In a segment on CNN's "New Day," a discussion on the explosive revelation about Rudy Giuliani's relationship to two men who were taken into custody for campaign finance violations turned to whether Donald Trump's lawyer was using them to get dirt on former Joe Biden to whether they were using the former New York mayor.
Speaking with hosts John Berman and Alisyn Camerota, CNN regular said John Avlon bluntly stated: "Who has been using who?"
Showing a video clip of Giuliani chatting with the two men, Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman, host Berman said, "We can see rudy Giuliani's known these guys for a while. We don't know when this picture is from, but he's been paling around with them in a big way for a couple of years. They were the ones that he has been using in Ukraine to try to dig up dirt on Biden."
"That's right," Avlon replied. "I think one of the open questions is who's been using who. But Rudy has fallen in with this crew for the last several years."
"There's a tragic quality to all of this as often happens with Rudy," he continued. "These two guys have insinuated themselves into his life and have apparently been prime drivers of this Ukrainian expedition which Trump has bought into; apparently the president of the United States has bought into, Rudy has bought into, and it's unclear, though, whose bidding they are doing."