A panel discussion on the Trump-baby blimp evolved into a nuanced discussion by a former ghost writer for President Donald Trump about using satire and parody to drive leaders into insanity.
MSNBC host Ari Melber said that any person who looks up at the sky "and you happen to see your likeness in a giant diaper-clad baby, it will have an effect on you."
Art of the Deal co-author Tony Schwartz noted that he spent time with Trump while his children were small and that the father of five couldn't possibly care about babies.
Schwartz, who served as an advisor for Hillary Clinton during the debate, explained that he doesn't care about the giant blimp that will fly over London this week. "I mean, who cares?" he asked
"A lot of people have seen him as a way to troll him," Melber explained. "There was a long running debate -- we talked about this before on the show -- how do you deal with someone that dominates attention in a juvenile way."
Schwartz said that he isn't significantly against it, he merely feels it is irrelevant and won't do anything.
"And the idea of getting under his skin is not, it's not significant," he continued. "Who cares if we get under his skin? What we want to do is get under his presidency and lift him out of it. You know, I have been thinking a lot lately about the fact that he has changed this debate around him and terms. It's always being dragged down to the lowest common denominator. I don't think those who oppose him don't win by playing at his level."
He explained that from his perspective what was at stake, particularly after Wednesday's NATO meeting, is the American democracy.
"Who it is we want to be represented by?" he asked. "Whatever doubts people have about what this country is, we don't want to be under an authoritarian. Maybe 30 percent of the country actually does. But 70 percent of the country does not want to live under an authoritarian. If we can, for example, what's a good protest? A good protest is to go to the high percentage of young people who don't vote and get them to vote. It's not important who is for Trump. It's important who is against Trump, that they show up at the polls and actually register that."
Watch the full discussion below: