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CNN host presses witness of Israeli embassy killings on who is to blame for them
May 22, 2025 7:41AM ET
CNN
CNN's Sara Sidner pushed back on a witness to the deadly shooting outside Israel's embassy who blamed the murders on campus protesters.
The suspect shouted "free, free Palestine" while in police custody after the deadly shooting of embassy staffers Yaron Lischinsky and Sarah Milgrim, and witness Jonathan Epstein told "CNN News Central" that he saw no difference between the alleged gunman and students protesting Israel's war in Gaza.
"We were in the secure room when [the gunman] initially walked in," Epstein said. "I saw him screaming and then being handcuffed. But what I saw in his eyes, I mean, I went to Columbia for grad school, and I saw the same thing in his eyes as I saw in the eyes of all the protesters at Columbia. Nothing different between him and them."
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Sidner pushed back, suggesting that protests were not the same thing as a shooting.
"But they did not create this horrific shooting," Sidner said. "They did not, you know, sort of – they didn't shoot."
Epstein wasn't so sure.
"They gave permission," Epstein said. "They gave a permission. They've called for this. They've called for intifada revolution, which is the same thing he yelled last night."
Sidner asked if he worried that comparison lessened the murders.
"Do you worry that there will be a come conflation of the two, those people who are speaking their mind, who really care about what is happening in Gaza, and those people who are like this person who did this horrific shooting, who intend to do harm?" Sidner asked.
The witness emphasized that he saw no difference between the shooter and the protesters.
"A conflation?" he said. "I mean, they are calling for intifada at Columbia University, they call for intifada constantly. They're not quiet, they're loud. They're loud – you can hear it. They make recordings of themselves. So what's the difference?"
Sidner asked if he was afraid, and Epstein said he was, and she followed up by asking what he was doing to make himself feel safer.
"Yes, we're all afraid," Epstein said. "Everyone should be afraid. Well, can you just go on and live your life? I'm a New Yorker, I remember 9/11. You can't let them make you be afraid. You have to go on, you have to live your life, and hopefully your government does things to protect you. Last night, our government failed us."
Police have identified the gunman as Elias Rodriguez, a Chicago man in his early 30s, and Sidner said he would almost certainly face charges in the killings.
"I know that they are going forward with this," she said. "There is expected to be charges in this case. We will see what happens, but I know you'll be watching and we'll talk to you again as this goes forward. Thank you so much, and I'm sorry that you had to witness what you did."
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