Leaders downplay whether Trump can destroy the U.S. — and ignore he's already done a lot

Political, congressional and judicial leaders think that Donald Trump may try to overthrow the United States in 2025, but they're downplaying the seriousness that it can happen.

A report from "The Messenger" interviewed "more than 20 people ... from across the political spectrum, including Democratic and GOP lawmakers, former senior DOJ leaders, Trump critics and the former president’s first-term lawyers, aides and advisors." Each was asked about the Heritage Foundation's Project 2025, which would make good on Trump's past efforts to fire anyone working in the government who doesn't support him. Each doesn't anticipate Trump will be able to accomplish his task of putting his foes in prison and making up the government his own personal fiefdom.

“Those Article III judges will come out ready to filet you if they think you’re in there on behalf of the president of the United States in a criminal case directed by Trump,” a former senior DOJ official told the site. “That’s why I say the easy part is killing cases. It's one thing to tell a court the president directs us to pardon him. It’s another thing to say we didn't have any real good evidence, but we did X, Y and Z.”

But that's precisely what Trump said he intends to do: He has promised to pardon anyone associated with the Jan. 6 attacks.

In the case of former FBI Director James Comey and Deputy FBI Director Andrew McCabe, the men fell under rare audits from the IRS that were extremely invasive. Nothing was found, but it was something that former Trump chief of staff, Gen. John Kelly, said Trump sought as a means of vengeance. He did not confirm that's what the men faced and that the audits were dictated by Trump, however.

Under federal law, it's illegal for nearly anyone in the executive branch to dictate an IRS audit of a specific person's taxes. Comey wanted to know whether he was a target of Trump's. In 2022, American Oversight sued the IRS, asking for documents related to the audits, but nothing has been revealed yet.

Michael Cohen is another who faced off against Trump's weaponization of the Justice Department and wrote a whole book to that effect. While in prison, Cohen was told he could be released on home confinement, but only if he agreed not to write about Trump or speak to the media. Cohen refused and was sent back to jail until a furious judge let him out, calling the demand unconstitutional. Cohen has fought every day since to obtain government documents proving such an order came from Trump. He's made it clear he thinks Trump will lock him up if he's elected. The government confessed there are 480,000 documents about the matter, and they could only process up to 500 documents per month.

"The Messenger" cited Rudy Giuliani's probe of Joe Biden in Ukraine for prompting Trump's first impeachment. The vote itself was an example of Congress stepping up to take action, the piece explained. What the piece doesn't say, however, is that the Senate Republicans refused to remove Trump for the bribery scheme. In fact, they refused to hear any evidence about the matter at all.

Trump's vengeance campaign went further when he fought against GOP Rep. Tom Emmers (R-MN), who could have become the new Speaker after Kevin McCarthy (R-CA) was kicked out of the post. Emmer voted to certify the election in 2020. Emmer isn't the only Republican. Trump went after any member of Congress who supported the House Select Committee investigating the 2020 election, such as Reps. Liz Cheney (R-WY) and Adam Kinzinger (R-IL). Both were opposed in primaries by Trump-supported challengers. Others faced similar challenges, losing in primaries while trying to lay low.

Trump allies are already plotting, the piece cited.

"I’d strongly advise President Biden to pardon himself and his family because, believe me, they’re next,” said Mike Davis, a far-right fringe candidate Trump might choose as an acting attorney general. “Does anyone really think President Trump is going to turn the other cheek?”

While most presidents have their cabinet confirmed by the U.S. Senate, many were too far right for even Senate Republicans to stand behind in 2016. So, Trump kept some simply as "acting" representatives for the department. A 2022 Congressional Research Service on The Vacancies Act report outlines the laws in place. It was only challenged once.

"The Messenger" thinks that because Trump pledged to "lock up" Hillary Clinton and never did, he's all talk and no action.

“There’s always been a bit of a disconnect between what he says publicly and what he says on the policy side,” a former senior DOJ Trump official told the site. “To his credit at the time, he kind of got it. Then he felt he got screwed, and now he’s on the warpath.”

“The one norm that has stood the test of time that separates us from other countries in terms of interactions of the president and Department of Justice is that the president should not direct prosecutions,” a former senior Trump White House official told the site while requesting anonymity.

The one thing that stopped that from unfolding is having attorneys general in the DOJ that stopped it from moving forward. While acting AG, Matthew Whitaker seemed more willing to cater to Trump's whims. He claimed that Trump never personally directed him to go after Cohen, for example. As those in Trump's orbit have explained over the years, Trump knows better than to ask directly. He operates like a mob boss, with the perfect implication to clarify what he wants without saying it.

While "The Messenger" focuses on whether he can or cannot make good on his threats, others are working to put safeguards in place and actively trying to stop it.

Read the full piece here.