The new Roger Stone tape, in which the longtime GOP operative and Donald Trump ally makes clear he knew Trump lost the 2020 election and dismissed the January 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol as "childish" and "amateurish," adds a new level of legal problems to the former president's defense, argued former acting solicitor general Neal Katyal on MSNBC's "The Beat" Monday.
"'Change of plans, let's get out of town,'" said anchor Ari Melber, echoing Stone on the clip. "What do you see in both that new clip we have, as well as what we aired tonight in the Stone case?"
"So Ari, when you're planning a coup, it's usually not the best idea to have a camera crew around recording it," said Katyal addressing those involved in the two criminal cases against Trump.
He went on to explain: "This footage is likely going to spell real trouble for Roger Stone and as well, importantly, for Donald Trump, and it starts with the prior footage going all the way back to the beginning of November that you've already shown. But this clip that you just showed on Jan. 6th, Roger Stone saying he did nothing wrong. I mean, for a guy who claims to be doing nothing wrong, he certainly hasn't acted like someone with nothing to hide."
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Katyal explained that innocent people don't generally seek preemptive pardons.
"I live in D.C., and happened to be in town with the events of Jan. 6th happened, at no point did I think, 'Oh, I better get out of town and pack my bags and call up the president and seek a pardon,'" he said. "Those are not the actions of a guy who genuinely believes he did nothing wrong."
"What do you see in the way that he has navigated and it got him in trouble in the Mueller probe as well," said Melber. "He hypes, he does bluster, unlike, as you say, some more, perhaps, career potential criminals. There's a propaganda and spin element to it, and yet, on the other hand, he is, we learned, talking to insiders about the elector plot. He is consorting with some of the militias, so there's a hype to it, and then there also appears to be a there there."
"I wouldn't say the hype is any sort of excuse," said Melber. "He tried that hype last time around. Remember, Roger Stone is a convicted seven-time felon, he was convicted of witness tampering, obstruction of a congressional investigation, five different counts of false statements to Congress. The jury took just seven hours to convict him, Ari. Even with his hype defense. And the only reason Stone isn't in jail is because Donald Trump pardoned him. And so, you know, I think the kind of things that he was directing, he is kind of a bridge between the 'coupers,' the people who are actually invading the Capitol, and the coup plotters and the inner circle of the White House."
"You know, just to take one example, in the footage you showed last week, about two days before the election, Roger Stone has a set play to go up to say there's doubt about the election, and now the phony lawyers have to come in and say that the state legislators can appoint electors themselves, which is a cockamamie theory that I just argued to the Supreme Court and was resoundingly rejected 6-2," Katyal said. "But this is a guy who's saying on November 2nd, before the election, F the voting, let's get right to the violence, or we'll have to start smashing pumpkins if you know what I mean. That's a direct quote and also an insult to a great band. Someone advising the president to say, let's stoke the violence. It's baffling."
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