"I mean, it was especially disappointing to see what happened with the border, right?" Buttigieg told Kernen, who has been described as "pro-Trump."
"You got congressional GOP, talking about the border every chance they got so you would think they would be interested in addressing it and yet, when a bipartisan bill put together by one of the most conservative members of the Senate, and Democrats working negotiating, making tough, tough decisions that both of their respective bases were going to have trouble with, came in, hammered that out," he said, noting that Donald Trump, "who's not even an elected official" came in to "kill it with the chill that he put on congressional Republicans."
As the conversation continued, Kernen and Buttigieg talked over each other, as the CNBC host insisted, "let me finish."
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"Every time we hear those talking points, that suddenly it was Republicans who ruined the border," Kernen said. "That's why people get so frustrated. We know what President Biden said about inviting people in. We know that he got rid of all the things that were keeping the border closed that President Trump had put in, we know that he got rid of all those. So when you say it's not his fault –"
"That's literally not true," Buttigieg protested, reminding Kernen that President Biden "got rid of the policy to tear children out of the arms of their parents. That's true, but it is not true, some of the other things that have been suggested –"
As the two continued to talk over each other, Kernen decried the "disconnect" between what Republicans and Democrats say, and Buttigieg added that "literally since the Reagan administration, right? There have been bipartisan efforts to get something done here" on immigration.
"But I really believe we've gotten to the point," Buttigieg observed, "where many congressional Republicans find it so useful as a cudgel that they would rather keep the problem going for political uses, than solve the problem and risk the chance that the President is sharing credit for that."
Kernen insisted "the administration keeps saying don't believe your lying eyes," but Buttigieg responded, "I think congressional Republicans are saying don't believe your lying eyes, which is why they're polling at about 15%."
"We have economic numbers," Buttigieg continued, "is it my lying eyes that under Joe Biden, we've had the most job creation in American history? Is it my lying eyes telling us that unemployment and inflation are both below 4% and have been that way for the longest time? Is it reality? Or is it spin to point out the fact that manufacturing jobs are up under this President? And were down under the last president," he added, as Kernen tried to interrupt after looking away from his guest.
"These are matters of simple fact," Buttigieg said.
"When we heard for three years, the border's closed and it's secure. And 7.2 million people have come in to where our big cities have no idea how to handle this," Kernen claimed, going after the Biden administration.
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"And here's the thing," Buttigieg interjected. "This is really important. Okay. The common sense position and the position that by the way, a lot of moderate Democrats and moderate Republicans would always say the kinds of things that you hear at the Chamber of Commerce in Indiana, where I come from, is that there ought to be more legal immigration and less illegal immigration."
" And yet when there's a chance to actually do that, that's not what happened. The last administration cut legal immigration, and meanwhile, our economy is pulling people just as much as terrible conditions in Latin America are pushing people, and when there's finally a bipartisan compromise, that would help address at least some of those issues, Congressional Republicans couldn't get it done because Donald Trump who's not even an elected office killed it. That is a fact."
"I just think you know, the American public just wants something that benefits them. They just don't want to hear [that] what they see isn't happening," Kernen declared.
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