[youtube http://www.youtube.com/v/Xz4O8j8MIhs&hl=en&fs=1 expand=1]

Pam covered this video earlier, but I still have to post on it.

Watching this interview with Rick Warren, I have to admit that I'm surprised that he is as popular as he is, because he's pretty incoherent, even by low wingnut standards. His argument against gay marriage---against gay people, really---starts off with an obvious and odious lie. Warren would have you believe that he regularly has dinner engagements with a multitude of gay people who love him despite the fact that he hates them and happily wishes to send them to hell, and that during these dinners, they have a cheerful, free exchange of ideas where said gay people say, "Rick, I want to get married so I can fuck a city block." And how unfair is that? After all, Rick wants to have sex with every beautiful woman he sees, but he can't, because god says no. Also, so do the beautiful women, with the law backing up their right to do so, but it's a lot more pleasant to imagine it's merely a matter of willpower.

But this is where it gets incoherent. To the dim-witted followers of Rick Warren, it's enough to stoke jealousy and fear of gay people by suggesting they live in a sexual fairyland of endless opportunities, while you, Joe Blow Ugly Christian, can't even get your spouse to pity fuck you more than once a month. After that, it's just a matter of punishing and punishing gays, without really thinking about logical objections, such as, "But they're asking for the right to marry. They---and you---already have a right to sleep with as many people as you want. So, if promiscuity is your objection, why fight against marriage? After all, few things cut back on your opportunities to screw around like being married, even in an open relationship."

Warren seems to realize halfway through this clip that he's actually managed to argue against himself, and starts to back out, suggesting that he's got one standard for everyone, which is celibacy for gay people and monogamy for married people. Which isn't the same standard, unless monogamy is so bad for Rick Warren that he thinks it's in a dead heat with lifelong celibacy. That's really flattering to his wife, I'll tell you what. "Having to have sex with this woman and only this woman is so terrible, so lifeless and unhappy that the only way to make it fair by spreading the misery around is to make other people commit to lifelong celibacy."

He then incoherently cites values like "maturity" and "delayed gratification", which again tells me that his followers must be people who literally cannot understand what words mean, but get off on feeling like they have phrases like "delayed gratification" in their vocabularies, words that sound important even if you don't know what they mean. Because Rick Warren is not talking about the concept of delayed gratification. Delayed gratification has two elements that I think are mandatory for it to mean anything: a) the gratification will come in the future and b) the sacrifices you make now allow that gratification to exist. So, true examples of delayed gratification are saving money for a big purchase, cutting back on calorie consumption and exercising in order to shrink your waistline, studying hard to ace the final, and working for the weekends. These are indeed important lessons to learn, and what's interesting is that there's nothing about sexual liberation that really infringes on delayed gratification. Libertines and homosexuals know how to diet, study, and save money, at least as well as your average Bible-thumper, and perhaps are even better at it, because we're more likely to think that our success depends on hard work, instead of giving it all up to god.

What Rick Warren is talking about---lifelong celibacy---is not delayed gratification, because there's not gratification aspect. Monogamy is not delayed gratification, either, which isn't an argument for or against it. Things can be the right choices for other reasons. The closest in the right wing pantheon of pseudo-virtues to delayed gratification is abstaining until marriage. But even this is not really proper delayed gratification, because the delaying isn't done to create the gratification. It's just done to follow the rules. Sex isn't better because you waited long past the time you were ready to start experimenting. All you get is time lost that you will never get back. The awkward fumbling is the same awkward fumbling this week or the next, and putting a wedding ring on in the meantime won't change that. Of course, I realize that wingnuts claim it will, that the wedding ring makes you magically able to fuck like experts without any practice whatsoever, but alas, my ability to believe that lie was eroded by the multitude of other lies---including the imaginary dinners Rick Warren has with his gay friends---that we hear coming out of authoritarians like this.

Meanwhile, considering that Warren just compared monogamy with his wife (and projected his negative experiences onto the rest of us) with the misery of lifelong celibacy, it's just a matter of time before he cracks. I mean, you can only be as unfulfilled as Warren is claiming to be so long. I'm with Susie---we've seen over and over again what happens to these charlatans who preach a gospel of inhuman self-deprivation.

Warren has ALL the earmarks in his behavior that we saw with Ted Haggard, Larry Craig, Bob Allen, David Vitter, Jimmy Swaggart, et al. Look at his history... where have you heard ALL this before?

If this dude isn't found in a bathroom with a wide stance and a hooker in the next year, someone's not doing their job. Paging Jeff Gannon!

By the way, his poor wife. I guess being rich makes up for it some, but getting sexually disparaged like this in public is uncool. But the "if I can't have satisfying sex due to the ol' ball and chain, no one can" trope is gigglingly popular amongst these dudes. It's a further example of how sexism and homophobia are tightly intertwined. I will say it's funny to me how many homophobic Bible-thumpers can barely conceal their envy of what they assume gay lives must be like, where you can satisfy all these whims and desires without any consequence. Makes you wonder how many people would be able to chill out if they just had a little less personal shame about sex.