Donald Trump's top strategist and son-in law Jared Kushner told prosecutors that he believed the former president genuinely thought the 2020 election was stolen, theNew York Times reported Thursday.
The report says that investigators from Special Counsel Jack Smith's office were trying to determine if Trump knew that he had lost before he began his allegations that the election had been stolen – "essentially that his efforts were knowingly based on a lie."
Other experts said the testimony suggested a direct link between Kushner and attempts to use election lies to fundraise.
"(Trump campaign ad maker Larry) Weitzner also revealed that the one time he spoke to Trump about post-election ads, it was because Trump and Jared called him together on speakerphone to convey "what they felt was wrong about the election process that might be considered for some ads," said MSNBC legal analyst Lisa Rubin.
She added: "Jared Kushner's testimony before a federal grand jury is significant for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that it suggests the fundraising prong of the 1/6 investigation is very much alive."
It prompted experts to remember similar testimony Kushner gave to the Jan. 6 Commission.
Former lead investigator for the Jan. 6 committee, Timothy Heaphy, told MSNBC's Nicolle Wallace on Thursday as the news broke that, as facts developed around the 2020 election, Trump's rhetoric grew "increasingly inconsistent with the facts." That leads to the mindful criminality, he explained.
"It's fraudulent to bilk people out of their money because it's an effective fund-raising scheme," Heaphy said. "All of it is important. There's a disconnect between the rhetoric and the facts."
Kushner, Heaphy argued, is fair game for investigators, despite being Trump's son-in-law, because Trump involved him in the White House.
"He's part of the president's family," Heaphy continued. He "was involved in discussions soon after the election in which the president was told directly that he lost. He was present for this meeting where the pollster, the data guy from the campaign, actually presented the numbers and went through the sort of explanation of the decreased margins in the suburban areas, and he was already starting to move to Florida."
During that Jan. 6 Committee testimony, he said he was out of town during the Jan. 6 attacks. He explained he was overseas to deal with his Abraham Accords project. He landed on the evening of Jan. 6 and the following day held a dinner party at his home.
It implied that he had very little to do with the Jan. 6 efforts, but according to experts talking about the report on MSNBC Thursday evening, Kushner had a lot to do with the financial aspect of the rally on the Ellipse that day.
Rubin recalled on Twitter that, besides Jason Miller, Trump and Kushner, "no one was more involved in post-election fundraising and related messaging than Jared."
The information came from advertising consultant Larry Weitzner, who spoke to the Jan. 6 committee. He said "The small circle working on post-election ads included Miller, Newt Gingrich, Trump's pollster and Jared."
Weitzner, she recalled, "also revealed that the one time he spoke to Trump about post-election ads, it was because Trump and Jared called him together on speakerphone to convey 'what they felt was wrong about the election process that might be considered for some ads.'"
He went on to recall to the committee that Kushner was the one pressing for the call and that Trump was the one who called the election "stolen" in a "very aggressive" term. Weitzner called it an example of "fire breathing" when emailing others.
Weitzner testified that in his emails with Miller editing three post-election ads, Gingrich was talking to both Trump and Kushner about the content. He was characterized as having a "critical role."
"He was directly involved in the campaign fundraising that then became the stop the steal fundraising," Heaphy said. "He was directly personally briefed almost daily about the cash machine, veritable, hand-over-fist money-making machine it was, the Stop the Steal.
"The Trump campaign pivoted to a fundraising operation, and Jared Kushner was right in the center of the strategy of mining the false narrative for repeated cash contributions of up to $250 million after the election. So, to the extent Jack Smith is looking into campaign fundraising based on these false statements of election fraud, Jared Kushner would have information about that as well."
See Heaphy's comments in the video below or at the link here.