'They heard what he knew': Legal expert claims Trump's lawyers have become 'the most crucial witnesses'

Donald Trump's lawyers have always been his sounding board for sketchy activity, and one legal expert said they're increasingly becoming the most crucial witnesses as prosecutors zero in on the former president.

Rudy Giuliani recently sat down with prosecutors from special counsel Jack Smith's team, and he publicized that development himself, which legal analyst Lisa Rubin told MSNBC's Symone Sanders signaled that the former Trump attorney was willing to talk to other investigators.

"I think he wants people to know that for two reasons," Rubin said. "No. 1, he wants Fani Willis's team to know that because a deal with the special counsel's office only protects him against federal prosecution, it does nothing for him with respect to the state of Georgia, and as you know, while the president can pardon someone for a federal crime, the president doesn't have power to pardon anyone from a state crime. So if Donald Trump were to be re-elected, he would have absolutely no power to do anything about any prosecution, much less a conviction of Rudy Giuliani in Georgia."

"He wants the folks in Georgia to know that he's willing to play ball, and that he is eager to play ball," Rubin added. "I think that's his first and foremost reason for doing it."

Conditions are much more favorable for the target of an investigation before they are indicted, Rubin said, and she followed up later with a series of tweets explaining what made Trump's attorneys such compelling witnesses.

"Until recently, few had more access to Trump than his closest legal advisors," Rubin tweeted. "Trump understood attorney/client privilege, deploying his lawyers with and without their knowledge as instruments of his alleged crimes. So it likely was with the post-election crew. The [Jan. 6] boots on the ground were worlds from Trump, but the lawyers were not."

"They had his ear, [and] more importantly, he spoke right into theirs," she added. "They heard what he knew, and they know what he nonetheless directed. And besides Meadows, Pence, [and] small group of [White House] lawyers (Cipollone, Philbin, & Herschmann), the lawyers are the most critical witnesses."

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