Trump courtroom drama is so bizarre Nicolle Wallace needs 'a shrink' to analyze it
Despite decades in politics and news, MSNBC host Nicolle Wallace still thinks she needs a psychological expert to understand Donald Trump's actions around his court appearances.
On Wednesday, Trump allegedly attacked the judge's clerk for a second time, but without using her name, earning him a $10,000 fine. Trump claimed he wasn't talking about her, but Judge Arthur Engoron didn't buy it, saying when he mentions Michael Cohen, he uses the man's name every time.
"I never thought it would feel inadequate to have the journalistic firepower and the legal brainpower of the two of you, but I find myself most days needing a shrink to say, is the meltdown, right?" Wallace said as the rest of the panel laughed. "Like is the thing that happened that we all — not you Glenn [Thrush], but Neal and Andrew came on the air, we moved their schedules around, we earlied them up to 4:00, because we got alerts from the New York Times that Trump freaked out in court today, that he went and smeared Judge Engoron's clerk."
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Wallace explained that legal experts, hosts, and reporters have been covering Trump day after day in court after court around the country and she can't understand what he or his lawyers are thinking, if at all.
"There he is," she said of the court rendering of Trump on the stand. "Maybe he'll put that on the wall next to his Kim Jong-Un selfie. There is his sketch from being called to the stand today. Where Trump faces no jail time in this civil proceeding, yet he seems to be trying to land himself in jail. And Neal, I can't get my brain around what the hell he is doing."
The former acting solicitor general, Neal Katyal, said he's not particularly great at playing a psychotherapist.
"Here is the best I can come up with, Nicolle," Katyal began. "Any immunity deal, any arrangement by Mark Meadows with Jack Smith is very bad for criminal defendant Donald Trump. Meadows is in the room where it all happened. He understands Trump's intent, his mens rea, his state of mind, and also Trump's acts, what he did. And the details will matter because not all immunity arrangements are the same. There could be a narrow immunity deal called limited immunity, which means Meadows could still be charged, and it means he hasn't necessarily flipped on Donald Trump. Or broad immunity, full immunity, where Meadows is safe from prosecution."
He explained that it's likely that Meadows would have to give damning evidence against Trump to get a full deal. Regardless of which it is, Katyal said that it'll be bad for Trump.
"You know, obviously Trump lost the election, and it's unlikely, very unlikely that Meadows heard Trump saying, 'I won! I won! I won!' behind closed doors," Katyal continued referencing the recent report Meadows may be cooperating with the special counsel on the 2020 election case. "So, that's what the ABC News story is basically saying. Forget about the technical details of which Andrew is right that might provide Meadows' attorney a chance to quibble with this or that. But the basic bottom line is Meadows went into the grand jury and said Donald Trump thought he lost the election. That is very, very bad."
He went on to call it a key element to the criminal case whether there's a broad immunity deal or not.
Meanwhile, in Georgia, Sidney Powell, Kenneth Chesebro, and Jenna Ellis have all made plea deals with the district attorney. According to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, there are six others talking with the office about their own deals.
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