Giuliani's butt-dialing mishap provides the 'smoking gun' that leads to Trump: ex-prosecutor
Donald Trump -- shown here with new attorney Rudy Giuliani -- had previously denied all knowledge of the payment to Stormy Daniels, before admitting last week that his personal lawyer Michael Cohen struck a "deal" with the porn star on his behalf. (AFP / Don EMMERT)

Former federal prosecutor Mimi Rocah walked through all of the ways that the president's personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, is in more trouble than he might think.


Former acting national security adviser Charles Kupperman refused to give a deposition to Republican and Democratic members of the Intelligence Committee Monday. MSNBC host Ayman Mohyeldin asked Rocah if it was time for Democrats to begin going to court to demand cooperation.

"I think the Democrats are in a very good position," she explained. "They already have several, what I would consider as a former prosecutor, several smoking guns. The transcript itself — the summary is incriminating -- the summary of the call. I think, obviously, Bill Taylor's testimony; it sounds like [Gordon] Sondland -- he too saw, essentially, a quid pro quo. That's what his lawyer is trying to say anyway."

But a key component of the case, Rocah said, is Giuliani's carelessness.

"We have something from last week now, this recording of Rudy Giuliani talking to someone in an unguarded moment when he did not know anyone was listening," she continued. "He says to the person in the room; we had to force them to do the investigation. He's talking about Ukraine there. And the 'we' is the question but pretty clearly involves Rudy Giuliani. I think that's a real smoking gun that no one is quite talking about it enough. I think that it could draw a straight line from Rudy Giuliani to Trump."

She went on to say that Kupperman and former security adviser John Bolton share the same lawyer. If Bolton is willing to share the information in a book, he should be willing to testify it to Congress, she said.

Watch the clip below: