Cracks emerged in Donald Trump's Republican stonewall when Sen. Susan Collins (R-ME) announced she was working with a "small group" of GOP senators who want to allow witnesses to testify during the president's impeachment trial in the U.S. Senate.
For analysis, MSNBC anchor Ari Melber interviewed New York Times columnist Michelle Goldberg on Friday.
"And Michelle, the other thing I want to ask you about is the way that Donald Trump's defenders double-down on everything doesn't always work," Melber noted. "It may enrage, and it may get attention, but this is a process whereby whether you lose a few Senate votes can change, as we have discussed with who testified, and so I wonder if you think just as we saw in Iran, some of that didn't work, and Republican senators pushed back, we're seeing that with Collins here."
The host wondered if the approach taken by Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) had backfired.
"Do you think that some of Trump's defenders, including Mr. Graham here, may have actually pushed Collins in the other direction?" Melber asked.
Goldberg said that three years into the Trump administration, she was no longer, "expecting any kind of decency or consistency from any Republicans. Really, I'm pleasantly surprised that Collins said she's going to fight for witnesses, and a small group is all you need, given the makeup of the Senate. I'm not counting on it."
She explained the political implications for Republicans not allowing a fair trial.
"I do think that at the very least, this cover-up will be televised, right, the process of the cover-up," Goldberg said.
"The arguments against letting the country hear from, you know, hear from John Bolton and hear from Mick Mulvaney -- hear from Rudy Giuliani, for that matter, who seems to want to testify," she explained.
"You know, at least that will be public at the very, very least, right, so that the country can hear about what this president doesn't want them to hear," Goldberg concluded.