maddy – if your daughter were raped, would you force her to give birth to the child of her rapist? If the fetus endangered her life, would you let her DIE rather than abort?

Spoken like a man who doesn’t have to worry about getting raped.

If men and boys don’t want to be fathers, they should abstain from sex until marriage.

Sorry, Ginger, but your definition of “life” as beginning at conception simply doesn’t hold up to any scientific scrutiny worthy of the name. And what would be your and your cohorts’ position on the status of frozen embryos, deposited in a fertility bank for possible future use? Are the depositors and bank operators committing torture by freezing this group of cells you characterize as a “life”? I think you probably are sincere in your beliefs, but they seem to be at variance with, or detached from reality. It cannot be a congruent position to insist on a rape victim being forced to bear a child so conceived, with any known version of genuine Christianity, despite the insistence of some of the medievalists in the hierarchy of the Catholic Church.

In the final analysis, it’s really about a basically patriarchal society insisting on exerting power and control over its female members, keeping them subordinate/subjugated — despite the well-intentioned beliefs of some to the contrary, that is, in fact, the bottom line. It’s the same motivation among the Abrahamic religions, and many other varieties of belief, as the oppressive mores around sexuality in general and female sexuality in particular. NOTHING terrifies a macho-type mysogynist so profoundly as a sexually liberated, self-aware and self-sufficient female.

So if I am pregnant I am suddenly an incubator with no say in the matter who can just deal with it because you *believe* something. You will not provide money to hospitalize me. You will not pay for my extensive therapy to get over being raped. You will not pay to help me raise the child, but boy are you there to tell me what I can and cannot do with my body.

And seriously – how do you know how pro-choice people think other than what your pastor and Fox news have told you?

I think you’re making a logical fallacy here…the discussion is about those whose anti-abortion posture extends to opposing abortion UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, specifically including pregnancies occurring as the result of rape or incest, or those which endanger the life and/or health of the mother. The issue is not “a good portion of abortions” or the reasons therefor, but rather is supposed to be focussed on those sought in cases of rape, incest, or endangering the life/health (including mental health) of the mother. Thus, your comment is largely irrelevant to the discussion, however well-meaning .

Yeah but Ben Nelson describes himself as a Jeffersonian democrat.

FYI: Actually, he just doesn’t have to worry about getting pregnant from a rape.

You have no clue what type of psychological turmoil pregnant rape victims go through. Some of them that do have the kid feel estranged from the child because every time they’re around the child they are brought back to that horrifying rape moment.
Ignorant, uneducated people like you Ginger are what truly make this country a bad place to be. You substitute logic for archaic, outdated and otherwise useless religious dogma.

If an organism cannot live outside the womb, it IS NOT AN INDEPENDENT BEING! A single-celled organism isn’t a child. Until that organism gestates for a considerable amount of time, and at which stage it becomes viable, the woman involved in that gestation has control over her own body. Not everyone will opt for an abortion, but for those who do, their decision mostly comes from a lot of pain and anguish inside them.

There IS no “pro-life” group–there is only the “anti-choice” movement. Do you feel extrea special that you would have control over every woman in the world who faces that decision? Do you really love making people carry a fetus and continue to suffer emotional suffering? It is people in the world like you who want to force their mores on everyone else, but who, at the same time, allow children to be brought up by abusive parents, who allow incest and rape, and physical abuse by parents. It is people like you who spurn potential parents adopting non-white babies from other countries. People like you should look to clean up their own families before trying to control people who don’t have your srt of “values.” It’s very simple–take care of the babies from around the world who are already here first–if someone who wants to ban abortion can’t show reverence for all those children, they either should shut their mouths permanently on the subject, or walk the walk and help those children already born to find loving and caring homes.

As usual, another person who spouts off crap but doesn’t want to know the horrible stories from around the world where children have been orphaned and really need help.

Why do Republicans hate women?

I feel nothing but repugnance toward the pro-life religious nuts who continue to insist that I, a non theist live according to their belief in a sky god or the talking snake in the mythical garden of eden.
Religion, has no place in politics or government. So says the first amendment.
We, are free to practice religion or NOT.

I am a woman, if I choose to abort for whatever reason, I will do so.
sincerely,
FS

If abortion in all cases, including rape, is made illegal, consider the number of unwanted babies that will be born. Only so many would be adopted. As for the rest, they end up warehoused in overcrowded ophanages or worse. So, let me ask those who are so against abortion if they are willing to put their money where their mouths are. Are you personally willing to adopt at least six of these babies, if not more, support them and raise them to adulthood? If you aren’t, you are a liar and a hypocrite, and according to your Bible, damned to hell. Be sure to take along some suntan oil, for it gets hot down there.

It’s all about freedom. If our handlers keep one-half the population pregnant and poor, they are more able to be controlled. If there is no contraception and women go back to having ten or fifteen babies untill they keel over, then a pack of motherless children are also better able to be controlled for slave labor.

So you are OK with male victims of statutory rape – in one instance a ten year old – being forced to pay child support to their adult female rapists? In my country this has happened with the full weight of enforcement from the federal government AND with their administrative support.

I take it then that you also have no problem with women raping little boys?

Why am I not surprised? I’ve been consistently told by women through my lifetime that I should consider myself privileged to have been raped by an adult aunt as a seven year old.

You live up to your nom-de-plume. However I would further dub thee “rape apologist”. It’s obviously OK for some to rape.

It makes no sense to me. Cut funding for welfare, sex education, housing, food, work, and schools – and yet force women to have babies that would require all of these things. That’s like cutting funding for training your military while preparing for a war.

“she had no choice in the matter of getting raped. Now she’s giving an unborn baby boy or girl no choice in being born or killed. ”

To force the mother to suffer through yet ANOTHER thing she has no control over is wrong. And two wrongs do not make a right. The way to show love and compassion to a rape victim is to not punish her further. One would not claim that it is fair to force a woman to share housing with her rapist, and yet there are those who claim it is fair to force a woman to share a CHILD with a rapist. It is cruel.

Looks like it is all about money and control over the female by the patriarchal system.
There is a booming adoption business created by propaganda using needy infertile women and men, so children are needed there as a commodity.
Baby Thief Georgia Tann led the way in USA with this one.

There is one way to chech if these people feel it is all right to rape someone and force them to go through the pregnancy and deliver a baby and raise it- Let them experience rape first hand and see if they still feel the same.
Also , no one has pointed out that bringing a soul onto this planet as a result of violence is unthinkable.

The problem with libertarians is that they depend on everybody being goody-two-shoes with each other. They ignore the fact that a lot of people are greedy pigs with not a shred of decency, altruism or compassion. Some people won’t be fair unless you force them to be so.

God bless them! I hope they all win. Abortion is immoral no matter what the circumstances are and having one after a rape is just heaping a crime on to a crime while leaving the women who had abortions into a life of constantly feeling guilty over what happened. Really, the solution is to show charity to these women not to make them feel like they have a responsibility to murder their own offspring.

Just remember that President Obama was the result of the statutory rape of an underage unmarried girl. If she’d been able to get an abortion under the rape exception, we’d have Hillary Clinton as President. How’s about that! On second thought, I could probably deal with it.

people should get a taste of their own medicine. including you, jackass.

“Statutory rape” does not consider consent, is a completely different circumstance than the rape and incest to which this article and most people responding to it are referring.

You just asked the $64,000,000 question. a partial answer: white men who have been in control forever are no longer front and center. And why any woman would want to deny another woman an abortion, particularly, a woman who is the victim of either rape or incest or both, is beyond me.

“Unsurprisingly antis arent for funding any sort of sex research for creating new BC forms that are even more effective and less finicky and hormonal than the ones we have now.”

You make an excellent point. What bothers me is that a large percentage of these people who are anti-choice are also anti-prevention. Birth control should be a right for everyone. It should be covered by health insurance for those who have insurance, and free for those who cannot afford it. After all viagra is covered under most insurance plans so that old geezer-wheezer crowd can still get it up!

More prevention might just cause a decline in the number of abortions, but then what would the bitchers have to bitch about if every pregnancy were planned and every child wanted!

The age of consent in Hawaii was 16* at the time of statehood. Obama was conceived somewhere around November of 1960, the month his mother turned 18. Congratulations, Ms. Shaw! You have met the qualifications for becoming a researcher for Fux News – or maybe you already are, since you lit your prejudices determine your facts.

*In fact, under certain circumstances, the age of consent in Hawaii can be interpreted to be 14.

The topic is women being forced to bear children. You are attempting to divert the topic, and I’m not going to play your game. Rape is never okay. Ever.

To get back on topic – I take it you’re okay with women being forced to incubate the progeny of rapists. Your sole concern is for boys, apparently.

Catherine Mills, you are absolutely correct on this: It is all about babies as a commodity. The extremsits would want to get in on the adoption business, before it becomes regulated, as it is not very much, at this time, if I am not mistaken.
Also, I am sure you have heard pro adoption (males) say that there are not enough white babies (I have!) who are available for adoption.

Catherine Mills, you are absolutely correct on this: It is all about babies as a commodity. The extremsits would want to get in on the adoption business, before it becomes regulated, as it is not very much, at this time, if I am not mistaken.
Also, I am sure you have heard pro adoption (males) say that there are not enough white babies (I have!) who are available for adoption.

Catherine Mills, you are absolutely correct on this: It is all about babies as a commodity. The extremsits would want to get in on the adoption business, before it becomes regulated, as it is not very much, at this time, if I am not mistaken.
Also, I am sure you have heard pro adoption (males) say that there are not enough white babies (I have!) who are available for adoption.

Heh, heh, you, most likely, have heard of that recent poll, where atheists know more about religion and the bible than christians, esp., catholics.
I esp. love some of the verses in Hosea, Chapter 13, Verse 16, where some god (actually some male power seeker [s]) is/are telling the conquered populace that they had better fall in line and follow the religion of the conquerers: to quote that most violent book – their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up. Huh huh – pro life – riggghhht. That is not the only violent passage in that great ;~}} book, as you may know.

Yeah, I wonder how many – pro lifers- would not want an abortion if they were raped by a black, or a Muslim @ ;~ O

Yeah, heh, heh. . that should be The – Gay Old Party – if you know, as I suspect you do, anything about the repugnant party and its hypocrisies.

Let us not forget, that when abortion was illegal (it almost is now, since access is nearly 0), an abortion was generally, a back ally affair which cost as much as the butchers wanted to charge – and usually was WWWAAAYYY more than $500 – even back then, in the day ~ 1950s and 1960s.
As stated, above, this is all about big $$$ and power, with some wanting to go into the, mostly unregulated, baby selling business (before it becomes more regulated than it is now) otherwise aka adoption.

Agreed. I hate how those opposed to abortion, especially in rape and incest, never even stop to think about how sick it is to force that onto a woman.You dont force it in consent and its even sicker to try and do that when there isnt consent. I also wonder how in the world these anti-woman can possibly say they dont want abortion even in the case of incest and rape. I mean, are they serious? Do they really believe that they would have no problem simply giving birth to their rapists baby and being pregnant as well? Its simply bulls*.

Agreed. I hate how those opposed to abortion, especially in rape and incest, never even stop to think about how sick it is to force that onto a woman.You dont force it in consent and its even sicker to try and do that when there isnt consent. I also wonder how in the world these anti-woman can possibly say they dont want abortion even in the case of incest and rape. I mean, are they serious? Do they really believe that they would have no problem simply giving birth to their rapists baby and being pregnant as well? Its simply bulls*.

Hey, theyre opposed to stem cell research so they also show their hypocrisy in not using those cryogenically preserved embryos either.

Exactly! I also wonder who pays for the birth? Does it come out of her own pocket because its not like theyre likely to find the rapist or get a conviction. What about how this affects the other parts of her life; her kids, her job, her health or her finances? Its simply barbaric that anyone should have to give birth even without complications to a rapists kid nonetheless when there is. Giving birth after rape has got to be like being raped all over again. First shes raped, then from the rape shes forced to be pregnant, forced to give birth and perhaps shes even forced to share custody with him when, if hes not convicted of rape, denies her the right to give the kid up for adoption. Its nothing but force, force, force! Very sick.

Even Jim Bakker admitted that he had never even read the entire Bible until he was in prison. I bet alot of them havent either.

They’d probably conveniently find a Bible passage and “interpret” it to allow it in such cases.

…..that doesnt make sense. I’d WANT to be aborted if I were conceived out of incest.

In regards to shooting a fetus in the womb, thats because essentially youre forcing an abortion on her after shes gone through the CHOSEN hard work of maintaining a pregnancy. That also only applies within the viable month. It wouldnt apply, for example, in the 1st month of a pregnancy. Sometimes I think they also want something added in case a killer is about to get away free they could always bring that up.

Ugh. I was visiting my parents for the weekend and my mother was in church (its an evangelical one though she doesnt agree with it all and shes pro-choice) and a deacon started talking about rape and abortion since its “Life Month” or whatever. Anyways he says that he thought it was murder, that she was a killer and then he says that after his wife was raped (though she wasnt his wife then) she had an abortion and feels guilty because she hears Gods voice in her head all the time. Really sick, my mom was pissed. Some of the other congregants also thought it went too far and that the deacon shouldnt have brought politics into the church. Filth. They should lose their tax exemption.

“They should lose their tax exemption.”

Now this is one thing that I have the biggest problem with. The churches should be taxed just like any other business, and they are businesses. Take a look at the millionare televangelists and their megachurches. They’ve got one of the biggest and crookedest rackets going. They take in millions in donations for doing absolutely nothing, and it’s all tax free. They use their totally brainwashed followers to give them political power through the candidates that that they tell their sheep to vote for. It’s supposed to be illegal for them to use their tax-exempt pulpits for politics, but they get around it through their various “non-church” groups. And some just don’t care–

http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2010-09-26-irs25_ST_N.htm?csp=hf

Boy, THAT’S not creepy at all! A married man has sex with a girl and that’s okay?

Don’t forget making women pay for their own rape kits.. I’d like to show these GOP sleaze balls what rape is like (First Hand).

“As a woman who votes” I notice you did not say as “a woman who has been pregnant”. I am fed up with antichoice people who think women chose abortion as a “convenience”. There are dozens of reasons that women chose to terminate their pregnancies. You do not get to judge their reasons. Besides if a woman chooses to abort because the pregnancy is an inconvenience for her, would you really want her to continue with it? How will she take care of herself and the fetus if she really does not want to be pregnant? She is so shallow and selfish to you because she considered an abortion and yet you want that same person to become a mother? We have enought bad parents in this world. To become pregnant should be the choice.

I’ve been a supporter of abortion since the seventies and, indeed, marched to demonstrate that support on numerous occasions. The primary reason for my support IS the circumstances of girls and women who become pregnant as a consequence of rape. Furthermore that is one of the cornerstone arguments supporting legitimised abortion.

When you say “rape is never okay” you contradict your previous statement. Allow me to remind you. “If men and boys don’t want to be fathers, they should abstain from sex until marriage.” Clearly the rape of a boy by a woman is merely “sex” in your mind. I note you have no words of criticism for the state supporting and enforcing the extortion of victims by their rapists in those circumstances. Instead you criticise the bearer of the message and endeavour to silence that bearer. Your double standard is clear for all to see.

I see both sides of this. I have extensive involvement with my region’s rape crisis and counseling services and also serve as the client and community representative on that organisation’s board of management. I wish to see equivalent protections for all. I don’t base my concern on the gender of the victim or, even more pitifully, the gender of the person who abused them. It’s quite sad that so many do.

Valé equality.

You’re still trying to change the subject. You’re still pretending to read my mind. I am not interested in playing your game.

I’m betting, that no matter what you say you are, you’re a whiny men’s rights guy.

Did she have any choice???
The wreck who was forced to bear me used sometimes such words too, especially when there was a priest or other authoritative figure listening.
The fact was: she could not protect herself, and she could not protect me.
Today there is the word “abuse family”.
In those days it was the UNSPEAKABLE SECRET.
If something came out you were put into one of those Catholic organizantions the media write about now.

[...] it turns out that this election cycle is very different.  In this election cycle,  there are at least 78 GOP candidates who want to make this humane exception illegal.  They want to actually force a women or girl to have the rapist’s baby.  How [...]

Sick, very sick. Where in the world did you come up with this garbage? Faux Fraudcasting?

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[...] it turns out that this election cycle is very different.  In this election cycle,  there are at least 78 GOP candidates who want to make this humane exception illegal.  They want to actually force a women or girl to have the rapist’s baby.  How [...]

Forcing a woman to have the baby that came from being raped is not only sick, it is immoral.
Anybody who would vote Republican is immorally wrong as well.

When you are holier than the rest of us poor peons, you are quite sure that “it can’t happen here.” After all, anyone who is the victim of rape or incest must have brought it on herself, right?

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It’s none of their fucking business if a woman wants to have a baby or not. If they’re going to ban abortions, they better offer EVERY mother a child a safe, clean, happy home, as well as food, clothing, toys, Medical Care and FREE education for as long as that kid requires it, until at least the age of 18 years old. If they’re not going to pay to support that baby, they have no right advocating any births.

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Yet you persist in playing a “game” don’t you.

Why is it so important to you to silence those who point to the differing treatment of victims? Seriously, madam, I’ve had experts try to silence me. You are a rank amateur. “Whiny” indeed!

In my region’s counselling service’s seventeen year history we have seen only a couple of instances of pregnancy resulting from rape. In the cases of the young women concerned they had choices.

Maybe you could explain to the sixteen year old boy why he should be subjected to decades of servitude to his rapist. Maybe you could explain to that sixteen year old boy why he has absolutely no say in his own reproductive destiny and why ALL the choices lie with his rapist.

Clearly you believe you could do a better job than our counselors. For them it was the hardest thing they have ever had to do.

As women we need to take the stand that any medical issue is NONE OF THE GOVERNMENTS BUSINESS. They hardly care if you go get a boob job from a barely legal surgeon but as soon as you suggest that you might not want to be pregnant they are all over your **private medical business that is supposed to be confidential and protected by HIPPA**.

As women we need to take the stand that any medical issue is NONE OF THE GOVERNMENTS BUSINESS. They hardly care if you go get a boob job from a barely legal surgeon but as soon as you suggest that you might not want to be pregnant they are all over your **private medical business that is supposed to be confidential and protected by HIPPA**.

Guys if you respct women as equals please help us make it clear that our medical issues are private and sacred. I like it when the gov’t sets standards for care that make us safer, but they can’t be alowed to determine what kind of care we choose within that safe environment.

There have been several young girls (13-15 ish) in my area that thave tried to self-abort, or to kill themselves bc they were not allowed to have an abortion. I know that there was one girl who hung herself bc she was pregnant by her biological father and was unsuccessful in killing herself. She is now severely mentally retarded and lives in a home. Charges were only brought against her father after she was hosptalized and near death. WTF is wrong with people, especially her FATHER, mother and thier family doctor?

Oh, no, they will make useing condoms punushable by death…think of all those babies that god is trying to create getting all bottled up and impeded by a prophylactic. Too bad god isn’t stronger than latex.

Your mother did choose. For her own reasons she accepted her pregnancy and you with love. Many women feel horrified by such a pregnancy, like they are being raped again every moment that it continues. These women often attemt to self abort, or to commit suicide. And some of them commit infanticide after the baby is born. What a cruel cycle, and completely avoidable.
Medical privacy is a must. Abortion should be safe and legal, and no woman who has one should have to justify it to anyone else. Certainly not politicians. HIPAA.

And as for the old ‘shouldn’t the father have a say too?’ argument. No, he (like she) can make another. Abortion does not prevent anyone from becoming a parent later when they choose to. And the argument about child support doesn’t fly the other way. If you have sex you are anticipating the possibility of pregnancy and the responsibility that entails if a child is born, for both parents.

Why didn’t congress question the AIG, CitiBank, Goldman Sachs, and all the other bank execs how they flew into Washington? I’m sure they didn’t take Greyhound! And they are getting 700 billion. This was just a cheap political ploy to try and embarrass the auto execs. By the way….how do congressmen get over to Iraq when they visit the troops? Private military jets that cost us a fortune, then they have a few hundred soldiers escort them – complete with helicopters, tanks, etc. to protect them.

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[...] Rapist’s Baby Caucus.” Now, additional research, from the Little Green Footballs and Raw Story websites, shows that the “caucus” contains at least 80 members. In the Carolinas, Rep. Patrick McHenry [...]

[...] some reason, the Left fumes whenever pro-life candidates state their beliefs.  This is from The Raw Story: A list of responses from this year’s candidates indicate that 78 Senate and House candidates [...]

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If a woman has no choice in being forced into a sexual act, and let’s face it rape is a sexual act, why should she be given no choice in whether or not to terminate the pregnancy? I hear about this “right to life’ for fetuses and “innocent life” for fetuses but no one ever talks about a woman’s right to life or a woman’s innocence. Is a woman not innocent when she is raped? What about her life? What about her psychological issues? You apparently have never endured a rape. I did at the age of 18. While I never let it get the best of me and I put it behind me, a lot of women can’t do that. I know the rapist was a vile piece of scum and it was entirely his fault. I bear no blame nor any shame and I will never allow someone to get the best of me. At the same time, I felt absolutely filthy inside and took a two hour shower and used four bottles of douche to wipe that man’s filth out of my body. I was on the pill so therefore I was safe from having that vile piece of filth’s offspring growing in my body. Had I gotten pregnant you can bet your sweet ass an abortion was forthcoming. My uterus and my ova belong to me. They are my property and quite frankly my ova is too god damned good for the sperm of a low life piece of garbage. Men who commit incest and rape are not quality biological material and they should not under any circumstances ever be allowed to sire offspring. They should be sterilized immediately but I don’t hear any so-called “pro-life” people calling for that. I don’t hear any so-called “pro-life” people calling for the castration of these types of filth. By forcing rape and incest victims to bring such pregnancies to term is merely legitimizing these acts. Rewarding that sort of scum with fatherhood is totally unacceptable. Filth in my opinion can only beget filth. Let me ask you something else. If a married woman is pregnant, do you honestly expect her husband and children to accept this baby into the family with open arms? Do you honestly expect a husband to have absolutely no issue with the offspring of a rapist growing inside his wife’s body or do you assume that only single women get raped and therefore it’s no big deal? This is one aspect that I never see brought up. How is a woman’s husband expected to feel in all this? You see pregnancy is not merely about the fetus. There is more to pregnancy than the fetus. Especially in a case such as rape, you are talking about a woman, her husband, her family. In a society that looks down its nose at pregnant single women and will always continue to do so, is a woman in that position honestly expected to explain herself to everyone? “I was raped.” “My father is the father of my child.” Do you honestly expect a woman to have to tell society at large this or can she just have a quiet abortion and put this behind her?

Since when do children really get to make choices? Even as a child who has emerged from the womb, you have to abide by the choices your parents make. You may want to stay at home from school but your parents tell you that you have to go. That is a choice your parents make. Your parents made all sorts of choices for you as a child and you really didn’t have much say so in any of them. But all of a sudden a fertilized egg should be allowed to make a choice for the mother? You must be kidding. How can a fertilized egg possibly think much less make choices? Once again this is about a fetus and the woman is out of the equation. A slave to the uterus so to speak.

Hell, a lot of times when a young girl tries to tell her mother that she’s being sexually abused by her father or step-father, the mother usually calls her a liar. That’s the other issue we have. We live in a society where some people believe women “ask for it” and where a lot of families refuse to believe that a male family member is sexually abusing another family member. Trying to be taking seriously after rape or incest has occurred can be pretty difficult.

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[...] Raw Story recently reported that at least 78 Republicans on the November ballot oppose abortion, even in cases of rape and incest. [...]

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