Newly leaked tapes of an interview of President Donald Trump's one-time associate Sidney Powell by Fulton County prosecutors is incredibly damning for Trump in the Georgia election racketeering case, said January 6 investigator Tim Heaphy on MSNBC Tuesday.

For one thing, Heaphy told anchor Nicolle Wallace, Powell reveals on the tapes that Trump deliberately ignored counsel telling him he lost the election — undermining his argument that he truly believed in good faith the election was rigged.

"There was really never any serious effort to uncover voter fraud or any serious belief in its existence," said Heaphy.

"It sounds very much like this was a political strategy from the beginning. Generate fake electors, go to the state legislators and state officials, the Republican members of Congress, that's the path forward. It doesn't really matter if we keep losing these claims."

"That is shocking. That's illegal. We got toward that, but this is more direct evidence. The other thing that comes through to me in all of these new debriefing tapes that are coming out is how much engaged the president was himself. A key fact for Jack Smith, Fani Willis, will be a personal involvement. He was briefed by [attorney Kenneth] Chesebro directly on the fake electors plans. He's talking directly to Sidney Powell about these theories of election fraud, which are debunked. He is not a passive observer being advised by lawyers. He's engaged in discussions and controlling and understanding a plot. Those are two significant things, very relevant in both cases."

"Trump has been charged with the civil rights era crime of denying the vote and their actual votes and the right to vote," said Wallace. "It seems that knowing there was never any fraud goes a long way toward proving that Trump intended to deny people their votes."

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"Yes, exactly right," agreed Heaphy. "If the civil rights charge requires mindful deprivation of a right, the fact that he disregards the actual evidence of fraud and moves straight to the political coup, those flanks in the multiprong approach to disrupt the joint session is very telling on his intent."

"The other thing that Powell indicates very directly is she was present in repeated explanations to the president," said Heaphy. "Again, go back to [former Attorney General] Bill Barr's analogy about the clown car. There are capable lawyers that had been with the president throughout his time. His campaign lawyers, even on the political side, yet he listens to or adopts the flawed reasoning of people like the clown car. Sidney Powell, Jenna Ellis, who is not far out of law school, had no experience — these are the people on which he's going to claim to rely when the pros in the room are continually telling him in the presence of the clown car. All significant evidence of his understanding and his intent."

Watch the video below or at the link here.

Tim Heaphy on Sidney Powell's testimony www.youtube.com