White House senior advisor Jared Kushner and Donald Trump, Jr. are both in "grave peril" after being caught in their lies, NBC News national affairs analyst John Heilemann explained on "Deadline: White House" with Nicolle Wallace.
"Jared Kushner's state of mind is where he lied repeatedly on the most important security forms ... that you ever fill out," Heilemann noted. "Why are you lying on the security forms over and over again when you know that you're going to get caught?"
"One way or another, this is a guy who thought on this topic he could lie over and over again on security clearances and get away with it, that's the same kind of guy who thinks somehow if we cut this mole off of our arm that our stage four lymphatic cancer will go away by getting rid of the mole," he explained.
"It's nuts," he added.
"But another reason why like Donald Trump, Jr., you think about another person who I think is in grave peril for -- on both questions of perjury and lying to Congress, lying to others also knee-deep in a lot of areas of corruption the special counsel's got to be caring about," he said.
Heilemann also compared and contrasted the two.
"The reality is Donald Trump, Jr. is as dumb as a rock," he declared. "Jared Kushner not dumb as a rock, he's devious -- sometimes he overstates and overestimates his own savvy and ability to things but he's not an idiot."
"And I think one of the things we will discover this period of time in the transition is not just a fateful time but a lot of rotten stuff took place," he added.