A new round of subpoenas went out over the past few weeks from the Justice Department that is causing some nervousness among those in Donald Trump's world, MSNBC noted during a discussion on Sunday.
Speaking to former federal prosecutor Glenn Kirschner, Yasmin Vossoughian asked about the advancement of the case under special counsel Jack Smith. One of the key pieces is that the attorneys are now becoming witnesses.
"It's highly unusual, but it's not unprecedented," Kirschner explained. "There are times when prosecutors will investigate the mafia, mob organizations, and they will get to a point in the investigation when it looks like the attorneys representing the mobsters, the targets of the investigation, are complicit in the crimes of the organization and prosecutors do go after mob lawyers."
He named the example of large-scale drug organizations in Washington, D.C., where lawyers knowingly accepted so-called "dirty drug money" for their services. He said that they would at times, go after those lawyers.
The issue with Trump now over lawyer Evan Corcoran and whether he can declare attorney/client privilege because he may have been complicit in the crimes. There is a crime-fraud exception to the privilege, but the prosecutors have to prove that there was crime or fraud.
"I think everyone is worried on Team Trump," said Kirschner. "I don't fully understand why Mike Pence is unwilling to stand up for the people of the United States of America and talk about, for example, the pressure campaign that Donald Trump waged against him to get him to commit federal crimes. To violate the Electoral Count Act on Jan. 6 and obstruct Congress' official proceeding certifying Joe Biden's win. Mike Pence seems comfortable talking about it publicly when he's trying to profit off of his book."
He went on to say that a problem that witnesses will have is trying to throw up multiple privileges and that he doesn't think any of them will work in the end.
"I think Mike Pence will testify at the end of the day," said Kushner. "There are several reasons why the executive privilege fails, and I also think the speech or debate clause privilege fails because no matter how you cut it, Mike Pence is not a legislator, and he wasn't engaged in robust debate about legislation. So I think all privileges will fail, and Mike Pence will find himself inside the grand jury."
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