Mark Meadows is 'playing all sides' trying to get out of trouble: legal expert

Former White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows has "played all sides" as he tried to avoid prosecution for his involvement in the plot to overturn the 2020 presidential election, argued former federal prosecutor Harry Litman on MSNBC's "Deadline: White House."

"I'm not a lawyer, but even I know that is ludicrous. Saying because he was chief of staff, he had to help Trump plan his coup because that's what his boss wanted is asinine," said anchor Nicolle Wallace.

"It won't work," said Litman. "It shouldn't work for Trump who was going to do this. We've had different holdings from different courts saying, nuh-uh, the stuff you're doing doesn't even reach the outer perimeter which is the test. But look what Meadows is doing in there. Do you characterize them in the same way as Trump? As you know, basically doing a plot to steal the election? Or he's the chief of staff. Do you characterize them as following the orders of the president?"

Meadows, Litman continued, is "a very interesting figure in this indictment generally. On the one hand, he shows up in Jack Smith's indictment. So you thought the attorney, an excellent lawyer, a former attorney general, had done a great deal with him. But it couldn't be because he's now subject to criminal indictment in Georgia. He is the man of mystery. As to his motion for removal, it is less, I would say, loser out of the box than for Trump himself. The question is, how do you characterize the act he's doing? Is he acting as chief of staff to a madman? Is that what do you when you're a chief of staff to a madman?"

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"Let me press you on this," said Wallace, who herself was a staffer in the George W. Bush administration. "Isn't there a — in a sense, breaking point when the president is asking you to do something illegal? Rudy Giuliani thought seizing voting machines was illegal. Do you just cover it under, the boss told me to do it? I've worked in the White House. I've never heard that before."

"But again, follow what Meadows is doing specifically," said Litman. "He's playing all sides. It will matter how you characterize his conduct. Yes, he can't be following illegal orders and still say I'm acting under color of my office. Look at the way the attorney is trying to frame it. I'm not saying it is a dead-bang winner. I'm trying to underscore the distinction between Meadows, who is at least more doing what a chief of staff does, than Trump, who is obviously out of the outer perimeter of how presidents act. It will come down to how you characterize. I agree. There are things far afield, come on, Meadows. You're basically holding up a bank. But other things where he's acting as chief of staff. It is less of an easy case for him than it is for Trump."

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