No way Pence didn't know what Trump was up to in Ukraine after aide's revelations: CNN panel

A CNN panel discussion on testimony given by a top aide to Vice President Mike Pence said her revelations about what she knew about President Donald Trump's Ukraine dealings can only mean Pence knew and is lying.

Speaking with New Day hosts John Berman and Alisyn Camerota, contributor Kaitlan Collins stated Jennifer Williams' description of Trump's Ukraine phone call was expected to set Trump off, which it did when the president raged at her on Sunday as a "Never Trumper."

"We kind of saw this coming, that they anticipated the president could be frustrated by her testimony," Collins explained. "Because in the weeks before, when she was going to testify behind closed doors, we saw them distancing themselves from her. Yes, she works in our office, but she's the State Department employee detailed to our office."

Collins added Williams, "was on the call with the president. She traveled with Pence when he went to Warsaw to meet with the Ukrainian president."

"She's not some low-level staffer," she continued. "She's also not an eager witness. No one even realized she was on the call until someone else on the call named her to house investigators, that's why she was called to testify in the first place."

Former White House official Joe Lockhart jumped in to say Pence had to know what William had heard during the call.

"I think the other thing about Jennifer Williams, and it's not getting as much attention, is she does place Vice President Pence in an awkward position," Lockhart suggested. "He either has to argue he doesn't read his briefing book, doesn't listen to his staff, or I was in on this. It's one or the other. So far he's escaped scrutiny here, but he was briefed on his way to Warsaw by her and apparently, it was in his briefing book"

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