Ex-FBI deputy calls Trump’s pardons the most ‘lawful way to obstruct justice’ possible

Frank Figliuzzi, a former assistant director for counterintelligence at the FBI, told MSNBC's Nicolle Wallace that President Donald Trump is using presidential pardons as a way to obstruct justice "legally."

Speaking on her show Tuesday, Wallace reported the day's news that Rudy Giuliani was seeking a pardon from Trump for any "possible" crimes he could be charged with after Trump leaves office. Giuliani was heavily involved in a conspiracy to blackmail the president of Ukraine. That same conspiracy is what ultimately led to Trump being impeached in 2019.

"Giuliani and Trump, going back to campaign days and forward, are linked together," said Figliuzzi. "They are intertwined. And really, I'm now seeing a presidential pardon is perhaps the most lawful way to obstruct justice that we have in our system, because that's what these pardons will inevitably become, an obstruction of justice by the president to protect his own skin. And now, we see some sense, if there's any way to make sense out of the craziness that is Rudy Giuliani, we see him acting out on the president's behalf, largely likely because he needs to, if he is to have any hope of getting a pardon. So, he's acting in his own self-interest, not out of some sense of loyalty to the president, and he's going to beg and plead for some salvation."

He went on to remind the audience that getting a pardon means you remove the ability to declare the Fifth Amendment law against self-incrimination. So if Giuliani is called to testify before a grand jury, he'll be forced to answer questions about federal crimes.

"You can't stop the state of New York for going after similar crimes that may be on their books," he also said.

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