Correction: A previous version of this story inaccurately called Walt Nauta a co-conspirator. Neither Nauta nor Donald Trump have been found guilty of the allegations against them.
Former Donald Trump lawyer Michael Cohen appeared on MSNBC Monday as part of the conversation about the former president's legal problems and his knack for throwing his lawyers under the bus.
In a previous conversation, host Chis Hayes said that he thought Trump believed there was some kind of magical power that lawyers possessed akin to a D&D protection cloak. Cohen didn't agree.
"I don't think he sees it that way. I see it more as, he doesn't care who he throws under the bus — right? And as long as it's not him that's going to reap the repercussions, he doesn't particularly care," explained Cohen.
"But he wants other people to do the stuff?" Hayes asked.
"Yes," Cohen agreed. "And if it's coming from a lawyer, therefore, it is okay. It is better for him, because he always has the 'out' that the lawyers should have known. 'That's why I have him. He's my lawyer. He should have told me.' That's why it's plausible deniability."
Hayes recalled lawyer Evan Corcoran's dilemma of trying to protect himself and ultimately asking Christinia Bobb to be willing to put her name on the affidavit claiming there are no documents at Mar-a-Lago.
Cohen recalled his House Oversight Committee hearing in which he explained that there was so much of his time with Trump that he can recognize what others are doing trying to save themselves or curry favor with Trump in hopes he'll defend them. It won't work, he explained.
"The difference, though, when I was representing him and taking care of him as his fixer, as they like to call me, he was just my myopic, real estate, New York-Florida developer. He wasn't the president of the United States of America. So, who really cared other than a handful of people that he was screwing over on contracts and so on, banks, etc. What business was that of anybody else's? It wasn't. Now, as president of the United States, every single thing that he said becomes relevant to the world. And the crazy thing is even though he's not president right now, he is still commanding more air time than the current president, than the Biden administration."
Hayes said that if Biden was indicted, they'd also probably be talking about him. But that's the kind of manipulation Trump has been so good at, Cohen explained. Cable news networks followed Trump's plane as it landed and the motorcade drove through traffic.
"Why are we giving him so much oxygen to breathe? I just say, let it go," said Cohen. "I don't think tomorrow's gonna be as big a deal as everyone is making in Florida. It certainly wasn't a big deal in New York. There was more press than there were people. And I don't think that the Oath Keepers, or you know, the other groups are gonna be out there, you know, doing anything, protesting. Most of them are in prison right now, anyway. And what happened to the help that Donald promised them? Everyone that had done things to benefit Donald has gotten left in the dust."
That's when he delivered his own personal advice to Walt Nauta, Trump's valet.
"Okay, so Walt Nauta will get thrown under the bus. There is no doubt about this one. And if there is anything that I can do, I would look straight into the camera, and I'll say, 'Walt, I know you are watching. Run. Run as fast as you can, my friend. And as a former military guy, I know you know how to run quickly. Run as quickly as you can because Donald Trump will throw you under the bus, faster than you could possibly imagine. And he won't throw you under the bus simply just to save himself, he will just throw you under the bus, simply because he can. And because he thinks it will provide him with some form of benefit.'"
See the full conversation below or at the link here.
Michael Cohen delivers a personal message to Trump’s personal valet and co-conspiratoryoutu.be
