Mike Pence can help indict Trump for Jan. 6 by answering a single question: legal expert
One of the major pieces of information that former Vice President Mike Pence could reveal to the grand jury in Washington, D.C. is that Donald Trump was lying on Jan. 5 when he claimed that Pence was firmly behind him for the protest on Jan. 6.
"This could be just one of many, many, many in his own administration — his people, saying that what you are trying to convince us of didn't happen, and we are not going to take steps based on this erroneous case," said Andrew Weissmann — an NYU law professor and former general counsel to the FBI — on MSNBC's The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell.
"I agree with you that it's much more likely that the vice president has -- if he is truthful — key information. It could go as far as Mar-a-Lago, as he hears about documents being taken, and training that was given to him and the president about what was his or not his. And obviously to much more central things to the Jan. 6 investigation."
There are questions that the Justice Department could ask, like what conversations the two men had about winning in 2020.
"I think that a key thing I have always thought would be critical for Vice President Pence is that Jan. 5 email, where you have the president saying that the vice president agrees that he has the power to not count the votes," Weissmann recalled. "The reason that is so critical is that [if] the vice president in the grand jury says that that is not true, and I did not say it, and that was not my position, you know that because the very next day, I didn't do that. That means you know that Donald Trump, the day before January 6th, was lying. This case is about his intent, and if you can show that he deliberately was fomenting his people with a lie about the power of the vice president, I think that's a huge home run for justice."
In a later conversation on MSNBC between Neal Katyal — former acting solicitor general under Brack Obama's administration — and MSNBC host Lawrence O'Donnell, the two debated whether a president could be sent to prison. O'Donnell maintained that a president would have to be under house arrest, at worst, because of his Secret Service. Katyal disagreed, and Weissmann's nodding head indicated he also might disagree with O'Donnell.
"I don't think you get special treatment because you have Secret Service protection. Even with this crime in New York, there is a lot of criticism about the district attorney for saying that this is aggravating this to a felony I think that's wrong, I think there's a lot of reasons why I will be considered a felony, even though they can stand up in court," said Katyal. "But even if it's a misdemeanor, in new york, a misdemeanor has up to a year in prison as part of its criminal activity. And remember, there was is a guy named Donald Trump, who, in 2016, he campaigned on 'lock her up, lock her up,' about Hillary Clinton. What he was accusing Hillary Clinton of was not a felony, it was a misdemeanor. This is serious stuff.
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