Speaking to Michael Cohen on his "Mea Culpa" podcast, former federal prosecutor Harry Litman made some guesses about who he thinks will be among the first to flip on Donald Trump in Fulton County's racketeering case.
The conversation was about Trump's documents scandal, but also dipped into the Georgia election case. Shared between the four criminal cases and two civil that Trump is involved in are several dozen witnesses and co-defendants.
"Many of these co-defendants will begin to start to point fingers at one another, and ultimately point the finger, especially the middle finger, at Trump himself," said Cohen introducing the segment.
POLL: Should Trump be allowed to run for office?
Litman began with Trump lawyer Jenna Ellis, in large part because there has already been speculation about her frustrations over being among the 19 alleged co-conspirators in Georgia.
"She has been pretty vocal," said Litman.
In a post on X, the site formerly known as Twitter, Ellis wrote on September 4: "DeSantis said he would consider pardons on a case by case basis," when it comes to the Jan. 6 attacks and 2020 election overthrow attempts.
"Trump could have issued a blanket pardon before he left office, with certain requisite conditions to be ascertained later on a case-by-case basis (such as non-violent individuals for instance, to foreclose pardoning anyone in your example). Why didn't he?" she asked.
"Look at people who are going to have expensive trials," Litman suggested. "Whom Trump won't pay for. So, think about — Jenna Ellis has been pretty vocal, saying, you know, he's not paying for me. Even a guy like [Rudy] Giuliani, you know, who's now really looking harsh at it. It's their own personal calculations."
Then there's former Chief of Staff Mark Meadows.
"I think he's a guy who, you know, does not want to be going to Georgia State Prison," quipped Litman. "So, I see — you sort of serve up the people who feel like they just were trying to give advice. They weren't total Trumpies like [Ken] Chesbro."
Other than Ellis, Giuliani and Meadows, Litman said that the lower-level people in the conspiracy, like the fake electors, are among the group who might give evidence against Trump.
They "are saying already yeah we did it because —not just the Trump team, you know, but the president of the United States told us to do it," Litman closed. "They're very strong candidates to turn state's evidence and testify against him in particular."
