OK, folks, the swamp-dwellers are are off the rails. Look at this post, "Preparing for the "Big What if": Buying a gun." It's full-blown Fear Of A Black Planet hysteria.

The purpose of this thread is to help Freepers and lurkers decide upon what the best mode of self defense would be in the case of the breakdown in social order such as happened with the Rodney King riots.

Joe Brower owns one of the RKBA (Right to Keep and Bear Arms) ping lists. I tried to convince him to open this vanity because he and his friends are more knowledgeable about guns. He says, "there have already been threads on the subject you mention right here on FR, although I can't locate them now. Tell you what -- you start the thread and then ping me, and I'll then flag my RKBA list for comments. I'm sure some folks in that group would be able to provide links, as well as plenty of timely advice. "

This scenario is called the SHTF scenario, where the acronym stands for $#|+ Hits The Fan. So this will be the SHTF gun thread for November 2008... Of course, gun ownership isn't for everyone. But it is the most accessible safety measure under our constitution, which is as our founding fathers intended. Recall where the police were when the Rodney King riots started: they left the scene for their own safety. If that were to happen in your neighborhood, what is your plan?

And what were the comments like on this thread? View some below the fold. They assume the race riots will begin if McCain wins. Mind you, the Freepi aren't the only ones saying this sort of thing. Jonah Goldberg was all over this last year; Pat Buchanan is right there with them as well. Here's Goldberg, in rare form:

I think it's worth imagining a certain scenario. Imagine the Democrats do rally around Obama. Imagine the media invests as heavily in him as I think we all know they will if he's the nominee -- and then imagine he loses. I seriously think certain segments of American political life will become completely unhinged. I can imagine the fear of this social unraveling actually aiding Obama enormously in 2008.

Of course, there is zero speculation about whether there might be unrest not because Obama loses, but we experience another presidential election where voting machines "lose" thousands of Dem votes in key states, or voters are caged or deterred by broken machines and administrative hoohah.

I am really scared for this country. Yeah, I'm sure most of these losers are just mouthing off, but how many Jim Atkissons do you think are out there?

Actual Freeper Quotes

Here are my particulars:

I live in silicon valley, in a working class neighborhood, mostly hispanic and mostly homeowners rather than renters. I have 2 kids under 9 years old, so it would be important to have a safe trigger lock thingamajiggie. For me, money is very tight right now, so I am focusing on Minimal Outlay in terms of weapon purchase and ammunition. In addition, when this all blows over and it turns out to be nothing (which I'm hoping for, like the Y2K scenario), then I would have a fun little plinker gun to go out into the woods and enjoy. So I'm thinking of buying a 0.22 rifle with a scope, maybe 1000 rounds of ammunition. I'm thinking of semi-auto, perhaps with a lever discharge. I intend to buy whatever is cheapest at Big 5 Sporting Goods or Walmart.

Please keep in mind that there are thousands of lurkers who know that they have the RKBA but are a little bit nervous about buying and owning a weapon. These are not seasoned shooters. I doubt a shotgun would be the right weapon for such neophytes.

Well, here goes. Be polite.

Two certainities: 1) Obama will not be the next President 2) There will be no real “riots” as a consequence.

What do you mean by #2? What is a real riot versus a non-real riot, and why is “riot” in quotes? Please elaborate.

Isn’t a “quiet riot” when Al Sharpton’s people don’t make any noise when they set your Jewish-owned store on fire???

Being a hunter, buy yourself a remington 870 shot gun (combo) it come with both deer and bird barrels the bird shot is good for maximum spead for self defense plus its one shot in the barrel and 4 in the stock.

Don’t think we’ll have a problem here in small town South Alabama as 95% of us already have firearms and folks are basically sane. But you never know. Which makes Life interesting.

3. I will have extra ammo on hand.

Probably in some of the more violent cities in our country there will similar violence to that of when the Lakers or the Piston’s won the championship...but other than that, I believe that most on the left will get really loaded, pass out and come to the morning after and have a massive hang over — I don’t believe there will be any Jim Jones mass kool aid events or anything like that...the last time a group blindly followed a charismatic personality...

A pump shotgun is a great weapon for a neophyte. Easy to aim. Easy to load and unload. Hard hitting effective rounds. Less likely to kill a bystander with an errant shot. Intimidating. And makes a great sound as you chamber a round.

If you are on a budget but serious about home & self-defense ... I bought a Mossberg `Maverick’ 12 gauge shotgun at Wally World for $177.00 not too long ago. The safety is on the trigger guard, like a Remington, so I could put a top folding stock on it. I also bought an 18 1/2” barrel, but the longer barrel is better. It chambers 2 3/4 and 3 inch shells. I plan to put it in my trunk right after Halloween. Save the .22 for plinking cans and squirrels. Series.

I'm not answering for ZULU, but from experiencing fighting the rioters in Newark, N.J. in '67 & '68. They don't leave their neighborhoods, but attempt to burn & steal everything from all businesses in them. They will also shoot at any white person who happens to be there, or passing through.

I think you meant, point, not aim...You aim a rifle, you point a shotgun. Been shooting them all my life, and taught it for the last 15 years.

I’d second the opinion in the Rem 870 combo. Don’t need to take any stupid test (as for handgun ownership here in CA), reasonably affordable, durable, the newer modles have a safety lock that requires a special tool to disable, ammo is cheap and readily available (use #4 buck for crowd control), easy to maintain. You can also take up skeet or trap with the long barrel if you like. The only other alternative is any of the “security” shottys that Big 5 carry. They’re a little cheaper (and maybe not as solidly built, but still safe) but they all come with the 18.5” barrel which isn’t useful for bird shooting. Oh, BTW, Obama will win CA, but McCain/Palin will win the general...and there will be no riots anywhere.

And then they complain when stores and other businesses don’t want to located in their neighborhoods.

A few pieces of info for you. A .22 has NO stopping power. It will only piss them off and they will get you before you can load the next round. Keep the weapon out of reach of the kids and teach them not to touch it or go near it. A locked gun is useless for self defense. The reason there were no Y2K disasters is because thousands of people like me worked countless hours to fix the problems before the event. The threat and the problems were real. The threat of riots is real too. The only way to deal with it is to be prepared. Hope for the best prepare for the worst.

If you live in a large urban area, work in a large urban area or visit a large urban area, you need to pay attention to what is going on and the big “IF” in November. That's number one. I would suggest to my non-gun owning friends that you sit down and truly look with an objective eye regarding the situation. Can I defend my property if I have to do so? Can I defend the lives of my family if I have to do so? What are the risks of major rioting and or other upheaval near me?

Shotguns are good for personal defense if you understand the limitations. A .22 rifle is nice for plinking cans and bottles, and I guess in a pinch if you got off a very good shot, you might get lucky. Personally, I would not bother.

My suggestion would be a bolt action rifle, a small revolver and a 9mm or .45 automatic pistol. If you are not familiar with firearms, take a class. Practice. Practice. Practice. Understand that it is a tool, and always treat every thing that even looks like a gun as a loaded weapon.

Best firearms for defending oneself in a”riot”?

I cast my vote for two (both carried at the same time): 1) A pump action 12 gauge shotgun with plenty of 00Buck shells. 2) A .357 mag revolver with a couple speed-loaders and plenty of extra ammunition.

I’ll certainly not argue with those who are more comfortable with a semi-auto pistol like the good-ol’ .45 ACP (with several spare magazines and, as before, plenty of extra ammo), but I think the shotgun is absolutley indespensible in a “close-in” situation. The police don’t call their short-barreled pump actions “riot guns” for nothing.

The purpose of this thread is to help Freepers and lurkers decide upon what the best mode of self defense would be in the case of the breakdown in social order.

Too late for all that.

The government has already perpetrated a coast to coast lawless violent invasion by allowing into the country upwards of 40 million illegal aliens...While at the same time forcing the working class to subsidize the business owners illegal low wage labor. While the biz owners reap their profits from low wage illegal workers, the American working class are left twisting in the wind, paying for millions of illegals health care, food stamps, etc. All this while the government has spent money like a drunken lotto winner. This is a perfect example of an extreme breakdown in social order that has been building strong for over 10 years now.

If you have never owned a gun: buy a revolver for close in and a bolt action/lever for range ( see below) If you don't have much $$$, buy a Ruger 10/22 and a brick of ammo...will kill game and feral humans. If you absolutely want to kill stop a man in your home, get a 12 gauge pump-action and load it with #4 buck. If you want to defend property outside the home, you need #00 buckshot for distance and car/garage penetration (warning: can penetrate many sheetrock walls). If you want to defend against a mob, you will need a semi-auto with hi-cap magazines, ar-15/ak series/mini14/sks. for two man team patrols in/around property, it's hard to beat a .357 lever action for the wife/preteens and a .357 revolver. (can shoot .38 SPL)....this is old school SHTF... But still has merits. lastly..... For zombie defense, get a M1919a4 on tripod and set the T&E to head level ;)

Another thing that “community organizers” harp about - the higher prices in stores in these neighborhoods. Well, if you “community organizers” would “organize” a lower crime rate, these businesses wouldn’t have to invest in the extra security measures, have to deal with as much theft, and lower insurance rates, then they could charge what they charge in “white” neighborhoods.

If it looks like McCain's going to win, rent a place in a better neighborhood for a few days. The places that are burned or destroyed are usually small stores that are easy to loot. Stay away from them. Riots won't last more than a few days. If you think your neighborhood will blow, go on vacation, visit the in-laws. Send the kids away. If there's rioting, responsible blacks - including Obama - will be out there telling people to calm down. And the police will be doing their part. It'll be fine. Don't be bullied into voting for Obama out of fear.

I would rather have a .22LR than having to use my fist. I have seen LOTS of dead gang bangers in Little Rock with no visible wounds, later found to be shot with .22. You are right though, limited stop potential UNLESS YOU CAN score with a head shot.