Former White House ethics czar and impeachment lawyer Norm Eisen spoke with Michael Cohen on this week's "Mea Culpa" podcast about the testimony of Pat Cipollone from last Friday.
The former White House counsel to Donald Trump appeared before the House Select Committee investigating the Jan. 6 attack on Congress and attempt to overthrow the election.
The testimony comes after top White House aide to Mark Meadows, Cassidy Hutchinson, gave compelling testimony about discussions in the lead-up to the Jan. 6 attack. Eisen explained that there were many things Cipollone could corroborate that Hutchinson revealed.
Eisen explained that he got to know Cipollone well while opposing him in one of the impeachment trials of the former president.
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"You know, he was a fierce Trump attack dog," said Eisen. "He got up there in the impeachment, unlike when you appeared in Congress, Pat lied and lied in the impeachment to defend Trump."
He went on to predict that Cipollone would confirm what Hutchinson testified in three areas:
"No. 1, Trump's murderous intent," Eisen began. "I don't think murder is too strong a word for what was in Trump's mind and heart. You know, Michael, we've heard so much about how tough it is to prove Trump's intent. Baloney! Cassidy Hutchinson is only the latest step forward in proving that the guy knew — look at her testimony! And Cipollone is going to advance this. He will corroborate that Trump knew this mob was armed and dangerous. That Trump was warned not to march for that reason. But he wanted to march anyhow, aware of the risk of violence."
He also anticipated that Cipollone would corroborate the conversation that Hutchinson revealed between him and former chief of staff Mark Meadows that she witnessed. The men were trying to come up with something that could be done to help protect the Capitol as they chanted "hang Mike Pence." Meadows made it clear that Trump agreed with the mob, however.
Another thing he said that he anticipated is that Cipollone would reveal that he warned Hutchinson that if Trump marched to the Capitol that "they would be charged with every crime in the book."
Finally, he explained, Cipollone could corroborate Trump's efforts to take over the Justice Department using Jeffrey Clark.
Listen to the full podcast here for Apple or Spotify.
